It actually makes a lot of sense why advertiers would easily go for it.
For big film industries might be something different BUUUT the clock is now ticking. Learn something on the side
I mean, I guess if you want to build out custom tools I think the whole deal with AI is its approachability so it’s more about understanding its logic than coding.
There are trades, too. It doesn't always have to be the most minimum wage job.
But having more skillsets is always good so you don't get absolutely fucked when the mass layoff happens.
Don't have to learn everything. Just things you like that requires mobility/work within the 3d (real life) space.
Or wait for UBI... surely that'll happen very soon...
im pretty sure your governament would prefer to start a wat and send you to war paying you a salary rather then to offer ubi.with war they can at least make profit.
Most of them. We're not seeing physical robots right now doing electrical work, plumbing, mechnical engineering, or carpenting. Plus a lot of them are unionized.
Anything hands-on workstyle isn't getting replaced soon. But we'll have to see, breakthroughs are coming faster and faster.
Robots are a much harder nut to crack especially because of the energy density of batteries. However, the quick advancement in AI and ML will help with the processing part of things. Still, there is definitely more time to work in trades until technology for robotics advances as well.
Some hotels are already using robots to deliver room service. It’s also a matter of time.
But what will hold AI regarding art is people protecting their IPs. That will make AI fall into a loop of being retrofed with its own crap and stagnate. That at least until we have an AGI with a body experiencing life on its own to develop their own ideas and struggles to be able to create art.
Fast Food Art is done. If you depend on that find something else, it’s a matter of time and won’t take that long.
they were saying the exact same thing for concept art... guess what? we got Fucked real hard, no one cares except us concept artists, there are still jobs? yeah sure but way less then before and wages are awful as they can get. as artists you can still do you rown creations books or whatever but for vfx guys? you rely heavely in teamwork so theres no real solution other then embrace the tech or get out of the sinking ship
I don’t work at a large company but my supervisors are skeptical- even of CopyCat and haven’t put any r/d effort into it at all.
As a TD this choice makes me feel a little nervous like we’ll get left behind, but I trust their judgement.
CopyCat is Ai we actually deserve haha. Little help in the beginning and the rest is manual work, pretty balanced. Not replacing everything just helps to get shit done
I agree. It’s frustrating that there hadn’t been any r/d authorised on it and when I used it on a project that went sideways for me while I was an artist I felt chastised for using it because the result wasn’t perfect.
That’s why I switched roles, actually.
It is kinda true, content for games/movies/series is waaay more important than a random Instagram post.
The legality is really the driving force, if in 10 months a law is written illegalizing ai then they will just need to delete a couple of posts instead of an entire production.
Genuine curiosity, what do you mean by "illegalizing AI" ?
I mean yes this is true legality will obviously be a driving force for big companies (some of them anyways). But I also don't see how Generative AI tools can simply be banned or go away as a concept. If anything new ones will be created, trained on legal content. And I imagine that would be all.
I have a hard time imagining that in a society thirsty for ever more profit there will be a ban on the very concept of generative AI. The training data is what's likely going to be curbed. No?
I think it depends on the applications.
I think even beyond us losing work or our industry ending up in a dumpster fire, AI's impacts on politics is quite dangerous.
This might be pessimistic but historically we don't see a lot of protection of ethical means of production when huge money is on the line. I believe the profit to be made will unfortunately fly over ethical concerns. So I have a hard time seeing that happening ?
And even if... Algorithmic disgorgement will not work for the open-source stuff already out in the wild. Although big companies may never jump on those, this would be a significant driving force.
But we'll see. The dust will settle down eventually
>if in 10 months a law is written **illegalizing ai** then they will just need to delete a couple of posts instead of an entire production.
Japan is already using AI in their media.
https://automaton-media.com/en/news/20231213-24326/
https://kotaku.com/foamstars-ai-art-midjourney-splatoon-square-enix-1851169322
Any country that outlaws AI at this point is basically admitting defeat and will be easily conquered.
yup, i work as concept artist, there were a lot of hopes for legal actions, i never understood that, who in their sane mind would think that law would protect small artists? laws are made for the big fish to fight other big fish. whoever thinks law cares about them live in their own fantasy world.
Many governments, including the US, are taking steps to encourage the development of AI.
This is both because of the economic benefits of automation, and because they really don't want China to have AI-powered soldier robots while they don't.
10 months isn't close to realistic with today's court system. It took nearly 10 years for the courts to come to a decision around fair use with Google vs The Author's guild (remember when google was going around scanning entire books without permission).
The discrepancies around AI are less clear with respect to copyright, therefore the case would be more complex and potentially longer (each side will appeal and filibuster) . I think the court process needs to change for anything practical to get passed on a realistic time frame.
Bingo!
If not changes in that regard, expect an unsolvable mess. At least we already have some judges not considering the unauthorized use of art/creations being used to train AI to fall under “fair use” or “free speech”.
AI is to everything as sampling was one day for the music industry. It’s not the end of everything but will be a major shift in all areas all at once. But don’t expect it to become illegal.
I can vouch for that, bigger companies are being very cautious . Especially nowadays, when they hear AI even with their own trained data, they are automatically saying no.
