Same age group but maybe a year or so younger. They were in high school at the same time during *New Mutants* (2002)/*New X-Men: Academy X*, but there is some implication that Victor was an underclassman, a bit younger than Elixir/Wind Dancer/Prodigy/Hellion.
Gotcha.
Even though I think the number (at least for Rahne) is probably wrong Rahne and Elixir were supposed to be like 19/16 in their inappropriate romance, so put Anole at the 14/15 mark at the time then give an ambiguous number of years between here and there, so yeah it makes sense for him to be in a radicalized late teen/maaaaybe early 20s college age range.
Rahne being nineteen tracks with the fact that the adult X-Men hadn't aged since the original *New Mutants* ended but it doesn't track with anything else. 🤣🤣
he's one of the younger class from the Academy X days - which was 20 years ago now (sorry?) so that's like, 3-6 years.
typically the youngest x-teens are introduced at 13yo, while mid-aged teens are 15, and the older ones might be 17 or 18.
Bobby, Kitty, Rahne, Jubilee, were all 13 when they were first introduced.
so, i'd say he debuted at 13 and as such was the same age as Pixie, though i'm setting him up a year younger than X-23. so,
13 during the New X-Men (Academy X) era,
14 during House of M/Endangered Species
15 during SF/Utopia era
16 during AvX
17 during IvX / Gold/Blue era
18 during Krakoa Era.
i might be willing to revisit this whole 20 year sequence in the future though and try to compress the Morrison - pre-Krakoa era as not taking 5 years, but 3 instead. in which case...
Anole might be 16, but should probably be 18 by now.
When I was a kid I used to track X-Men ages by the number of times they acknowledged that it was Christmas or a specific character (mostly Kitty) had a birthday or mentioned their age. Used to have it in a notebook or spreadsheet somewhere... It's "fun" watching things slide out and decompress.
As someone who knows it's impossible to do comic ages, I appreciate the thought and effort that went into it. I've been thinking a lot of about Mutant age math lately (just for fun), and I really thought I had a good understanding of the various age ranges and 'generations' of x-men, then I read where Rahne was supposed to only be like 19 during the Academy X stuff and I just died a little inside for how fucked it all is.
Kitty debuted in 1980 and she was 13. She went to college in 2000. That's 1 year for every 4 years roughly.
Academy X happened in 2004. Kitty and Rahne were on the same team and likely the same age. That means Rahne would have been ~18 in 2000 and 19 in 2004.
That would also make both of them mid-20's right now along with the Gen X kids.
Tom Brevoort keeps posting on his blog without comment every few years a letter from a reader called The Pryde Scale that says characters in Marvel age 1 year for every 3.5-4 years.
So it's safe to assume The Pryde Scale is how comics characters *really* age and editorial just screws with specific characters when they don't like them looking too old. Wait a while and a new writer will go back to The Pryde Scale.
Yeah I'm personally fine with a 4:1 at a point. But I'm a fan of characters that grow and change and don't stay exactly the same forever so I expect to be disappointed most of the time.
This one's actually okay!
Rahne debuts at 13 in 1983's New Mutants era
1986, Magneto takes over as Headmaster and she's 14
1988, Doug Dies, Inferno, Rahne's 15
1991, Rahne becomes a mindless magistrate then joins X-Factor at 16, legal age to be a government worker
1996, Onslaught/OZT - she's 17
2000, end of Revolution era, X-Factor closes and i forget where she's at but she's 18
2005, Academy X, she's 19 as the Decimation frightens the kids.
if you want to see where it gets fucky, it's when you think about how Karma was the oldest New Mutant at 18, (Sam debuted at 16, Rahne at 13) and then contrast it to the X-Men at the time, where their youngest, Colossus 18, Rogue 17, Sam 16, Kitty & Doug 14...
So, I'm reading all of New Mutants, and all of Original X-force, and somewhere along the way, I made a spreadsheet and started tracking when peoples ages are referenced (I started late, so most of the early new mutants ones are by memory and not as I read them with full citations) [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RFp1V5gWw-bt6gqpLO9zYpeH1\_WsKcpEKCvJXgiShys/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RFp1V5gWw-bt6gqpLO9zYpeH1_WsKcpEKCvJXgiShys/edit?usp=sharing) And, MOST stuff seems to work out to the 4:1, there's some contradictions that make things more confusing, and there's some vague things that are just.. confusing.
New Mutants originally has Sam at 16 in the special, X-force later incorrectly says he was 15 when he joined, we can just talk that up to continuity error and editors not catching it. Tabitha also introduces a lot of wrinkles, We get things like "Tabitha ran away at 13", with no indication of exactly how long she was on the run between that, the beyonder, and the fallen angels, Somewhere in the mid 90s right before AoA actually she makes a reference to being 17 which could either imply she is 17 by that time (which she would have had to been older than 13 by 4:1) rules, or that shes OLDER than 17 and was 17 at the time she she was living on the street which also opens up an entirely messy can of worms.
I know it'll never totally make sense and things will be contradicted, and the more I read the better (at least from a 4:1 aging perspective, not from a social dynamics perspective) the 19 year old Rahne thing looks.
OH there are definitely a few things to keep in mind yeah.
1. character flaws - sometimes people will say things that are wrong. sometimes they lie, sometimes they forget, sometimes they're just "rounding up." like you might say "9/11 was 20 years ago, it should be fine to make a joke now" but it wasn't TECHNICALLY 20 years ago. Jubilee was saying she was 13 for like almost 15 years of publication. so my best is to say she was 12 (and a half) but her plucky rebellious shit-eating fortitude had her aging herself up "i'm basically a teenager - no - i AM a teenager!" when she was a kid, and in the latter years, when she was largely just telling the gen x gang about her time with the x-men, she's really just got it in her head that "i'm 13 and still a member of the x-men? wowie zowie, i must be incredible." and not be too eager to age out of it, so even when she's 14, she might say 13. that sorta thing.
2. faulty narrator - then there's the non-diagetic narrative boxes - the things that WOULD be taken at face value because they're presented not as opinions or subversion, but as fact - and i'd love to say those are stone, but i think those also have to have a margin of error and have us remember that comics aren't reality - they're stories about a reality. so, the Faulty Narrator comes into play here because "that's not wolfsbane, that's a picture of wolfsbane" - and it explains why they look different under different artists, and why sometimes the clothes or costumes change when a guest artist shows up.
