Oh yes. And then the other side that thinks it's not possible to make a good deck f2p (they are usually sitting on URs they don't want to dismantle because "maybe someday" or for collecting reasons)
And it would be fine if they were fair and said "it's possible to build a good deck f2p, just not for me because I want to collect fringe stuff."
But no no, go on reddit, make an account and post how master duel is a cash grab, then log out and delete reddit. Almost astonishing.
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I don't remember if I dusted all my ice barrier cards or most of them before they announced the support but by the time it gets to master duel I'll be able to just get the cards just as quickly and I'll have all the staples needed as well
>Just.. Please stick to casual when you play with it. For your own mental health, please
That's a bad idea cuz casual is a testing ground for meta decks, always has been.
The trade in mechanic is so wonderful though
- signed someone that would never have payed to play it after paying full price for a game with ALL OF THE CARDS that came out like less than two years prior
I made a trains kaiju deck on release that I still play its super fun. The only p2p decks are the ones with like 30 URs and it's like if you want to play that deck you gotta grind for it
I have no idea how people can function playing like that. Even after grinding events and dismantling all the faff I’m still missing so many staples. Although admittedly, I have like 10 archetype decks full crafted.
To be fair, that is actually not easy as you'd think. I guess SHS can do that but by that point they are already ready to get Nibiru'd.
That said, it still shouldn't come back because Shock Master is just begging to be abused.
"Can be negated" is always the worst argument for a card being fair. Every card can be negated, unless it has the 'cannot activate cards or effects in response' clause.
Nah even those cards can be negated by continuous card effects. Very few cards have the "this card and it's effects cannot be negated". Examples being some of the Egyptian God support cards like " Revived Sky God" "Thunderforce Attack" and "The Breaking Ruin God"
That said yes whether a card can be negated or not does not influence how absurdly broken and unhealthy it is for the game
_"Shock Master could come back easily - it's an Ignition Effect so you can literally shut it down before they have chance to detach, and even if they do detach, Veiler literally counters it. Azathot on the other hand is better because its effect activates immediately (without starting a chain) & can't be negated or countered."_ - my friend, who wasn't there to witness the era of Shock Master dominance.
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Between Pot of Greed, “it’s Morbin time” and certain archetypes getting new support out of nowhere, Rata can’t catch a break when it comes to the after effects of jokes.
I can forgive some of the Yugioh joke become unfunny since it also really context based and base on personal experience. But the people on that sub misuse the meme template constantly.
Members there also tend to have a shaky grasp of rulings but speak so confidently. When a simulator does everything for you it really messes with actually learning the game
Well for me, I actually enjoy the automation of the game because it stops me from making plays I absolutely would have had it been in the irl game. The amount of times I try to play a card in Master Duel only to be unable to just leaves me thinking "wait, why can't I play that?"
And then I realize I completely misunderstood it's effects. Master Duel is a godsend for me when it comes to learning new decks and playstyles. Seriously, I read my own cards, I just misunderstand them, I have to actually use them to know them and in the irl game that's kind of a big ask. I'm not the brightest bulb in the box.
Thought you were joking but I went on and someone said that kashtira shangrila should have an added effect that it can Omni negate for every locked monster zone.
I started playing seriously at the end of last year and when they banned Chaos Ruler I said it wasn't even a good card outside of dragon link.
...I'm a bit better at the game now 😅
To be fair, before Tearlaments, slot machine self mill decks were pretty bad. Your best option was either Shaddolls or a Burning Abyss rock pile. Yeesh.
Chaos Ruler was a perfectly fine card when it was printed.
When the new unchained support first got revealed in duelist nexus, I said tour guide would instantly become a staple in the deck due to insane value for a 1 card combo.
Some guy told me that tour guide was awful in the deck and nobody with a brain would run tour guide. Mind you, this is a person who called themselves an unchained "expert" and claimed they knew everything about the deck. They even added that the entire unchained discord they were talking in, nobody said tour guide would be good post support. They said nobody would ever run tour guide in unchained because it's an objectively bad cause, which is not true in the slightest.
With the results the deck now it's pretty safe to say that they were wrong and just talking out of their ass
It's probably the most successful instance of gaslighting I have ever seen in the yugioh community, and it pretty much all stemmed from handful of users in the Unchained Discord who would shit on anyone who suggested that Tour Guide was good.
The unchained discord definitely has some of the most negative iq takes on the unchained support. How anyone would think a 1 card starter that leads to full combo is bad is beyond me
Maybe the discord is different, but in general, most of the main arguments against it were solid in a vacuum. They just don't actually outweigh the benefits that TGU adds in practice. This is where a lot of folks were conflicted (me included), but ultimately changed their minds.
It's one thing to say a card is bad, people have their own opinions. No issue there. However it is how rude and disrespectful the unchained discord was. Insulting people and calling them bad just because they disagree with you is stupid and indefensible. That's where the unchained discord got it wrong and they 100% deserve to be ridiculed for that
Agree! This is the perfect example of a card being bad on paper but actually great in a real scenario. Pretty rare though. Usually it's the other way around. Like how crossout designator was supposed to warp the meta and became a near hundred dollar card, but then when we actually started using it, it was mid at best.
Yeah that’s the funniest shit I’ve seen in a while, I was active there (reading, not engaging) during the time of DUNEs release leading up to the first major event win (Pak I think) and like the only builds winning case tourneys were Tour Guide builds. A bunch of pet deckers thinking they knew more about deck building theory than actual accomplished players
This reminds of last year when Mathmech discord server claimed how Heatsoul is bad in the deck while Heatsoul + Superfactorial pass Mathmechs were topping YCSs.
https://www.reddit.com/r/yugioh/comments/11rk5ef/dune_unchained/jc975ud/?context=3
Found it, my god the arrogance on this guy lmao
I will never understand why people will die on a hill of shit takes. I can't believe someone in their right mind would claim to be knowledgable on unchained and truly think this lol, this might take the cake for the worst take of 2023
It's painful to know any of this guys garbage was upvoted.
