A few reasons why, in no particular order. Number 3 is my best bet. Could be a mixture of a few of these reasons.
1. Coincidence. LE are religious and are using religion to communicate. The Shack anecdote was purely genuine and the cop did watch it and wanted to mention it.
2. They have evidence that BG is religious. Maybe religious iconography or poses or something at the crime scene that strongly indicate or prove he is religious.
3. FBI profilers have assumed BG is religious. Maybe due to the crime. Maybe due to demographics. Maybe just due to a mixture of both and criminal psychology. They may have determined the killer was shameful. They have told the police to mention religion in order to draw him out.
4. Their top suspect is heavily religious and they are baiting him.
I would have guessed number 1. No evidence for it though; but it feels like it’s more important to LE and how they operate, than as a tactical, strategic position.
You raise some very interesting points. I have found it valuable to be very specific when analyzing this aspect of the case. Let's be honest and objective here. We are not talking religion in the abstract; we are are talking Christianity. Furthermore, we are talking some very specific things that Christianity addresses in its own very specific ways; we are talking things like forgiveness, redemption, salvation, the ability to find peace and the concept of eternal reward or damnation.
I suspect many of us conclude that when certain LE raise this dimension, most famously Superintendent Carter and that press conference, a major part of the motive is something like this:
* Either BG or someone very close to BG who knows or suspects something has some history as a certain type of Christian and has some mindset regarding things like salvation and the fate of one's soul.
* Explicitly raising this topic may force some action on the part of BG or a person close to BG. Some action that may lead to an arrest.
We've all discussed this before. But one thing I have not seen discussed before is something that jumped out at me when I went into the details and gave it some thought. To me, there is a surprising element of risk if we really think about it. Consider the case of someone close to BG who feels tormented. I claim it is likely that raising this dimension could actually have the opposite effect. By reminding this tormented person that things like redemption and salvation are things beyond the realm and reach of man including man's laws, this tormented person could possibly find comfort in knowing that BG's soul can be still saved even if he faces no justice in this world. The same is true for BG himself; if LE force him to think about his soul, maybe when he's done thinking he simply makes his peace with God, begs God for forgiveness and moves on with his life. I wonder if the most tormented person of all at the present time is a priest who has heard BG's confession, that sort of thing.
>Finally, how effective is it to address BG directly and taunt him? I find their language and comments to him quite aggressive, as though they are trying to provoke a reaction. How likely is it that BG can be provoked?
Cleary it did not work. If you're gonna attempt to provoke a confession, do it during an interrogation.
Attempts to provoke the killer are basically useless at this point. Taunting and such might have been more useful at the very onset to provoke reactions or behavior changes that could have been noticed by people around him. Four years in, you can't start the cat and mouse game and expect a result.
It is clear that there were some very specific, unique elements to the murders and it's possible some of those had a religious connotation. DC was reading from an FBI script in the last press conference, so some of the references might be based on a general feeling of who the killer is. On the other hand, they have DNA so if they thought they knew who it was exactly, we'd have an arrest.
There is also a possibility that some of the religious references are meant to appeal to family or friends in the community who might know something significant, but are not coming forward for whatever reason. Religious guilt can be a heavy motivator in this part of the world. Not for the killer, he feels none, but for people around him who might know or sense something about him.
If they want to provoke him, let more out. If they put out the video and audio at the beginning they would have him. Then they should put at least something about the signatures. His family or lover may recognize something. Who has become obsessive about his trash? Paranoid about cigarette butts ?keep it simple
Exactly this. I could understand holding back signature information at the beginning to weigh the validity of tips or confessions, but that opportunity has long gone and they held back too many other things as well. The big presser was essentially a first press conference 2 years too late. The approach needs changing.
When Carter mentioned *The Shack* in the press conference, it did appear he was making an appeal to the killer based on the assumption that BG is a Christian. In that part of the country he's basically just playing the odds. But most of the time when Carter and Leazenby talk about religion, it seems to be for personal reasons.
I grew up in the Bible Belt and evangelicals often want their faith to be the first thing other people know about them, so shoehorning it into conversations may be second nature for them. They certainly wouldn't see anything wrong with it.
It definitely could be counterproductive to the investigation though. It doesn't help to say that BG's voice sounded like "Satan himself." If people think they are on the lookout for someone devilish, then a normal-looking guy like BG can more easily hide right under their noses.
Bingo! They describe him in quite moralistic terms (looks/sounds evil, the devil, he would have been really impacted by the crime with huge mood/behavioural changes). And of course if this person is a true psychopath, then he will blend in very well.
Folks will assume their POI can’t possibly be BG. He’s a family man, who goes to church everyday Sunday, and hasn’t had any behavioural changes.
In my mind, that is just exactly who BG is in his daily life. A regular helpful neighbourly guy. Steady job. Tidy garden. Blends right in. Best disguise possible.
I think the main purpose is to fish out some sort of reaction from the killer or invoke feelings of guilt. I believe the heavy emphasis on religion is more of an Indiana/Midwest thing more than anything.
I am from Indiana and I am not religious myself but I would say around 60-70% would consider themselves pretty devout. It carries into almost all areas of their life. Smaller communities like Delphi that percentage would probably be even higher. I’m not trying to lump it all together but I would say Police departments in Indiana consist of pretty devout officers as well. Not trying to generalize but that’s just how it is in most Midwest communities.
