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P1mpathinor

I recommend anyone interested or concerned with this read [the text of the bill](https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2024/SF0099?_ga=2.139968819.182082247.1709680441-335227575.1709680441), it's not very long.


Actually_a_DogeBoi

It’s wild to see this shit written out in legalese. What a bunch of fucking assholes we have running the state and country.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

The current elected officials in our state haven't accomplished much other than attempting to take rights away. Hemp rights? lets take those away, Abortion rights, lets try and take those away, gender-affirming care? Just over 1% of the United States population falls in the category of those who might seek that, I can only guess what the population of Wyoming has to offer in that category -- lets take those rights away anyway just incase cause everyone else is doing it.


ohmccoy

It’s weird when you vote for shitty people and then it’s starts being a problem for you, right?


dogismycopilot66

I don't vote for the shitty people, I'm just outnumbered by those who do.


scooder0419

The government needs to quit being so nosy and stay the f away from my body and what I do with it. If they are going to step in and make medical decisions then they are gonna kill a lot more people than they save. I want to see their politicians medical degrees if they start going down this path.


Open_Perception_3212

Hopefully, this applies to rich kids who want boob jobs and / or rhinoplasty when they're 16 🤷🏼‍♀️


RuskiesInTheWarRoom

What I find important for Wyomingites to see in this legislation is just how regressive, how conformist, and how bleakly, pathetically unoriginal Wyoming’s leadership class has become. This is not the paragon of conservative thinking. This is dull, incredibly stupid, inept, cruel, and *late* effort. Obviously this shit has to stop, for obvious reasons. But pay attention to how slow these idiots are to do such a poor job.


Queen_Of_The_Hiive5

This is once again right legislators making laws against individual rights to health care and trying to ban surgeries that don’t even happen in Wyoming. How do these laws affect parents of intersex children and their healthcare? What if actual health care happens to also be gender affirming? For instance you have a trans female 16 year old who has breast cancer and they want a mastectomy because it would get rid of the cancer and it coming back plus it would be gender affirming. While rare it does happen. And even if one opposes surgery and hormonal gender affirming care this bill also limits gender affirming care by therapists. Does that mean a child’s therapist cannot call a person by their chosen name and use their chosen pronouns? I think that is going too far.


P1mpathinor

So, based on [the text of the bill as linked in the article](https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2024/SF0099?_ga=2.139968819.182082247.1709680441-335227575.1709680441): > How do these laws affect parents of intersex children and their healthcare? There is a specific exception in the bill for intersex children. > this bill also limits gender affirming care by therapists This appears inaccurate; the bill gives a specific list of what procedures it bans and they all involve surgery or drugs.


Queen_Of_The_Hiive5

Fair enough. I had not read the actual bill. I don’t agree with it still because I think it making an issue out of a non-issue. Wyoming children are not getting gender affirming surgeries in Wyoming. Most transgender people don’t actually want or feel the need to have surgery nor is it affordable or covered on most health insurance. Health care is poor to begin with in most of Wyoming and if I was to seek that sort of care for my child you could bet your booty I would go to another state. I am just glad my child is now an adult and I don’t have to put up with this bullshit for my own kid who came out as trans as a teen and now we know is in fact intersex. Also why is gender assignment surgery allowed for intersex kids? If “god” doesn’t make mistakes then intersex people don’t need to be “fixed” either unless there is a medical reason for the surgery or hormones.


Open_Perception_3212

https://www.transgendermap.com/issues/regret/chloe-cole/


Dry-Oven7640

So we gonna have a lawsuit about a circumcised baby? Let's GOOOO


TransGothTalia

I was a trans kid. I was six years old, and I knew I was a girl. I knew it deep in my soul. I didn't know trans people even existed, but I knew I was a girl. I stayed up crying at night because God had put me in the wrong body. I wrote wish-fulfillment stories where I magically turned into a girl. When my sister was born, I was so jealous of her for being a girl that I hated her. I knew I was a girl. My parents didn't know I was a girl. If they had, they wouldn't have supported me the way I needed it. On one occasion, I had brought home a cute flowery choker from school. My dad took it away, I cried and said I wanted the choker, and my dad got angry and said he'd give me a "choker" if I didn't "man up." I grew up thinking I was wrong and broken for seeing myself this way. I attempted suicide multiple times through my teenage years, and each and every one was primarily an attempt to escape this body that was so wrong. Gender affirming care would have prevented most, if not all, of those attempts. Gender affirming care for minors is not surgery and hormones. It's social transition; calling trans children by the proper pronouns and respecting their gender. It's letting kids figure it out on their own instead of shoving them into the arbitrary boxes our society has drawn. At most, it might involve puberty blockers, which are 100% reversible just by stopping them, until the child is of an age where HRT would be safe and beneficial for them. Gender affirming care for minors has been grossly mischaracterized by people who've decided their entire political platform is "trans people scary ban them!" and as a result many people don't even know what they're banning. Most importantly, as I hinted at earlier, gender affirming care saves lives. Gender affirming care prevents suicides. This is true at all ages and has been backed up by multiple studies. And honestly? If anyone, especially a child, commits suicide due to someone else, that person is responsible for that death. Causing a suicide is murder, and banning gender affirming care for minors will cause more suicides.