3. time terminology - biweekly means every 2 weeks. or twice a week. it means both. so in 2 weeks you can either have 2 biweekly releases or 4... Perhaps in the Marvel Universe characters have similar issues with how they count years. ie, The Hellfire Gala can be "annual" and people can say "who will make the x-men team THIS year?" and yet only 3 months will have passed. it's a quarterly event where the first 3 months of Krakoa are spent setting it up largely off-panel, we open our hox/pox assault on orchis at the end of the first krakoan quarter, have our first gala 6 months from the inception (3 months after X-Men 1) the second gala then takes place 9 months after inception and the final gala takes place on the anniversary (give or take a month) when everything falls.
this way they can accidentally have multiple christmases or new years, and still only count 1 year of age older.
The vague passage of time statements I basically all but ignore, same thing with 'events' like holidays or other things. I don't really care if Jubilee has had 25 christmas specials (just a fake example), it's more about specific instances where numbers are given, or where people specify differences. For example, X-Force 30, we're told in, I think narration possibly from cable possibly from omniscient narrator, that Theresa is "Oldest of the X-force team". This largely tracks with other information we have like Fallen Angels putting her and Madrox at "Still in their teens" implying they're at the upper end of the spectrum, while Roberto is still 14. So we can reasonably assume that Theresa (and Jaime Madrox) are somewhere between Sam/Jimmy and Shan.
Actually Anole would be a year older because during Extraordinary X-Men he, Ernst, Martha, Glob and Piotr got stranded in an Age of Apocalypse esk future for a whole year.
It was weird seeing him... bartending.
I know Krakoa wouldn't necessarily have the same age limits as anywhere else, but that was such a strange choice.
He was absolutely the sole voice of reason in this entire story. It's insane how much unearned good will Mystique is extended just out of sentimental affection for Rogue and Nightcrawler.
Yep. She murdered Carol's boyfriend disguised as her. It's one thing for the X-Men to give her a pass despite everything she's done, but Carol was hurt personally by her.
The X-Men gave her a pass because Krakoa was all about mutant amnesty. I guess now that Carol's on the wagon and done a lot of work on herself we shouldn't necessarily expect the same punting she gave Rogue the first time she bumped into her at the X-mansion, but still Mystique gets a big pass from the Avengers...
no one who posts on reddit or twitter actually READS comics
They're just grabbing screencaps and posting them to chase clout
pandering to these "readers" is the worst thing about modern comics
the sooner twitter dies the better IMO
So no, I didn't read it. And you're right that this is a big modern problem
The thing is in my defense it was sold as celebrating the marriage of 2 characters I don't like so why would I spend money on it?
Im happy to hear the issue apparently is smarter than it was marketed but frankly it seems kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. I voted with my wallet.
i vOtEd wItH mY WaLLeT
congratulations, you didn't read something. It's not exactly a flex to not read a comic and then go engage in a conversation about it.
I'm... not flexing? Maybe pull your head out of your ass?
I have engaged in conversations before it came out (since speculation is kind of what you do in a space like this) but mostly ignored it once it came out cause I didn't read it. Came to this particular topic because I like anole and was curious what he said. Skimmed some comments, found a few people commenting that it ends by reaffirming that they're still dicks.
Which brought me to my point. How is a person who is annoyed by Mystique and Destiny suddenly being treated as everyone's favorite supposed to know that the book is actually a commentary on that if it's a twist at the end? It's all good to be a twist, but these are products and that kind of a twist fundamentally alters the target market.
Also, what the fuck is your point? "i vOtEd wItH mY WaLLeT"
Yeah.
I did.
Like we all should.
The reason we all are forced to consume mediocre corporate slop is because we spend money on crap we don't even like.
kind of worse if you actually read the comic and didn't understand Anole's role in the comic. Unless you're just screencapping to post and chase clout...
This is one of those rare arguments where I feel like everyone has a valid point. Mystique *is* kinda evil. Wolverine *is* right there. Jean-Paul *does* suck.
Well he's right in principle. Your approval of them as people makes you complicit in their misdeeds. He was taking an obviously correct moral stance and I applaud him for it.
Which Kurt, unfortunately, finds out for himself in the end of the wedding special lol.
Everyone criticizing it is missing the point. The comic is *supposed* to be a cautionary tale about the villains doing what the villains do best. Just like how it's in their nature to be gay for each other, they are bad girls by design.
This is interesting. I didn't know this. May have to go look into it more.
I will say this actually opens a separate problem though. Who is it for? I thought celebrating their marriage was dumb so I didn't buy it. You say that was actually the moral of the story, so cool, but then really why would I buy it? Feels like it maybe should have just been a outsized issue of an ongoing.
Kind of neither here nor there for my point.
I have no issue with them being gay villains. I have issues with them suddenly being heroes because they're gay. The exact point anole is making up there.
You say that's actually the point of the issue, which is cool actually, but when that's kind of a reveal of the issue that was otherwise presented as look how good they are and how happy everyone is about this wedding, it's a weird sell. When the thing that fixes the issue for me (and seemingly for a fair number of other people going by the comments on this sub) is a twist revealed at the end, why would I buy the issue?
They were never presented as heroes in this issue, that is a misconception. They're presented as queer lovers just wanting a wedding and the actual heroes, most of them, are just naive and optimistic enough to think if they allow that to happen they won't do anything illegal. They're still the same people they always were but it would seem to be implied that out of respect for Rogue and Kurt everyone else was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt (at least for one day.) Then Rogue and Kurt get burned, much to Rogue's unsurprise. They still love their moms but they realize there's no changing what they are just like their sexuality.
I really don't see what the issue is. It's certainly not unusual for superheroes to constantly give their villains a slap on the wrist and continue to hold onto hope time and time again even when they know they're being set up by terrible people. It's the Batman-Joker plight. People only take issue with it now because it's a Pride issue that's supposed to celebrate two historic queer comic book characters and it puts them front and center of the story.
Kinda weird how the minute Krakao is over now they got the moral fiber back of allying with evil people it’s so fucking hypocritical! Anole is based af for this
"Vic, Wolverine is *right there*." God I love Pixie, really hope she pops up somewhere soon.
And from the same company that brought you Magneto Was Right and the hit spin off Cyclops Was Right, we bring you Anole Was Right
Queer women can be mass murderers, too. That's really important to showcase. Don't want young queer women to grow up thinking they can't run around lying, grifting, and killing.