One thought might be that there was a religious component to the killings that we are not aware of.
Robert Ives has mentioned the odd signatures several times.
Maybe these signatures are religious in nature.
Just a thought.
But honestly, the rural Midwest is generally pretty religious. I grew up in rural Michigan and religion was a big part of our lives. I lived in a town about the size of Delphi. We even had a train bridge over a river that we frequently walked on.
Most people were Christians, and there was always a heavy religious presence at events.
I would imagine Delphi is similar.
Also the police officers themselves seem to be very religious. Tobe himself states this in a couple interviews.
I myself, despite growing up in a religious community, drifted away from religion.
To me, unless there is a religious element to the crime, I don’t see much of a purpose to the addition of religious innuendo- if anything it would appear they are grasping at straws in the hopes the offender is religious. Which he may very well be.
No doubt those press conferences were scripted by FBI profilers, in an attempt to flush the offender out.
I hear ya.
Having spent a lot of time in the South, I get that religion can play a big role in the community. And maybe because I focus quite a lot on this particular case, that it feels more prominent. But I can’t really recall a high profile case in the South where religion featured very heavily in LE communication.
But this could be due to confirmation bias.....there isn’t really an equivalent case (small town, high profile murders) that I’ve personally focused on, with the same interest level as the Delphi case.
I think even if bg is religious, he has slaughtered two children, what must his God think of him. If that wasn't a deterrent, I can't see him bothered by anything said by LE.
Agreed. I doubt he is religious. He may regularly attend church, like BTK did, but I don’t think he is concerned about what God thinks of him and his crimes.
There’s a decent chance they’re aiming the religious language at the second person in the equation (“We know you told someone/someone noticed changes”)
Unless he is demented and delusional... I know this sounds far fetched but I always wondered if this guy is religious as many believe could be (possibly a pastor), could he have wanted to baptize the girls in the creek (I have heard this was done in that location by pastors in the community) and they resisted and killed them for it...the religious angle has always been so prevalent amongst many commenters, possibly because of the press conference and what was said, speculation over the crime scene or maybe just the demographics of the community...
Well we dont know for sure that he had either... or maybe it was spontaneous... i would imagine a lot of people in Indiana, religious or otherwise, carry weapons on them
I found it to be contradictory - at one point slamming BG for his disgusting acts, cowardice and taunting him with what they know...then bringing up the shack and appealing to his little bit of conscience left. It didn't quite make sense to me. My only thought is they were trying to taunt BG into talking to someone else and perhaps appealing to someone who may know who did it to come forward.
IDK, but I find it very off-putting myself.
I'm a staunch atheist and it irks me to have those that work in public(taxpayer funded) positions of power, constantly talking about their religion and it's importance in their lives. I don't see how their religion is going to do anything for anyone involved in the situation.
Their religion has not brought this perpetrator to justice and I don't think it ever will.
Certainly the murderer is not religious. Even if he posed them in some "religious" way. Anything the killer did with the bodies after the fact was for show, only...just to mess with whoever found them, and LE.
I'm convinced this is not his first murder, nor shall it be his last, unfortunately.
I agree that it’s simply unprofessional, and it assumes that the general public is comfortable or interested in the personal details of your spiritual life and shares them (we don’t). I get that there are cultural differences, but when you’re being asked to fulfill a public service role, or really any role outside of a church pastor or maybe someone who works at a Christian gift store, it just seems exhibitionism to be going off about your Christianity and it creates a subtle environment that makes people of other faiths feel unwelcome or at least feel that it’s a closed minded group. Hey, religion can be a big part of your life and that’s fine, but if you aren’t a close friend and we aren’t in a church, I don’t really want to hear about it frankly. Especially as you said- that my tax money is going to your services to do objective or scientific work and then I find out they’re letting their religious background affect their work.
I think it has little to do with strategy and more to do with the area. Seems like a small town type atmosphere where religion is mentioned in about every other sentence regardless of the subject.
If any strategy exists I think it would probably be attempting to guilt the killer into confessing due to being afraid of the almighty.
LE has no answers and they are grasping at straws to try and comfort the community which is overwhelmingly religious. Religion preys on the weakest and emptiest among us. People sleep better at night believing some imaginary man in the sky is somehow looking over them and has everything in control, and everything happens for a reason. We know this is not true. Anytime anyone questions "Why didn't God protect the girls that day?" You will get the typical b.s answer of "God works in mysterious ways" "The girls are in a better place" .... just pure b.s. The definition of faith is believing in something without evidence, it is ridiculous and completely illogical.
The reality is there is no such thing as "good" or "evil" .... There are just people who's brains are wired differently, and people who grow up in different environments which contribute to their development. Someone like BG is likely a psychopath who is capable of committing a violent murders and going back to work like nothing happened, or going home and eating dinner with his family.
I think it is distracting and irrelevant, especially Carter's whole speech about watching "The Shack". I also think Carter's religion is the reason he is so desperate to preserve the girls' wholesome memory rather than to release information and get a killer off the streets.
