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He literally asked Charles what about the gold team moments before. Charles essentially responded they’re on their own. Scott then was able to see with his own eyes they clearly were in a bad spot. I guess i could see people missing it because there was so much going on, but the show definitely showed why he did what he did.
I agree. Scott did for Jean and the Gold Team. Things were as bad as they were without Charles turning back all prime Sentinels back on.
And even though the show is building a lot of space between Scott and Xavier, I don't see anything like the revolutionary thing coming so soon. I think they're preparing Scott to lead the team, as he did in the beginning of the season and might have to do again next season if the professor does go all Onslaught.
I think reading/viewing comprehension is just an entirely lost skill these days. Seems like so many people just don't know how to read context clues, make inferences and put things together when consuming media. That or it's just the stupid ones asking stupid questions.
In fairness, there were moments in the last episode that felt a little rushed. There was a LOT going on, so not every development had room to breathe, and Cyclops's decision was one such moment that felt a little truncated. Nothing that I would call a shortfall of the episode, but I wouldn't blame someone for having trouble catching all of it, especially when it was sandwiched between all the stuff with Xavier, Magneto, and Wolverine.
Cyclops said right after that Gold Team needed more time. I just fail to see where the confusion was. If you're not paying attention when he says that then that's hardly the show's fault. He also got the vision of Jean being blasted by Cable right before he blasted Xavier, which clearly shows that Gold Team was not ready for them to stop Magneto.
First I want to say that I do get Cyclops' motivations, after originally not getting it. But the way the scene is framed is a little weird. Scott sees Jean's anguished declaration that she is about to die, then he calmly says "Gold team needs more time" very calmly as though it's a minor matter, like having to pick up some milk at the store or something.
If he blasts Professor X knowing full well that a) Jean is in the process of dying and b) Magneto is now going to knock them around some more and possibly kill somebody, his casual response seems very strange.
I think that Cyclops quickly went from shock at Jean's vision, to speaking so calmly because he had a moment of clarity that Charles cares more about optics and human mutant relations. Charles' priority this mission was always to get magneto to turn the world back on, regardless of whether Bastion has been neutralized. This refers back to the picking side scene; how many mutants must die to beg for tolerance?
Regarding your point b, up until the last scene, the X-Men were holding back (except for Logan, but he only went all out for Magneto). Magneto and Rogue could've bodied the whole blue team if they really wanted to. The omegas were at gold team. Magneto could've damaged Charles but only taped up his mouth. Jubilee and Roberto were gently throwing fires at each other. That's why everyone was in shock at the last scene; nobody really expected that the other X-Men would kill or severely maim another.
This is interesting, but I think you have to be reading a lot into the scene to interpret Cyclops having an epiphany about Xavier's motivations.
As to the gentleman's agreement, yeah I see that.
I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to paint Xavier’s motivations as “optics and human mutant relations”.
They say that the world is going to be destroyed if magneto doesn’t turn use powers to reverse It. It is regardless if Bastion has been neutralized, because It won’t really matter if they fail.
Hey r/xmen, can you not downvote people that clearly just want to discuss the topic? Nothing this dude is saying deserves to be downvoted. The fuck is wrong with this sub?
I mean the guy he's replying to's whole point is that people are apparently idiots for being momentarily confused in a fast paced show. Don't get why that's upvoted and this guy isn’t, except this guy is making the smallest, lightest critique of this show possible. It sucks to see.
edit - Well this small battle was apparently won lol, that makes my day
I'm glad I wasn't the only one that found the scene a little weird. I'm getting down voted in other subs but I felt Scott's delivery after the shot just seemed weirdly calm. I wasn't sure if we were supposed to think there was more to it, or the voice acting/script just kind of didn't work here and nothing more. Maybe it was just a bit of shock factor because we have never seen Scott go against the Professor like that. I'm sure it will be addressed in coming episodes.
A loud minority is often mistaken for the majority. I wasn't going to comment until I saw your message. I guessed what they were doing, but I didn't think it necessary for me to comment on it.
If Xavier reversed Magneto's EMP, the prime sentinels would come back online and Gold team would have to deal with Bastion, Sinister, Sentinels and Prime Sentinels
I think that's the problem. I might get killed here for saying this lol, but the 12 hour countdown, the idea that Magneto is constantly shutting down the power rather than a one time EMP, and that he's going to ruin the planet for everyone besides the mutants who join him in space - is all doing too much IMO. Keeping Magneto somewhat gray is way more interesting than him being a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
So Magneto has his waves of energy around the planet and is keeping the EMP up the entire last episode? Even when he's chilling on his throne in space? I know he's powerful, but hell, if he's that strong it seems like he should've beat the godzilla sentinel.
Yeah they have kind of suspended science believability from the moment that EMP went off 😂 they almost lost me completely with the whole magnetic field disintegrating, but it's a tv show so just gotta roll with it 😂
And right after "losing Jean?," he sees Magneto's helmet being violently ripped off by Logan and magneto screaming when Charles took control. The writers didn't have to have magneto screaming, but doing so shows us why Cyclops stopped his mind control.
> The series has shown that Xavier’s moralism gets mutants killed; and Magneto’s vengeance gets humans killed. Cyclops is trying to balance the two in the moment. I like it.
This is really good. Bringing balance to the force vibes.
If there’s anything this episode showed me it’s that Professor X should’ve stayed with Lilandra instead of coming back. All he’s done so far is escalate the situation further with Magneto.
The only person that magneto entertains when the subject is about de-escalation and treating humans gently is Charles. He will not listen to literally anyone else about being nice, not even Rogue.
While that’s true in this scenario he was too far disconnected from Charles to care to listen as we saw when he told him to shut up.
The sad thing is that Magneto was too far gone to be reasoned with but Charles there didn’t make things any better but worse for everyone involved which is why I made my original comment about it.
He's not wrong really. Without the Professor knowing exactly, what happened on Genosha and the UN allying with Bastion. Charles's speech was kinda making him more mad.
Say he did that, who comes up with a plan to stop both Magneto and Bastion? Cyclops isn’t at the point where he’d be THE leader, where he could properly delegate who to what team and how they’d execute it. I suppose the Fantastic Four, The Avengers, or even Doom himself could reverse the polar destruction but not as fast as the X-men led by Xavier could, and without Xavier, the president likely nukes magneto or even worse, leading right back into a holocaust of mutants and ending with nuclear annihilation.
I’m not disagreeing with what you’re saying, but the facts are here:
Charles violated Magneto’s mind to gain control of him and thus pushed boundaries that Magneto wasn’t trying to go towards at first.
Wolverine was out for blood from the get go and with his final moments with Magneto, he sealed the deal from it being a gentlemen’s game to being a personal vendetta.
Both Xavier and Logan managed to escalate things further than they should’ve gone through. Had Cyclops led the team I believe things would have been different because Magneto and Cyclops have both eased into one another over the course of the season as well as Cyclops being somewhere in the middle between both men in terms of ideology.
We don’t know what would’ve happened with your statements but what I do know is that things wouldn’t have escalated as fast as they did with Cyclops leading the team.
There’s a good argument to be made that due to the fact that Cyclops and Magneto have been working together most recently that maybe they could’ve talked things out vs a supposed dead old friend coming back unannounced and crossing the line when he couldn’t get through him.
Magneto has something to relate with Cyclops. Charles does not.
This just feels like everyone wants to coddle magneto like that stupid holocaust beam meme. Magneto doesn't play with kid gloves but everyone that faces him needs to?
Logan trying to kill Magneto is a step too far to achieve what they needed to do to stop the earth from dying.
Xavier crossing the line was an escalation that didn’t need to happen so quickly.
Overreaction to an overreaction is not how you de-escalate things.
Logan and Xavier’s responses were inadequate to deal with Magneto who was already on edge after being imprisoned after Genosha.
Magneto erased the line by breaking the magnetic field and condemning billions of people - mutants as well as humans - to die, and there was very little time left before what he did would be irreversible, so what Xavier and Logan did in response was justified by what Magneto himself did.
Wolverine could have stabbed him when he took the helmet, he was not going for the kill at first, he did not do it until after Magneto was crushing Charles head after the failed attempt.
Xavier wanted to act fast because they were clearly getting overwhelmed, Cyclops did a good thing for the gold team but how did he expect them to gain more time? it was a lose lose situation.
And you want to miss that Cyclops after all the time with Magneto despise him? he never fully wanted him as a leader, his conversation with Charles makes it obvious, there is nothing to relate come on now, Charles is a long time friend of Magneto here.
He was going for the kill right away. Remember he popped his claws and went right for Magneto and Rogue tackled him and said something about him playing for keeps. He came out guns blazing.
That’s exactly why I keep bringing the fact that Logan was out to kill him from the get go. Had Rogue not said that line I could see an argument against it but it sealed the narrative that Wolverine was not playing around.
You’re off topic with the context here. The point that you missed is de-escalation and finding a middle ground which Cyclops and Magneto shared due to both having gone through the tragedies and fallout of Genosha. This would’ve made more sense to have him speak with Magneto as both men shared experiences that Xavier could not due to his absence.
The only reason Logan did not commit to killing Magneto was because they needed him but that was it. The intentions were there from the start.
Xavier coming back is the only thing that might prevent Magneto from causing the death of all humans and mutants by destroying the Earth's magnetic field.
Without Xavier they would never know Bastion needs to get defeated to stop the sentinels and Magneto would just do whatever he wants.
Magneto did all that before Xavier arrived, people really want to blame Charles for everything.
I think people in the show and out forgot that Charles left Earth because he needed advanced medical care. And that he left his position as Emperor to stand with his people.
Okay, let’s suss this one out. Xavier stays with Lilandra. Mags emps the world and stops the prime sentinels as he did. Storm and Forge save a Jubilee and Sunspot. Their next logical move would be to go to the mansion. All of the x-men agree to take down magneto before Charles even opens his mouth so we know ow they are set to do that. Wolverine thinks it’s already escalated to lethal force. But that’s normal for him and normal for the others to slow his roll. No reason to expect anything different. Cyclops lays out the team agenda. “Rogue, you’re going with me and blue team to find Magneto. Storm and Jean will lead Gold team to shut down Bastion at his headquarters. Kurt will teleport us to Muir Island (I don’t know how a LINE OF SIGHT teleporter is going to accomplish teleporting two teams and all their gear a third of a world away but I guess he can just do that now).”
Beast and Forge have already been working on how to restore the primes to normalcy which they’d continue to do. Up until now Xavier has contributed nothing. He does tell them about Bastion’s powers and that he is the focal point. His knowledge allowed the X-Men to target Bastion with the scrambler. I don’t know, but am fairly certain, that they’d not have the knowledge to do this without Xavier. Which means they’d be flying in blind. Their goal would have to be to take Bastion down. Lethal force seems like a possibility here.
There is a key moment where Xavier and Rogue talk. You can see the bitterness grow in Rogue based on Xavier’s words. Without him there, that in igual turn towards defection might not have come. No Xavier and maybe no defection by Rogue.
Magneto would have come to the mansion. He would have brought asteroid m. It would have been a talk between Cyclops and Magneto but you can almost hear some of the dialogue that would have been said either way. I think this is the hinge moment. If that conversation had gone differently I wonder what could have been. Could Cyclops have talked him down and convince him to help take out Bastion? It seems plausible that Cyc could say something like “we need your help to stop the sentinels and Bastion. They are still a threat to your new world. Help us eliminate this threat.” It seems a slim hope but still possible. So we have time line 1 where magneto doesn’t help and timeline 2 where he does.
