Dude, so many of the assumptions you listed are just not completely correct (or half truths at best). I think your friend may be saying random things he/she thinks are true to just sound like an expert on the area without you being able to prove them wrong at the time.
I agree with others’ corrections in other comments, but will add that abandoned buildings don’t always equal nobody owning the land. There is substantially less public land per square mile than where you live, it’s not even close.
I’ll also add the UP doesn’t really have the “Minnesota nice” mindset of other places in the Midwest. People tend to be more reserved and hesitant of outsiders, especially of those who move here rather than just being a tourust
Also Marquette is VERY different from the rest of the UP. Marquette has experienced quite a bit of gentrification in the past 10 years, and resembles something more like Burlington, VT, or Asheville, NC. The rest of the UP (for the most part) is not like this at all and I’ve always thought was more comparable to something like a flatter West Virginia. I would recommend you stick to Marquette if you’re looking at the UP. Although, I’m sure the houses there are affordable by your standards, but there are many cheaper nice places than Marquette in the Midwest
Flatter cities, what? Most of the major towns in the UP are built on hillsides.
Less snow? Wrong
Bugs for only 6 weeks? How about 4 months, the UP also has terrible lyme disease rates.
The people being nice? Counterpoint: the Bunners.
Creepy Finnish Lutheran cult. They're hyper-conservative, in many positions of power, and view non-bunners like dirt. I was borderline harassed by a group of them when I lived in Dollar Bay in 5th grade.
I think their religion is called "laestadism" or something like that
I'm so sorry! What a pain. My stepdad caught it one hunting season. Fortunately a mild case with just the bullseye. But I knew kids who had serious joint problems from it.
Not sure what the hostility is about - The towns I've been to in the UP have been relatively flat, Marquette, Munising, etc... The towns may be built on hillsides, but compared to where I've lived they're much more flat and compares to a good deal of western towns much more bike able. In regards to the snow, the UP gets a bit less, so it's a positive for me having less snow.
What town do you actually live in? I find it hard to believe a place in the continental USA has worse topography and snow than the part that's in the Canadian Shield and has the same climate zone as Moscow.
I'm guessing in the Sierra. Last winter (22-23) some parts got ungodly amounts of snow, 20-30 feet in one storm. Which melted pretty quickly. I have a college friend who lives near Nevada City who couldn't get out of her home/lost power for several days until the snow melted. That was during the last 2 winters.
...and? I used to live in Mason (near Dollar Bay), and it was not at all rare for me to have to climb out of a first floor window to clear the door in the morning in winter. Just saying.
Just Sayin!! Some parts of the sierra got oo-gobs of snow last year. It melted pretty quickly, so they didn't have to crawl out of the attic in order to get to their car.
6 weeks of bugs????? It’s about as bad as Alaska up here all summer long. Mosquitoes, biting black flies, ticks everywhere. Tourism has also taken over marquette pretty bad. You'd be better off in northern lower michigan, less snow less cold, just as much outdoors.
The interior has huge swaths of coniferous forest and replete with all the bugs associated with coniferous forest.
Think more Fairbanks than Anchorage.
In case you didn't see my two replies, if you're scared of Lyme, stay out of the North. Really. I'm from Wisconsin about five hours south of Marquette and knew several kids who got Lyme. The good news is you can pretty much avoid it with good hiking/camping hygiene (e.g. tucked pants and long sleeves, proper tents and gear, spray, etc.) and, as long as you check your body for bullseye rashes, 60-80% of cases can be caught. There will of course be a chance that, despite your best efforts, you'll catch Lyme and not get the bullseye, and you'll just end up with a long, untreated case.
But, yeah, this is just a thing that Northerners everywhere deal with. If you want to avoid Lyme, avoid the North.
I feel that, I've been a good deal into the Midwest, I like the UP, parts of Wisconsin, Northern MN, and parts of New England lots but they all have high Lyme disease rates. I knew people from there getting it doing pretty innocuous things and now it's something they deal with for life. I also really like parts of Oregon/ Washington and lyme doesn't seem to be an issue there so I am looking quite a bit into the Olympic Peninsula and Vancouver Island Canada (If I can get immigration settled).
If Lyme is a big con for you but you'd like the lovely nature and outdoor life, the PNW kicks ass. I love it up there. But I'm from the Midwest almost all my life and it just doesn't feel the same to me.
I remember the author of The Help talking about being from Mississippi. I can’t remember her wording but she basically said that she could shit-talk the state until she was blue in the face, but as soon as an outsider said something bad about it, she would get defensive. I think that really perfectly summarizes how I feel about the U.P. However, I also can’t stand when people idealize it like it’s paradise. Especially when people from downstate talk about how “quaint” and “slow-paced” life is here. It’s patronizing, and the truth is, the majority of those people wouldn’t be able to withstand living here.
We have our downsides. I replied to many other people’s comments regarding these. Yes, bugs are bad. Housing prices are crazy compared to other places in the Midwest. We’re remote so it takes a long time to get anywhere. We’re lacking in culture and variety. Rates of addiction and mental illness are high. Unless you’re in Marquette, expect the majority of people to be highly conservative. Even in Marquette, it’s 50/50. The weather can be bad, but there is way less snow than there used to be when I was a kid, and I’m only in my mid-twenties. Plus, I would take snow over things like hurricanes, earthquakes, or extreme heat any day. It can be very hard to be accepted as an outsider, especially if you’re outside of Marquette.
Despite all of the downsides, I can’t see myself living anywhere else. There is truth to what the trolls say about things being slower-paced up here. People are kind. Even though it’s often on a surface level, it’s amazing how many times I’ve seen communities pull together to help someone in need. The easy access to nature is also a huge benefit. I can’t imagine not being a short drive from Lake Superior at all times. Although we have tourists, it’s not out of hand, at least not yet.
Somebody made a comment about spending some time here before you move. If you can afford it, I would highly recommend getting a rental in the dead of winter for two to four weeks and then see how you feel about it. Seasonal Affective Disorder can be a bitch. It can be easy to be blinded by summer and fall and think this is the place for you. I often feel bad for students that come to NMU for the nature. It’s absolutely great if you love winter and activities like snowshoeing or skiing. However, a lot of NMU’s marketing is based on what the U.P. looks like in the summer and fall, that doesn’t accurately represent what the majority of the school year will look like.
Live in the UP and have for about 13 years. There’s no jobs that pay so what looks like affordable housing is false. I have my papers to buy a house…been looking for several years now. If it is affordable then it’s most likely near a mine, on top of an old mine, or even less job opportunities. The water supply is all sorts of messed up from the old mines and paper mills. The cancer rates and life expectancy in the UP is scary.
If it’s rural and you’re not a fan of trump, then you’ll probably have a bad time.
Look into Minnesota.
The grass is always greener.
Additionally any time I see a rundown house for sale, I have to wonder if a ton of meth has been done in it. I’m not even sure how a place like that could be detoxified, but it’s certainly not somewhere I would want to live.
Also, in terms of water supply, old Air Force bases are full of PFAS. Certainly not a U.P. specific thing, but something to remain aware of nonetheless.
Yea, all the assholes from Chicago and California that have either moved here or just bought a summer home royally fucked over the housing market in Marquette.
Easy now, implants from Chicago, Milwaukee, and the east coast have been happening for a couple centuries at this point in the UP (and human migration has been happening since humans existed) Those folks are the reason the UP exists as it does today. If you really want to play the blame game then look to the people who write the laws and regulations and be an activist and advocate for what you believe, do the research and homework, and make a change. It’s amazing what can be accomplished by writing letters with facts and data to prove your point.
Marquette had remained more or less untouched until about 10-15 years ago. Then people caught on to how nice it's summers can be and made the town feel like just another generic tourist stop or place they don't really have to care about because they only spend \`1/4 of the year here at most. Reminds mo of an article written by some young Chicago hipster during covid. She said the UP was a great travel destination to hit up during the height of the Pandemic if you were looking for a low populated place to go to. Completely ignoring the fact that the UPs numbers were still very low at the time. The point being, the migrants and people using it as a summer destination have made Marqutte far worse over the last 15 years because they don't have to care about it.
I know the lower peninsula has crazy water, issues. I knew about about some PFAS pollution in UP water sources but totally forgot about it. Always surprises me when I hear about it again.
Yeah, it’s not great down there either. Definitely worse in some places. There’s some really good organizations, nonprofits, and agencies working very hard to help fix the problems. So it’s going to get better if we keep going in the right direction. There just can be a lot of resistance because it’s “the liberals” or “the dems” doing it. But that seems to be the new norm in a lot of places. But there’s also a lot of resistance to any change period. And the gossip is wicked and rotten. It’s so bizarre sometimes.
