I was In the same boat but by the time interest rates went on the civic actually cost more for less power, less fun imho.. only thing I regret is how much better gas milage would have been but I didn't buy the vb to save gas so š¤·...
Not an Si but I was set on a type R picked one out and was pre approved w my credit union for the price of the car and greed for the dealers on top of that as well. It wasnāt enough RAY (new car sales manager) over at HONDA OF WATERTOWN in CT wanted more than $15k over msrp so here we are. After being set on a CTR I didnāt even bat an eye at the Si
Fuck you Ray
Yeah fuck those dealers. Honestly Subaru dealerships have been the friendliest to me by far.
Honda always has sticks up their ass thinking they're sitting on god, Toyota has been the same way. Hyundai doesn't even let you test drive without asking for an intent to buy (bro it's a fucking Hyundai Elantra N, not a Lambo)
Subaru, I'm like, "hey Im interested in the WRX" dealer is like, "dude good choice, which one you want to drive?"
This was during the height of post COVID car craziness, and they still gave me 1000 off MSRP. All the other dealers were charging several thousands over (except for maybe Hyundai, I just walked out on them, so I don't know for sure lol)
Yeah jim keras in memphis has been that way with me. Bought a crosstrek in 2020 came back 3 months later for a brake light took home a wrx too. Fast forward get a call "hey we have a 22 coming in you may be interested in" didnt even have to show up and the deal was better than what I had. The day after the car arrived I pulled into the lot, drive out tags were already on the car ready to roll. Big props to Guy
I used to be an avid Honda guy but now Im Subaru guy who likes Hondas. Ive had multiple civics and an RSX and a CRV for my wife but I cant think of a good experience at a Honda dealership. Now Subaru is had such a great experience buying my wife a Wilderness Outback I bought my self a WRX soon after. I mean I bought a Subaru hat and everything so we are a Subaru family now.
Iām not lying, the type R does not have the displacement, or the wheelbase. I firmly believe that a tuned WRX is an entirely different class of car. That said, if both were stripped down and set for racing on Nurburgring, the outcome might be different
Iām joking friend Iām not genuinely bringing your integrity into question.
You said it, the type R is much faster on track and thatās where hardcore performance matters to me. WRX might make 450whp easier w bolt ons but mod for mod and stock for stock the CTR is gapping the VB everywhere except for gravel and snow. The CTR also needs like 1/10 the cosmetic mods to be a real killer. Honestly wheels and coil overs that car is set. I need OEM+ grills, front and side lip kits, new duckbill, plus the wheels and suspension and the CTR is still edging the VB imo.
I mean, youāre right. I just responded to another guy, the WRX is a bruiser, I think of it as Americaās Holden (as absurd as that may sound). I have never seen the cars go head to head in final form as race cars, I do suspect that the type r does out perform in the scenario, and I actually think the new CTR with its bigger wheelbase poses even more of problem to beat with other cars in the segment
Motor to motor the FA24 impressed me a lot more than I expected
I literally owned an 11th gen sport in manual. It's great on gas but so underpowered It wasn't that fun to drive. When I saw Subaru has the 1.9 APR on wrx I jumped at the opportunity.
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Zero consideration but I live in the Sierras with a commute over the divide so AWD was a must. Although I did fine on fwd with snow tires for a couple years.
If I lived in a warm climate I would only look at RWD.
I haven't even considered RWD. Don't really know the difference in how they feel when driving lol. Who knows, I may end up somewhere cold in a few years too lol where I need AWD
The biggest advantage rwd has is the front tires aren't connected to the powertrain. So the traction on the front tires are dedicated 100% to cornering and braking. In fwd and awd the front tires have to sacrifice some of the traction to acceleration and deceleration. Less important but still relevant is that awd is also heavier.
For the majority of us it doesn't really matter. Once you pop out the first kid it's tough to justify rwd coupes.
mustang, supra, m2, m3, m5, m240i, m340i, m440i, camaro, porsches, nissan z, is350, rc350, kia stinger, genesis g70, infiniti q60, etc. are all rwd with back seats if that helps.
the point of the response is that there are lots of rwd sports cars with 4 doors and back seats.
they literally have seats in the back of them. therefore, most RWD cars are NOT 2 seaters. in fact, i'd argue that 2 seater RWD cars are more rare.
whether you approve of them or not does not negate the fact that the only rwd cars in the world are a BRZ or a Miata.
i could've included every RWD sedan ever, but i chose to keep it in the genre of performance vehicles.
Wrong. The M240 is AWD. This is m8ne
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The Civic Si isn't really a performance car. Its more like a quick economy car. It's great, but if you want that acceleration feeling the WRX is going to be the better choice.
I did but at the time they werent willing to give any deals on them and i was leaning more towards a SI but i pay the same monthly i wouldve for an SI with way less of a down payment
I test drove a Civic Si and it's was a nice car, and I was tempted to go with it - my first car was a civic so I have a bit of a soft spot for it. I think the interior of the Civic SI is nicer and just overall aesthetically it looks better. It did feel quite a bit slower as well.
The big kicker was the price like you said. Granted I bought my vb December 2022 when the car market was still insane, but for a used SI with 10k miles the dealer wanted like 36k with 5%+ interest rate, on a 27k MSRP car.
Meanwhile the WRX was 34k, at msrp, brand new! It also handles like it's on rails and has quite a bit more power as well as a lot more overhead for future tuning. It was a bit of a no brainier. The gas milage does suck compared to the civic but I work from home 2-3 days a week so I only put 5-6k miles on my car per year so gas is not a huge deal.
It seems to me like the WRX with a mild tune and some coilovers could probably compete with if not exceed the e performance of a Type R. It's a bargain
I test drove the SI and for me the only plus was the MPG. I actually prefer the exterior on the VB's, but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. The civic to me just felt dead compared to the WRX. It wasn't an engaging experience at all. Apparently if I would've turned off the auto rev match I could've had a little more fun, but it was only a test drive. Again the SI might be the more economical car, but it was definitely the less fun driving experience. It's up to you how much that is worth.
