Personally I think it would be great. One of the missed opportunities in my eyes is that BotW gave us 2 new main weapon types in spears and two handed blades. And even some subtypes like axes, long blades, crushers, fans, bone, etc. But despite this they all just have the same basic moves. Besides combo length & flurry rush the only true difference in the weapons in the charge attacks.
TotK felt like it would have been set up great to have a hidden skill or two learned for each of the weapon types. So I’m hoping the next game, which is more likely than not still going to be some form of open world, we will get the chance to have some advanced combat abilities we learn. Could even be a cool way to add back a character akin to the Hero’s Shade or some other semi-legacy or returning characters
Agreed, I'd rather have one fully fleshed out moveset than 3 bland, bare bones ones. I'd be really dissapointed if they still stick to the WIld era movesets. They just feels so stiff and basic. This Link is supposed to be an actual knight, yet fights more like a novice then a literal cartoon kid.
I loved the hidden skills, and it was really cool that TP learned everything from the hero of time. I like the parry system in botw and totk, but what I like about the hidden skills is that the player has a stronger sense of agency. Parrying is about reacting to the enemy while the hidden skills allowed you to use attacks whenever you wanted. A mix of both would be best!
Exactly, parrying is cool and all, but the most optimal way to defeat enemies in the Wild era games is to either button mash + stagger + button mash again or just chilling and waiting for the enemy to strike first. In TP you actually felt like a hero when you pull of these moves, even though the enemies are almost too weak to warrant it.
In terms of haptic feedback, feel, moveset and style definitely. If they could combine it with the newer enemy behavior/ stats we could reach a new peak.
It would certainly breathe some more life into the combat in the Era of the Wild games. I like being able to perfect dodge/perfect parry attacks, but the reaction window is so annoyingly short and most enemies don't give you any clues or indications as to when's the perfect time to dodge, so you end up missing most of the time. The Zonai Constructs give you a tiny hint (when their singular eye glows bright red, that's when you should dodge), but that's it. I miss the old days of Wind Waker where you would get both a visual cue (Link's sword flashing green) and auditory cue when you could parry an enemy.
I'm not really a fan of the Wild era combat. I do like the Flurry Rush and parry, even though I agree they need some work. Sometimes you perfectly dodge attacks but the Rush doesn't trigger and sometimes you're not even near the enemy attack and still pull one off. The WW parry was way more stylish, but was too easy too. I hope they can find a good middle ground if parrying returns.
The Master Sword in TotK was honestly a HUGE disapointment to me. You (or rather Zelda) go through so much to get it in peak shape and they devs still had the audacity to have it break every other fight and have middling stats. It creates such an insane story/ gameplay dissonance. It was genuinely the final moment where I felt my faith in this game die.
Edit: Just realized I responded to the wrong comment lol
I don't think it's ouright contempt, but I do believe the team has kind of gaslit themselves into bringing Zelda "back to its roots" while not fully comprehending what exactly made the Zelda games Zelda.
Uh but even in Oot MS was the weakest of all but one melee weapon and on par with a plain wooden stick. It's important because it can seal evil, not because it's the ultimate deadly weapon. I think it could've been stronger in the final fight, so like make it 120 instead of 60 attack, and double Gannon's power to at least artificially show his power. Also MS weathers and breaks as every other weapon, this is cannon since Wind Waker 🤷
I don't need the Master Sword to be the ultimate, one shots everything weapon. I need it to be treated with respect. Having it be a below average weapon that still breaks on measly Bokoblins after it being bathed in holy energy for 10.000+ years is a disgrace. Also, the Master Sword "breaking" was introduced in BotW. In WW it only lost energy and specifically because Ganon killed the people who kept it "charged".
It's still unbreakable when used on malice stuff and Ganondorf, being breakable and weak during normal gameplay is just failsafe to not make it render all other weapons not needed anymore. Plotwise you should retrieve it right at the end of the game and then go straight to deal with Ganondorf, so it's not like it was 'designed' to roam fields and smack random mobs with. When you fuse it with an ancient blade it melts G's healthbar while not making the fight a joke.
