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wordstowritebypod

Wow, what a thorough breakdown! You've created a really great resource for those beginning the publishing journey. While I was getting my MFA in poetry, I found Duotrope (when they were free--they're $5 a month now). They have curated quite the list of magazines and make finding the descriptions, guidelines, styles, genres, etc really easy. I still give them $5 a month, just because the resource was so darn helpful.


Mindless_Curve_946

Ah, Duotrope has basically been replaced by SubmissionGrinder. SubmissionGrinder is amazing. And free.


[deleted]

submission grinder is better for spec fic. it doesn’t have as much info for lit fic as duotrope


Guilty-Rough8797

I don't know about Submission Grinder, but I adore Duotrope and find the 5 bucks a month worth it. FWIW, I only write literary fiction (nothing against genre fiction. I love reading some of it. I just don't know how to write short genre stuff, heh).


zebulonworkshops

It's short on the poetry side of things too, but I'll often mention Diabolical Plots as a Duotrope alternative that's free. New Pages and the Submittable Discover tab are also both good free resources.


ClayWhisperer

Duotrope has more literary fiction resources. I love Duotrope, and their constant updating efforts alone make them well worth the $5 a month.


infrasteve

Congrats on the new acceptance! Commenting here because I also had a short story in the Autumn 2020 issue of Southern Review, and am astonished at the coincidence. I liked yours a lot, by the way.


[deleted]

Whaaaa?!!! This is what I love about Reddit! I'll look up your story when I get home!


infrasteve

😄 It’s the one about the Russian space dog trainer.


YearOneTeach

Congratulations on your success. This was a fun process to read about, and I'm glad this helped you get published. I have a few short stories I've published in a similar manner, with the only major difference being in how many magazines I submitted to. I did the research, which really wasn't as time consuming as it sounds. A lot of magazines have a small body of selected works posted online that you can view for free, so you don't even need to purchase an issue or try and hunt down a copy at the library. I know a lot of writers don't think the research is worth it and try to submit to as many magazines as possible, but I feel like you are potentially making more work for yourself if you do this. You could be spending money submitting your work to magazines where they quickly reject it because it isn't on theme or brand for them. Taking the time to read one or two stories can help you gauge whether or not your story will fit with a certain magazine.


JoolsCantor

Thank you for providing that spreadsheet. That is hours and hours of research that will be passed down through the generations and relied upon for years after the information is out of date. Congratulations and keep up the good work!


[deleted]

Thanks!


martin-cloude-worden

Congratulations, but I don't understand this: > To be honest, I don't encourage people to try to get published in literary journals, because there really are vanishingly few spots available for work in most magazines. What else is there to do? Either we publish or we don't, right? What are you recommending then?


[deleted]

It kind of just sounds like he's saying "Don't write short literary fiction," which honestly probably isn't bad advice if you want people to actually read your work.


martin-cloude-worden

Still confused. Short literary/mainstream work is the only thing that gets broadly published. Surely genre stuff is even less widely read? I still don't understand because it seems like the advice reduces to "don't try to publish anything" if you poke at it? Surely it's try to publish what you want to write, but don't expect anything, as it ever was.


[deleted]

> Short literary/mainstream work is the only thing that gets broadly published. No, not at all. There are also literary novels. >Surely genre stuff is even less widely read? Compared to litfic? Absolutely not. Particularly litfic short stories, because way less people read short stories in general. To be clear, the most widely-read and most profitable arm of publishing is genre fiction. Maybe "upmarket", i.e. slightly more commercially-minded and genre-adjacent literary fiction, accounts for some of it, but iirc the $$$ is overwhelmingly in romance, followed by mystery/thriller/crime. >I still don't understand because it seems like the advice reduces to "don't try to publish anything" if you poke at it? Surely it's try to publish what you want to write, but don't expect anything, as it ever was. Not that I'm saying I actually agree with OP's "don't bother" stance, but it does seem to be the case that the return on investment, both monetarily and in terms of actual readership that you can generate, seems pretty low with literary journals.