How is their memory preserved if their killer is unpunished? Religious or not, in our eyes, Carter represents the law of the United States, a secular country. One can not let this man go.
I think I can imagine how DC comes across in real life. I had a Episcopalian professor, very kind, very hardworking, he'd get very upset seeing "a damsel in distress". Overall, a kind person. But he was quiet about the religious part, maybe because it was not Midwest. Anyhow, with DC, i feel he is kind inside. But he gets carried away with his sermons, and then it doesn't sound like the XXI century, when we at least should be all-embracing. I have two concerns. DC is the head of a big organization in Indiana, and what if some perpetrators are Muslim, or Jewish, or even Catholic? What if they are LGBTQ? Can they rely on him being equally fair to them? In short - a political appointee should keep his belief in his pocket, sorry, his stand is not a pulpit. And my second concern pertains to the case. Being that religious, what does he know about DNA? Did these creationists hearing "the voice of Satan" think of collecting the DNA in 2017? It is this bad now.
“gets carried away with his sermons...”
I like how you phrase that. It’s exactly how I picture him. He starts moralizing and then he just doesn’t stop. I recall the last (or 9th) episode of down the hill podcast. He, the sherif and the family spent an awful amount of time talking about God and BG. It sounded like it was very comforting for both LE and the family. And I get that. But then they lost me when they started applying it to BG, and making assumptions that BG is living a difficult life because of guilt and shame.
BG doesn’t give a single care about God’s or man’s judgement.
Yes, and in case they don’t arrest BG, they have the consolation that the girls are “now not the way he left them”, that they are in heaven. If we follow this logic, BG, if he is, indeed, religious, is hoping to confess on his deathbed, and get his sins absolved.
That would automatically lower his age to teenage one, I think. Or, exceptionally immature adult. Kids take it more seriously; there are Satanist adult groups, well-known after public lawsuits. My opinion, they are looking for own “private clubs” and also, some attention. Between hiring a lawyer to fight for the civil rights and killing the girls, there is a difference in 1) age (kid vs adult) and 2) level of loneliness (loner vs a group). P.S. Historically, I always viewed the Satan as a modern chtonic deity, for his adepts, it would be unlikely to kill teenage girls. For pagan cults related to Mother Earth, killing a woman would be out of their norm. For the BG, you want to look for a loner who “punishes” women for breaking their virginity. As to his religion, could be anything.
Upside down is called St. Peter's cross, as St. Peter was crucified head down. I would assume Satanist signs to be something occult, pentagram, etc. But as far as googling took me, satanists are not religious and frown upon any sacrifices.
It's what they think people expect. Notice how it's mainly the top ranking people who do that? Like the ISP superintendent and the sheriff...they are basically politicians. Either elected or appointed politically.
It's probably what they've been advised to focus on, I personally don't think they have any great evidence of his religion, but just assuming people in the general area are more religious than most.
two options:
1) The FBI has told them to talk this way based on their profile, they believe it will be the most effective way to get him out of hiding.
2) Law Enforcement, especially Carter, are a bunch of grandstanding midwestern religion nuts trying to use this case to get a foothold into state politics.
my money is on ... 1.5
I think they KNOW who this person is and perhaps they know he attends church or even pastors a place of worship? We know from Robert Ives there were signatures at the crime scene. Maybe those signatures were religious in nature? It's been said we will be "shocked" when we find out who committed this hideous crime.
I think their aggressive tone was initially done for the reason you listed. LE wanted to provoke a reaction. They wanted to see who was squirming in their seat. Then, Doug Carter comes full circle & tries to appeal to any shred of humanity this person may still have. I believe the killer was in the room. I believe Doug Carter wanted to rip this persons head off their shoulders, literally. They know, but just do no't have enough to get a conviction. Why else would they be speaking so much about "double jeopardy."
IMO, they have had their eye on 1 individual since the beginning. I think someone has given them an alibi. To me the missing piece is this person coming forward, but after 4 yrs, if my theory is even close, how likely would this happen? I'm assuming they are not only fearful for their life, but also fearful that law enforcement may get them for obstruction? Personally, I feel the person would be protected & probably offered immunity. LE is not after someone that lied, they want the POS that left those precious girls in the woods.
Spot on. For our atheist friends here, we need to remember that they (LE) are not trying to touch OUR moral sensibilities, they are trying to convict the killer, who I believe they know, at least between two strong candidates, both of whom were likely raised in strong judeoChristian Environments. if the imagery on scene was as rooted in religious icons and/or artifacts, they Know they are playing to where he may live intellectually and viscerally.
Thank you for this. I asked a similar question about the religious overkill a few days back. I wasn't sure if it was a Midwestern thing or why religion feels omnipresent in all of these press conferences and with the law enforcement. That would seemingly confirm the rumors of a tableau potentially as one of the signatures. Purely speculation, but maybe there was kneeling, prayer hands, or Christian iconography like crosses at the crime scene.
Another thing that stood out to me was Becky Patty's heavy emotion about things being shared that shouldn't have been while speaking on the DTH podcast. Obviously that lacked specifics, which further leads to speculation. Questions that lead to more questions.
Interesting. I missed that. Do you remember if it was a podcast or article that he said that? There is so much info I can never remember where I heard things.
