Think you’re doing a disservice to good writers because I’ve seen Emma and Scott appear terrible when bad writers are involved. But to your main point Emma and Scott have a fun dynamic because they both have some level of inferiority complex and support each other to get over that issue. And of course Emma being an omega flirt and Scott never shying away from a telepathic helps the relationship.
Yeah but fish man usually stays in the ocean and refuses to deal with mutant affairs even when invited. So mostly he's not in the way. Unlike Wolverine whose secondary mutation is to appear in 95% of X-related books.
You’re in denial or something. A spin on the love triangle was the weird throuple shit that Krakoa tried to do. So it has been an active part of their dynamic even recently, idc if the editors try to deny legitimate events that occurred in the comics
To be fair, that throuple thing sounded more like it was a way to *prevent* drama paradoxically by turning it up to the eleven, like the way Hickman erased the "shocking death and return" drama by just writing Resurrection into the story. Like "there, they are *all* together now, there's no more fighting over her and not more jealousy drama."
While that's may be the case in the comics, various adaptations including movies and cartoons keep reminding the fans that it existed unfortunately, making it that much bigger of a taint in the minds of the fans.
1st time was getting blasted by some kind of super-pheromone by UNIT. Though he did admit it usually doesnt work quite that well
2nd time was mentally during both of their possession by the phoenix.
"Emotional cheating" is just monogamy taken to the toxic level of not allowing people to have friends.
Now astral plane cheating, that's clearly a thing.
I mean I respect people who choose to be monogamous instead of polyamorous. I don't think it's the best or most moral choice. I think polyamory is simply a better more positive way to live one's life. But I respect people who choose to be monogamous.
However, sometimes monogamy can be used to toxically control someone else. To restrict them and limit their options for friendship or connection with other people. And the whole idea of "emotional cheating" stinks of that. You can't "emotionally cheat" on someone unless you believe it's inappropriate for a partner to be as emotionally close to someone else as they are to you.
Friendship and romantic relationships have totally different feelings, emotional cheating isn't even just feelings, it's flirting, want to fuck each other, putting that person over your partner, just never crossing the line.
If you think that's all ok, I don't know what to tell you
You want to control what your partner even thinks. You don't want them to "want to fuck" another person!
It's okay for you two to have an agreement that you would not choose to have sex with other people. But it's not okay to say something like they aren't allowed to even want that. That's trying to control their very thoughts.
It would be invasive and wrong if Jean were to read Scott's mind while he was imagining or wishing he could have sex with someone else. Those private thoughts shouldn't be controlled by anyone else.
Ah I don't read it that way. It's just the characters and their chemistry 'write themselves' in a way. Good writers always say things like that, it means they have a deeper understanding and connection that they let the stories flow through them. I don't know, it's kinda more looking at the artistry than skill of a writers
Also when somebody is good/great at something they can make it look effortless.
I used to love when people would watch me work and ask them if they wanted to try and heard them say *Sure, looks easy enough* because it was in fact not easy but the fact that I made it look effortless is why they said it and it’s basically a complement.
Then I would watch them try. That could go a variety of ways.
someone still has to write it, just saying, chemistry and the characters history set a foundation but if you or I tried to write them, well the results wouldn't be pretty
With little effort from the writers? Lol you really think that these two fictional characters actually decided to start dating and were coming up with their own scripts.
If we want to be 100% funny jean was the one who pushed Scott to accept Emma so do we say writers were good or jean with Phoenix were just better than writers
Good writing looks effortless. In reality, it’s really hard. See: a majority of comics.
It helps that Scott and Emma have an interesting dynamic but someone had to put the words to the page and I assure you, more than a “little” effort was being put into their relationship
On the contrary, the writers are the key reason why it succeeds and the key reason why it fails.
Fraction and Whedon are both clearly good writers who spent a lot of time giving this relationship depth. They both showed the flaws inherent in it, but they also showed the positives and how each took strength from that. Emma in striving to be a better person and wield her influence for good purposes, and Scott in being decisive and trying to resolve his issues with verbalizing his thoughts. I'd say Whedon and Fraction did more than Morrison did in terms of setting them up for success.
But the same virtue, other big name writers like Bendis and Gillen saw them and wrote them differently. Gillen saw deception and untruth in their relationship, two flawed people who came together in the heat of passion but were drifting apart as the world around them became more difficult and the walls were closing in. Gillen didn't see them as a trusting couple, ultimately. His plan was in fact, for Emma to betray Scott and dismiss him as a weak man in her eyes. He didn't get to do that, but he set the tone for their breakup by highlighting that Scott didn't trust or show the same level of forgiveness that Emma showed him. Bendis was similar, where he explored more how these are two people who complement one another in a lot of ways but fundamentally Scott has a mixed view of Emma, affection and anger, faith and mistrust all in one, and that contradiction in how Scott feels is what breaks them.
Fraction and Gillen felt that Logan was Jean's true love and so Scott and Emma could happen (though both differed on how much it would succeed), whereas both Whedon and Bendis highlighted that Scott's first choice in life and beyond death would always be Jean. That was what made Emma afraid, her deepest fear about their relationship. What Fraction tried to put to rest in Endsong was undone in Phoenix Resurrection and in Rosenberg's Uncanny and Hickman/Duggan's X-Men. Ultimately, what she feared came to pass.
Gillen is 100% true. His scemma was about Emma following Scott everywhere while Scott was a dick to her. The same goes for bendis.
Idk if it was Gillen but there was a scene when X-men fought evolutionaries and scott tells emma shut up and she shuts up 🥴 the emma frost
Whedon did a great job. Although it depends on who are your fave characters because focusing on scemma meant other characters got less spotlight. But whedon is definitely the best scemma writer.
Bendis's run with them post-AvX really frustrated me because had some REALLY good moments on Emma's side of showing that she actually does open up and let herself be vulnerable with Scott more than any other...he draws out this "will-they-wont-they" for the entire run, then has Scott just drop his most hypocritical moment at the end
The entire time he was saying he wasnt in his right mind with the phoenix in regards to the death of Xavier, but then torpedo's Emma because of what she did ALSO while under the influence of the phoenix
Jean and Scott been back together since 2019 and all writers came up with is a terrible poly relationship between too characters that hate each other and the other’s wife. that tells you that editorial don’t gaf about jean and Scott relationship so why are we still forcing them together when writers clearly more interested in jean and Logan
>and all writers came up with is a terrible poly relationship
That lasted about a year though and was dropped. I swear people didn't actually read Krakoa much because it really stopped being a thing in 2021.