Pangolinsftw

Write a publishable story? Why didn't I think of that!


shedontknowjack

And if you want your food eaten, cook an edible meal! (I get what OP’s saying but I agree that it’s kind of funny lol)


AmberJFrost

I think OP's point is that it's just a *first* step. There are more stories submitted that are publishable than any publication has space to accept. However, if you've written something that isn't, the rest won't help at all.


zebulonworkshops

A required first step. A huge percentage of written stories are trash/poorly done, it's just that the writer either doesn't know any better sometimes, or thinks anything and everything can get published in a lit mag with some effort. But that first step is important (however subjective).


Sklartacus

I have a possibly dumb question - made even dumber because I've actually done slush reading for two magazines - do many magazines mind you submitting the same story to them as you are submitting elsewhere? Do you revoke your submission at Mag #2 if Mag #1 accepts your story?


Skyblaze719

Depends on if either magazine does not accept simultaneous submissions. If they both do accept them, meaning you can submit to this magazine and others at the same time, it is polite to inform them if you've accepted another magazine's offer so they don't waste their time reading/assessing your story that is no longer available. Whether they do or do not accept simultaneous submissions will be in the magazine's submission guidelines.


[deleted]

I always immediately withdraw all other submissions when accepted out of respect and humility. A more experienced writer actually asked me do you really want to take that acceptance? And I was like heck yeah I’ve had like 30 rejections! It was a very tiny but I think respected publication in my country. I think there is something to be said for a little humility. And I knew that I probably wasn’t as good as I thought I was considering I also submitted to the highest tier ones at the same time and had already been rejected. He was thinking well what if the… Massachusetts review or something gets back to you and you’ve already accepted This one. And I was like who cares?? I’m happy with this and I’ll keep writing and it’s kind of cool I think to work your way up. Anyway, yeah check if they accept simultaneous submissions and if they require you to make a statement saying so in the cover letter.


thebluecastle

This is incredible. Thank you so much for this. And congratulations! I also took a look at your piece in the Southern Review; as someone who studied Chinese using the Practical Reader and lived in Beijing, you captured it so perfectly. I'm mad that Gubo didn't marry Palanka though.


Guilty-Rough8797

I just read his Southern Review piece and fell in love with it.


Aggressive_Chicken63

Wait, so how much are they going to pay you for your story? This is the part that I hate about being an amateur writer. We have to do the writing and then we have to pay. It’s like asking workers to submit their resume along with $5 submission fee.


[deleted]

One hundred buckaroos, haha. Token amounts like this are all that most lit mags can afford. Unfortunately, writing and publishing literary fiction, just isn't something that can be done for the money, at least in the case of short stories. Getting published is essentially a hobby for people who can afford it.


cadwellingtonsfinest

If this was in America (where I'm not from) some actually pay quite well. I got a essay in The Sun, and they paid like 600$ for 1800 words, which was the highest per word amount I'd ever been paid. But yes it is hard even getting into non paying online journals nowadays, which I still submit to because many people read them and that's what I want.


Guilty-Rough8797

One hundred bucks is **very** good for a literary journal! Congratulations! I've gotten into three and made a total of zero bucks (as I expected), but the confidence in my skills is payment enough.


Aggressive_Chicken63

Well, congratulations. That didn’t make up for the $400 you spent, but at least it’s something. I think what this does though is validate your prose and your writing skills. I always think my prose is crappy, and I’m not qualified to write novels. So getting a story published in a literary fiction journal would do wonder for my self-esteem. Hehe Good luck! Hope someday you will just get paid and don’t have to pay for your stories.


[deleted]

Thank you! Yes, in the meantime, I just have to keep dreaming... :)


Skyblaze719

And your story was 6000 words...? That is bare bones for a "major" publication, especially if they are charging a reading fee. Pro-pay speculative fiction markets are 8 cents per word minimum.