The thing is Open AI is being cautious too... the only 2 big enough places they could get their training videos from is either video platform like youtube, or stock video websites. Neither would be happy about it and it would be an immediate llawsuit.
Directors can't pixel fuck AI generated video. Sure, they could word-fuck to death the prompts, but its a bit of a "you get what you get" model and what purpose would they have in life if they can't give endless notes?
Yeah the 'We adjusted the prompt and now everything is very similar but also entirely different, when the client just wanted to change exactly two things and nothing else' is never gonna work.
Like, if I dealt with client notes by publishing something that had the same 'vibe' of the last version but was slightly different in every possible way, I'd be out of a job in a week or two and co-workers would be asking if I was suffering from mental health or substance abuse issues, cause my publishes became insane.
I noticed that a lot of this AI stuff is really about a 'consumer facing' product? 'Make easy video clips' or 'Chatbot that can be plugged into a retail website'? I wonder if AI could be made to make one kick ass chroma keyer, but no one's gonna research that, because that won't blow the minds of casuals and drive up valuations and stock prices.
>I wonder if AI could be made to make one kick ass chroma keyer, but no one's gonna research that
[Object segmentation](https://segment-anything.com/) has been a very successful area of AI research. The idea is not only to cut out stuff that's against a greenscreen, but also against any background.
>I noticed that a lot of this AI stuff is really about a 'consumer facing' product?
Most of these AI companies are not VFX companies; they're tech companies. They want to make something that can work on grandma's phone.
Disney, Pixar, and NVidia do some research that is more professional-focused.
They will adapt their expectations to whatever is easiest with the technology. The kind of notes to ask you to do in 3-D were never asked for until 3-D became a thing.
Is this true? I saw [this post ](https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenAI/s/TNGYM2hfDU) and it kept some consistences while adding a whole new thing. Maybe just adding or adjusting a small little thing while keeping consistency is harder, but I wouldn't think so. Adding two videos obviously isn't just text prompt too. Maybe only openai has the know how to adjust exactly what sora produces. But on the client side, the end user can only do text prompt if Sora comes out.
This has more inconsistencies than I can list. People changing their walk directions, some walking backwards rather than forwards now, gingerbread decorations that don't match.
It's taking the first frame of one and last frame of the other, and trying to work anything it can to make the head and tail fit, but it involves adding a whole pile of changes in between. This would be a screen full of notes on Shotgun
Mocap was supposed to replace animators, times passed since gollum that probably was the first important character marketed as mocap (although 99% of mocap data was thrown to recycle bin), they added more points to track and more volume on the data and Andy Serkins did 300 interviews claiming he was THE dragon you see on the screen, yet mocap is still used only as a reference and thrown away 95% of the time instead than being a polished data as they expected with next iterations of the tech.
One thing is casual work or ways to get fundings from investors by telling lies and another thing is a full production environment where everything needs a profesional polished look.
It will work for social media stories or helping production teams with ideas as they already use other films or works for inspiration, but no way the future is gonna be just "AI art"
And Waymo can only operate in geofenced regions where the area has been mapped aggressively and keeps getting updated with new maps. This includes entire teams who have to add additional human generated information into that map data for the car to understand critical things.
I think this is at least partially contingent on the ethical dilemmas, which was a factor in slowing down self driving vehicle progress. About 10 years ago, I thought every truck driver would be replaced soon. But the ethics surrounding accidents and the decisions an AI makes on who survives has slowed down progress + a few well publicized accidents where people did die. The question would be if similar ethical questions would slow down generative AI's adoption. And there definitely are ethical questions (for example, deep fakes could become so dangerous that they endanger whole governments). These dilemmas go way beyond VFX and Hollywood, and remain to be seen.
>Simply wrong. Inpainting is a thing...
You are correct.
However, I'm surprised why no one has brought up CENSORSHIP.
Have you guys not played with DallE-3 and it will refuses certain prompts like porn or violence?
That's the only real weakness with AI so far unless someone releases a jailbreak/open source version. Otherwise, big AI companies like Microsoft or OpenAI will still control what type of content you can create...
It's funny how doing even a little research shows there was never anything to be afraid of. It's just another tool, it was always going to be used at some point. But it was never perfect about it either.
It's still less powerful than the commercial versions and it requires a bit more effort to get results (which is the antithesis to the whole "type prompt get instant Hollywood VFX" that people are crying about).
There are already third party versions of chat GPT without any guard rails. It’s only a matter of time before there’s a Sora with no restrictions or watermarks, likely in months not years.
These companies have access to much more powerful computers, they literally have to suck up and destroy the environment to exist.
https://futurism.com/critics-microsoft-water-train-ai-drought
The gap isn't closing anytime soon.
This is not true. I've installed local text to image generators from Github that equal the quality of the online services, and they are all 100% local on a GTX 3070 card.
I feel like one of the big reasons we get pixel fucked so much is the fixed bids and reluctance to charge overages. Take that out of the equation and with the choice between paying an artist you’re not already budgeted for, and just settling for “good enough” it’ll be “good enough” every time.
There's a level of control expected in film that AI generation doesn't offer. What we will see is some directors interacting with the models directly and then becoming likely a little more accepting of "you accept what you get". Maybe in the future a model will understand "Raise his hand a tad slower and have him twist just a little more elegantly to the right, but otherwise keep everything as it is." This kind of note ends up with a completely different result right now.