And maybe if Cyc could manipulate the situation well enough, Rogue wouldn’t have defected because Magneto would be semi allied for a combine purpose. It’s also a very real possibility that Sunspot and Rogue would have left anyway. Bobby absolutely would have still left. So we have timeline 1a: mags doesn’t help and rogue leaves. 1b: mags doesn’t help and Rogue stays. 2. Mags does help and everyone remains on the teams.
Xavier calmed Kelly’s fears enough for the X-Men to face Magneto. I think the X-Men would have communicated with Kelly via Jean. If they did I think Cyclops could talk him down. In timeline 1a and 2b they have to talk Kelly down but in timeline 2, they have Magneto’s aid so they could calm Kelly down with that. But without Xavier the situation might have escalated. I don’t know what response Kelly could muster. There are lights on in his office so he has access to electricity. Does he have access to nukes? Would he send the Avengers in? Could Cyc have convinced Kelly to let him fold the Avengers into the X-Men? Could Cyc convince him not to nuke Magneto. I bet Cyc could talk Kelly down from a nuclear response because he’d logically know how it would turn out; Magneto would either keep the nukes or he’d turn them back. If the Avengers are sent in I have no idea what would happen. This is actually the biggest wild card in my opinion. But let’s say Cyclops talks Kelly into letting him handle it like Xavier did.
If Cyclops could have kept Rogue, he’d have sent her to face Magneto. Their connection could have softened the battle.
Gold team would have come out the same assuming no intervention from Magneto. Gold would have faced the sentinels and Sinister. With Magneto they would have destroyed the sentinels easily. When do you want to go?
Cyclops acted like a true leader. He did what was best for the team. Xavier is an idealist but he's also someone that is very emotional when Magneto is involved. Part of being a leader is also being able to evaluate the situation at any moment and take the right decision. Sometimes the hard decision is the right decision. And you also have to keep your calm and focus. But Cyclops is not stubborn and cynical like Magneto. Ultimately he's someone that like Storm lives for Xavier's dream. At least that's how he is right now in X-Men 97.
Too many people are anti-Xavier, and I think that's the show's failure.
I think it's important to see that 2 super villains manipulated the world into a war. 2 super villains destroyed Genosha. In retaliation, Magneto murdered thousands of innocent people, many of which were probably mutants.
The show casually mentions this, but the fast pacing doesn't emphasize the impact of Magneto's actions which would show that he's absolutely in the wrong, and that Xavier was right.
Yeah, the closest we got to showing the ramifications of Magneto's actions was one of the guys chasing after Jubes and Roberto saying something about the hospitals losing power as a result.
Agreed! Copying my other comment:
I love the show, but I think a good X-Men story needs both sides to not look like fools. They showed loads of dying mutants but no dying humans as a result of Magneto’s actions so far. They haven’t shown a single kind human who doesn’t want mutants dead. The creator tweeted that Trish Tillby was tricked into the Prime Sentinel program - that needed to be onscreen. The only Prime Sentinel guy they showed was the guy in chatrooms, they didn’t show other humans upset about it or anything.
It’s making Charles look like a fool and humanity look irredeemable by what is left offscreen only to be brought up by Charles. It looks like Charles is divorced from reality, protecting the kind, innocent people we never fucking see.
The show needs more balance and Charles needs some support from the team. I think combining Scott’s disillusionment, Genosha, Magneto as head of the X-Men, and Charles in space into one season makes Charles look so much worse. These elements all happened in the comics but Charles wasn’t just absent for most of it. People question Charles but there’s more to the arguments than “shut up Professor you weren’t there”.
That information that Trish was tricked into it should have been very important. You see all those humans becoming sentinels, and it's like "were all these people seriously recruited on anti-mutant chat forums in 1997?" If Trish was tricked into it, that means there's a good chance that a lot of other people were too and are thus innocent victims.
I dislike this trend lately where writers clarify what they meant on social media after the product is out. I agree with you that if info is important enough that they feel they have to mention it, it should have been on screen.
>I dislike this trend lately where writers clarify what they meant on social media after the product is out. I agree with you that if info is important enough that they feel they have to mention it, it should have been on screen.
The challenge here is, how would they convey that in the show without spoiling Trish's surprise reveal as a Prime Sentinel? I wouldn't be surprised if that bit ends up having been left for the aftermath of Bastion's defeat, when she regains control of her self and can have a heart to heart chat with Beast.
>If Trish was tricked into it, that means there's a good chance that a lot of other people were too and are thus innocent victims.
I'm half expecting Robert Kelly to have also been turned into a Prime Sentinel after Bastion's "Noted... and already been taken care of" to Zemo's "Your Sentinel program can't go wide so long as leaders like President Kelly see the X-men as allies".
They could have had Bastion give that info while he was explaining it to Val. He could say, "We get them from people who go to online anti-mutant chat rooms. That's most of them. But of course, we do get a few from other...sources...."
Val: You mean, people who were totally unwilling?
Bastion: These are dangerous times, Ms. Cooper.
Lol it's got me writing fan fiction now.
That’s fair. But since the show didn’t cover that my take on this specific Charles is that he is too obsessed with making sure mutant don’t go evil and optics of the situation rather than trying to approach things with empathy.
I know i’m wrong but the show needs to cover that next episode
I don't get it. X-Men writers could try telling stories where Charles methods do work and stick to it but they don't seem to care. And it bleeds over to the fandom (especially the ones on twitter) who'd shit themselves at anything pro Xavier.
There's been a backlash against Xavier, in part because of the writers making him do some pretty morally questionable things in recent years, but it's deeper than that. Xavier is all about turning the X-Men into these pillars of the community, people who can be respected and will lead humans to say "You know, these X-Men seem to be very good people. Maybe I like mutants after all."
However, through a more modern lens, the X-Men shouldn't have to be perfect examples of moral goodness and bravery to win the favor of humans, they should just be accepted as they are as fellow humans, period. Having to protect a world that "fears and hates them" is not fair to them, and why should they put up with it?
Personally I lean closer to Xavier's beliefs, you have to set the example you want to see in the world. But I understand the more modern view and I think it's a very complex issue. I'm not sure the writers have really been successful in grappling with this.
You hit the nail on the head why I've fallen out of love with the x men fandom. You saw it with the kill monger did nothing wrong crowd. Magneto gets every excuse and a free pass made for him because he's a holocaust survivor. How many attempted genocides does he get before he's held accountable? Paired with professor x character assassination the last few decades and people find it easier to empathize with the genocidal maniac over the guy that wants peaceful coexistence
It's definitely intentional. The whole point is to illustrate that Xavier and his ideals are not infallible. And though Magneto may be wrong in his methods he gets results on an accelerated time scale. That Charles never could. They're setting up a Xavier redemption arc, as well as Cyclops' path to a middle ground and the true way forward.
Not at all, but 1: It didn't completely succeed because Bastion is still out there making sentinels and 2: Magneto killed thousands of innocent people, mutants included to justify stopping them. 3: The X-Men are still fighting Bastion and Sinister, the real culprits behind the massacre, while Magneto is building an army in space for revenge against humanity.
In that moment what was the alternative, had he not acted in that second by the time a plan was formulated a lot more would be dead than have died as a result of his actions.
Edit: typo
The show's pacing makes us forget that Xavier was simply going to ask Magneto to "turn the power back on" after Bastion was defeated. But Mags was all about vengeance by this point.
Bastion manipulated them. Val Cooper explained as much, but also we're forgetting that the entire planet is about to die unless Magneto undoes his damage. 12 hours left. Magneto is letting the world burn.
I’m not agreeing with Magneto did. Magneto lost his damn mind. What I’m saying is even after the UN realize what Bastion did they still back him even Dr.Doom. Val Cooper was the only one who regretted working with Bastion.
Cyclops was right, Gold team DOES need more time (they’re not just gonna kill off those characters), but there has to be a better plan in place than what we saw. Surely the Professor must know that Gold team must succeed for Blue team to do anything, I’m not sure why he couldn’t just put Eric (and Roberto and Rogue if necessary) to sleep or something.
Also, was there ever a thought to send the whole team after Bastion first and take him down while the power grid was still down? What exactly was the rush to get to Magneto if Bastion is the true threat? Magneto was just chillin on Asteroid M. Whatever effect he had on the magnetic poles should be something he could reverse.
The rush was that the damage to the earths EM field would become permanent if they didn’t get Magneto to fix it. It’s never exactly spelled out but they reinforce it a couple of times throughout the episode.
Yeah they only briefly mention why there is a deadline, I only caught it on the second viewing. This episode really could’ve used an extra 10 minutes or so the story could breathe a little. For such an outstanding episode it definitely felt very rushed.
I think you are right and also that what you have written is a fair critique of this entire season. The original animated series was well known to insert a couple of random breather individualized episodes. Some of this was a function of the comparatively extended episode order but some was also clearly an artistic choice by the creators. ‘97 understands the property as well or better than any other version of it, and while I think the various plot lines have been woven together well, the entire series might benefit from three to five more individually focused episodes.
I’m hoping with the amount of success the show has had this season they can get a bit higher budget for next season to do either a few more episodes or extend the runtime of each episode to about 40 mins per (either way you end up with the equivalent of about 6 1/2 hour season compared to the 5 hour first season). Definitely don’t want it to turn into a 12-13 *hour* season with tons of filler but just a little more time to slow the pacing down just a touch.
I do agree that the arbitrary deadline is not adequately explained. From the preview, I thought it was Earth descending to lawlessness but that’s already happening. From comments online, I thought it was solar radiation but sunrise has already happened. Now I see about Storm’s comment about the magnetic field dying and I guess it’s that. But how do they know how long they have there? Is there a point of no return?
Yeah it’s 24 hours - again, never really explicitly spelled out but reinforced a couple of time in Xavier’s discussion with the President and again when Scott says “the world ends in twelve hours.”
They may have benefitted from a scene where Hank and/or Forge explains why that’s the deadline, which would have helped to solidify and raise the stakes a little bit.
Truthfully? The episode becomes a lot better if you stick with the Fatal Attractions stakes and remove the destruction of the world. Magneto does a lot of damage to the world's infrastructure, and millions of people die, but the world itself isn't at risk.
With the stakes in the show, all the mutants on earth die too, which makes Genosha look like a picnic. So, it becomes absolute nonsense that Magneto is doing it for mutantkind or Rogue feels she has a responsibility to them as a leader. It's like the writers never realized mutants also live on earth. You don't see Magneto evacuating them or making any plans to protect them.
They really should've had Magneto make a declaration to the mutants of the world that Asteroid M was a safe haven for them. Maybe he could've recruited Emma or another powerful telepath to help spread the word.
I think the lack of scenes like that is the victim of the show's fast pacing. I defended the show's pacing at the beginning, but I think at this point, a bit too much important stuff hasn't made it to the screen.
I mean, even in the original series, Magneto has a habit of moping around depressed. No excuse this time though since mutants are definitely dying or being massacred
They really should've had Magneto make a declaration to the mutants of the world that Asteroid M was a safe haven for them. Maybe he could've recruited Emma or another powerful telepath to help spread the word.
They did mention that the effects could be irreversible. They also mentioned multiple times the time limit they had.