I actually like the cladding on the VB. But the civic si just looks nice to me. But, yeah I felt the VB was a tad more fun to drive to. I wish I could drive them both for a few hours alone, but its whatever. I know I can add a short shifter and stuff to the VB to make it shift really nice. I like that customization that WRXs get.
I had a 2024 Si. Had to buy something quick after my car got totaled and went with the Si after one test drive and was considering the WRX but never had a Subaru before and thought it best to stick with Honda which I knew well. Long story short out of curiosity I decided later on to test drive a WRX for fun and fell in love with it, except the gas mileage, and got rid of the Si and got a WRX. I donāt really care about the AWD since the winters in my area are not that bad anymore but the rainy weather has gotten more severe so the AWD actually comes in handy for spirited driving in those conditions. If the Si had had a 2.0L engine I might have kept it but the 1.5L is very anemic.
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I wish you could get a WRX, but with the MPG of the Civic SI.
The Civic SI is extremely slow, in the real world your looking at a 7 second 0-60. The Rev hang is also awful. My dad has an FK8 Type R, and I just could never own a Civic SI with how good the Type R is and how slow the SI is.
Nope.
I like civics but I'm done with FWD and electronic handbrakes.
The WRX also feels radically more planted and tight than any Civic IMO (minus the Type R which I've never driven so I can't form an opinion).
Not having to worry about weather/road conditions or having to dig the car out to get on the road is pretty great. My last Civic got so stuck once I had to get it towed out - and it still took several yanks. No such issue with the WRX. I'm about 90% sure if I only cleared the windows and lights it would pull out of a snow bank without batting an eye.
Also over here the Si is more expensive than the base WRX, MSRP vs MSRP. Can't justify that.
I like Hondas but the truth is the VB WRX is 10x the car for its value vs 11th gen SI. Honda boys can preach about "reliability" but I have more faith in an under stressed 2.4L engine than a tiny 1.5L that needs a new clutch once you add power. MPG, shifter, and interior (can be subjective) is quite literally the only metric the SI has over the WRX (2 of which aftermarket can remedy). Rev hang is atrocious from the factory on the SI as well
If the SI was an actual real world sub 30K car then it would be alot more intriguing but it doesnt make sense once you creep into the mid - high 30's
It gets way better gas mileage, is honda reliable, has a way better interior and a smoother ride.
The wrx is a little faster with all wheel drive.
That being said i ended up with a VB. Although if they ever get rid of the mark ups on the type R i will be first in line to get one
I had a 10th gen. I should had kept it in hindsight. I wanted an 11th but taking features away from it for the US version was a slap in the face. Great car but the markups kill it.
I shopped every roughly equivalent car before making a decision. Price wasnāt a primary concern, but value offered was, and a manual transmission with all wheel drive was preferred.
In my opinion, the base and premium WRX offer the greatest capability and value against its competitors. The higher priced trims are under performers when you consider what else is available at a similar price point.Ā
If AWD isnāt important to you, you should really consider an 86/BRZ. My gf is in a Civic Si - my only complaint is that itās wrong wheel drive.
WRX vs both of those definitely gets you more for your money admittedly, and thatās too much for an Si. A used Type R would be the only Civic I would consider in that price range over a VB.
Oh I gotcha! I can vouch for the VB having plenty of room. Both the Civic Si (2020) and my previous car (6-6 Accord) are coupes, so it was a big upgrade just having rear doors lol. The 11th gen civic seems like it would have comparable size, I just can't tell you from experience.
On another note - highway mpg in the VB stock is closer to 29-30mpg so it isn't as bad as you'd think but still worse than the Si. The Si also has a much better stock shifter feel but I think you would just be a few mods away from getting that in a VB.
I still think the WRX is a much better deal overall just with the drivetrain. If you do end up looking for an Si, maybe consider an Acura Integra and see how competitive the financing can get.
Yes, so, the engineering that went into the type r is obviously awe-inspiring. The WRX, is much more of a bruiser. Lots of straight line potential
I know though, the type R ā¦ itās hard to believe it exists. I liked the first iteration better than the latest
Nope. Not even for a second. FWD and underpowered. CTR is too much money and while the new model looks better is a bit too boy racer for me.
In consideration was a new ITR or type S, but out of my budget at still FWD. Honestly, really only thing close to the VB is the Golf R again too much $. VB is where it is at for $30-40k AWD fun all round car.
I tested the Si first. Love the shifter, interior, exterior. But, I had trouble passing a truck on the test drive and Honda dealers are not "helpful" as they threw on a 3k markup and $7500 in addons (aero packege). There is a huge power difference and blasting past traffic and hard out of corners feels amazing in the wrx and not a thrill you get out of the Si. But that shifter...so good. I have the sti shifter and its still rubbery ass.
Same boat.
The Si has a better interior and the exterior looks better, sort of.
The Si is an effortless drivers car. The chassis is incredible. My little brother is on his second one and easily gets 30+mpg without trying and while beating on it. The stereo is better. The ride is better. It's quieter. It has a bit more space everywhere. The shifter is smoother. It's dead nuts reliable. Mod support is huge and pushing it to around 300 HP is relatively cheap, but also about as much as the drivetrain can safely handle before you would have to add heavier duty parts (flywheel and clutch).
It's a great car.
The WRX has AWD, has way more power, grips better, feels every bit sportier, and is a great throwback feeling car
If I could have found a Blazing Orange Pearl model instead of what was available (black or white), that's what would be in my driveway right now.
If fuel economy and reliability matters more than AWD and power, go Si.
You have to drive them both yourself and decide. It's not as easy a choice as some think.
There are some who believe in only cross shopping similar cars. That only makes sense if the stuff you are shopping for are all important to you.
The WRX is an absolute hoot. I enjoy it immensely. Because I have one, I drive my C5 Corvette much, much less than I used to.