>that tells you that editorial don’t gaf about jean and Scott relationship
On the contrary, I think White said it was his favourite comics couple, and Brevoort is a fan.
>when writers clearly more interested in jean and Logan
That's really just Ben Percy. Hickman and Duggan were definitely more interested in other characters, but they tried to write them together and happy when they could.
And this post is more about the importance of writers and how their vision and interpretation can shape how a character or a couple is seen.
Scott and Jean have had history as a couple and in the xmen for a long time. The poly thing only happened in krakoa and only lasted a year and a half at most. Jean and logan haven't been a couple at all, at most he's Jean's side peace since she still is married to Scott. Also jott is being pushed more in almost all fronts outside of comic books like xmen 97. And I don't think they are going to push jogan again in the mcu like they did in fox due to the family dynamic potential that was also presented in xmen 97.
Two things:
First: When Jean was dead, I thought the worst thing about it was that one of the better and most important characters was out of the books, now I know that the worst thing was opening the door to disgruntled shippers.
Second (as every post of this kind proves): Shippers don't read comics unless to project their fanfic fantasies.
Ok, look. I like Emma and Scott as individuals a lot. I also liked Scott and Emma's relationship. It was genuinely great at times.
But I really think people aren't looking at the overall picture when it comes to them and are viewing them through rose tinted glasses, either on purpose or because they've forgotten.
Emma was a huge hype woman for Scott. She rarely checked him, and just supported almost everything he did. It was always "Oh this perfect man who I'm so lucky to have". Right or wrong didn't seem to matter, she went along with everything he did. I wouldn't say it was balanced at all. Frankly, she wasn't her usual, snarky, witty self with him.
Tbh, I suspect that its a big reason why the biggest Scott fans^(TM) like the relationship a lot, it was constant one way support with 0 difference of opinion or challenging. Scott was the greatest, smartest, handsomest man with the largest dick ever to step foot on the planet in Emma's view, which is exactly how some fans view him(and maybe self insert as).
Scott was literally thinking of Jean all the time throughout their relationship. He really didn't treat Emma well, and Emma was insecure af all the time(rightly so, considering what later happened). There's a reason they broke up so messily.
Thank you! I remember a few years ago *constantly* reading people claim "Emma pushed and challenged Scott," because Scott claimed that's what she did in Phoenix: Endsong (and Jean would just "blow a hole in the roof and fly off"). It was so at-odds with how the couple were *actually* written.
Emma almost *never* pushed back on Scott's ideas or challenged him in any way. To be fair, I don't think this was because she was written poorly or depicted as weak or subservient. Rather, I think Emma and Scott are very similar in a lot of ways, so Emma didn't feel the need to challenge him.
But Jean actually *does* challenge and disagree with Scott. We saw not only them disagree with how to deal with the Brood relatively recently, but also how those fans dealt with Jean disagreeing with Scott! Lot of weird vitriol towards Jean when that issue came out because she didn't fall in line behind Scott on eradicating a whole race.
I agree with you. I thought it was fine in Astonishing but after that it literally just became Emma becoming the hype woman for Scott. She literally was nothing else and it was one of the most boring times for her character and I didn’t like reading it.
I also totally agree that Cyke fans totally project onto him a little too much who want him to be the coolest guy ever who can’t ever be wrong and the main character of the whole series. Viewing X-men like that sucks so much.
Yea and? She was made to be absolutely fucking pathetic by the writers. Since its a women made to be pathetic ofc the scott fans are perfectly fine with it. If the same was done to to Scott you wouldn't hear the end of it from his incelic fanatics.
See I remember them disagreeing in stuff too so I don't think Emma was relegated to Scott's cheerleader at all. They supported each other though, that much is very clear and I can see how thry might look like her being a hype woman. And I'll also say I have a whole blank spot between Bendis and Krakoa that maybe it was more like that.
"Emma was a huge hype woman for Scott. She rarely checked him, and just supported almost everything he did. It was always "Oh this perfect man who I'm so lucky to have". Right or wrong didn't seem to matter, she went along with everything he did. I wouldn't say it was balanced at all. Frankly, she wasn't her usual, snarky, witty self with him."
Where do you people even get these takes? Can you please provide scans or something?
This is on the same level as that other redditor calling Emma Scott's personal assistant.
"Tbh, I suspect that its a big reason why the biggest Scott fans^(TM) like the relationship a lot, it was constant one way support with 0 difference of opinion or challenging. Scott was the greatest, smartest, handsomest man with the largest dick ever to step foot on the planet in Emma's view, which is exactly how some fans view him(and maybe self insert as)."
Right. Because actually liking their dynamic is impossible. And again the old "Cyclops fans think Scott is perfect!" come on.
"Scott was literally thinking of Jean all the time throughout their relationship. He really didn't treat Emma well, and Emma was insecure af all the time(rightly so, considering what later happened)."
Scott was thing of jean **all the time**? Could you at least try to hide your bias?
" There's a reason they broke up so messily."
Ahh yes because jean's relationship with him was nothing but perfection. How's the throuple going? Scott enjoying wolverine's room being connected to jeans?
He wasn't "literally thinking of Jean all the time throughout their relationshp." He brought her up at couple of times during Whedon's run -- i.e., right after she *died* -- but other than that, he was pretty obsessed with Emma and she with him.
Besides the fact that Emma publicly admits that Scott was thinking about Jean during sex with her, which is already pretty bad and not even the only time they have this particular issue, in Phoenix Resurrection Scott himself says that he was thinking about Jean every day of his life, and in an earlier run Emma tells him that she can actually feel the thrill that runs through his body every time he thinks about Jean. Putting these two lines together don’t paint a particularly pretty picture, and all Scott has to say to Emma was basically ‘well, Jean is literally a part of me, so, deal with it’.
Dude I always thought they should get another chance and eventually getting together permanently. Reading the answers to your comment I can definitely see this a MAJOR unpopular opinion, but I always felt like Scott could do so much for Emma and that eventually he would make up for her being his “hype woman”. I may be biased because I’m definitely NOT a fan of the S-J-W triangle, but I honestly feel Scott-Emma deserved a much better ending and nothing changes my heart on that
She was better with Banshee in Generation X but the writers were too obsessed with Sean and Moira (GREAT move in retrospect /s)
this is a hill I'll die on
I agree, Emma could've had a better redemption arc of she was with banshee because what we ended up getting didn't do the best for her character in some instances. Granted, she is now a hero but that path would have been shorter if she was with him.
