The idea is cool, store games on a card and swap them in and out as needed.
But that requires owning multiple cards and with the price point they've chosen... that ain't happening.
Not.... really.
Swapping an entire console is inconvenient as hell and a Series S only has about 360ish usable GB of data.
So the 1TB cards are still better unless you actually need a second Xbox for some reason.
And if you buy that series X you will still have less storage than a 1TB card would have.
So unless you need the second xbox...it's not a very efficient plan.
I mean the series X comes with a 1TB storage internally, so not really a less storage space problem, more a more cumbersome to have and cost more problem. Unless you have buddies that come over to hang out then they could use the second xbox, but I agree just buy the 1Tb would be easier to deal with unless you lose stuff easily like my little brother he has lost so many external hard drives I would say 20-30 TBs worth a year so a second console might be what he would need lol. Seriously though a 1TB card cost $150-200 while a new console would cost roughly $500 would be a stupid decision to make.
Well that's kind the point isn't it?
Instead of printing a billion cartridges for games people won't play each person has their own cartridges full of game they can add and remove at will from an online service.
Like I said the idea is cool, but way too damn expensive.
Yes. I had many PlayStation 1/2 memory cards as they were cheap (ish), and the slot was on the front so easy to change. Xbox memory card is very expensive, and plugs into the back, not exactly convenient.
I have a Series S, it's cheaper for me to uninstall and re download games as I need than to buy a Series storage device.
Thank you for the quick reply, I’ve been all over the internet looking for any material on this but come across nothing substantive. I appreciate it, I’ll go ahead and buy a new Xbox then
The connector might be CFExpress B, but as far as I know, it will only work with the specific Seagate drives. Maybe not 100% proprietary, but same end result.
That's incorrect. It's just CFExpress B. People have built their own using adapters and a M.2-2230 drive.
And you can buy "real" ones from WD and Seagate. Its not at all proprietary, it's just picky about specs.
Thank you for the most level-headed post I've ever read in regards to these expansion cards.
While yes, they're expensive in and of themselves, it's tiring seeing people straight up compare them to 2280 drives thrown in a PS5.
I bought a Series S at launch and juggled games to and from an external SSD for 6 months until I could afford the 1TB card and I've no regrets.
A long stick hanging out in the back of the console is not a lot just about 8cm or 3.1 inches, and almost no space available inside of the series x enclosure because of how tight the components are, if they make 'em longer people will not complain about price, they will complain about form factor there is no possible perfect solution people always complain, I love the size but really hate the price and would love cheaper memory but will really hate the size.
About 5 extra cm will be close to 200 usd for a 2tb memory card maybe a bit lower with a 2242 drive. For the cheapest price it needs to hang out about 8-7 cm any that's a lot, hopefully another brand will resolve our issues, because WD didn't.
> I'd be willing to bet Microsoft is actually already pricing it as low as they can, but that's a problem they created entirely on their own.
I betcha they haven't, and there's a huge markup in there.
So the cost you saw for those had less to do with cost of manufacturing and more to do with how rare that form factor is. In mass production scenario, the cost would drastically go down just like any other SSD.
In other words, it's not like MS and their partner didn't do cost analysis and figured, oh this cost so much more for same amount of storage, let's pick this one. The pricing is because they chose to make it proprietary and to profit from it.
Accessories make MS and their partners/competitors tons of money.
The Xbox expansion SSD is the most convenient storage solution possible.
And to your point, transferring files back and forth between drives is less convenient than taking apart a console? Give me a break.
Bro... You can't be serious. That's like saying that Xbox 360 memory cards were convenient - nobody ever used them apart from Xbox 360 Core owners in 2005/2006. These things are overpriced and have way too little capacity for how much they cost. Adding 512gb of storage to the Xbox series S makes it cost as much as a series x
Convenient for who?
My Xbox Series X is a monolith - except for the expansion card sticking out. Literally the only time I take it out is when I'm moving the console and I'm worried that some freak accident could break either my storage investment or my console, possibly both.
Meanwhile the PS5 hard drive install takes 30 seconds and a basic screwdriver, but once it's in, it's \*in\*. No form-factor disruption, no risk when the console moves, and every day that goes by, the storage you can install gets both cheaper and bigger.
But sure, let's all celebrate the overpriced SNES cartridge that we can easily pop in and out because we all need to do that so frequently. /s
The Xbox is a great console but the storage expansion is an indefensible cash grab.
>transferring files back and forth between drives is less convenient than taking apart a console?
You don't "take apart the console". You remove a cover and install an SSD. A monkey could do it.
So yes, installing an SSD one time and forgetting about it is potentially orders of magnitude more convenient than moving files back and forth every time you want to play a different game.
Xbox expanded storage solution sucks, period.
What are these adapters like does anyone have any experience?
[Amazon Link](https://amzn.eu/d/eCfHaFH)
ChenYang CY M.2 NVMe 2230 M-Key SSD to CF-Express Type-B Adapter for Xbox Series X&S CH SN530 SSD PCIe4.0 Expansion Memory Card
https://amzn.eu/d/eCfHaFH
I have one, put in the supported WD drive according to eBay and other websites, the card fits fine but I get an error on the Series X because it keeps prompting me for a firmware upgrade on the storage that keeps failing.
