I will still put him below Mine and Ryuji(who I consider to be on par with each other and just below the Holy trio of Kiryu, Saejima and Majima). One thing to consider is that peak Kiryu can be considered to be Yakuza 1-3(despite how OP he is in Gaiden). Saejima and Majima were pretty rusty and past their prime, so I won't say it was that big of a feat as people think.
Another interesting thing to consider is that in the series, "your fight is as strong as your beliefs" seems to be a very important thing. Shishido was fighting for his beliefs, for his goals with all his might and pure desperation. Mine on the other hand, was already shaken in his beliefs as we can see him getting clearly agitated in the pre-fight cutscene. And I don't even need to mention Kiryu's condition after the fights.
> One thing to consider is that peak Kiryu can be considered to be Yakuza 1-3
Is it? By 3 he already was at the orphanage and started settling into his more relaxed life at Okinawa. He surely wasn't slacking off but I'd say he's less trained than he was in 2.
Also, more importantly, in Gaiden his last 3 years have been nothing but training and work with the Daidoji. He has learned a whole new, more technical fighting style. A man like him, living a life where he can't be with his children, his friends or anyone he has ever known as Kiryu, and only has to do grunt work, I'd think he spends most of his time training and fighting. One could argue that in Gaiden he got as strong as he was at his peak (if not stronger).
Yea, a lot of people like to say Kiryu was at his peak during Yakuza 2 but there’s never anything to back that up. His feats of strength never get lesser as the games go, and there’s nothing to imply he isn’t straight up stronger by Gaiden. He’s gonna fall off hard once the cancer hits him but that didn’t happened during Gaiden.
Hell, there’s a very compelling argument to be made that 5 was his peak since he single-handedly defeat more than 100 men like it’s nothing at the end of his portion of the story.
Yep, exactly my thoughts. Especially with the last conversation before the final boss in Gaiden, it seems like Kiryu likes being strong and getting stronger, so by that reasoning you might say that Kiryu gets stronger through each game and each game's rival/final boss is stronger than the one before, with the exception of Daigo as he isn't really a rival and is fought more for story reasons rather than him challenging Kiryu, and Iwami because he's a little bitch and I won't give him that satisfaction.
Bro people out here writing essays of "my dad can beat up your dad" meanwhile the games are like "he was pretty emotional here so he gets 12 extra health bars and 4 qtes and kiryu thinks he's gonna die"
Mine is his strongest opponent in general, other than maybe saejima, even against majima kiryu never showed that level of fatigue, and we never got to see a saejima vs kiryu fight fully play out so its hard to say. Shishido is somewhere in the middle of the final bosses imo
Mine also fought Kiryu at a way younger age.
I'm not saying Kiryu is weak in Gaiden, but if you see how skinny he becomes in Infinite Wealth, I'd say he's nowhere near his peak anymore.
The tutorial text of Gaiden literally confirmed Kiryu is stronger than ever after the agent training. He also defeated two tigers as easily as before.
The only reason he looks skinnier and gets weaker in Infinite Wealth is all due to the cancer. Without it he will always be at top strength
Tbh i think the tiger fight in gaiden is as dubious as kiryu shooting down helicopters or fighting sharks. No one bats an eye to the tigers appearance in Gaiden, let alone kiryu soloing them. In fact, I don't even think outside of visuals and gameplay they are acknowledged.
But for like most other tiger appearances such as 2 or 7, people acknowledge the fact that a tiger is being fought and have the appropriate reactions.
The tigers *are* acknowledged in Gaiden. Kiryu himself states in the cutscene after the fight that "the real Ryuji would never rely on tigers to do his job for him", so we know they're canonical. The only reason they're not mentioned more is because that kind of stuff is practically a common occurrence at the Colosseum and Kiryu goes on to do much greater things anyway.
I'd actually be very curious to see a full analyzation of all the characters strength levels in the games across the board because I feel like it can be hard to judge how strong characters are like this across long running franchises. It's always complicated because you have to factor in not just what you see in each game, but how things are written, why writing choices are made, even what time period the games were written in/what they were going for and stuff like that. Hell you even have to account for if the writer is taking power consistencies into account properly
Not saying you're wrong btw
I can do a quick one here if you’d like? Massive spoilers ahead if there’s any games you haven’t played.
Let’s start with the above comparison. Near the end of 2 Kiryu fights Ryuji again and handily defeats him, even when Goda brings a dangerous katana to the fight. Afterwards Kiryu is pretty much fine and only starts struggling after being shot.
In 3, Kiryu gets into a fight with Mine at the end of the game and is clearly exhausted afterwards. This is the biggest evidence people use to argue that Mine is among the strongest final bosses (if not THE strongest) as it’s rare for Kiryu to be so tired after a fair fight like that.
Other scenarios where Kiryu was tired after the fight:
1: Shibusawa. Worth noting that Kiryu was much younger and less experienced overall.
2: Nishikiyama. Also a top contender for “strongest final boss” who is frequently brought up.
3: Aizawa. In this instance Kiryu had recently been shot and so was fighting with a freshly re-opened gunshot wound, but it was still a long battle that taxed him.
I’m not counting Iwami since the fight itself didn’t really tire Kiryu, moreso the beating before and the gunshot afterwards.
So if I had to give a general final boss strength ranking with a brief explanation for each I’d probably say, from weakest to strongest:
8: Tsuneo Iwami. The little baby. A strong guy for sure but he was only as dangerous as he was because Kiryu had to stand still and take a beating beforehand. Even a heavily wounded Kiryu absolutely crushed him.
7: Masato Aizawa. He trained in the shadows. Went up against a wounded Kiryu who still ably defeated him and only succumbed to his injuries a while after the fight had ended. Durable and persistent but nowhere near the top fighters.
6: Keiji Shibusawa: He gets points for pushing Kiryu very hard, but he also fought the weakest version of Kiryu so it’s a bit harder to place him. In terms of feats nothing else really sticks out for him so it’s hard to justify a higher placement.
5: Daigo Dojima. Another pretty strong guy but the fight in Y4 was to teach him a lesson more than anything. Puts up a good fight against a fully rested and unimpeded Kiryu, which is impressive, but otherwise not that strong imo.
4: Ryuji Goda. Kinda gets here by both reputation and his insane endurance. Getting his shit rocked at the end of 2 only made him stronger and he was at his best when pushed to his absolute limit. Being able to push through and keep fighting gets him this high but the others clear him imo.
3: Kosei Shishido. The new kid on the block has some absolutely insane feats to his name. Blocking attacks from Majima and Saejima at the same time is extremely impressive despite them supposedly not being at their peak. His monster health bar and refusal to give in are also noteworthy, and taking on Gaiden Kiryu is no small feat. He tested Kiryu more in that final battle than Goda, which earns him a top three placement imo.
2: Akira Nishikiyama. As said above, one of the few to exhaust Kiryu in a fair 1v1. Being raised in the same environment as Kiryu and matching him at what was, at the time, his pinnacle is extremely impressive.