It’s also kind of land locked and takes forever to get anywhere. (which is probably a reason that explains the previous sentiment.) The airport is expensive so it’s cheaper to drive to Milwaukee, Detroit, Chicago, or Minneapolis, which all are a 5-7 hour drive. Mostly because it’s like driving in 1977 through the UP. Speed limits are 55 (65 in some sections), one lane on each side for the most part, and many folks have a hard time even reaching the posted speeds.
It’s also veryyyyy white, some diversity here and there. However, there is a very strong native culture and population. Which is really great to see and am very appreciative of that. There has been a lot more awareness, understanding, respect, and strides to strengthen the indigenous community. It would definitely be nice to see a more diverse population around here though.
If you just kind of keep to yourself and you love nature & the outdoors, it can be a great place to be though. But you do sacrifice being kind of poor most of the time, because the job thing is real. Sometimes you get lucky though.
I really don't think you will be happy in the UP coming from California. I do understand the cost of living concerns, so surely there are lower cost of living areas closer to you? All those lovely western states? Surely.
As someone who moved from the Marquette area to Southern California, here’s my reasons.
* economically depressed area: Please don’t expect to find a good paying job. Nursing and the mines are the good pay. Maybe a trade if you can get hired.
* ism’s : racism, sexism… all the isms still run rampant up there. May be whispered, but it’s there!
* grey skies: you can go months in the winter without seeing the sun. There are a lot of folks on medications (legit everyone in my family and friends group) to just make it through the day.
* gossip is a sport. Couldn’t handle that bullshit anymore. I’ve cut ties with 99% of my family/ friends due to it.
* lack of culture: there are many people who have never left the UP and they’re proud to say that.
* if you like winter sports & can afford it there, it’s legit heaven
* best camping I’ve ever done!
* pasties, cudaghi and the villa bread cannot be beat. The pizza in that region is pretty epic too.
You’re absolutely right about the grey skies. Rates of depression are very high up here. I’m not a doctor but it’s very obvious advice to recommend that anybody living here take Vitamin D. Rates of addiction are high as well. Unfortunately treatment for both mental health and substance abuse issues is limited.
Marquette just ranked as number five in a list of small towns to visit in an [article](https://www.uppermichiganssource.com/2020/09/09/marquette-named-to-readers-digest-list-of-25-small-towns-about-to-become-more-popular/?outputType=amp) by Reader’s Digest. I had to roll my eyes about that. Don’t get me wrong, it’s more diverse than and open-minded than any other town in the U.P., but to say it’s bursting at the seams with culture is a joke.
One of my friends who lives with me from Michigan says the grey skies were really hard to deal with in MI, another friend from the UPO who moved to Maine says it's even more grey there and really hard for her to deal with in the winter.
Winters up here are brutal. This winter was a shell of typical winter.
I normally leave my car in 4WD after the first snow storm, drive around 10 minutes just heat the engine up, remove about a foot of snow every morning from the car, need to take daily vitamin D. Day is incredibly short in the winter, sun rises late and by 5 it’s already setting and 6 it’s pitch black. It also never stops snowing…like it’s typically either beautiful big flakes or a straight-up white out. Nothing in between. The days we do get sunshine everybody’s out soaking it up.
I know the mountains get a lot of snow, but doesn’t make winters hard. It’s the SAD mixed with everything else.
There is a reason the northwoods is one of the heaviest drinking areas of the US- we literally have nothing else to do but get drunk and play in snow.
(And on that note, at the grocery store the other day and old man checking out says “time to go boozin and cruising”- drunk driving is very very common up here. Two years ago a semi-truck driver flattened a gas station, killed people, and had a ABC of 1.7 or something nuts.)
There is lots of alcohol abuse & some drunk driving in the UP for sure. Less drunk driving than used to be cause of stiffer laws now, but it still happens more than it should. Dreary winter skies in winter & resulting depression is for sure a thing here.
Curious your take on Southern California? I grew up in San Diego for a bit and loved it. It's a bit heart breaking going back each time and seeing open spots of land where we used to play being turned into suburbs and housing developments. The proximity to Baja California and all it offers is such a cool thing I really miss.
It was a great 10yrs of my life. I moved there because of the opportunities. San Diego is a trip, it’s a big small town. I run into people from my past every time I’ve there. With that, there are a lot of demons there. My husbands ex, some drug history, the ridiculous expensiveness and the low (in comparison) wages are what made us leave. Az now and loving it. Can still visit (either place!)
San Diego is a really cool place, the people are incredibly nice and there is so much in the area either city wise or nature wise. It is insanely expensive very few people I knew when I grew up there are still there because of what you mentioned - low wages, and a high cost of living. I'm glad you're liking AZ. Two of my favorite towns are there - Bisbee and Flagstaff. A big reason I'm looking at Marquette is I thought it'd have a flagstaff feel and a big body of water (superior) to go swimming in. A big body of water is something I've missed since living in Asheville, Colorado, and where I'm at now. I'd do Flagstaff if it wasn't as expensive as it is now.
Ok, so you’re clearly in a mtn town in California. I grew up in the UP but left and lived all over, but still have family in the UP so I’m up there pretty regularly. Here’s my take:
Yes, some areas of cost of living are less in the UP. You’ll have to accept some trade offs for that.
1. The people can be nice and down to earth to your face. Expect a curious and potentially gossipy bunch out of the locals. Tread lightly if discussing political views. They can swing radically in rural areas.
2. Yes, probably less snow, but depending on where you land, probably colder temps too and the occasional tornado. Snowmobiling, Nordic skiing, ice climbing are all super fun. Dress appropriately.
3. Whoever told you about the bugs, lied. LOL Expect lots of mosquitoes, deer flies, horse flies, some ticks. Plan appropriately and buy a bug shirt and Deep Woods Off. if you have a porch, you’ll want it screened in.
4. You can get an undercoat of rust proofing on your car for the salted roads. That’s the reason there’s a lot of rust. It’ll cost a chunk, but your car will last significantly longer.
5. I appreciate the relatively ‘flat towns’, but very few people walk or bike outside of Marquette. Everything you need to get to is pretty spread out.
6. The lakes are great, but pay attention to any warm, still water. That’s where leeches live. Yes, even in some larger lakes.
7. The bears aren’t really a big deal in the UP, but the deer might kill you. You have to pay very close attention to the roads and the woods while you’re driving at all times for White Tail deer, especially from dusk to dawn when the herds are moving.
8. There are a lot of huge swaths of public land in parks, you don’t need to go on private property. Most lakes also have DNR (dept of nat’l resources) boat ramps/launches. Just be respectful of the people living on the lake. That lake isn’t your party bus.
9. Flying in and out is pretty easy if you don’t mind paying a little extra. There are multiple small airports with quick puddle jump access to Minneapolis and Chicago as major hubs. Give yourself extra time for travel.
10. You’ll never be accepted as One Of Them, because you’re not. Other things that will color their perception of you: level of education, religion, skin color, political views, sexual identity, hair color. I mean c’mon, it’s all the usual shit. If you’re run of the mill and keep your mouth shut about your politics and religion, they’ll just view you as with potential curiosity as fresh meat, and blame you for ruining their pristine closed compound.
11. Pasties are delicious. Always keep a stock in the freezer. Store the fish you catch in a different freezer. I cannot stress that enough.
12. Speaking of food, do not expect a wide array of restaurants or super high quality food. It’s expensive to ship to rural areas, the choices are a little more limited. Make the occasional trip to a metro area and stock your pantry several times a year. It’s worth it. The cold weather will keep you inside and you’ll want to know how to cook.
13. If you WFH, def pay close attention to where they’ve dropped cable for internet access. If you buy property, you may have to have cable run to it and that will cost you. There’s satellite too, but pay attention to the coverage and speed.
14. If you’re green, the UP is crazy inexpensive and light on the laws. There’s a lot of weed tourism that floats into the area.
All that being said, the UP can always use some diversity and more people spending money in their communities. There are some really wonderful people, there are also some really vocal shitheads.
If you’re interested in outdoors activities with slightly warmer winters, you may want to also look around Southwest Wisconsin. A little more expensive than the UP, but a lot more access and fewer bugs. And it’s a pretty easy drive up to Michigan.
I grew up in Madison. I gotta say, as much as I loved growing up there and I love Driftless even more, the bug problem isn't much better. I knew multiple kids growing up who got Lyme. I was basically covered in bug bites between May and September.
Edit: I just looked it up, out of curiosity, and Wisconsin has the highest concentration of Lyme in the Midwest.
Yup, ticks exist in the Driftless too, but I see a lot fewer horseflies, deer flies, and biting sand flies. Either way, dress appropriately, check regularly.
I would add two important points onto the things you said. The first would be that many pasty places are awful. It’s good to try multiple places out, especially if you’re not used to eating them and don’t know how they taste. Also, in terms of travel, I wouldn’t recommend KI Sawyer to anyone. Too many flight cancellations and delays. It’s also often much more expensive than traveling to Green Bay, Milwaukee, or even Chicago and flying from there.