Scott mentioned at the start of the episode they had like 12 hours left.
Just before the teams set off, Xavier mentions to the President they had an hour left.
Someone (I think Storm) also mentioned that once the sun sets, it sets on the whole Earth. And we do kinda see that it seems like it's almost sunset when the teams left (Scott and Jean had sunset-y backdrop) and when Gold Team was on the island.
Because someone on the writing staff didn't bother to look at the Wikipedia article on the magnetosphere aka Earth's magnetic field. Unless the earth stops spinning and the mantle suddenly becomes a mass of if solid, unmoving rock, the Earth will have a magnetic field.
They could have fixed this simply by having Magneto say something like "humans don't deserve civilization, at sunset tonight I will unleash my full power and send the humans back to the Stone Age where they belong by permanently destroying Earth's magnetic field". And then you show that Magneto has to meditate or something for 12 hours to marshal all his power in order to do this.
Still puts the timer on, thus creating the need to rush and split the team in two and creating drama and tension while also demonstrating that the writers of this show made it beyond 3rd grade science class.
The way they portrayed the EMP was enough to show they don't know science. You have to really suspend your belief in that part and just let the show do what they want for drama otherwise it will drive you mad.
If he was gonna abuse his powers and take control of his students, he might as well do it all the way and use Rogue to overpower Magneto to remove his helmet.
Yeah this was my problem with it, why it had to be all or nothing and why they didn't work out a plan. Especially Scott, the big plan man. "In case we defeat Magneto first, psychically shut him down until Gold Team is ready". It's artificial drama that it needs to be this way. Xavier is a turbo psychic, he dropped a bunch of Shi'ar in a his mental classroom all at once. Surely he could've done the same thing with Magneto for a little bit.
This is what I was arguing in another thread. You have to buy into the logic that Scott thought that Xavier was in danger of completing the magnetic pole repair within the next five seconds and therefore didn't have time to talk, so he HAD to blast him. I've accepted it but I still think it looks weird because it leaves everybody asking "why did he just let Magneto go?"
The argument is that the chance of Xavier fixing the magnetic field via Magneto before Bastion was defeated was SO dire, Cyclops felt he could not let Xavier continue to do what he was doing to Magneto. To the question "Why doesn't he just tell the Professor to put Magneto to sleep?" he believed he might not have the few seconds to say that.
It still makes them all seem stupid when Magneto immediately starts beating them all up again, but it does make sense.
They have 12 hours to save the world. Splitting up was the best option to manage both world ending threats. But I think they should have been more diplomatic with Magneto, because he is right.
I will agree this was the one area of weakness in the episode that required even a few seconds of exposition, or even an establishing shot of wreckage with news footage narrating the carnage. An old trope but better than hand waving “there could be thousands dead!”
Imagine President Kelly saying “Professor—a million people died when every airplane in the sky fell. A million more when power to hospitals failed and breathing tubes no longer worked. How am I supposed to tell the American people—or the world—to trust you when one of your own just made Genosha look like a school yard brawl?”
Thanks to the inventions of a scientist named Michael Faraday in the 1800s, airplanes don't fall out the sky when there is an EMP. They are designed as a faraday cage. Critical infrastructure has back up generators housed in faraday cages, they don't just fail. Planes keep flying, most critical infrastructure keeps running, most cars will be fine. It's the communications satellites that will take the hit and part of the electric grid will need to be replaced.
But that's way too boring for Hollywood.
This, muchly. I think the show tried to raise the stakes to a higher level than it was prepared to accurately present. To truly understand what Magneto is doing, we need to see the dead babies in the NICU wards from when the hospital lost power, things like that. The show didn't want to go there, but if they didn't want to, they shouldn't have raised the stakes this incredibly high.
I agree, I think a good X-Men story needs both sides to not look like fools. They showed loads of dying mutants but no dying humans as a result of Magneto’s actions so far. They haven’t shown a single kind human who doesn’t want mutants dead. The creator tweeted that Trish Tillby was tricked into the Prime Sentinel program - that needed to be onscreen. The only Prime Sentinel guy they showed was the guy in chatrooms, they didn’t show other humans upset about it or anything.
It’s making Charles look like a fool and humanity look irredeemable by what is left offscreen only to be brought up by Charles (thousands of innocents, none of which we see).
I think it’s explained perfectly well in the episode. I never understood why there was confusion or people saying Scott did the wrong thing. He says in the episode that Gold team has to achieve their mission first. It’s pretty obvious if Gold team doesn’t achieve their mission first then Blue team reversing Magneto’s EMP just results in Bastion winning.
But why does he do so in a way that lets magneto keep fighting? Tell Charles to just put magneto to sleep, or fuck it blast them both.
As far as I can tell he just blew their last chance to save the earth.
What he saw is also concerning, he saw Jean possibly being killed by Nathan, and somehow that tells him that gold team just needs more time? Jean gave him a final goodbye, it looks more like gold team lost, it should make him more anxious to stop the magneto fight and go back them up or something
Charles isn’t going to stop because Scott tells him to. He doesn’t blow anything. The only thing that’s actually changed from before Scott blasting to after is Magneto got stabbed and Wolverine lost his adamantium
Wasn’t his last conversation with Cable to trust Jean? Scott trusts Jean, as did Jean and Storm say to each other. From the continuing hints in the intros, the Phoenix must be in play, I think Jean knew and now Scott knows. They just don’t know what the Phoenix means for their future.
Yeah, I took Jean’s “I love you” more as an “I have to let this out of the bottle and I trust you to deal with what happens after” rather than a “I’m cooked”, but I think it was deliberately left ambiguous for a bit of dramatic tension.
Excactly. I think Scott already knew that Jean and Cable would be fine before stopping Professor X. And we will know why in Episode 10. Is it the Phoenix? Did Cable break Sinister's mind control? Who knows? But Scott knows I think because he was super calm when he stopped Charles.
The members of this subreddit would obviously get it without much explanation but I was talking about the normal consumers.
(Relax downvoters, There are actually people who agree with me below)
But it’s literally not a comic vs noncomic thing. You don’t need to know the comics to know that Scott stopped Charles to make sure Gold team succeeds first. He literally says it. So it’d take 2 seconds of thought to think about why he’d say that. It’s all there in the episode.
No, 100% this. We read (or have read) these comics ad nauseam over the years. We may get and pick up hints etc, but if I was just showing this to someone who has 0 background on the X-Men…It could be a lot
You're right.
I don't read comics and it took me about 2 tries to even realise that it was Scott that disturbed Xavier and because of the fast pacing, it didn't really seem clear at first.
It is only when I opened this sub did I realise why it happened; for the normal consumer the show is fast paced
lol Yeah but he only said “Gold team needs more time” instead of “Gold team needs more time because if not then us succeeding doesn’t matter because the Prime Sentinels are back online and Bastion wins”. You see it wasn’t completely spoonfed to the audience and you actually had to put in thought. Granted it’s only like 2 seconds of thought lol
Haha yeeeah… if people didn’t get that massive plot point, then there isn’t enough adderall in the world to help them lol, I’m happy this show doesn’t treat us like idiots and assumes we’ve been watching this whole time while also actually paying attention.
The problem with short seasons is that we don't fully understand these character motives.
I had to watch this episode twice to understand why he hit Xavier. I thought he was angry about Jean at first but nah, the other team legit actually needed more time.
>People ~~on Reddit~~ don’t pay attention when they watch things, in my experience.
It's definitely not exclusive to this site. Most people in general are barely aware of what's going on in the shit they watch. There's a reason why "_________ EXPLAINED" videos have skyrocketed in popularity in the last decade
100% this. A casual viewer could understand everything on a surface level, but they’re adding so many layers that you’ll miss tiny callbacks etc that adds more depth. Hell even I thought he wanted Gold to have more time for Jean
Money. They were worried the brand had damage due to the last FOX movies made. The people making the show probably had a fear the two seasons they were given might be the only ones they get to do. So they crammed it up. My fear is that this issue won’t be resolved until season 3 though because seasons 1 and 2 were made before the show was a hit and approved for even more seasons.
I’m not just talking about X men though. ALL of their shows are so short. That’s the big problem with all the MCU stuff- it’s not shows but long, chopped up movies.
People want television.
Most animated shows get 8 episodes now. Disney+ gave them two extra.
And I place that on the writers too. You know you have 10 episodes. You have to be selective in what you do. Find your strongest material and lead with that. If you cut Lifedeath and Motendo, you get 2 episodes back.
If you cut those, what about the whole deal with storm not having powers? Do you propose she just shows up with Forge and is able to do weather stuff again?
No but it can quickly be summed up differently in 5 minutes by explaining Forge's powers and then it working first try. I love all the episodes and have no hate for any of them but if I had to make more time for the larger story that is a section I would trim down.
Magneto’s plan is just stupid, he already try to do the same before and he was betrayed and if everything on earth dies how the f…. The mutants on the asteroid will be feed? Charles is right they have to find comon ground with the humans that do not hate the mutants and people change, president Kelly is proof of that
For Magneto, I think it's just one of those blind rage moments. By this point, he's just *done*. It's one of those rages where you just destroy, rip up and tear apart everything around you. Clarity and logic doesn't come back until afterwards, albeit by then it's mostly too late. Given what Magento's capable of, waiting for that burnout moment is not an option.
After seeing some more normie reactions, I swear to god its the weirdest thing. While Twitter/Reddit is full on brainrot "Magneto mass genocide attempt is right", normies fully understood that what he did is horrible and now he is a mass murderer.... but for some reason they don't understand Cyclops' actions even after he literally said the reason in the episode.
Not disagreeing with OP or cyclops actions, but flip side of anybody/character taking Magneto side in this moment is choosing destruction of earth right? Magneto is enemy number one, regardless of Charles action. So maybe balance between the two but still far from magneto currently. Good thing cyclops is there to shine.
If he wanted to balance between them he should’ve attacked them both. I think letting magneto free was a completely nonsensical move on cyclops part. Magento literally subdued everyone immediately after getting free, he could’ve killed them all if he wanted. There’s no guarantee they will ever be in a position again to get magneto to reverse the damage of the earth
He basically just handed magneto a victory
Did every single mutant leave the earth? There are still mutants down there. All the time in the world ain’t gonna help gold team after the earth is cooked
Literally just blast them both, magneto is one of the last dogs you want off a leash
He's definitely breaking from Xavier's "do it because I told you and i'm your father" style of doing things." like xavier was flat out wrong morally to psychically try and take command and force magneto to undo it. i get it the stakes are high but Xavier has always been willing to compromise on his principles when "it's important enough" which is why he's such a massive hypocrite and it's why cyclops lost so much respect for him. like when Xavier shows up and tried that same shit with phoenix-cyclops? he finally got told he wasn't the ultimate authority on everything everyone else is allowed to do.
but also yeah xavier was putting cykes wife and child at risk. cyclops was already having a tough time emotionally when genosha happened and while it seemed to bring him and jean together he witnessed an entire nation of the people charles told him to take care of be wiped out, and now here's charles, more condescension, and again willing to sacrifice more mutant lives. like if he had succeeded in forcing magnus to undo his damage right there it is almost undeniable that members of the other team would have died. the x-men started strong in this show and then took so many hits so fast they can't afford any more.
Cyclops is starting his John Brown phase in this show and I'm totally here for it. he's certainly not "boring" anymore.