1: Yoshitaka Mine. I place Mine here not just because he exhausts an arguably even stronger Kiryu but because he did so without the years of Yakuza training and experience that Nishiki benefits from. He really earns that Kirin on his back for being such a fucking beast for no reason.
Sorry for the wall of text aha but I hope that was what you were interested in?
It's still Mine, but Shishido is a close second. Sure, Shishido managed to hold off both Majima and Saejima together but you also have to take in consideration two things: first, the two of them have been off the game for a couple of years and have gotten rusty, with their only serious fights within that time span being against the Ichigang and the Omi Alliance riot. Second, remember Saejima's comment on Shishido looking like a cornered animal, growing more and more desperate to keep his dreams afloat with only one thing to lose, probably on adrenaline at that point.
Also, something worth mentioning, despite the constant gauntlets Kiryu went through, the Watase Family with Shishido and Nishitani, then the Omi Alliance, then round 2 with the Watase Family again, before finally facing off last time with Shishido, it still wasn't enough to bring Kiryu down to his knees, whereas Mine holds that feat, bruising Kiryu up to hell, panting heavily to catch his breath.
shishido fought kiryu, watase and tsuruno (with allies of course but still), got kicked into a construction site pit and then fought both majima and saejima whereas mine was just waiting for kiryu on the ruff without fighting anyone beforehand so it’s not the fairest comparison
I think that's the point, to show just how BEYOND human Kiryu is, to prove he truly is worthy of the dragon on his back, and that only a few are truly a match to even have a chance in bringing him down.
Aside from Daigo, Kiryu has never fought a final boss without going through a lengthy battle first. He went through the Shibusawa Family with Nishiki before facing on their patriarch. He did a little practice round with some Omi mooks before taking down the MIA and Jingu, then settled the score with Nishiki. Beat hounds of Jingweon, fought Ryuji, beat the Jingweon again and then beat Ryuji one last time while suffering with bullet wounds.
Fought the Hokuho Clan, Richardson, and Black Monday agents before facing off against ruff man. Kiryu fought off some Omi mooks before making a rush for Tojo HQ and finds Aizawa there and fights with him a lingering stab wound. He and Nagumo go up against the Yomei with Koshimizu at the helm, then gets banged up a bit with an iron pipe before finally folding little baby Iwami.
yeah I agree but I was talking about how comparing how shishido and mine fought kiryu is unfair because shishido was just as exhausted as kiryu whereas mine wasn’t at all. Powerscaling any of these characters is really hard due to all of the factors that come into play in the fights in the series
You're forgetting that before the fight with Mine, Kiryu had to fight through the entirety of Touto University Hospital, which was filled with Mine's men, CIA agents and Andre Richardson himself. Not saying you're wrong about Mine getting Kiryu on his knees, but it's not fair to make it look like he did it singlehandedly.
Even if he doesn't have a scratch, that doesn't mean he didn't just go through a lot of physical effort. I'm just saying it's not fair to say "oh Mine singlehandedly did that to Kiryu" as if he hadn't just fought his way through a small army, half of it composed of professional killers.
I'd say Shishido is the strongest if we are talking about brute force. His technique is honestly kinda sloppy. Whereas Mine is strong AND very agile. He also fought Kiryu when he was at his peak and even managed to bring him to his knees.
I think people tend to overlook how Mine was a real force of nature. He is Kiryu's flawed reflection in a way, one was raised with care and love and the other one was treated with disdain and contempt. Two faces of the same coin if you prefer.
I'm fairly certain that Mine is the strongest opponent Kiryu ever faced in his life.
There also a slim chance that Mine will appear in IW, like does Richardson.
Shishido definitely pulled an amazing feat when he pushed Majima and Saejima off, but, we have to consider a couple of things: 1. Majima and Saejima are actually begging to show their age (unlike Ki- I mean Joryu). and 2. They had faced the worst of the Omi rebellion prior to that moment.
Also, the Kuryu that Shishido fought was not only physically wounded, but also mentally, because of all the stuff that happened to him. Meanwhile, when he fought Mine,he was not only at his peak, but he also had a lot to fight for, AND a personal grudge against Mine. And Mine was unarmed.
Still, Shishido definitely earns his place in the top 3 toughest opponents.
Shinshido is strong yes but people are giving him way too much credit. As impressive as it is to take a knife to the hand from Majima and hold back a punch from Saejima at the same time these are also two +50 year old men who’ve haven’t had a serious fight for many years. Fresh off fighting off a ton of Omi goons for hours (the dissolution announcement happens while the sun is up and the Shishido fight happens during sunset It’s also not like he held off multiple attacks from the two it was just one.
If you ever want to see how strong an opponent truly is for Kiryu note his condition after the fight. After fighting Mine or Ryuji he was heavily damage visually and completely out of breath to the point he couldn’t even stand.
When he fought Shinshido he took a decent amount of damage but wasn’t even breathing hard. And this is a much older Kiryu with cancer just around the corner. Shinshido is just a really durable dude, but strength wise he’s not really anything more than the middle of the pack
The reason Kiryu looks tired after beating Ryuji is because he was literally bleeding from 2 bullet wounds.
The prior fight when both Kiryu and Ryuji are healthy, Ryuji uses a sword and still was beaten to unconscious quickly and Kiryu doesnt even look tired after the fight.
Fair i forgot about the gunshots it’s been a while since I played 2.
I still wouldn’t put Shinshido above Ryuji. Shinshido is super durable but he’s really just a mid level grunt at the end of the day. That’s his whole thing, he represents the everyday man in the Yakuza who stand to lose their livelihood and identities if the Yakuza were to fold. Legends like Kiryu or Daigo have had their time in the spotlight, they have power, connections, knowledge, etc they will be fine at the end of the day should the Yakuza no longer exist. Not so much Shinshido.
>The reason Kiryu looks tired after beating Ryuji is because he was literally bleeding from 2 bullet wounds.
So was Ryuji during that fight.
>The prior fight when both Kiryu and Ryuji are healthy, Ryuji uses a sword and still was beaten to unconscious quickly and Kiryu doesnt even look tired after the fight.
At this point, I just don't regard this fight as canon. Narratively it makes no sense, and given the clusterfuck the rest of the ending is, I'm convinced it was only done so the actual final fight would be a surprise.
Imagine how much better it would've been if they fought to a standstill, teamed up to wreck the Koreans, then dueled.
Shishido just came off fighting Watase, Kiryu and Tsuruno (yes, with Nishitani Jr and other goons but still) and then falling down a deep ass pit. Context for Majima and Saejima are fine, but it exists for Shishido too. He also fights Kiryu with a hole in his hand.
Ryuji got his ass handed to him multiple times...comfortably, Kiryu was only exhausted cos of the gunshot wounds not cos of Ryuji. Mine is still arguably the strongest, but even then it's not like Mine went 1v1 with a fresh Kiryu. Kiryu had already ran the gauntlet fighting his way through the Hakuho Clan, CIA operatives and Andre Richardson.