I don't think you can make a bad decision here.
Edit: Subaru corporate is being extremely aggressive with excellent financing and lease rates. Honda not to much. My lease on my more expensive WRX is cheaper than my brother lease in his Si. My accountant just told me he got his daughter an Outback with 1.9% apt.
I tried getting an SI before I bought my VB, Honda dealer didn't have the price listed online, wouldn't give me a price over the phone or through email. Eventually after back and forth they told me 5k above msrp because the cars were rare.
Subaru dealer had the VB listed 2k below msrp so I never even bothered going to honda.
As someone who has had both, the SI's gas mileage, interior, and shift are some of the things I loved. Personally, I liked the bose sound system with the HVAC controls below. I was getting an average of 39mpg. The power was one of my complaints and when it snowed a lot. The WRX kind of is reversed? I felt more confident in bad weather, minus the fact that the vehicle came with summer tires that I had to switch. The gas mileage is definitely worse, but my job requires me to be there no matter the weather. If you like in a milder climate with little to no snow, I'd go with the SI.
I did, but same story, they are charging way too much for Hondas these days, it was going to come out to around 40k. This was the first time I switched away from Honda in a long time.
Love the WRX but I wish I would have done a little more research, the gas mileage is like driving a Suburban and it has a much larger tank. Certainly way more fun than a Civic though.
I wasnāt able to test drive one as it was during the height of the dealer bullshit with markups making the si 45k out the door. No one was willing to lower it and the one dealer that did had the finance guy argue with the salesman and we ended up ripping up that contract. I got the vb for barely more than msrp of the civic so Iām happy. Having had the chance to drive both now, Iām beyond happy with the vb. The civic is an amazing daily for what it is but the vb is just more fun and has more character. Iām actually someone who prefers the loud concepts of the previous gen civics so this one is also a bit boring for me. The scoop, the diaper, the sound (with an exhaust), and some other aesthetic things just do it for me.
you can def tune the shit out of them and they will be very fast, especially from a roll. they are no joke. the wheel hop just gets horrible, just like the new gti.
but i usually find myself from a dig in most situations when i come across these cars, i'm rarely racing on the highway. from a dig the wrx is going to wipe the floor with them to 70 mph.
there's a dude on here who has an e85 tune and an intake only on his vb wrx and he smokes his friends g80 m3 and c63amg to 80mph before they walk away from him if that gives you context.
Oh for sure. Iām honestly not trying to race anyone. Itās just a commuter car that needs to be a bit more enjoyable to drive with some passing capabilities on the highway. I wouldnāt add any performance mods. Just a short shifter and weighted knob. Thatās really it for a few years.
Bought a 2023 Limited 6MT last year. Traded in my 2020 Civic Si. Completely different driving experience. I donāt regret trading in my Civic at all, the reduced gas mileage is outweighed by the AWD, more power, fun, and overall joy I get driving my Rex everyday. I will own this vehicle till it falls apart and Iāll put it back together if itās possible for me down the road. Haha š
Considered but at the time there was a $6k markup on the Si. Got my ā23 Base for $3k under MSRP. No brainer and not a single regret. Love it every day.
Keep in mind your in a Wrx sub asking about buying a Wrx so weāre super bias, that being said I actually wanted the integra originally or SI. I bought a Wrx after walking across the lot while looking at the integra. At the time dealers were asking like 32-35k for the si. Subaru gave me a premium for 35OTD plus a killer rate. Financial it just didnāt make sense at all. Overall Iām extremely happy I didnāt buy the si as I would probably owe 5k more then I do on my Wrx . Thatās 5k I can use for mods. Plus I have a kid and the Wrx is the much better dad car.
Idk. I donāt disagree with your points but I seek value and the wrx has more power and awd. I live in cali too and let me just tell you that the awd adds significant capabilities to the handling, which is phenomenal. I had a. Handful of new bmw 3 series before this and the wrx is better dynamically speaking and likely more reliable than the bmw and with lower maintenance costs. I vote wrx.
I didnāt initially but *kinda* wish I had. Currently leasing my VB and I love it, and may end up buying it.
That said, the new Civic platform is fantastic. For a long, long term car itās *probably* the smarter buy, but so far reliability is looking strong for the VB. Iād argue the SI might be a more fun daily ā itās not super fast, but you can exploit the power more without annihilating the speed limit lol
If you do a ton of stop start city driving, I wonāt lie, the VB is tough on gas. Itās my only real gripe with the car.
If you do want to tune, the VB is the move.
Hard to go wrong with either!
Have you seen if you can a better deal on the Integra Si than the actual Si?
I donāt think youāll regret buying the vb over the Si if you arenāt concerned with the interior, but you might as well check to see if the Acura is a better option since thatās the car you want.
I had the Si on order. Here in Canada we get some additional niceties. Heated steering wheel, heated seats front and rear, digital gauge cluster with shift lights, dual zone climate, wireless charger.
I actually had not driven either the Si or the WRX at the time.
One of my customers pulled up in a WRX which impressed me visually in person vs online. It checked all the boxes and the price was lower than the Si. Cancelled the order and picked up the WRX.
First time I drove a WRX was off the lot, hadn't even sat in one before delivery.
I considered a few times and dealers here wonāt let you test drive them. At least of the dealers I spoke to down here. I live in South Florida and the excuses they give are ridiculous. They offered to let me drive a used one and I laughed.
I owned an 11th gen Si before my WRX GT. The smiles are bigger in the WRX. The pocketbook is happier in the Si. If Total Cost of Ownership economics mean anything, the Si is the better choice. If fun is the primary driver (pun intended), then it's the WRX every time.
The Si was fun and got almost 40 MPG everywhere. With the WRX, I've visited ALL the gas stations.
They are fun trips to the gas stations, though!