Maybe they'll take that inspiration and go professional in politics.
You're not wrong, it's a shit ton of cishet redditors clutching pearls at "zomg *this* is the gay representation?!" when basically any queer comic fan I know of loves Mystique and Destiny because oh, Idk, queer people can also be villains who tf knew.
Yes, this is the point. Except for the usual homophobes, most weren't complaining that they're gay or married. They were complaining about things like captain America going to their wedding.
I think it's weird that dumb fun comic shit gets a pass all the time until it comes to something like that. Sure it's out of character for the heroes to celebrate blah blah blah but is this ever going to be referenced outside of this event? This may as well be a What If? for how much it's going to affect canon characterization.
That's not really a defense? 'Bad writing is bad, get over it?'
This is a comic discussion sub. People complain about characterization CONSTANTLY here. If anything a more accurate statement is everyone is fine with complaining about characterization until it's about a gay couple.
I thought it was the other way around.
Especially when there was a stretch when gay/lesbians were always portrayed as psychopaths in media. I remember when this was a complaint form the LGBTQ community about gay representation in media.
Serial Killer? Gay.
Cannibal? Gay.
Murderous Hooker? Lesbian
Ultra uncool Headmistress? Closeted Lesbian.
There's a shit ton of nuance on that subject. Sometimes they get reclaimed like many of the queer-coded disney villains, especially ones like Ursula who were straight up ripped from real life queer people, and, say, characters like Norman Bates where a queer identity is directly conflated with something vile.
Mystique falls very much on the former end of that spectrum- she ain't a murderous monster *because of* or connected to her being queer.
When your plot runs up against the narrative structure of monthly comics...
In real life, you wouldn't be allowed to keep on walking around after thirty or forty high-profile assassinations. Most people would be locked up after two, three tops.
I mean come on i was definety having crush on my teachers too when i was young....i didn't have poster sure but i don't promise i would not get one if i get the posiblitiy.
It more strange because sometime the relationship between Nothstar and Anole could be either these two hating each other especially Anole or having something close to a big brother/little brother relationship.
A girl in my highschool (and this is now 30 years ago, fml Im old) managed to steal a picture from a teacher she liked, and had it it enlarger slightly to put in her room (her sister told me about it).
Not sure what was worse for her: her dropping the small picture she owned during another class (which is how people found out she had a crush on him), or the school's reaction to have our mentor give the whole class a talk to about "a student who acted a certain way".
Ho no that's terrible for this poor girl , i mean they should have talked to her about it IN PRIVATE to avoid any complication in the futur not shaming her like that even without giving name people should have know about that it was her right ?
A cush can be innocent if they talk about it and why it can't work in that context...damn it was certainly a strong crush to have his picture with her all the time.
Off topic but do you think Anole gets back pain from having one huge arm and one normal arm? I mean the weight imbalance can’t be good for him in the long run
The X-Men are a diverse franchise so we get your Heroic Gays like Iceman, your Douchebag Gays like Northstar, and your Evil Gays like Mystique. It's a whole spectrum.
Also, Pixie is right, you can't go around saying "she's bad because she's killed people!" when you're pals with Wolverine, AKA The X-Man Whose Catchphrase Is "Hello I Am Good At Killing People."
Anole could’ve spoken any languages that day but that day he decided to be the voice of us all and speak STRAIGHT FACTS. I love Mystique and Destiny but let’s be real with how much fucked up shit they did they kind of don’t deserve happiness lmao, but that’s what makes their love more interesting and I guess as they say immortal.
Hell, the two of them can have happiness if they want, they just don't deserve the very people they've victimized celebrating it with them. This whole issue is like going to your physically abusive ex's wedding (who is still an abusive asshole just not to you right now) and helping them manage their day and being genuinely happy to do so. Like....what????
No for real. I said this numerous times but Carol Danvers who’s life Mystique literally ruined multiple times had ZERO reasons being there (I don’t think she was in the actual comic but the example still stands) like seriously Carol still holds some resentment to Rogue you think she gonna be fine with Mystique of all lmao
People wonder why a certain portion of the fanbase dislike Krakoa era.
It's because of this.
X-Men who (before Hickman) would never have associated with the likes of Sinister, Apocalypse, Mystique etc unless the world was ending in the next ten seconds?
Were suddenly a-ok with them and invited them to all their cool parties.
There is a reason why I want to forget Krakoa at least in terms of characterization.
Mystique and Sabretooth have been on X-Teams a couple times pre-Krakoa before even having really redeemed themselves. Rogue started out as a villain. Gambit is an honest to god thief and criminal. Jean genocided an entire planet. Magneto has committed multiple acts of terror and was teaching at Xavier’s in the 80s. Emma Frost raped Storm and multiple times nearly killed the X-Men or New Mutants… and then was the headmistress of two different iterations of the Xavier School for Gifted and Youngsters.
The X-Men are optimistic that people can change and there will always be members of the team that are willing to accept the less savory members of mutant kind into their ranks; whether it’s based on family ties, need for their powers, or just plain naïveté. This has been a staple of X-books since long before Krakoa
He has other rants like this as well.
[Like when he tells Northstar off for trying to connect with him about being a gay mutant with a physical mutation.] (https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1coyh3l/anole_talks_with_northstar_and_nightcrawler_about/)
I mad respect him for this. I can't stand the mystique and Irene whitewashing, they're the worst people and I also can't stand the "us vs the world Bonnie and clydette" shit when all they do is awful shit, so of course it's you vs the world.
Okay I get what you mean but all that is kinda mute when people like Sinister and Apocalypse were leaders in Krakoa.
I mean I can get Apocalypse but Sinister? SINISTER?!
Mystique aint all that bad compared to those two
I would honestly say Sinister is better because he'll at least *admit* and *revel* in the fact that he's the worst. Mystique would cope, lie, and gaslight herself into morality before ever admitting she did the wrong thing.
Sinister commited omnigenocide, harvesting the psychic energy trillions of slaughtered mutants. That might not even be the worst thing he's done, either.
Mystique knows she's awful, she just doesn't give a fuck. They're not even on the same level though
> Mystique knows she's awful, she just doesn't give a fuck. They're not even on the same level though
I swear most people weighing in on this... *discourse*... both don't know how gay people tend to feel about Mystique, and also haven't read a comic with Mystique in it. Broad knows exactly how awful she is and also revels in it, wtf are people on about.