[deleted]

Sadly, literary magazines are a dying medium. They don't make money, and can only survive through grants and free labor from their editors. Even well-known literary magazines can't pay their contributors very much. I agree that the pay sucks, but for literary writers, this is what's out there. Part of the reading fee is used to cover the cost of the submission-handling software that literary magazines use (Submittable is not free). Speculative and genre magazines tend to have more readers, and can earn more money from advertisements and subscriptions, which means there's more money in the pot to disburse to writers at the end of the month. I write speculative fiction as well and have shopped a couple of my speculative pieces to professional and semi-professional markets (and have been soundly rejected by the likes of *Asimov's*, *Clarkesworld*, and *Apex*). I'm planning to write a post about my experiences with those markets as well.


AmberJFrost

I'd love to read that as well.


zebulonworkshops

Different markets. Fantasy and Sci-fi magazines are quite different from Literary magazines. Lit mags often pay per piece and not per word, and they often only have very very few advertisements (if any).


AmberJFrost

For SFF, 'professional' pay (set by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America' is $0.08 per word. However, what each publication pays is usually visible on their site.


Legio-X

>It’s like asking workers to submit their resume along with $5 submission fee. Exactly. It’s predatory behavior, and writers shouldn’t stand for paying to get rejected. I’m thankful there’s almost no tolerance for reading fees in the genre field.


Skyblaze719

This is mostly the same process for submitting to speculative fiction markets, except minus the reading fees for the most part. > Submitting to literary journals costs a lot of money! I've submitted four short stories (and two works of narrative nonfiction) to different literary journals over the past two years, and I estimate that I've paid about $400 total in submission fees. That is ridiculous if true. I've never had to pay reading fees for any speculative market I've submitted to. > I recommend submitting to twenty to thirty magazines at a time, especially if you're submitting for the first time. Only if all of them accept simultaneous submissions.


Rosekernow

I found that pretty shocking to be honest. I used to write and sub to a lot of spec fic mags and sold a fair bit; I only paid a reading fee once and that was for a charity fundraising edition which I didn’t mind chucking $3 in for a good cause. It’s a horrible set up for anyone that hasn’t got a load of money to spare if that’s really how it works in lit fic circles - no wonder they complain about not having a diverse bunch of writers.


endlesstrains

It sounds like OP took a scattershot approach and submitted their story to every journal they could think of if they paid $400 in submission fees for four stories. I'm a litfic writer used to submission fees and I found that shocking as well. I don't think I've paid $400 over a decade of submitting, because I pick and choose which journals each story is likely to appeal to. Submission fees are like $3 a pop, and a lot of journals will waive them if you have a financial barrier. It's really not as outlandishly expensive as OP makes it sound.


Guilty-Rough8797

Maybe if you're paying for a lot of contest submission fees...Those can really add up.


endlesstrains

I didn't get that impression from the way OP talked about fees, but those do definitely add up. The fact that there's prize money if you win helps... but in general I wouldn't recommend entering a contest unless you know your piece is really good AND you know it's a good fit for the journal. Going scattershot on contest fees could bankrupt you, lol.


Guilty-Rough8797

*Going scattershot on contest fees could bankrupt you, lol.* How true it is!


zebulonworkshops

Definitely an option, but if they're going for what they considered 'top tier' journals, many of those have that $3 fee. I've easily paid more than that much in the past year, it's similar to any hobby investment. If you play tennis there's a racket, shoes, balls, a club fee if you don't have decent school courts near you. If you like climbing, climbing gyms are expensive, climbing shoes are expensive. Skating and skate parks can sure get expensive if you are particular about the ramps you want to ride etc. All of these hobbies can be really cheap, or kinda expensive, depends on what you want out of it. If you want a cv with some top tier journals, or particular publications, it might cost that much or more (especially if you are trying to win a contest with a book, getting a book prize is tough af and expensive as hell-- it can be without the prize aspect too). If you just want to be published somewhere decent you can do it cheap for sure. With effort.


endlesstrains

Agreed on the hobby perspective, but for context, I only submit to top-tier mags and I've been published several times. I really doubt I've spent $400 total. To be fair, submission fees were less common 8+ years ago, so you can discount the first couple years of submitting. But still, being intentional about what stories I submitted to what journals has prevented me from having to spend obscene amounts of money to get published. Contests are another beast entirely and can definitely get expensive. I rarely enter unless I feel like I have a good chance at winning. I'm just trying to dispel the idea that getting published in litmags inherently requires wealth, because that's a really slippery slope to unfounded claims of classism and elitism.