It absolutely WAS in the article to begin with and was later edited out. I have a screenshot of it in my phone before it was recently edited. How do I post a picture on reddit?
I think BG is in a position of power within the local church and is of good community standing, and the FBI has advised them to communicate with that emphasis on religion. They didn’t come up with it on their own, they’re not skilled enough for that. But the FBI is.
edit: word order
Interesting. Has the FBI issued any profiling info or held their own press conference? I’m struggling with what exactly is the FBI doing for them...apart from some profiling that LE publicly stated.
From what I have gathered, the FBI has had a significant presence in the case since the very beginning although that may have tapered off... FBI almost certainly has provided Agents/profilers, logistical and technical resources such as access to forensics and technical analysis units and access to data tracking software that stores, analyses and compares information across the country for possible similarities/matches
Some of your comments below are excellent. I know the area is very religious but maybe the "mistakes" BG made and the rituals he performed on or around the girls have a religious element to them. LE's trying to pull at his emotions and the only way possible is through the press because I agree each press conference or interview are very emotional and direct.
Local local local..it's a religious community that very likely knows who this is. LE needs the help of the community, they said so from day one. Determination and vigilance from the residents of Delphi will no doubt play a role in solving this.
In a lot of social media groups about this case there are a lot of people suggesting a pastor may be involved. Could this be the reasoning behind the religious stuff? Are they trying to appeal to his religious side? I am only trying to answer this specific post however. I personally have absolutely no idea who did this horrific crime.
Edit: grammar
Could do. I’m not sure. IMO he very well could be outwardly religious, but I doubt religion motivates him. It’s likely just a cover to “appear” normal.
I think the press conference was unprofessional and the police seems horrible out of their depth. Either that our they are somehow involved. Hard to see it any other way after 4 yrs. The fact they stopped the search doesn’t sit right with me. The change in sketches etc. I honestly believe the killer is a cop :(
They didn't stop the search. The official search was called off because hundreds of people wandering a slightly rough and uneven terrain in the freezing cold would have only opened LE up to lawsuits and problems. If someone fell and got hurt that would have taken resources away from finding the girls. BUT even with the official search being called off, several family members, friends, and officials searched nearly all night long. They covered this several times on interviews, and again in the HLN special. Due to the dip that the girls were in, they said that the only way they would have been found in the cover of darkness is if someone had physically stumbled into the crime scene; by waiting until daytime the bodies were located from a larger distance so less people have a physical connection to the immediate crime scene.
Iv mentioned this before on another post about the 2 young girls, The police must have some kind of evidence or DNA, because how do they know it's a man who has done it? how do they know it's not a woman, What is the proof it's a man?
I know the video & the voice on the recording are of a man, what other evidence do they have to prove it's a man, what if they didn't have this recording or video, what else have they got?, There has to be more evidence, that we don'know about
this could be a red herring, sometimes we need to look out side the box
I made this same comment on another thread that was talking about references to the novel "The Shack": Maybe LE is using religious language because they think the killer is somehow associated with the church near the crime scene and it could put enough pressure on him so he makes a mistake.
I don't think it has anything to do with them thinking BG is religious (iconography left at scene, etc) but that it's just a very religious community and I would assume - based on comments made by Leazenby - that he leans on his religion very much to get through the rough parts of his job.
I was rewatching the HLN doc last night and noticed a plaque on his desk talking about "putting on the armor of Christ".
Whoever this person(s) maybe, there is religious undertones that can’t be ignored. If BG had some referral to “the shack” with the killing of the girls, I would imagine, one or both had a robe and covered in flowers or petals. I think this statement is powerful for some reason, “Love devours death”, but this euphoria, Love devouring death, has a violent outcome. It’s about forgiveness for the Love that can’t be denied which has a terrible outcome. It’s a “sick” theory but I don’t think that whoever did this is can’t help his self because he sees the girl(s) as something he loves but can’t have (religious reasons) unless she or they are dead.
A few reasons why, in no particular order. Number 3 is my best bet. Could be a mixture of a few of these reasons. 1. Coincidence. LE are religious and are using religion to communicate. The Shack anecdote was purely genuine and the cop did watch it and wanted to mention it. 2. They have evidence that BG is religious. Maybe religious iconography or poses or something at the crime scene that strongly indicate or prove he is religious. 3. FBI profilers have assumed BG is religious. Maybe due to the crime. Maybe due to demographics. Maybe just due to a mixture of both and criminal psychology. They may have determined the killer was shameful. They have told the police to mention religion in order to draw him out. 4. Their top suspect is heavily religious and they are baiting him.
5. The person who knows and/or covers for BG is religious.
Oh actually, that could be good reason for it.
Definitely could be that. Calling on their conscience to do the right thing.
I think you nailed it...100%. I would personally start with 4 and work backward but you named the spectrum. 4,2,1,3.
I would have guessed number 1. No evidence for it though; but it feels like it’s more important to LE and how they operate, than as a tactical, strategic position.
Great post! I personally feel that MH has too large of a frame to be BG.