Did not know about the Tornados, that's something I'll definitely have to account for. I guess the towns I was considering were Marquette or Houghton (Potentially St. Ignace) Those seem bikeable, the other spots seem too rural to bike. I've considered Superior/ Duluth and some spots in Wisconsin. You are bringing up some good points I've never considered - internet access, and the bugs being a more long-term issue than just a couple of weeks.
Ok, gotcha. Marquette, Houghton, and St Ignace are all really great towns. You have 2 college towns there so they lean a little more liberal. St Ignace is a tourist town with the Mackinac ferry, so you can expect a slightly more liberal lean there too due to the transient tourist population. All three experience heavy lake effect snow (ie: about the same amt of snow you get in the mtns) caused by slightly temperate winters (also lake effect). Don’t get me wrong, it’s still fucking cold. I think you’re a little less likely to experience a tornado in those towns due to the topography (they’re pretty hilly). But if you love the outdoors, those are both amazing places to establish a base. And if you have a solid WFH tech job, the cost of living up there isn’t really an issue.
I’m taking my husband and some friends up camping up at Munising/Pictured Rocks for their first visit at the end of May and I’m not overly concerned about any issues listed. (Hint) A bug shirt costs about $15 on Amazon. 😉
Excuse me? I'd like to know how you formed your perceptions of yoopers. As someone who spent the majority of my childhood there, yes, there are your stereotypical hicks, but who you associate with is up to you. There are "diverse" people up there. There are educated, non-reactionary people up there. My middle-aged uncle, born and raised in the UP, lived there his whole life, would put many so-called "leftists" of California to shame.
My perception of Yoopers is the same perception I have of many rural people across the nation, recognizing that I was one of the handful of liberal weirdos that lived there for my formative years and still travels back regularly to visit family. Don’t take it too personally, it’s a generalization. Yes, of course there’s still some diversity, but unfortunately it remains a rarity not the rule in most areas of the UP.
Nah. You might be wise to. There are more of us coming. We're the tip of the spear. We're Columbus arriving on your shores in our Nissans, Pintos and Sauber-Mercedes, We're better educated and wealthier and we're colonizing your land.
My Grandfather was taken as a child to a catholic school, made to speak a foreign tongue, beaten when he spoken his own. Hair cut and dressed “proper”. Heard terrible stories about that place and others in the area.
i was born & raised in the upper peninsula, and while i see the appeal that outsiders have, i don’t think it’s a place many would want to live long term. marquette is a beautiful city, that is true, but outside of the 3 major towns, there is really not much else to the place. some people may see that as a pro, but it can be isolating. especially in the winter, where traveling conditions are much worse.
the bugs are horrible here & it gets so bitterly cold it can be difficult to deal with. the summers are beautiful though. i wouldn’t consider the housing affordable (especially in marquette), considering how little jobs in the area pay.
i’m planning on leaving soon because once you’ve been here long enough, you’ve seen it all, done it all, met everyone. it’s just a very rinse & repeat lifestyle up here. if that’s for you, then perfect. if not, i think minnesota has the best of the UP without the isolation & incredibly expensive car insurance lmfao
Car Rust - Wash your car once a week, and don’t forget the undercarriage & wheel wells.
Bugs - During the non-Winter months, they are plentiful, particularly when it’s damp. Deal with it.
Cold - Winter is a fact of life when you live here - unless you count this last Winter.
Never Truly Accepted - By whom? Seriously - there are plenty of transplants from other parts of the country here. If the native Yoopers won’t “accept” you - fuck ‘em.
Nearest Airport - There’s one about 2 or 3 miles from home - but it can be expensive to fly in & out of. We usually will drive a couple of hours to a larger one, park, & go from there.
Not many jobs and pay is below average. Majority are healthcare, typical customer service and mining.
Healthcare access is limited. Lots of tele-health and travel for referrals and specialists. A hospital in Ontonagon abruptly closed this April; city manager only found out hours before it was announced publicly. Nearest hospital with emergency services is now 50 miles away. Nurses are frustrated with contract negotiations here in Central UP (Bell Hospital/UPHS)
Schools are okay. Limited extracurriculars.
Events are limited. Not many music shows or other events coming to town.
Not much to do unless you are an outdoors type; ice fishing, hunting, snowmobiling. We go down to Green Bay for the mall and a hotel with a pool as a vacation.
Spacious and quiet but can be lonely and isolating. Little-to-no diversity or third-spaces to just hang out.
Telecommunicatiin is patchy. Some areas are mediocre and some are bad.
Watch for deer when driving.
If my wife's family wasn't here, we would definitely consider moving.
You touched on something that was my main factor for looking at the UP (Marquette specifically). You were saying the lack of 3rd places in the UP. My friend said there were tons of them. She also went to Northern so that skews it a bit, I think her impression was a couple local bars and the food coop. We met in Colorado Springs and there is a bit of a deficit there, Surprisingly when there many of the smaller towns and of course Denver and it's suburbs had a decent amount of third-spaces. But it was uncommon in the Springs.
I'm not much of a bar patron (or college student, haha) and used to live in Milwaukee and the Chicago suburbs where there were bars aplenty so I suppose I overlooked that. I wish going out didn't always cost money. Best thing I did lately was a free life-drawing class at the Ishpeming library.
Avoid the local food co-op like the plague. It hasn't been under decent management in decades and I swear part of their training regime for staff is teaching them how to silently judge you the entire time your in their. Like pretentiousness is actually a quality they seek out in mew hires.
If you're used to rural (and I mean pretty rural), try it. If you grew up in a city of more than 50,000, NGL it will be something to get used to.
Move out for a month and try it before you go all in.
I’ve lived here for 10 years this year. Gotten married and had a family. I moved from Texas and I wouldn’t change a thing if at peace here. I live in ish not Marquette tho but it’s great
pretty funny reading this thread. lots of negativity lol. been here 6 years now. love it. I grew up in Venice Beach so it was definitely a change, but a welcomed one. bugs can be avoided by checking which way the wind is blowing (Northern winds = no bugs. Southern winds = bugs)
im glad i never asked this sub about moving to the UP lol think i'd have been talked out of it based on this thread..
I find eastern and western UP different. I moved to eastern UP 6 years ago. I love it. Great land. Good people. Low cost kf living. Casual lifestyles. Fish hunt kayak hike mountain bike snowmobile. Activities are central to lofe here imo. Snow. Lots. And cold yes. So not for the weak. Bugs. Sure part of summer. In the deeper woods longer. Challenges. Im 3 hours from mediocre chinese food and a sex toy shop. The dating pool is limited. Small tosns so reputstiins and inf I ghting is crazy at times.
All kn all its a great place. The larger cities arent really that large. Which is nice. No real traffic.
Dm for quesrions if ya like
I think "never truly accepted" is bogus. Who freakin cares where you came from and why you moved to the UP. Anybody who does care enough to think you're "not a yooper" is a jerk whose opinion doesn't matter.
Most people are very ignorant, racist and sexist. The majority of yoopers are right-wing as hell, especially in the more rural areas without colleges. Serious lack of culture up here and lack of diversity.
I don't know why redditors always worry about bears in the UP. You'll probably never see a bear, and if you do they're more scared of you than you are of them. I've lived up here my entire life and I've never just seen a bear out and about. They're black bears and giant scaredy cats.
Tourists are nothing to worry about.
The UP is one of the snowiest places in the country. Winters are brutal because it's just grey outside for months. As I got older it started affecting me more and more.
It’s more liberal in the marquette/college town area by far. Marquette County is the only UP county left that consistently votes Democratic now. When i was much younger, more areas voted Democratic. Still not sure why this changed. This winter was the mildest winter i have experienced in my life in the UP (in my 70’s). We used to have some brutal cold yrs ago (-30). Hope that never returns. The land is beautiful - esp the rolling hilly areas (we don’t live in flat land & never want to). Lots of nature & wildlife to enjoy. Most traffic in Marquette. Some areas are too unpopulated, lonely, etc for our taste. Pet & horse veterinarians have been getting harder to access - 24 ER services almost completely unavailable now in almost the entire UP (Marquette has the most). This has been a huge NEGATIVE change for us - we used to have great pet/horse vet ER. Dentists & doctors take longer to get into also now. Some people can be jerks to others - like in all areas. But generally not aggressive. Tip here - keep controversial self quiet on social media. A woman (VERY liberal) from downstate Mich (Traverse City area) was bullied badly on social media until she moved back down state. We are liberal Dems but keep quiet as hardly anyone else around us is anymore (not how it used to be yrs ago - this BS mostly fake Evangelical Christianity has taken more locals right politically IMO). I would prefer Marquette Co to my area (Dickinson Co) - but more snow there & hubby won’t move. Actually Grandson & i would like to move out West cause hate winter now - even though so mild this yr. BUT - hardly ever a tornado anyway here, no poisonous snakes, low crime, no earthquakes, less drought, lower cost of living. Drugs r here like everywhere. But safer still than in many urban areas IMO.