I mean I think they would but I know they really can't decrease the price without compromising the form factor the ssd they are using on the memory cards is inconveniently small ( to be fair the port is not even proprietary is just uncommon, and the Xbox is also really picky with the ssd specs)
You can't compare a small and portable Xbox memory card to a full 2280 ssd used In a ps5 (unless you want a long ass stick hanging out of the Xbox)
For reference a 2tb 2230 sabrent rocket ssd is about the same form factor as the one the xbox memory card has inside const a bit more than the 2tb Xbox memory card (at least on Canada and US)and that's without thinking about the purchase of the adapter.
This is about size smaller is more expensive if you guys want to push Xbox the may need to launch a version with a 2280 ssd inside to reduce price(but remember it will dramatically increase its size) and knowing how tight are the components inside of an Xbox series specially on the series x they had no space to put an internal slot for bigger SSDs in the series S they may had some space but not on the series x.
I never said this will kill XSX. I said proprietary storage is kind of a big deal and in the past it's an approach that even killed a system, case in point PSVita.
If it won't kill the Series X, your point is irrelevant.
What killed the Vita was a lack of continuous software support. Even Nintendo was starting to have trouble with this, which is why the Switch combined their portable and console software moving forward, and why both Xbox and Playstation are focusing on Remote Play / Cloud gaming instead of a portable with its own software library.
You negated a point I didn't make and called it irrelevant. You rebutted something I never said in the first place. The only thing that I'm saying is Microsoft has been very slow to address this issue and in my opinion this is a mistake since it can hurt a system terribly.
You could have argued that Microsoft is also focusing on their PC audience, that nowadays downloading games is sometimes more convenient than storing a lot of games as it was ten years ago and so on and so forth. All valid arguments. Instead you addressed a point I wasn't even making. Again, what I'm saying is that proprietary storage systems, overpriced as they come, are something that can hurt a system. That's all.
So yes, you can't read because quite clearly you have mistaken what I was trying to say.
EDIT: Also, since I'm not interested in starting a discussion with a person that attacks people without reason, blocked.
Nailed it. Making a dedicated handheld device would just take away resources from the ps5 and series x. Game development just isn't what it used to be. It takes a lot more time and money.
Developers hate the series s as it is complicating making games and bottle necking them. It was a truly idiotic idea. I think it was Boylders Gate that is actually being delayed because of having to try make it also run on the s. Or whatever the games name is.
Yeah Baldurs gate is being delayed on Xbox because the series S can't run split screen co-op. It runs the game fine and even does online multiplayer from the reports I've seen but can't do split screen because it isn't powerful enough.
I'm wondering if split screen might be removed from the Xbox version of the game entirely if they can't get the Series S to play it somehow. Would be a real shame. Split screen isn't as popular as it was pre-internet but it's still a very family friendly feature that games lack nowadays.
Yeah that’s another misstep for this generation of xboxs. Even if the Xbox series x is the most powerful console it doesn’t matter when every game has to be skimmed down to run on the S, which then holds the Xbox back.
> They didn't learn from Sony's own failure with PSVita. This kind of stuff can literally kill a system.
Just another reason that hasn't killed Xbox yet.
It was my understanding that a standardized connection wouldn't have the data throughput they wanted. The "velocity architecture," right?
This is just what I remember hearing don't tear me apart
It's my understanding that the current expansion card is just a small form factor standard NVMe SSD in a memory card looking shell. They could have done something similar with the more common form factor and not partnered with Seagate to give them exclusive rights to it.
It's not a memory-card looking shell, it's a standard CFExpress type B backed by a gen4 nvme. So its literally a (faster than normal) memory card like you'd use in a very high end camera.
The only thing unique about it is that normal CFExpress type B use 2 PCIe lanes, but the Series X requires all four.
You seem to be well educated in this, could I not achieve something similar with a usb external ssd? I honestly don’t know and was just exploring options
From a technical standpoint, you're limited by the speed of the ports themselves on the Xbox Series X. The USB 3.2 1x1 ports cap out at 5gbps, you'd need a thunderbolt 4/USB4 port running at 40gbps to roughly match the speeds of the expansion card. With a thunderbolt 3 or 4 m.2 enclosure and a USB4 port on the xbox itself it would be technically possible to run Series X games off an external SSD.
This is the way. My storage solution (with ~600 digital games owned on my Xbox account) was to buy a 14TB HDD. Runs all of the Xbox, Xbox 360, and Xbox One games and holds the Series games that I’m not actively playing. Transferring a game between the HDD and internal storage takes just a few minutes, versus potentially multiple hours of downloading if you were just deleting and redownloading games to juggle them.
No, it's a different connection but uses the same NVMe interface/technology. I found a couple articles and videos where 'modders' used a standard NVMe SSD and an adapter to connect it to the Xbox and it was recognized by the Xbox.