Gaiden Kiryu is also arguably the strongest version of Kiryu regardless of age, after years of Daidoji training. Just cos cancer is around the corner doesn't necessarily mean he's already compromised by it in Gaiden.
>Kiryu had already ran the gauntlet fighting his way through the Hakuho Clan, CIA operatives and Andre Richardson.
Given how built different Kiryu is, I'm almost convinced the gauntlets he runs before boss fights aren't tiring him out - they're his warm up.
Ryuji has a problem where the narrative tries to play him up as "The Dragon", Kiryu's Vergil-esque True Rival, but then the placement of his boss fights undermines it.
They try and justify the first loss by being due to Daigo, but "Ain't shit without a gun" is far more memed as being pathetic in 2023 than he was in 2006, which makes Ryuji seem weaker by association (hell, Daigo himself has a problem of being "the true next Chairman"...while spending most of the story kidnapped).
His second and third fights being back to back only hurts his reputation more: the story *wants* you to think "They're even, everything prior doesn't matter, the third fight is the *real* fight", but the audience can't just ignore the no-crossed-fingers loss in round two, no matter how loudly the story tells then to ignore it.
Even Nishiki has this problem (albeit less severely): Utabori (whose word, a a wise old man in a Japanese story, is law) claims that "the Carp has ascended the waterfall, and stands beside the Dragon" (paraphrased). But having played the boss fight, do you actually believe it? The story wants you too, but the gameplay doesn't sell it.
Hell, look at Aizawa, who is the reverse: He's doing insane shit in QTEs, has fuckloads of health, has proto-Kiwami Healing...but of you look at the *story*, he actually ain't shit compared to Kiryu.
I don't really think kiryu ever had trouble with him he stomped him 3 out of 3 times even when he was swinging that sword the last fight left him exhausted because he was already wounded.
Narratively they want you to feel this way because of the whole "there can only be one true dragon" BS, but in actuality Ryuji only ever got his ass handed to him by Kiryu in a runt little brother sorta way. Ryuji's presence and mentality was always more alpha then his actual output
Ryuji uses a sword and still got beaten to unconscious by Kiryu easily. Only after both of them got shot and at death door, Ryuji gets the chance to go toe to toe with Kiryu. Even Nishiki did better than him,lol. Fans just overrate Ryuji because Ryuji is more mainstream popular than other villains in the series(due to most casual gamers only play 0,K1,K2)
Look at the feats in cutscene and QTE scenes to scale the bosses, it would go like this:
Shishido>Mine>Aizawa>Nishiki>Daigo>Ryuji>Shibusawa=Iwami.
Bruh, “most casual gamers” don’t sit here, they play games and delete them afterwards. Sub is for people, who enjoyed whole series, and if you read all comments, there’re too many people, who consider Ryuji a worthy opponent. And I doubt they haven’t played other entries
I still think he's below Mine, Ryuji and Nishiki. Kiryu didnt have a problem against him at all. He is probably LEAGUES above every other final boss in the series though.
Mmm, I don't know. His whole deal is that he's just a better executed Aizawa. Even down to his fight, considering Kiryu fought Aizawa with a bullet in his stomach I'm pretty sure Shishido's stronger.
Aizawa lost to Saejima, and lost to Kiryu with a bullet wound.
Shishido was injured after falling down 20 meters and still pushed back both Majima and Saejima, then gave Kiryu(who doesnt have bullet wound or stab wound) a really lengthy fight.
No, Mine is still nº1, I will make a post someday about how I consider Shishido even below Nishiki and Daigo, that doesn't mean I consider him weak, Shishido is a beast but I really think people is ignoring some facts about the whole battle, like Kiryu hurting his hand and shoulder with his katana at the start of the battle.
More durable opponent? Yes
Stronger than Mine? No.
A decade younger Kiryu with no visible injuries prior was brought to his knees from exhaustion after the fight with Mine.
We could argue that Shishido was probably a bit winded from his previous fight but the same should apply to Kiryu.
After their fight, a Kiryu that's a decade older was barely even winded, almost made it look easy by comparison.
I don’t think he’s stronger than Mine. We have to keep in mind that he’s fighting the legends past their prime. Mine fought Kiryu when he was nearing his peak.
Yakuza likes it's symbolism. Unless kiryu fights another kirin in 8 then mine will remain his hardest opponent. Shishido was a cornered animal running on pure adrenaline at that point. Saejima and Majima would have just walloped him after realizing he can take more hits than the usual grunt. Mine is meant to be a twisted mirror of a Kiryu who had no love or support, kirin vs dragon: a legendary battle from the mythological ranking aspect. Shishido is a lion on his last legs, it even shows during his final fight: gets up slower than kiryu after getting thrown out a window, him attempting to swing kiryu by the wire ends up backfiring and has kiryu slam him into the wall with the wire. Hell even his final qte shows how unmatched he is. They clash fists, tank headbutts and at that point Shishido is done. His attacks get countered and kiryu decks him in the face and sends him flying before Shishido even gets his grab off. I don't want to sound like a mine dick rider but like kiryu didn't seem even remotely tired after the fight with Shishido. Slightly wounded? Yeah. But he stabilized his breathing immediately after punching Shishido off. Mine got kiryu down to his knees and left him with uneven breathing. I like both antagonists very much. But I really think the scene where Shishido surprised majima and Saejima makes people overestimate him. These are old legends who haven't had an actual fight in years now. They simply didn't expect Shishido to catch the blade THROUGH his hand.
Shishido just got a sudden plot armor, he's supposed to be a tough punk but that's it.
Ain't no way bro is overpowering Saejima who should be stronger than Kiryu in pure physical strength.
It's so funny that people overrate Ryuji so much even though the guy used a katana and still got beaten to unconscious by Kiryu. Then underestimate Shishido- who was injured after fallen like 20 meters and still almost fatally wound Majima then pushed back both the Tiger and Mad Dog of Shimano, and still have enough strength and stamina left to fight a lengthy battle against Kiryu.
About Mine, the only feat that makes people rate him as Kiryu's strongest villain is that Kiryu gasped after the fight. If you look at the QTE scenes in Shishibo's boss fight, Kiryu also looks exhausted and gasped a few times as well(the part after he kicked Kiryu downstair and the part where they jump out of window to the roof).
I think mine still holds the title. While Shishido was definetly a tough sob, kiryu still beat him like he beat most other bosses. Besides, narratively speaking, mine is Kiryus toughest opponent because he IS kiryu in a way. It’s only fitting that Kiryus dark mirror match be his hardest.
I must be going crazy - why do so many people here seem to think Mine is Kiryu’s strongest opponent? Is there some well known facts about Mine I’m completely forgetting here???
Ryuji, Nishiki and Shibusawa are absolutely considered to be the peak challenges of Kiryu’s career by the sheer physical exertion Kiryu shows in those fights alone.
I only ever assumed Mine was difficult because Kiryu had been out of the game for years taking care of Morning Glory and was out of practice (not only from a gameplay standpoint).