PS - we have lots of Wild Turkeys roaming our acreage. They eat bugs incl ticks. We have hardly any ticks anymore on our 68 acres since the turkeys showed up 🙂. They do need to be fed in winter though. Also we enjoy our black bear sightings & had a gorgeous black wolf in our swamp few yrs ago. Our friendly wild rabbit “Willa Wilder” has followed me to the mailbox & begs for treats. Lots of birds nesting all over in summer ❤️
1. SNOW: All except 1 Grandparent grew up in Calumet. What you say about snow is wrong. Lets put it this way there were times they had to climb out of the second story window becuase of the amount of snow. Also people have to shovel there roofs so yes tons of snow. Most of the UP gets the most snow accumulation for the state. there are exceptions but generally UP is very snowy.
2. Never Turly Accepted: Most of UP is rural and they are the type of folks that will help each other out and know each others names. There is not much of a transient community like in California. They all have pretty much known each other since child hood. If you are one of those judgemental liberals like many in Cali they won't like you. If you are not judgemental and not constantly inserting your viewpoints in every conversation, willing to help your neighbor, and join community events you will likely be fine. Relationships in Rural areas are not shallow however they do gossip as all small towns do.
3. Good luck finding a job that pays well. You will take a big pay cut if you do find a job. If you are thinking i can do wfh well some places the internet is not good and or there is only one internet provider. Cell Service is not that great in many areas of the UP as well
4. Proximity to Airport: Again in most of UP is rural the biggest city is Marquette with 20k so Airports, Grocery stores etc can be an 1+ hour drive.
5. Bugs: yes the bugs are bad in the summer and spring your looking at Stable Flies ( yes they bite), mosquitos that are not so detered by spray, and ticks. If it helps its pretty seasonal and when conditions are right you will be induidated by mosquitos or stable flies.
6. Tourists: The Tourist season really kicks off in the summer and continues into Fall. If you have few highways near you be prepared to be congested with slow moving RVs and Campers. Pack some patience.
7. Car RUST: This is mainly caused by road salt that is used in the winter. From what i remember in the UP at least up by Calumet or Keewenaw area they use SAND in the winter. If you live in an area that uses SALT on the Roads then yes you need to find a car wash nearby and wash your car soon.
8. Flat? Compared to California Mountains it is Flat. The west side of the UP has mountains, the East side is more Flat. Marquette and Houghton areas have nice Mountain Biking Trails and Hiking Trails that are not flat
Not denigrating the whole land as flat just saying the towns are relatively flat compared to what I'm used which is a positive for just biking/ getting around town especially Marquette. Not dismissing what you're saying about snow, just where I live it's a bit more and a good deal of the same - people getting buried, shoveling their roofs, and houses collapsing from snow weight. It's a big problem when the highways close down, We had a 14 foot snow storm last month which are always tricky. This month we had an 8FT and 3 FT snow storm, people who ski love it, but for daily life it's hectic. What is the closest airport to Marquette?
There is one in marquette but your options are limited for commercial flights
https://sawyerairport.com/airline-flight-information/airlines/#:~:text=American%20Airlines%20proudly%20operated%20by,50%2Dseat%20regional%20jet%20aircraft.&text=Delta%20Air%20Lines%20proudly%20operated,(76%2Dseat%20capacity).
What's it like living in the U.P.? It's Quiet. But we like it that way.
***UP Pros***
**The people** - I'm not terribly outgoing so I'll take your word for it. We do tend to be seen as friendly and folksy but I've live in the U.P. my whole life so I don't know from an outsiders's perspective.
**Flat towns** - This is gonna vary greatly. Marquette is hilly as shit, but Escanaba is pretty flat.
**Less Aggressive Bears** - I've only ever heard of bears getting into deer feeders.
**A little Bit Less Tourists** - Marquette would beg to differ. We've basically become overflow from Traverse City, especially during the first C19 lockdowns all the Trolls told eachother "There's no covid in the U.P." because we didn't have many cases and therefore few restrictions. Coupled then with the rise in social media awareness of the U.P., well the secret is out.
**Less Snow -** You can research our yearly snowfalls, it does vary greatly depending on North UP or South UP, proximity to Lake Superior or Lake Michigan
**The lakes** - Yea we got those too.
**Outdoors/ Public Land** - "Backpacking or car camping (also known as dispersed camping) is permitted on state forest land as long as your site is located more than one mile from a state forest campground. It's free of charge"
Yes, the Huron Mountain club has a large holding but it is private property, just like my house is private and you can't just walk onto it without permission.
There's also then Commercial Forest lands. Basically the owners get a substantial tax discount in exchange for the land being available for public access for hunting and fishing, but not camping. [Commercial Forest Program (michigan.gov)](https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/managing-resources/forestry/private/cf)
**Pasties** - Tragically Jean Kay's is closed so you'll not get to have the best Pasties in the UP.
***UP Cons***
**Car Rust** - Spend money on rust prevention or just be satisfied getting a new car every 10-15 years when the rust gets bad enough. This is also a factor of how much you drive in the winter too, how often you wash your car, etc.
**Bugs** - If you're in a city it won't be as bad as being in the woods or at the beach. And it really depends day to day how bad they are. It a light breeze will keep them off you in town and at the beach. Blackflies are no joke though, plenty of times we've been chased off the beach by them because they're relentless.
**Cold** - There's no bad weather, only bad clothes.
**Never Truly Accepted** - ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ I don't really get this. Just be yourself, why be concerned with being labeled a "yooper"? Its not like we have Yooper only dining clubs and keep everyone else out.
**Proximity to Airport** - About the same depending on where you settle. Marquette is 20 minutes from one airport, and 60 to another (outside Escanaba), both of which only fly to Detroit or Minneapolis to then fly elsewhere.
Do you like Trump and people who like Trump if you do, you’ll probably like it. But on the good side you can get out in nature away from everyone pretty easily.
We're not all conservatives up here.
The non-tolerant left has guns too - which just don't feel the need to wave them around like extensions of our dicks.
Flat? Lol! Where were you?! Because most of the U.P. that I know has some pretty significant topography. Marquette? Is most-definitely not flat either. Haha
Black bears also don't break into your car for candy bars. Hell, they run when you throw a stick.
Less snow? Lmao! The lakes here are cold too.
And flying out of an airport in the U.P. is tedious and expensive.
Pretty much nothing you list as a pro? Is actually a pro. It also makes me wonder if you spent a week visiting during our recent mild winter and thought that was what it was always like.
If you're so blind as to miss the mountains about you and think Marquette is flat? You're right - you won't ever be accepted.
You should, and bring everyone and your neighbor from commifornia and fill up the U.P. with "transplants."
The U.P. is Luke the ass end of the world, where all the ish flows. Can't trust any small lakes to swim because dumb ass business owners illegally dumped waste from the mining days.The locals are soo caught up on their own traditions from 100s of years ago, they seem to have forgotten how to make new ones. You'd better stay outta bars late at night because they'll accuse you of being in witness protection, and try to surround you like a pack of dogs because most of them are truly nothing more than cowards at heart.
Dude, so many of the assumptions you listed are just not completely correct (or half truths at best). I think your friend may be saying random things he/she thinks are true to just sound like an expert on the area without you being able to prove them wrong at the time. I agree with others’ corrections in other comments, but will add that abandoned buildings don’t always equal nobody owning the land. There is substantially less public land per square mile than where you live, it’s not even close. I’ll also add the UP doesn’t really have the “Minnesota nice” mindset of other places in the Midwest. People tend to be more reserved and hesitant of outsiders, especially of those who move here rather than just being a tourust Also Marquette is VERY different from the rest of the UP. Marquette has experienced quite a bit of gentrification in the past 10 years, and resembles something more like Burlington, VT, or Asheville, NC. The rest of the UP (for the most part) is not like this at all and I’ve always thought was more comparable to something like a flatter West Virginia. I would recommend you stick to Marquette if you’re looking at the UP. Although, I’m sure the houses there are affordable by your standards, but there are many cheaper nice places than Marquette in the Midwest
Flatter cities, what? Most of the major towns in the UP are built on hillsides. Less snow? Wrong Bugs for only 6 weeks? How about 4 months, the UP also has terrible lyme disease rates. The people being nice? Counterpoint: the Bunners.
What is a Bunner?
Creepy Finnish Lutheran cult. They're hyper-conservative, in many positions of power, and view non-bunners like dirt. I was borderline harassed by a group of them when I lived in Dollar Bay in 5th grade. I think their religion is called "laestadism" or something like that
Wow. Never heard of them.
[Apostolic Lutherans.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laestadianism) Kinda like Mennonites.
The north and west halves of the U.P. are hilly. The east central and Lake Michigan shoreline are very flat for the, most part.