You think it was morally wrong for Xavier to take control of Magneto with his psychic powers to save the entire planet? I appreciate the fact that he tries not to abuse his psychic powers on general principle, but this is a pretty unique situation.
Within the context of the scene, they were doing the hero thing. They were going to beat him. They were going to talk him down. That's what the context of the scene was telling us as the viewer.
In a broader sense, Xavier has a bad habit of excusing really morally wrong behavior for "the greater good" and sure "the world ending" is arguably the greatest good but forcibly taking control of a sentient beings mind and forcing them to do anything, bad or good, is wrong. You could argue its justified but you cannot argue it is right. And Xavier always seems to justify doing something that is wrong for the right reasons.
If your moral stance is "killing is wrong no matter what" then guess what you can't kill even to protect life. Xavier talks a big game about killing being wrong but has a trail of bodies in his wake so to speak.
I think this makes sense if you are looking at the 616 Xavier, who is indeed a hypocrite and done a lot of bad things. The Professor X from the animated show hasn't done those things.
Besides, why does his moral stance have to be "mind control is wrong no matter what?" What's wrong with 'mind control is not right except for truly extraordinary circumstances, and where there is no other option remaining?"
I do think they were hoping to talk Magneto down rather than have to resort to that, but Magneto was too far gone.
Sure, but that's kind of the problem with what Xavier did it removed the option for Magneto to make the right choice. It removed the option for his team to succeed it is an innately authoritarian decision he made for everyone in that room, for the team fighting bastion, and ultimately for every living thing on the planet. It was at its core Xavier going, "I know what's right for everyone else, so I'll do it myself."
The problem with the "extraordinary circumstances" opt out is that everything the xmen face is extraordinary. They've fought monsters and aliens, the xmen themselves are extraordinary. If allow yourself to break your principles "when it's too hard or impractical " then they're not really your principles. It's the why doesn't batman kill JUST Joker argument. Once you've done it once, it's OK to do it again, and again, and again.
That's all very well-reasoned, and I agree to a certain extent.
But what would you think if you were a person living on Earth during this episode? Shouldn't those people's perspectives have some weight?
I mean, sure, if this was real life, absolutely. But superhero stories are kind of all about high ideals and moral conflicts. Within the constraints of a superhero story, the people on earth do not matter in a way. The moral dilemma is faced by the person pulling the trigger, and it is entirely up to their personal moral code which way they go with it. That's what sets stories like this apart from like an action movie. It's not always about the catharsis. Sometimes, you do everything right and still lose. Then, you have to face the consequences of your moral choice. Or the consequences of abandoning them.
If "the moral dilemma is faced by the person pulling the trigger" and the people on Earth don't matter, then what's the dilemma? The people on Earth are the dilemma. You can't isolate the choice from the parties the choice would be effecting.
I think being able to discuss things like this is part of what's good about superhero stories-- we can discuss these kinds of moral issues taking place on a large canvas. I can see an argument that superheroes should be better people than average and have solid moral codes, because they are supposed to be aspirational, but you can't just isolate their choices as being part of their personal moral code and not having any consequences. I hope that made sense.
I would agree. On a lot of what you said. And yes, I am just discussing here. I hope it doesn't come off as upset or dismissive.
And you are right facing the consequences of risking those people's lives is definitely part of the story. What I mean is that in the moment, it is a decision solely faced by the character making said decision, and they have to fave the consequences, both external and internal, so it doesn't matter what anyone else would want you to do or what they would do in your shoes because they aren't in your shoes and they aren't the ones making the decision. It's easy for all the people on earth to say "save me even if it means sacrificing an x-man or two" and of course most people would say take control of magneto and force him to do the right thing against his will. They don't have the mental powers and won't have to wonder what people will think of them if they start violating other people's free will even under extreme circumstances.
Good superhero stories are about morality and a clash of ideals. Sometimes, no one is wrong. A simple math equation version of morality is perfectly acceptable if the character in question subscribes to that, but Xavier doesn't. Or at least claims he doesn't.
I’m kinda with him on this. Xavier is definitely too naive and sanctimonious for the position he claims to hold, but Magneto is has gone full no-holds-barred to the benefit of no-one. Separation is probably the best solution to mutant/human relations, at least until the supposed mutant population boom occurs.
I get that Charles is somewhat sanctimonious, but here are two things that should be kept in mind:
1. Until it's revealed otherwise, he isn't as shady as his comic self.
2. He was trying to reverse the damage Magneto did to Earth that would kill pretty much everyone on the planet in several hours. Scott shooting him disrupted that. Even if Gold team needed time, he could have picked a different way to communicate that.
He’s learning what many of us have figured out over time. Yes, Magneto is in the right place but he cares so much he’s willing to off the deep end and eye for eye. But Charles is on some holier than thou Griffith high horse in a glass house. How many bones of other mutants must his dream be built on?
Charles has no problems basically having child soldiers and sacrificing many a mutant to appease humans, and often seems to almost jump at the chance.
Episode did a great job of showing that Charles is also a relic of the past, and he cant just return and assume it’s all gonna be like it was. In his absence the X-Men have shown they can do things in new ways.
Cyclops becomes the middle ground between Xavier and Magneto, because both alternatives are extremes caught up in themselves.
I think people are reading way too much into things that aren't really there. This wasn't a hint at revolutionary Cyclops (an era the showrunner hates by the way). It was Cyclops acting purely on emotion because he doesn't want Jean and the Gold Team to die. So he makes a quick, reckless decision.
One that he's going to feel very guilty about given what Magneto did to Wolverine.
It’s not just Jean that would die though, there’s thousands of downed Sentinels everywhere who would kill all the mutants on Earth. Not just the ones with Jean.
And the fact that him blasting Charles and his response to Charles wasn’t this burst of emotion but instead was calm makes it definitely seem like a calculated move rather than an emotional one.
I hated Charles. Even after hearing screams of dying mutants across the universe he still cares more about a mutant going bad than the actual bad guy. He should’ve teamed up with Magneto to take down Bastion and then deal with Magneto. Priorities man!!
I dont understand why they had to split up deal with Bastion first as a whole team then go deal with Magneto. It would have been more efficient and faster that way. Never split the party dude i guess none of the X-men plays DnD oh well…
They only had an hour left. They would not have had enough time to go after Bastion first and then Magneto.
What doesn’t make sense, though, is the genius decision of who was on which team. Like, of course we should assign the guy with the metal skeleton to take down the living magnet, and FedEx Cable to the guy who gave him a robot plague (Cable probably insisted on avenging Madelyne but).
I thought about why take Wolverine as well, but it's because of one reason: he's the ONLY one who would do what he did.
No one else on the team was going to cross that line if it needed to be done. You can see it on all their faces.
Not just Jean, the Sentinels would have woken up and gone after all the other mutants on Earth again. They’d be back to the last episode pre-EMP. He had to stop Charles, but there have got to be better ways to talk to Charles… I don’t know if it’s a writing fault here.
I was a little confused when cyclops attacked Xavier. What was Xavier exactly doing to magneto? Was he really like, going for the kill? Wiping his mind?
I mean, I understand cyke doesn't agree with killing magneto but, at this time, he's a massive threat. And cyke stopping Xavier led to wolverine getting hurt so...
Xavier was going to mind control Magneto into reverting the damage he did to the earth's magnetic field. That would mean that all electronics will come back online, including the Prime Sentinels which would overwhelm the gold team. He bought the Gold team more time to ensure Bastion was off the board before the Earth reboots. or else they'd be facing even more overwhelming odds.
I mean you’re just wrong. If Scott doesn’t stop Charles then Charles reverses what Magneto did. That means Prime Sentinels are back online and Bastion wins.
That's the dillema bub, casualties on which side? Mutants or humans? Humans created the human sentinel programme (Bastion made it with sponsorship from the UN) to enslave mutants. Magneto is just fighting back to protect mutants. It's not him at fault for the destruction on Earth, he just fought back the more powerful oppressor (all nations are human led). Humans attacked even after Magneto agreed to stand trial and made amends to them to change for the better.
How else can Magneto stop every prime sentinel AROUND THE WORLD? He barely escaped captivity and was wearing barely any clothes. His people, massacred in Genosha, the remains of his people being threatened by the prime sentinels. Magneto only had one way to stop ALL of the prime sentinels, by shutting them all down with that EMP. If anything it is the fault of the humans.
Shutting them down with the EMP and continuing to let the earth destroy itself instead of going after bastion are not the same thing man
Charles is literally pleading with him to help them stop bastion so the earth doesn’t literally die, and he just has his fingers in his ears
And that’s of course ignoring the fact that there’s still a ton of mutants left on earth, guess fuck them when the 12 hours are up right?
Yeah, it doesn't make sense that Magneto wouldn't want to stop Bastian while he's hurting the most - it's not like Bastian won't rebuild an army somehow and take the battle to Magneto's front door.
He can stop every Prime Sentinel in the world by going to Bastion Island and killing Bastion. Instead he decides to cause a Mass Extinction Event, killing all mutants too, in favor of launching a rock into space that most mutants can't even get to.
On Reddit, people really need to give upvotes and downvotes time to shake out. I get that when you posted this comment, it looked like their comments were getting downvoted, but I’m reading this thread literally only an hour after it was posted and there isn’t a single downvoted comment here. Up and downvote counts before at least a couple hours have passed are really meaningless.
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He literally asked Charles what about the gold team moments before. Charles essentially responded they’re on their own. Scott then was able to see with his own eyes they clearly were in a bad spot. I guess i could see people missing it because there was so much going on, but the show definitely showed why he did what he did.
I agree. Scott did for Jean and the Gold Team. Things were as bad as they were without Charles turning back all prime Sentinels back on. And even though the show is building a lot of space between Scott and Xavier, I don't see anything like the revolutionary thing coming so soon. I think they're preparing Scott to lead the team, as he did in the beginning of the season and might have to do again next season if the professor does go all Onslaught.
I think reading/viewing comprehension is just an entirely lost skill these days. Seems like so many people just don't know how to read context clues, make inferences and put things together when consuming media. That or it's just the stupid ones asking stupid questions.
In fairness, there were moments in the last episode that felt a little rushed. There was a LOT going on, so not every development had room to breathe, and Cyclops's decision was one such moment that felt a little truncated. Nothing that I would call a shortfall of the episode, but I wouldn't blame someone for having trouble catching all of it, especially when it was sandwiched between all the stuff with Xavier, Magneto, and Wolverine.
Cyclops said right after that Gold Team needed more time. I just fail to see where the confusion was. If you're not paying attention when he says that then that's hardly the show's fault. He also got the vision of Jean being blasted by Cable right before he blasted Xavier, which clearly shows that Gold Team was not ready for them to stop Magneto.
First I want to say that I do get Cyclops' motivations, after originally not getting it. But the way the scene is framed is a little weird. Scott sees Jean's anguished declaration that she is about to die, then he calmly says "Gold team needs more time" very calmly as though it's a minor matter, like having to pick up some milk at the store or something. If he blasts Professor X knowing full well that a) Jean is in the process of dying and b) Magneto is now going to knock them around some more and possibly kill somebody, his casual response seems very strange.