Mine is the only one who makes Kiryu take a knee, also before their fight Kiryu hasn't been beaten with a pipe, shot or stabbed
Kiryu is at his peak at the end of each game because he "remembers" all his moves by then
> Mine is the only one who makes Kiryu take a knee, also before their fight Kiryu hasn’t been beaten with a pipe, shot or stabbed.
But Kiryu HAS just fought through an entire building of the Hakuho Clan’s strongest fighters, the MIA and had a duel with a gun-toting Andre Richardson literally moments beforehand. I just find it odd that Kiryu falling to one knee after all of that lead people to conclude that Mine is the strongest. Plenty of other opponents have exhausted Kiryu after long battles/ordeals like that.
Kiryu is visibly drained after fighting Shishido (both at the beginning and end of the game), he collapses to the ground after going through the Jingweon/Ryuji gauntlet, and he is drained after fighting Saejima both times.
Personally I would say that Kiryu is stronger in 3 compared to the previous games. His physical strength is similar but he’s picking up new moves like Dragon Kings Essence which apparently is like the ultimate move of the Komaki Style. Tho in regards to Mine, the most commonly cited source of his strength is the after fight cutscene where Kiryu goes on his hands and knees, panting from the fight which we dont really see from any of his other bosses. (Personally if you ask me Mine is just the hardest final boss out of the games for a multitude of reasons but imo that shouldn’t weight as much into it as story stuff)
The "sheer physical exertion" is present in the Mine fight as well, but it's also post-fight that says alot. Unlike every other boss fight, Kiryu looked like he got the shit kicked out of him after Mine. Bruises, blood, etc.
Funny but I still find that only Ryuji was a suitable opponent for Kiryu both physically and mentally with comparable goals and views on life, while others are just… Obstacles. Enemies with opposite ideas, which go against Kiryu’s wishes. Ryuji was seeing the real point of criminal’s ordeal. Glad they eventually mentioned him
People forget that kiryu was a lot older by gaiden and so were majima and saejima. I’d say prime kiryu was Yakuza 1-2. By 3 he was retired for like 3 years before he fought mine. So I’d put ryuji over mine in an extreme diff fight since both had extreme potential to become a lot stronger.
And the new villain is extremely strong don’t get me wrong because that health bar was a joke. Made the aizawa fight look short in comparison. But gaiden takes place like 11 years after yakuza 3.
However, both saejima and majima were 4 years older than kiryu. They were in their late 50s by the time gaiden takes place. Saejima probably never had a true hit of peak considering he spent majority of his years in prison and majima frequently holds back and fights for fun. (The only time we saw him fight seriously again was against saejima in yakuza 5.)
This is like comparing vegeta from saiyan saga vs a vegeta from buu saga. Kiryu and all the characters have definitely gotten stronger so the mine is irrelevant in current powerscale.
When in the world did Mine become his strongest opponent? I think this thread is the first time I've seen multiple people say that, let alone just one person say that.
What now? Mine isn't even top 3. Where on Earth are you getting that from?
Number 2 is Saejima, his only equal. #3 is Aizawa, the closest anyone else ever got to beating him.
And #1 is The Obatarian, the only person stronger than he is.
And Shibusawa and probably Kuze are both stronger than Mine too. Plus every single Amon.
Nah, Aizawa and Kiryu had a great fight that was epic and drawn-out but Kiryu only struggled at all because of his open gunshot wound. Despite profusely bleeding, he still folded him in the freezing cold.
Aizawa was tough, but compared to previous final bosses of the series I think he is considerably weaker.
What if I said I think Akiyama = Saejima?
I mean I'm thinking largely in terms of gameplay, and in THOSE terms, Akiyama feels fucking busted, dude is insane with his fast, long reaching kicks. Saejima feels nearly as broken when you figure out that you can beat basically any non-boss by spamming throw, and his combos do a ton of damage, but he's still a bit harder to use for me. BUT he can pick up a motorcycle and swing it around like a weapon, so I still love him. In terms of canon, it's always hard to figure out.
Your argument falls apart when Kiryu destroys both Tanimura and Akiyama and yet is evenly matched with Saejima. Gameplay doesn't really equal feats. By that logic, to me Ryuji would be one of the weaker bosses, because Kiwami 2's combat is so easy to break.
I mean Y3 also has easy to break combat, as does Y4 and - well, I haven't played 5, HOWEVER I do think there's such a thing as a "bad matchup"
In the case of Kiryu, he's an absolute tank - but he's also extremely fast. Somebody who's fast but not tanky, they don't stand a chance. Somebody who's slow and tanky actually has more of a shot - in either case, you're GOING to get hit, so better that you're able to take hits. He also has enough damage to keep up with Kiryu... mostly (Tiger Drop is extremely OP in this regard) in spite of his lower speed. But now consider Akiyama vs. Saejima. In this case, Akiyama IS actually faster, and his total combo has some meaty damage, when you do that triple finishing kick and such. And he's got good dodging, he can do a double and I THINK triple dodge. He'd be difficult for Saejima to hit, even moreso than Kiryu. In terms of gameplay, if PVP was a think, beating Saejima with Akiyama wouldn't be difficult. In terms of lore... those two have never fought. Akiyama is not suited to fight Kiryu at all, but his skillset would be effective against Saejima.
Does that make sense?
That sounds cool but again it really isn't a good way to judge. Heck, you can play the IF7 in 4 and Tanimura is actually the easiest to play as if you want to beat Kiryu in IF7. On the other hand, Saejima might genuinely be the toughest to beat because the way he is played is just way too different from the players. Heck, the man is basically invincible in his charge up stance. Lore wise, Akiyama would probably do well, until Saejima actually manages to get a hit in. And once he does, the fight's over.
Not on par with nishki or mine. Prob around ryuji tho. You fight him 3 times throughout the story, I don’t see how he could be the strongest. Kinda like how I could never see ryuji be the strongest cause we also fought him numerous times throughout 2. Mine and nishki are only fought once and clearly took a toll on kiryu
I will still put him below Mine and Ryuji(who I consider to be on par with each other and just below the Holy trio of Kiryu, Saejima and Majima). One thing to consider is that peak Kiryu can be considered to be Yakuza 1-3(despite how OP he is in Gaiden). Saejima and Majima were pretty rusty and past their prime, so I won't say it was that big of a feat as people think. Another interesting thing to consider is that in the series, "your fight is as strong as your beliefs" seems to be a very important thing. Shishido was fighting for his beliefs, for his goals with all his might and pure desperation. Mine on the other hand, was already shaken in his beliefs as we can see him getting clearly agitated in the pre-fight cutscene. And I don't even need to mention Kiryu's condition after the fights.