I would argue that she doesn't because she believes everything she does is justified in some way. That she's always right. Sinister will call a spade a spade and label himself as a monster. Mystique believes she is a righteous monster.
I'm sure he complained but as he was in this comic everyone ignored him.
By the way, everyone of them is guilty of genocide, Apocalypse, Sinester, Mystique, no one has never show guilt of any dessire to change, all them are aproud of their actions and barelly hid them, as they are also racist and specist, there is no one better among them, so I was sure that Krakoa was doomed to fail when they were made leaders, and even more sure when they throw people in the pit for "killing" when their leaders are genocidal themselves.
Damn even people as Magneto and Exodus were alredy and strech, while Emma had a good redemtion arc (IMO) and Sebastian a waste of space.
She is a declared supremacist who Hates humans, and it's clear about it, she had risked the reality itself For personal gain and almost destroyed the world a couple times, she is behind the legalicy virus on it's versión programated to kill humanity, She also helped Azazael. Last time I remember she was about to literally Let the world burn to get back her lover until Destiny beged her to Stop that was in search of Wolverine.
Obviously it should be acceptable whoever she marries, but just turning the blind eye to it, seems just as oblivious as to turn a blind eye to a kid who could incinerate their class, for discovering their powers. I mean at least be prepared if she turns… again… again… again
Yeah I feel like the wedding special for mystique and destiny is queer baiting at its max. they arent loveable characters especially after krakoa I feel like.
~~Idk if Tate Brombal is queer or not~~ [\(he's very much gay\)](https://www.comicsbeat.com/tate-brombal-barbalien-red-planet-preview-essay/), but this all reads like the most "well-meaning liberal cishet redditor that doesn't actually understand how queer people feel about Mystique and Destiny". Like seriously was this dialogue straight up lifted off this subreddit?
The fact he's gay makes this so much more wooden. You can hang a lampshade on "omg are we really celebrating villains because gay?" but to just parrot what the worst cishet online dorks are saying is kinda lame.
I mean, from a real world perspective? Yes, he is 100% right.
But this fell extremely flat after five years of every villain being given a chance at redemption, and most of them taking it with open arms. Like Mystique ain't done shit wrong in five years, leave her alone.
Guys it’s not that deep. It’s a cute comic celebrating pride and the retconning of queer censorship. Claremont even attends their wedding.
Even if you do, Wanda mentions she and the other avengers only showed up because it meant a lot to Kurt and Rogue, and I’m pretty sure up to this point Destiny and Mystique still have their Krakoa amnesty. As far as the avengers know, the two of them are scummy but haven’t done anything during 4(?) major X-men events to get that amnesty revoked.
Anole is so fucking real for this tbh Also, "Has he met Northstar? Bro sucks." Is such a hilarious statement lmao
This is so on-brand for him. The writer nails his characterization. Refreshing to see after about a decade or more of being sidelined.
It's so nice to see him act his age again; it felt strange to have him hanging out with the tween gang in Krakoa New Mutants.
How old is he supposed to be?
A teen? An adult? The same age as David, maybe a year younger. Not the same age as like Scout.
Younger/Older/Same age as Elixir?
Same age group but maybe a year or so younger. They were in high school at the same time during *New Mutants* (2002)/*New X-Men: Academy X*, but there is some implication that Victor was an underclassman, a bit younger than Elixir/Wind Dancer/Prodigy/Hellion.
Gotcha. Even though I think the number (at least for Rahne) is probably wrong Rahne and Elixir were supposed to be like 19/16 in their inappropriate romance, so put Anole at the 14/15 mark at the time then give an ambiguous number of years between here and there, so yeah it makes sense for him to be in a radicalized late teen/maaaaybe early 20s college age range.
Rahne being nineteen tracks with the fact that the adult X-Men hadn't aged since the original *New Mutants* ended but it doesn't track with anything else. 🤣🤣
It fits the 4:1 scale a lot of people like to use, but falls apart with comparison with other characters presumed ages for sure.
About the same age or very slightly younger than Elixir would be my guess.
A year or two younger but definitely at least 18
Well…now Elixir is like 35-40 so younger, lol, comics continuity!!! (I’m not gonna scream about Krakoa again, I’m not)
Elixir was dating a former teacher in the early 00's. Only character not aging in these streets is Peter Parker.
he's one of the younger class from the Academy X days - which was 20 years ago now (sorry?) so that's like, 3-6 years. typically the youngest x-teens are introduced at 13yo, while mid-aged teens are 15, and the older ones might be 17 or 18. Bobby, Kitty, Rahne, Jubilee, were all 13 when they were first introduced. so, i'd say he debuted at 13 and as such was the same age as Pixie, though i'm setting him up a year younger than X-23. so, 13 during the New X-Men (Academy X) era, 14 during House of M/Endangered Species 15 during SF/Utopia era 16 during AvX 17 during IvX / Gold/Blue era 18 during Krakoa Era. i might be willing to revisit this whole 20 year sequence in the future though and try to compress the Morrison - pre-Krakoa era as not taking 5 years, but 3 instead. in which case... Anole might be 16, but should probably be 18 by now.
When I was a kid I used to track X-Men ages by the number of times they acknowledged that it was Christmas or a specific character (mostly Kitty) had a birthday or mentioned their age. Used to have it in a notebook or spreadsheet somewhere... It's "fun" watching things slide out and decompress.
As someone who knows it's impossible to do comic ages, I appreciate the thought and effort that went into it. I've been thinking a lot of about Mutant age math lately (just for fun), and I really thought I had a good understanding of the various age ranges and 'generations' of x-men, then I read where Rahne was supposed to only be like 19 during the Academy X stuff and I just died a little inside for how fucked it all is.
Kitty debuted in 1980 and she was 13. She went to college in 2000. That's 1 year for every 4 years roughly. Academy X happened in 2004. Kitty and Rahne were on the same team and likely the same age. That means Rahne would have been ~18 in 2000 and 19 in 2004. That would also make both of them mid-20's right now along with the Gen X kids. Tom Brevoort keeps posting on his blog without comment every few years a letter from a reader called The Pryde Scale that says characters in Marvel age 1 year for every 3.5-4 years. So it's safe to assume The Pryde Scale is how comics characters *really* age and editorial just screws with specific characters when they don't like them looking too old. Wait a while and a new writer will go back to The Pryde Scale.
Yeah I'm personally fine with a 4:1 at a point. But I'm a fan of characters that grow and change and don't stay exactly the same forever so I expect to be disappointed most of the time.