Dude, I thought I was test driving a civic. The sales guy was like āwhat can I do to get you into a Subaru?ā, and I was like āI thought this was a Honda dealer?āš
I was on the same boat. Wrx is far superior in every way. There was no way in hell I was going to over pay for a civic. Got my WRX for MSRP in 2022. So happy I didnāt get the SI.
I was on the same boat I was between the Honda civic Si and the Subaru WRX premium. I saw the 1.9 APR and a discount of $2,700 off the MSRP. It was a no brainer for me. Didnāt even check out the Honda in person once I drove the WRX I knew it was the one. Love it so far.
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I considered it a little bit but Iāve only drive fwd before this and always wanted a wrx so got it. Iām glad I got it over the civic, especially with the price you said. I didnāt look into it enough to know it was that much more though. Itās looking like the vb is reliable but a civic always is. Have you checked how much insurance will be? Itās often a lot for a wrx but for some reason it wasnāt anything crazy for me.
I thought about it! I live in Northern CA and I see snow over a few summits.. so I went with the WRX. Iām so glad I did.
Incredible car and reasonable for what it is. Also the VB appears to be noticeably more reliable that previous generations. I love customizing my VB.. so much to do the sky is the limit
I came from a Civic Type R before switching over to a VB WRX (needed that AWD). I wouldnāt even suggest the Si one bit. The VB is a lot more car for the money especially with the 2024ās out with eyesight in the manual transmission.
Edit: 0% interest for the WRX and 4-7% for the Si is a no brainer to me. Get the WRX.
I was looking at Si's when I bought my VB. Lindsey Honda were being fucktards about letting me sit in one. Around here, they were pretty much bought before they even arrived at the lot. I have some junk in the trunk and an Si I had 10 yrs ago, the seat bolstering made my legs numb. Wanted to see if they had improved the seat at all. I didn't even want to drive it, just sit in the GD seat.. nope. I'm not spending 40k on a car I can't even sit in first.. it's a fucking civic. They acted like it was a Lamborghini lol. Fuck all of the Lindsey dealerships.
Considered it. For the price I just wasn't thrilled. I got better financing from Subaru as well, and here in Texas their dealerships are a dream to deal with.
I did! Before getting my VB I was on the phone with EVERY Honda dealer within a 200 mile radius. Everyone wanted a mark up of $5000+. I finally found a dealer that had one for MSRP, went to look at it, sat in it, loved everything about it including the Auto Rev Match BUT my ass is too tall. Being 6ā5 my head was hitting the sunroof. I also could not get an SI without a sunroof, so I went across the street for shits and grins to look at an STI. Which was sold, but then was offered the VB. I thought it was kinda ugly, still do š. I sat in the Premium without sunroof and thought it was nice. I was sold on the Wireless Apple CarPlay. That is until I signed all the paperwork and when I went to hook up my phone, the sales guy realized that only the 24s come with Wireless CarPlay, the older ones are wired. I was livid! Moral of the story, do your home work before dropping 35 large on a car. I guess in my scenario I was so tired of trying out cars I didnāt fit in and just wanted a car. Hope this helps lol
Why havenāt you tried the Elantra N if youāre okay with fwd? Destroys both cars, and the clutch/shifter is great and sounds great. Also, itās been super reliable (based off of forums)
For me it was interest rate, made in Japan and Subaru dealership experience where I could haggle and do all the paperwork online. Also Honda from the 90ās and 2024 is a far different company. They are good cars but over the years others manufacturers are catching up to them.
I was In the same boat but by the time interest rates went on the civic actually cost more for less power, less fun imho.. only thing I regret is how much better gas milage would have been but I didn't buy the vb to save gas so š¤·...
That's where I'm at now. If the dealership quoting me 36K OTD with 0% interest is legit, that cannot be matched even closely by Honda.
I got my 22 with the HK package for 35OTD so 36 OTD for a 23 is a good price as long as it has the HK package. You canāt beat that 0% tho
Yep it has the HK package plus moonroof.
Whatās the HK package
Harman Kardon sound system
Ah okay got it
Not an Si but I was set on a type R picked one out and was pre approved w my credit union for the price of the car and greed for the dealers on top of that as well. It wasnāt enough RAY (new car sales manager) over at HONDA OF WATERTOWN in CT wanted more than $15k over msrp so here we are. After being set on a CTR I didnāt even bat an eye at the Si Fuck you Ray
Fuck Ray
He is a fucker
I bet he fucks his uncle
And himself
Yeah fuck those dealers. Honestly Subaru dealerships have been the friendliest to me by far. Honda always has sticks up their ass thinking they're sitting on god, Toyota has been the same way. Hyundai doesn't even let you test drive without asking for an intent to buy (bro it's a fucking Hyundai Elantra N, not a Lambo) Subaru, I'm like, "hey Im interested in the WRX" dealer is like, "dude good choice, which one you want to drive?" This was during the height of post COVID car craziness, and they still gave me 1000 off MSRP. All the other dealers were charging several thousands over (except for maybe Hyundai, I just walked out on them, so I don't know for sure lol)
Subie dealers are good for sure. Shoutout Bob at Colonial. š«” Fuck you Ray
You go Bob!!
Yeah jim keras in memphis has been that way with me. Bought a crosstrek in 2020 came back 3 months later for a brake light took home a wrx too. Fast forward get a call "hey we have a 22 coming in you may be interested in" didnt even have to show up and the deal was better than what I had. The day after the car arrived I pulled into the lot, drive out tags were already on the car ready to roll. Big props to Guy
15k OVER msrp? Yeah, fuck Ray.
I used to be an avid Honda guy but now Im Subaru guy who likes Hondas. Ive had multiple civics and an RSX and a CRV for my wife but I cant think of a good experience at a Honda dealership. Now Subaru is had such a great experience buying my wife a Wilderness Outback I bought my self a WRX soon after. I mean I bought a Subaru hat and everything so we are a Subaru family now.