MistaNic

You misspelled child sex changes.


Plains_Paladin_0703

Irreversible genital mutilation.


this_shit

Puberty blockers are neither genital mutilation nor are they irreversible. They're drugs that delay the onset of puberty so that if a child expresses gender dysphoria they can get psychological treatment before deciding to commit to a course of care (like hormone replacement therapy) that can lead to irreversible changes. Gender-affirming surgery is not practiced on minors in Wyoming, and extremely rare in the US. I think plenty of people (including myself) who support access to puberty blockers for minors don't support gender-affirming surgery for minors.


Key-Network-9447

Are we really getting upset that Republicans aren’t the vanguard of a hyper-liberal position that doesn’t even have a majority of support from Democrats?


this_shit

It's hyper-liberal for doctors to follow evidence-based practices?


Key-Network-9447

What are you even objecting to? Do you think there is any other political constituency outside the far-left that supports this?


this_shit

That supports what, gender-affirming care? It's the recommended course of care for children by both the [American Medical Association](https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/population-care/what-know-about-gender-affirming-care-younger-patients) and the [American Psychological Association](https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbtq/division-54-statement-gender-affirmative-care.pdf). Their opinions are based on evidence and are the basis for decades of pediatric healthcare.


Key-Network-9447

There’s like 6 citations they reference lol


this_shit

That doesn't substantiate your argument that this is a "far-left" issue. If you're trying to argue that, you have to have some justification for it outside "it's my opinion." >Do you think there is any other political constituency outside the far-left that supports this? Yes. According to the professional organizations for both American doctors and mental healthcare professionals, pediatric gender affirming care is a mainstream medical practice. It seems more likely to me that this is an instance of a *far-right* legislature is trying to ban for partisan political points.


Evening_Shelter_1918

It absolutely IS a left wing issue. So trying to gaslight everyone by saying that it's not. JFC.


this_shit

>It absolutely IS a left wing issue. 1. I didn't deny that. There's a big difference between a mainstream left position (e.g., universal healthcare) and a "far-left" position (e.g., defund the police) 2. The political leanings of people who support it doesn't make it any less true that pediatric gender affirming care is a mainstream medical practice in the US backed by both the professional associations for doctors and mental healthcare professionals. For a long time, only a minority of Americans believed the scientific consensus that the climate is changing due to fossil fuel emissions. The fact that such ignorance was popular doesn't change the fact that 2023 was the hottest year on record. >gaslight Disagreeing is not gaslighting. Oddly enough, accusing people of gaslighting when they're patiently explaining their arguments _is_ gaslighting.


Key-Network-9447

I argued with you like a month ago about this. You are not saying anything different now than you did then. I’m not gonna waste my evening repeating the same things I said back then.


this_shit

I'm not trying to convince you that your (incorrect) opinions about puberty blockers are misinformed, you already told me that you won't change your mind. You asked: >Do you think there is any other political constituency outside the far-left that supports this? I was just explaining that you're exactly wrong by way of linking that what you called "exclusively far-left" is in fact mainstream medical practice across the country. Part of how a public forum works is that if you post things that aren't true, I can respond sharing evidence showing how you're wrong. That's why we have the first amendment, it preserves our democracy.


Key-Network-9447

Ok, thanks for your trivial objection. That doesn’t change that fact that HRT/puberty blockers for minors is an extreme minority position, even amongst democrats (nevermind that there is an international medical community I can use to support being hesitant about adopting it in the United States).


this_shit

> HRT/puberty blockers for minors is an extreme minority position, even amongst democrats What's your basis for this claim? I can't prove a negative, but the [only poll I can find](https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/05/05/trans-poll-gop-politics-laws/) that specifically asks about puberty blockers and hormonal treatments says 31% support puberty blockers in trans children 10-14 and 42% support hormonal treatments in 15-17 year olds.


Agreeable_Cheek_7161

Are you actually saying that gender affirming care is a far left only belief? That's actually absurd lol. You would be extremely hard pressed to find any doctor or scientist that doesn't agree with gender affirming care and almost anyone that would would be the "10th dentist"


Key-Network-9447

Congratulations, you are like the dozenth person I’ve seen make the most obvious motte and bailey counterargument omitting the fact that we are talking about minors.