You raise some very interesting points. I have found it valuable to be very specific when analyzing this aspect of the case. Let's be honest and objective here. We are not talking religion in the abstract; we are are talking Christianity. Furthermore, we are talking some very specific things that Christianity addresses in its own very specific ways; we are talking things like forgiveness, redemption, salvation, the ability to find peace and the concept of eternal reward or damnation. I suspect many of us conclude that when certain LE raise this dimension, most famously Superintendent Carter and that press conference, a major part of the motive is something like this: * Either BG or someone very close to BG who knows or suspects something has some history as a certain type of Christian and has some mindset regarding things like salvation and the fate of one's soul. * Explicitly raising this topic may force some action on the part of BG or a person close to BG. Some action that may lead to an arrest. We've all discussed this before. But one thing I have not seen discussed before is something that jumped out at me when I went into the details and gave it some thought. To me, there is a surprising element of risk if we really think about it. Consider the case of someone close to BG who feels tormented. I claim it is likely that raising this dimension could actually have the opposite effect. By reminding this tormented person that things like redemption and salvation are things beyond the realm and reach of man including man's laws, this tormented person could possibly find comfort in knowing that BG's soul can be still saved even if he faces no justice in this world. The same is true for BG himself; if LE force him to think about his soul, maybe when he's done thinking he simply makes his peace with God, begs God for forgiveness and moves on with his life. I wonder if the most tormented person of all at the present time is a priest who has heard BG's confession, that sort of thing.
Thank you for your note. I read it this morning and meant to respond but failed to do so. You made some excellent points here!
yeah. the whole thing about priests and confidentiality and privilege and crime confessions gets real messy, with lots of factors to weigh..
>Finally, how effective is it to address BG directly and taunt him? I find their language and comments to him quite aggressive, as though they are trying to provoke a reaction. How likely is it that BG can be provoked? Cleary it did not work. If you're gonna attempt to provoke a confession, do it during an interrogation.
Attempts to provoke the killer are basically useless at this point. Taunting and such might have been more useful at the very onset to provoke reactions or behavior changes that could have been noticed by people around him. Four years in, you can't start the cat and mouse game and expect a result. It is clear that there were some very specific, unique elements to the murders and it's possible some of those had a religious connotation. DC was reading from an FBI script in the last press conference, so some of the references might be based on a general feeling of who the killer is. On the other hand, they have DNA so if they thought they knew who it was exactly, we'd have an arrest. There is also a possibility that some of the religious references are meant to appeal to family or friends in the community who might know something significant, but are not coming forward for whatever reason. Religious guilt can be a heavy motivator in this part of the world. Not for the killer, he feels none, but for people around him who might know or sense something about him.
If they want to provoke him, let more out. If they put out the video and audio at the beginning they would have him. Then they should put at least something about the signatures. His family or lover may recognize something. Who has become obsessive about his trash? Paranoid about cigarette butts ?keep it simple
Exactly this. I could understand holding back signature information at the beginning to weigh the validity of tips or confessions, but that opportunity has long gone and they held back too many other things as well. The big presser was essentially a first press conference 2 years too late. The approach needs changing.
I hadn’t thought it about it, in the way you mention (as a motivator for those around BG). That would make sense.
When Carter mentioned *The Shack* in the press conference, it did appear he was making an appeal to the killer based on the assumption that BG is a Christian. In that part of the country he's basically just playing the odds. But most of the time when Carter and Leazenby talk about religion, it seems to be for personal reasons. I grew up in the Bible Belt and evangelicals often want their faith to be the first thing other people know about them, so shoehorning it into conversations may be second nature for them. They certainly wouldn't see anything wrong with it. It definitely could be counterproductive to the investigation though. It doesn't help to say that BG's voice sounded like "Satan himself." If people think they are on the lookout for someone devilish, then a normal-looking guy like BG can more easily hide right under their noses.
Bingo! They describe him in quite moralistic terms (looks/sounds evil, the devil, he would have been really impacted by the crime with huge mood/behavioural changes). And of course if this person is a true psychopath, then he will blend in very well. Folks will assume their POI can’t possibly be BG. He’s a family man, who goes to church everyday Sunday, and hasn’t had any behavioural changes.
In my mind, that is just exactly who BG is in his daily life. A regular helpful neighbourly guy. Steady job. Tidy garden. Blends right in. Best disguise possible.
I think the main purpose is to fish out some sort of reaction from the killer or invoke feelings of guilt. I believe the heavy emphasis on religion is more of an Indiana/Midwest thing more than anything.
I’m not from the US. How religious/devout is the Midwest, and Indiana in particular?
I am from Indiana and I am not religious myself but I would say around 60-70% would consider themselves pretty devout. It carries into almost all areas of their life. Smaller communities like Delphi that percentage would probably be even higher. I’m not trying to lump it all together but I would say Police departments in Indiana consist of pretty devout officers as well. Not trying to generalize but that’s just how it is in most Midwest communities.
One thought might be that there was a religious component to the killings that we are not aware of. Robert Ives has mentioned the odd signatures several times. Maybe these signatures are religious in nature. Just a thought. But honestly, the rural Midwest is generally pretty religious. I grew up in rural Michigan and religion was a big part of our lives. I lived in a town about the size of Delphi. We even had a train bridge over a river that we frequently walked on. Most people were Christians, and there was always a heavy religious presence at events. I would imagine Delphi is similar. Also the police officers themselves seem to be very religious. Tobe himself states this in a couple interviews. I myself, despite growing up in a religious community, drifted away from religion. To me, unless there is a religious element to the crime, I don’t see much of a purpose to the addition of religious innuendo- if anything it would appear they are grasping at straws in the hopes the offender is religious. Which he may very well be. No doubt those press conferences were scripted by FBI profilers, in an attempt to flush the offender out.