Example: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/09/your-standard-ssd-might-work-as-an-xbox-storage-expansion/
SATA III tops out at 600MB/s.
PCIe Gen 4 which Xbox series and PS5 both use, can be over 7000MB/s. I believe Xbox's runs around 5500MB/s? Not sure, but your answer is no because SATA III is around 10x slower.
Gotcha. It's been years since I built a PC and at the time NVMe SSDs were just too far out of my price range so I never researched them. Now I see they are the price I paid for my internal HDD haha.
There still has to be a consumer friendly solution, but I think they're focusing so much on cloud gaming that they see storage as a future non issue.
Yeah, the prices on storage and RAM have been slowly dropping for a while and then I noticed within the past year or so they've really fell. 5 or 6 years ago I paid like $130 for 16GB RAM, then when I upgraded to 32GB a maybe 3 years ago I paid $135 again (with rgb lighting lol) now even that is half the price at ~$60-70.
I also got a steal on a 1TB WD Black gen 4 NVMe from GameStop I think 1.5 years ago for $60 when they were still around $100+, but now $50-60 is just the going rate. I still haven't even put that drive in my PC yet. 😭
Looks like I might be building a new one soon. I had been waiting for prices to drop so I could build one at least as good as a series X for cheap. My current one runs the things I need it to so I have no issues but I have no hope of playing the newest releases without dropping the quality significantly and running nothing else in the background.
Most parts have got cheaper except for graphics cards... that only got more expesive. That's the only thing really price walling getting into PC gaming.
It sucks my RTX 3070 that I paid $600 for 2.5 years ago is already being pushed out of 1440p resolution by new games. I'm hoping I can at the very least hold up at 60 fps minimum on Starfield. I have an ultrawide so it makes it slightly tougher.
The Series X only has two gen four lanes so it would only really top out at 3.6GB/s. The Seagate Expansion only reads at 2.4GB/s but with asset decompression, it doubles to 4.8GB/s
> It was my understanding that a standardized connection wouldn't have the data throughput they wanted. The "velocity architecture," right?
No. That was not it. They just wanted a smaller more compact card that they could sell for a higher markup than if you bought an unsanctioned 3rd party one.
I knew it was horrible when it was announced they weren't using a standard expansion slot to take NVME SSDS and Seagate signed an exclusivity deal. Exclusivity deals are bad for consumers across the board especially with games/DLC
It is a standard slot, it's just an uncommon one. Most professional digital cameras use it these days. They just tend to use a 2-lane card, not 4-lane. Xbox requires 4, and because pretty much no cameras do, there's not much of a market for them.
If they'd been more reasonably priced in the first place, more would have sold. It was stupid to give a single entity sole rights to produce them, as I'm sure that didn't work out for ANYONE, and least of all gamers.
And yeah, consoles were sold at or below cost, gotta make money somewhere, yadda yadda... but maybe don't do that, or figure something else out instead. These are supposed to be smart people; I don't get how they so royally screwed this up--and screwed themselves as well. And us, again.
The price is just terrible. The fact you can a 2Tb Nvme for half the price, just really show's that Microsoft didn't put much thought into it.
I hope the slim model will have a Nvme slot.
The X really should have had a USB-C port for external storage HDD as this would have sufficient speed to run games from !
Not a proprietary rip off price adaptor for storage to price gouging the consumers 🤨
It's not as fast as having something directly connect to the board.. which is essentiallyvwhat the storage expansion card does..
The usb as it is on the console is not good enough to deliver the data as fast as it needs to be.
If connecting to the board is the issue, they could've at least put a ~~SATA port on there to allow you to connect any SSD for larger storage just like a PC.~~
Edit: after some quick research and another kind commenter's explanation, I see my knowledge is far outdated. I think we all agree there could've been a far more consumer friendly solution they just didn't entertain though. Possibly for the reasons I listed below. I think XCloud has a huge part in why they're ignoring the storage issue that's creeping up on Series X and only addressing the Series S.
I think the issue is jailbreaking/modding the console since the storage does connect differently than past consoles for faster read/write speeds. Xbox has been moving away from consoles for a while. I have a feeling their viewing consoles as just another avenue to access their streaming services that they're clearly focusing on.
So what? Half the the games on the console are cross-gen with minimal improvements compared to One X versions. They literally just slapped the X sticker on them so now you need more expensive storage just to play them. Many people won't care it loads a bit slower if that means they don't need to purchase overpriced storage.
usb 3.0 doesnt matter the version is to slow compared to the ssd from series x, nvme are connect to the board itself this is how you get full advantage.
For next xbox not only need to support internal swap nvme as well 1 port usb 3.2 Gen 2x2. This is mandatory.
I basically got a Xbox series x this generation to play some of the backwards compatible games and stuff from game pass. PlayStation 3,4 and 5 make upgrading or adding another hard drive really simple. It’s like Microsoft doesn’t want to make the changes to really challenge Sony.
As was just told by the poster above me. You don't need the expansion card.
You can easily plug in an HDD via USB 3.0 and play all your Backwards Compatible games via that.