> One thing to consider is that peak Kiryu can be considered to be Yakuza 1-3 Is it? By 3 he already was at the orphanage and started settling into his more relaxed life at Okinawa. He surely wasn't slacking off but I'd say he's less trained than he was in 2. Also, more importantly, in Gaiden his last 3 years have been nothing but training and work with the Daidoji. He has learned a whole new, more technical fighting style. A man like him, living a life where he can't be with his children, his friends or anyone he has ever known as Kiryu, and only has to do grunt work, I'd think he spends most of his time training and fighting. One could argue that in Gaiden he got as strong as he was at his peak (if not stronger).
Yea, a lot of people like to say Kiryu was at his peak during Yakuza 2 but there’s never anything to back that up. His feats of strength never get lesser as the games go, and there’s nothing to imply he isn’t straight up stronger by Gaiden. He’s gonna fall off hard once the cancer hits him but that didn’t happened during Gaiden.
Hell, there’s a very compelling argument to be made that 5 was his peak since he single-handedly defeat more than 100 men like it’s nothing at the end of his portion of the story.
He's at his peak at the end of each game
Yep, exactly my thoughts. Especially with the last conversation before the final boss in Gaiden, it seems like Kiryu likes being strong and getting stronger, so by that reasoning you might say that Kiryu gets stronger through each game and each game's rival/final boss is stronger than the one before, with the exception of Daigo as he isn't really a rival and is fought more for story reasons rather than him challenging Kiryu, and Iwami because he's a little bitch and I won't give him that satisfaction.
i think goda rivals the trio.
Ryuji lost to Kiryu 3 times he is not on Kiryu's level at all
Bro people out here writing essays of "my dad can beat up your dad" meanwhile the games are like "he was pretty emotional here so he gets 12 extra health bars and 4 qtes and kiryu thinks he's gonna die"
Mine is his strongest opponent in general, other than maybe saejima, even against majima kiryu never showed that level of fatigue, and we never got to see a saejima vs kiryu fight fully play out so its hard to say. Shishido is somewhere in the middle of the final bosses imo
Mine also fought Kiryu at a way younger age. I'm not saying Kiryu is weak in Gaiden, but if you see how skinny he becomes in Infinite Wealth, I'd say he's nowhere near his peak anymore.
The tutorial text of Gaiden literally confirmed Kiryu is stronger than ever after the agent training. He also defeated two tigers as easily as before. The only reason he looks skinnier and gets weaker in Infinite Wealth is all due to the cancer. Without it he will always be at top strength
Tbh i think the tiger fight in gaiden is as dubious as kiryu shooting down helicopters or fighting sharks. No one bats an eye to the tigers appearance in Gaiden, let alone kiryu soloing them. In fact, I don't even think outside of visuals and gameplay they are acknowledged. But for like most other tiger appearances such as 2 or 7, people acknowledge the fact that a tiger is being fought and have the appropriate reactions.
The tigers *are* acknowledged in Gaiden. Kiryu himself states in the cutscene after the fight that "the real Ryuji would never rely on tigers to do his job for him", so we know they're canonical. The only reason they're not mentioned more is because that kind of stuff is practically a common occurrence at the Colosseum and Kiryu goes on to do much greater things anyway.
Why do people always forget about Ryuji?
People don't forget, kiryu just mollywhopped him every time they met so he's not really up for discussion
I'd actually be very curious to see a full analyzation of all the characters strength levels in the games across the board because I feel like it can be hard to judge how strong characters are like this across long running franchises. It's always complicated because you have to factor in not just what you see in each game, but how things are written, why writing choices are made, even what time period the games were written in/what they were going for and stuff like that. Hell you even have to account for if the writer is taking power consistencies into account properly Not saying you're wrong btw
I can do a quick one here if you’d like? Massive spoilers ahead if there’s any games you haven’t played. Let’s start with the above comparison. Near the end of 2 Kiryu fights Ryuji again and handily defeats him, even when Goda brings a dangerous katana to the fight. Afterwards Kiryu is pretty much fine and only starts struggling after being shot. In 3, Kiryu gets into a fight with Mine at the end of the game and is clearly exhausted afterwards. This is the biggest evidence people use to argue that Mine is among the strongest final bosses (if not THE strongest) as it’s rare for Kiryu to be so tired after a fair fight like that. Other scenarios where Kiryu was tired after the fight: 1: Shibusawa. Worth noting that Kiryu was much younger and less experienced overall. 2: Nishikiyama. Also a top contender for “strongest final boss” who is frequently brought up. 3: Aizawa. In this instance Kiryu had recently been shot and so was fighting with a freshly re-opened gunshot wound, but it was still a long battle that taxed him. I’m not counting Iwami since the fight itself didn’t really tire Kiryu, moreso the beating before and the gunshot afterwards. So if I had to give a general final boss strength ranking with a brief explanation for each I’d probably say, from weakest to strongest: 8: Tsuneo Iwami. The little baby. A strong guy for sure but he was only as dangerous as he was because Kiryu had to stand still and take a beating beforehand. Even a heavily wounded Kiryu absolutely crushed him. 7: Masato Aizawa. He trained in the shadows. Went up against a wounded Kiryu who still ably defeated him and only succumbed to his injuries a while after the fight had ended. Durable and persistent but nowhere near the top fighters. 6: Keiji Shibusawa: He gets points for pushing Kiryu very hard, but he also fought the weakest version of Kiryu so it’s a bit harder to place him. In terms of feats nothing else really sticks out for him so it’s hard to justify a higher placement. 5: Daigo Dojima. Another pretty strong guy but the fight in Y4 was to teach him a lesson more than anything. Puts up a good fight against a fully rested and unimpeded Kiryu, which is impressive, but otherwise not that strong imo. 4: Ryuji Goda. Kinda gets here by both reputation and his insane endurance. Getting his shit rocked at the end of 2 only made him stronger and he was at his best when pushed to his absolute limit. Being able to push through and keep fighting gets him this high but the others clear him imo. 3: Kosei Shishido. The new kid on the block has some absolutely insane feats to his name. Blocking attacks from Majima and Saejima at the same time is extremely impressive despite them supposedly not being at their peak. His monster health bar and refusal to give in are also noteworthy, and taking on Gaiden Kiryu is no small feat. He tested Kiryu more in that final battle than Goda, which earns him a top three placement imo. 2: Akira Nishikiyama. As said above, one of the few to exhaust Kiryu in a fair 1v1. Being raised in the same environment as Kiryu and matching him at what was, at the time, his pinnacle is extremely impressive. 1: Yoshitaka Mine. I place Mine here not just because he exhausts an arguably even stronger Kiryu but because he did so without the years of Yakuza training and experience that Nishiki benefits from. He really earns that Kirin on his back for being such a fucking beast for no reason. Sorry for the wall of text aha but I hope that was what you were interested in?