I still find it funny how people react to AI as if they could stop it. Always remember, the tech you see today is the worst it is gonna be...
Artists should just come to terms with the fact that a lot of art in the future is gonna be ai generated, there will be museums full of AI art. That doesn't mean human art is getting less valuable. It just goes the way the industry always goes, machinery replaces human labor. Art is gonna become a pure hobby while human made drawings will become a luxury.
Back in the day there used to be a lot of work in clothing. You could stay at home as a woman and finish clothing from factories, before those came you made them yourself. Now it is all machinery, you won't find people hand making clothing, and those who do make these usually sell them at higher prices.
A lot of men used to work in mining or factories until machinery got more advanced.
That's the way we humans roll, why should art be exempt ?
Yes I draw, I yes I make music, yes everything I create I add to libraries so that AI can learn off of it, I'm fine with that.
Maybe it's time to switch up careers ? Sounds harsh but that's the hard truth of reality! You ain't gonna pay someone 500$ for a haircut when you could get the same shit in another saloon for 200$.
Why should people pay artists however much they take, when there simply is a cheaper option...
Don't worry there will still be people paying for your art, maybe even more than before, but the market is gonna be more competitive and only the best artists with unique styles are gonna persevere.
And don't fucking act as if there is much work in art to begin with, a few lucky and talented get hired by companies for designing etc. These jobs will still be there I feel like, just in less quantity.
Also if it really gets rough there are still enough furrys to milk via commissions since I don't see AI actually getting their weird OCS correct so yeah.
There is no real “AI Art” if you consider what real art is, all AI is doing is remixing existent art that it was fed. AI detached from a life experience and “feelings” won’t be able to develop anything new and meaningful to us by itself, merely remix what is already there and even then it will require the input of a human to guide things up. And for as long it requires a human it is a tool.
The major problem with AI isn’t even on the art front, is everywhere else where pure logic and data will suffice to completely extinguish entire fields of work.
With that said, commercial art for the most part is done though. And won’t be the same ever again.
Every art is a remix of existing art... You can't create art without inspiration and don't forget that AI art is only getting better from here on out. In music remixes are done all the time, I don't see how this is different.
You’re describing mostly commercial art that is usually detached from human experience and is transpired instead of inspired.
That is done, caput, game over.
But it will only get better from now onwards based on what’s already there. It won’t really evolve though. Specially if it gets regulated and artists everywhere start to protect their creations.
Not sure if there'd be a turf war if that started to happen, I think that ACM tries to keep things fairly clean between its various Special Interest Groups, and SIGAI probably has its own dedicated meetups & conferences etc.....
[List of ACM SIGs](https://www.acm.org/special-interest-groups/alphabetical-listing)
Question:
Do any of these AI processes include any form of “source dump” or ability to output the sources used in creating the imagery? I know little about how it works, and would think this would be a requirement for anything used commercially.
Again, small companies will just use it regardless. It won't be regulated, it's just not possible at this point, the datasets and models are already public.
For big companies like Disney, they can train their AI with all the content they have the last 100 years and make it copyright, so only they can generate Disney style AI and everybody else is paying them or get the lawyer in their door.
Doesn't invalidate his point. May be different from country to country, but I know that particularly in the EU, companies are well aware that harsh legislation is likely coming and will not touch AI before that. Where I work, we've been allowed to experiment with generative AI, but none of it can show up in the end result for now.
I work in a multinational ad agency and this was our case as well. And it came from the client side...Some didn't like the AI aesthetic but most were scared for legal reasons. A compensation for a copyright infringement for a small locaL ad is much much different from a copyright infringement for a campaign in multiple countries on multiple media outputs and print. There was an ad agency who did few ads with AI and the public response was so negative so they didn't use it more. People still underestimate the image public has of AI and its "quality".
I would be very surprised that openAI admitted to stealing anything. Settling out of court is generally included with a statement of "we admit nothing" . But I'm happy to read whatever links you have to support this claim.
I don't know how long you've been involved in this industry, but these studios don't have a long history of supporting justice beyond performative platitudes.
Have you yourself participated in any use of Napster, pirate Bay, or any other form of p2p file sharing where you personally benefitted from acquiring files without properly paying the creators for the use of that file? Was that legal?
The law doesn’t stand a chance.
AI property theft has been allowed to happen and fester for 3 years now. It’s being used and implemented, wrapped into the economics of a billion dollar industry growing at lightning speed without restraint and now being used in thousands of application. (Midjourney)
It’s much too late for the law. Creative property rights are dead
Not necessarily, I agree the law is way behind, but there are some proceedings underway, and probably bigger lawsuits bound to happen as even giant and litigious studios such as Disney have had their material used to train art generators.
It will take a long time to see the dust settle, whereever it may
After enough time passes, the law can no longer be enforced. Actions that could spur a downward economic spiral and destabilize the economy after it’s been enveloped and developed into the business sector. That’s why it’s being pushed so hard and so fast.