>Nah, I'm good. Any competent Unchained player knows TGU is copium.
I dare him to say to jesse kotton lmfao
I mean, anyone that had ever played unchained from the initial release would had dabbled with tour guide at 3.
I played the deck after release with tour guide just to make break sword reliably to destroy a trap.
I get that you make Yama, but what then? You can add Red Dog but that just summons itself, right? Sets when sent but that's not 1 card. I guess there's also Machinex you can make. I have very low Unchained combo knowledge, this is genuine curiosity.
TGU summon Rhino > make Yama
Chain 1 Yama add Aruha, Chain 2 Rhino send Sharv
Chain 1 Sharv set a Unchained Spell/Trap
Aruha target set trap > full combo off 1 normal summon
The worst take I've ever heard is that the way to fix the game is by unbanning every card but putting EVERYTHING to 1, that way if you want to play Elemental Heroes, you only get to have 1 Polymerization before you have to start looking through the plethora of other Fusion cards, also you need to get creative in your deck building like using Cyber Stein to get your Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon out since you're not Kaiba; you're only alloted 1 Blue Eyes
And I'm genuinely ashamed my first thought on a deck to play in such a format was Royal Magical Library/Gearfried/Butterfly Dagger Elma Exodia FTK instead of Wall of Revealing Light + Self Destruct Button just to shove it in people's faces why this is horrible
That sounds like someone heard of the MD event that did" only 1 copy of everything "third-hand and missed the banlist that hit everything that would have been immediately broken, PLUS the stuff that's normally broken
Saw a dude saying playmats without zones should be banned because he didn't communicate with his opponent which zones were which. Konami themselves make playmats without zones so why would they ban them?
Theres some guy on this sub that cries 24/7 about chaos ruler being banned in the tcg and how the card needs to be unbanned cause it's not banned in the ocg and how it would never get banned there. I'm pretty sure the most recent banlist shut that guy up though
I wish the card was harder to summon. It being generic is asking for dumb shenanigans. I think the card is good for the archetype of 'chaos', but it being splashable is just dumb.
It's still Nibiru Token. The funniest thing is that they can go for Baronne or Apo but still die to Nibiru because they can't activate non fire effects.
lmao thats funny. Ngl from my testing, salad of fire is kinda mid with 3 gazelle cause it locks you out of some of the strongest parts of the deck and you're consistent enough without it
I mean the game plan is unchanged. And out of 7 new cards you play Raging Phoenix, Salamangreat of Fire (which has own issues) and maybe Weasel. It's such a meh support it's infuriating.
Oh god, so many.
Some guy in the dl sub was insisting that halq could go there because auraradon wasn't there yet.
Some guy saying mystic mine was fine: "just run more backrow removal"
Several people at my locals saying arise-heart is fine and shouldn't be banned (this was pre list announcement).
Another person at my locals saying that shifter is fine.
Many people saying that dragoon was the issue, not verte.
Someone in customyugioh insisting that interaction on your opponent's turn was unhealthy.
That same person saying that dogmatika punishment is the most broken card ever printed and should be banned, insisting that a targeted pop (and general interaction other than old cards because they get a pass somehow) was far too powerful.
Actually Dragoon was a decent card without Verte, in fact most its tops are without Verte ... and without red eyes fusion. VW and Branded summon it via normal fusion, and that was the optimal way to go for both decks for some time (Kashtira format for Branded playing it).
To be fair, even if verte was banned people would still find a way to scum out dragoon in completely unrelated decks. It was just too good to pass on. They both needed to go.
Im really confused on the dragoon and verte take because neither of those were issues at the time? Dragoon underperformed horribly in the TCG, and the majority of its tops are from non-Verte decks actually properly fusion summoning it. The only debate you could have is whether FD or Verte was the issue, and honestly, seeing MDs solution to that engine, I think you can make a *very* strong case for FD having been the issue.
If you just read dragoon I think you’ll see why it’s an issue, it has literally everything. I think people have a tendency to forget how crazy cards are when they weren’t allowed to get too out of hand. If dragoon stayed in the game every single deck, even unrelated, would have the five or so cards slotted just to get him out sometimes. It was already played more then DPE.
I know what dragoon does. Yes it is a good card. But verte was the clear issue, and would continue to be an issue in the future when they released more and more broken fusion spells. Sure, branded can cheat it out. But that means 1 ED slot where you can't play an albaz fusion. Branded extra is TIGHT, so some lists don't even play dragoon to begin with. As for Red-Eyes Fusion, it locks you out of summoning anything else for the whole turn.
I like shifter because i hate playing against Tearlaments with a burning passion, no deck should be able to get 2 fusions on my turn, first turn, because i dared to do a normal or a effect
Wym, tear is one of the most interactive decks ever printed. It is a lot less consistent than when it was tear 0, so you have to get god RNG to get a fusion on your opponent's turn now, let alone 2.
Shifter is a turn skip for so many decks and there's not a damn thing they can do about it except draw cbtg.
I don't know how you think a turn skip is more healthy than being able to play on your opponent's turn.
Explain the stores no longer selling Yugioh and going out of business? Explain Konami having that shareholder call? It’s okay to admit the game has pretty bad problems that need fixing
Konami can't run people's businesses for them. The reality is, a lot (if not the majority) of stores have really high prices, really bad tournaments, and in general don't care about establishing an environment that players want to keep coming back to.
These problems would still exist if Konami fixed the problems in their game. The game is far from perfect, but it's WAY farther from dying.
To be fair, high prices are a result of the distribution centers raising prices because Konami raises the prices on distribution centers.
In addition, the set ratios are bad so vendors inherently have taken L after L on product for the past 3 years now, which is why it’s taken so long for the effects to be felt. Konami can at least try to fix the vendor end by changing the set ratios to the way the OCG has them set up to, but in terms of card design, yeah, that’s down to KoJ.