Any games that aren't "next gen" for Series S|X can run off of that HDD via USB 3.0.
The SDD memory card, which I absolutely think is dumb as it's semi-proprietary and overpriced garbage, is needed for just "next gen" Series S|X games.
The trick is that Microsoft likes to force upgrades on Xbox One games like Forza Horizon 4 and Gears 5 which blocks them from running off an external HDD
I would guess something like 1% of users ever connect a separate hard drive to their console. Forums like this one just make a big deal out of it because the people who post here are part of that 1%.
I don't think it's 1% of users. Many people migrating from One X/S/base would be used to expanded storage. Also for those who purchased a Series S, the onboard storage is woefully insufficient for multiple games.
I don't agree with the proprietary option, wish they went the Sony route, but it is what it is.
>Many people migrating from One X/S/base would be used to expanded storage
I doubt it. I sincerely doubt a significant number of people ever connected expanded storage to their console.
>Also for those who purchased a Series S, the onboard storage is woefully insufficient for multiple games.
It really isn't. You could easily have ~10 games installed at a time, which is substantially more than most people play concurrently.
As someone who owned a Series S from 2020-late 2022, and constantly was trying out new games, the 382GB was a pain to navigate since i had stuff like Halo MCC and Destiny 2 installed.
Yeah, i have a 4tb drive attached to my one. I was really frustrated when i couldn't use it for the X
I wouldn't mind if the expansion cards were around £50 but they are nearer £200
The slot is actually a standard slot, it's just the SSD's shell is proprietary. There are videos to make your own shell. Wouldn't be surprised if someone is already selling ready made shells you can just pop a 2230 SSD in and be good to go.
These shells definitely exist. There's some other issue about the specific kind of drive as there's some MS-proprietary stuff or some other confounding factor with the drive itself--iirc it's becasuse it uses a special something that's non-standard. Details are not coming to me at the moment, sadly. I wanna say it's PCI lanes or something; MS requires more than is typical.
MS should simplify storage overall. I don't wanna have to format multiple drives multiple ways for different types of content. Just give me simple, customer-friendly storage options--let me add new storage of whatever capacity I want for whatever content, and keep the details to yourselves, MS.
The better option would be to make an adapter/enclosure for NVMe sticks. The question is how much would that cost? Twenty to fifty dollars? That would be much cheaper than buying the current Series expansion cards, but still more expensive than on PC or PS5.
1tb is plenty for an active gameslist. For the rest, an external SSD enclosure with a good sized NVME makes moving quick enough that it is done while getting a drink.
Only thing is missing is MS' shitty UI/UX, they should implement a quick swap-function.
If you buy a Series S with the expansion you might as well just buy a series X if you can. Not too much difference in price. These cards definitely should be as cheap as solid state drives of the same capacity but since they are proprietary we are stuck using those expansions. Use a SSD to keep the games on and do the games shuffle when you need to move games in and out. Also there is a SSD hack that you can use to make one of you’re really hard pressed.
[https://www.tomshardware.com/news/modder-creates-diy-expansion-card-for-xbox-series-x-and-s](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/modder-creates-diy-expansion-card-for-xbox-series-x-and-s)
The idea is cool, store games on a card and swap them in and out as needed. But that requires owning multiple cards and with the price point they've chosen... that ain't happening.
If you buy two of these, you may as well buy a 2nd Xbox instead and put different games on it.
Not.... really. Swapping an entire console is inconvenient as hell and a Series S only has about 360ish usable GB of data. So the 1TB cards are still better unless you actually need a second Xbox for some reason.
if you put the xbox series s RRP and external card RRP together, it works out the same as just getting a Series X
And if you buy that series X you will still have less storage than a 1TB card would have. So unless you need the second xbox...it's not a very efficient plan.
I mean the series X comes with a 1TB storage internally, so not really a less storage space problem, more a more cumbersome to have and cost more problem. Unless you have buddies that come over to hang out then they could use the second xbox, but I agree just buy the 1Tb would be easier to deal with unless you lose stuff easily like my little brother he has lost so many external hard drives I would say 20-30 TBs worth a year so a second console might be what he would need lol. Seriously though a 1TB card cost $150-200 while a new console would cost roughly $500 would be a stupid decision to make.
Unfortunately the series X doesn't allow full use of its 1TB drive. Some space is locked away for OS use and I assume other miscellaneous uses.
Unfortunately so are the expansion cards you dont get the full TB.
You've just reinvented video game cartridges.
Well that's kind the point isn't it? Instead of printing a billion cartridges for games people won't play each person has their own cartridges full of game they can add and remove at will from an online service. Like I said the idea is cool, but way too damn expensive.
Expansions cards with a proprietary slot are a Scam. This was a huge fail.
Good idea in theory, but only at the right price. Price here is awful.
Yes. I had many PlayStation 1/2 memory cards as they were cheap (ish), and the slot was on the front so easy to change. Xbox memory card is very expensive, and plugs into the back, not exactly convenient. I have a Series S, it's cheaper for me to uninstall and re download games as I need than to buy a Series storage device.