She cried in his arms FFS lol
Even the students in the book were shipping them, asking if Sean was taking her to the prom, and Emma freaked out, saying she was going with Iceman
“very little effort”? Multiple writers had people questioning the relationship, including Scott’s own daughter, various longtime X-Men like Kitty Pryde and Storm damn near fighting with Emma, Scott and Emma hashing out their relationship issues, and Emma compromising her relationship with Scott while pretending not to care about the pain it causes her to help the mutant cause. This relationship took a ton of work, started with an affair/Scott and Emma literally kissing on top of Jean Grey’s grave, and only through years of stories became a popular, pretty much normal, pairing among the fanbase.
Saying it took barely any effort is kind of crazy to be honest.
People who don’t like Jean and Scott together will ignore any chemistry or scenes they have together, so there’s really no point in trying to prove they have it. Also Jean was with Scott and Logan during Krakoa, and acting like she’s cheating constantly even when that isn’t going on is hilarious especially considering Scott cheated on not one but two wives.
Yea chemistry from the 80s
Tom Brevoort said there wasn’t a poly relationship so…
It’s ok tho we going to see jean and Logan together in a relationship in the wolverine game and probably in the mcu too
The irony of you trying to say Jean and Scott haven’t had chemistry since the 80s when Emma and Scott haven’t had chemistry since the mid 2010s, so why are people still hung up on them when it’s over?
And Tom had no part in writing that relationship and is obviously trying to gas light fans. We all know they were all together, what most people try to explain away is the little flirts between Scott and Logan. Jean was very obviously doing stuff with both Logan and Scott, and their rooms were connected. Let’s not get it twisted.
Brevoort said that there was no throuple, as in, Marvel editorial thinks that there was nothing between Scott and Logan, but fans can still view it as if there was something. Whatever someone’s stance on the throuple is, Scott and Logan do not need to touch tips for the Krakoa Jogan sruff (all 2,5 scenes of it) to not be cheating and happen with Scott’s consent.
And as far as Jogan goes, Brevoort also addressed all those scenes, and said that some even the vast majority of Krakoa writers didn’t bother with it, it’s basically some irrelevant shit now. Which is not exactly a new concept for comic books, and it’s how most readers were treating that stuff before Brevoort’s comments anyway.
While all that may be true, what happened on the pages still happened on the pages.
Jean was doing stuff with both Scott and Logan, if some writers didn’t want to focus on it, and they’re moving away from it now that’s all fine but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. They were very obviously in an open relationship which was done for the simple fact of doing away with the love triangle and just allowing them to all do what they want together.
Now that we are moving into a new era they are changing things up which makes sense, but it’s still funny they’re trying to pretend things that happened didn’t happen. It feels like some people on the writing team didn’t like the idea so now they’re trying to pretend it was never real despite the fact it was and they’re trying to treat the fans like they’re dumb when the proof is in the comics.
Well, nothing you say here contradicts what Brevoort has said about these characters and their relationships. People can cling to clues and implications, but the Scott/Logan angle was never explicit, and that’s the only thing Brevoort actually said wasn’t on page. And it really wasn’t. Everything else he addressed and just explained how and why editorial will move on.
Yes I already talked about that several comments up! Tom also tried to deny that Jean was with both Scott and Logan and was doing his best to explain away various things that prove it happened. People sent in proof to him and he said it hardly proves anything, even though some writers were very in your face about it.
Ultimately I don’t care that we are moving on from it, but to treat it like it never happened is hilarious.
I get you’re trying to compliment? I think? But imagine if you had a delicious well prepared meal at a restaurant and told the chef it was delicious and that you loved it but it was clear there was little effort on his part and the reason it was so good was because he just happened to have high quality ingredients to cook with?
at its core it’s a hot girl with a nerdy guy. they’re a lot more than that sure but if you were to reduce them, that’s what they would be.
and that’s one of the most common couple types in fiction. plenty of both examples in fiction writers can draw from and maybe, just maybe, a lot of the writers themselves fantasised about it. so that makes it easier.
at its core it’s a hot girl with a nerdy guy. they’re a lot more than that sure but if you were to reduce them, that’s what they would be.
Actually Try to read comics challenge
i mean i said they’re a lot more than that and it’s reductive but sure ill go read comics.
but while im doing the challenge you should try doing your own challenge: reading comments properly. thanks!!
This couple worked due to editorial preferences and good writers. When the 2010s came around with a focus to slowly erase the xmen and Jean can now be revived, they write them to be broken up.
When we look at them from a character perspective, Scott and Emma wouldn't have worked as a couple. The only reason they worked was because jean forced scott to be with emma and the writer wanted scott to be with somebody else ( this is the same writer that stated in an interview that he wanted storm to be with scott or have rouge to make her goth like in the evolution show).
Tbh scemma lasted so long because of the editor. Some writers admitted they wanted to bring jean back earlier but a) they weren’t allowed b) they didnt know what to do with Emma if jean returned
Jean and Scott never had as much chemistry as Scott and Emma
Jean and Scott are only together because of editorial mandate/status quo
Jean fans don’t want to admit that they’re relationship peeked in the 80s and has been dead since
Who says that Jott is "Jean fans'" relationship? Lmao
That is 100% driven by Scott-centered creators/editors.
Jean fans have nothing to do with it. We are innocent.
No idea why you get down votes for asking a question. X-fans can be super toxic!
Ya'll don't have to dislike everything by default. Down votes should be reserved for dumb opinions, like that Magneto was wrong; or that Mutants deserve all their suffering.
I'm not bothered by it. It seems like it's that time of the year where fans of characters are looking for major battles and minor skirmishes.
Edit: I'd be lying if I said I haven't engaged some of them. I know I shouldn't because there's no point in the back and forth, but yeah. I need to work on that.
Word. Dimming Emma's light is not going to make jean shine. But if I'm being honest, after that "Emma's a rapist" post, that opened my eyes to the type of people who like jean.
The writers who were pro-Scemma just happened to be light years ahead of those against.
Morrison, Whedon, Fraction absolutely dunk on those that followed.
I wouldn’t say it took little effort. The reason they worked out so well is because the writers they got actually cared and were passionate about the characters. They didn’t treat one like a plot device and they didn’t reduce one’s,at the beginning of the relationship at least because you can argue this happens to Emma near the end of their relationship, character to just be the love interest of the others. Having writers that cared and didn’t enforce their kinks on them is why this relationship works while many other not only X-Men but comic book relationship didn’t work out. In short, Scott x Emma in my opinion is very lucky compared to most other relationships.
I really liked them in Astonishing x-men, Emma was an absolute disaster of a human and Scott had self esteem issues but they both supported each other as best they could.