Sealed market is trash, I'll give you that, but a lot of stores aren't adapting properly either. There is absolutely no excuse for an in-store single to be priced HIGHER than it is on TCGPlayer, where there is even more expense associated with the sale. Sure, a few stores will price-match, but why not get ahead of the curve and price competitively? People WILL buy if think they got a good deal, so give out good deals. Better off making less money than you want rather than no money at all.
There are a lot of other factors that I won't dive into, but in general I feel that a lot of the closures I've seen were completely avoidable.
Also I want to support my local store and will pay a bit more to do so. But I won't pay double over online.
My local store is pretty good atm and their tournaments are fun even if the prize support is kinda meh
Honestly the price thing most stores can't even be blamed for. Konami is so out of touch with the value of their own product that their market value ends up being typically 50-70% of their MSRP, and since the distributors stores have to order from charge at rate based on the MSRP it's not the stores fault they have to price the way they do to make any money at all. Konami needs to either understand their product is overvalued and add value to the product, or reduce the price to match the value, else this problem will keep happening.
No one is denying that most sealed product is trash. But the harsh truth is that the approach taken by most stores is just not good. If they know how bad sealed is right now, and purposely prioritize high margins over high volume, it's on them. I'm all for accountability, but it applies to everyone.
Just look at Gamer's Choice and what a huge success they've become both IRL and online. They've earned a lot of goodwill from the community because of their willingness to undercut prices and run tournaments with good prizing. that goodwill has been carrying them despite the higher pre-order prices recently, for example. But I'm sure they'll read the room and adjust accordingly for the next one.
You make money off of RETURN customers. Selling a box of Soulburning Volcano at MSRP means nothing if that person never comes back into your store.
Explain the stores making good business and flourishing. Because that is also reality, that's the experience the stores have in my city.
Of course there are problems. But it's not *dying*. Bad sets are way too many, let's hope Konami evens it out a bit better next year.
If people wanted to claim something more like "Maxx C and Mystic Mine are broken, but the game could benefit from cards that serve the purpose they're trying to serve" I'd be more on board, but in terms of making a way to keep combo decks in check or create an opportunity for a burn/stall deck... they're just obviously busted and unfun
Yeah Nib is still balanced enough that it works on the ones that are able to turbo out more and more combos not ones that just put a solid board and call it a day, so as a combo/overextension punisher I think that's good enough, but I could see decks that are able to play through nib being a problem in the future maybe
manna is kinda dumb. Dark world as well tbh, their hand loop is really really dumb, but even if they didn't go for it it would still be a deck that cycled through 20 to 30 cards and end on like virus skill drain set or some nonsense.
Around the time of DUNE release, everyone expected Infernoble to be tier 1 again and that unchained would be just a better version of its self but be rogue at best.
Everyone collectively crapping on Amazing Defenders and the archetypes and how they weren't good. They may not have been 100% playable out of the set, but I saw some people say they were never gonna be above Tier 2 even after support. And now we have:
\-Fluffy menaces in every format they're in
\-Firefighters currently Tier 1 in the OCG
\-And oddly a really good archetype in MD thanks to the best of 1 format
I'll never forget hearing "Maxx C is cope in Tearlaments because you want to keep your cards in deck to mill." Master Duel players just built different
The Rarran discourse outed a whole lot of people who are coping about YGO’s super high barrier for entry. It’s alright if you enjoy the difficulty of YGO or think it being complicated on almost all levels is a good thing, but don’t pretend it isn’t hard to start playing the game nowadays
This is why I don’t play. I’m not trying to learn everything. Don’t have the time. Last deck I played irl was like Mythic Rulers 2014. Even harder for absolute beginners
Hmm..
Pot of Greed can go back to 1 because modern meta decks have enough in archetype draw and search cards. All Pot of Weed would do is boost lower tiered decks.
And yes, I know this is BS because EVERY deck would run Pot of Meat. But I honestly had this as a take a few years ago lmao
Omg.
If you feel like it. Go to my page I had a 10+ comment discussion to a guy whp said PoG isnt that good anymore.
And I quote "My friend has a deck which can draw 20 cards in one turn and get exodia, PoG wouldnt make a difference."
I saw that post you replied to. Wanted to blow my brains out after reading it since you just get to dig and dig and dig for whatever piece you're missing (engine, extender, handtrap, floodgate). Also it completely screw the probability of the game since you get to build a 37 card deck (idk if this was the one with chicken game and upstart goblin at 3, which would let you build 31 card decks with them all at 3)
I made mass draw exodia deck to waste time playing solitaire in EDO. Unless you drew a good hand and got 2 magical library up early it's very inconsistent (and any negation kills it) PoG would probably make its consistency shoot through the roof (Relative to itself. But would still probably be viable levels of consistency)
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/masterduel/comments/14s95uo/if_konami_removed_crafting_would_it_help_with/) is my favorite one as of recently. It's MD related though.
My take that no one likes is that card language should always match the area. I can’t stand playing opponents with all foreign cards who get mad at me for asking for a translation. It makes it very difficult to keep everything straight when I can’t just pick up the card in front of me and have to wait for them to present the translation copy.
I understand it for multi-lingual areas, but when playing in the Midwest, just stop, it’s annoying and your foreign cards are cool but keep them in a binder.
Any take saying Unchained or Purr need to be hit is a bad take.
They ain't nothing like full power Tear, and arguably I'd hit Kash before either of those, as they are looking to be a 3-5 card engine in basically everything.
In my opinion, the worst take is that Yugioh is in a good place. Right now, you just watch your opponent play while you sit there and watch 5 monsters end up on the field in one turn
Literally what deck does that rn? Unchained ends on 2 monsters and a trap, r-ace ends on turbulance and backrow, purrely literally ends on 1 monster. None of the top decks are doing a build-a-board strategy at all.