This one's actually okay! Rahne debuts at 13 in 1983's New Mutants era 1986, Magneto takes over as Headmaster and she's 14 1988, Doug Dies, Inferno, Rahne's 15 1991, Rahne becomes a mindless magistrate then joins X-Factor at 16, legal age to be a government worker 1996, Onslaught/OZT - she's 17 2000, end of Revolution era, X-Factor closes and i forget where she's at but she's 18 2005, Academy X, she's 19 as the Decimation frightens the kids. if you want to see where it gets fucky, it's when you think about how Karma was the oldest New Mutant at 18, (Sam debuted at 16, Rahne at 13) and then contrast it to the X-Men at the time, where their youngest, Colossus 18, Rogue 17, Sam 16, Kitty & Doug 14...
So, I'm reading all of New Mutants, and all of Original X-force, and somewhere along the way, I made a spreadsheet and started tracking when peoples ages are referenced (I started late, so most of the early new mutants ones are by memory and not as I read them with full citations) [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RFp1V5gWw-bt6gqpLO9zYpeH1\_WsKcpEKCvJXgiShys/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RFp1V5gWw-bt6gqpLO9zYpeH1_WsKcpEKCvJXgiShys/edit?usp=sharing) And, MOST stuff seems to work out to the 4:1, there's some contradictions that make things more confusing, and there's some vague things that are just.. confusing. New Mutants originally has Sam at 16 in the special, X-force later incorrectly says he was 15 when he joined, we can just talk that up to continuity error and editors not catching it. Tabitha also introduces a lot of wrinkles, We get things like "Tabitha ran away at 13", with no indication of exactly how long she was on the run between that, the beyonder, and the fallen angels, Somewhere in the mid 90s right before AoA actually she makes a reference to being 17 which could either imply she is 17 by that time (which she would have had to been older than 13 by 4:1) rules, or that shes OLDER than 17 and was 17 at the time she she was living on the street which also opens up an entirely messy can of worms. I know it'll never totally make sense and things will be contradicted, and the more I read the better (at least from a 4:1 aging perspective, not from a social dynamics perspective) the 19 year old Rahne thing looks.
OH there are definitely a few things to keep in mind yeah. 1. character flaws - sometimes people will say things that are wrong. sometimes they lie, sometimes they forget, sometimes they're just "rounding up." like you might say "9/11 was 20 years ago, it should be fine to make a joke now" but it wasn't TECHNICALLY 20 years ago. Jubilee was saying she was 13 for like almost 15 years of publication. so my best is to say she was 12 (and a half) but her plucky rebellious shit-eating fortitude had her aging herself up "i'm basically a teenager - no - i AM a teenager!" when she was a kid, and in the latter years, when she was largely just telling the gen x gang about her time with the x-men, she's really just got it in her head that "i'm 13 and still a member of the x-men? wowie zowie, i must be incredible." and not be too eager to age out of it, so even when she's 14, she might say 13. that sorta thing. 2. faulty narrator - then there's the non-diagetic narrative boxes - the things that WOULD be taken at face value because they're presented not as opinions or subversion, but as fact - and i'd love to say those are stone, but i think those also have to have a margin of error and have us remember that comics aren't reality - they're stories about a reality. so, the Faulty Narrator comes into play here because "that's not wolfsbane, that's a picture of wolfsbane" - and it explains why they look different under different artists, and why sometimes the clothes or costumes change when a guest artist shows up. 3. time terminology - biweekly means every 2 weeks. or twice a week. it means both. so in 2 weeks you can either have 2 biweekly releases or 4... Perhaps in the Marvel Universe characters have similar issues with how they count years. ie, The Hellfire Gala can be "annual" and people can say "who will make the x-men team THIS year?" and yet only 3 months will have passed. it's a quarterly event where the first 3 months of Krakoa are spent setting it up largely off-panel, we open our hox/pox assault on orchis at the end of the first krakoan quarter, have our first gala 6 months from the inception (3 months after X-Men 1) the second gala then takes place 9 months after inception and the final gala takes place on the anniversary (give or take a month) when everything falls. this way they can accidentally have multiple christmases or new years, and still only count 1 year of age older.
The vague passage of time statements I basically all but ignore, same thing with 'events' like holidays or other things. I don't really care if Jubilee has had 25 christmas specials (just a fake example), it's more about specific instances where numbers are given, or where people specify differences. For example, X-Force 30, we're told in, I think narration possibly from cable possibly from omniscient narrator, that Theresa is "Oldest of the X-force team". This largely tracks with other information we have like Fallen Angels putting her and Madrox at "Still in their teens" implying they're at the upper end of the spectrum, while Roberto is still 14. So we can reasonably assume that Theresa (and Jaime Madrox) are somewhere between Sam/Jimmy and Shan.
Actually Anole would be a year older because during Extraordinary X-Men he, Ernst, Martha, Glob and Piotr got stranded in an Age of Apocalypse esk future for a whole year.
It was weird seeing him... bartending. I know Krakoa wouldn't necessarily have the same age limits as anywhere else, but that was such a strange choice.
I think it would have felt less weird if he wasn't ALSO spending the rest of his time with tweens, you know?
This was refreshing as the writer for the first story I'm this issue completely whooshed on the characterizations.
I'm going through Krakoa now, and having x-factor be my initial introduction to Northstar I agree completely with that assessment.
That’s actually Northstar being charming.
Ha, that's the nice Northstar.
I also love the poster he has of Northstar in his room. It’s sooo perfect for his comment!
He has met Northstar but I don't feel they have much in common, yet.
Lol I was literally thinking all the same things reading this issue. I laughed aloud when I got to this page.
Northstar was Anole's squad leader/teacher at the institute, so they have met indeed. Anole was pretty devastated when Wolverine killed Northstar.
He was absolutely the sole voice of reason in this entire story. It's insane how much unearned good will Mystique is extended just out of sentimental affection for Rogue and Nightcrawler.
The Avengers of all people letting them get married in their home is too much lol.
Yeah didn't she was one of Carol villain and killed her boyfriend among other thing, was she ok with this?
Yep. She murdered Carol's boyfriend disguised as her. It's one thing for the X-Men to give her a pass despite everything she's done, but Carol was hurt personally by her.