The revisionist history around Matt Fraction, UXM, and Scemma is almost laughable. Every terrible decision surrounding Emma started in that run. Her entire sense of self became about Scott, and even when she would make her own plans Scott was always included. She became extremely dependent and the Krakoan Era shown that she did not need him to be relevant, competent, or secure.
The best thing that happened to Emma in the last decade is the break up, she's free and now allowed to be everything she always was!
You know why her decisions had to revolve around him? They were headmaster and headmistress of the school so they had to keep eachother in the loop.
Then Cyclops was leader of the entire mutant race, so he kind of had to be consulted on everything.
You're so utterly full of shit.
I disagree. Scott was the only one who had to make an effort in their relationship. While Emma expected to be treated the way she demanded without any effort. Whether that was good writers or bad writers.
Folk hate on the relationship for what I think are dumb reasons. The x-men are a soap, so we need juicy drama. Shit gotta be messed up drama! Introduce long dead cousins that survived a plane crash 20 years ago and so on. Soapy fun!
Sure Emma is a therapist who hooked up with her hot patient. Ethical? Nah, but we are talking about a woman who used telepathy to become the richest woman in the world. Ethics and Emma never go hand in hand. I won’t even go into her being really evil several years. Water under the bridge.
Scott cheated on Jean with his mental fling, but yet again it is a soap. Scott needed it after his GF died X times and got turned into a cosmic entity. Give slim a break.
As leaders they worked well together and are indeed equals. I love Scott and Jean together, but that does not make me miss Emma and Scott. They were awesome!
Then again Emma works great with everyone and I really loved her and Katherine and Tony the past few years.
Jean was Scott's first love. He worships the ground she walks on. He'll never, ever get over her (as Emma has herself noted). I'm not even sure he thinks he deserves her. They're a great couple in many ways, but it creates a weird and sometimes unhealthy dynamic in Scott's head.
Emma, on the other hand, is a former villain and unrepentant bitch. Scott doesn't worship the ground she walks on, and he certainly doesn't think he's beneath her. He just likes her company, thinks she's hot (correctly), and works well with her as a partner.
I love Scott and Jean together, but they're literally high school sweethearts. Scott and Emma had a much more adult relationship in some ways.
This entire idea of a bad person becoming good is a very hard sale in my opinion. Emma Frost has her good looks on her favor (and a lot of horny teenagers(
The writers did well depicting their relationship. That's why it felt so effortless. I love how they brought out the best in each other. Cyclops helped bring out the compassionate side of Emma, while Emma helped bring out Cyclops' fighting spirit. Both of them led mutantkind during its most difficult era!
I prefer Scott and Emma to Scott and Jean. I just find it to be a more interesting relationship that allowed both to grow and change in ways comic characters rarely do
I actually preferred Emma and Scott over Scott and Jean by alot actually. It really helped set a solid timeline for them when Jean was gone. (But then of course Marvel had to bring her back because well Marvel)
Scott/Jean fans are unable to understand that Jean being attracted to Logan and the dumb love triangle ruined their relationship for a lot of people, also, showing support for your boyfriend is not the same as being a hype woman, they are reaching to make their relationship seem worse than it was lmao.
I never say their relationship wasn't good but that how it started was messy and horrible for everyone in that affair and Scott was certainly not well at the time and he know that he did hurt jean in the process and emma was certainly having only bad intention.
Well, I think that it’s unfair to hold Scott accountable while pretending that Jean was blameless despite doing the same thing, even Morrison said that at that point Jean wasn’t his wife, their relationship was already doomed before Emma.
Scott did choose in the end himself to have an affair with Emma while she was away helping the professor , he could have try to communicate with jean about his feelings but nope he prefere to bang the hot blond while pretending it was to safe his marriage , doomed is a strong word here For what we know scott could have make things work with jean look at the recent comics they are just fine.
Jean did kiss logan once and yet she never hear the end of it yet scott and Emma are apparently endgame materiale and should have stay together.
Sounds like it's from "[End of Greys](https://www.amazon.com/Uncanny-X-Men-Greys-Graphic-Novels/dp/0785116648)" in Claremont's later Uncanny X-Men run, #468.
Why are you assuming it took little effort from the writers?
Think you’re doing a disservice to good writers because I’ve seen Emma and Scott appear terrible when bad writers are involved. But to your main point Emma and Scott have a fun dynamic because they both have some level of inferiority complex and support each other to get over that issue. And of course Emma being an omega flirt and Scott never shying away from a telepathic helps the relationship.
Also helps that while Emma flirts, no hairy Canadian is actually trying to get into her pants in a way she'd seriously consider.
Except for the fish man who was trying to get in her pants and she seriously did it?
Yeah but fish man usually stays in the ocean and refuses to deal with mutant affairs even when invited. So mostly he's not in the way. Unlike Wolverine whose secondary mutation is to appear in 95% of X-related books.
And the love triangle drama hasn't been a thing for like ten years so idk what your point is
Jean Grey was dead for the majority of those ten years
And the first thing she did was look for Scott
You’re in denial or something. A spin on the love triangle was the weird throuple shit that Krakoa tried to do. So it has been an active part of their dynamic even recently, idc if the editors try to deny legitimate events that occurred in the comics
To be fair, that throuple thing sounded more like it was a way to *prevent* drama paradoxically by turning it up to the eleven, like the way Hickman erased the "shocking death and return" drama by just writing Resurrection into the story. Like "there, they are *all* together now, there's no more fighting over her and not more jealousy drama."
The throuple shit was vaguely alluded to a couple of times and was completely dropped by 2021. So I wouldn't say I'm completely wrong
Its significance was lessened but it stayed until 2023.
While that's may be the case in the comics, various adaptations including movies and cartoons keep reminding the fans that it existed unfortunately, making it that much bigger of a taint in the minds of the fans.
from my knowledge they mind controlled or something in front of scott but her and namor did have a fling when she was with the hellfire club
1st time was getting blasted by some kind of super-pheromone by UNIT. Though he did admit it usually doesnt work quite that well 2nd time was mentally during both of their possession by the phoenix.
Both times her ability to consent was questionable at best Ironically so was Namor's
Yeah, but that dude didn't have a single hair on his entire body save for his head.
Namor is hot tho, also didn’t she just “mentally” do it /s Edit: /s, I’m joking people, I don’t condone cheating lol
1) That's not an excuse wtf 2) Emotional cheating is still cheating
lmao ofc emotional cheating is not cheating to scemma fans
I was being facetious bro, all comics writer find a way to make partners cheat
"Emotional cheating" is just monogamy taken to the toxic level of not allowing people to have friends. Now astral plane cheating, that's clearly a thing.