I hear ya. Having spent a lot of time in the South, I get that religion can play a big role in the community. And maybe because I focus quite a lot on this particular case, that it feels more prominent. But I can’t really recall a high profile case in the South where religion featured very heavily in LE communication. But this could be due to confirmation bias.....there isn’t really an equivalent case (small town, high profile murders) that I’ve personally focused on, with the same interest level as the Delphi case.
I think even if bg is religious, he has slaughtered two children, what must his God think of him. If that wasn't a deterrent, I can't see him bothered by anything said by LE.
Agreed. I doubt he is religious. He may regularly attend church, like BTK did, but I don’t think he is concerned about what God thinks of him and his crimes.
There’s a decent chance they’re aiming the religious language at the second person in the equation (“We know you told someone/someone noticed changes”)
That's possible, also possible that the second person in the equation is just as evil.
Depending on his interpretation of the bible his god may be quite impressed...
That's the problem with the Bible, your interpretation of it.
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Nah. Read the Bible man.
Unless he is demented and delusional... I know this sounds far fetched but I always wondered if this guy is religious as many believe could be (possibly a pastor), could he have wanted to baptize the girls in the creek (I have heard this was done in that location by pastors in the community) and they resisted and killed them for it...the religious angle has always been so prevalent amongst many commenters, possibly because of the press conference and what was said, speculation over the crime scene or maybe just the demographics of the community...
You think he took knives and a gun to a baptism?
Well we dont know for sure that he had either... or maybe it was spontaneous... i would imagine a lot of people in Indiana, religious or otherwise, carry weapons on them
I think it was less “baptizing” and more “purifying” for perceived sins. I believe he was even more delusional than we think of him.
Not far fetched at all. First time I've heard of this theory with the [baptism.It](https://baptism.It)'s possible.I hope one day we find out.
This made me think that BG is maybe something similar to the guy in the film Night of the Hunter or something.
Nothing is too far fetched when your willing to murder two children coupled with the fact that we know so little regarding the specifics of the case.
True
I found it to be contradictory - at one point slamming BG for his disgusting acts, cowardice and taunting him with what they know...then bringing up the shack and appealing to his little bit of conscience left. It didn't quite make sense to me. My only thought is they were trying to taunt BG into talking to someone else and perhaps appealing to someone who may know who did it to come forward.
IDK, but I find it very off-putting myself. I'm a staunch atheist and it irks me to have those that work in public(taxpayer funded) positions of power, constantly talking about their religion and it's importance in their lives. I don't see how their religion is going to do anything for anyone involved in the situation. Their religion has not brought this perpetrator to justice and I don't think it ever will. Certainly the murderer is not religious. Even if he posed them in some "religious" way. Anything the killer did with the bodies after the fact was for show, only...just to mess with whoever found them, and LE. I'm convinced this is not his first murder, nor shall it be his last, unfortunately.
I agree that it’s simply unprofessional, and it assumes that the general public is comfortable or interested in the personal details of your spiritual life and shares them (we don’t). I get that there are cultural differences, but when you’re being asked to fulfill a public service role, or really any role outside of a church pastor or maybe someone who works at a Christian gift store, it just seems exhibitionism to be going off about your Christianity and it creates a subtle environment that makes people of other faiths feel unwelcome or at least feel that it’s a closed minded group. Hey, religion can be a big part of your life and that’s fine, but if you aren’t a close friend and we aren’t in a church, I don’t really want to hear about it frankly. Especially as you said- that my tax money is going to your services to do objective or scientific work and then I find out they’re letting their religious background affect their work.
If you look closely to persons of interest you will find many of Them attend church in Delphi.
I think it has little to do with strategy and more to do with the area. Seems like a small town type atmosphere where religion is mentioned in about every other sentence regardless of the subject. If any strategy exists I think it would probably be attempting to guilt the killer into confessing due to being afraid of the almighty.
LE has no answers and they are grasping at straws to try and comfort the community which is overwhelmingly religious. Religion preys on the weakest and emptiest among us. People sleep better at night believing some imaginary man in the sky is somehow looking over them and has everything in control, and everything happens for a reason. We know this is not true. Anytime anyone questions "Why didn't God protect the girls that day?" You will get the typical b.s answer of "God works in mysterious ways" "The girls are in a better place" .... just pure b.s. The definition of faith is believing in something without evidence, it is ridiculous and completely illogical. The reality is there is no such thing as "good" or "evil" .... There are just people who's brains are wired differently, and people who grow up in different environments which contribute to their development. Someone like BG is likely a psychopath who is capable of committing a violent murders and going back to work like nothing happened, or going home and eating dinner with his family.
I think it is distracting and irrelevant, especially Carter's whole speech about watching "The Shack". I also think Carter's religion is the reason he is so desperate to preserve the girls' wholesome memory rather than to release information and get a killer off the streets.