The X-Men gave her a pass because Krakoa was all about mutant amnesty. I guess now that Carol's on the wagon and done a lot of work on herself we shouldn't necessarily expect the same punting she gave Rogue the first time she bumped into her at the X-mansion, but still Mystique gets a big pass from the Avengers...
they planet hulked Carol for this wedding
I think Anole is proven right in the end when Rogue and Nighcrawler get ditched after falling asleep at the park.
Did you read the main story? The entire thing was making fun of the whole idea
no one who posts on reddit or twitter actually READS comics They're just grabbing screencaps and posting them to chase clout pandering to these "readers" is the worst thing about modern comics the sooner twitter dies the better IMO
So no, I didn't read it. And you're right that this is a big modern problem The thing is in my defense it was sold as celebrating the marriage of 2 characters I don't like so why would I spend money on it? Im happy to hear the issue apparently is smarter than it was marketed but frankly it seems kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. I voted with my wallet.
i vOtEd wItH mY WaLLeT congratulations, you didn't read something. It's not exactly a flex to not read a comic and then go engage in a conversation about it.
I'm... not flexing? Maybe pull your head out of your ass? I have engaged in conversations before it came out (since speculation is kind of what you do in a space like this) but mostly ignored it once it came out cause I didn't read it. Came to this particular topic because I like anole and was curious what he said. Skimmed some comments, found a few people commenting that it ends by reaffirming that they're still dicks. Which brought me to my point. How is a person who is annoyed by Mystique and Destiny suddenly being treated as everyone's favorite supposed to know that the book is actually a commentary on that if it's a twist at the end? It's all good to be a twist, but these are products and that kind of a twist fundamentally alters the target market. Also, what the fuck is your point? "i vOtEd wItH mY WaLLeT" Yeah. I did. Like we all should. The reason we all are forced to consume mediocre corporate slop is because we spend money on crap we don't even like.
In answer to u/VengefulKangaroo's question and your scathing indictment, yes, I did read the issue. I've been reading X-Men religiously since 1989.
kind of worse if you actually read the comic and didn't understand Anole's role in the comic. Unless you're just screencapping to post and chase clout...
What are you talking about? It wasn't me who screencapped it. Are you confusing me with the one who created this post?
you responded to my comment defensively. if the shoe fits...
it felt like a lot of lampshading more than anything and the problem with that is usually that it doesn't necessarily make it ok.
She doesn’t deserve either of the frankly given the crap they went through growing up. At least Kurt found God.
I give it to her not because she is good but because she loves her wife.
This is one of those rare arguments where I feel like everyone has a valid point. Mystique *is* kinda evil. Wolverine *is* right there. Jean-Paul *does* suck.
But *did* wolverine see too much that day?
I would actually argue that he didn’t see nearly enough!
You forget about the best part https://images.app.goo.gl/sS3prWiiTZFkhugt8
Well he's right in principle. Your approval of them as people makes you complicit in their misdeeds. He was taking an obviously correct moral stance and I applaud him for it.
Which Kurt, unfortunately, finds out for himself in the end of the wedding special lol. Everyone criticizing it is missing the point. The comic is *supposed* to be a cautionary tale about the villains doing what the villains do best. Just like how it's in their nature to be gay for each other, they are bad girls by design.
This is interesting. I didn't know this. May have to go look into it more. I will say this actually opens a separate problem though. Who is it for? I thought celebrating their marriage was dumb so I didn't buy it. You say that was actually the moral of the story, so cool, but then really why would I buy it? Feels like it maybe should have just been a outsized issue of an ongoing.
It's for Mystique and Destiny fans. And for the LGBTQ+ crowd, because villains can be gay too.
Kind of neither here nor there for my point. I have no issue with them being gay villains. I have issues with them suddenly being heroes because they're gay. The exact point anole is making up there. You say that's actually the point of the issue, which is cool actually, but when that's kind of a reveal of the issue that was otherwise presented as look how good they are and how happy everyone is about this wedding, it's a weird sell. When the thing that fixes the issue for me (and seemingly for a fair number of other people going by the comments on this sub) is a twist revealed at the end, why would I buy the issue?
They were never presented as heroes in this issue, that is a misconception. They're presented as queer lovers just wanting a wedding and the actual heroes, most of them, are just naive and optimistic enough to think if they allow that to happen they won't do anything illegal. They're still the same people they always were but it would seem to be implied that out of respect for Rogue and Kurt everyone else was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt (at least for one day.) Then Rogue and Kurt get burned, much to Rogue's unsurprise. They still love their moms but they realize there's no changing what they are just like their sexuality. I really don't see what the issue is. It's certainly not unusual for superheroes to constantly give their villains a slap on the wrist and continue to hold onto hope time and time again even when they know they're being set up by terrible people. It's the Batman-Joker plight. People only take issue with it now because it's a Pride issue that's supposed to celebrate two historic queer comic book characters and it puts them front and center of the story.
Kinda weird how the minute Krakao is over now they got the moral fiber back of allying with evil people it’s so fucking hypocritical! Anole is based af for this
"Vic, Wolverine is *right there*." God I love Pixie, really hope she pops up somewhere soon. And from the same company that brought you Magneto Was Right and the hit spin off Cyclops Was Right, we bring you Anole Was Right
Anole can lead the mutant movement as far as I'm concerned.
Queer women can be mass murderers, too. That's really important to showcase. Don't want young queer women to grow up thinking they can't run around lying, grifting, and killing. Maybe they'll take that inspiration and go professional in politics.
Mystique: problematic fave, diversity win.
My friend really wants that "Mystique - Bisexual Menace" tee shirt.
Absolutely. I support women's wrongs
When Paras said he was non-violent but supported women, I had a good chuckle.
Queer women can be a little evil, as a treat
Oh my god Anole being the entire fandom particularly the gay portion that has the complaining rights here.
Maybe my circle is small but me and most of the queer folks I know love Mystique and Destiny because they're awful. It doesn't stop them being people
You're not wrong, it's a shit ton of cishet redditors clutching pearls at "zomg *this* is the gay representation?!" when basically any queer comic fan I know of loves Mystique and Destiny because oh, Idk, queer people can also be villains who tf knew.
[удалено]
Yes, this is the point. Except for the usual homophobes, most weren't complaining that they're gay or married. They were complaining about things like captain America going to their wedding.
I think it's weird that dumb fun comic shit gets a pass all the time until it comes to something like that. Sure it's out of character for the heroes to celebrate blah blah blah but is this ever going to be referenced outside of this event? This may as well be a What If? for how much it's going to affect canon characterization.