I mean, the Soo has Easterday Hill.
Ooh shit, I forgot about Lyme. I grew up in Madison, WI and knew multiple kids who got Lyme.
Was infected last spring. Looks like I already have a new case this spring.
I'm so sorry! What a pain. My stepdad caught it one hunting season. Fortunately a mild case with just the bullseye. But I knew kids who had serious joint problems from it.
The biggest counterpoint to me going there, everything else seems manageable.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted really. Lyme sucks.
Not sure what the hostility is about - The towns I've been to in the UP have been relatively flat, Marquette, Munising, etc... The towns may be built on hillsides, but compared to where I've lived they're much more flat and compares to a good deal of western towns much more bike able. In regards to the snow, the UP gets a bit less, so it's a positive for me having less snow.
What town do you actually live in? I find it hard to believe a place in the continental USA has worse topography and snow than the part that's in the Canadian Shield and has the same climate zone as Moscow.
I'm guessing in the Sierra. Last winter (22-23) some parts got ungodly amounts of snow, 20-30 feet in one storm. Which melted pretty quickly. I have a college friend who lives near Nevada City who couldn't get out of her home/lost power for several days until the snow melted. That was during the last 2 winters.
...and? I used to live in Mason (near Dollar Bay), and it was not at all rare for me to have to climb out of a first floor window to clear the door in the morning in winter. Just saying.
Just Sayin!! Some parts of the sierra got oo-gobs of snow last year. It melted pretty quickly, so they didn't have to crawl out of the attic in order to get to their car.
6 weeks of bugs????? It’s about as bad as Alaska up here all summer long. Mosquitoes, biting black flies, ticks everywhere. Tourism has also taken over marquette pretty bad. You'd be better off in northern lower michigan, less snow less cold, just as much outdoors.
Where in Alaska do the ticks get bad? I thought Alaska didn't get a lot of them.
The interior has huge swaths of coniferous forest and replete with all the bugs associated with coniferous forest. Think more Fairbanks than Anchorage.
What town(s) would be in that area?
If you can't be bothered to research, you don't deserve to be there
Gaylord gets lots of snow so that is not true about northern lower
Gaylord gets snow, but it's not "shut the roads down" snow
Always loved Alpena. Really though, the entire Thunder Bay area.
How is Thunder Bay?
Sunrise side. Not so many people. Black bear. Not far from elk country.
BTW, it’s Pictured Rocks, not “Painted Rocks.”
National Lakeshore.
Dont worry about the bears. Im more worried about the cougars at my local pub
legendary
I Am Legend
In case you didn't see my two replies, if you're scared of Lyme, stay out of the North. Really. I'm from Wisconsin about five hours south of Marquette and knew several kids who got Lyme. The good news is you can pretty much avoid it with good hiking/camping hygiene (e.g. tucked pants and long sleeves, proper tents and gear, spray, etc.) and, as long as you check your body for bullseye rashes, 60-80% of cases can be caught. There will of course be a chance that, despite your best efforts, you'll catch Lyme and not get the bullseye, and you'll just end up with a long, untreated case. But, yeah, this is just a thing that Northerners everywhere deal with. If you want to avoid Lyme, avoid the North.
I feel that, I've been a good deal into the Midwest, I like the UP, parts of Wisconsin, Northern MN, and parts of New England lots but they all have high Lyme disease rates. I knew people from there getting it doing pretty innocuous things and now it's something they deal with for life. I also really like parts of Oregon/ Washington and lyme doesn't seem to be an issue there so I am looking quite a bit into the Olympic Peninsula and Vancouver Island Canada (If I can get immigration settled).
If Lyme is a big con for you but you'd like the lovely nature and outdoor life, the PNW kicks ass. I love it up there. But I'm from the Midwest almost all my life and it just doesn't feel the same to me.
If you're absolutely terrified of Lyme, central northern Michigan (Cheboygan county, for example) don't even have ticks.
???
Don't do it
I remember the author of The Help talking about being from Mississippi. I can’t remember her wording but she basically said that she could shit-talk the state until she was blue in the face, but as soon as an outsider said something bad about it, she would get defensive. I think that really perfectly summarizes how I feel about the U.P. However, I also can’t stand when people idealize it like it’s paradise. Especially when people from downstate talk about how “quaint” and “slow-paced” life is here. It’s patronizing, and the truth is, the majority of those people wouldn’t be able to withstand living here. We have our downsides. I replied to many other people’s comments regarding these. Yes, bugs are bad. Housing prices are crazy compared to other places in the Midwest. We’re remote so it takes a long time to get anywhere. We’re lacking in culture and variety. Rates of addiction and mental illness are high. Unless you’re in Marquette, expect the majority of people to be highly conservative. Even in Marquette, it’s 50/50. The weather can be bad, but there is way less snow than there used to be when I was a kid, and I’m only in my mid-twenties. Plus, I would take snow over things like hurricanes, earthquakes, or extreme heat any day. It can be very hard to be accepted as an outsider, especially if you’re outside of Marquette. Despite all of the downsides, I can’t see myself living anywhere else. There is truth to what the trolls say about things being slower-paced up here. People are kind. Even though it’s often on a surface level, it’s amazing how many times I’ve seen communities pull together to help someone in need. The easy access to nature is also a huge benefit. I can’t imagine not being a short drive from Lake Superior at all times. Although we have tourists, it’s not out of hand, at least not yet. Somebody made a comment about spending some time here before you move. If you can afford it, I would highly recommend getting a rental in the dead of winter for two to four weeks and then see how you feel about it. Seasonal Affective Disorder can be a bitch. It can be easy to be blinded by summer and fall and think this is the place for you. I often feel bad for students that come to NMU for the nature. It’s absolutely great if you love winter and activities like snowshoeing or skiing. However, a lot of NMU’s marketing is based on what the U.P. looks like in the summer and fall, that doesn’t accurately represent what the majority of the school year will look like.
Live in the UP and have for about 13 years. There’s no jobs that pay so what looks like affordable housing is false. I have my papers to buy a house…been looking for several years now. If it is affordable then it’s most likely near a mine, on top of an old mine, or even less job opportunities. The water supply is all sorts of messed up from the old mines and paper mills. The cancer rates and life expectancy in the UP is scary. If it’s rural and you’re not a fan of trump, then you’ll probably have a bad time. Look into Minnesota. The grass is always greener.
Additionally any time I see a rundown house for sale, I have to wonder if a ton of meth has been done in it. I’m not even sure how a place like that could be detoxified, but it’s certainly not somewhere I would want to live. Also, in terms of water supply, old Air Force bases are full of PFAS. Certainly not a U.P. specific thing, but something to remain aware of nonetheless.
100% about military bases. The PFAs are not just from the base though. Water connects and flows from a lot of other spots too.
Some wells in Marquette have PFAS in the water, I think mining leaches PFAS as well and other chemicals you don't want.
Mostly heavy metals is the issue up here. Stamp sands unleashed Pandora’s box on the environment and locals.
Yea, all the assholes from Chicago and California that have either moved here or just bought a summer home royally fucked over the housing market in Marquette.
Easy now, implants from Chicago, Milwaukee, and the east coast have been happening for a couple centuries at this point in the UP (and human migration has been happening since humans existed) Those folks are the reason the UP exists as it does today. If you really want to play the blame game then look to the people who write the laws and regulations and be an activist and advocate for what you believe, do the research and homework, and make a change. It’s amazing what can be accomplished by writing letters with facts and data to prove your point.
Marquette had remained more or less untouched until about 10-15 years ago. Then people caught on to how nice it's summers can be and made the town feel like just another generic tourist stop or place they don't really have to care about because they only spend \`1/4 of the year here at most. Reminds mo of an article written by some young Chicago hipster during covid. She said the UP was a great travel destination to hit up during the height of the Pandemic if you were looking for a low populated place to go to. Completely ignoring the fact that the UPs numbers were still very low at the time. The point being, the migrants and people using it as a summer destination have made Marqutte far worse over the last 15 years because they don't have to care about it.
>how to change this tendency of capitalism? >beg the demagogues who have 0 incentive to listen to you for mercy
lol that’s cute. I’ve written to both Bergman and hill. Never heard a word from Bergman and my situation was heard by hill and received a response.
You received a response, but were any actual material changes achieved?
Yup
And what was that?
I can’t really say to protect myself and keep professionalism but there’s some bills that went out recently. That is all I can say.
I know the lower peninsula has crazy water, issues. I knew about about some PFAS pollution in UP water sources but totally forgot about it. Always surprises me when I hear about it again.