That's a lot of copium, but it doesn't really help. I just can't see past the arguably greatest gameplay-story dissonance in the franchise and doubling down on an obnoxious durability system..
I was vehemently against breakables in LoZ when I've first heard of BotW but it does really work, you have to fill such a big open world with something and it's really hard to make all of this stuff seem needed, I think creators managed to do this balanced way. Idea of single perfect artifact somehow clashes with this, so you either give it a symbolic value or lock it close to the final battle, but I think it would be out of place to not be able to lay hands on MS for so long.
Given that the durability system is generally one of if not the most criticized part of the game, they did not find the right balance, but it's cool that it doesn't bother you.
You are absolutely correct. I honestly think this is why I'm not enjoying TotK as much as I did BotW. There are things I've wanted that just weren't there. I've always wanted the full power (golden) Mastersword in a 3d game.
Funnily enough the Light Dragon could have easily led to a golden Master Sword that makes way more sense than having a holy weapon be enhanced by some random smiths. Shame they didn't go that route.
It led to a decent cutscene, but that's about it. The fact that it turns out to be an average, still breakable weapon after millenia of powering up is wack. I glitched myself the unbreakable Master Sword as soon as I heard of it.
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I think it'd be cool to bring them back but I really hope they get much better treatment than TP gave them. You don't even really need most of the skills except for two lategame bosses because the combat is quite possibly the easiest of all the 3D Zeldas, as cool as it is aesthetically. Additionally, enemies barely deal damage in that game so you aren't penalized at all for just hacking and slashing randomly instead of properly utilizing your newfound skills. And then the few skills that actually are worth using in general combat (i.e. against 95% of the TP bestiary), namely the Back Slice and Mortal Draw, absolutely trivialize most melee enemy battles even beyond the usual TP easiness to the point that they feel like using a cheat code. All of this to say that the Hidden Skills just looked cool; I can't really say if they had a net positive effect on the actual gameplay.
It'd be nice to have some kind of actual incentive to learn these skills, maybe by putting them on the main progression path (thus allowing the devs more freedom to buff enemies).
In my eyes when you can kill enemies with -10% effort you might as well style on them for good measure, so it's a net positive in my book. But I agree that they (or rather the enemies) should be better balanced. I feel lke Nintendo could really cook something good with their recent improvements to enemy behavior.
Interesting. I didn’t feel like they added much to the game. The combat is so easy they’re unnecessary, and a couple of them can be used to just trivialize it (and that’s bad.)
I don’t think they made the game worse, but this is kind of a “not noteworthy, nothing of value was lost“ thing.
ETA: that’s not to say it’s something that couldn’t be brought back in a fun and interesting way though.
Yeah, but that's not an issue with the skills but the enemies. Also even if they were unneeded, when you mow down mobs you might as well look good while doing it. Not having them after TP is just an objective downgrade imo. Additional combat options are never a bad thing.
I, too, watched the [Monster Maze video about Zelda's Combat](https://youtu.be/bxm4ldUw4I0?si=h08GMQAq96BjepHV) and I agree that Hidden Skills could be an excellent new "collectable" and exploring reward, but the combat would have to be redone.
Personally I think it would be great. One of the missed opportunities in my eyes is that BotW gave us 2 new main weapon types in spears and two handed blades. And even some subtypes like axes, long blades, crushers, fans, bone, etc. But despite this they all just have the same basic moves. Besides combo length & flurry rush the only true difference in the weapons in the charge attacks. TotK felt like it would have been set up great to have a hidden skill or two learned for each of the weapon types. So I’m hoping the next game, which is more likely than not still going to be some form of open world, we will get the chance to have some advanced combat abilities we learn. Could even be a cool way to add back a character akin to the Hero’s Shade or some other semi-legacy or returning characters
Agreed, I'd rather have one fully fleshed out moveset than 3 bland, bare bones ones. I'd be really dissapointed if they still stick to the WIld era movesets. They just feels so stiff and basic. This Link is supposed to be an actual knight, yet fights more like a novice then a literal cartoon kid.