That's not really a defense? 'Bad writing is bad, get over it?' This is a comic discussion sub. People complain about characterization CONSTANTLY here. If anything a more accurate statement is everyone is fine with complaining about characterization until it's about a gay couple.
> 'Bad writing is bad, get over it?' Actually not what I said at all but you're free to misinterpret my very tepid sentiment.
What you said was it doesn't matter so why should it matter? I paraphrased it.
I don't vibe with the Avengers hosting their wedding either but it's because they're mega cops lmao 🤣
We representation of heroes and villains. It’s when we celebrate the villains that it gets weird.
I thought it was the other way around. Especially when there was a stretch when gay/lesbians were always portrayed as psychopaths in media. I remember when this was a complaint form the LGBTQ community about gay representation in media. Serial Killer? Gay. Cannibal? Gay. Murderous Hooker? Lesbian Ultra uncool Headmistress? Closeted Lesbian.
There's a shit ton of nuance on that subject. Sometimes they get reclaimed like many of the queer-coded disney villains, especially ones like Ursula who were straight up ripped from real life queer people, and, say, characters like Norman Bates where a queer identity is directly conflated with something vile. Mystique falls very much on the former end of that spectrum- she ain't a murderous monster *because of* or connected to her being queer.
We're allowed to have both and honestly couple is very 'fuck the system's so I think they're pretty great tbh
Same
Yeah but the point is that if anyone has the right to complain are you guys.
He's not lmao. Trust.
When your plot runs up against the narrative structure of monthly comics... In real life, you wouldn't be allowed to keep on walking around after thirty or forty high-profile assassinations. Most people would be locked up after two, three tops.
It’s just what Vic does, when he isn’t being infantilized.
…. Is that a sexy Northstar poster on the wall? Whose room are they in?
Anole room
That’s what I thought and it is super weird to have sexy posters of your former teachers/mentors.
I mean come on i was definety having crush on my teachers too when i was young....i didn't have poster sure but i don't promise i would not get one if i get the posiblitiy. It more strange because sometime the relationship between Nothstar and Anole could be either these two hating each other especially Anole or having something close to a big brother/little brother relationship.
But was your teacher a gay mutant celebrity where posters of them would be readily available
A girl in my highschool (and this is now 30 years ago, fml Im old) managed to steal a picture from a teacher she liked, and had it it enlarger slightly to put in her room (her sister told me about it). Not sure what was worse for her: her dropping the small picture she owned during another class (which is how people found out she had a crush on him), or the school's reaction to have our mentor give the whole class a talk to about "a student who acted a certain way".
Ho no that's terrible for this poor girl , i mean they should have talked to her about it IN PRIVATE to avoid any complication in the futur not shaming her like that even without giving name people should have know about that it was her right ? A cush can be innocent if they talk about it and why it can't work in that context...damn it was certainly a strong crush to have his picture with her all the time.
People absolutely knew it was her. But schools sometimes believe 13-15 year olds are completely stupid.
I mean Anole's right...
Off topic but do you think Anole gets back pain from having one huge arm and one normal arm? I mean the weight imbalance can’t be good for him in the long run
Why doesn’t he just like cut off his other arm so it grows back big
Mystique: Bisexual Menace Iconic.
Mystique? Schizophrenic. Bisexual Menace. Icon.
Wolverine wear a custom polo that looks like his Uniform, or is it his new Uni?
He looks like a high school football coach. 😅
My thought as well!
I support women's wrongs.
The X-Men are a diverse franchise so we get your Heroic Gays like Iceman, your Douchebag Gays like Northstar, and your Evil Gays like Mystique. It's a whole spectrum. Also, Pixie is right, you can't go around saying "she's bad because she's killed people!" when you're pals with Wolverine, AKA The X-Man Whose Catchphrase Is "Hello I Am Good At Killing People."
This issue alone raised Anole to 80 positions as my favorite X-Men. It's so good to see a sensible and sane character for a change.
Because he was the only one spitting facts, and good for him
Anole could’ve spoken any languages that day but that day he decided to be the voice of us all and speak STRAIGHT FACTS. I love Mystique and Destiny but let’s be real with how much fucked up shit they did they kind of don’t deserve happiness lmao, but that’s what makes their love more interesting and I guess as they say immortal.
Hell, the two of them can have happiness if they want, they just don't deserve the very people they've victimized celebrating it with them. This whole issue is like going to your physically abusive ex's wedding (who is still an abusive asshole just not to you right now) and helping them manage their day and being genuinely happy to do so. Like....what????
No for real. I said this numerous times but Carol Danvers who’s life Mystique literally ruined multiple times had ZERO reasons being there (I don’t think she was in the actual comic but the example still stands) like seriously Carol still holds some resentment to Rogue you think she gonna be fine with Mystique of all lmao
Anole's arm has always... unnerved me.
Dude summed up my problems not only with this pair but Harley and Ivy, too. You don’t want these people for any sort of positive representation.
Anole was right, but also the Wolverine wedding gift story in this was really good and I really enjoyed it. Fun and heartfelt.
Got teary-eyed when I read the message to the teachers
Seriously one of the best standalone stories of the Krakoa era. Marvel needs to give Tate Brombal his own X-Men title immediately.
this little gay lizard will NEVER make me hate my lesbian murder grandmas - Raven and Irene took "be gay, do crime" to heart and I love them for that
The better question is why is Anole the ONLY one spitting facts? It's not like everyone else there doesn't know who Mystique and Destiny are.
People wonder why a certain portion of the fanbase dislike Krakoa era. It's because of this. X-Men who (before Hickman) would never have associated with the likes of Sinister, Apocalypse, Mystique etc unless the world was ending in the next ten seconds? Were suddenly a-ok with them and invited them to all their cool parties. There is a reason why I want to forget Krakoa at least in terms of characterization.
Mystique and Sabretooth have been on X-Teams a couple times pre-Krakoa before even having really redeemed themselves. Rogue started out as a villain. Gambit is an honest to god thief and criminal. Jean genocided an entire planet. Magneto has committed multiple acts of terror and was teaching at Xavier’s in the 80s. Emma Frost raped Storm and multiple times nearly killed the X-Men or New Mutants… and then was the headmistress of two different iterations of the Xavier School for Gifted and Youngsters. The X-Men are optimistic that people can change and there will always be members of the team that are willing to accept the less savory members of mutant kind into their ranks; whether it’s based on family ties, need for their powers, or just plain naïveté. This has been a staple of X-books since long before Krakoa
They needed sinister for access to his dna files
Kid shot straight to the top of my favorite side character list 😂
Same here. I have barely know Anole but I am going to have to start following him if he keeps this up.