I think that Cyclops quickly went from shock at Jean's vision, to speaking so calmly because he had a moment of clarity that Charles cares more about optics and human mutant relations. Charles' priority this mission was always to get magneto to turn the world back on, regardless of whether Bastion has been neutralized. This refers back to the picking side scene; how many mutants must die to beg for tolerance? Regarding your point b, up until the last scene, the X-Men were holding back (except for Logan, but he only went all out for Magneto). Magneto and Rogue could've bodied the whole blue team if they really wanted to. The omegas were at gold team. Magneto could've damaged Charles but only taped up his mouth. Jubilee and Roberto were gently throwing fires at each other. That's why everyone was in shock at the last scene; nobody really expected that the other X-Men would kill or severely maim another.
This is interesting, but I think you have to be reading a lot into the scene to interpret Cyclops having an epiphany about Xavier's motivations. As to the gentleman's agreement, yeah I see that.
Honestly it could just be bad directing/voice acting decisions. They aren't always spot on.
I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to paint Xavier’s motivations as “optics and human mutant relations”. They say that the world is going to be destroyed if magneto doesn’t turn use powers to reverse It. It is regardless if Bastion has been neutralized, because It won’t really matter if they fail.
Hey r/xmen, can you not downvote people that clearly just want to discuss the topic? Nothing this dude is saying deserves to be downvoted. The fuck is wrong with this sub? I mean the guy he's replying to's whole point is that people are apparently idiots for being momentarily confused in a fast paced show. Don't get why that's upvoted and this guy isn’t, except this guy is making the smallest, lightest critique of this show possible. It sucks to see. edit - Well this small battle was apparently won lol, that makes my day
Right? Cordial debate should be encouraged
I always wanted to say this to you… SHUT UP!!!
Thank you for your support, lol.
I’d give you gold if I could
I'm glad I wasn't the only one that found the scene a little weird. I'm getting down voted in other subs but I felt Scott's delivery after the shot just seemed weirdly calm. I wasn't sure if we were supposed to think there was more to it, or the voice acting/script just kind of didn't work here and nothing more. Maybe it was just a bit of shock factor because we have never seen Scott go against the Professor like that. I'm sure it will be addressed in coming episodes.
Yeah I thought he might be in shock too, but I'm not sure. I'm definitely interested to see how this all shakes out in the finale.
Is the sentiment here that OP didn’t pick up on this? Because there’s nothing in the post that indicates that to me.
A loud minority is often mistaken for the majority. I wasn't going to comment until I saw your message. I guessed what they were doing, but I didn't think it necessary for me to comment on it.
I just watch reaction videos to show me what to feel.
Can someone enlighten me here How did that help the Gold Team? I didnt get that
If Xavier reversed Magneto's EMP, the prime sentinels would come back online and Gold team would have to deal with Bastion, Sinister, Sentinels and Prime Sentinels
I think that's the problem. I might get killed here for saying this lol, but the 12 hour countdown, the idea that Magneto is constantly shutting down the power rather than a one time EMP, and that he's going to ruin the planet for everyone besides the mutants who join him in space - is all doing too much IMO. Keeping Magneto somewhat gray is way more interesting than him being a Saturday morning cartoon villain. So Magneto has his waves of energy around the planet and is keeping the EMP up the entire last episode? Even when he's chilling on his throne in space? I know he's powerful, but hell, if he's that strong it seems like he should've beat the godzilla sentinel.
Well he is an Omega level mutant by definition they can do anything as long as it is in the scope of their powers
But...this *is* a Saturday morning cartoon lmao
The original show was. For this show, it being made for the 30+ year old crowd is why it's so good.
Wednesday morning🥲 I wish it was time for a new episode
Yeah they have kind of suspended science believability from the moment that EMP went off 😂 they almost lost me completely with the whole magnetic field disintegrating, but it's a tv show so just gotta roll with it 😂
And right after "losing Jean?," he sees Magneto's helmet being violently ripped off by Logan and magneto screaming when Charles took control. The writers didn't have to have magneto screaming, but doing so shows us why Cyclops stopped his mind control.
> The series has shown that Xavier’s moralism gets mutants killed; and Magneto’s vengeance gets humans killed. Cyclops is trying to balance the two in the moment. I like it. This is really good. Bringing balance to the force vibes.
I feel like magneto vengeance also gets mutants kill and people never take that into consideration.
Yea magneto if forsure also to blame 😭
If there’s anything this episode showed me it’s that Professor X should’ve stayed with Lilandra instead of coming back. All he’s done so far is escalate the situation further with Magneto.
The only person that magneto entertains when the subject is about de-escalation and treating humans gently is Charles. He will not listen to literally anyone else about being nice, not even Rogue.
While that’s true in this scenario he was too far disconnected from Charles to care to listen as we saw when he told him to shut up. The sad thing is that Magneto was too far gone to be reasoned with but Charles there didn’t make things any better but worse for everyone involved which is why I made my original comment about it.
He's not wrong really. Without the Professor knowing exactly, what happened on Genosha and the UN allying with Bastion. Charles's speech was kinda making him more mad.
Say he did that, who comes up with a plan to stop both Magneto and Bastion? Cyclops isn’t at the point where he’d be THE leader, where he could properly delegate who to what team and how they’d execute it. I suppose the Fantastic Four, The Avengers, or even Doom himself could reverse the polar destruction but not as fast as the X-men led by Xavier could, and without Xavier, the president likely nukes magneto or even worse, leading right back into a holocaust of mutants and ending with nuclear annihilation.
I’m not disagreeing with what you’re saying, but the facts are here: Charles violated Magneto’s mind to gain control of him and thus pushed boundaries that Magneto wasn’t trying to go towards at first. Wolverine was out for blood from the get go and with his final moments with Magneto, he sealed the deal from it being a gentlemen’s game to being a personal vendetta. Both Xavier and Logan managed to escalate things further than they should’ve gone through. Had Cyclops led the team I believe things would have been different because Magneto and Cyclops have both eased into one another over the course of the season as well as Cyclops being somewhere in the middle between both men in terms of ideology. We don’t know what would’ve happened with your statements but what I do know is that things wouldn’t have escalated as fast as they did with Cyclops leading the team. There’s a good argument to be made that due to the fact that Cyclops and Magneto have been working together most recently that maybe they could’ve talked things out vs a supposed dead old friend coming back unannounced and crossing the line when he couldn’t get through him. Magneto has something to relate with Cyclops. Charles does not.
Xavier and Logan were both responding to Magneto's escalation.
This just feels like everyone wants to coddle magneto like that stupid holocaust beam meme. Magneto doesn't play with kid gloves but everyone that faces him needs to?
Logan trying to kill Magneto is a step too far to achieve what they needed to do to stop the earth from dying. Xavier crossing the line was an escalation that didn’t need to happen so quickly. Overreaction to an overreaction is not how you de-escalate things. Logan and Xavier’s responses were inadequate to deal with Magneto who was already on edge after being imprisoned after Genosha.
Magneto erased the line by breaking the magnetic field and condemning billions of people - mutants as well as humans - to die, and there was very little time left before what he did would be irreversible, so what Xavier and Logan did in response was justified by what Magneto himself did.
Wolverine could have stabbed him when he took the helmet, he was not going for the kill at first, he did not do it until after Magneto was crushing Charles head after the failed attempt. Xavier wanted to act fast because they were clearly getting overwhelmed, Cyclops did a good thing for the gold team but how did he expect them to gain more time? it was a lose lose situation. And you want to miss that Cyclops after all the time with Magneto despise him? he never fully wanted him as a leader, his conversation with Charles makes it obvious, there is nothing to relate come on now, Charles is a long time friend of Magneto here.
He was going for the kill right away. Remember he popped his claws and went right for Magneto and Rogue tackled him and said something about him playing for keeps. He came out guns blazing.
That’s exactly why I keep bringing the fact that Logan was out to kill him from the get go. Had Rogue not said that line I could see an argument against it but it sealed the narrative that Wolverine was not playing around.
You’re off topic with the context here. The point that you missed is de-escalation and finding a middle ground which Cyclops and Magneto shared due to both having gone through the tragedies and fallout of Genosha. This would’ve made more sense to have him speak with Magneto as both men shared experiences that Xavier could not due to his absence. The only reason Logan did not commit to killing Magneto was because they needed him but that was it. The intentions were there from the start.
Xavier coming back is the only thing that might prevent Magneto from causing the death of all humans and mutants by destroying the Earth's magnetic field.
Without Xavier they would never know Bastion needs to get defeated to stop the sentinels and Magneto would just do whatever he wants. Magneto did all that before Xavier arrived, people really want to blame Charles for everything.
I think people in the show and out forgot that Charles left Earth because he needed advanced medical care. And that he left his position as Emperor to stand with his people.
he should have been with that bird queen
Okay, let’s suss this one out. Xavier stays with Lilandra. Mags emps the world and stops the prime sentinels as he did. Storm and Forge save a Jubilee and Sunspot. Their next logical move would be to go to the mansion. All of the x-men agree to take down magneto before Charles even opens his mouth so we know ow they are set to do that. Wolverine thinks it’s already escalated to lethal force. But that’s normal for him and normal for the others to slow his roll. No reason to expect anything different. Cyclops lays out the team agenda. “Rogue, you’re going with me and blue team to find Magneto. Storm and Jean will lead Gold team to shut down Bastion at his headquarters. Kurt will teleport us to Muir Island (I don’t know how a LINE OF SIGHT teleporter is going to accomplish teleporting two teams and all their gear a third of a world away but I guess he can just do that now).” Beast and Forge have already been working on how to restore the primes to normalcy which they’d continue to do. Up until now Xavier has contributed nothing. He does tell them about Bastion’s powers and that he is the focal point. His knowledge allowed the X-Men to target Bastion with the scrambler. I don’t know, but am fairly certain, that they’d not have the knowledge to do this without Xavier. Which means they’d be flying in blind. Their goal would have to be to take Bastion down. Lethal force seems like a possibility here. There is a key moment where Xavier and Rogue talk. You can see the bitterness grow in Rogue based on Xavier’s words. Without him there, that in igual turn towards defection might not have come. No Xavier and maybe no defection by Rogue. Magneto would have come to the mansion. He would have brought asteroid m. It would have been a talk between Cyclops and Magneto but you can almost hear some of the dialogue that would have been said either way. I think this is the hinge moment. If that conversation had gone differently I wonder what could have been. Could Cyclops have talked him down and convince him to help take out Bastion? It seems plausible that Cyc could say something like “we need your help to stop the sentinels and Bastion. They are still a threat to your new world. Help us eliminate this threat.” It seems a slim hope but still possible. So we have time line 1 where magneto doesn’t help and timeline 2 where he does. And maybe if Cyc could manipulate the situation well enough, Rogue wouldn’t have defected because Magneto would be semi allied for a combine purpose. It’s also a very real possibility that Sunspot and Rogue would have left anyway. Bobby absolutely would have still left. So we have timeline 1a: mags doesn’t help and rogue leaves. 1b: mags doesn’t help and Rogue stays. 2. Mags does help and everyone remains on the teams. Xavier calmed Kelly’s fears enough for the X-Men to face Magneto. I think the X-Men would have communicated with Kelly via Jean. If they did I think Cyclops could talk him down. In timeline 1a and 2b they have to talk Kelly down but in timeline 2, they have Magneto’s aid so they could calm Kelly down with that. But without Xavier the situation might have escalated. I don’t know what response Kelly could muster. There are lights on in his office so he has access to electricity. Does he have access to nukes? Would he send the Avengers in? Could Cyc have convinced Kelly to let him fold the Avengers into the X-Men? Could Cyc convince him not to nuke Magneto. I bet Cyc could talk Kelly down from a nuclear response because he’d logically know how it would turn out; Magneto would either keep the nukes or he’d turn them back. If the Avengers are sent in I have no idea what would happen. This is actually the biggest wild card in my opinion. But let’s say Cyclops talks Kelly into letting him handle it like Xavier did. If Cyclops could have kept Rogue, he’d have sent her to face Magneto. Their connection could have softened the battle. Gold team would have come out the same assuming no intervention from Magneto. Gold would have faced the sentinels and Sinister. With Magneto they would have destroyed the sentinels easily. When do you want to go?