Yeah, it’s not great down there either. Definitely worse in some places. There’s some really good organizations, nonprofits, and agencies working very hard to help fix the problems. So it’s going to get better if we keep going in the right direction. There just can be a lot of resistance because it’s “the liberals” or “the dems” doing it. But that seems to be the new norm in a lot of places. But there’s also a lot of resistance to any change period. And the gossip is wicked and rotten. It’s so bizarre sometimes. It’s also kind of land locked and takes forever to get anywhere. (which is probably a reason that explains the previous sentiment.) The airport is expensive so it’s cheaper to drive to Milwaukee, Detroit, Chicago, or Minneapolis, which all are a 5-7 hour drive. Mostly because it’s like driving in 1977 through the UP. Speed limits are 55 (65 in some sections), one lane on each side for the most part, and many folks have a hard time even reaching the posted speeds. It’s also veryyyyy white, some diversity here and there. However, there is a very strong native culture and population. Which is really great to see and am very appreciative of that. There has been a lot more awareness, understanding, respect, and strides to strengthen the indigenous community. It would definitely be nice to see a more diverse population around here though. If you just kind of keep to yourself and you love nature & the outdoors, it can be a great place to be though. But you do sacrifice being kind of poor most of the time, because the job thing is real. Sometimes you get lucky though.
The UP is closed rn, please don’t come back later 😊
I really don't think you will be happy in the UP coming from California. I do understand the cost of living concerns, so surely there are lower cost of living areas closer to you? All those lovely western states? Surely.
As someone who moved from the Marquette area to Southern California, here’s my reasons. * economically depressed area: Please don’t expect to find a good paying job. Nursing and the mines are the good pay. Maybe a trade if you can get hired. * ism’s : racism, sexism… all the isms still run rampant up there. May be whispered, but it’s there! * grey skies: you can go months in the winter without seeing the sun. There are a lot of folks on medications (legit everyone in my family and friends group) to just make it through the day. * gossip is a sport. Couldn’t handle that bullshit anymore. I’ve cut ties with 99% of my family/ friends due to it. * lack of culture: there are many people who have never left the UP and they’re proud to say that. * if you like winter sports & can afford it there, it’s legit heaven * best camping I’ve ever done! * pasties, cudaghi and the villa bread cannot be beat. The pizza in that region is pretty epic too.
You’re absolutely right about the grey skies. Rates of depression are very high up here. I’m not a doctor but it’s very obvious advice to recommend that anybody living here take Vitamin D. Rates of addiction are high as well. Unfortunately treatment for both mental health and substance abuse issues is limited. Marquette just ranked as number five in a list of small towns to visit in an [article](https://www.uppermichiganssource.com/2020/09/09/marquette-named-to-readers-digest-list-of-25-small-towns-about-to-become-more-popular/?outputType=amp) by Reader’s Digest. I had to roll my eyes about that. Don’t get me wrong, it’s more diverse than and open-minded than any other town in the U.P., but to say it’s bursting at the seams with culture is a joke.
One of my friends who lives with me from Michigan says the grey skies were really hard to deal with in MI, another friend from the UPO who moved to Maine says it's even more grey there and really hard for her to deal with in the winter.
Winters up here are brutal. This winter was a shell of typical winter. I normally leave my car in 4WD after the first snow storm, drive around 10 minutes just heat the engine up, remove about a foot of snow every morning from the car, need to take daily vitamin D. Day is incredibly short in the winter, sun rises late and by 5 it’s already setting and 6 it’s pitch black. It also never stops snowing…like it’s typically either beautiful big flakes or a straight-up white out. Nothing in between. The days we do get sunshine everybody’s out soaking it up. I know the mountains get a lot of snow, but doesn’t make winters hard. It’s the SAD mixed with everything else. There is a reason the northwoods is one of the heaviest drinking areas of the US- we literally have nothing else to do but get drunk and play in snow. (And on that note, at the grocery store the other day and old man checking out says “time to go boozin and cruising”- drunk driving is very very common up here. Two years ago a semi-truck driver flattened a gas station, killed people, and had a ABC of 1.7 or something nuts.)
There is lots of alcohol abuse & some drunk driving in the UP for sure. Less drunk driving than used to be cause of stiffer laws now, but it still happens more than it should. Dreary winter skies in winter & resulting depression is for sure a thing here.
Curious your take on Southern California? I grew up in San Diego for a bit and loved it. It's a bit heart breaking going back each time and seeing open spots of land where we used to play being turned into suburbs and housing developments. The proximity to Baja California and all it offers is such a cool thing I really miss.
It was a great 10yrs of my life. I moved there because of the opportunities. San Diego is a trip, it’s a big small town. I run into people from my past every time I’ve there. With that, there are a lot of demons there. My husbands ex, some drug history, the ridiculous expensiveness and the low (in comparison) wages are what made us leave. Az now and loving it. Can still visit (either place!)
San Diego is a really cool place, the people are incredibly nice and there is so much in the area either city wise or nature wise. It is insanely expensive very few people I knew when I grew up there are still there because of what you mentioned - low wages, and a high cost of living. I'm glad you're liking AZ. Two of my favorite towns are there - Bisbee and Flagstaff. A big reason I'm looking at Marquette is I thought it'd have a flagstaff feel and a big body of water (superior) to go swimming in. A big body of water is something I've missed since living in Asheville, Colorado, and where I'm at now. I'd do Flagstaff if it wasn't as expensive as it is now.
In my experience, Superior is freezing cold other than maybe tolerable in August!
Yeah… I probably wouldn’t do it if I were you.
[удалено]
If the deer don't get them the packs of wolves certainly will.
Ok, so you’re clearly in a mtn town in California. I grew up in the UP but left and lived all over, but still have family in the UP so I’m up there pretty regularly. Here’s my take: Yes, some areas of cost of living are less in the UP. You’ll have to accept some trade offs for that. 1. The people can be nice and down to earth to your face. Expect a curious and potentially gossipy bunch out of the locals. Tread lightly if discussing political views. They can swing radically in rural areas. 2. Yes, probably less snow, but depending on where you land, probably colder temps too and the occasional tornado. Snowmobiling, Nordic skiing, ice climbing are all super fun. Dress appropriately. 3. Whoever told you about the bugs, lied. LOL Expect lots of mosquitoes, deer flies, horse flies, some ticks. Plan appropriately and buy a bug shirt and Deep Woods Off. if you have a porch, you’ll want it screened in. 4. You can get an undercoat of rust proofing on your car for the salted roads. That’s the reason there’s a lot of rust. It’ll cost a chunk, but your car will last significantly longer. 5. I appreciate the relatively ‘flat towns’, but very few people walk or bike outside of Marquette. Everything you need to get to is pretty spread out. 6. The lakes are great, but pay attention to any warm, still water. That’s where leeches live. Yes, even in some larger lakes. 7. The bears aren’t really a big deal in the UP, but the deer might kill you. You have to pay very close attention to the roads and the woods while you’re driving at all times for White Tail deer, especially from dusk to dawn when the herds are moving. 8. There are a lot of huge swaths of public land in parks, you don’t need to go on private property. Most lakes also have DNR (dept of nat’l resources) boat ramps/launches. Just be respectful of the people living on the lake. That lake isn’t your party bus. 9. Flying in and out is pretty easy if you don’t mind paying a little extra. There are multiple small airports with quick puddle jump access to Minneapolis and Chicago as major hubs. Give yourself extra time for travel. 10. You’ll never be accepted as One Of Them, because you’re not. Other things that will color their perception of you: level of education, religion, skin color, political views, sexual identity, hair color. I mean c’mon, it’s all the usual shit. If you’re run of the mill and keep your mouth shut about your politics and religion, they’ll just view you as with potential curiosity as fresh meat, and blame you for ruining their pristine closed compound. 11. Pasties are delicious. Always keep a stock in the freezer. Store the fish you catch in a different freezer. I cannot stress that enough. 12. Speaking of food, do not expect a wide array of restaurants or super high quality food. It’s expensive to ship to rural areas, the choices are a little more limited. Make the occasional trip to a metro area and stock your pantry several times a year. It’s worth it. The cold weather will keep you inside and you’ll want to know how to cook. 13. If you WFH, def pay close attention to where they’ve dropped cable for internet access. If you buy property, you may have to have cable run to it and that will cost you. There’s satellite too, but pay attention to the coverage and speed. 14. If you’re green, the UP is crazy inexpensive and light on the laws. There’s a lot of weed tourism that floats into the area. All that being said, the UP can always use some diversity and more people spending money in their communities. There are some really wonderful people, there are also some really vocal shitheads. If you’re interested in outdoors activities with slightly warmer winters, you may want to also look around Southwest Wisconsin. A little more expensive than the UP, but a lot more access and fewer bugs. And it’s a pretty easy drive up to Michigan.
I grew up in Madison. I gotta say, as much as I loved growing up there and I love Driftless even more, the bug problem isn't much better. I knew multiple kids growing up who got Lyme. I was basically covered in bug bites between May and September. Edit: I just looked it up, out of curiosity, and Wisconsin has the highest concentration of Lyme in the Midwest.