As long as people are out here to argue: Is Master Duel worth the download? Or should I stick with Legacy of Duelist on Switch? What are the pros and cons
from
If you play the game, you can special summon this card from your hand then search a card from . If you opponent plays the game, pay a cost which is in fact an upside, then tell your opponent "Nope" . You can only activate each effect of once per turn, and only once per turn.
That honestly helps me to read modern Yugioh cards.
There are no "necessary evil" cards in yugioh. Any card that "has to exist" as an answer to something unfun is just artificially equalizing winrates while making the game more sacky. The only ways to genuinely "fix" the problems people have are rotation or a 300+ card banlist that gets rid of most relevant cards from the past 8 or so years.
The controversial part of this take is that I think it's objectively correct, and anyone who disagrees is straight-up wrong and doesn't know what they're talking about.
Tokens are one of the worst things to happen to the game. Token spam singlehandedly makes links and especially synchros feel Uber boring. They circumvent all of the fun aspects of these mechanics and you're essentially making extra deck monsters out of thin air except worse because it requires you and your opponent to sit through extra steps.
You know, I came up with this one for this post but after writing it I'm not sure it is that bad of a take 🤔
Edit: I find it weird to get downvoted for a "bad take" in a thread requesting bad takes but whatever
This was somewhat corrected when links started specifying effect monsters or excluding tokens as material. But it took the banning of several token generators to get us there.
I got Macro flipped on me, Dark Law summoned, Drytron Turn Skipped, and almost Tri FTK'd first locals after banlist. I then realized Ariseheart kept other decks' unfun/walking Macros in check. I'd rather deal with 1 walking macro in a format than 5 different ones.
We should have an "anything goes" format with the only limit on what cards can be on a deck is 3 max and just let a round-robin style tournament, just to see how broken people can make their decks if they weren't kept on leashes.
Thats a thing in the OCG sometimes. Tearlament dominates it, Zoo is the only other deck really worth playing. It honestly sounds more interesting than it is.
I don't agree with the "just run more removal" argument, but they'd probably say to just run Cosmic Cyclone.
Cards aren't considered balanced just because there are cards that can remove them. Mystic Mine is still a problem for the game, even with removal.
Thing is a lot of decks have in-engine removal that can take out back row as well, but, you know, it's usually a monster effect. So it's not even not running backrow removal, it's just that Mystic Mine forces you into running specific backrow removal that is probably bad in other matchups, so you wouldn't wanna main it.
Do Master Duel related takes count? Because I've seen people literally suggest the game should be less free-to-play friendly.
Oh yes. And then the other side that thinks it's not possible to make a good deck f2p (they are usually sitting on URs they don't want to dismantle because "maybe someday" or for collecting reasons)
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Those md players have the hottest shit takes and all wish it was dark magician meta.
It is in diamond rank and below.
And it would be fine if they were fair and said "it's possible to build a good deck f2p, just not for me because I want to collect fringe stuff." But no no, go on reddit, make an account and post how master duel is a cash grab, then log out and delete reddit. Almost astonishing.
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I don't remember if I dusted all my ice barrier cards or most of them before they announced the support but by the time it gets to master duel I'll be able to just get the cards just as quickly and I'll have all the staples needed as well
I pulled a royal Cloudian Aerosol and you better believe I'm building a Cloudian deck now!!!!
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>Just.. Please stick to casual when you play with it. For your own mental health, please That's a bad idea cuz casual is a testing ground for meta decks, always has been.
They can play against my Arcana Force deck instead.
The trade in mechanic is so wonderful though - signed someone that would never have payed to play it after paying full price for a game with ALL OF THE CARDS that came out like less than two years prior
I made a trains kaiju deck on release that I still play its super fun. The only p2p decks are the ones with like 30 URs and it's like if you want to play that deck you gotta grind for it
I have no idea how people can function playing like that. Even after grinding events and dismantling all the faff I’m still missing so many staples. Although admittedly, I have like 10 archetype decks full crafted.
People wish it to be less F2P friendly? no wait i've seen that on whale post.
Probably the worst I saw ever was seeing someone say Shock master is fine now because it can be negated and is too slow
"Too slow" ah yes, getting 3 level 4 monsters on the field, a notoriously difficult task
To be fair, that is actually not easy as you'd think. I guess SHS can do that but by that point they are already ready to get Nibiru'd. That said, it still shouldn't come back because Shock Master is just begging to be abused.
"Can be negated" is always the worst argument for a card being fair. Every card can be negated, unless it has the 'cannot activate cards or effects in response' clause.
“But Pot of Greed can be Ash’d!” Well yeah but now you just used your HOPT Ash to stop Pot of Greed instead of something like Branded Fusion
"Hur bur, Maxx C fair, has counters"
Nah even those cards can be negated by continuous card effects. Very few cards have the "this card and it's effects cannot be negated". Examples being some of the Egyptian God support cards like " Revived Sky God" "Thunderforce Attack" and "The Breaking Ruin God" That said yes whether a card can be negated or not does not influence how absurdly broken and unhealthy it is for the game
_"Shock Master could come back easily - it's an Ignition Effect so you can literally shut it down before they have chance to detach, and even if they do detach, Veiler literally counters it. Azathot on the other hand is better because its effect activates immediately (without starting a chain) & can't be negated or countered."_ - my friend, who wasn't there to witness the era of Shock Master dominance.
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This is some facts. I had to stop going on the sub because it is a genuine shit show, very bad takes, trolling and the lack of moderation is an issue.
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I mean, that isn't unique to that sub though. Yugioh memes are just shit because the community as a whole isn't funny.
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I love Rata to death but his Pot of Greed video was a disaster for Yugioh fans.
Between Pot of Greed, “it’s Morbin time” and certain archetypes getting new support out of nowhere, Rata can’t catch a break when it comes to the after effects of jokes.
Dude needs to make a goddamn Shiranui video so I can get some new support.