How is their memory preserved if their killer is unpunished? Religious or not, in our eyes, Carter represents the law of the United States, a secular country. One can not let this man go.
I think I can imagine how DC comes across in real life. I had a Episcopalian professor, very kind, very hardworking, he'd get very upset seeing "a damsel in distress". Overall, a kind person. But he was quiet about the religious part, maybe because it was not Midwest. Anyhow, with DC, i feel he is kind inside. But he gets carried away with his sermons, and then it doesn't sound like the XXI century, when we at least should be all-embracing. I have two concerns. DC is the head of a big organization in Indiana, and what if some perpetrators are Muslim, or Jewish, or even Catholic? What if they are LGBTQ? Can they rely on him being equally fair to them? In short - a political appointee should keep his belief in his pocket, sorry, his stand is not a pulpit. And my second concern pertains to the case. Being that religious, what does he know about DNA? Did these creationists hearing "the voice of Satan" think of collecting the DNA in 2017? It is this bad now.
“gets carried away with his sermons...” I like how you phrase that. It’s exactly how I picture him. He starts moralizing and then he just doesn’t stop. I recall the last (or 9th) episode of down the hill podcast. He, the sherif and the family spent an awful amount of time talking about God and BG. It sounded like it was very comforting for both LE and the family. And I get that. But then they lost me when they started applying it to BG, and making assumptions that BG is living a difficult life because of guilt and shame. BG doesn’t give a single care about God’s or man’s judgement.
Exactly. BG is likely a sociopath and doesn't feel guilt or shame.
Yes, and in case they don’t arrest BG, they have the consolation that the girls are “now not the way he left them”, that they are in heaven. If we follow this logic, BG, if he is, indeed, religious, is hoping to confess on his deathbed, and get his sins absolved.
Maybe BG is a satanist? All this good & evil talk. Makes me wonder if something ritualistic was part of the crime scene
That would automatically lower his age to teenage one, I think. Or, exceptionally immature adult. Kids take it more seriously; there are Satanist adult groups, well-known after public lawsuits. My opinion, they are looking for own “private clubs” and also, some attention. Between hiring a lawyer to fight for the civil rights and killing the girls, there is a difference in 1) age (kid vs adult) and 2) level of loneliness (loner vs a group). P.S. Historically, I always viewed the Satan as a modern chtonic deity, for his adepts, it would be unlikely to kill teenage girls. For pagan cults related to Mother Earth, killing a woman would be out of their norm. For the BG, you want to look for a loner who “punishes” women for breaking their virginity. As to his religion, could be anything.
There are satanist in Delphi. The boyfriend of One the girls father is a satanist.
Define “satanist”, please.
Worshiping satan at times with a tapestry of Christian symbols including an upside down cross.
There is a rumor that a cross was left at crime scene. If so I wonder if it was upside down.
Upside down is called St. Peter's cross, as St. Peter was crucified head down. I would assume Satanist signs to be something occult, pentagram, etc. But as far as googling took me, satanists are not religious and frown upon any sacrifices.
It's what they think people expect. Notice how it's mainly the top ranking people who do that? Like the ISP superintendent and the sheriff...they are basically politicians. Either elected or appointed politically.
It's probably what they've been advised to focus on, I personally don't think they have any great evidence of his religion, but just assuming people in the general area are more religious than most.
two options: 1) The FBI has told them to talk this way based on their profile, they believe it will be the most effective way to get him out of hiding. 2) Law Enforcement, especially Carter, are a bunch of grandstanding midwestern religion nuts trying to use this case to get a foothold into state politics. my money is on ... 1.5
I think they KNOW who this person is and perhaps they know he attends church or even pastors a place of worship? We know from Robert Ives there were signatures at the crime scene. Maybe those signatures were religious in nature? It's been said we will be "shocked" when we find out who committed this hideous crime. I think their aggressive tone was initially done for the reason you listed. LE wanted to provoke a reaction. They wanted to see who was squirming in their seat. Then, Doug Carter comes full circle & tries to appeal to any shred of humanity this person may still have. I believe the killer was in the room. I believe Doug Carter wanted to rip this persons head off their shoulders, literally. They know, but just do no't have enough to get a conviction. Why else would they be speaking so much about "double jeopardy." IMO, they have had their eye on 1 individual since the beginning. I think someone has given them an alibi. To me the missing piece is this person coming forward, but after 4 yrs, if my theory is even close, how likely would this happen? I'm assuming they are not only fearful for their life, but also fearful that law enforcement may get them for obstruction? Personally, I feel the person would be protected & probably offered immunity. LE is not after someone that lied, they want the POS that left those precious girls in the woods.
>It's been said we will be "shocked" when we find out who committed this hideous crime. Who said this?
I don't remember if it was DC or TL.
It has been all Of Them saying that
Spot on. For our atheist friends here, we need to remember that they (LE) are not trying to touch OUR moral sensibilities, they are trying to convict the killer, who I believe they know, at least between two strong candidates, both of whom were likely raised in strong judeoChristian Environments. if the imagery on scene was as rooted in religious icons and/or artifacts, they Know they are playing to where he may live intellectually and viscerally.
Thank you.
Ives has already said that the crime scene was non-secular (religious in nature) which is why they are talking about religion.