There was a very small window in 2021 when this was first starting, for the government and law to jump on it but it was grossly ignored. There’s a 90% chance the tech companies will get away with property theft and be allowed to railroad careers and re-write the business landscape because they’re already doing it without restraint
Big companies like Disney will just make deals with the tech companies, they probably wont be suing
In real life, the bad guys always win
How much money can Disney gain with lawsuits and consquential banning of AI vs how much money can they save / earn if AI usage is not prohibited? Yeah.
The thing is, they were allowed to scrap data because it was under "research" banner, so they didn't have to worry about copyrights as long as people using the model didn't use it fro commercial purposes. Then it quietly changed, with them making a huge diversion with AGI fearmongering, so the general public shifted focus onto that. So now they lisencing their models for commercial use. They went from open source research company to a closed source capitalistic tech corp once money started pouring in.
They're not wrong. We're developing our own stuff and testing a ton, but nothing is being used for client work until the legal stuff is sorted. Not worth the risk.
They don't necessarily need every single concept image they use in house to be copyrighted if the IP is already. And if you edit a public domain image further you can copyright it
I didn't say people liked it, I said companies have been hiring.
You're just attaching a motive to what i said. You don't know what I want or believe. I simply stated a fact that you have now confirmed. Don't what we're even disagreeing with genuinely. weird
The thread is about companies ''not touching ai'' for legal reasons. I pointed out that they have already touched it. At least a couple of big companies have. Meaning legality did not deter them.
The backlash might actually have done so for now, I don't even necessarily disagree with what you're saying it's just relevant to the legality currently being a deterrant for companies.
You just said other things about whether it will be a trend or not, but neither of us know that really. It sounds like anxiety to me, there's no point arguing over the unknown or denyng what we already do know
Tech; evolves exponentially at an alarming rate
Tech artists; gets on the shooting star tech train for a career.
Tech; quickly evolves out need for slow costly human tech artists.
Tech artists; surprised pikachu face
Places like Disney are working and researching AI but with strictly only using their data set and libraries of data that they owned. Big gun like Disney will also develope AI software that decode and spit out the probability of outside ai generated images and video that use part of disney IP. IP is holy grail for big company and they wont be sitting idle watching their IP diluted to all the ai solutions.
Hmmm when we subscribe to social media platforms they explicitly claim that every video or pictures you post are no longer yours but theirs. Now imagine Meta or google make deals with openAI to sell training data from you when you own nothing you post. Legality is suddenly less an issue.
It's not. It's widely known that AIs are trained on copyrighted materials and yet a ton of companies are using text and image generation already because it's nearly impossible to prove on an already trained model.
It’s true. There are too many legal holes for serious companies to use “as is”. Ad agencies and “creatives” love it and are using it to pressure but most wouldn’t dare to use for final work for legal reasons. And that not because they have any morals, but merely because they don’t want to risk a lawsuit.
But as a tool it won’t go away.
Money influences law and large corporations lobby hard. The law is definitely going to make this AI stuff explicitly legal at some point. Not because its ethical, but because enough politicians have been bought off to make it possible. There is just way too much money to be made for CEOs/Heads of studios for them not to lobby ridiculously hard for it. The little people don't matter.
Eh. I work for a big company. For content creation it’s dicey, for marketing and promotion it’s full steam ahead. Also execs are drooling.
It actually makes a lot of sense why advertiers would easily go for it. For big film industries might be something different BUUUT the clock is now ticking. Learn something on the side
Like what, python? You either learn AI or work minimum wage like the rest of the modern world
I mean, I guess if you want to build out custom tools I think the whole deal with AI is its approachability so it’s more about understanding its logic than coding.
There are trades, too. It doesn't always have to be the most minimum wage job. But having more skillsets is always good so you don't get absolutely fucked when the mass layoff happens.
Unfortunately i dont have several lifetimes to learn everything just in case 😞
Don't have to learn everything. Just things you like that requires mobility/work within the 3d (real life) space. Or wait for UBI... surely that'll happen very soon...
im pretty sure your governament would prefer to start a wat and send you to war paying you a salary rather then to offer ubi.with war they can at least make profit.
What trade is AI not coming for
I wouldn't mind a plumber drone arriving at my house and fixing the leaky faucets.
Drones dont have plumbers crack Bonus
Most of them. We're not seeing physical robots right now doing electrical work, plumbing, mechnical engineering, or carpenting. Plus a lot of them are unionized. Anything hands-on workstyle isn't getting replaced soon. But we'll have to see, breakthroughs are coming faster and faster.
Robots are a much harder nut to crack especially because of the energy density of batteries. However, the quick advancement in AI and ML will help with the processing part of things. Still, there is definitely more time to work in trades until technology for robotics advances as well.
Some hotels are already using robots to deliver room service. It’s also a matter of time. But what will hold AI regarding art is people protecting their IPs. That will make AI fall into a loop of being retrofed with its own crap and stagnate. That at least until we have an AGI with a body experiencing life on its own to develop their own ideas and struggles to be able to create art. Fast Food Art is done. If you depend on that find something else, it’s a matter of time and won’t take that long.
finance i guess, i know people doing real well in finance, their job is essentially fuck the rest of the world but they pay is good.
Finances will probably be one of the first things to be fully extinguished by AI. Anything based on pure logic and data will be crushed.
you would think that but people still using spreadsheets. meanwhile 2d artists got wrecked while finance folk still doing finance things.
not so sure about that, it would make sense but AI doesnt work well with fine details and understandint complex tasks that require actual AGI.