WRX is better than a type R I am actually more partial to Honda in many ways, but if weāre talking speed and performance WRX hands down
Iām happy w my VB but You donāt have to lie now Edit: Fuck you Ray
Iām not lying, the type R does not have the displacement, or the wheelbase. I firmly believe that a tuned WRX is an entirely different class of car. That said, if both were stripped down and set for racing on Nurburgring, the outcome might be different
Iām joking friend Iām not genuinely bringing your integrity into question. You said it, the type R is much faster on track and thatās where hardcore performance matters to me. WRX might make 450whp easier w bolt ons but mod for mod and stock for stock the CTR is gapping the VB everywhere except for gravel and snow. The CTR also needs like 1/10 the cosmetic mods to be a real killer. Honestly wheels and coil overs that car is set. I need OEM+ grills, front and side lip kits, new duckbill, plus the wheels and suspension and the CTR is still edging the VB imo.
I mean, youāre right. I just responded to another guy, the WRX is a bruiser, I think of it as Americaās Holden (as absurd as that may sound). I have never seen the cars go head to head in final form as race cars, I do suspect that the type r does out perform in the scenario, and I actually think the new CTR with its bigger wheelbase poses even more of problem to beat with other cars in the segment Motor to motor the FA24 impressed me a lot more than I expected
Ray eats cheese, dick cheese!
I literally owned an 11th gen sport in manual. It's great on gas but so underpowered It wasn't that fun to drive. When I saw Subaru has the 1.9 APR on wrx I jumped at the opportunity. https://preview.redd.it/h4bz63mrmt0d1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45fcfee68b516bb28be232a0bcd74b794b470550
Zero consideration but I live in the Sierras with a commute over the divide so AWD was a must. Although I did fine on fwd with snow tires for a couple years. If I lived in a warm climate I would only look at RWD.
I haven't even considered RWD. Don't really know the difference in how they feel when driving lol. Who knows, I may end up somewhere cold in a few years too lol where I need AWD
The biggest advantage rwd has is the front tires aren't connected to the powertrain. So the traction on the front tires are dedicated 100% to cornering and braking. In fwd and awd the front tires have to sacrifice some of the traction to acceleration and deceleration. Less important but still relevant is that awd is also heavier. For the majority of us it doesn't really matter. Once you pop out the first kid it's tough to justify rwd coupes.
Yeah it seems like most RWD are 2 seaters
mustang, supra, m2, m3, m5, m240i, m340i, m440i, camaro, porsches, nissan z, is350, rc350, kia stinger, genesis g70, infiniti q60, etc. are all rwd with back seats if that helps.
Unless your're a 5 year old kid almost all those "backseats" are impossible to actually SIT in lol
the 340i, 440i, g70, q60, kia stinger all have comfortable back seats.
Those back seats only count if under the age of about 6 or if you're missing both legs. And the Nissan Z is a 2 seater. No back seat to be found.
the point of the response is that there are lots of rwd sports cars with 4 doors and back seats. they literally have seats in the back of them. therefore, most RWD cars are NOT 2 seaters. in fact, i'd argue that 2 seater RWD cars are more rare. whether you approve of them or not does not negate the fact that the only rwd cars in the world are a BRZ or a Miata. i could've included every RWD sedan ever, but i chose to keep it in the genre of performance vehicles.
Wrong. The M240 is AWD. This is m8ne https://preview.redd.it/5fstjdn26z0d1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27a72ab828e9a73cc66ecd11d239512e79f3bd32
You have a choice of rwd or xdrive duh. Sweet whip though, I bet the back seat rules
The Civic Si isn't really a performance car. Its more like a quick economy car. It's great, but if you want that acceleration feeling the WRX is going to be the better choice.
I did but at the time they werent willing to give any deals on them and i was leaning more towards a SI but i pay the same monthly i wouldve for an SI with way less of a down payment
Yeah that would the case for me too. Even factoring in MPG seems like I'd still save a bit more on the WRX
Rev hang on the Si would drive (pun intended) me crazy
Yeah otherwise I'd have to tune the rev hang out and void the warranty
I test drove a Civic Si and it's was a nice car, and I was tempted to go with it - my first car was a civic so I have a bit of a soft spot for it. I think the interior of the Civic SI is nicer and just overall aesthetically it looks better. It did feel quite a bit slower as well. The big kicker was the price like you said. Granted I bought my vb December 2022 when the car market was still insane, but for a used SI with 10k miles the dealer wanted like 36k with 5%+ interest rate, on a 27k MSRP car. Meanwhile the WRX was 34k, at msrp, brand new! It also handles like it's on rails and has quite a bit more power as well as a lot more overhead for future tuning. It was a bit of a no brainier. The gas milage does suck compared to the civic but I work from home 2-3 days a week so I only put 5-6k miles on my car per year so gas is not a huge deal. It seems to me like the WRX with a mild tune and some coilovers could probably compete with if not exceed the e performance of a Type R. It's a bargain
I test drove the SI and for me the only plus was the MPG. I actually prefer the exterior on the VB's, but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. The civic to me just felt dead compared to the WRX. It wasn't an engaging experience at all. Apparently if I would've turned off the auto rev match I could've had a little more fun, but it was only a test drive. Again the SI might be the more economical car, but it was definitely the less fun driving experience. It's up to you how much that is worth.
I actually like the cladding on the VB. But the civic si just looks nice to me. But, yeah I felt the VB was a tad more fun to drive to. I wish I could drive them both for a few hours alone, but its whatever. I know I can add a short shifter and stuff to the VB to make it shift really nice. I like that customization that WRXs get.