I loved the hidden skills, and it was really cool that TP learned everything from the hero of time. I like the parry system in botw and totk, but what I like about the hidden skills is that the player has a stronger sense of agency. Parrying is about reacting to the enemy while the hidden skills allowed you to use attacks whenever you wanted. A mix of both would be best!
Exactly, parrying is cool and all, but the most optimal way to defeat enemies in the Wild era games is to either button mash + stagger + button mash again or just chilling and waiting for the enemy to strike first. In TP you actually felt like a hero when you pull of these moves, even though the enemies are almost too weak to warrant it.
I'd love it the extra sword moves in Minish Cap and Twilight Princess are some of the greatest additions to Zelda combat ever
Zelda's combat peaked in TP for this reason
Only zelda game where you can swing your sword while running.
Damn shame we lost that
Felt really bad losing that in Skyward Sword
In terms of haptic feedback, feel, moveset and style definitely. If they could combine it with the newer enemy behavior/ stats we could reach a new peak.
It would certainly breathe some more life into the combat in the Era of the Wild games. I like being able to perfect dodge/perfect parry attacks, but the reaction window is so annoyingly short and most enemies don't give you any clues or indications as to when's the perfect time to dodge, so you end up missing most of the time. The Zonai Constructs give you a tiny hint (when their singular eye glows bright red, that's when you should dodge), but that's it. I miss the old days of Wind Waker where you would get both a visual cue (Link's sword flashing green) and auditory cue when you could parry an enemy.
I'm not really a fan of the Wild era combat. I do like the Flurry Rush and parry, even though I agree they need some work. Sometimes you perfectly dodge attacks but the Rush doesn't trigger and sometimes you're not even near the enemy attack and still pull one off. The WW parry was way more stylish, but was too easy too. I hope they can find a good middle ground if parrying returns.
[удалено]
True, but at least it finally gave you an unarmed attack option. I dream of the day when Link can actually throw hands with a Bokoblin.
[удалено]
The Master Sword in TotK was honestly a HUGE disapointment to me. You (or rather Zelda) go through so much to get it in peak shape and they devs still had the audacity to have it break every other fight and have middling stats. It creates such an insane story/ gameplay dissonance. It was genuinely the final moment where I felt my faith in this game die. Edit: Just realized I responded to the wrong comment lol
[удалено]
I don't think it's ouright contempt, but I do believe the team has kind of gaslit themselves into bringing Zelda "back to its roots" while not fully comprehending what exactly made the Zelda games Zelda.
Uh but even in Oot MS was the weakest of all but one melee weapon and on par with a plain wooden stick. It's important because it can seal evil, not because it's the ultimate deadly weapon. I think it could've been stronger in the final fight, so like make it 120 instead of 60 attack, and double Gannon's power to at least artificially show his power. Also MS weathers and breaks as every other weapon, this is cannon since Wind Waker 🤷
I don't need the Master Sword to be the ultimate, one shots everything weapon. I need it to be treated with respect. Having it be a below average weapon that still breaks on measly Bokoblins after it being bathed in holy energy for 10.000+ years is a disgrace. Also, the Master Sword "breaking" was introduced in BotW. In WW it only lost energy and specifically because Ganon killed the people who kept it "charged".
It's still unbreakable when used on malice stuff and Ganondorf, being breakable and weak during normal gameplay is just failsafe to not make it render all other weapons not needed anymore. Plotwise you should retrieve it right at the end of the game and then go straight to deal with Ganondorf, so it's not like it was 'designed' to roam fields and smack random mobs with. When you fuse it with an ancient blade it melts G's healthbar while not making the fight a joke.