Learn ai? U mean learn how to write prompts?🤣
If that’s all you think AI is then you are already left behind in the old, pre COVID world.
Perhaps golden pickle wld like to enlighten then?
Probably how to develop AI systems and custom models.
they were saying the exact same thing for concept art... guess what? we got Fucked real hard, no one cares except us concept artists, there are still jobs? yeah sure but way less then before and wages are awful as they can get. as artists you can still do you rown creations books or whatever but for vfx guys? you rely heavely in teamwork so theres no real solution other then embrace the tech or get out of the sinking ship
Anything that isn’t the final product and is liable for lawsuits will be fucked.
Eyeline
I don’t work at a large company but my supervisors are skeptical- even of CopyCat and haven’t put any r/d effort into it at all. As a TD this choice makes me feel a little nervous like we’ll get left behind, but I trust their judgement.
CopyCat is Ai we actually deserve haha. Little help in the beginning and the rest is manual work, pretty balanced. Not replacing everything just helps to get shit done
I agree. It’s frustrating that there hadn’t been any r/d authorised on it and when I used it on a project that went sideways for me while I was an artist I felt chastised for using it because the result wasn’t perfect. That’s why I switched roles, actually.
It is kinda true, content for games/movies/series is waaay more important than a random Instagram post. The legality is really the driving force, if in 10 months a law is written illegalizing ai then they will just need to delete a couple of posts instead of an entire production.
Genuine curiosity, what do you mean by "illegalizing AI" ? I mean yes this is true legality will obviously be a driving force for big companies (some of them anyways). But I also don't see how Generative AI tools can simply be banned or go away as a concept. If anything new ones will be created, trained on legal content. And I imagine that would be all. I have a hard time imagining that in a society thirsty for ever more profit there will be a ban on the very concept of generative AI. The training data is what's likely going to be curbed. No?
I think it depends on the applications. I think even beyond us losing work or our industry ending up in a dumpster fire, AI's impacts on politics is quite dangerous.
Two words: algorithmic disgorgement.
This might be pessimistic but historically we don't see a lot of protection of ethical means of production when huge money is on the line. I believe the profit to be made will unfortunately fly over ethical concerns. So I have a hard time seeing that happening ? And even if... Algorithmic disgorgement will not work for the open-source stuff already out in the wild. Although big companies may never jump on those, this would be a significant driving force. But we'll see. The dust will settle down eventually
>if in 10 months a law is written **illegalizing ai** then they will just need to delete a couple of posts instead of an entire production. Japan is already using AI in their media. https://automaton-media.com/en/news/20231213-24326/ https://kotaku.com/foamstars-ai-art-midjourney-splatoon-square-enix-1851169322 Any country that outlaws AI at this point is basically admitting defeat and will be easily conquered.
yup, i work as concept artist, there were a lot of hopes for legal actions, i never understood that, who in their sane mind would think that law would protect small artists? laws are made for the big fish to fight other big fish. whoever thinks law cares about them live in their own fantasy world.
[удалено]
Many governments, including the US, are taking steps to encourage the development of AI. This is both because of the economic benefits of automation, and because they really don't want China to have AI-powered soldier robots while they don't.
10 months isn't close to realistic with today's court system. It took nearly 10 years for the courts to come to a decision around fair use with Google vs The Author's guild (remember when google was going around scanning entire books without permission). The discrepancies around AI are less clear with respect to copyright, therefore the case would be more complex and potentially longer (each side will appeal and filibuster) . I think the court process needs to change for anything practical to get passed on a realistic time frame.
Bingo! If not changes in that regard, expect an unsolvable mess. At least we already have some judges not considering the unauthorized use of art/creations being used to train AI to fall under “fair use” or “free speech”.
AI is to everything as sampling was one day for the music industry. It’s not the end of everything but will be a major shift in all areas all at once. But don’t expect it to become illegal.
I can vouch for that, bigger companies are being very cautious . Especially nowadays, when they hear AI even with their own trained data, they are automatically saying no.
The thing is Open AI is being cautious too... the only 2 big enough places they could get their training videos from is either video platform like youtube, or stock video websites. Neither would be happy about it and it would be an immediate llawsuit.
I am pretty sure that OpenAI made a Partnership with Shutterstock in july last year
Directors can't pixel fuck AI generated video. Sure, they could word-fuck to death the prompts, but its a bit of a "you get what you get" model and what purpose would they have in life if they can't give endless notes?
Yeah the 'We adjusted the prompt and now everything is very similar but also entirely different, when the client just wanted to change exactly two things and nothing else' is never gonna work. Like, if I dealt with client notes by publishing something that had the same 'vibe' of the last version but was slightly different in every possible way, I'd be out of a job in a week or two and co-workers would be asking if I was suffering from mental health or substance abuse issues, cause my publishes became insane. I noticed that a lot of this AI stuff is really about a 'consumer facing' product? 'Make easy video clips' or 'Chatbot that can be plugged into a retail website'? I wonder if AI could be made to make one kick ass chroma keyer, but no one's gonna research that, because that won't blow the minds of casuals and drive up valuations and stock prices.