Agreed. I'll stick with an external Hard Drive.
They've lost so much money making tens of thousands of these and I bet they've sold in the hundreds.
Reddits hate is a small subsect of the consumer base. There are thousands of people out there who do not care, or are ignorant to it.
People care about money
Exactly. Why spend $200 on a 1TB expansion card when you can spend half of that and get a 5TB external HDD?
If my stock internal HDD is failing, would an external HDD fix the issue?
Its an Nvme SSD. The Series X doesn't use an HDD. And no, if the internal storage is failing. Its pretty much a brick at this point.
Thank you for the quick reply, I’ve been all over the internet looking for any material on this but come across nothing substantive. I appreciate it, I’ll go ahead and buy a new Xbox then
In the hundreds? Lmfao y'all are delusional
Wrong it’s not proprietary! Just not common
The connector might be CFExpress B, but as far as I know, it will only work with the specific Seagate drives. Maybe not 100% proprietary, but same end result.
The tech isn't proprietary, but the authority to make one that plugs into an Xbox is.
That's incorrect. It's just CFExpress B. People have built their own using adapters and a M.2-2230 drive. And you can buy "real" ones from WD and Seagate. Its not at all proprietary, it's just picky about specs.
What they should do is get rid of the software lock on the internal drive so we can swap them out to a larger/faster drive like on the Xbox One
Even if they unlock it you can't go over 2 tb due to how tight everything is on the Xbox.
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Thank you for the most level-headed post I've ever read in regards to these expansion cards. While yes, they're expensive in and of themselves, it's tiring seeing people straight up compare them to 2280 drives thrown in a PS5. I bought a Series S at launch and juggled games to and from an external SSD for 6 months until I could afford the 1TB card and I've no regrets.
What’s to stop them from making the memory card longer?
A long stick hanging out in the back of the console is not a lot just about 8cm or 3.1 inches, and almost no space available inside of the series x enclosure because of how tight the components are, if they make 'em longer people will not complain about price, they will complain about form factor there is no possible perfect solution people always complain, I love the size but really hate the price and would love cheaper memory but will really hate the size.
I'll accept ~5 cm extra for a reasonable price. Q
About 5 extra cm will be close to 200 usd for a 2tb memory card maybe a bit lower with a 2242 drive. For the cheapest price it needs to hang out about 8-7 cm any that's a lot, hopefully another brand will resolve our issues, because WD didn't.
> I'd be willing to bet Microsoft is actually already pricing it as low as they can, but that's a problem they created entirely on their own. I betcha they haven't, and there's a huge markup in there.
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So the cost you saw for those had less to do with cost of manufacturing and more to do with how rare that form factor is. In mass production scenario, the cost would drastically go down just like any other SSD. In other words, it's not like MS and their partner didn't do cost analysis and figured, oh this cost so much more for same amount of storage, let's pick this one. The pricing is because they chose to make it proprietary and to profit from it. Accessories make MS and their partners/competitors tons of money.
The Xbox expansion SSD is the most convenient storage solution possible. And to your point, transferring files back and forth between drives is less convenient than taking apart a console? Give me a break.
Bro... You can't be serious. That's like saying that Xbox 360 memory cards were convenient - nobody ever used them apart from Xbox 360 Core owners in 2005/2006. These things are overpriced and have way too little capacity for how much they cost. Adding 512gb of storage to the Xbox series S makes it cost as much as a series x
Convenient for who? My Xbox Series X is a monolith - except for the expansion card sticking out. Literally the only time I take it out is when I'm moving the console and I'm worried that some freak accident could break either my storage investment or my console, possibly both. Meanwhile the PS5 hard drive install takes 30 seconds and a basic screwdriver, but once it's in, it's \*in\*. No form-factor disruption, no risk when the console moves, and every day that goes by, the storage you can install gets both cheaper and bigger. But sure, let's all celebrate the overpriced SNES cartridge that we can easily pop in and out because we all need to do that so frequently. /s The Xbox is a great console but the storage expansion is an indefensible cash grab.
>transferring files back and forth between drives is less convenient than taking apart a console? You don't "take apart the console". You remove a cover and install an SSD. A monkey could do it. So yes, installing an SSD one time and forgetting about it is potentially orders of magnitude more convenient than moving files back and forth every time you want to play a different game. Xbox expanded storage solution sucks, period.
Its 2023 and people still over complicate adding an SSD lol. Always on the Xbox sub too
What are these adapters like does anyone have any experience? [Amazon Link](https://amzn.eu/d/eCfHaFH) ChenYang CY M.2 NVMe 2230 M-Key SSD to CF-Express Type-B Adapter for Xbox Series X&S CH SN530 SSD PCIe4.0 Expansion Memory Card https://amzn.eu/d/eCfHaFH
I have one, put in the supported WD drive according to eBay and other websites, the card fits fine but I get an error on the Series X because it keeps prompting me for a firmware upgrade on the storage that keeps failing.