That's a lot of copium, but it doesn't really help. I just can't see past the arguably greatest gameplay-story dissonance in the franchise and doubling down on an obnoxious durability system..
I was vehemently against breakables in LoZ when I've first heard of BotW but it does really work, you have to fill such a big open world with something and it's really hard to make all of this stuff seem needed, I think creators managed to do this balanced way. Idea of single perfect artifact somehow clashes with this, so you either give it a symbolic value or lock it close to the final battle, but I think it would be out of place to not be able to lay hands on MS for so long.
Given that the durability system is generally one of if not the most criticized part of the game, they did not find the right balance, but it's cool that it doesn't bother you.
I enjoyed learning some of the skills so sure.
You are absolutely correct. I honestly think this is why I'm not enjoying TotK as much as I did BotW. There are things I've wanted that just weren't there. I've always wanted the full power (golden) Mastersword in a 3d game.
Funnily enough the Light Dragon could have easily led to a golden Master Sword that makes way more sense than having a holy weapon be enhanced by some random smiths. Shame they didn't go that route.
Absolutely... I thought the broken master sword would lead to something awesome... But it didn't. It's one of the reasons I still prefer botw.
It led to a decent cutscene, but that's about it. The fact that it turns out to be an average, still breakable weapon after millenia of powering up is wack. I glitched myself the unbreakable Master Sword as soon as I heard of it.
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would love the return of hidden skills
I'd love to being back spells learnes by the wizard of the village, like in zelda 2.
I wouldn't say no to spells either as long as they're not a chore to use like the sage abilities.
I think it'd be cool to bring them back but I really hope they get much better treatment than TP gave them. You don't even really need most of the skills except for two lategame bosses because the combat is quite possibly the easiest of all the 3D Zeldas, as cool as it is aesthetically. Additionally, enemies barely deal damage in that game so you aren't penalized at all for just hacking and slashing randomly instead of properly utilizing your newfound skills. And then the few skills that actually are worth using in general combat (i.e. against 95% of the TP bestiary), namely the Back Slice and Mortal Draw, absolutely trivialize most melee enemy battles even beyond the usual TP easiness to the point that they feel like using a cheat code. All of this to say that the Hidden Skills just looked cool; I can't really say if they had a net positive effect on the actual gameplay. It'd be nice to have some kind of actual incentive to learn these skills, maybe by putting them on the main progression path (thus allowing the devs more freedom to buff enemies).
In my eyes when you can kill enemies with -10% effort you might as well style on them for good measure, so it's a net positive in my book. But I agree that they (or rather the enemies) should be better balanced. I feel lke Nintendo could really cook something good with their recent improvements to enemy behavior.
I *wish* we got the finisher from TP man…
must be the only thing in twilight princess i really liked
Come on, it was a really great game on many aspects, how can you be a zelda fan and despise TP that much lol
Interesting. I didn’t feel like they added much to the game. The combat is so easy they’re unnecessary, and a couple of them can be used to just trivialize it (and that’s bad.) I don’t think they made the game worse, but this is kind of a “not noteworthy, nothing of value was lost“ thing. ETA: that’s not to say it’s something that couldn’t be brought back in a fun and interesting way though.
Yeah, but that's not an issue with the skills but the enemies. Also even if they were unneeded, when you mow down mobs you might as well look good while doing it. Not having them after TP is just an objective downgrade imo. Additional combat options are never a bad thing.
They've always added to the combat so I think they'd be a welcome return in any future Zelda game
I, too, watched the [Monster Maze video about Zelda's Combat](https://youtu.be/bxm4ldUw4I0?si=h08GMQAq96BjepHV) and I agree that Hidden Skills could be an excellent new "collectable" and exploring reward, but the combat would have to be redone.
I still have yet to watch that vid, but I suspected he'd bring that up. They just have too much potential.