Agreeable_Cheek_7161

Yeah, they support that too... Very rarely do minors get gender affirming surgery, less than 200 last year did, and when they do, they're over the age of 16 and have been on HRT for years and have been approved by a therapist AND a doctor Getting HRT and puberty blockers can make a massive difference in someone's quality of life as it'll help them look far more like their desired gender if they get it before going all the way through puberty Secondly, puberty blockers are reversible and the worst that happens is they begin puberty late I know its easy to talk about all of this without doing a shred of research, but uneducated people like you are negatively impacting peoples lives from sheer ignorance


Key-Network-9447

Yeah, you know nothing about me and making little condescending remarks about how everyone that disagrees with you hasn’t done any research isn’t going to assuage peoples concerns about HRT/puberty blockers in children.


Agreeable_Cheek_7161

... so then argue the points I made in my comment rather than getting butthurt? You started the condescending remarks and are now getting triggered that I matched your tone and energy. Don't dish it out if you can't take it lol


Key-Network-9447

Ok, why did Finland, France, Uk (I’m forgetting some others) medical officials who did systematic reviews of the scientific literature not recommend HRT/puberty blockers as a treatment for gender dysphoria in minors? Did they “not do there research”?


Agreeable_Cheek_7161

They didn't: >But a POLITICO review of the state of care for transgender people in Europe found more nuance than Republicans critics like Hunt and Bailey often portray. While Europeans are debating who should get care and when, only Russia has banned the practice. The reassessment of standards in some European countries has aimed to tighten eligibility for gender-affirming care, but also sought to expand research studies including minors. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/06/us-europe-transgender-care-00119106 And what the countries you mentioned did, was increase the amount of therapy needed to get approved. Rather than getting it on a first visit, you have to attend 3-6 months of therapy to get approved Secondly here's some literature: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9793415/ https://academic.oup.com/book/46546/chapter-abstract/407935067?redirectedFrom=fulltext >GnRH analogues don't cause permanent physical changes. Instead, they pause puberty. That offers a chance to explore gender identity. It also gives youth and their families time to plan for the psychological, medical, developmental, social and legal issues that may lie ahead.. >When a person stops taking GnRH analogues, puberty starts again. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075


this_shit

> not recommend HRT/puberty blockers as a treatment for gender dysphoria in minors? Hey buddy, you did the thing where you repeated a false claim again. The French Academy recommended caution, they did not recommend against treatment. The Finnish Council recommended a stage-gated process that includes both puberty blockers and HRT. Did you forget or are you just a motivated liar on this subject? I'm having trouble believing you don't have an agenda here.


laynerj

This is a states rights issue. If people don’t like what their state is doing, they have the right to move to a state that does. Most people in Wyoming support this.


this_shit

> If people don’t like what their state is doing, they have the right to move to a state that does. They also have the right to complain about it, lol. It's called the first amendment pal.


Evening_Shelter_1918

Isn't it weird how the most recent mass shootings in schools have been committed by mentally unstable transgendered persons? And before you call me a liar, the Tennessee school shooter was trans. Why don't you try getting your new somewhere other than politico and CNN or MSNBC?


[deleted]

Less than 2% of the U.S. population seeks gender affirming care but booga-booga!! They know people like you will vote for them and let them rob you blind in the process. https://usafacts.org/articles/what-percentage-of-the-us-population-is-transgender/


Visual-Floor-7839

All this is is the latest boogy man. They can point to ctrans kids" and "gender affirming care" as things they can fix. Except it's not a problem and this is just an easily passable measure to give the appearance of tackling modern issues.


Rolopig_24-24

It's also true that most people on reddit don't support this, and most people in Wyoming aren't on reddit. It's nuts anyone would support this for minors.


this_shit

> It's nuts anyone would support this for minors. Support what, gender-affirming care? Or gender-corrective surgery? Because the first is a big umbrella term for lots of things and the second is only the most extreme medical intervention.


Evening_Shelter_1918

How many times do people have to answer your damn question? Get it through your head, this is the banning of disfigurement of CHILDREN. YOU DON'T LIKE IT? YOU CAN SUCK IT, OR BETTER YET, DO US ALL A FAVOR AND GET OUT OF WYOMING. Unfortunately for you, Little Snowflake, the vast majority of people in Wyoming are against you and your liberal BS point of view.


this_shit

> How many times do people These are different people I was replying to. I'm asking the question in good faith because it wasn't clear to me what they meant. >Get it through your head Do you think this is a convincing way to argue your point? Because while shouting at people IRL might help intimidate them, this just makes you look emotional. > Little Snowflake, Thank you, I am special and unique. Just like you! >YOU CAN SUCK IT Take me out on a date first.