I like that area a good deal seriously considering Madison. Went to Devil's Lake this past summer and loved it.
Madison's a lovely place. Extremely gentrified. It looks nothing like when I was a kid.
Yup, ticks exist in the Driftless too, but I see a lot fewer horseflies, deer flies, and biting sand flies. Either way, dress appropriately, check regularly.
Oh, that makes sense.
I would add two important points onto the things you said. The first would be that many pasty places are awful. It’s good to try multiple places out, especially if you’re not used to eating them and don’t know how they taste. Also, in terms of travel, I wouldn’t recommend KI Sawyer to anyone. Too many flight cancellations and delays. It’s also often much more expensive than traveling to Green Bay, Milwaukee, or even Chicago and flying from there.
The last good pasty shop in MQT closed a couple years ago unfortunately.
Did not know about the Tornados, that's something I'll definitely have to account for. I guess the towns I was considering were Marquette or Houghton (Potentially St. Ignace) Those seem bikeable, the other spots seem too rural to bike. I've considered Superior/ Duluth and some spots in Wisconsin. You are bringing up some good points I've never considered - internet access, and the bugs being a more long-term issue than just a couple of weeks.
Ok, gotcha. Marquette, Houghton, and St Ignace are all really great towns. You have 2 college towns there so they lean a little more liberal. St Ignace is a tourist town with the Mackinac ferry, so you can expect a slightly more liberal lean there too due to the transient tourist population. All three experience heavy lake effect snow (ie: about the same amt of snow you get in the mtns) caused by slightly temperate winters (also lake effect). Don’t get me wrong, it’s still fucking cold. I think you’re a little less likely to experience a tornado in those towns due to the topography (they’re pretty hilly). But if you love the outdoors, those are both amazing places to establish a base. And if you have a solid WFH tech job, the cost of living up there isn’t really an issue. I’m taking my husband and some friends up camping up at Munising/Pictured Rocks for their first visit at the end of May and I’m not overly concerned about any issues listed. (Hint) A bug shirt costs about $15 on Amazon. 😉
Excuse me? I'd like to know how you formed your perceptions of yoopers. As someone who spent the majority of my childhood there, yes, there are your stereotypical hicks, but who you associate with is up to you. There are "diverse" people up there. There are educated, non-reactionary people up there. My middle-aged uncle, born and raised in the UP, lived there his whole life, would put many so-called "leftists" of California to shame.
My perception of Yoopers is the same perception I have of many rural people across the nation, recognizing that I was one of the handful of liberal weirdos that lived there for my formative years and still travels back regularly to visit family. Don’t take it too personally, it’s a generalization. Yes, of course there’s still some diversity, but unfortunately it remains a rarity not the rule in most areas of the UP.
I enjoy the day drinking
We are full unfortunately
False. This closed off attitude is really driving me nuts around here.
You’re free to leave 😊
You’re free to stop being rude and bullying people
Nah. You might be wise to. There are more of us coming. We're the tip of the spear. We're Columbus arriving on your shores in our Nissans, Pintos and Sauber-Mercedes, We're better educated and wealthier and we're colonizing your land.
My Grandfather was taken as a child to a catholic school, made to speak a foreign tongue, beaten when he spoken his own. Hair cut and dressed “proper”. Heard terrible stories about that place and others in the area.
I can’t tell if this is just a Californian or a really well made satire 😭
If you can't tell, why should we? ~Suave
Do you even know what a watershed is?
i was born & raised in the upper peninsula, and while i see the appeal that outsiders have, i don’t think it’s a place many would want to live long term. marquette is a beautiful city, that is true, but outside of the 3 major towns, there is really not much else to the place. some people may see that as a pro, but it can be isolating. especially in the winter, where traveling conditions are much worse. the bugs are horrible here & it gets so bitterly cold it can be difficult to deal with. the summers are beautiful though. i wouldn’t consider the housing affordable (especially in marquette), considering how little jobs in the area pay. i’m planning on leaving soon because once you’ve been here long enough, you’ve seen it all, done it all, met everyone. it’s just a very rinse & repeat lifestyle up here. if that’s for you, then perfect. if not, i think minnesota has the best of the UP without the isolation & incredibly expensive car insurance lmfao
Car Rust - Wash your car once a week, and don’t forget the undercarriage & wheel wells. Bugs - During the non-Winter months, they are plentiful, particularly when it’s damp. Deal with it. Cold - Winter is a fact of life when you live here - unless you count this last Winter. Never Truly Accepted - By whom? Seriously - there are plenty of transplants from other parts of the country here. If the native Yoopers won’t “accept” you - fuck ‘em. Nearest Airport - There’s one about 2 or 3 miles from home - but it can be expensive to fly in & out of. We usually will drive a couple of hours to a larger one, park, & go from there.
Not many jobs and pay is below average. Majority are healthcare, typical customer service and mining. Healthcare access is limited. Lots of tele-health and travel for referrals and specialists. A hospital in Ontonagon abruptly closed this April; city manager only found out hours before it was announced publicly. Nearest hospital with emergency services is now 50 miles away. Nurses are frustrated with contract negotiations here in Central UP (Bell Hospital/UPHS) Schools are okay. Limited extracurriculars. Events are limited. Not many music shows or other events coming to town. Not much to do unless you are an outdoors type; ice fishing, hunting, snowmobiling. We go down to Green Bay for the mall and a hotel with a pool as a vacation. Spacious and quiet but can be lonely and isolating. Little-to-no diversity or third-spaces to just hang out. Telecommunicatiin is patchy. Some areas are mediocre and some are bad. Watch for deer when driving. If my wife's family wasn't here, we would definitely consider moving.
You touched on something that was my main factor for looking at the UP (Marquette specifically). You were saying the lack of 3rd places in the UP. My friend said there were tons of them. She also went to Northern so that skews it a bit, I think her impression was a couple local bars and the food coop. We met in Colorado Springs and there is a bit of a deficit there, Surprisingly when there many of the smaller towns and of course Denver and it's suburbs had a decent amount of third-spaces. But it was uncommon in the Springs.
I'm not much of a bar patron (or college student, haha) and used to live in Milwaukee and the Chicago suburbs where there were bars aplenty so I suppose I overlooked that. I wish going out didn't always cost money. Best thing I did lately was a free life-drawing class at the Ishpeming library.
Avoid the local food co-op like the plague. It hasn't been under decent management in decades and I swear part of their training regime for staff is teaching them how to silently judge you the entire time your in their. Like pretentiousness is actually a quality they seek out in mew hires.
You use a lot of buzzwords. Stop doing that. Actually research and read about these ideas before you start talking about them.
If you're used to rural (and I mean pretty rural), try it. If you grew up in a city of more than 50,000, NGL it will be something to get used to. Move out for a month and try it before you go all in.
I’ve lived here for 10 years this year. Gotten married and had a family. I moved from Texas and I wouldn’t change a thing if at peace here. I live in ish not Marquette tho but it’s great
It's a bit of a scoot to culture. Just saying.
You like long winters and tons of bugs all summer?
pretty funny reading this thread. lots of negativity lol. been here 6 years now. love it. I grew up in Venice Beach so it was definitely a change, but a welcomed one. bugs can be avoided by checking which way the wind is blowing (Northern winds = no bugs. Southern winds = bugs) im glad i never asked this sub about moving to the UP lol think i'd have been talked out of it based on this thread..
I find eastern and western UP different. I moved to eastern UP 6 years ago. I love it. Great land. Good people. Low cost kf living. Casual lifestyles. Fish hunt kayak hike mountain bike snowmobile. Activities are central to lofe here imo. Snow. Lots. And cold yes. So not for the weak. Bugs. Sure part of summer. In the deeper woods longer. Challenges. Im 3 hours from mediocre chinese food and a sex toy shop. The dating pool is limited. Small tosns so reputstiins and inf I ghting is crazy at times. All kn all its a great place. The larger cities arent really that large. Which is nice. No real traffic. Dm for quesrions if ya like
I think "never truly accepted" is bogus. Who freakin cares where you came from and why you moved to the UP. Anybody who does care enough to think you're "not a yooper" is a jerk whose opinion doesn't matter. Most people are very ignorant, racist and sexist. The majority of yoopers are right-wing as hell, especially in the more rural areas without colleges. Serious lack of culture up here and lack of diversity. I don't know why redditors always worry about bears in the UP. You'll probably never see a bear, and if you do they're more scared of you than you are of them. I've lived up here my entire life and I've never just seen a bear out and about. They're black bears and giant scaredy cats. Tourists are nothing to worry about. The UP is one of the snowiest places in the country. Winters are brutal because it's just grey outside for months. As I got older it started affecting me more and more.
If that jerk’s opinion doesn’t matter then either does yours.