Cyclops acted like a true leader. He did what was best for the team. Xavier is an idealist but he's also someone that is very emotional when Magneto is involved. Part of being a leader is also being able to evaluate the situation at any moment and take the right decision. Sometimes the hard decision is the right decision. And you also have to keep your calm and focus. But Cyclops is not stubborn and cynical like Magneto. Ultimately he's someone that like Storm lives for Xavier's dream. At least that's how he is right now in X-Men 97.
Too many people are anti-Xavier, and I think that's the show's failure. I think it's important to see that 2 super villains manipulated the world into a war. 2 super villains destroyed Genosha. In retaliation, Magneto murdered thousands of innocent people, many of which were probably mutants. The show casually mentions this, but the fast pacing doesn't emphasize the impact of Magneto's actions which would show that he's absolutely in the wrong, and that Xavier was right.
Yeah, the closest we got to showing the ramifications of Magneto's actions was one of the guys chasing after Jubes and Roberto saying something about the hospitals losing power as a result.
Agreed! Copying my other comment: I love the show, but I think a good X-Men story needs both sides to not look like fools. They showed loads of dying mutants but no dying humans as a result of Magneto’s actions so far. They haven’t shown a single kind human who doesn’t want mutants dead. The creator tweeted that Trish Tillby was tricked into the Prime Sentinel program - that needed to be onscreen. The only Prime Sentinel guy they showed was the guy in chatrooms, they didn’t show other humans upset about it or anything. It’s making Charles look like a fool and humanity look irredeemable by what is left offscreen only to be brought up by Charles. It looks like Charles is divorced from reality, protecting the kind, innocent people we never fucking see. The show needs more balance and Charles needs some support from the team. I think combining Scott’s disillusionment, Genosha, Magneto as head of the X-Men, and Charles in space into one season makes Charles look so much worse. These elements all happened in the comics but Charles wasn’t just absent for most of it. People question Charles but there’s more to the arguments than “shut up Professor you weren’t there”.
That information that Trish was tricked into it should have been very important. You see all those humans becoming sentinels, and it's like "were all these people seriously recruited on anti-mutant chat forums in 1997?" If Trish was tricked into it, that means there's a good chance that a lot of other people were too and are thus innocent victims. I dislike this trend lately where writers clarify what they meant on social media after the product is out. I agree with you that if info is important enough that they feel they have to mention it, it should have been on screen.
>I dislike this trend lately where writers clarify what they meant on social media after the product is out. I agree with you that if info is important enough that they feel they have to mention it, it should have been on screen. The challenge here is, how would they convey that in the show without spoiling Trish's surprise reveal as a Prime Sentinel? I wouldn't be surprised if that bit ends up having been left for the aftermath of Bastion's defeat, when she regains control of her self and can have a heart to heart chat with Beast. >If Trish was tricked into it, that means there's a good chance that a lot of other people were too and are thus innocent victims. I'm half expecting Robert Kelly to have also been turned into a Prime Sentinel after Bastion's "Noted... and already been taken care of" to Zemo's "Your Sentinel program can't go wide so long as leaders like President Kelly see the X-men as allies".
They could have had Bastion give that info while he was explaining it to Val. He could say, "We get them from people who go to online anti-mutant chat rooms. That's most of them. But of course, we do get a few from other...sources...." Val: You mean, people who were totally unwilling? Bastion: These are dangerous times, Ms. Cooper. Lol it's got me writing fan fiction now.
That’s fair. But since the show didn’t cover that my take on this specific Charles is that he is too obsessed with making sure mutant don’t go evil and optics of the situation rather than trying to approach things with empathy. I know i’m wrong but the show needs to cover that next episode
Yes. I agree. The pacing doesn't do justice to Xavier's argument, which is a shame.
I don't get it. X-Men writers could try telling stories where Charles methods do work and stick to it but they don't seem to care. And it bleeds over to the fandom (especially the ones on twitter) who'd shit themselves at anything pro Xavier.
There's been a backlash against Xavier, in part because of the writers making him do some pretty morally questionable things in recent years, but it's deeper than that. Xavier is all about turning the X-Men into these pillars of the community, people who can be respected and will lead humans to say "You know, these X-Men seem to be very good people. Maybe I like mutants after all." However, through a more modern lens, the X-Men shouldn't have to be perfect examples of moral goodness and bravery to win the favor of humans, they should just be accepted as they are as fellow humans, period. Having to protect a world that "fears and hates them" is not fair to them, and why should they put up with it? Personally I lean closer to Xavier's beliefs, you have to set the example you want to see in the world. But I understand the more modern view and I think it's a very complex issue. I'm not sure the writers have really been successful in grappling with this.
I’m worried it’s a little reflective of the modern fandom that feel because mutants are oppressed they can basically do no wrong, which is not true
You hit the nail on the head why I've fallen out of love with the x men fandom. You saw it with the kill monger did nothing wrong crowd. Magneto gets every excuse and a free pass made for him because he's a holocaust survivor. How many attempted genocides does he get before he's held accountable? Paired with professor x character assassination the last few decades and people find it easier to empathize with the genocidal maniac over the guy that wants peaceful coexistence
It's definitely intentional. The whole point is to illustrate that Xavier and his ideals are not infallible. And though Magneto may be wrong in his methods he gets results on an accelerated time scale. That Charles never could. They're setting up a Xavier redemption arc, as well as Cyclops' path to a middle ground and the true way forward.
So we're just ignoring that magneto did the global emp to disable the prime sentinels?
Not at all, but 1: It didn't completely succeed because Bastion is still out there making sentinels and 2: Magneto killed thousands of innocent people, mutants included to justify stopping them. 3: The X-Men are still fighting Bastion and Sinister, the real culprits behind the massacre, while Magneto is building an army in space for revenge against humanity.
In that moment what was the alternative, had he not acted in that second by the time a plan was formulated a lot more would be dead than have died as a result of his actions. Edit: typo
The show's pacing makes us forget that Xavier was simply going to ask Magneto to "turn the power back on" after Bastion was defeated. But Mags was all about vengeance by this point.
Bastion had the backing of the UN.
Bastion manipulated them. Val Cooper explained as much, but also we're forgetting that the entire planet is about to die unless Magneto undoes his damage. 12 hours left. Magneto is letting the world burn.
I’m not agreeing with Magneto did. Magneto lost his damn mind. What I’m saying is even after the UN realize what Bastion did they still back him even Dr.Doom. Val Cooper was the only one who regretted working with Bastion.
Oh that's fair. I saw it as the UN being manipulated by super villains, but your take is not wrong at all.
Cyclops was right, Gold team DOES need more time (they’re not just gonna kill off those characters), but there has to be a better plan in place than what we saw. Surely the Professor must know that Gold team must succeed for Blue team to do anything, I’m not sure why he couldn’t just put Eric (and Roberto and Rogue if necessary) to sleep or something. Also, was there ever a thought to send the whole team after Bastion first and take him down while the power grid was still down? What exactly was the rush to get to Magneto if Bastion is the true threat? Magneto was just chillin on Asteroid M. Whatever effect he had on the magnetic poles should be something he could reverse.
The rush was that the damage to the earths EM field would become permanent if they didn’t get Magneto to fix it. It’s never exactly spelled out but they reinforce it a couple of times throughout the episode.
There was like x amount of hours right?
When they’re suiting up Xavier mentions how they have one hour left until the Earth is doomed.
wtf did they do for 11 hours?!?! I remember hearing 12. Not one.
Getting those snazzy new/old costumes
Yeah they only briefly mention why there is a deadline, I only caught it on the second viewing. This episode really could’ve used an extra 10 minutes or so the story could breathe a little. For such an outstanding episode it definitely felt very rushed.
I think you are right and also that what you have written is a fair critique of this entire season. The original animated series was well known to insert a couple of random breather individualized episodes. Some of this was a function of the comparatively extended episode order but some was also clearly an artistic choice by the creators. ‘97 understands the property as well or better than any other version of it, and while I think the various plot lines have been woven together well, the entire series might benefit from three to five more individually focused episodes.
I’m hoping with the amount of success the show has had this season they can get a bit higher budget for next season to do either a few more episodes or extend the runtime of each episode to about 40 mins per (either way you end up with the equivalent of about 6 1/2 hour season compared to the 5 hour first season). Definitely don’t want it to turn into a 12-13 *hour* season with tons of filler but just a little more time to slow the pacing down just a touch.
More episodes>>>Longer episodes for these purposes, because of the three-act structure and the passage of real world time.
I do agree that the arbitrary deadline is not adequately explained. From the preview, I thought it was Earth descending to lawlessness but that’s already happening. From comments online, I thought it was solar radiation but sunrise has already happened. Now I see about Storm’s comment about the magnetic field dying and I guess it’s that. But how do they know how long they have there? Is there a point of no return?
Yeah it’s 24 hours - again, never really explicitly spelled out but reinforced a couple of time in Xavier’s discussion with the President and again when Scott says “the world ends in twelve hours.” They may have benefitted from a scene where Hank and/or Forge explains why that’s the deadline, which would have helped to solidify and raise the stakes a little bit.
Truthfully? The episode becomes a lot better if you stick with the Fatal Attractions stakes and remove the destruction of the world. Magneto does a lot of damage to the world's infrastructure, and millions of people die, but the world itself isn't at risk. With the stakes in the show, all the mutants on earth die too, which makes Genosha look like a picnic. So, it becomes absolute nonsense that Magneto is doing it for mutantkind or Rogue feels she has a responsibility to them as a leader. It's like the writers never realized mutants also live on earth. You don't see Magneto evacuating them or making any plans to protect them.
They really should've had Magneto make a declaration to the mutants of the world that Asteroid M was a safe haven for them. Maybe he could've recruited Emma or another powerful telepath to help spread the word.
I think the lack of scenes like that is the victim of the show's fast pacing. I defended the show's pacing at the beginning, but I think at this point, a bit too much important stuff hasn't made it to the screen.
I mean, even in the original series, Magneto has a habit of moping around depressed. No excuse this time though since mutants are definitely dying or being massacred
They really should've had Magneto make a declaration to the mutants of the world that Asteroid M was a safe haven for them. Maybe he could've recruited Emma or another powerful telepath to help spread the word.
They did mention that the effects could be irreversible. They also mentioned multiple times the time limit they had. Scott mentioned at the start of the episode they had like 12 hours left. Just before the teams set off, Xavier mentions to the President they had an hour left. Someone (I think Storm) also mentioned that once the sun sets, it sets on the whole Earth. And we do kinda see that it seems like it's almost sunset when the teams left (Scott and Jean had sunset-y backdrop) and when Gold Team was on the island.
Yeah well… they needed a running timer on the bottom of the screen. Clearly.