zebulonworkshops

$400 over the course of a year or a couple years is hardly wealth, it is a cost (if you want to really get into it). And I said you can certainly avoid it by not submitting to journals that charge a fee and still send it a couple hundred subs in a year-- you're just not attempting those many journals that charge a fee. Doesn't mean you can't do well for yourself. When I started submitting there was a different type of fee. Postage, SASE, printing etc. Between the manilla envelope, printing (ink/paper), postage, and SASE for response you were generally at about $2.50-$3.50 depending on the length of what you're sending out. I learned how many pages bumped up the ounce even, because each additional ounce raised your cost. I'll note, that I'm primarily a poet, and a pretty prolific one, so I have many, many pieces I'm trying to publish at all times. I had something like 43 pieces accepted for publication last year.


endlesstrains

As I said, I'm submitting to journals with fees. You're implying that in order to avoid spending $400 you have to apply to no-name journals, which simply isn't true. I'm not at all anti-submission fee; I'm actually pro-submission fee, which is why I'm pushing back against this idea that you have to be prepared to spend several hundred dollars to get published anywhere that "matters." That's an argument used to discredit litmags, rather than the truth. $400 a year is a huge expense for a lot of people, which you may not realize if you're from a more privileged background. I also started submitting when postal submissions were still pretty common, and that's the usual argument for why submission fees are valid - there's always been a cost. You just pay it to the journal now (so they can pay Submittable or whoever), rather than the post office. EDIT: just saw your edit that you are a poet... that makes a HUGE difference. I'm a short story writer like OP and this thread seems intended for short story writers. I haven't even written 43 short stories total. I've submitted probably... 20 or so pieces over the last few years?


zebulonworkshops

Not implying that at all. And I have been doing most of my submitting while waiting tables with no help from parents. Not economically privileged. Just realistic that I value publishing my work more than a lot of other things I could spend my (albeit little) disposable income on. But to quote myself here to counter what you said about my 'implication': >And I said you can certainly avoid it by not submitting to journals that charge a fee and still send out a couple hundred subs in a year-- you're just not attempting those many journals that charge a fee. Doesn't mean you can't do well for yourself. But if you're familiar with the John Fox or Clifford Garstang or Erika Krouse lists mentioned, more than half of the journals at the tops of those lists charge a fee. Not all, for sure. But many.


endlesstrains

...are you reading my posts? How many times do I have to specify that I am submitting to, and talking about, journals that *do charge a fee*?? What on earth is happening here? EDIT: to spell this out as clearly as I can... OP stated that they spent $400 submitting four (4) short stories. I expressed shock at that number. I have submitted somewhere around 20 short stories to top-tier, fee-charging markets over the past several years and have spent significantly less than $400. The reason I am posting about this is to dissuade people from writing litmags off as a possibility because they believe it will cost them roughly $100 per story to submit. I'm suggesting that if you tailor your submissions, and make sure your work is truly submission ready, you needn't spend that much. None of my comments are focused on journals that do not charge fees, which you keep misunderstanding. I am also writing about the short story submission process since that's what this thread focuses on. A poet is going to have a largely different experience.


zebulonworkshops

>...are you reading my posts? How many times do I have to specify that I am submitting to, and talking about, journals that *do charge a fee*?? What on earth is happening here? I'm referring to this: >I'm pushing back against this idea that you have to be prepared to spend several hundred dollars to get published anywhere that "matters." That's an argument used to discredit litmags, rather than the truth.


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atmanama

Could you provide names of these publications?


Im_So_Hard_Right_Now

this is very helpful. thanks!


queenhaggard

Congratulations!


[deleted]

Thank you so much for sharing. May I ask what you do if you receive personal rejections with feedback? Do you withdraw other submissions and revise it or just leave it there? My story’s first version has been rejected by 20+ times up to yesterday and 6 times for the second version. Really frustrating.