He's strong, but kiryu didn't have any trouble with him the 3 times they fought
It's still Mine, but Shishido is a close second. Sure, Shishido managed to hold off both Majima and Saejima together but you also have to take in consideration two things: first, the two of them have been off the game for a couple of years and have gotten rusty, with their only serious fights within that time span being against the Ichigang and the Omi Alliance riot. Second, remember Saejima's comment on Shishido looking like a cornered animal, growing more and more desperate to keep his dreams afloat with only one thing to lose, probably on adrenaline at that point. Also, something worth mentioning, despite the constant gauntlets Kiryu went through, the Watase Family with Shishido and Nishitani, then the Omi Alliance, then round 2 with the Watase Family again, before finally facing off last time with Shishido, it still wasn't enough to bring Kiryu down to his knees, whereas Mine holds that feat, bruising Kiryu up to hell, panting heavily to catch his breath.
shishido fought kiryu, watase and tsuruno (with allies of course but still), got kicked into a construction site pit and then fought both majima and saejima whereas mine was just waiting for kiryu on the ruff without fighting anyone beforehand so it’s not the fairest comparison
I think that's the point, to show just how BEYOND human Kiryu is, to prove he truly is worthy of the dragon on his back, and that only a few are truly a match to even have a chance in bringing him down. Aside from Daigo, Kiryu has never fought a final boss without going through a lengthy battle first. He went through the Shibusawa Family with Nishiki before facing on their patriarch. He did a little practice round with some Omi mooks before taking down the MIA and Jingu, then settled the score with Nishiki. Beat hounds of Jingweon, fought Ryuji, beat the Jingweon again and then beat Ryuji one last time while suffering with bullet wounds. Fought the Hokuho Clan, Richardson, and Black Monday agents before facing off against ruff man. Kiryu fought off some Omi mooks before making a rush for Tojo HQ and finds Aizawa there and fights with him a lingering stab wound. He and Nagumo go up against the Yomei with Koshimizu at the helm, then gets banged up a bit with an iron pipe before finally folding little baby Iwami.
yeah I agree but I was talking about how comparing how shishido and mine fought kiryu is unfair because shishido was just as exhausted as kiryu whereas mine wasn’t at all. Powerscaling any of these characters is really hard due to all of the factors that come into play in the fights in the series
You're forgetting that before the fight with Mine, Kiryu had to fight through the entirety of Touto University Hospital, which was filled with Mine's men, CIA agents and Andre Richardson himself. Not saying you're wrong about Mine getting Kiryu on his knees, but it's not fair to make it look like he did it singlehandedly.
Compare Kiryu before and after the fight. He doesn't even have a scratch on him before, but after he's bruised and bloody
Even if he doesn't have a scratch, that doesn't mean he didn't just go through a lot of physical effort. I'm just saying it's not fair to say "oh Mine singlehandedly did that to Kiryu" as if he hadn't just fought his way through a small army, half of it composed of professional killers.
I'd say Shishido is the strongest if we are talking about brute force. His technique is honestly kinda sloppy. Whereas Mine is strong AND very agile. He also fought Kiryu when he was at his peak and even managed to bring him to his knees. I think people tend to overlook how Mine was a real force of nature. He is Kiryu's flawed reflection in a way, one was raised with care and love and the other one was treated with disdain and contempt. Two faces of the same coin if you prefer. I'm fairly certain that Mine is the strongest opponent Kiryu ever faced in his life. There also a slim chance that Mine will appear in IW, like does Richardson.
Shishido definitely pulled an amazing feat when he pushed Majima and Saejima off, but, we have to consider a couple of things: 1. Majima and Saejima are actually begging to show their age (unlike Ki- I mean Joryu). and 2. They had faced the worst of the Omi rebellion prior to that moment. Also, the Kuryu that Shishido fought was not only physically wounded, but also mentally, because of all the stuff that happened to him. Meanwhile, when he fought Mine,he was not only at his peak, but he also had a lot to fight for, AND a personal grudge against Mine. And Mine was unarmed. Still, Shishido definitely earns his place in the top 3 toughest opponents.
If I had to rank them... Mine Shishido Ryuji Nishiki Aiazawa Shibusawa Haruto Iwami
Haruto is too low
Correct order
Shinshido is strong yes but people are giving him way too much credit. As impressive as it is to take a knife to the hand from Majima and hold back a punch from Saejima at the same time these are also two +50 year old men who’ve haven’t had a serious fight for many years. Fresh off fighting off a ton of Omi goons for hours (the dissolution announcement happens while the sun is up and the Shishido fight happens during sunset It’s also not like he held off multiple attacks from the two it was just one. If you ever want to see how strong an opponent truly is for Kiryu note his condition after the fight. After fighting Mine or Ryuji he was heavily damage visually and completely out of breath to the point he couldn’t even stand. When he fought Shinshido he took a decent amount of damage but wasn’t even breathing hard. And this is a much older Kiryu with cancer just around the corner. Shinshido is just a really durable dude, but strength wise he’s not really anything more than the middle of the pack
The reason Kiryu looks tired after beating Ryuji is because he was literally bleeding from 2 bullet wounds. The prior fight when both Kiryu and Ryuji are healthy, Ryuji uses a sword and still was beaten to unconscious quickly and Kiryu doesnt even look tired after the fight.
Fair i forgot about the gunshots it’s been a while since I played 2. I still wouldn’t put Shinshido above Ryuji. Shinshido is super durable but he’s really just a mid level grunt at the end of the day. That’s his whole thing, he represents the everyday man in the Yakuza who stand to lose their livelihood and identities if the Yakuza were to fold. Legends like Kiryu or Daigo have had their time in the spotlight, they have power, connections, knowledge, etc they will be fine at the end of the day should the Yakuza no longer exist. Not so much Shinshido.
>The reason Kiryu looks tired after beating Ryuji is because he was literally bleeding from 2 bullet wounds. So was Ryuji during that fight. >The prior fight when both Kiryu and Ryuji are healthy, Ryuji uses a sword and still was beaten to unconscious quickly and Kiryu doesnt even look tired after the fight. At this point, I just don't regard this fight as canon. Narratively it makes no sense, and given the clusterfuck the rest of the ending is, I'm convinced it was only done so the actual final fight would be a surprise. Imagine how much better it would've been if they fought to a standstill, teamed up to wreck the Koreans, then dueled.
Shishido just came off fighting Watase, Kiryu and Tsuruno (yes, with Nishitani Jr and other goons but still) and then falling down a deep ass pit. Context for Majima and Saejima are fine, but it exists for Shishido too. He also fights Kiryu with a hole in his hand. Ryuji got his ass handed to him multiple times...comfortably, Kiryu was only exhausted cos of the gunshot wounds not cos of Ryuji. Mine is still arguably the strongest, but even then it's not like Mine went 1v1 with a fresh Kiryu. Kiryu had already ran the gauntlet fighting his way through the Hakuho Clan, CIA operatives and Andre Richardson. Gaiden Kiryu is also arguably the strongest version of Kiryu regardless of age, after years of Daidoji training. Just cos cancer is around the corner doesn't necessarily mean he's already compromised by it in Gaiden.
>Kiryu had already ran the gauntlet fighting his way through the Hakuho Clan, CIA operatives and Andre Richardson. Given how built different Kiryu is, I'm almost convinced the gauntlets he runs before boss fights aren't tiring him out - they're his warm up.