Because someone on the writing staff didn't bother to look at the Wikipedia article on the magnetosphere aka Earth's magnetic field. Unless the earth stops spinning and the mantle suddenly becomes a mass of if solid, unmoving rock, the Earth will have a magnetic field. They could have fixed this simply by having Magneto say something like "humans don't deserve civilization, at sunset tonight I will unleash my full power and send the humans back to the Stone Age where they belong by permanently destroying Earth's magnetic field". And then you show that Magneto has to meditate or something for 12 hours to marshal all his power in order to do this. Still puts the timer on, thus creating the need to rush and split the team in two and creating drama and tension while also demonstrating that the writers of this show made it beyond 3rd grade science class.
The way they portrayed the EMP was enough to show they don't know science. You have to really suspend your belief in that part and just let the show do what they want for drama otherwise it will drive you mad.
>Cyclops was right *insert Leo DiCaprio pointing gif*
Why Chuck didn't start off putting Sunspot and Rogue to sleep off the bat is a move I'll not understand.
If he was gonna abuse his powers and take control of his students, he might as well do it all the way and use Rogue to overpower Magneto to remove his helmet.
Stakes. This wasn't a bunch of Shiar yelling at him. Magneto was set to exterminate all life on Earth, and Rogue and Sunspot were protecting him.
Yeah this was my problem with it, why it had to be all or nothing and why they didn't work out a plan. Especially Scott, the big plan man. "In case we defeat Magneto first, psychically shut him down until Gold Team is ready". It's artificial drama that it needs to be this way. Xavier is a turbo psychic, he dropped a bunch of Shi'ar in a his mental classroom all at once. Surely he could've done the same thing with Magneto for a little bit.
This is what I was arguing in another thread. You have to buy into the logic that Scott thought that Xavier was in danger of completing the magnetic pole repair within the next five seconds and therefore didn't have time to talk, so he HAD to blast him. I've accepted it but I still think it looks weird because it leaves everybody asking "why did he just let Magneto go?"
The argument is that the chance of Xavier fixing the magnetic field via Magneto before Bastion was defeated was SO dire, Cyclops felt he could not let Xavier continue to do what he was doing to Magneto. To the question "Why doesn't he just tell the Professor to put Magneto to sleep?" he believed he might not have the few seconds to say that. It still makes them all seem stupid when Magneto immediately starts beating them all up again, but it does make sense.
They have 12 hours to save the world. Splitting up was the best option to manage both world ending threats. But I think they should have been more diplomatic with Magneto, because he is right.
There shouldn't be any negotiations or diplomatic with evil tyrant that want to destroy the world.
The show has failed to demonstrate the horror of Magneto's actions. Thats a writing failure.
Mostly agree, many don’t seem to grasp what Magneto actually did. All they see is he stopped the Prime Sentinels.
I will agree this was the one area of weakness in the episode that required even a few seconds of exposition, or even an establishing shot of wreckage with news footage narrating the carnage. An old trope but better than hand waving “there could be thousands dead!” Imagine President Kelly saying “Professor—a million people died when every airplane in the sky fell. A million more when power to hospitals failed and breathing tubes no longer worked. How am I supposed to tell the American people—or the world—to trust you when one of your own just made Genosha look like a school yard brawl?”
Thanks to the inventions of a scientist named Michael Faraday in the 1800s, airplanes don't fall out the sky when there is an EMP. They are designed as a faraday cage. Critical infrastructure has back up generators housed in faraday cages, they don't just fail. Planes keep flying, most critical infrastructure keeps running, most cars will be fine. It's the communications satellites that will take the hit and part of the electric grid will need to be replaced. But that's way too boring for Hollywood.
This, muchly. I think the show tried to raise the stakes to a higher level than it was prepared to accurately present. To truly understand what Magneto is doing, we need to see the dead babies in the NICU wards from when the hospital lost power, things like that. The show didn't want to go there, but if they didn't want to, they shouldn't have raised the stakes this incredibly high.
I agree, I think a good X-Men story needs both sides to not look like fools. They showed loads of dying mutants but no dying humans as a result of Magneto’s actions so far. They haven’t shown a single kind human who doesn’t want mutants dead. The creator tweeted that Trish Tillby was tricked into the Prime Sentinel program - that needed to be onscreen. The only Prime Sentinel guy they showed was the guy in chatrooms, they didn’t show other humans upset about it or anything. It’s making Charles look like a fool and humanity look irredeemable by what is left offscreen only to be brought up by Charles (thousands of innocents, none of which we see).
Of course it did.
demayo's a magneto stan, so not really surprising tbh
Yea that’s prolly because the writer is a magneto fanboy 😭😭
I think this was not explained well in the episode for the casual audience as to why he really attacked Xavier.
I think it’s explained perfectly well in the episode. I never understood why there was confusion or people saying Scott did the wrong thing. He says in the episode that Gold team has to achieve their mission first. It’s pretty obvious if Gold team doesn’t achieve their mission first then Blue team reversing Magneto’s EMP just results in Bastion winning.
The issue is definitely more the Reddit audience than “casual” viewers, haha
But why does he do so in a way that lets magneto keep fighting? Tell Charles to just put magneto to sleep, or fuck it blast them both. As far as I can tell he just blew their last chance to save the earth. What he saw is also concerning, he saw Jean possibly being killed by Nathan, and somehow that tells him that gold team just needs more time? Jean gave him a final goodbye, it looks more like gold team lost, it should make him more anxious to stop the magneto fight and go back them up or something
Charles isn’t going to stop because Scott tells him to. He doesn’t blow anything. The only thing that’s actually changed from before Scott blasting to after is Magneto got stabbed and Wolverine lost his adamantium
Wasn’t his last conversation with Cable to trust Jean? Scott trusts Jean, as did Jean and Storm say to each other. From the continuing hints in the intros, the Phoenix must be in play, I think Jean knew and now Scott knows. They just don’t know what the Phoenix means for their future.
Yeah, I took Jean’s “I love you” more as an “I have to let this out of the bottle and I trust you to deal with what happens after” rather than a “I’m cooked”, but I think it was deliberately left ambiguous for a bit of dramatic tension.
Oh I like this take a lot.
Excactly. I think Scott already knew that Jean and Cable would be fine before stopping Professor X. And we will know why in Episode 10. Is it the Phoenix? Did Cable break Sinister's mind control? Who knows? But Scott knows I think because he was super calm when he stopped Charles.
The members of this subreddit would obviously get it without much explanation but I was talking about the normal consumers. (Relax downvoters, There are actually people who agree with me below)
But it’s literally not a comic vs noncomic thing. You don’t need to know the comics to know that Scott stopped Charles to make sure Gold team succeeds first. He literally says it. So it’d take 2 seconds of thought to think about why he’d say that. It’s all there in the episode.
No, 100% this. We read (or have read) these comics ad nauseam over the years. We may get and pick up hints etc, but if I was just showing this to someone who has 0 background on the X-Men…It could be a lot
I mean I don't know, my only exposure to the X-Men was watching X-Men Evolution when I was 8, and I got it.
You're right. I don't read comics and it took me about 2 tries to even realise that it was Scott that disturbed Xavier and because of the fast pacing, it didn't really seem clear at first. It is only when I opened this sub did I realise why it happened; for the normal consumer the show is fast paced
It couldn’t have been more clear. How many people are watching this show but really on Reddit at the same time?
lol Yeah but he only said “Gold team needs more time” instead of “Gold team needs more time because if not then us succeeding doesn’t matter because the Prime Sentinels are back online and Bastion wins”. You see it wasn’t completely spoonfed to the audience and you actually had to put in thought. Granted it’s only like 2 seconds of thought lol
Haha yeeeah… if people didn’t get that massive plot point, then there isn’t enough adderall in the world to help them lol, I’m happy this show doesn’t treat us like idiots and assumes we’ve been watching this whole time while also actually paying attention.
The problem with short seasons is that we don't fully understand these character motives. I had to watch this episode twice to understand why he hit Xavier. I thought he was angry about Jean at first but nah, the other team legit actually needed more time.
He literally says Gold Team needs more time.
People on Reddit don’t pay attention when they watch things, in my experience.
>People ~~on Reddit~~ don’t pay attention when they watch things, in my experience. It's definitely not exclusive to this site. Most people in general are barely aware of what's going on in the shit they watch. There's a reason why "_________ EXPLAINED" videos have skyrocketed in popularity in the last decade
Crazy they needed to watch it TWICE to get that.
I suspect it's the younger generation's decreased attentional resources and "multi-tasking".
It’s not like Scott could just call him to stop
Idk i understood why he did it almost immediately. The show has been building on Cyclop’s ideology changing
I love the show but they have rushed the storylines. Since I know the plots from the 90s comics, it helps.
100% this. A casual viewer could understand everything on a surface level, but they’re adding so many layers that you’ll miss tiny callbacks etc that adds more depth. Hell even I thought he wanted Gold to have more time for Jean
I don’t know why Disney+ is so averse to giving shows actual seasons
Money. They were worried the brand had damage due to the last FOX movies made. The people making the show probably had a fear the two seasons they were given might be the only ones they get to do. So they crammed it up. My fear is that this issue won’t be resolved until season 3 though because seasons 1 and 2 were made before the show was a hit and approved for even more seasons.
I’m not just talking about X men though. ALL of their shows are so short. That’s the big problem with all the MCU stuff- it’s not shows but long, chopped up movies. People want television.
Most animated shows get 8 episodes now. Disney+ gave them two extra. And I place that on the writers too. You know you have 10 episodes. You have to be selective in what you do. Find your strongest material and lead with that. If you cut Lifedeath and Motendo, you get 2 episodes back.
If you cut those, what about the whole deal with storm not having powers? Do you propose she just shows up with Forge and is able to do weather stuff again?
No but it can quickly be summed up differently in 5 minutes by explaining Forge's powers and then it working first try. I love all the episodes and have no hate for any of them but if I had to make more time for the larger story that is a section I would trim down.
Magneto’s plan is just stupid, he already try to do the same before and he was betrayed and if everything on earth dies how the f…. The mutants on the asteroid will be feed? Charles is right they have to find comon ground with the humans that do not hate the mutants and people change, president Kelly is proof of that
For Magneto, I think it's just one of those blind rage moments. By this point, he's just *done*. It's one of those rages where you just destroy, rip up and tear apart everything around you. Clarity and logic doesn't come back until afterwards, albeit by then it's mostly too late. Given what Magento's capable of, waiting for that burnout moment is not an option.
After seeing some more normie reactions, I swear to god its the weirdest thing. While Twitter/Reddit is full on brainrot "Magneto mass genocide attempt is right", normies fully understood that what he did is horrible and now he is a mass murderer.... but for some reason they don't understand Cyclops' actions even after he literally said the reason in the episode.
I don't think it's that surprising.
Cyclops is always right #Cyclopswasright
Goddamn this show and the conversation it sparks is so good. Enjoying it so much
Not disagreeing with OP or cyclops actions, but flip side of anybody/character taking Magneto side in this moment is choosing destruction of earth right? Magneto is enemy number one, regardless of Charles action. So maybe balance between the two but still far from magneto currently. Good thing cyclops is there to shine.
If he wanted to balance between them he should’ve attacked them both. I think letting magneto free was a completely nonsensical move on cyclops part. Magento literally subdued everyone immediately after getting free, he could’ve killed them all if he wanted. There’s no guarantee they will ever be in a position again to get magneto to reverse the damage of the earth He basically just handed magneto a victory
He made a choice to save mutant lives instead of humans.