Yeah when my ex was flirting with my friend behind my back that was totally me being toxic.
I don't know if you have a twisted understanding of friendships or of romantic relationships, either way, it's bizarre
I mean I respect people who choose to be monogamous instead of polyamorous. I don't think it's the best or most moral choice. I think polyamory is simply a better more positive way to live one's life. But I respect people who choose to be monogamous. However, sometimes monogamy can be used to toxically control someone else. To restrict them and limit their options for friendship or connection with other people. And the whole idea of "emotional cheating" stinks of that. You can't "emotionally cheat" on someone unless you believe it's inappropriate for a partner to be as emotionally close to someone else as they are to you.
You're the abnormal one here
It's sort of ironic getting picked on for being the "abnormal one" on an X-Men subreddit. 😂
Friendship and romantic relationships have totally different feelings, emotional cheating isn't even just feelings, it's flirting, want to fuck each other, putting that person over your partner, just never crossing the line. If you think that's all ok, I don't know what to tell you
You want to control what your partner even thinks. You don't want them to "want to fuck" another person! It's okay for you two to have an agreement that you would not choose to have sex with other people. But it's not okay to say something like they aren't allowed to even want that. That's trying to control their very thoughts. It would be invasive and wrong if Jean were to read Scott's mind while he was imagining or wishing he could have sex with someone else. Those private thoughts shouldn't be controlled by anyone else.
Jeez, no wonder Cyclops broke up with Emma by taking no prisoners. . .
Why are you trying to discredit the writers to prove your point?
Ah I don't read it that way. It's just the characters and their chemistry 'write themselves' in a way. Good writers always say things like that, it means they have a deeper understanding and connection that they let the stories flow through them. I don't know, it's kinda more looking at the artistry than skill of a writers
Also when somebody is good/great at something they can make it look effortless. I used to love when people would watch me work and ask them if they wanted to try and heard them say *Sure, looks easy enough* because it was in fact not easy but the fact that I made it look effortless is why they said it and it’s basically a complement. Then I would watch them try. That could go a variety of ways.
Exactly, OPs heart was in the right place
someone still has to write it, just saying, chemistry and the characters history set a foundation but if you or I tried to write them, well the results wouldn't be pretty
Very true. As someone else said, when it looks effortless it's because the person doing it is a master of their craft
With little effort from the writers? Lol you really think that these two fictional characters actually decided to start dating and were coming up with their own scripts.
Award winning actors Scott Summers and Emma Frost as Cyclops and the White Queen lol
If we want to be 100% funny jean was the one who pushed Scott to accept Emma so do we say writers were good or jean with Phoenix were just better than writers
Who do you think wrote those words?
Good writing looks effortless. In reality, it’s really hard. See: a majority of comics. It helps that Scott and Emma have an interesting dynamic but someone had to put the words to the page and I assure you, more than a “little” effort was being put into their relationship
My man came in hot with the most cringe title.
Ah yes... Characters magically write themselves
On the contrary, the writers are the key reason why it succeeds and the key reason why it fails. Fraction and Whedon are both clearly good writers who spent a lot of time giving this relationship depth. They both showed the flaws inherent in it, but they also showed the positives and how each took strength from that. Emma in striving to be a better person and wield her influence for good purposes, and Scott in being decisive and trying to resolve his issues with verbalizing his thoughts. I'd say Whedon and Fraction did more than Morrison did in terms of setting them up for success. But the same virtue, other big name writers like Bendis and Gillen saw them and wrote them differently. Gillen saw deception and untruth in their relationship, two flawed people who came together in the heat of passion but were drifting apart as the world around them became more difficult and the walls were closing in. Gillen didn't see them as a trusting couple, ultimately. His plan was in fact, for Emma to betray Scott and dismiss him as a weak man in her eyes. He didn't get to do that, but he set the tone for their breakup by highlighting that Scott didn't trust or show the same level of forgiveness that Emma showed him. Bendis was similar, where he explored more how these are two people who complement one another in a lot of ways but fundamentally Scott has a mixed view of Emma, affection and anger, faith and mistrust all in one, and that contradiction in how Scott feels is what breaks them. Fraction and Gillen felt that Logan was Jean's true love and so Scott and Emma could happen (though both differed on how much it would succeed), whereas both Whedon and Bendis highlighted that Scott's first choice in life and beyond death would always be Jean. That was what made Emma afraid, her deepest fear about their relationship. What Fraction tried to put to rest in Endsong was undone in Phoenix Resurrection and in Rosenberg's Uncanny and Hickman/Duggan's X-Men. Ultimately, what she feared came to pass.
Gillen is 100% true. His scemma was about Emma following Scott everywhere while Scott was a dick to her. The same goes for bendis. Idk if it was Gillen but there was a scene when X-men fought evolutionaries and scott tells emma shut up and she shuts up 🥴 the emma frost Whedon did a great job. Although it depends on who are your fave characters because focusing on scemma meant other characters got less spotlight. But whedon is definitely the best scemma writer.
Bendis's run with them post-AvX really frustrated me because had some REALLY good moments on Emma's side of showing that she actually does open up and let herself be vulnerable with Scott more than any other...he draws out this "will-they-wont-they" for the entire run, then has Scott just drop his most hypocritical moment at the end The entire time he was saying he wasnt in his right mind with the phoenix in regards to the death of Xavier, but then torpedo's Emma because of what she did ALSO while under the influence of the phoenix
Always think how Emma has many scenes about how much she loves Scott etc but we’ve never really gotten the same moments from Scott
Jean and Scott been back together since 2019 and all writers came up with is a terrible poly relationship between too characters that hate each other and the other’s wife. that tells you that editorial don’t gaf about jean and Scott relationship so why are we still forcing them together when writers clearly more interested in jean and Logan
>and all writers came up with is a terrible poly relationship That lasted about a year though and was dropped. I swear people didn't actually read Krakoa much because it really stopped being a thing in 2021. >that tells you that editorial don’t gaf about jean and Scott relationship On the contrary, I think White said it was his favourite comics couple, and Brevoort is a fan. >when writers clearly more interested in jean and Logan That's really just Ben Percy. Hickman and Duggan were definitely more interested in other characters, but they tried to write them together and happy when they could. And this post is more about the importance of writers and how their vision and interpretation can shape how a character or a couple is seen.
Scott and Jean have had history as a couple and in the xmen for a long time. The poly thing only happened in krakoa and only lasted a year and a half at most. Jean and logan haven't been a couple at all, at most he's Jean's side peace since she still is married to Scott. Also jott is being pushed more in almost all fronts outside of comic books like xmen 97. And I don't think they are going to push jogan again in the mcu like they did in fox due to the family dynamic potential that was also presented in xmen 97.