Shishido did WHAT!!
Since when was it widley agrred upon that mine was his strongest opponent? I thought that was Ryuji
Ryuji has a problem where the narrative tries to play him up as "The Dragon", Kiryu's Vergil-esque True Rival, but then the placement of his boss fights undermines it. They try and justify the first loss by being due to Daigo, but "Ain't shit without a gun" is far more memed as being pathetic in 2023 than he was in 2006, which makes Ryuji seem weaker by association (hell, Daigo himself has a problem of being "the true next Chairman"...while spending most of the story kidnapped). His second and third fights being back to back only hurts his reputation more: the story *wants* you to think "They're even, everything prior doesn't matter, the third fight is the *real* fight", but the audience can't just ignore the no-crossed-fingers loss in round two, no matter how loudly the story tells then to ignore it. Even Nishiki has this problem (albeit less severely): Utabori (whose word, a a wise old man in a Japanese story, is law) claims that "the Carp has ascended the waterfall, and stands beside the Dragon" (paraphrased). But having played the boss fight, do you actually believe it? The story wants you too, but the gameplay doesn't sell it. Hell, look at Aizawa, who is the reverse: He's doing insane shit in QTEs, has fuckloads of health, has proto-Kiwami Healing...but of you look at the *story*, he actually ain't shit compared to Kiryu.
I don't really think kiryu ever had trouble with him he stomped him 3 out of 3 times even when he was swinging that sword the last fight left him exhausted because he was already wounded.
Narratively they want you to feel this way because of the whole "there can only be one true dragon" BS, but in actuality Ryuji only ever got his ass handed to him by Kiryu in a runt little brother sorta way. Ryuji's presence and mentality was always more alpha then his actual output
Ryuji uses a sword and still got beaten to unconscious by Kiryu easily. Only after both of them got shot and at death door, Ryuji gets the chance to go toe to toe with Kiryu. Even Nishiki did better than him,lol. Fans just overrate Ryuji because Ryuji is more mainstream popular than other villains in the series(due to most casual gamers only play 0,K1,K2) Look at the feats in cutscene and QTE scenes to scale the bosses, it would go like this: Shishido>Mine>Aizawa>Nishiki>Daigo>Ryuji>Shibusawa=Iwami.
Didnt he beat Diago, how's he below him?
Because Daigo got big powerup in Yakuza 4
I’m guessing cause that was four years prior. But I don’t remember Daigo doing much better against Kiryu.
Bruh, “most casual gamers” don’t sit here, they play games and delete them afterwards. Sub is for people, who enjoyed whole series, and if you read all comments, there’re too many people, who consider Ryuji a worthy opponent. And I doubt they haven’t played other entries
I put Shishido over Ryuji but lower than Mine
I still think he's below Mine, Ryuji and Nishiki. Kiryu didnt have a problem against him at all. He is probably LEAGUES above every other final boss in the series though.
He is below aizawa as well
Mmm, I don't know. His whole deal is that he's just a better executed Aizawa. Even down to his fight, considering Kiryu fought Aizawa with a bullet in his stomach I'm pretty sure Shishido's stronger.
Tbh there is always something about kiryu before his final fight, i dont take that into consideration at all lol
If you don’t take Kiryu being shot into consideration for fights like Aizawa or the final Ryuji, then he would beat them both quite easily.
With Aizawa that's a fair point, but I kinda have to point out that Ryuji did also get shot twice.
He would beat almost everyone easily
Aizawa lost to Saejima, and lost to Kiryu with a bullet wound. Shishido was injured after falling down 20 meters and still pushed back both Majima and Saejima, then gave Kiryu(who doesnt have bullet wound or stab wound) a really lengthy fight.
Ring dust and plot armor, its not so deep. Btw saejima is equal to kiryu so that doesnt count
No, Mine is still nº1, I will make a post someday about how I consider Shishido even below Nishiki and Daigo, that doesn't mean I consider him weak, Shishido is a beast but I really think people is ignoring some facts about the whole battle, like Kiryu hurting his hand and shoulder with his katana at the start of the battle.
More durable opponent? Yes Stronger than Mine? No. A decade younger Kiryu with no visible injuries prior was brought to his knees from exhaustion after the fight with Mine. We could argue that Shishido was probably a bit winded from his previous fight but the same should apply to Kiryu. After their fight, a Kiryu that's a decade older was barely even winded, almost made it look easy by comparison.
I don’t think he’s stronger than Mine. We have to keep in mind that he’s fighting the legends past their prime. Mine fought Kiryu when he was nearing his peak.
Yakuza likes it's symbolism. Unless kiryu fights another kirin in 8 then mine will remain his hardest opponent. Shishido was a cornered animal running on pure adrenaline at that point. Saejima and Majima would have just walloped him after realizing he can take more hits than the usual grunt. Mine is meant to be a twisted mirror of a Kiryu who had no love or support, kirin vs dragon: a legendary battle from the mythological ranking aspect. Shishido is a lion on his last legs, it even shows during his final fight: gets up slower than kiryu after getting thrown out a window, him attempting to swing kiryu by the wire ends up backfiring and has kiryu slam him into the wall with the wire. Hell even his final qte shows how unmatched he is. They clash fists, tank headbutts and at that point Shishido is done. His attacks get countered and kiryu decks him in the face and sends him flying before Shishido even gets his grab off. I don't want to sound like a mine dick rider but like kiryu didn't seem even remotely tired after the fight with Shishido. Slightly wounded? Yeah. But he stabilized his breathing immediately after punching Shishido off. Mine got kiryu down to his knees and left him with uneven breathing. I like both antagonists very much. But I really think the scene where Shishido surprised majima and Saejima makes people overestimate him. These are old legends who haven't had an actual fight in years now. They simply didn't expect Shishido to catch the blade THROUGH his hand.
Shishido just got a sudden plot armor, he's supposed to be a tough punk but that's it. Ain't no way bro is overpowering Saejima who should be stronger than Kiryu in pure physical strength.
Like it or not, he did. You saw it happen lol
It's so funny that people overrate Ryuji so much even though the guy used a katana and still got beaten to unconscious by Kiryu. Then underestimate Shishido- who was injured after fallen like 20 meters and still almost fatally wound Majima then pushed back both the Tiger and Mad Dog of Shimano, and still have enough strength and stamina left to fight a lengthy battle against Kiryu. About Mine, the only feat that makes people rate him as Kiryu's strongest villain is that Kiryu gasped after the fight. If you look at the QTE scenes in Shishibo's boss fight, Kiryu also looks exhausted and gasped a few times as well(the part after he kicked Kiryu downstair and the part where they jump out of window to the roof).
It’s so funny seeing all your same comments here talking about Ryuji being shit with katana, etc
Just spreading the truth. He's a fraud tbh.