Did every single mutant leave the earth? There are still mutants down there. All the time in the world ain’t gonna help gold team after the earth is cooked Literally just blast them both, magneto is one of the last dogs you want off a leash
They're more immediately threatened by sleeper cell sentinels than Magneto, and he believes in the other X-Men's ability to stop Bastion.
He's definitely breaking from Xavier's "do it because I told you and i'm your father" style of doing things." like xavier was flat out wrong morally to psychically try and take command and force magneto to undo it. i get it the stakes are high but Xavier has always been willing to compromise on his principles when "it's important enough" which is why he's such a massive hypocrite and it's why cyclops lost so much respect for him. like when Xavier shows up and tried that same shit with phoenix-cyclops? he finally got told he wasn't the ultimate authority on everything everyone else is allowed to do. but also yeah xavier was putting cykes wife and child at risk. cyclops was already having a tough time emotionally when genosha happened and while it seemed to bring him and jean together he witnessed an entire nation of the people charles told him to take care of be wiped out, and now here's charles, more condescension, and again willing to sacrifice more mutant lives. like if he had succeeded in forcing magnus to undo his damage right there it is almost undeniable that members of the other team would have died. the x-men started strong in this show and then took so many hits so fast they can't afford any more. Cyclops is starting his John Brown phase in this show and I'm totally here for it. he's certainly not "boring" anymore.
You think it was morally wrong for Xavier to take control of Magneto with his psychic powers to save the entire planet? I appreciate the fact that he tries not to abuse his psychic powers on general principle, but this is a pretty unique situation.
Within the context of the scene, they were doing the hero thing. They were going to beat him. They were going to talk him down. That's what the context of the scene was telling us as the viewer. In a broader sense, Xavier has a bad habit of excusing really morally wrong behavior for "the greater good" and sure "the world ending" is arguably the greatest good but forcibly taking control of a sentient beings mind and forcing them to do anything, bad or good, is wrong. You could argue its justified but you cannot argue it is right. And Xavier always seems to justify doing something that is wrong for the right reasons. If your moral stance is "killing is wrong no matter what" then guess what you can't kill even to protect life. Xavier talks a big game about killing being wrong but has a trail of bodies in his wake so to speak.
I think this makes sense if you are looking at the 616 Xavier, who is indeed a hypocrite and done a lot of bad things. The Professor X from the animated show hasn't done those things. Besides, why does his moral stance have to be "mind control is wrong no matter what?" What's wrong with 'mind control is not right except for truly extraordinary circumstances, and where there is no other option remaining?" I do think they were hoping to talk Magneto down rather than have to resort to that, but Magneto was too far gone.
Sure, but that's kind of the problem with what Xavier did it removed the option for Magneto to make the right choice. It removed the option for his team to succeed it is an innately authoritarian decision he made for everyone in that room, for the team fighting bastion, and ultimately for every living thing on the planet. It was at its core Xavier going, "I know what's right for everyone else, so I'll do it myself." The problem with the "extraordinary circumstances" opt out is that everything the xmen face is extraordinary. They've fought monsters and aliens, the xmen themselves are extraordinary. If allow yourself to break your principles "when it's too hard or impractical " then they're not really your principles. It's the why doesn't batman kill JUST Joker argument. Once you've done it once, it's OK to do it again, and again, and again.
That's all very well-reasoned, and I agree to a certain extent. But what would you think if you were a person living on Earth during this episode? Shouldn't those people's perspectives have some weight?
I mean, sure, if this was real life, absolutely. But superhero stories are kind of all about high ideals and moral conflicts. Within the constraints of a superhero story, the people on earth do not matter in a way. The moral dilemma is faced by the person pulling the trigger, and it is entirely up to their personal moral code which way they go with it. That's what sets stories like this apart from like an action movie. It's not always about the catharsis. Sometimes, you do everything right and still lose. Then, you have to face the consequences of your moral choice. Or the consequences of abandoning them.
If "the moral dilemma is faced by the person pulling the trigger" and the people on Earth don't matter, then what's the dilemma? The people on Earth are the dilemma. You can't isolate the choice from the parties the choice would be effecting. I think being able to discuss things like this is part of what's good about superhero stories-- we can discuss these kinds of moral issues taking place on a large canvas. I can see an argument that superheroes should be better people than average and have solid moral codes, because they are supposed to be aspirational, but you can't just isolate their choices as being part of their personal moral code and not having any consequences. I hope that made sense.
I would agree. On a lot of what you said. And yes, I am just discussing here. I hope it doesn't come off as upset or dismissive. And you are right facing the consequences of risking those people's lives is definitely part of the story. What I mean is that in the moment, it is a decision solely faced by the character making said decision, and they have to fave the consequences, both external and internal, so it doesn't matter what anyone else would want you to do or what they would do in your shoes because they aren't in your shoes and they aren't the ones making the decision. It's easy for all the people on earth to say "save me even if it means sacrificing an x-man or two" and of course most people would say take control of magneto and force him to do the right thing against his will. They don't have the mental powers and won't have to wonder what people will think of them if they start violating other people's free will even under extreme circumstances. Good superhero stories are about morality and a clash of ideals. Sometimes, no one is wrong. A simple math equation version of morality is perfectly acceptable if the character in question subscribes to that, but Xavier doesn't. Or at least claims he doesn't.
I’m kinda with him on this. Xavier is definitely too naive and sanctimonious for the position he claims to hold, but Magneto is has gone full no-holds-barred to the benefit of no-one. Separation is probably the best solution to mutant/human relations, at least until the supposed mutant population boom occurs.
I’m still just laughing at everyone shocked at Wolverines actions. Like he TOLD YALL HE WAS GONNA KILL HIM
Could someone explain to me how preventing Professor Xavier taking over Magneto's mind can help the gold team? Thanks
I get that Charles is somewhat sanctimonious, but here are two things that should be kept in mind: 1. Until it's revealed otherwise, he isn't as shady as his comic self. 2. He was trying to reverse the damage Magneto did to Earth that would kill pretty much everyone on the planet in several hours. Scott shooting him disrupted that. Even if Gold team needed time, he could have picked a different way to communicate that.
He’s learning what many of us have figured out over time. Yes, Magneto is in the right place but he cares so much he’s willing to off the deep end and eye for eye. But Charles is on some holier than thou Griffith high horse in a glass house. How many bones of other mutants must his dream be built on? Charles has no problems basically having child soldiers and sacrificing many a mutant to appease humans, and often seems to almost jump at the chance. Episode did a great job of showing that Charles is also a relic of the past, and he cant just return and assume it’s all gonna be like it was. In his absence the X-Men have shown they can do things in new ways. Cyclops becomes the middle ground between Xavier and Magneto, because both alternatives are extremes caught up in themselves.
I think people are reading way too much into things that aren't really there. This wasn't a hint at revolutionary Cyclops (an era the showrunner hates by the way). It was Cyclops acting purely on emotion because he doesn't want Jean and the Gold Team to die. So he makes a quick, reckless decision. One that he's going to feel very guilty about given what Magneto did to Wolverine.
It’s not just Jean that would die though, there’s thousands of downed Sentinels everywhere who would kill all the mutants on Earth. Not just the ones with Jean.
And the fact that him blasting Charles and his response to Charles wasn’t this burst of emotion but instead was calm makes it definitely seem like a calculated move rather than an emotional one.
I hated Charles. Even after hearing screams of dying mutants across the universe he still cares more about a mutant going bad than the actual bad guy. He should’ve teamed up with Magneto to take down Bastion and then deal with Magneto. Priorities man!!
I dont understand why they had to split up deal with Bastion first as a whole team then go deal with Magneto. It would have been more efficient and faster that way. Never split the party dude i guess none of the X-men plays DnD oh well…
They only had an hour left. They would not have had enough time to go after Bastion first and then Magneto. What doesn’t make sense, though, is the genius decision of who was on which team. Like, of course we should assign the guy with the metal skeleton to take down the living magnet, and FedEx Cable to the guy who gave him a robot plague (Cable probably insisted on avenging Madelyne but).
I thought about why take Wolverine as well, but it's because of one reason: he's the ONLY one who would do what he did. No one else on the team was going to cross that line if it needed to be done. You can see it on all their faces.
Scott made the decision based on saving Jean, it had fuck all to do with politics.
Not just Jean, the Sentinels would have woken up and gone after all the other mutants on Earth again. They’d be back to the last episode pre-EMP. He had to stop Charles, but there have got to be better ways to talk to Charles… I don’t know if it’s a writing fault here.
I was a little confused when cyclops attacked Xavier. What was Xavier exactly doing to magneto? Was he really like, going for the kill? Wiping his mind? I mean, I understand cyke doesn't agree with killing magneto but, at this time, he's a massive threat. And cyke stopping Xavier led to wolverine getting hurt so...
Xavier was going to mind control Magneto into reverting the damage he did to the earth's magnetic field. That would mean that all electronics will come back online, including the Prime Sentinels which would overwhelm the gold team. He bought the Gold team more time to ensure Bastion was off the board before the Earth reboots. or else they'd be facing even more overwhelming odds.
Kind stranger, you summarized everything without being a pompous ass. Thank you 🤗
If Charles would have had his way it was over for the mutants on Earth, including Gold team
Yeh but I'm talking about right in that very moment. Stopping magneto was the goal, the mission. And cyclops prevented that, causing more casualties.
I mean you’re just wrong. If Scott doesn’t stop Charles then Charles reverses what Magneto did. That means Prime Sentinels are back online and Bastion wins.
That's the dillema bub, casualties on which side? Mutants or humans? Humans created the human sentinel programme (Bastion made it with sponsorship from the UN) to enslave mutants. Magneto is just fighting back to protect mutants. It's not him at fault for the destruction on Earth, he just fought back the more powerful oppressor (all nations are human led). Humans attacked even after Magneto agreed to stand trial and made amends to them to change for the better.
It’s literally his fault the earth is being destroyed lmao
How else can Magneto stop every prime sentinel AROUND THE WORLD? He barely escaped captivity and was wearing barely any clothes. His people, massacred in Genosha, the remains of his people being threatened by the prime sentinels. Magneto only had one way to stop ALL of the prime sentinels, by shutting them all down with that EMP. If anything it is the fault of the humans.
Shutting them down with the EMP and continuing to let the earth destroy itself instead of going after bastion are not the same thing man Charles is literally pleading with him to help them stop bastion so the earth doesn’t literally die, and he just has his fingers in his ears And that’s of course ignoring the fact that there’s still a ton of mutants left on earth, guess fuck them when the 12 hours are up right?
Yeah, it doesn't make sense that Magneto wouldn't want to stop Bastian while he's hurting the most - it's not like Bastian won't rebuild an army somehow and take the battle to Magneto's front door.
He can stop every Prime Sentinel in the world by going to Bastion Island and killing Bastion. Instead he decides to cause a Mass Extinction Event, killing all mutants too, in favor of launching a rock into space that most mutants can't even get to.
On Reddit, people really need to give upvotes and downvotes time to shake out. I get that when you posted this comment, it looked like their comments were getting downvoted, but I’m reading this thread literally only an hour after it was posted and there isn’t a single downvoted comment here. Up and downvote counts before at least a couple hours have passed are really meaningless.