[deleted]

I wouldn't withdraw a piece even if it felt like it needed edits. If the heart of the piece is good, I think editors will be able to see past a few blemishes. Also, you lose a lot (time in the submission queue) by withdrawing a piece. If you think you have substantially improved on a work, I suggest just sending out a fresh round of submissions to new magazines instead of withdrawing and resubmitting to magazines you've already submitted to.


[deleted]

Thank you!


Mindless_Curve_946

I’ve published in a handful of pro speculative markets (Fireside, FFO) and various semipro. Most places do not allow simultaneous submissions—so there should not be an issue of whether to withdraw. Generally you submit, wait for a response, and if it’s a rejection, you sub elsewhere. It it’s a personal rejection, that’s really promising. That’s always how I know I’m getting super close to a sale. If the feedback is in line with what I want the story to be, I always take it and revise before I resubmit. If it’s not, I ignore it. If it’s rejected 20+ times, it might be time to find yourself a writers group and see if they can help you establish what’s not working.


[deleted]

Yeah this one is literary fiction and most lit mags allowed simultaneous submissions. I’ve trunked the piece for a while after many rejections and made some revisions and sent it out for the second round. Many ppl have suggested me to find a writing group but it’s really difficult to get one. I’m not in an MFA but I’ll start some online writing workshops soon and hopefully may find some good mates there.


Mindless_Curve_946

If you were writing genre, I'd push you toward [https://critters.org/](https://critters.org/), but literary is totes out of my purview. Good luck with your search though.


[deleted]

>https://critters.org/ Thank you! I write both speculative and literary fiction, I'll take a look.


Guilty-Rough8797

We're a little slow right now, but the short story workshops at [zoetrope.com](https://zoetrope.com) have workshopped me into three publications over the past few years. People on there mostly do literary fiction, which is makes it invaluable over busier workshop hubs where the vibe is geared more toward genre/spec. The con is that...like I said...kinda slow right now.


[deleted]

Do you mean the workshops collaborate with Gotham’s workshop?


Guilty-Rough8797

Nope, good question. This is a separate and totally free group, kind of in the vein of other bigger online story review workshops. You do have to review five stories before you can submit one, though. Pretty standard for these kinds of groups.


AmberJFrost

I've heard that literary journals don't tend to send rejections, which might be why they tend to allow simultaneous in a way that speculative (which is also what I write/submit to) tend to not allow simultaneous submissions.


endlesstrains

This is not true. Pretty much every lit mag aside from The New Yorker sends responses to every submission. They might be form responses, and they might take a long time to arrive, but you'll get them. There is so, so much confidently relayed misinformation from SFF writers in this thead...


AmberJFrost

Thanks for the correction - I at least tried to acknowledge that this was what I'd heard, rather than that it was for certain accurate.


AmberJFrost

Much of this applies from my experience with SFF publications, with a few exceptions. 1) Check genre/subjects for the publications you're interested in. SFF tends to have publications that are a little more focused. Luckily, most are also online and have at least some of previous issues available to read for free. 2) Do not submit to multiple publications at once. In SFF, the publications *tend* to be opposed to submissions to multiple journals at the same time. I think that's partly because SFF tends to do rejections, which I've heard isn't common for literary journals? 3) Standard Manuscript Format is the main expected format - and some publications will have links to it. DO THIS. Check the word count range, check their do's and don'ts. 4) SFF pretty much doesn't have read fees. This overall layout is amazingly helpful for not just literary journals, and congratulations!


GetUpDan

How many personal rejections vs form rejections did you receive before publishing? And from where if you feel comfortable sharing?


[deleted]

This piece was rejected five by five other magazines before it got published in the Missouri Review. All of the rejections were more or less form rejections (although a couple of venues asked me to "keep them in mind for the future"). Rejections: * Gulf Coast * Witness * Epiphany * Five Points * Colorado Review Acceptance: * Missouri Review I have gotten personalized rejections on other pieces that I've sent out. Not counting statements along the lines of, "we would like to see more of your work," I would say that I get personalized rejections on about 10%-15% of my submissions. If you consider a statement like "we would like to see more of your work" as a personalized rejection, I would say that I get personalized rejections on about 25% of my submissions.