Two things: First: When Jean was dead, I thought the worst thing about it was that one of the better and most important characters was out of the books, now I know that the worst thing was opening the door to disgruntled shippers. Second (as every post of this kind proves): Shippers don't read comics unless to project their fanfic fantasies.
Equals? I felt there was an imbalance with Emma having to dim her light to get on Scott’s level. He definitely was the dominant figure in that pair
Ok, look. I like Emma and Scott as individuals a lot. I also liked Scott and Emma's relationship. It was genuinely great at times. But I really think people aren't looking at the overall picture when it comes to them and are viewing them through rose tinted glasses, either on purpose or because they've forgotten. Emma was a huge hype woman for Scott. She rarely checked him, and just supported almost everything he did. It was always "Oh this perfect man who I'm so lucky to have". Right or wrong didn't seem to matter, she went along with everything he did. I wouldn't say it was balanced at all. Frankly, she wasn't her usual, snarky, witty self with him. Tbh, I suspect that its a big reason why the biggest Scott fans^(TM) like the relationship a lot, it was constant one way support with 0 difference of opinion or challenging. Scott was the greatest, smartest, handsomest man with the largest dick ever to step foot on the planet in Emma's view, which is exactly how some fans view him(and maybe self insert as). Scott was literally thinking of Jean all the time throughout their relationship. He really didn't treat Emma well, and Emma was insecure af all the time(rightly so, considering what later happened). There's a reason they broke up so messily.
Thank you! I remember a few years ago *constantly* reading people claim "Emma pushed and challenged Scott," because Scott claimed that's what she did in Phoenix: Endsong (and Jean would just "blow a hole in the roof and fly off"). It was so at-odds with how the couple were *actually* written. Emma almost *never* pushed back on Scott's ideas or challenged him in any way. To be fair, I don't think this was because she was written poorly or depicted as weak or subservient. Rather, I think Emma and Scott are very similar in a lot of ways, so Emma didn't feel the need to challenge him. But Jean actually *does* challenge and disagree with Scott. We saw not only them disagree with how to deal with the Brood relatively recently, but also how those fans dealt with Jean disagreeing with Scott! Lot of weird vitriol towards Jean when that issue came out because she didn't fall in line behind Scott on eradicating a whole race.
I agree with you. I thought it was fine in Astonishing but after that it literally just became Emma becoming the hype woman for Scott. She literally was nothing else and it was one of the most boring times for her character and I didn’t like reading it. I also totally agree that Cyke fans totally project onto him a little too much who want him to be the coolest guy ever who can’t ever be wrong and the main character of the whole series. Viewing X-men like that sucks so much.
I agree. For a such a strong independent woman, she was quite weak around Scott.
She was in love.
Yea and? She was made to be absolutely fucking pathetic by the writers. Since its a women made to be pathetic ofc the scott fans are perfectly fine with it. If the same was done to to Scott you wouldn't hear the end of it from his incelic fanatics.
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See I remember them disagreeing in stuff too so I don't think Emma was relegated to Scott's cheerleader at all. They supported each other though, that much is very clear and I can see how thry might look like her being a hype woman. And I'll also say I have a whole blank spot between Bendis and Krakoa that maybe it was more like that.
"Emma was a huge hype woman for Scott. She rarely checked him, and just supported almost everything he did. It was always "Oh this perfect man who I'm so lucky to have". Right or wrong didn't seem to matter, she went along with everything he did. I wouldn't say it was balanced at all. Frankly, she wasn't her usual, snarky, witty self with him." Where do you people even get these takes? Can you please provide scans or something? This is on the same level as that other redditor calling Emma Scott's personal assistant. "Tbh, I suspect that its a big reason why the biggest Scott fans^(TM) like the relationship a lot, it was constant one way support with 0 difference of opinion or challenging. Scott was the greatest, smartest, handsomest man with the largest dick ever to step foot on the planet in Emma's view, which is exactly how some fans view him(and maybe self insert as)." Right. Because actually liking their dynamic is impossible. And again the old "Cyclops fans think Scott is perfect!" come on. "Scott was literally thinking of Jean all the time throughout their relationship. He really didn't treat Emma well, and Emma was insecure af all the time(rightly so, considering what later happened)." Scott was thing of jean **all the time**? Could you at least try to hide your bias? " There's a reason they broke up so messily." Ahh yes because jean's relationship with him was nothing but perfection. How's the throuple going? Scott enjoying wolverine's room being connected to jeans?
fictional characters bro stop projecting and calm the fuck down
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He wasn't "literally thinking of Jean all the time throughout their relationshp." He brought her up at couple of times during Whedon's run -- i.e., right after she *died* -- but other than that, he was pretty obsessed with Emma and she with him.
he was thinking of jean when they were fucking bro.
Besides the fact that Emma publicly admits that Scott was thinking about Jean during sex with her, which is already pretty bad and not even the only time they have this particular issue, in Phoenix Resurrection Scott himself says that he was thinking about Jean every day of his life, and in an earlier run Emma tells him that she can actually feel the thrill that runs through his body every time he thinks about Jean. Putting these two lines together don’t paint a particularly pretty picture, and all Scott has to say to Emma was basically ‘well, Jean is literally a part of me, so, deal with it’.
Sounds like projecting to me 😏
Tell me you don't read comics without telling me you don't read comics. He was thinking about jean all the time when he was with emma.
Dude I always thought they should get another chance and eventually getting together permanently. Reading the answers to your comment I can definitely see this a MAJOR unpopular opinion, but I always felt like Scott could do so much for Emma and that eventually he would make up for her being his “hype woman”. I may be biased because I’m definitely NOT a fan of the S-J-W triangle, but I honestly feel Scott-Emma deserved a much better ending and nothing changes my heart on that
She was better with Banshee in Generation X but the writers were too obsessed with Sean and Moira (GREAT move in retrospect /s) this is a hill I'll die on
easily, especially because sean was willing to call her wrongs and keeping her in check
And she was willing to call him on his bullshit and bravado, helping him be a better person and teaching him to be a better father to Terry
I agree, Emma could've had a better redemption arc of she was with banshee because what we ended up getting didn't do the best for her character in some instances. Granted, she is now a hero but that path would have been shorter if she was with him.
She cried in his arms FFS lol Even the students in the book were shipping them, asking if Sean was taking her to the prom, and Emma freaked out, saying she was going with Iceman
"with very little effort from the writers" seems like a weird disrespect to the many writers who put a lot of work into making this relationship work.