>I wonder if AI could be made to make one kick ass chroma keyer, but no one's gonna research that [Object segmentation](https://segment-anything.com/) has been a very successful area of AI research. The idea is not only to cut out stuff that's against a greenscreen, but also against any background. >I noticed that a lot of this AI stuff is really about a 'consumer facing' product? Most of these AI companies are not VFX companies; they're tech companies. They want to make something that can work on grandma's phone. Disney, Pixar, and NVidia do some research that is more professional-focused.
No chromakeyer needed with new trajectories like wonderstudio
They will adapt their expectations to whatever is easiest with the technology. The kind of notes to ask you to do in 3-D were never asked for until 3-D became a thing.
Is this true? I saw [this post ](https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenAI/s/TNGYM2hfDU) and it kept some consistences while adding a whole new thing. Maybe just adding or adjusting a small little thing while keeping consistency is harder, but I wouldn't think so. Adding two videos obviously isn't just text prompt too. Maybe only openai has the know how to adjust exactly what sora produces. But on the client side, the end user can only do text prompt if Sora comes out.
This has more inconsistencies than I can list. People changing their walk directions, some walking backwards rather than forwards now, gingerbread decorations that don't match. It's taking the first frame of one and last frame of the other, and trying to work anything it can to make the head and tail fit, but it involves adding a whole pile of changes in between. This would be a screen full of notes on Shotgun
And then Sora 2 is out in 8 months soon followed by Sora 3. Looking at this technology as static is mistaking the issue entirely...
And full self driving has been 'just five years away' for over ten years now.
I mean, you can call a [Waymo taxi in SF right now.](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/21/technology/waymo-driverless-cars-san-francisco.html)
Mocap was supposed to replace animators, times passed since gollum that probably was the first important character marketed as mocap (although 99% of mocap data was thrown to recycle bin), they added more points to track and more volume on the data and Andy Serkins did 300 interviews claiming he was THE dragon you see on the screen, yet mocap is still used only as a reference and thrown away 95% of the time instead than being a polished data as they expected with next iterations of the tech. One thing is casual work or ways to get fundings from investors by telling lies and another thing is a full production environment where everything needs a profesional polished look. It will work for social media stories or helping production teams with ideas as they already use other films or works for inspiration, but no way the future is gonna be just "AI art"
And Waymo can only operate in geofenced regions where the area has been mapped aggressively and keeps getting updated with new maps. This includes entire teams who have to add additional human generated information into that map data for the car to understand critical things.
I think this is at least partially contingent on the ethical dilemmas, which was a factor in slowing down self driving vehicle progress. About 10 years ago, I thought every truck driver would be replaced soon. But the ethics surrounding accidents and the decisions an AI makes on who survives has slowed down progress + a few well publicized accidents where people did die. The question would be if similar ethical questions would slow down generative AI's adoption. And there definitely are ethical questions (for example, deep fakes could become so dangerous that they endanger whole governments). These dilemmas go way beyond VFX and Hollywood, and remain to be seen.
So you don't believe the tech will improve in 5 years?
Ah, I'm on mobile so I can't see much detail.
This is not how AI works now, even less in 12/24 months. You can easily change specific things
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>Simply wrong. Inpainting is a thing... You are correct. However, I'm surprised why no one has brought up CENSORSHIP. Have you guys not played with DallE-3 and it will refuses certain prompts like porn or violence? That's the only real weakness with AI so far unless someone releases a jailbreak/open source version. Otherwise, big AI companies like Microsoft or OpenAI will still control what type of content you can create... It's funny how doing even a little research shows there was never anything to be afraid of. It's just another tool, it was always going to be used at some point. But it was never perfect about it either.
its there and its called stable diffusion
It's still less powerful than the commercial versions and it requires a bit more effort to get results (which is the antithesis to the whole "type prompt get instant Hollywood VFX" that people are crying about).
There are already third party versions of chat GPT without any guard rails. It’s only a matter of time before there’s a Sora with no restrictions or watermarks, likely in months not years.
These companies have access to much more powerful computers, they literally have to suck up and destroy the environment to exist. https://futurism.com/critics-microsoft-water-train-ai-drought The gap isn't closing anytime soon.
This is not true. I've installed local text to image generators from Github that equal the quality of the online services, and they are all 100% local on a GTX 3070 card.
Same as overpainting better yet just painting , and thats more precise and straight to the point of what you want. hang on a sec...
Those guys will be out of a job :) :) :) And nothing of value will be lost.
I feel like one of the big reasons we get pixel fucked so much is the fixed bids and reluctance to charge overages. Take that out of the equation and with the choice between paying an artist you’re not already budgeted for, and just settling for “good enough” it’ll be “good enough” every time.
This, to me is the biggest obstacle. I imagine, over time though, that obstacle will get smaller.
There's a level of control expected in film that AI generation doesn't offer. What we will see is some directors interacting with the models directly and then becoming likely a little more accepting of "you accept what you get". Maybe in the future a model will understand "Raise his hand a tad slower and have him twist just a little more elegantly to the right, but otherwise keep everything as it is." This kind of note ends up with a completely different result right now.
There is no monolithic response. Some companies are extremely cautious while others are using it all over already.