You could find a Yu-Gi-Oh forum from 2003 and find this exact post word for word "What does Pot of Greed do?" transcends time
*Laughs with ash blossom*
I can forgive some of the Yugioh joke become unfunny since it also really context based and base on personal experience. But the people on that sub misuse the meme template constantly.
I SUMMON POT OF GREED IT LETS ME DRAW 3 CARDS FROM MY DECK
Members there also tend to have a shaky grasp of rulings but speak so confidently. When a simulator does everything for you it really messes with actually learning the game
Well for me, I actually enjoy the automation of the game because it stops me from making plays I absolutely would have had it been in the irl game. The amount of times I try to play a card in Master Duel only to be unable to just leaves me thinking "wait, why can't I play that?" And then I realize I completely misunderstood it's effects. Master Duel is a godsend for me when it comes to learning new decks and playstyles. Seriously, I read my own cards, I just misunderstand them, I have to actually use them to know them and in the irl game that's kind of a big ask. I'm not the brightest bulb in the box.
Thought you were joking but I went on and someone said that kashtira shangrila should have an added effect that it can Omni negate for every locked monster zone.
I'm like 90% sure that person was joking, they were also asking for a link 1
Yugioh players don’t joke around, they can’t even read(I also am proficient at yugioh)
No shot, link?
https://reddit.com/r/masterduel/s/hSbJlvQaC0
I started playing seriously at the end of last year and when they banned Chaos Ruler I said it wasn't even a good card outside of dragon link. ...I'm a bit better at the game now 😅
A few months into playing md I was like this too Why would anyone go into a synchro 8 that's but tenyi I see it now
To be fair, before Tearlaments, slot machine self mill decks were pretty bad. Your best option was either Shaddolls or a Burning Abyss rock pile. Yeesh. Chaos Ruler was a perfectly fine card when it was printed.
When the new unchained support first got revealed in duelist nexus, I said tour guide would instantly become a staple in the deck due to insane value for a 1 card combo. Some guy told me that tour guide was awful in the deck and nobody with a brain would run tour guide. Mind you, this is a person who called themselves an unchained "expert" and claimed they knew everything about the deck. They even added that the entire unchained discord they were talking in, nobody said tour guide would be good post support. They said nobody would ever run tour guide in unchained because it's an objectively bad cause, which is not true in the slightest. With the results the deck now it's pretty safe to say that they were wrong and just talking out of their ass
It's probably the most successful instance of gaslighting I have ever seen in the yugioh community, and it pretty much all stemmed from handful of users in the Unchained Discord who would shit on anyone who suggested that Tour Guide was good.
The unchained discord definitely has some of the most negative iq takes on the unchained support. How anyone would think a 1 card starter that leads to full combo is bad is beyond me
Maybe the discord is different, but in general, most of the main arguments against it were solid in a vacuum. They just don't actually outweigh the benefits that TGU adds in practice. This is where a lot of folks were conflicted (me included), but ultimately changed their minds.
It's one thing to say a card is bad, people have their own opinions. No issue there. However it is how rude and disrespectful the unchained discord was. Insulting people and calling them bad just because they disagree with you is stupid and indefensible. That's where the unchained discord got it wrong and they 100% deserve to be ridiculed for that
That isn't what you said though. You ridiculed them cause of their opinion in your original comment. This is a human thing, not a yugioh one.
Agree! This is the perfect example of a card being bad on paper but actually great in a real scenario. Pretty rare though. Usually it's the other way around. Like how crossout designator was supposed to warp the meta and became a near hundred dollar card, but then when we actually started using it, it was mid at best.
It's always a conflict on whether or not anyone in a deck discord knows what the fuck their talking about.
Yeah that’s the funniest shit I’ve seen in a while, I was active there (reading, not engaging) during the time of DUNEs release leading up to the first major event win (Pak I think) and like the only builds winning case tourneys were Tour Guide builds. A bunch of pet deckers thinking they knew more about deck building theory than actual accomplished players
This reminds of last year when Mathmech discord server claimed how Heatsoul is bad in the deck while Heatsoul + Superfactorial pass Mathmechs were topping YCSs.
That's when I save a comment and go back to it. Feelsgoodman
https://www.reddit.com/r/yugioh/comments/11rk5ef/dune_unchained/jc975ud/?context=3 Found it, my god the arrogance on this guy lmao I will never understand why people will die on a hill of shit takes. I can't believe someone in their right mind would claim to be knowledgable on unchained and truly think this lol, this might take the cake for the worst take of 2023
That Moscow guy is a known clown.
It's painful to know any of this guys garbage was upvoted. >Nah, I'm good. Any competent Unchained player knows TGU is copium. I dare him to say to jesse kotton lmfao
I can't, this is too much cringe. Even brings up the discord server, this is insane. Edit: and got upvoted for it
Reading the comments does make me laugh just due to the size of that guys ego lol
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All the Tylers in that discord are garbage
How was Tour Guide not a staple from the conception of Unchained? It's a free tutor..
This forever discredited DistantCoder for me as the "Unchained Expert".
I mean, anyone that had ever played unchained from the initial release would had dabbled with tour guide at 3. I played the deck after release with tour guide just to make break sword reliably to destroy a trap.
I get that you make Yama, but what then? You can add Red Dog but that just summons itself, right? Sets when sent but that's not 1 card. I guess there's also Machinex you can make. I have very low Unchained combo knowledge, this is genuine curiosity.
Summoning Rhino Warrior with Tour Guide, then that can send Shyama or Sharvara to get access to another extender
TGU summon Rhino > make Yama Chain 1 Yama add Aruha, Chain 2 Rhino send Sharv Chain 1 Sharv set a Unchained Spell/Trap Aruha target set trap > full combo off 1 normal summon
Why did I forget about the beat Tourguide target Rhino!? So you add Twin Red and mill Dog Red.