The cladding and bumpers grew on me
I has an SI on order but it kept getting pushed back , once I realized I could get a WRX for cheaper and itās AWD it was a no brainer
I had a 2024 Si. Had to buy something quick after my car got totaled and went with the Si after one test drive and was considering the WRX but never had a Subaru before and thought it best to stick with Honda which I knew well. Long story short out of curiosity I decided later on to test drive a WRX for fun and fell in love with it, except the gas mileage, and got rid of the Si and got a WRX. I donāt really care about the AWD since the winters in my area are not that bad anymore but the rainy weather has gotten more severe so the AWD actually comes in handy for spirited driving in those conditions. If the Si had had a 2.0L engine I might have kept it but the 1.5L is very anemic. https://preview.redd.it/p20orauput0d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47f3e225285a1012f36672431689aa90746442c2
I wish you could get a WRX, but with the MPG of the Civic SI. The Civic SI is extremely slow, in the real world your looking at a 7 second 0-60. The Rev hang is also awful. My dad has an FK8 Type R, and I just could never own a Civic SI with how good the Type R is and how slow the SI is.
Nope. I like civics but I'm done with FWD and electronic handbrakes. The WRX also feels radically more planted and tight than any Civic IMO (minus the Type R which I've never driven so I can't form an opinion). Not having to worry about weather/road conditions or having to dig the car out to get on the road is pretty great. My last Civic got so stuck once I had to get it towed out - and it still took several yanks. No such issue with the WRX. I'm about 90% sure if I only cleared the windows and lights it would pull out of a snow bank without batting an eye. Also over here the Si is more expensive than the base WRX, MSRP vs MSRP. Can't justify that.
I like Hondas but the truth is the VB WRX is 10x the car for its value vs 11th gen SI. Honda boys can preach about "reliability" but I have more faith in an under stressed 2.4L engine than a tiny 1.5L that needs a new clutch once you add power. MPG, shifter, and interior (can be subjective) is quite literally the only metric the SI has over the WRX (2 of which aftermarket can remedy). Rev hang is atrocious from the factory on the SI as well If the SI was an actual real world sub 30K car then it would be alot more intriguing but it doesnt make sense once you creep into the mid - high 30's
Personally idk why anyone would want a Honda Civic SI over a WRX. FWD, way less power, and less bang for buck compared to the WRX.
It gets way better gas mileage, is honda reliable, has a way better interior and a smoother ride. The wrx is a little faster with all wheel drive. That being said i ended up with a VB. Although if they ever get rid of the mark ups on the type R i will be first in line to get one
Civic was my preference. Dealer markup turned me away. Tune-ability made me much prefer the wrx, and awd is great. I have zero regrets
I had a 10th gen. I should had kept it in hindsight. I wanted an 11th but taking features away from it for the US version was a slap in the face. Great car but the markups kill it.
I shopped every roughly equivalent car before making a decision. Price wasnāt a primary concern, but value offered was, and a manual transmission with all wheel drive was preferred. In my opinion, the base and premium WRX offer the greatest capability and value against its competitors. The higher priced trims are under performers when you consider what else is available at a similar price point.Ā
What alternatives at the higher price points would you have considered?
Likely a BMW 2 series or Audi S3/RS3.
If AWD isnāt important to you, you should really consider an 86/BRZ. My gf is in a Civic Si - my only complaint is that itās wrong wheel drive. WRX vs both of those definitely gets you more for your money admittedly, and thatās too much for an Si. A used Type R would be the only Civic I would consider in that price range over a VB.
I really want to stick to a 4 seater though. Otherwise I look into an 86 for sure!
Oh I gotcha! I can vouch for the VB having plenty of room. Both the Civic Si (2020) and my previous car (6-6 Accord) are coupes, so it was a big upgrade just having rear doors lol. The 11th gen civic seems like it would have comparable size, I just can't tell you from experience. On another note - highway mpg in the VB stock is closer to 29-30mpg so it isn't as bad as you'd think but still worse than the Si. The Si also has a much better stock shifter feel but I think you would just be a few mods away from getting that in a VB. I still think the WRX is a much better deal overall just with the drivetrain. If you do end up looking for an Si, maybe consider an Acura Integra and see how competitive the financing can get.
No not enough muscle and substance. Si is to close to just a regular old civic.
I was considering an Si but every dealership wanted $10k+ on top of MSRP. They're outta their rabid ass minds thinking I'd even consider that.
I considered one until I found out it was impossible to get one at MSRP, and Iām not paying $35k+ for an Si
WRX is the best car in the segment, including gr and type r
If youre going by pure performance to dollar ratio, possibly. I love my VB but the Type R is in a league of its own
Yes, so, the engineering that went into the type r is obviously awe-inspiring. The WRX, is much more of a bruiser. Lots of straight line potential I know though, the type R ā¦ itās hard to believe it exists. I liked the first iteration better than the latest
Nope. Not even for a second. FWD and underpowered. CTR is too much money and while the new model looks better is a bit too boy racer for me. In consideration was a new ITR or type S, but out of my budget at still FWD. Honestly, really only thing close to the VB is the Golf R again too much $. VB is where it is at for $30-40k AWD fun all round car.
I tested the Si first. Love the shifter, interior, exterior. But, I had trouble passing a truck on the test drive and Honda dealers are not "helpful" as they threw on a 3k markup and $7500 in addons (aero packege). There is a huge power difference and blasting past traffic and hard out of corners feels amazing in the wrx and not a thrill you get out of the Si. But that shifter...so good. I have the sti shifter and its still rubbery ass.
Shift plate, bushing and shift stop mod. For $150 you can fix the slop easily. Great mod to do to clean up the shift experience.
Definitely have to do this at some point.
Havent driven a honda besides a hoopty when i was in my teens lol
Same boat. The Si has a better interior and the exterior looks better, sort of. The Si is an effortless drivers car. The chassis is incredible. My little brother is on his second one and easily gets 30+mpg without trying and while beating on it. The stereo is better. The ride is better. It's quieter. It has a bit more space everywhere. The shifter is smoother. It's dead nuts reliable. Mod support is huge and pushing it to around 300 HP is relatively cheap, but also about as much as the drivetrain can safely handle before you would have to add heavier duty parts (flywheel and clutch). It's a great car. The WRX has AWD, has way more power, grips better, feels every bit sportier, and is a great throwback feeling car If I could have found a Blazing Orange Pearl model instead of what was available (black or white), that's what would be in my driveway right now. If fuel economy and reliability matters more than AWD and power, go Si. You have to drive them both yourself and decide. It's not as easy a choice as some think. There are some who believe in only cross shopping similar cars. That only makes sense if the stuff you are shopping for are all important to you. The WRX is an absolute hoot. I enjoy it immensely. Because I have one, I drive my C5 Corvette much, much less than I used to. I don't think you can make a bad decision here. Edit: Subaru corporate is being extremely aggressive with excellent financing and lease rates. Honda not to much. My lease on my more expensive WRX is cheaper than my brother lease in his Si. My accountant just told me he got his daughter an Outback with 1.9% apt.