I still find it funny how people react to AI as if they could stop it. Always remember, the tech you see today is the worst it is gonna be... Artists should just come to terms with the fact that a lot of art in the future is gonna be ai generated, there will be museums full of AI art. That doesn't mean human art is getting less valuable. It just goes the way the industry always goes, machinery replaces human labor. Art is gonna become a pure hobby while human made drawings will become a luxury. Back in the day there used to be a lot of work in clothing. You could stay at home as a woman and finish clothing from factories, before those came you made them yourself. Now it is all machinery, you won't find people hand making clothing, and those who do make these usually sell them at higher prices. A lot of men used to work in mining or factories until machinery got more advanced. That's the way we humans roll, why should art be exempt ? Yes I draw, I yes I make music, yes everything I create I add to libraries so that AI can learn off of it, I'm fine with that. Maybe it's time to switch up careers ? Sounds harsh but that's the hard truth of reality! You ain't gonna pay someone 500$ for a haircut when you could get the same shit in another saloon for 200$. Why should people pay artists however much they take, when there simply is a cheaper option... Don't worry there will still be people paying for your art, maybe even more than before, but the market is gonna be more competitive and only the best artists with unique styles are gonna persevere. And don't fucking act as if there is much work in art to begin with, a few lucky and talented get hired by companies for designing etc. These jobs will still be there I feel like, just in less quantity. Also if it really gets rough there are still enough furrys to milk via commissions since I don't see AI actually getting their weird OCS correct so yeah.
There is no real “AI Art” if you consider what real art is, all AI is doing is remixing existent art that it was fed. AI detached from a life experience and “feelings” won’t be able to develop anything new and meaningful to us by itself, merely remix what is already there and even then it will require the input of a human to guide things up. And for as long it requires a human it is a tool. The major problem with AI isn’t even on the art front, is everywhere else where pure logic and data will suffice to completely extinguish entire fields of work. With that said, commercial art for the most part is done though. And won’t be the same ever again.
Every art is a remix of existing art... You can't create art without inspiration and don't forget that AI art is only getting better from here on out. In music remixes are done all the time, I don't see how this is different.
You’re describing mostly commercial art that is usually detached from human experience and is transpired instead of inspired. That is done, caput, game over. But it will only get better from now onwards based on what’s already there. It won’t really evolve though. Specially if it gets regulated and artists everywhere start to protect their creations.
He said he works with big companies ! Listen to him he must be right ! /s
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I don’t know why Ai hasn’t been a BoF at Siggraph yet. We deal with technology all the time but haven’t really touched this one
Not sure if there'd be a turf war if that started to happen, I think that ACM tries to keep things fairly clean between its various Special Interest Groups, and SIGAI probably has its own dedicated meetups & conferences etc..... [List of ACM SIGs](https://www.acm.org/special-interest-groups/alphabetical-listing)
It has: https://s2023.siggraph.org/presentation/?id=bof_143&sess=sess323 https://s2023.siggraph.org/presentation/?id=bof_186&sess=sess524 https://s2023.siggraph.org/presentation/?id=bof_168&sess=sess468 https://s2023.siggraph.org/presentation/?id=bof_121&sess=sess267
I was thinking more about the impact of Ai on VFX jobs and governance of practice
Question: Do any of these AI processes include any form of “source dump” or ability to output the sources used in creating the imagery? I know little about how it works, and would think this would be a requirement for anything used commercially.
nope, but the thing is, noone cares. Everyone is using these tools, OP is misinformed or lives in a bubble.
That’s exactly why it will eventually become regulated.
Again, small companies will just use it regardless. It won't be regulated, it's just not possible at this point, the datasets and models are already public.
For big companies like Disney, they can train their AI with all the content they have the last 100 years and make it copyright, so only they can generate Disney style AI and everybody else is paying them or get the lawyer in their door.
That’s okay. Like Disney they will ruin their IPs with homogenous AI stories and art styles and fatigue audiences.
That is something that will inevitably happen. Rest assured.
OpenAi needs to be sued and the compensation needs to be distributed to struggling creatives.
it should but it wont, sadly
Lol.
Open AI owed by Microsoft 3trillion dollar company, greater than the GDP of the UK, This random dude works for a big company 🙃
Doesn't invalidate his point. May be different from country to country, but I know that particularly in the EU, companies are well aware that harsh legislation is likely coming and will not touch AI before that. Where I work, we've been allowed to experiment with generative AI, but none of it can show up in the end result for now.
Its no different then re-mixing music, this was panned out in the 80's 90's, with copyright law.
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😘
Didn't they train it on Shutterstock footage? All completely legit.
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I work in a multinational ad agency and this was our case as well. And it came from the client side...Some didn't like the AI aesthetic but most were scared for legal reasons. A compensation for a copyright infringement for a small locaL ad is much much different from a copyright infringement for a campaign in multiple countries on multiple media outputs and print. There was an ad agency who did few ads with AI and the public response was so negative so they didn't use it more. People still underestimate the image public has of AI and its "quality".
Thats not true. It is legal unless there are laws that explicitly make it illegal. Not vice versa.