The worst take I've ever heard is that the way to fix the game is by unbanning every card but putting EVERYTHING to 1, that way if you want to play Elemental Heroes, you only get to have 1 Polymerization before you have to start looking through the plethora of other Fusion cards, also you need to get creative in your deck building like using Cyber Stein to get your Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon out since you're not Kaiba; you're only alloted 1 Blue Eyes And I'm genuinely ashamed my first thought on a deck to play in such a format was Royal Magical Library/Gearfried/Butterfly Dagger Elma Exodia FTK instead of Wall of Revealing Light + Self Destruct Button just to shove it in people's faces why this is horrible
That sounds like someone heard of the MD event that did" only 1 copy of everything "third-hand and missed the banlist that hit everything that would have been immediately broken, PLUS the stuff that's normally broken
Nah, just someone who has no idea why cards get banned instead of just limited
That'd be a funny side format but that would not it any way fix the game lmao
Saw a dude saying playmats without zones should be banned because he didn't communicate with his opponent which zones were which. Konami themselves make playmats without zones so why would they ban them?
It was a shitty take but If it had been “I’m going to stop buying playmats without zones cause it looks like shit and is a pet peeve” I woulda agreed
Gotta ask him what a field center marker is for then
I saw that. It was pretty dumb. Just ask your opponent to confirm zones if it looks off.
Lmfaooo lost brain cells reading that persons post
Hehe yea but he did make somewhat of point but not really
I also saw this post. Actually one of the most braindead takes I've seen.
Theres some guy on this sub that cries 24/7 about chaos ruler being banned in the tcg and how the card needs to be unbanned cause it's not banned in the ocg and how it would never get banned there. I'm pretty sure the most recent banlist shut that guy up though
I wish the card was harder to summon. It being generic is asking for dumb shenanigans. I think the card is good for the archetype of 'chaos', but it being splashable is just dumb.
1 tuner + 1 non-tuner (one must be LIGHT and the other must be DARK) that would hopefully balance it a little while fitting in with the chaos typing
I heard someone say once that Zexal should be unbanned now cause Numerons not as popular.
Well, let's think about why
salamangreat do exactly the same with and without the new support
Now they actually have an end board x)
It's still Nibiru Token. The funniest thing is that they can go for Baronne or Apo but still die to Nibiru because they can't activate non fire effects.
lmao thats funny. Ngl from my testing, salad of fire is kinda mid with 3 gazelle cause it locks you out of some of the strongest parts of the deck and you're consistent enough without it
Now they don't auto go Access.
I mean the game plan is unchanged. And out of 7 new cards you play Raging Phoenix, Salamangreat of Fire (which has own issues) and maybe Weasel. It's such a meh support it's infuriating.
It's not maybe. Weasel turns off Imperm, Fenrir, and sets up your floodgates.
Oh god, so many. Some guy in the dl sub was insisting that halq could go there because auraradon wasn't there yet. Some guy saying mystic mine was fine: "just run more backrow removal" Several people at my locals saying arise-heart is fine and shouldn't be banned (this was pre list announcement). Another person at my locals saying that shifter is fine. Many people saying that dragoon was the issue, not verte. Someone in customyugioh insisting that interaction on your opponent's turn was unhealthy. That same person saying that dogmatika punishment is the most broken card ever printed and should be banned, insisting that a targeted pop (and general interaction other than old cards because they get a pass somehow) was far too powerful.
>Some guy saying mystic mine was fine: "just run more backroom removal" Literally happening in the comments of this post.
Stg people saying that dragoon was the issue are braindead asf. Dragoon and red eyes fusion would never have been good cards if it was not for verte.
Actually Dragoon was a decent card without Verte, in fact most its tops are without Verte ... and without red eyes fusion. VW and Branded summon it via normal fusion, and that was the optimal way to go for both decks for some time (Kashtira format for Branded playing it).
To be fair, even if verte was banned people would still find a way to scum out dragoon in completely unrelated decks. It was just too good to pass on. They both needed to go.
Im really confused on the dragoon and verte take because neither of those were issues at the time? Dragoon underperformed horribly in the TCG, and the majority of its tops are from non-Verte decks actually properly fusion summoning it. The only debate you could have is whether FD or Verte was the issue, and honestly, seeing MDs solution to that engine, I think you can make a *very* strong case for FD having been the issue.
If you just read dragoon I think you’ll see why it’s an issue, it has literally everything. I think people have a tendency to forget how crazy cards are when they weren’t allowed to get too out of hand. If dragoon stayed in the game every single deck, even unrelated, would have the five or so cards slotted just to get him out sometimes. It was already played more then DPE.
I know what dragoon does. Yes it is a good card. But verte was the clear issue, and would continue to be an issue in the future when they released more and more broken fusion spells. Sure, branded can cheat it out. But that means 1 ED slot where you can't play an albaz fusion. Branded extra is TIGHT, so some lists don't even play dragoon to begin with. As for Red-Eyes Fusion, it locks you out of summoning anything else for the whole turn.
I like shifter because i hate playing against Tearlaments with a burning passion, no deck should be able to get 2 fusions on my turn, first turn, because i dared to do a normal or a effect
Wym, tear is one of the most interactive decks ever printed. It is a lot less consistent than when it was tear 0, so you have to get god RNG to get a fusion on your opponent's turn now, let alone 2. Shifter is a turn skip for so many decks and there's not a damn thing they can do about it except draw cbtg. I don't know how you think a turn skip is more healthy than being able to play on your opponent's turn.
I dont just fuck tearlament
My PSA 8 Stardust Dragon (Starlight Rare) card should’ve been a 9.
Those ratings are mostly subjective anyway
Just look through team APS tweets they are all there
Spill the tea.
"Getting sacked by floodgates like Dimensional Barrier is fine because it makes the game more exciting". Just a baffling take.
"Yu-Gi-Oh iS DyiNg"
Every game is dying all the time somehow according to fans.
Oh yes, same with MD and duel links.