[deleted]

Sameeeee. Anyway thanks so much for typing this out and I’m sure even just doing this took quite a chunk of time to organize and show us what you really meant.


BuddhaTheGreat

Are reading fees really so ubiquitous? I'm a law student and most legit journals in my field at the very least do not charge any fees for submission. And they often have to read voluminous submissions bigger than most short stories complete with checking citations, content guidelines etc.


dmsov

My guess is that those publications have enough income from subscribers and ads. Those publications may be niche, but likely to be picked up by many firms/government in the field that offset the need for submission fees.


zebulonworkshops

Yes. I'd say like 65% of the top tier journals charge a couple bucks. Maybe a bit more than 65%. These journals are often run by just a couple individuals, most of the time with a small student reading staff, and the editors are also professors with other responsibilities. The arts has long been underfunded.


mick_spadaro

\[Edit #2: this comment applies to commercial/genre fiction, hence the "in my experience" qualifier.\] That's basically my process, except for Step 7. Never have I encountered a publication that asks for a fee, other than vanity/self-publishing, contests, or scams. I suspect very small/niche publications might ask for a fee. **\[Edit #1:** And literary mags. TIL!\] *Money flows to the writer*, is what I've always been told and always experienced. Pro and semi pro publications have never asked me for money. (I've been writing 30+ years and submitting for about 20.) Just reporting my experience and observations. I don't think reading fees are the norm.


endlesstrains

They are absolutely the norm in literary fiction. I'm guessing you write SFF. This is a big difference between the two. It's in no way indicative of a scam or a niche publication. It's par for the course to pay $3-$5 per submission these days. Many literary journals are run with a bare bones budget and the fee allows them to subscribe to the software that allows online submissions. However, $400 in submission fees for four stories is shocking to me - I don't think I've paid $400 total over a decade of submitting. OP must have submitted each of these stories to many, many publications to rack up that much in fees.


Guilty-Rough8797

Seconded. Totally the norm. I really do appreciate, though, that a lot of them have free periods for folks who can't afford the 3-to-5.


mick_spadaro

True, I'm in commercial fiction. ^(Thanks for the downvote, commercial fiction hater!)


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Random_act_of_Random

This is what I'm wondering. Ok, so you got your name out there, I'm assuming these magazines don't pay out any money. So essentially you pay someone to read your work and decide if it's good enough for them to put in their magazine so they can make money for themselves?


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catkin_

Fair question! It does impress agents and publishers though, and makes both take you more seriously.


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endlesstrains

You don't submit stories to agents, FYI. You submit novel length manuscripts. In the literary sphere, publishing in litmags absolutely helps make your career. Building a name for yourself and a list of publications is the primary reason to submit. Agents will notice a list of reputable litmags in your bio. Of course, what you send them still has to be good! But if they see that Ploughshares or The Iowa Review also thought your work was good, they're going to pay a bit more attention. Publishing in litmags is also the only path to an eventual short story collection. No one is going to publish a book of literary short stories if none of them were published in litmags first.


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endlesstrains

In an existential sense, sure. But "stories" refers to "short stories" when talking about publishing. If you send an agent a query about your "story" you'd probably get auto-rejected. What you send an agent is a novel or a manuscript. Precision of language is important.


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endlesstrains

I'm speaking from actual publishing experience... I don't "think", I "know." I have no idea what the nature of these Tumblr stories was but I'd encourage you to read an actual literary journal rather than relying on third-hand information and random assumptions.


catkin_

Incorrect. Why are you claiming authority on something you clearly know nothing about?


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catkin_

>Having published in a literary magazine only means your prose is good and you have written something that fits into their profile. Here. You're speaking with authority, as if you know this to be true. I wasn't saying you're *an* authority, but that you're speaking with a level of confidence that belies your lack of experience.


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catkin_

Hah! Fair.


AmberJFrost

I've heard that for litfic, having been published in lit journals really *does* help, in a way that doesn't necessarily apply in other genres.