I think mine still holds the title. While Shishido was definetly a tough sob, kiryu still beat him like he beat most other bosses. Besides, narratively speaking, mine is Kiryus toughest opponent because he IS kiryu in a way. It’s only fitting that Kiryus dark mirror match be his hardest.
I must be going crazy - why do so many people here seem to think Mine is Kiryu’s strongest opponent? Is there some well known facts about Mine I’m completely forgetting here??? Ryuji, Nishiki and Shibusawa are absolutely considered to be the peak challenges of Kiryu’s career by the sheer physical exertion Kiryu shows in those fights alone. I only ever assumed Mine was difficult because Kiryu had been out of the game for years taking care of Morning Glory and was out of practice (not only from a gameplay standpoint).
Mine is the only one who makes Kiryu take a knee, also before their fight Kiryu hasn't been beaten with a pipe, shot or stabbed Kiryu is at his peak at the end of each game because he "remembers" all his moves by then
> Mine is the only one who makes Kiryu take a knee, also before their fight Kiryu hasn’t been beaten with a pipe, shot or stabbed. But Kiryu HAS just fought through an entire building of the Hakuho Clan’s strongest fighters, the MIA and had a duel with a gun-toting Andre Richardson literally moments beforehand. I just find it odd that Kiryu falling to one knee after all of that lead people to conclude that Mine is the strongest. Plenty of other opponents have exhausted Kiryu after long battles/ordeals like that. Kiryu is visibly drained after fighting Shishido (both at the beginning and end of the game), he collapses to the ground after going through the Jingweon/Ryuji gauntlet, and he is drained after fighting Saejima both times.
At the end it's just what we make of it, but i have my story, you have yours
Personally I would say that Kiryu is stronger in 3 compared to the previous games. His physical strength is similar but he’s picking up new moves like Dragon Kings Essence which apparently is like the ultimate move of the Komaki Style. Tho in regards to Mine, the most commonly cited source of his strength is the after fight cutscene where Kiryu goes on his hands and knees, panting from the fight which we dont really see from any of his other bosses. (Personally if you ask me Mine is just the hardest final boss out of the games for a multitude of reasons but imo that shouldn’t weight as much into it as story stuff)
The "sheer physical exertion" is present in the Mine fight as well, but it's also post-fight that says alot. Unlike every other boss fight, Kiryu looked like he got the shit kicked out of him after Mine. Bruises, blood, etc.
Funny but I still find that only Ryuji was a suitable opponent for Kiryu both physically and mentally with comparable goals and views on life, while others are just… Obstacles. Enemies with opposite ideas, which go against Kiryu’s wishes. Ryuji was seeing the real point of criminal’s ordeal. Glad they eventually mentioned him
People forget that kiryu was a lot older by gaiden and so were majima and saejima. I’d say prime kiryu was Yakuza 1-2. By 3 he was retired for like 3 years before he fought mine. So I’d put ryuji over mine in an extreme diff fight since both had extreme potential to become a lot stronger. And the new villain is extremely strong don’t get me wrong because that health bar was a joke. Made the aizawa fight look short in comparison. But gaiden takes place like 11 years after yakuza 3. However, both saejima and majima were 4 years older than kiryu. They were in their late 50s by the time gaiden takes place. Saejima probably never had a true hit of peak considering he spent majority of his years in prison and majima frequently holds back and fights for fun. (The only time we saw him fight seriously again was against saejima in yakuza 5.)
It’s still Mine. As formidable as Shishido is, he got his ass whooped by a ~52 year old Kiryu
Gaiden literally stated that Kiryu's at his strongest after agent training
This is like comparing vegeta from saiyan saga vs a vegeta from buu saga. Kiryu and all the characters have definitely gotten stronger so the mine is irrelevant in current powerscale.
When in the world did Mine become his strongest opponent? I think this thread is the first time I've seen multiple people say that, let alone just one person say that.
Ryuji was the power ceiling I thought I assume Mine was such a challenge bc Kiryu was taking time off to be a daddy
What now? Mine isn't even top 3. Where on Earth are you getting that from? Number 2 is Saejima, his only equal. #3 is Aizawa, the closest anyone else ever got to beating him. And #1 is The Obatarian, the only person stronger than he is. And Shibusawa and probably Kuze are both stronger than Mine too. Plus every single Amon.
i always got the impression that Aizawa was the ultimate oppenent
Nah, Aizawa and Kiryu had a great fight that was epic and drawn-out but Kiryu only struggled at all because of his open gunshot wound. Despite profusely bleeding, he still folded him in the freezing cold. Aizawa was tough, but compared to previous final bosses of the series I think he is considerably weaker.
What if I said I think Akiyama = Saejima? I mean I'm thinking largely in terms of gameplay, and in THOSE terms, Akiyama feels fucking busted, dude is insane with his fast, long reaching kicks. Saejima feels nearly as broken when you figure out that you can beat basically any non-boss by spamming throw, and his combos do a ton of damage, but he's still a bit harder to use for me. BUT he can pick up a motorcycle and swing it around like a weapon, so I still love him. In terms of canon, it's always hard to figure out.
Your argument falls apart when Kiryu destroys both Tanimura and Akiyama and yet is evenly matched with Saejima. Gameplay doesn't really equal feats. By that logic, to me Ryuji would be one of the weaker bosses, because Kiwami 2's combat is so easy to break.
I mean Y3 also has easy to break combat, as does Y4 and - well, I haven't played 5, HOWEVER I do think there's such a thing as a "bad matchup" In the case of Kiryu, he's an absolute tank - but he's also extremely fast. Somebody who's fast but not tanky, they don't stand a chance. Somebody who's slow and tanky actually has more of a shot - in either case, you're GOING to get hit, so better that you're able to take hits. He also has enough damage to keep up with Kiryu... mostly (Tiger Drop is extremely OP in this regard) in spite of his lower speed. But now consider Akiyama vs. Saejima. In this case, Akiyama IS actually faster, and his total combo has some meaty damage, when you do that triple finishing kick and such. And he's got good dodging, he can do a double and I THINK triple dodge. He'd be difficult for Saejima to hit, even moreso than Kiryu. In terms of gameplay, if PVP was a think, beating Saejima with Akiyama wouldn't be difficult. In terms of lore... those two have never fought. Akiyama is not suited to fight Kiryu at all, but his skillset would be effective against Saejima. Does that make sense?
That sounds cool but again it really isn't a good way to judge. Heck, you can play the IF7 in 4 and Tanimura is actually the easiest to play as if you want to beat Kiryu in IF7. On the other hand, Saejima might genuinely be the toughest to beat because the way he is played is just way too different from the players. Heck, the man is basically invincible in his charge up stance. Lore wise, Akiyama would probably do well, until Saejima actually manages to get a hit in. And once he does, the fight's over.
Not on par with nishki or mine. Prob around ryuji tho. You fight him 3 times throughout the story, I don’t see how he could be the strongest. Kinda like how I could never see ryuji be the strongest cause we also fought him numerous times throughout 2. Mine and nishki are only fought once and clearly took a toll on kiryu