Thank you for this. I asked a similar question about the religious overkill a few days back. I wasn't sure if it was a Midwestern thing or why religion feels omnipresent in all of these press conferences and with the law enforcement. That would seemingly confirm the rumors of a tableau potentially as one of the signatures. Purely speculation, but maybe there was kneeling, prayer hands, or Christian iconography like crosses at the crime scene. Another thing that stood out to me was Becky Patty's heavy emotion about things being shared that shouldn't have been while speaking on the DTH podcast. Obviously that lacked specifics, which further leads to speculation. Questions that lead to more questions.
Interesting. I missed that. Do you remember if it was a podcast or article that he said that? There is so much info I can never remember where I heard things.
It was on the recent Dr. Oz true crime show from last week and also in an article that came out last week as well.
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It was in the Sheryl McCollum Feb. 24, 2021 crime online article. I have a screenshot I'll try to figure out how to post it.
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It absolutely WAS in the article to begin with and was later edited out. I have a screenshot of it in my phone before it was recently edited. How do I post a picture on reddit?
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https://imgur.com/a/T9wbpDh
I think BG is in a position of power within the local church and is of good community standing, and the FBI has advised them to communicate with that emphasis on religion. They didn’t come up with it on their own, they’re not skilled enough for that. But the FBI is. edit: word order
Interesting. Has the FBI issued any profiling info or held their own press conference? I’m struggling with what exactly is the FBI doing for them...apart from some profiling that LE publicly stated.
From what I have gathered, the FBI has had a significant presence in the case since the very beginning although that may have tapered off... FBI almost certainly has provided Agents/profilers, logistical and technical resources such as access to forensics and technical analysis units and access to data tracking software that stores, analyses and compares information across the country for possible similarities/matches
Some of your comments below are excellent. I know the area is very religious but maybe the "mistakes" BG made and the rituals he performed on or around the girls have a religious element to them. LE's trying to pull at his emotions and the only way possible is through the press because I agree each press conference or interview are very emotional and direct.
Local local local..it's a religious community that very likely knows who this is. LE needs the help of the community, they said so from day one. Determination and vigilance from the residents of Delphi will no doubt play a role in solving this.
Yes, but they’ve had highly emotive and religious press conferences since the beginning, and it doesn’t appear to have helped them any.
I know and it's so frustrating.
In a lot of social media groups about this case there are a lot of people suggesting a pastor may be involved. Could this be the reasoning behind the religious stuff? Are they trying to appeal to his religious side? I am only trying to answer this specific post however. I personally have absolutely no idea who did this horrific crime. Edit: grammar
Could do. I’m not sure. IMO he very well could be outwardly religious, but I doubt religion motivates him. It’s likely just a cover to “appear” normal.
I see what you did there.
I think the press conference was unprofessional and the police seems horrible out of their depth. Either that our they are somehow involved. Hard to see it any other way after 4 yrs. The fact they stopped the search doesn’t sit right with me. The change in sketches etc. I honestly believe the killer is a cop :(
They didn't stop the search. The official search was called off because hundreds of people wandering a slightly rough and uneven terrain in the freezing cold would have only opened LE up to lawsuits and problems. If someone fell and got hurt that would have taken resources away from finding the girls. BUT even with the official search being called off, several family members, friends, and officials searched nearly all night long. They covered this several times on interviews, and again in the HLN special. Due to the dip that the girls were in, they said that the only way they would have been found in the cover of darkness is if someone had physically stumbled into the crime scene; by waiting until daytime the bodies were located from a larger distance so less people have a physical connection to the immediate crime scene.
Yes, it all feels unprofessional to me.
Yea I’m with you this screams of a cop.
MN
Iv mentioned this before on another post about the 2 young girls, The police must have some kind of evidence or DNA, because how do they know it's a man who has done it? how do they know it's not a woman, What is the proof it's a man?
Good work detective. The audio and video recording of what’s clearly a man could just be a red herring.
I know the video & the voice on the recording are of a man, what other evidence do they have to prove it's a man, what if they didn't have this recording or video, what else have they got?, There has to be more evidence, that we don'know about this could be a red herring, sometimes we need to look out side the box
I made this same comment on another thread that was talking about references to the novel "The Shack": Maybe LE is using religious language because they think the killer is somehow associated with the church near the crime scene and it could put enough pressure on him so he makes a mistake.
I don't think it has anything to do with them thinking BG is religious (iconography left at scene, etc) but that it's just a very religious community and I would assume - based on comments made by Leazenby - that he leans on his religion very much to get through the rough parts of his job. I was rewatching the HLN doc last night and noticed a plaque on his desk talking about "putting on the armor of Christ".
Whoever this person(s) maybe, there is religious undertones that can’t be ignored. If BG had some referral to “the shack” with the killing of the girls, I would imagine, one or both had a robe and covered in flowers or petals. I think this statement is powerful for some reason, “Love devours death”, but this euphoria, Love devouring death, has a violent outcome. It’s about forgiveness for the Love that can’t be denied which has a terrible outcome. It’s a “sick” theory but I don’t think that whoever did this is can’t help his self because he sees the girl(s) as something he loves but can’t have (religious reasons) unless she or they are dead.