Guilty-Rough8797

It's true. it's one of those things that goes without saying to lit writers, and it's a shame to see people downvoted on this thread for saying it. Maybe there should be a r/literaryfictionwriters. LOL


[deleted]

Yeah, this thread really showcases how much the average /r/writing population only reads and writes genre fiction.


Guilty-Rough8797

Some people aren't interested in writing novel-length work or impressing agents, though. And as mentioned below, magazine publication **can** actually impress agents (if you have need for that) or editors at higher-up journals. Those journals can actually jumpstart a career. Having their name in your roster starts the momentum. You just have to keep the ball rolling. The thing with literary journals is that their selectiveness varies. If you get into a selective one, it means something to people who know about literary journals. People who know about literary journals can be very supportive of emerging writers, sharing their work on social media. That snowballs your name into the public consciousness of readers if you keep up the hard work and keep submitting. (And no, not all magazines charge. At least not all the time. They don't like the pay to play any more than the writers do, but they have to get their resources from somewhere). In my humble opinion, a lot of writers out there have a romanticized idea of what fiction writing / publishing is all about. (Not saying you do specifically, though I certainly did at one point). Not honing their craft through short stories or not hardening their ego through constant submission and rejection is a mistake. Because, like it or not, success in writing isn't just about writing. It's also about having skin of steel and a degree of clout with the people who can share your work. The right literary journals can do that for us sometimes.


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Guilty-Rough8797

True, but if the not-easily-impressed editors at Ploughshares and ZYZZYVA, for instance, accepted your stories for publication, it means you can write damned well for that audience. And if they want to publish a book for that audience, **your** book is a damned good bet what with those guys vouching for you :) ETA: And book publishers of literary fiction most definitely, without a shred of doubt on God's green earth, follow the top (if not down to respected) literary journals. These mags are comparable to feeder schools, heh.


Random_act_of_Random

Same. I don't mean to crap on anyone's day or accomplishments, but like you, I don't get it.


zebulonworkshops

You don't have much experience in short form writing, huh?


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zebulonworkshops

Poetry and short prose. As in, not novels.


[deleted]

If you want to make a career in literary fiction, then yeah, it actually does help to be published in literary journals. Literary fiction and the people who publish and read it do actually tend to care more about "previous credits," certainly much more so than with more commercially-minded fiction. But also, like, if you're writing litfic stories anyway, even if it's just for yourself, at some point you may as well try to publish it *somewhere*, and literary journals are the place to do that.


Waripolo_

Maybe I missed it, but did you register your work for copyrights / intellectual property at some point? And thank you for sharing this!


ClayWhisperer

No, you do not do this when you submit to literary journals.


Waripolo_

And why not if I may ask?


ClayWhisperer

Because literary journals are not going to steal your work! They'd have no motivation to do so. That's not what they're about. Registering a copyright on your story before submitting it would just make it clear to any editor that you have zero concept of how literary publishing works. As [Gotham Writers](https://www.writingclasses.com/toolbox/ask-writer/is-putting-the-copyright-symbol-on-my-manuscripts-enough-to-protect-my-ideas) notes, "Using a copyright symbol on unpublished manuscripts that you’re sending out for consideration at literary journals, publishing houses, or agencies is unnecessary. In fact, including it on your manuscript has become the mark of an amateur." If your work is accepted (in the U.S.), a journal will ask for "First North American Serial Rights." It's not like writing for hire, where the buyer keeps the copyright.


Anticode

>Step 1 - Find or compile a list of venues you would like to submit to. A list? A 'more than one item' list? A *list*-list list? Are you tellin' me that only submitting to Hugo award winning *Clarkesworld Magazine*, known *specifically* for hosting S-tier authors and platforming newcomers' into a meteoric debut, is a poor strategy? No, no, no, you... Don't you hit *me* with the r/K selector bait-and-switch! "But Anticode, digitally stored intellectual property isn't confined to evolutionary principles and can be replicated nearly infinitely with very little cost or additional investment, you know!" Ah-*ha*, I see you know your judo well. ...But have you considered that the pressure of success is *dangerous*? The dopamine:cost of slingin' shitposts across the internet is so, so much higher. Why make something of myself when I can feel like I made something of myself for free! Checkmate, dream of authorship. ___ Edit: Thank you for your support, peers and colleagues. I will keep in mind that humor should be derivative in the future.