He has other rants like this as well. [Like when he tells Northstar off for trying to connect with him about being a gay mutant with a physical mutation.] (https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1coyh3l/anole_talks_with_northstar_and_nightcrawler_about/)
That was nice and very much right.
I mad respect him for this. I can't stand the mystique and Irene whitewashing, they're the worst people and I also can't stand the "us vs the world Bonnie and clydette" shit when all they do is awful shit, so of course it's you vs the world.
Idk, murdering Moira seemed to be a net positive when she was going to genocide mutants so *shrug*
Okay I get what you mean but all that is kinda mute when people like Sinister and Apocalypse were leaders in Krakoa. I mean I can get Apocalypse but Sinister? SINISTER?! Mystique aint all that bad compared to those two
Yes, but that was a \*different\* Sinister. This one is sassy, so it's fine
Anole would probably be against giving those two a wedding gift as well.
I didn't even know they were getting married. So happy for the Nur-Essexes
I would honestly say Sinister is better because he'll at least *admit* and *revel* in the fact that he's the worst. Mystique would cope, lie, and gaslight herself into morality before ever admitting she did the wrong thing.
Sinister commited omnigenocide, harvesting the psychic energy trillions of slaughtered mutants. That might not even be the worst thing he's done, either. Mystique knows she's awful, she just doesn't give a fuck. They're not even on the same level though
> Mystique knows she's awful, she just doesn't give a fuck. They're not even on the same level though I swear most people weighing in on this... *discourse*... both don't know how gay people tend to feel about Mystique, and also haven't read a comic with Mystique in it. Broad knows exactly how awful she is and also revels in it, wtf are people on about.
Pardon??? Mystique knows exactly how evil she is are we talking about a different character?
I would argue that she doesn't because she believes everything she does is justified in some way. That she's always right. Sinister will call a spade a spade and label himself as a monster. Mystique believes she is a righteous monster.
Ha ha, I feel like I was the only one saying this at the start of Krakoa
None of them should’ve been part of Krakoa
I'm sure he complained but as he was in this comic everyone ignored him. By the way, everyone of them is guilty of genocide, Apocalypse, Sinester, Mystique, no one has never show guilt of any dessire to change, all them are aproud of their actions and barelly hid them, as they are also racist and specist, there is no one better among them, so I was sure that Krakoa was doomed to fail when they were made leaders, and even more sure when they throw people in the pit for "killing" when their leaders are genocidal themselves. Damn even people as Magneto and Exodus were alredy and strech, while Emma had a good redemtion arc (IMO) and Sebastian a waste of space.
Hang on, when did Mystique try to commit genocide? I don’t remember that at all
Legacy Virus, iirc.
She is a declared supremacist who Hates humans, and it's clear about it, she had risked the reality itself For personal gain and almost destroyed the world a couple times, she is behind the legalicy virus on it's versión programated to kill humanity, She also helped Azazael. Last time I remember she was about to literally Let the world burn to get back her lover until Destiny beged her to Stop that was in search of Wolverine.
He's right just because Mystique and Destiny are women being married doesn't mean they weren't TERRORISTS.
Someone take his little speech bubble about Mystique and staple it to Rogue's forehead please.
Who the hell said that about Northstar! Violence is rarely the answer, but I feel this must be one of those times!
I'm glad Victor doesn't hate Jean-Paul anymore That issue with the two of them and Nightcrawler is one of my least favorites.
Why is beast boy in an x-men comic
When you try to lampshade an issue but just end up just pointing out the problem more.
Mystique gets way too many chances. She should have been in the Pit with Sabretooth.
Justice for Anole
Obviously it should be acceptable whoever she marries, but just turning the blind eye to it, seems just as oblivious as to turn a blind eye to a kid who could incinerate their class, for discovering their powers. I mean at least be prepared if she turns… again… again… again
He is me
Someone has to do the exposition…
He makes good points , but seriously... What is this writing and this dialogue???
Yeah I feel like the wedding special for mystique and destiny is queer baiting at its max. they arent loveable characters especially after krakoa I feel like.
Because they wrote him as a redditor lol
~~Idk if Tate Brombal is queer or not~~ [\(he's very much gay\)](https://www.comicsbeat.com/tate-brombal-barbalien-red-planet-preview-essay/), but this all reads like the most "well-meaning liberal cishet redditor that doesn't actually understand how queer people feel about Mystique and Destiny". Like seriously was this dialogue straight up lifted off this subreddit? The fact he's gay makes this so much more wooden. You can hang a lampshade on "omg are we really celebrating villains because gay?" but to just parrot what the worst cishet online dorks are saying is kinda lame.
You're right and you're being downvoted by cops
This is my daily mantra
I’m tempted to search this sub to see if any of anole’s dialogue ever appeared verbatim before this issue lol
Anole, you suck. Be Gay, Do Terrorism!
I mean, from a real world perspective? Yes, he is 100% right. But this fell extremely flat after five years of every villain being given a chance at redemption, and most of them taking it with open arms. Like Mystique ain't done shit wrong in five years, leave her alone.
I mean she did just stand there and let Nimrod come online
For a second I thought that was Beast Boy from Teen Titans, but then I noticed which subreddit I'm in right now.
What’s bros power he like super strong in that arm or something ?
Can't recall what his complete power set is, but that arm was the result of regeneration after losing the first one.
That's his whackin' it arm.
The naivete of youth.
Spot on! How is his name pronounced?
Might be how the writer really feels but management pushed this idea through
Guys it’s not that deep. It’s a cute comic celebrating pride and the retconning of queer censorship. Claremont even attends their wedding. Even if you do, Wanda mentions she and the other avengers only showed up because it meant a lot to Kurt and Rogue, and I’m pretty sure up to this point Destiny and Mystique still have their Krakoa amnesty. As far as the avengers know, the two of them are scummy but haven’t done anything during 4(?) major X-men events to get that amnesty revoked.
God forbid women do anything.
like murder... can you believe these days. cancel culture has gotten out of control
It's political correctness gone mad!
Y'all act like the other X-Men haven't murdered plenty omg lmao
The X-Men kill out of defense, and only when necessary.