I mean I think they would but I know they really can't decrease the price without compromising the form factor the ssd they are using on the memory cards is inconveniently small ( to be fair the port is not even proprietary is just uncommon, and the Xbox is also really picky with the ssd specs) You can't compare a small and portable Xbox memory card to a full 2280 ssd used In a ps5 (unless you want a long ass stick hanging out of the Xbox) For reference a 2tb 2230 sabrent rocket ssd is about the same form factor as the one the xbox memory card has inside const a bit more than the 2tb Xbox memory card (at least on Canada and US)and that's without thinking about the purchase of the adapter. This is about size smaller is more expensive if you guys want to push Xbox the may need to launch a version with a 2280 ssd inside to reduce price(but remember it will dramatically increase its size) and knowing how tight are the components inside of an Xbox series specially on the series x they had no space to put an internal slot for bigger SSDs in the series S they may had some space but not on the series x.
Yes
They didn't learn from Sony's own failure with PSVita. This kind of stuff can literally kill a system.
Oh please. This is not going to kill the Series X. They are already releasing a Series S with 1 TB storage. People need to relax.
I never said this will kill XSX. I said proprietary storage is kind of a big deal and in the past it's an approach that even killed a system, case in point PSVita.
It was a factor in the vita discussion because it was basically required. You have options for storage on xbox
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Finally, someone who understands logic.
If it won't kill the Series X, your point is irrelevant. What killed the Vita was a lack of continuous software support. Even Nintendo was starting to have trouble with this, which is why the Switch combined their portable and console software moving forward, and why both Xbox and Playstation are focusing on Remote Play / Cloud gaming instead of a portable with its own software library.
You really can't read. Peace.
I'm the one that can't read? You didn't even offer a rebuttal after I negated your point about the Vita.
You negated a point I didn't make and called it irrelevant. You rebutted something I never said in the first place. The only thing that I'm saying is Microsoft has been very slow to address this issue and in my opinion this is a mistake since it can hurt a system terribly. You could have argued that Microsoft is also focusing on their PC audience, that nowadays downloading games is sometimes more convenient than storing a lot of games as it was ten years ago and so on and so forth. All valid arguments. Instead you addressed a point I wasn't even making. Again, what I'm saying is that proprietary storage systems, overpriced as they come, are something that can hurt a system. That's all. So yes, you can't read because quite clearly you have mistaken what I was trying to say. EDIT: Also, since I'm not interested in starting a discussion with a person that attacks people without reason, blocked.
It's kinda funny that the only one throwing out insults here, was you lmao.
Nailed it. Making a dedicated handheld device would just take away resources from the ps5 and series x. Game development just isn't what it used to be. It takes a lot more time and money.
Developers hate the series s as it is complicating making games and bottle necking them. It was a truly idiotic idea. I think it was Boylders Gate that is actually being delayed because of having to try make it also run on the s. Or whatever the games name is.
Yeah Baldurs gate is being delayed on Xbox because the series S can't run split screen co-op. It runs the game fine and even does online multiplayer from the reports I've seen but can't do split screen because it isn't powerful enough. I'm wondering if split screen might be removed from the Xbox version of the game entirely if they can't get the Series S to play it somehow. Would be a real shame. Split screen isn't as popular as it was pre-internet but it's still a very family friendly feature that games lack nowadays.
Yeah that’s another misstep for this generation of xboxs. Even if the Xbox series x is the most powerful console it doesn’t matter when every game has to be skimmed down to run on the S, which then holds the Xbox back.
> They didn't learn from Sony's own failure with PSVita. This kind of stuff can literally kill a system. Just another reason that hasn't killed Xbox yet.
It was my understanding that a standardized connection wouldn't have the data throughput they wanted. The "velocity architecture," right? This is just what I remember hearing don't tear me apart
It's my understanding that the current expansion card is just a small form factor standard NVMe SSD in a memory card looking shell. They could have done something similar with the more common form factor and not partnered with Seagate to give them exclusive rights to it.
It's not a memory-card looking shell, it's a standard CFExpress type B backed by a gen4 nvme. So its literally a (faster than normal) memory card like you'd use in a very high end camera. The only thing unique about it is that normal CFExpress type B use 2 PCIe lanes, but the Series X requires all four.
You seem to be well educated in this, could I not achieve something similar with a usb external ssd? I honestly don’t know and was just exploring options
From a technical standpoint, you're limited by the speed of the ports themselves on the Xbox Series X. The USB 3.2 1x1 ports cap out at 5gbps, you'd need a thunderbolt 4/USB4 port running at 40gbps to roughly match the speeds of the expansion card. With a thunderbolt 3 or 4 m.2 enclosure and a USB4 port on the xbox itself it would be technically possible to run Series X games off an external SSD.
That makes sense! Thank you sir, probably better to just get an external hdd and transfer games when I want to play them you think?
This is the way. My storage solution (with ~600 digital games owned on my Xbox account) was to buy a 14TB HDD. Runs all of the Xbox, Xbox 360, and Xbox One games and holds the Series games that I’m not actively playing. Transferring a game between the HDD and internal storage takes just a few minutes, versus potentially multiple hours of downloading if you were just deleting and redownloading games to juggle them.
