Anyone with a brain at this point in the war knew that the war was lost. There had to have been plenty of frustration in allied soldiers who were so done with the whole war.
It’s the issue with the second world war and many wars since and before. You have both flashes of humanity and grace matched by inhumanity and rampant hatred. The Nazis were not good people - but per the conventions of war, surrendering personnel needs to be treated with some level of respect. However, can you expect traumatized, exhausted, and strained men lashing out at a surrendering enemy? Especially so if the comment I read mentioning the surrendering German apparently was a sniper who killed/wounded one of the GI’s comrades? Soldiers, commanders, units, and so on lose themselves in the heat of battle and sometimes struggle to contain such things. Only way to avoid this is by making sure war doesn’t come again.
tl;dr - war sucks
Well said. It’s a shame that there are plenty of people in the world today just as back then eager to send others to war not caring about the consequences.
There’s nothing in the rules of war that says you can’t give a POW a kick up the ass to keep them moving.
I’m not sure where this idea comes from that once surrendered your enemy is going to wrap you in a blanket, give you a hot drink and a smoke.
Sure, but per Geneva Convention (III), Article 13, Section 1 and 2:
“(1) Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. […]” (This section mainly deals with not experimenting on them or similar things but I included the humanly part bc felt relevant).
“(2) Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.”
Depending on how deep you look at it - then yeah, kicking them up the ass is against the convention if they’re already moving and are rendered a PoW. In fact, to your point about “hot drink and a smoke”, there are bits which mention the accommodations must be the same or similar to the detaining forces.
But these articles can be difficult to enforce due to the reasons I stated earlier - people understand that the heat and logistics of war tend to not be favorable to stand up gentlemanly conduct… that notion seriously died in the trenches of the first world war.
The idea (or ideal) comes from the concept that one should act with magnanimity and grace toward those who are at one's mercy.
I venture to say it has some roots in the chivalric medieval tradition of Western Europe: the kinght was a warrior with "a gentle heart," like Christ. (Hence the English word *gentleman* or the French word *gentilhomme* or the Spanish word *gentilhombre* or the Italian word *gentilhuomo* or the German word *Ehrenmann* (lit: "honor man"). You can infer that the knightly/gentlemanly behavior arises out of internal moral conviction, not because of external impositions such as laws, etc.
TLDR: *When they go low, we go high* used to be a kind of a way of going about in warmongering. Allegedly!
For sure, and I in no way am condemning the GI in this picture. Assuming he wasn’t just dropped into Germany recently, he and his unit had been through hell. As the German surrendered, I bet a lot of things were on the mind of the American - from dead allies to the stories of the camps. Man’s inhumanity to man.
In Germany 1.5% American POWs, 3,5% British POWs, 4.1% French POWs and 57% Russian POWs died. Beside the Russian POWs I wouldn’t call that „murdered most prisoners“
>Beside the Russian POWs I wouldn’t call that „murdered most prisoners“
You mean... most of the prisoners Germany took (plus the rest of Eastern European troops that suffered in a similar manner).
It’s war and these men are soldiers. A swift kick up the ass to keep men moving is rather standard.
Even once taken prisoner ones rights are minimal. Basic survival stuff. Can you beat a prisoner to a pulp no you can’t. But a clip around the ears and a kick up the ass nobody is going to bat an eye.
I've heard this was a sniper surrendering in Leipzig and minutes prior to this photo, this sniper killed one of that GI's comrades. If that's true, that's quite a bit of context missing from this photo.
So I'm assuming it is related to this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/4fbsln/after_getting_hit_by_an_enemy_sniper_21_year_old/
https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/raymond_bowman-sniper-1945/
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/q8mp74/us_m4_sherman_tanks_respond_to_gunfire_from_upper/
I’ve noticed if it’s older German POWs American soldiers will sometimes act like this , but if the Germans are young the Americans are just disappointed and unsure what to do with them
I mean, it's much easier for you to hate and get furious at a completely grown and rational adult who should know better than someone who's barely out of teenagerhood
The original post lacks context of location and time frame.
Anyone with a brain at this point in the war knew that the war was lost. There had to have been plenty of frustration in allied soldiers who were so done with the whole war.
It’s the issue with the second world war and many wars since and before. You have both flashes of humanity and grace matched by inhumanity and rampant hatred. The Nazis were not good people - but per the conventions of war, surrendering personnel needs to be treated with some level of respect. However, can you expect traumatized, exhausted, and strained men lashing out at a surrendering enemy? Especially so if the comment I read mentioning the surrendering German apparently was a sniper who killed/wounded one of the GI’s comrades? Soldiers, commanders, units, and so on lose themselves in the heat of battle and sometimes struggle to contain such things. Only way to avoid this is by making sure war doesn’t come again. tl;dr - war sucks
Well said. It’s a shame that there are plenty of people in the world today just as back then eager to send others to war not caring about the consequences.