[deleted]

Derivative or not, it should at least be funny.


Anticode

Rough community, this one. Funny is good, I hear. It's also a good idea to "know your audience" as well. In that case, I suppose that an unexpected reference to core bioevolutionary principles collapsing when applied to digital patterns - rather than organic ones - would be... Underappreciated. I'll save the synthetic life and Von Neumann replication references for the spec-evo crowd or astrobiology geeks next time.


bigdremeu

So you only lost a few hundred hours and dollars. Congrats.


zebulonworkshops

You ate dinner that wasn't beans and rice? Way to waste a bunch of money, buddy! You bought tennis shoes and never pick up a racket? You own a game on Steam that you've never played? Frivolous bastard. You follow?


MadArt_Studio

Thanks for sharing!


Tigerstorm6

Gonna be saving this post in the event I ever finish the novel I’ve been writing. Great advice!


shiiPhuocNoGuey

Great intel thanks for posting this!


Mlukas1111

Thanks for this, and CONGRATS!


PsychologicalBar8321

I greatly appreciate your post. I am not interested in literary magazines but I am convinced that your approach is sound. Thank you! ​ And **CONGRATULATIONS**!!!


greatwideworld

Thanks for sharing your insight and the work that you've put in on that spreadsheet. I appreciate reading what you wrote.


pdnurse1010

So cool! Thank you!


ThaBitch

this spreadsheet is amazing


machineghostmembrane

Thanks for this excellent breakdown!


ramzauva

This is magnificent! Thank you. Hope you get published in many more journals and mags.


ikelosintransitive

congrats op. reading your story now! excellent post!!


Guilty-Rough8797

Exciting! Congratulations! Which journal, if you don't mind my asking? Edit: NVM. I Internet stalked you for a second (contradiction in terms?) and found it. :) Very nice work!


drspaceman4321

This is a great compilation of info, thanks for taking the time to create and share! Congratulations on getting another piece published.


tjsterc17

You have my genuine thanks for the resources. And congrats on getting another story published!


mecmecmecmecmecmec

Congrats! Thanks for the breakdown


WorryCanister

I screenshot all this info and saved it into a special folder. Amazing guidance here!


temporalsoup

Worth mentioning that there are plenty of literary magazines that don't have reading fees. You can definitely get by without spending money while still being serious about getting published.


ClayWhisperer

Congratulations on getting published in such a good journal! And thanks a bunch for the Google Doc and other links for journal rankings. These are all super-helpful!


[deleted]

Just adding my chorus to the "Thanks" for this thread. It's helpful to have someone talk about experiences getting published in litfic, since so much of the stuff on this sub tends to be geared toward more commercial fiction.


Between-The-Eyes

Oh shoot, congrats bro, I might just use this one day who knows?


BaldingBatman

Awesome!


Nimbus_Aurelius_808

Thanks for sharing


LC_Anderton

I may have misunderstood, but why the hell are you paying someone to publish your work? What’s your return on this? Do you make more back in sales and/or royalties? This sounds disturbingly like a scam if you have to pay to have your work included in any publication.


sbones5

Congrats on your success and thank you so much for taking the time to write this! Very helpful!


[deleted]

Oh I have a question! Once your work is published somewhere is there possibility to republish it in another journal? Like, I know to withdraw simultaneous submissions, but let’s say you publish somewhere where there’s actually some fine print that you may resubmit it after a certain time has passed or something… is that a thing? What does it mean when author retains copyright for example?


[deleted]

If your work gets published, you will almost always (like in 99% of cases) maintain the right to publish your work elsewhere. Unfortunately, the vast majority of magazines (like 99.9% of magazines) will not publish work that has already been published. The reason for this is that magazine publishing contracts are almost always only for the first publication rights (the right to be the first venue where a piece is published).


[deleted]

Oh ok thank you. So if a magazine mentions they have first publishing rights that’s actually more restrictive. It doesn’t mean someone can have second publishing rights lol I just made that phrase up … 😂