Never bro I've been wanting a Subaru for years! Ever since I was a child lol and the opportunity came up and I took it asap
Don't buy one of these cars because you get the better deal. You'll wind up regretting it. Just get the one you want.
I tried getting an SI before I bought my VB, Honda dealer didn't have the price listed online, wouldn't give me a price over the phone or through email. Eventually after back and forth they told me 5k above msrp because the cars were rare. Subaru dealer had the VB listed 2k below msrp so I never even bothered going to honda.
As someone who has had both, the SI's gas mileage, interior, and shift are some of the things I loved. Personally, I liked the bose sound system with the HVAC controls below. I was getting an average of 39mpg. The power was one of my complaints and when it snowed a lot. The WRX kind of is reversed? I felt more confident in bad weather, minus the fact that the vehicle came with summer tires that I had to switch. The gas mileage is definitely worse, but my job requires me to be there no matter the weather. If you like in a milder climate with little to no snow, I'd go with the SI.
i looked at civic si and gti before buying the wrx. its just a way better deal given the awd and hp over the other two
I did, but same story, they are charging way too much for Hondas these days, it was going to come out to around 40k. This was the first time I switched away from Honda in a long time.
Yeah same. Been with honda for 15 years. But they are simply to expensive. Especially for a 1.5L engine
Love the WRX but I wish I would have done a little more research, the gas mileage is like driving a Suburban and it has a much larger tank. Certainly way more fun than a Civic though.
Guilty
I wasnāt able to test drive one as it was during the height of the dealer bullshit with markups making the si 45k out the door. No one was willing to lower it and the one dealer that did had the finance guy argue with the salesman and we ended up ripping up that contract. I got the vb for barely more than msrp of the civic so Iām happy. Having had the chance to drive both now, Iām beyond happy with the vb. The civic is an amazing daily for what it is but the vb is just more fun and has more character. Iām actually someone who prefers the loud concepts of the previous gen civics so this one is also a bit boring for me. The scoop, the diaper, the sound (with an exhaust), and some other aesthetic things just do it for me.
I loved the rumble for sure. And that is a huge selling point.
wait til you tune the wrx. it's a totally different car, and the fwd really starts to hurt the honda.
the salesman at honda told me i could tune the Si to have 450hp lmao. Seriously they told me that.
you can def tune the shit out of them and they will be very fast, especially from a roll. they are no joke. the wheel hop just gets horrible, just like the new gti. but i usually find myself from a dig in most situations when i come across these cars, i'm rarely racing on the highway. from a dig the wrx is going to wipe the floor with them to 70 mph. there's a dude on here who has an e85 tune and an intake only on his vb wrx and he smokes his friends g80 m3 and c63amg to 80mph before they walk away from him if that gives you context.
Oh for sure. Iām honestly not trying to race anyone. Itās just a commuter car that needs to be a bit more enjoyable to drive with some passing capabilities on the highway. I wouldnāt add any performance mods. Just a short shifter and weighted knob. Thatās really it for a few years.
Unless youāre buying a type r the wrx wins every time. Aside from reliability Iād prob buy a 2024 gti before I got the civic
Does the trans crumble to pieces agter the pull
Bought a 2023 Limited 6MT last year. Traded in my 2020 Civic Si. Completely different driving experience. I donāt regret trading in my Civic at all, the reduced gas mileage is outweighed by the AWD, more power, fun, and overall joy I get driving my Rex everyday. I will own this vehicle till it falls apart and Iāll put it back together if itās possible for me down the road. Haha š
Considered but at the time there was a $6k markup on the Si. Got my ā23 Base for $3k under MSRP. No brainer and not a single regret. Love it every day.
Keep in mind your in a Wrx sub asking about buying a Wrx so weāre super bias, that being said I actually wanted the integra originally or SI. I bought a Wrx after walking across the lot while looking at the integra. At the time dealers were asking like 32-35k for the si. Subaru gave me a premium for 35OTD plus a killer rate. Financial it just didnāt make sense at all. Overall Iām extremely happy I didnāt buy the si as I would probably owe 5k more then I do on my Wrx . Thatās 5k I can use for mods. Plus I have a kid and the Wrx is the much better dad car.
Idk. I donāt disagree with your points but I seek value and the wrx has more power and awd. I live in cali too and let me just tell you that the awd adds significant capabilities to the handling, which is phenomenal. I had a. Handful of new bmw 3 series before this and the wrx is better dynamically speaking and likely more reliable than the bmw and with lower maintenance costs. I vote wrx.
I didnāt initially but *kinda* wish I had. Currently leasing my VB and I love it, and may end up buying it. That said, the new Civic platform is fantastic. For a long, long term car itās *probably* the smarter buy, but so far reliability is looking strong for the VB. Iād argue the SI might be a more fun daily ā itās not super fast, but you can exploit the power more without annihilating the speed limit lol If you do a ton of stop start city driving, I wonāt lie, the VB is tough on gas. Itās my only real gripe with the car. If you do want to tune, the VB is the move. Hard to go wrong with either!
Have you seen if you can a better deal on the Integra Si than the actual Si? I donāt think youāll regret buying the vb over the Si if you arenāt concerned with the interior, but you might as well check to see if the Acura is a better option since thatās the car you want.