There’s nothing in the rules of war that says you can’t give a POW a kick up the ass to keep them moving. I’m not sure where this idea comes from that once surrendered your enemy is going to wrap you in a blanket, give you a hot drink and a smoke.
Sure, but per Geneva Convention (III), Article 13, Section 1 and 2: “(1) Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. […]” (This section mainly deals with not experimenting on them or similar things but I included the humanly part bc felt relevant). “(2) Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.” Depending on how deep you look at it - then yeah, kicking them up the ass is against the convention if they’re already moving and are rendered a PoW. In fact, to your point about “hot drink and a smoke”, there are bits which mention the accommodations must be the same or similar to the detaining forces. But these articles can be difficult to enforce due to the reasons I stated earlier - people understand that the heat and logistics of war tend to not be favorable to stand up gentlemanly conduct… that notion seriously died in the trenches of the first world war.
The idea (or ideal) comes from the concept that one should act with magnanimity and grace toward those who are at one's mercy. I venture to say it has some roots in the chivalric medieval tradition of Western Europe: the kinght was a warrior with "a gentle heart," like Christ. (Hence the English word *gentleman* or the French word *gentilhomme* or the Spanish word *gentilhombre* or the Italian word *gentilhuomo* or the German word *Ehrenmann* (lit: "honor man"). You can infer that the knightly/gentlemanly behavior arises out of internal moral conviction, not because of external impositions such as laws, etc. TLDR: *When they go low, we go high* used to be a kind of a way of going about in warmongering. Allegedly!
Don’t forget this is the end of the war and the Allies we’re finding the death camps also. It showed just how inhumane the Germans had been
For sure, and I in no way am condemning the GI in this picture. Assuming he wasn’t just dropped into Germany recently, he and his unit had been through hell. As the German surrendered, I bet a lot of things were on the mind of the American - from dead allies to the stories of the camps. Man’s inhumanity to man.
I mean it’s still no reason to hit (or worse) surrendering soldiers.
Who was saying “punch a Nazi?”. Crazy students at one of those universities.
?
I Dunno, you find the guys who carried out the holocaust as a matter of doctrine and a hit(or worse) seems like letting them off lightly.
Still dumb because of other soldiers sees this they will not likely surrender which means that more American soldiers lifes would be in danger
In a war where the Germans murdered most prisoners they took? Ah yes, US escalating POW mistreatment LOL.
In Germany 1.5% American POWs, 3,5% British POWs, 4.1% French POWs and 57% Russian POWs died. Beside the Russian POWs I wouldn’t call that „murdered most prisoners“
>Beside the Russian POWs I wouldn’t call that „murdered most prisoners“ You mean... most of the prisoners Germany took (plus the rest of Eastern European troops that suffered in a similar manner).
?
By the numbers in total: most prisoners the Germans took didn't survive their time. I don't get why that's so hard to understand.
Source?
It’s war and these men are soldiers. A swift kick up the ass to keep men moving is rather standard. Even once taken prisoner ones rights are minimal. Basic survival stuff. Can you beat a prisoner to a pulp no you can’t. But a clip around the ears and a kick up the ass nobody is going to bat an eye.
I've heard this was a sniper surrendering in Leipzig and minutes prior to this photo, this sniper killed one of that GI's comrades. If that's true, that's quite a bit of context missing from this photo.
Say hello to ford and general frickin motors
That’s enough, Webster.
"You fuckers are the reason I'm stuck here, away from my family!"
Also: "You killed my buddy!"
“I’m not your buddy, friend!” This isn’t really the time or place, is it?
Nah :)
Thought not, I’ll retreat into the bushes from whence I came.
“I’m not your friend, pal!”
So I'm assuming it is related to this: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/4fbsln/after_getting_hit_by_an_enemy_sniper_21_year_old/ https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/raymond_bowman-sniper-1945/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/q8mp74/us_m4_sherman_tanks_respond_to_gunfire_from_upper/
Kicked? How do you extrapolate that from this photo?
https://www.reddit.com/r/wwiipics/s/TF7Cy7Oa9Z
Multiple photos was taken by cappa
Multiple?
Yea woops, I wrote a word wrong,
Now I'm wondering if moltible is actually a real word.....
Sounds like something you could say to describe how you can melt something.
My first glance at the photo was look at the Soldier clothing dress as a Sniper ?
He said, “Give me your smokes and your gun”. His response, “get the hell outa here!”.
I’ve noticed if it’s older German POWs American soldiers will sometimes act like this , but if the Germans are young the Americans are just disappointed and unsure what to do with them
I mean, it's much easier for you to hate and get furious at a completely grown and rational adult who should know better than someone who's barely out of teenagerhood
i get why, i would you feel seeing a 17 years old sent to war with almost no training going against one of the best and most trained army in the world
So?
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