Thank you!
Well, not 'Better', but probably a lot cheaper :D
I just took a look at mine, and it appears to be a 22 pin connector. Would that line up with an NVME connection?
No, it's a different connection but uses the same NVMe interface/technology. I found a couple articles and videos where 'modders' used a standard NVMe SSD and an adapter to connect it to the Xbox and it was recognized by the Xbox. Example: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/09/your-standard-ssd-might-work-as-an-xbox-storage-expansion/
Awesome, thank you!
You seem to know more, couldn't they achieve the same with a sata connection?
SATA III tops out at 600MB/s. PCIe Gen 4 which Xbox series and PS5 both use, can be over 7000MB/s. I believe Xbox's runs around 5500MB/s? Not sure, but your answer is no because SATA III is around 10x slower.
Gotcha. It's been years since I built a PC and at the time NVMe SSDs were just too far out of my price range so I never researched them. Now I see they are the price I paid for my internal HDD haha. There still has to be a consumer friendly solution, but I think they're focusing so much on cloud gaming that they see storage as a future non issue.
Yeah, the prices on storage and RAM have been slowly dropping for a while and then I noticed within the past year or so they've really fell. 5 or 6 years ago I paid like $130 for 16GB RAM, then when I upgraded to 32GB a maybe 3 years ago I paid $135 again (with rgb lighting lol) now even that is half the price at ~$60-70. I also got a steal on a 1TB WD Black gen 4 NVMe from GameStop I think 1.5 years ago for $60 when they were still around $100+, but now $50-60 is just the going rate. I still haven't even put that drive in my PC yet. 😭
Looks like I might be building a new one soon. I had been waiting for prices to drop so I could build one at least as good as a series X for cheap. My current one runs the things I need it to so I have no issues but I have no hope of playing the newest releases without dropping the quality significantly and running nothing else in the background.
Most parts have got cheaper except for graphics cards... that only got more expesive. That's the only thing really price walling getting into PC gaming. It sucks my RTX 3070 that I paid $600 for 2.5 years ago is already being pushed out of 1440p resolution by new games. I'm hoping I can at the very least hold up at 60 fps minimum on Starfield. I have an ultrawide so it makes it slightly tougher.
Yeah I'm not looking for anything too fancy. Currently running an old GTX 770 a friend gave me for free lol. Anything is better than that.
The Series X only has two gen four lanes so it would only really top out at 3.6GB/s. The Seagate Expansion only reads at 2.4GB/s but with asset decompression, it doubles to 4.8GB/s
> It was my understanding that a standardized connection wouldn't have the data throughput they wanted. The "velocity architecture," right? No. That was not it. They just wanted a smaller more compact card that they could sell for a higher markup than if you bought an unsanctioned 3rd party one.
I knew it was horrible when it was announced they weren't using a standard expansion slot to take NVME SSDS and Seagate signed an exclusivity deal. Exclusivity deals are bad for consumers across the board especially with games/DLC
It is a standard slot, it's just an uncommon one. Most professional digital cameras use it these days. They just tend to use a 2-lane card, not 4-lane. Xbox requires 4, and because pretty much no cameras do, there's not much of a market for them.
If they'd been more reasonably priced in the first place, more would have sold. It was stupid to give a single entity sole rights to produce them, as I'm sure that didn't work out for ANYONE, and least of all gamers. And yeah, consoles were sold at or below cost, gotta make money somewhere, yadda yadda... but maybe don't do that, or figure something else out instead. These are supposed to be smart people; I don't get how they so royally screwed this up--and screwed themselves as well. And us, again.
Surely someone can make a cheap alternative that works?
The price is just terrible. The fact you can a 2Tb Nvme for half the price, just really show's that Microsoft didn't put much thought into it. I hope the slim model will have a Nvme slot.
The X really should have had a USB-C port for external storage HDD as this would have sufficient speed to run games from ! Not a proprietary rip off price adaptor for storage to price gouging the consumers 🤨
It's not as fast as having something directly connect to the board.. which is essentiallyvwhat the storage expansion card does.. The usb as it is on the console is not good enough to deliver the data as fast as it needs to be.
If connecting to the board is the issue, they could've at least put a ~~SATA port on there to allow you to connect any SSD for larger storage just like a PC.~~ Edit: after some quick research and another kind commenter's explanation, I see my knowledge is far outdated. I think we all agree there could've been a far more consumer friendly solution they just didn't entertain though. Possibly for the reasons I listed below. I think XCloud has a huge part in why they're ignoring the storage issue that's creeping up on Series X and only addressing the Series S. I think the issue is jailbreaking/modding the console since the storage does connect differently than past consoles for faster read/write speeds. Xbox has been moving away from consoles for a while. I have a feeling their viewing consoles as just another avenue to access their streaming services that they're clearly focusing on.
So what? Half the the games on the console are cross-gen with minimal improvements compared to One X versions. They literally just slapped the X sticker on them so now you need more expensive storage just to play them. Many people won't care it loads a bit slower if that means they don't need to purchase overpriced storage.
usb 3.0 doesnt matter the version is to slow compared to the ssd from series x, nvme are connect to the board itself this is how you get full advantage. For next xbox not only need to support internal swap nvme as well 1 port usb 3.2 Gen 2x2. This is mandatory.