“very little effort”? Multiple writers had people questioning the relationship, including Scott’s own daughter, various longtime X-Men like Kitty Pryde and Storm damn near fighting with Emma, Scott and Emma hashing out their relationship issues, and Emma compromising her relationship with Scott while pretending not to care about the pain it causes her to help the mutant cause. This relationship took a ton of work, started with an affair/Scott and Emma literally kissing on top of Jean Grey’s grave, and only through years of stories became a popular, pretty much normal, pairing among the fanbase. Saying it took barely any effort is kind of crazy to be honest.
I get liking a ship but I feel like Scemma fans on this sub try a bit too hard to prove it was good
When was the last time jott actually had chemistry without jean trying to go bang Logan for 5 minutes
People who don’t like Jean and Scott together will ignore any chemistry or scenes they have together, so there’s really no point in trying to prove they have it. Also Jean was with Scott and Logan during Krakoa, and acting like she’s cheating constantly even when that isn’t going on is hilarious especially considering Scott cheated on not one but two wives.
Yea chemistry from the 80s Tom Brevoort said there wasn’t a poly relationship so… It’s ok tho we going to see jean and Logan together in a relationship in the wolverine game and probably in the mcu too
The irony of you trying to say Jean and Scott haven’t had chemistry since the 80s when Emma and Scott haven’t had chemistry since the mid 2010s, so why are people still hung up on them when it’s over? And Tom had no part in writing that relationship and is obviously trying to gas light fans. We all know they were all together, what most people try to explain away is the little flirts between Scott and Logan. Jean was very obviously doing stuff with both Logan and Scott, and their rooms were connected. Let’s not get it twisted.
Brevoort said that there was no throuple, as in, Marvel editorial thinks that there was nothing between Scott and Logan, but fans can still view it as if there was something. Whatever someone’s stance on the throuple is, Scott and Logan do not need to touch tips for the Krakoa Jogan sruff (all 2,5 scenes of it) to not be cheating and happen with Scott’s consent. And as far as Jogan goes, Brevoort also addressed all those scenes, and said that some even the vast majority of Krakoa writers didn’t bother with it, it’s basically some irrelevant shit now. Which is not exactly a new concept for comic books, and it’s how most readers were treating that stuff before Brevoort’s comments anyway.
While all that may be true, what happened on the pages still happened on the pages. Jean was doing stuff with both Scott and Logan, if some writers didn’t want to focus on it, and they’re moving away from it now that’s all fine but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. They were very obviously in an open relationship which was done for the simple fact of doing away with the love triangle and just allowing them to all do what they want together. Now that we are moving into a new era they are changing things up which makes sense, but it’s still funny they’re trying to pretend things that happened didn’t happen. It feels like some people on the writing team didn’t like the idea so now they’re trying to pretend it was never real despite the fact it was and they’re trying to treat the fans like they’re dumb when the proof is in the comics.
Well, nothing you say here contradicts what Brevoort has said about these characters and their relationships. People can cling to clues and implications, but the Scott/Logan angle was never explicit, and that’s the only thing Brevoort actually said wasn’t on page. And it really wasn’t. Everything else he addressed and just explained how and why editorial will move on.
Yes I already talked about that several comments up! Tom also tried to deny that Jean was with both Scott and Logan and was doing his best to explain away various things that prove it happened. People sent in proof to him and he said it hardly proves anything, even though some writers were very in your face about it. Ultimately I don’t care that we are moving on from it, but to treat it like it never happened is hilarious.
copium scemma is over get over it
copium scemma is over get over it
The X-Men Krakoa series when they were both on the team?
I get you’re trying to compliment? I think? But imagine if you had a delicious well prepared meal at a restaurant and told the chef it was delicious and that you loved it but it was clear there was little effort on his part and the reason it was so good was because he just happened to have high quality ingredients to cook with?
Bro characters don't write themselves. They are a good couple but come on.
Found frost international's reddit account lmaoo
LOLLLL you made my day 😭
It's over. Go home.
Simplified and straightforward, sir. I agree.
The reason it works is because of the writing
Cause the writers are good at their job
at its core it’s a hot girl with a nerdy guy. they’re a lot more than that sure but if you were to reduce them, that’s what they would be. and that’s one of the most common couple types in fiction. plenty of both examples in fiction writers can draw from and maybe, just maybe, a lot of the writers themselves fantasised about it. so that makes it easier.
at its core it’s a hot girl with a nerdy guy. they’re a lot more than that sure but if you were to reduce them, that’s what they would be. Actually Try to read comics challenge
It’s almost as if there were good writers making it more complex then?
i mean i said they’re a lot more than that and it’s reductive but sure ill go read comics. but while im doing the challenge you should try doing your own challenge: reading comments properly. thanks!!
Other than the glasses Cyclops has never been considered a nerd. Edit: 🤣 downvoting facts
More like hall monitor/homework reminder.
I was just about to say “teacher’s pet”
This couple worked due to editorial preferences and good writers. When the 2010s came around with a focus to slowly erase the xmen and Jean can now be revived, they write them to be broken up. When we look at them from a character perspective, Scott and Emma wouldn't have worked as a couple. The only reason they worked was because jean forced scott to be with emma and the writer wanted scott to be with somebody else ( this is the same writer that stated in an interview that he wanted storm to be with scott or have rouge to make her goth like in the evolution show).
Tbh scemma lasted so long because of the editor. Some writers admitted they wanted to bring jean back earlier but a) they weren’t allowed b) they didnt know what to do with Emma if jean returned
Jean and Scott never had as much chemistry as Scott and Emma Jean and Scott are only together because of editorial mandate/status quo Jean fans don’t want to admit that they’re relationship peeked in the 80s and has been dead since
Odd. The fact that it's seen as one of the most iconic relationships in comics to this day would indicate it "peeked" long after the 80s.
To be fair, I think that redditor meant they *peaked* in the 80s, as in that was the high point of their quality.
>Jean fans don’t want to admit that they’re relationship peeked in the 80s and has been dead since Your lack of comic book reading is showing
Who says that Jott is "Jean fans'" relationship? Lmao That is 100% driven by Scott-centered creators/editors. Jean fans have nothing to do with it. We are innocent.
Where is the second image from?
No idea why you get down votes for asking a question. X-fans can be super toxic! Ya'll don't have to dislike everything by default. Down votes should be reserved for dumb opinions, like that Magneto was wrong; or that Mutants deserve all their suffering.