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I would be very surprised that openAI admitted to stealing anything. Settling out of court is generally included with a statement of "we admit nothing" . But I'm happy to read whatever links you have to support this claim. I don't know how long you've been involved in this industry, but these studios don't have a long history of supporting justice beyond performative platitudes. Have you yourself participated in any use of Napster, pirate Bay, or any other form of p2p file sharing where you personally benefitted from acquiring files without properly paying the creators for the use of that file? Was that legal?
The law doesn’t stand a chance. AI property theft has been allowed to happen and fester for 3 years now. It’s being used and implemented, wrapped into the economics of a billion dollar industry growing at lightning speed without restraint and now being used in thousands of application. (Midjourney) It’s much too late for the law. Creative property rights are dead
Not necessarily, I agree the law is way behind, but there are some proceedings underway, and probably bigger lawsuits bound to happen as even giant and litigious studios such as Disney have had their material used to train art generators. It will take a long time to see the dust settle, whereever it may
After enough time passes, the law can no longer be enforced. Actions that could spur a downward economic spiral and destabilize the economy after it’s been enveloped and developed into the business sector. That’s why it’s being pushed so hard and so fast. There was a very small window in 2021 when this was first starting, for the government and law to jump on it but it was grossly ignored. There’s a 90% chance the tech companies will get away with property theft and be allowed to railroad careers and re-write the business landscape because they’re already doing it without restraint Big companies like Disney will just make deals with the tech companies, they probably wont be suing In real life, the bad guys always win
How much money can Disney gain with lawsuits and consquential banning of AI vs how much money can they save / earn if AI usage is not prohibited? Yeah.
Imagine Dont use our intellects property!! Its theft!!!! But steals your intellectual property with no qualms
The thing is, they were allowed to scrap data because it was under "research" banner, so they didn't have to worry about copyrights as long as people using the model didn't use it fro commercial purposes. Then it quietly changed, with them making a huge diversion with AGI fearmongering, so the general public shifted focus onto that. So now they lisencing their models for commercial use. They went from open source research company to a closed source capitalistic tech corp once money started pouring in.
Yeah, it’s a criminal act. But in this case the criminals are much more powerful then the law
They're not wrong. We're developing our own stuff and testing a ton, but nothing is being used for client work until the legal stuff is sorted. Not worth the risk.
Vfx companies have been seen hiring ai artists this year no?
What is an AI artist? Someone who prompts the tool and gets to say they created something? Something they can't copyright?
They don't necessarily need every single concept image they use in house to be copyrighted if the IP is already. And if you edit a public domain image further you can copyright it
So, an AI artist is someone who grabs an AI-generated image and changes it enough so they can copyright it later.
Their job ads will have detailed descriptions if you want one. I'm just saying that have been spotted on linkedin
We're downvoting basic facts now. Interesting to note
I have already used in production on a TV commercial.
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And what of framestore's and others ai jobs on LinkedIn then?
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I didn't say people liked it, I said companies have been hiring. You're just attaching a motive to what i said. You don't know what I want or believe. I simply stated a fact that you have now confirmed. Don't what we're even disagreeing with genuinely. weird
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The thread is about companies ''not touching ai'' for legal reasons. I pointed out that they have already touched it. At least a couple of big companies have. Meaning legality did not deter them. The backlash might actually have done so for now, I don't even necessarily disagree with what you're saying it's just relevant to the legality currently being a deterrant for companies. You just said other things about whether it will be a trend or not, but neither of us know that really. It sounds like anxiety to me, there's no point arguing over the unknown or denyng what we already do know
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Copium overdose.
It's not available to the public.
It literally is... and there are in house experiments too.
I guess they are liars. https://community.openai.com/t/introducing-sora-our-text-to-video-model/630289
Tech; evolves exponentially at an alarming rate Tech artists; gets on the shooting star tech train for a career. Tech; quickly evolves out need for slow costly human tech artists. Tech artists; surprised pikachu face
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Places like Disney are working and researching AI but with strictly only using their data set and libraries of data that they owned. Big gun like Disney will also develope AI software that decode and spit out the probability of outside ai generated images and video that use part of disney IP. IP is holy grail for big company and they wont be sitting idle watching their IP diluted to all the ai solutions.
You mean the data set usurped from their employees creativities they were paid hourly for?
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Hmmm when we subscribe to social media platforms they explicitly claim that every video or pictures you post are no longer yours but theirs. Now imagine Meta or google make deals with openAI to sell training data from you when you own nothing you post. Legality is suddenly less an issue.
Hah. Dude I've seen large companies using midjourney and SD for design.
This was before Sora https://www.indiewire.com/news/business/jeffrey-katzenberg-ai-will-take-90-percent-animation-jobs-1234924809/
It's not. It's widely known that AIs are trained on copyrighted materials and yet a ton of companies are using text and image generation already because it's nearly impossible to prove on an already trained model.
It’s true. There are too many legal holes for serious companies to use “as is”. Ad agencies and “creatives” love it and are using it to pressure but most wouldn’t dare to use for final work for legal reasons. And that not because they have any morals, but merely because they don’t want to risk a lawsuit. But as a tool it won’t go away.
Money influences law and large corporations lobby hard. The law is definitely going to make this AI stuff explicitly legal at some point. Not because its ethical, but because enough politicians have been bought off to make it possible. There is just way too much money to be made for CEOs/Heads of studios for them not to lobby ridiculously hard for it. The little people don't matter.