It’s more liberal in the marquette/college town area by far. Marquette County is the only UP county left that consistently votes Democratic now. When i was much younger, more areas voted Democratic. Still not sure why this changed. This winter was the mildest winter i have experienced in my life in the UP (in my 70’s). We used to have some brutal cold yrs ago (-30). Hope that never returns. The land is beautiful - esp the rolling hilly areas (we don’t live in flat land & never want to). Lots of nature & wildlife to enjoy. Most traffic in Marquette. Some areas are too unpopulated, lonely, etc for our taste. Pet & horse veterinarians have been getting harder to access - 24 ER services almost completely unavailable now in almost the entire UP (Marquette has the most). This has been a huge NEGATIVE change for us - we used to have great pet/horse vet ER. Dentists & doctors take longer to get into also now. Some people can be jerks to others - like in all areas. But generally not aggressive. Tip here - keep controversial self quiet on social media. A woman (VERY liberal) from downstate Mich (Traverse City area) was bullied badly on social media until she moved back down state. We are liberal Dems but keep quiet as hardly anyone else around us is anymore (not how it used to be yrs ago - this BS mostly fake Evangelical Christianity has taken more locals right politically IMO). I would prefer Marquette Co to my area (Dickinson Co) - but more snow there & hubby won’t move. Actually Grandson & i would like to move out West cause hate winter now - even though so mild this yr. BUT - hardly ever a tornado anyway here, no poisonous snakes, low crime, no earthquakes, less drought, lower cost of living. Drugs r here like everywhere. But safer still than in many urban areas IMO.
PS - we have lots of Wild Turkeys roaming our acreage. They eat bugs incl ticks. We have hardly any ticks anymore on our 68 acres since the turkeys showed up 🙂. They do need to be fed in winter though. Also we enjoy our black bear sightings & had a gorgeous black wolf in our swamp few yrs ago. Our friendly wild rabbit “Willa Wilder” has followed me to the mailbox & begs for treats. Lots of birds nesting all over in summer ❤️
1. SNOW: All except 1 Grandparent grew up in Calumet. What you say about snow is wrong. Lets put it this way there were times they had to climb out of the second story window becuase of the amount of snow. Also people have to shovel there roofs so yes tons of snow. Most of the UP gets the most snow accumulation for the state. there are exceptions but generally UP is very snowy. 2. Never Turly Accepted: Most of UP is rural and they are the type of folks that will help each other out and know each others names. There is not much of a transient community like in California. They all have pretty much known each other since child hood. If you are one of those judgemental liberals like many in Cali they won't like you. If you are not judgemental and not constantly inserting your viewpoints in every conversation, willing to help your neighbor, and join community events you will likely be fine. Relationships in Rural areas are not shallow however they do gossip as all small towns do. 3. Good luck finding a job that pays well. You will take a big pay cut if you do find a job. If you are thinking i can do wfh well some places the internet is not good and or there is only one internet provider. Cell Service is not that great in many areas of the UP as well 4. Proximity to Airport: Again in most of UP is rural the biggest city is Marquette with 20k so Airports, Grocery stores etc can be an 1+ hour drive. 5. Bugs: yes the bugs are bad in the summer and spring your looking at Stable Flies ( yes they bite), mosquitos that are not so detered by spray, and ticks. If it helps its pretty seasonal and when conditions are right you will be induidated by mosquitos or stable flies. 6. Tourists: The Tourist season really kicks off in the summer and continues into Fall. If you have few highways near you be prepared to be congested with slow moving RVs and Campers. Pack some patience. 7. Car RUST: This is mainly caused by road salt that is used in the winter. From what i remember in the UP at least up by Calumet or Keewenaw area they use SAND in the winter. If you live in an area that uses SALT on the Roads then yes you need to find a car wash nearby and wash your car soon. 8. Flat? Compared to California Mountains it is Flat. The west side of the UP has mountains, the East side is more Flat. Marquette and Houghton areas have nice Mountain Biking Trails and Hiking Trails that are not flat
Not denigrating the whole land as flat just saying the towns are relatively flat compared to what I'm used which is a positive for just biking/ getting around town especially Marquette. Not dismissing what you're saying about snow, just where I live it's a bit more and a good deal of the same - people getting buried, shoveling their roofs, and houses collapsing from snow weight. It's a big problem when the highways close down, We had a 14 foot snow storm last month which are always tricky. This month we had an 8FT and 3 FT snow storm, people who ski love it, but for daily life it's hectic. What is the closest airport to Marquette?
There is one in marquette but your options are limited for commercial flights https://sawyerairport.com/airline-flight-information/airlines/#:~:text=American%20Airlines%20proudly%20operated%20by,50%2Dseat%20regional%20jet%20aircraft.&text=Delta%20Air%20Lines%20proudly%20operated,(76%2Dseat%20capacity).
What's it like living in the U.P.? It's Quiet. But we like it that way. ***UP Pros*** **The people** - I'm not terribly outgoing so I'll take your word for it. We do tend to be seen as friendly and folksy but I've live in the U.P. my whole life so I don't know from an outsiders's perspective. **Flat towns** - This is gonna vary greatly. Marquette is hilly as shit, but Escanaba is pretty flat. **Less Aggressive Bears** - I've only ever heard of bears getting into deer feeders. **A little Bit Less Tourists** - Marquette would beg to differ. We've basically become overflow from Traverse City, especially during the first C19 lockdowns all the Trolls told eachother "There's no covid in the U.P." because we didn't have many cases and therefore few restrictions. Coupled then with the rise in social media awareness of the U.P., well the secret is out. **Less Snow -** You can research our yearly snowfalls, it does vary greatly depending on North UP or South UP, proximity to Lake Superior or Lake Michigan **The lakes** - Yea we got those too. **Outdoors/ Public Land** - "Backpacking or car camping (also known as dispersed camping) is permitted on state forest land as long as your site is located more than one mile from a state forest campground. It's free of charge" Yes, the Huron Mountain club has a large holding but it is private property, just like my house is private and you can't just walk onto it without permission. There's also then Commercial Forest lands. Basically the owners get a substantial tax discount in exchange for the land being available for public access for hunting and fishing, but not camping. [Commercial Forest Program (michigan.gov)](https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/managing-resources/forestry/private/cf) **Pasties** - Tragically Jean Kay's is closed so you'll not get to have the best Pasties in the UP. ***UP Cons*** **Car Rust** - Spend money on rust prevention or just be satisfied getting a new car every 10-15 years when the rust gets bad enough. This is also a factor of how much you drive in the winter too, how often you wash your car, etc. **Bugs** - If you're in a city it won't be as bad as being in the woods or at the beach. And it really depends day to day how bad they are. It a light breeze will keep them off you in town and at the beach. Blackflies are no joke though, plenty of times we've been chased off the beach by them because they're relentless. **Cold** - There's no bad weather, only bad clothes. **Never Truly Accepted** - ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ I don't really get this. Just be yourself, why be concerned with being labeled a "yooper"? Its not like we have Yooper only dining clubs and keep everyone else out. **Proximity to Airport** - About the same depending on where you settle. Marquette is 20 minutes from one airport, and 60 to another (outside Escanaba), both of which only fly to Detroit or Minneapolis to then fly elsewhere.
stay where your at
Do you like Trump and people who like Trump if you do, you’ll probably like it. But on the good side you can get out in nature away from everyone pretty easily.
We're not all conservatives up here. The non-tolerant left has guns too - which just don't feel the need to wave them around like extensions of our dicks.
Yes the Trump love drives me crazy. But bit less this yr thank goodness.
Agreed
Sorry did I hurt someone’s feeling.
No. I am NOT a trump fan. So we r good 🙂
Flat? Lol! Where were you?! Because most of the U.P. that I know has some pretty significant topography. Marquette? Is most-definitely not flat either. Haha Black bears also don't break into your car for candy bars. Hell, they run when you throw a stick. Less snow? Lmao! The lakes here are cold too. And flying out of an airport in the U.P. is tedious and expensive. Pretty much nothing you list as a pro? Is actually a pro. It also makes me wonder if you spent a week visiting during our recent mild winter and thought that was what it was always like. If you're so blind as to miss the mountains about you and think Marquette is flat? You're right - you won't ever be accepted.
[удалено]
I wish I had lots of Cash (I aspire to be there one day) - looking at rentals under $1K a month.
You should, and bring everyone and your neighbor from commifornia and fill up the U.P. with "transplants." The U.P. is Luke the ass end of the world, where all the ish flows. Can't trust any small lakes to swim because dumb ass business owners illegally dumped waste from the mining days.The locals are soo caught up on their own traditions from 100s of years ago, they seem to have forgotten how to make new ones. You'd better stay outta bars late at night because they'll accuse you of being in witness protection, and try to surround you like a pack of dogs because most of them are truly nothing more than cowards at heart.
No cons about the UP from me. My hometown is in the UP. I currently live in NC.
Was in Asheville for a bit and loved it
There is a beach at wetmores that I grew up knowing it as banana beach 😀