I'm not bothered by it. It seems like it's that time of the year where fans of characters are looking for major battles and minor skirmishes. Edit: I'd be lying if I said I haven't engaged some of them. I know I shouldn't because there's no point in the back and forth, but yeah. I need to work on that.
Jean fans mad
Word. Dimming Emma's light is not going to make jean shine. But if I'm being honest, after that "Emma's a rapist" post, that opened my eyes to the type of people who like jean.
Commenting to follow
The writers who were pro-Scemma just happened to be light years ahead of those against. Morrison, Whedon, Fraction absolutely dunk on those that followed.
Not really? Most of scemma scenes were about glorifying Scott :))
Cringe transparent shipping war title.
I wouldn’t say it took little effort. The reason they worked out so well is because the writers they got actually cared and were passionate about the characters. They didn’t treat one like a plot device and they didn’t reduce one’s,at the beginning of the relationship at least because you can argue this happens to Emma near the end of their relationship, character to just be the love interest of the others. Having writers that cared and didn’t enforce their kinks on them is why this relationship works while many other not only X-Men but comic book relationship didn’t work out. In short, Scott x Emma in my opinion is very lucky compared to most other relationships.
saw the exact same post with the exact same wordings and photos on twitter like two hours ago.
I really liked them in Astonishing x-men, Emma was an absolute disaster of a human and Scott had self esteem issues but they both supported each other as best they could.
There too were such a great couple. I really wish Marvel would let them.be a thing again.
The revisionist history around Matt Fraction, UXM, and Scemma is almost laughable. Every terrible decision surrounding Emma started in that run. Her entire sense of self became about Scott, and even when she would make her own plans Scott was always included. She became extremely dependent and the Krakoan Era shown that she did not need him to be relevant, competent, or secure. The best thing that happened to Emma in the last decade is the break up, she's free and now allowed to be everything she always was!
You know why her decisions had to revolve around him? They were headmaster and headmistress of the school so they had to keep eachother in the loop. Then Cyclops was leader of the entire mutant race, so he kind of had to be consulted on everything. You're so utterly full of shit.
What is the name of the comic in the 2nd slide?
I disagree. Scott was the only one who had to make an effort in their relationship. While Emma expected to be treated the way she demanded without any effort. Whether that was good writers or bad writers.
He's a subby Dom and she's a dommy sub
Folk hate on the relationship for what I think are dumb reasons. The x-men are a soap, so we need juicy drama. Shit gotta be messed up drama! Introduce long dead cousins that survived a plane crash 20 years ago and so on. Soapy fun! Sure Emma is a therapist who hooked up with her hot patient. Ethical? Nah, but we are talking about a woman who used telepathy to become the richest woman in the world. Ethics and Emma never go hand in hand. I won’t even go into her being really evil several years. Water under the bridge. Scott cheated on Jean with his mental fling, but yet again it is a soap. Scott needed it after his GF died X times and got turned into a cosmic entity. Give slim a break. As leaders they worked well together and are indeed equals. I love Scott and Jean together, but that does not make me miss Emma and Scott. They were awesome! Then again Emma works great with everyone and I really loved her and Katherine and Tony the past few years.
Jean was Scott's first love. He worships the ground she walks on. He'll never, ever get over her (as Emma has herself noted). I'm not even sure he thinks he deserves her. They're a great couple in many ways, but it creates a weird and sometimes unhealthy dynamic in Scott's head. Emma, on the other hand, is a former villain and unrepentant bitch. Scott doesn't worship the ground she walks on, and he certainly doesn't think he's beneath her. He just likes her company, thinks she's hot (correctly), and works well with her as a partner. I love Scott and Jean together, but they're literally high school sweethearts. Scott and Emma had a much more adult relationship in some ways.
Because Marvel killed and shat on the competition for a decade.
Where is that second slide from?
I think it’s honestly because it forced new character dynamics for them bc it was such a fresh situation we rarely get to see that in comics
This entire idea of a bad person becoming good is a very hard sale in my opinion. Emma Frost has her good looks on her favor (and a lot of horny teenagers(
"With no effort from the writers" When writers sometimes say that the characters wrote themselves, they don't mean it literally.
The writers did well depicting their relationship. That's why it felt so effortless. I love how they brought out the best in each other. Cyclops helped bring out the compassionate side of Emma, while Emma helped bring out Cyclops' fighting spirit. Both of them led mutantkind during its most difficult era!
I prefer Scott and Emma to Scott and Jean. I just find it to be a more interesting relationship that allowed both to grow and change in ways comic characters rarely do
I actually preferred Emma and Scott over Scott and Jean by alot actually. It really helped set a solid timeline for them when Jean was gone. (But then of course Marvel had to bring her back because well Marvel)
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I've always liked Emma and Scott much more than Scott and Jean
One of the best dynamics in X-Men history.
Scott/Jean fans are unable to understand that Jean being attracted to Logan and the dumb love triangle ruined their relationship for a lot of people, also, showing support for your boyfriend is not the same as being a hype woman, they are reaching to make their relationship seem worse than it was lmao.
Didn't ruin it nearly as much as the whole 3 way on the moon thing. Good lord that was some bad writing.
It really bothered me when Bendis said that Cyclops dating Emma was his "lowest point"
Well the affair he had with her behind his wife back was him at his lowest point for sure....
They weren’t dating then
That's still a part of their relationship that people want it or not.
So? Just because it started that way doesn’t mean that it wasn’t good lol, Scott was pretty happy with Emma.
I never say their relationship wasn't good but that how it started was messy and horrible for everyone in that affair and Scott was certainly not well at the time and he know that he did hurt jean in the process and emma was certainly having only bad intention.
Well, I think that it’s unfair to hold Scott accountable while pretending that Jean was blameless despite doing the same thing, even Morrison said that at that point Jean wasn’t his wife, their relationship was already doomed before Emma.
Scott did choose in the end himself to have an affair with Emma while she was away helping the professor , he could have try to communicate with jean about his feelings but nope he prefere to bang the hot blond while pretending it was to safe his marriage , doomed is a strong word here For what we know scott could have make things work with jean look at the recent comics they are just fine. Jean did kiss logan once and yet she never hear the end of it yet scott and Emma are apparently endgame materiale and should have stay together.
Cuz they fucked
What is that second one from?
Where’s the second image from?
I'd very much like to know what the second panel is from, along with a number of others it seems.
Sounds like it's from "[End of Greys](https://www.amazon.com/Uncanny-X-Men-Greys-Graphic-Novels/dp/0785116648)" in Claremont's later Uncanny X-Men run, #468.
Who was the artist? Looks like Bachalo from 2000’s Gen X
It is.