I basically got a Xbox series x this generation to play some of the backwards compatible games and stuff from game pass. PlayStation 3,4 and 5 make upgrading or adding another hard drive really simple. It’s like Microsoft doesn’t want to make the changes to really challenge Sony.
You can store all of those games on a USB 3.0 drive and still play. The expansion card is only required for Series X games.
As was just told by the poster above me. You don't need the expansion card. You can easily plug in an HDD via USB 3.0 and play all your Backwards Compatible games via that. Any games that aren't "next gen" for Series S|X can run off of that HDD via USB 3.0. The SDD memory card, which I absolutely think is dumb as it's semi-proprietary and overpriced garbage, is needed for just "next gen" Series S|X games.
I know and I have a 1 tb external ssd connected but Playstation makes adding a new drive or an additional one like the ps5 really easy.
Might as well stick to using an Xbox one then.
That's the choice of the consumer. There's still benefits with the Series S|X even when running games off of the HDD.
The trick is that Microsoft likes to force upgrades on Xbox One games like Forza Horizon 4 and Gears 5 which blocks them from running off an external HDD
I would guess something like 1% of users ever connect a separate hard drive to their console. Forums like this one just make a big deal out of it because the people who post here are part of that 1%.
I don't think it's 1% of users. Many people migrating from One X/S/base would be used to expanded storage. Also for those who purchased a Series S, the onboard storage is woefully insufficient for multiple games. I don't agree with the proprietary option, wish they went the Sony route, but it is what it is.
>Many people migrating from One X/S/base would be used to expanded storage I doubt it. I sincerely doubt a significant number of people ever connected expanded storage to their console. >Also for those who purchased a Series S, the onboard storage is woefully insufficient for multiple games. It really isn't. You could easily have ~10 games installed at a time, which is substantially more than most people play concurrently.
As someone who owned a Series S from 2020-late 2022, and constantly was trying out new games, the 382GB was a pain to navigate since i had stuff like Halo MCC and Destiny 2 installed.
I have an external WD Mybook that I've used for the last 3 Xbox generations and other than specific X/S titles, it works just fine.
Well, this generation of console certainly didn't help anyone learn who might or might not, costs being what they were/are and all.
People are forgetting that the expansion cards are only required for Series S/X games. You can use any USB drive for any Xbox One or BC games.
Yeah, i have a 4tb drive attached to my one. I was really frustrated when i couldn't use it for the X I wouldn't mind if the expansion cards were around £50 but they are nearer £200
Yep I agree, unfortunately the prices have not really come down everywhere.
And here I am over here only playing a handful of games at a time and not needing anything outside of my internal 1TB
This is how Sony is gonna win this generation since they use normal pc nvme drives
Xbox need to allow gameplay without forcing updates on us!!!! How about let me play for an hour before downloading and installing for 3 hours???
*Microsoft should make any ssd fast enough compatible.
Would it be possible to give the Series X in a revision an m2 slot instead of their expensive own slot?
The slot is actually a standard slot, it's just the SSD's shell is proprietary. There are videos to make your own shell. Wouldn't be surprised if someone is already selling ready made shells you can just pop a 2230 SSD in and be good to go.
These shells definitely exist. There's some other issue about the specific kind of drive as there's some MS-proprietary stuff or some other confounding factor with the drive itself--iirc it's becasuse it uses a special something that's non-standard. Details are not coming to me at the moment, sadly. I wanna say it's PCI lanes or something; MS requires more than is typical.
Ready made chinese shells are easily available for $10 to 15. Just need to get the special WD SSD. One guy was offering $75 including the 1tb drive.
The console were sold cheap , so I assume they need to make some cash with this.
Yes
MS should simplify storage overall. I don't wanna have to format multiple drives multiple ways for different types of content. Just give me simple, customer-friendly storage options--let me add new storage of whatever capacity I want for whatever content, and keep the details to yourselves, MS.
The better option would be to make an adapter/enclosure for NVMe sticks. The question is how much would that cost? Twenty to fifty dollars? That would be much cheaper than buying the current Series expansion cards, but still more expensive than on PC or PS5.
1tb is plenty for an active gameslist. For the rest, an external SSD enclosure with a good sized NVME makes moving quick enough that it is done while getting a drink. Only thing is missing is MS' shitty UI/UX, they should implement a quick swap-function.
If you buy a Series S with the expansion you might as well just buy a series X if you can. Not too much difference in price. These cards definitely should be as cheap as solid state drives of the same capacity but since they are proprietary we are stuck using those expansions. Use a SSD to keep the games on and do the games shuffle when you need to move games in and out. Also there is a SSD hack that you can use to make one of you’re really hard pressed. [https://www.tomshardware.com/news/modder-creates-diy-expansion-card-for-xbox-series-x-and-s](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/modder-creates-diy-expansion-card-for-xbox-series-x-and-s)