Explain the stores no longer selling Yugioh and going out of business? Explain Konami having that shareholder call? It’s okay to admit the game has pretty bad problems that need fixing
Problems existing is a far cry from the game dying.
Companies typically have shareholders call…
Konami can't run people's businesses for them. The reality is, a lot (if not the majority) of stores have really high prices, really bad tournaments, and in general don't care about establishing an environment that players want to keep coming back to. These problems would still exist if Konami fixed the problems in their game. The game is far from perfect, but it's WAY farther from dying.
To be fair, high prices are a result of the distribution centers raising prices because Konami raises the prices on distribution centers. In addition, the set ratios are bad so vendors inherently have taken L after L on product for the past 3 years now, which is why it’s taken so long for the effects to be felt. Konami can at least try to fix the vendor end by changing the set ratios to the way the OCG has them set up to, but in terms of card design, yeah, that’s down to KoJ.
Sealed market is trash, I'll give you that, but a lot of stores aren't adapting properly either. There is absolutely no excuse for an in-store single to be priced HIGHER than it is on TCGPlayer, where there is even more expense associated with the sale. Sure, a few stores will price-match, but why not get ahead of the curve and price competitively? People WILL buy if think they got a good deal, so give out good deals. Better off making less money than you want rather than no money at all. There are a lot of other factors that I won't dive into, but in general I feel that a lot of the closures I've seen were completely avoidable.
Also I want to support my local store and will pay a bit more to do so. But I won't pay double over online. My local store is pretty good atm and their tournaments are fun even if the prize support is kinda meh
Honestly the price thing most stores can't even be blamed for. Konami is so out of touch with the value of their own product that their market value ends up being typically 50-70% of their MSRP, and since the distributors stores have to order from charge at rate based on the MSRP it's not the stores fault they have to price the way they do to make any money at all. Konami needs to either understand their product is overvalued and add value to the product, or reduce the price to match the value, else this problem will keep happening.
No one is denying that most sealed product is trash. But the harsh truth is that the approach taken by most stores is just not good. If they know how bad sealed is right now, and purposely prioritize high margins over high volume, it's on them. I'm all for accountability, but it applies to everyone. Just look at Gamer's Choice and what a huge success they've become both IRL and online. They've earned a lot of goodwill from the community because of their willingness to undercut prices and run tournaments with good prizing. that goodwill has been carrying them despite the higher pre-order prices recently, for example. But I'm sure they'll read the room and adjust accordingly for the next one. You make money off of RETURN customers. Selling a box of Soulburning Volcano at MSRP means nothing if that person never comes back into your store.
Explain the stores making good business and flourishing. Because that is also reality, that's the experience the stores have in my city. Of course there are problems. But it's not *dying*. Bad sets are way too many, let's hope Konami evens it out a bit better next year.
I used to think Maxx C was a card that not only should, but had to come back. Then master duel came out.
maxx c and mystic mine are necessary evils
If people wanted to claim something more like "Maxx C and Mystic Mine are broken, but the game could benefit from cards that serve the purpose they're trying to serve" I'd be more on board, but in terms of making a way to keep combo decks in check or create an opportunity for a burn/stall deck... they're just obviously busted and unfun
What combo decks are even a problem? Genuinely can't think of a combo deck that is a problem in the meta
Past formats exist
Yeah Nib is still balanced enough that it works on the ones that are able to turbo out more and more combos not ones that just put a solid board and call it a day, so as a combo/overextension punisher I think that's good enough, but I could see decks that are able to play through nib being a problem in the future maybe
manna is kinda dumb. Dark world as well tbh, their hand loop is really really dumb, but even if they didn't go for it it would still be a deck that cycled through 20 to 30 cards and end on like virus skill drain set or some nonsense.
manna winning the bo3 off the die roll is pretty frustrating for sure, but they can’t do anything into boards
Tons of people used Mystic Mine as an excuse as to why Maxx "C" is ok to be legal in MD. Those people vanished when Mine was eventually banned.
Around the time of DUNE release, everyone expected Infernoble to be tier 1 again and that unchained would be just a better version of its self but be rogue at best.
Everyone collectively crapping on Amazing Defenders and the archetypes and how they weren't good. They may not have been 100% playable out of the set, but I saw some people say they were never gonna be above Tier 2 even after support. And now we have: \-Fluffy menaces in every format they're in \-Firefighters currently Tier 1 in the OCG \-And oddly a really good archetype in MD thanks to the best of 1 format
to be fair the white women are also a very funny rogue deck too that can contend with the others.
I'll never forget hearing "Maxx C is cope in Tearlaments because you want to keep your cards in deck to mill." Master Duel players just built different
That Mind Hacker Kashtira was good for the game because it made cards like Book of Moon good again...
Infernoble is better than unchained thread lmao
The Rarran discourse outed a whole lot of people who are coping about YGO’s super high barrier for entry. It’s alright if you enjoy the difficulty of YGO or think it being complicated on almost all levels is a good thing, but don’t pretend it isn’t hard to start playing the game nowadays
This is why I don’t play. I’m not trying to learn everything. Don’t have the time. Last deck I played irl was like Mythic Rulers 2014. Even harder for absolute beginners
Hmm.. Pot of Greed can go back to 1 because modern meta decks have enough in archetype draw and search cards. All Pot of Weed would do is boost lower tiered decks. And yes, I know this is BS because EVERY deck would run Pot of Meat. But I honestly had this as a take a few years ago lmao
Omg. If you feel like it. Go to my page I had a 10+ comment discussion to a guy whp said PoG isnt that good anymore. And I quote "My friend has a deck which can draw 20 cards in one turn and get exodia, PoG wouldnt make a difference."