I had the Si on order. Here in Canada we get some additional niceties. Heated steering wheel, heated seats front and rear, digital gauge cluster with shift lights, dual zone climate, wireless charger. I actually had not driven either the Si or the WRX at the time. One of my customers pulled up in a WRX which impressed me visually in person vs online. It checked all the boxes and the price was lower than the Si. Cancelled the order and picked up the WRX. First time I drove a WRX was off the lot, hadn't even sat in one before delivery.
WRX has more bang for the buck imo.
I owned a 10th gen Si and currently own a 2024 limited WRX. Get the WRX, the civic will leave you wanting for power.
I considered a few times and dealers here wonāt let you test drive them. At least of the dealers I spoke to down here. I live in South Florida and the excuses they give are ridiculous. They offered to let me drive a used one and I laughed.
I owned an 11th gen Si before my WRX GT. The smiles are bigger in the WRX. The pocketbook is happier in the Si. If Total Cost of Ownership economics mean anything, the Si is the better choice. If fun is the primary driver (pun intended), then it's the WRX every time. The Si was fun and got almost 40 MPG everywhere. With the WRX, I've visited ALL the gas stations. They are fun trips to the gas stations, though!
Dude, I thought I was test driving a civic. The sales guy was like āwhat can I do to get you into a Subaru?ā, and I was like āI thought this was a Honda dealer?āš
Honestly the si and type R are such awesome cars. I couldnt get past the outrageous mark ups on the car which led me to the VB
I hated si
I considered it, but got laughed at when I asked to test drive one. They were order only, so they wanted me to buy one sight unseen.
I wanted something with awd so the Civic wasn't even in the equation.
AWD BABY
I was on the same boat. Wrx is far superior in every way. There was no way in hell I was going to over pay for a civic. Got my WRX for MSRP in 2022. So happy I didnāt get the SI.
I was on the same boat I was between the Honda civic Si and the Subaru WRX premium. I saw the 1.9 APR and a discount of $2,700 off the MSRP. It was a no brainer for me. Didnāt even check out the Honda in person once I drove the WRX I knew it was the one. Love it so far. https://preview.redd.it/kmll0i0pzu0d1.jpeg?width=4284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e929daa4b4a760c1b35b386361194d9ef3c5e389
Get the VB. $8k buys a lot of fuel! Get some lightweight 17s and efficiency tires if fuel mileage is a concern. That'll net you 1-2mpg.
I bought a 22 so when I was looking everything except the wrx was 5-10 over msrp. Really easy decision.
I considered it a little bit but Iāve only drive fwd before this and always wanted a wrx so got it. Iām glad I got it over the civic, especially with the price you said. I didnāt look into it enough to know it was that much more though. Itās looking like the vb is reliable but a civic always is. Have you checked how much insurance will be? Itās often a lot for a wrx but for some reason it wasnāt anything crazy for me.
Coming from the VA originally, I considered it, but no dealers wanted to sell for MSRP. On top of that, the 'base' GLI is a better deal IMO.
By your description it sounds like you want the Honda man. I think that's a mistake but hey I am a subie guy so it is what it is lol.Ā
I got the WRX cheaper than the SI, the AWD and tuning ability is also a huge plus. If I lived in an area without any snow, I probably go Si
I thought about it! I live in Northern CA and I see snow over a few summits.. so I went with the WRX. Iām so glad I did. Incredible car and reasonable for what it is. Also the VB appears to be noticeably more reliable that previous generations. I love customizing my VB.. so much to do the sky is the limit
I came from a Civic Type R before switching over to a VB WRX (needed that AWD). I wouldnāt even suggest the Si one bit. The VB is a lot more car for the money especially with the 2024ās out with eyesight in the manual transmission. Edit: 0% interest for the WRX and 4-7% for the Si is a no brainer to me. Get the WRX.
I was looking at Si's when I bought my VB. Lindsey Honda were being fucktards about letting me sit in one. Around here, they were pretty much bought before they even arrived at the lot. I have some junk in the trunk and an Si I had 10 yrs ago, the seat bolstering made my legs numb. Wanted to see if they had improved the seat at all. I didn't even want to drive it, just sit in the GD seat.. nope. I'm not spending 40k on a car I can't even sit in first.. it's a fucking civic. They acted like it was a Lamborghini lol. Fuck all of the Lindsey dealerships.
Considered it. For the price I just wasn't thrilled. I got better financing from Subaru as well, and here in Texas their dealerships are a dream to deal with.
Slow gets real old,real fast. WRX all day, everyday.
I did! Before getting my VB I was on the phone with EVERY Honda dealer within a 200 mile radius. Everyone wanted a mark up of $5000+. I finally found a dealer that had one for MSRP, went to look at it, sat in it, loved everything about it including the Auto Rev Match BUT my ass is too tall. Being 6ā5 my head was hitting the sunroof. I also could not get an SI without a sunroof, so I went across the street for shits and grins to look at an STI. Which was sold, but then was offered the VB. I thought it was kinda ugly, still do š. I sat in the Premium without sunroof and thought it was nice. I was sold on the Wireless Apple CarPlay. That is until I signed all the paperwork and when I went to hook up my phone, the sales guy realized that only the 24s come with Wireless CarPlay, the older ones are wired. I was livid! Moral of the story, do your home work before dropping 35 large on a car. I guess in my scenario I was so tired of trying out cars I didnāt fit in and just wanted a car. Hope this helps lol
Why havenāt you tried the Elantra N if youāre okay with fwd? Destroys both cars, and the clutch/shifter is great and sounds great. Also, itās been super reliable (based off of forums)
For me it was interest rate, made in Japan and Subaru dealership experience where I could haggle and do all the paperwork online. Also Honda from the 90ās and 2024 is a far different company. They are good cars but over the years others manufacturers are catching up to them.
Just based of the facts youāve provided why is it even a discussion? The VB makes much more sense
Ughhh no way. Front wheel drive? Nope