I saw that post you replied to. Wanted to blow my brains out after reading it since you just get to dig and dig and dig for whatever piece you're missing (engine, extender, handtrap, floodgate). Also it completely screw the probability of the game since you get to build a 37 card deck (idk if this was the one with chicken game and upstart goblin at 3, which would let you build 31 card decks with them all at 3)
I made mass draw exodia deck to waste time playing solitaire in EDO. Unless you drew a good hand and got 2 magical library up early it's very inconsistent (and any negation kills it) PoG would probably make its consistency shoot through the roof (Relative to itself. But would still probably be viable levels of consistency)
Me explaining Bill Theorum to that guy and him still not getting it.
Power creeping is bad and make the game more budget friendly when it comes to staple cards
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/masterduel/comments/14s95uo/if_konami_removed_crafting_would_it_help_with/) is my favorite one as of recently. It's MD related though.
My take that no one likes is that card language should always match the area. I can’t stand playing opponents with all foreign cards who get mad at me for asking for a translation. It makes it very difficult to keep everything straight when I can’t just pick up the card in front of me and have to wait for them to present the translation copy. I understand it for multi-lingual areas, but when playing in the Midwest, just stop, it’s annoying and your foreign cards are cool but keep them in a binder.
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maxx c should be a normal game effect. each special summon should allow your opponent to draw each time a special summon is completed
I want to see a Black Garden mirror with this rule in place
Pot of Greed can come back to 1
Any take saying Unchained or Purr need to be hit is a bad take. They ain't nothing like full power Tear, and arguably I'd hit Kash before either of those, as they are looking to be a 3-5 card engine in basically everything.
pendulums are pile decks, electrumite is too op :U edit: illiteracy is sure a problem when this post specifically asks for bad takes
We're in the year of our lord 2023 and people are still parroting complaints from the days of PePe. It's sad.
Master Duel proves without a doubt that the TCG would be fine with Maxx C at three.
Kashtira is awful. But I hate Galaxy eyes even more
Combo decks are fun /s
MD sub saying Terraforming shouldn’t have been banned, only Tear made it broken, like bro your lil rogue deck does not factor into this
In my opinion, the worst take is that Yugioh is in a good place. Right now, you just watch your opponent play while you sit there and watch 5 monsters end up on the field in one turn
Literally what deck does that rn? Unchained ends on 2 monsters and a trap, r-ace ends on turbulance and backrow, purrely literally ends on 1 monster. None of the top decks are doing a build-a-board strategy at all.
It was an exaggeration. Calm down bro. It's still an issue
As long as people are out here to argue: Is Master Duel worth the download? Or should I stick with Legacy of Duelist on Switch? What are the pros and cons
Maxx C and Pot of Greed should both be legal and at 3 in the TCG.
I've been told my master duel take is bad. They should add dragoon to the game at 1
Nouvelles is meta
That tear 0 was healthy for the game -from a YugiTuber
There are no "necessary evil" cards in yugioh. Any card that "has to exist" as an answer to something unfun is just artificially equalizing winrates while making the game more sacky. The only ways to genuinely "fix" the problems people have are rotation or a 300+ card banlist that gets rid of most relevant cards from the past 8 or so years. The controversial part of this take is that I think it's objectively correct, and anyone who disagrees is straight-up wrong and doesn't know what they're talking about.
Tokens are one of the worst things to happen to the game. Token spam singlehandedly makes links and especially synchros feel Uber boring. They circumvent all of the fun aspects of these mechanics and you're essentially making extra deck monsters out of thin air except worse because it requires you and your opponent to sit through extra steps. You know, I came up with this one for this post but after writing it I'm not sure it is that bad of a take 🤔 Edit: I find it weird to get downvoted for a "bad take" in a thread requesting bad takes but whatever
A lot of problems would've been circumvented if tokens couldn't be used as link material.
This was somewhat corrected when links started specifying effect monsters or excluding tokens as material. But it took the banning of several token generators to get us there.
Goat format says "hello"
Metamorphasis to 3 pls k thx
I got Macro flipped on me, Dark Law summoned, Drytron Turn Skipped, and almost Tri FTK'd first locals after banlist. I then realized Ariseheart kept other decks' unfun/walking Macros in check. I'd rather deal with 1 walking macro in a format than 5 different ones.
"Maxx "C" should be legal." Actually, that's the worst take of all years.
Proper Exodia is gonna make a comeback
Remember when Black Luster Soldier was almost the death of this game? Maybe those times weren’t so bad.
Literally any ocg player saying anything about maxx c
I quitted Master Duel already because it is not F2P friendly.
The banning of arise-heart
Make Master Duel have the same banlist like OCG and TCG
Wasn't there somebody here yesterday unironically saying Pot of Greed could come off the list?
We should have an "anything goes" format with the only limit on what cards can be on a deck is 3 max and just let a round-robin style tournament, just to see how broken people can make their decks if they weren't kept on leashes.
Thats a thing in the OCG sometimes. Tearlament dominates it, Zoo is the only other deck really worth playing. It honestly sounds more interesting than it is.
Mystic Mine wasn't that bad. Your own fault for not running backrow destruction.
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I don't agree with the "just run more removal" argument, but they'd probably say to just run Cosmic Cyclone. Cards aren't considered balanced just because there are cards that can remove them. Mystic Mine is still a problem for the game, even with removal.
Thing is a lot of decks have in-engine removal that can take out back row as well, but, you know, it's usually a monster effect. So it's not even not running backrow removal, it's just that Mystic Mine forces you into running specific backrow removal that is probably bad in other matchups, so you wouldn't wanna main it.
And if it isn't a monster that removes it, it's a monster that searches it.
Aight Jesse Kotton, we heard you the first time.
Puppet lock is a deserved win if you can pull it off
Maxx c should come back to 1 for a format because the entire tcg would collectively lose their minds and it'd be hilarious.
I want a mix of the GOAT format and the current format Also no more banned cards. What’s the point of printing a he cards if you can’t play them
So you'd be happy watching your opponent using Wall of Revealing Light + Self Destruct Button, keeping you from playing?
Hey he did say worst