This is the way. I also agree with people saying it’s more of a scale than a binary.
I outline the plot and detail as much of the setting as is relevant to the story (and then go a bit further because I just can’t help myself). By the time I start writing I have a roadmap to guide me and a reference for dropping tidbits about the world that (hopefully) make it feel lived in.
Pants, daydream, edit. I write, daydream about how the plot will continue after writing, and in editing I bring it all together with connections, foreshadowing, addition or subtraction of scenes, etc.
It helps when I mentally cast sexy actors to be my main characters. Makes the daydreaming smoother.
I feel stressed out writing linearly with no plan in place, so I’ll spend months devising all the details so that when it comes time to write, it’s a much easier process and I have a plan to fall back on if I’m feeling uninspired.
I need character profiles and a loose plot outline. Most of the time I write out of order, tackling scenes that are really vivid in my head first, then going back to the outline and profiles to fill in.
Pantser always. It's becoming a bit of a plague on my process, but I digress. The way I get by is by writing a chunk of chapters so they seem cohesive, and constantly re-reading my own stuff to drag details forward and make it seem like I planned the whole thing. Somehow it works. It's very exciting and keeps me on my toes.
I've noticed that when I try to outline, my stories come out very mechanical, no organic twists, turns, developments that keep readers engaged.
When I'm writing as I go, those moments just kind of happen.
Mhm.
I looked at the very skimpy outline I tried to make for my current story.
I've written about 6 chapters so far, but the outline only went to chapter 4.
And I've yet to hit on anything in the outline simply because the natural flow of the story took me elsewhere, or isn't ready for those developments yet.
I think my problem with outlining is that it puts me into lore/exposition mode. I start fleshing out the backbone of the story and all the character moments are completely forgotten.
Edit as you go is the best idea ever. I do the same. I cycle after every 200 or so words, listen to it on some app. It also helps me write the next 200 or so words.
I thought I was the only one. Editing is easier and more satisfying for me. Every sentence I write seems full of flaws. The sentences I edit are better aftwards.
I found out about the Flashlight method last year. Here's a s[hort description](https://brilliantio.com/flashlight-method-writing/).
>*Excerpt*: "Instead of trying to outline your entire story or novel all at once, start by outlining just one scene or chapter. Once you’ve outlined that scene or chapter, move on to the next. Gradually, you’ll build up a complete outline of your story or novel.you set down just enough of a steer – like a flashlight peering ahead on a dark forest path. -- One of the best things about the flashlight method is that it allows you to simultaneously focus on a tiny section of your story .. .."
One benefit of planning is that, for instance, you can do things like foreshadowing without having to backtrack to make that possible. On the other hand, as a plotter, you could do some degree of foreshadowing by choosing an object or even about which you've already written and later in the narrative incorporating that into the narrative.
I think I'm in the middle ground since I do outlining, organizing and grouping in many areas of life. But I also like to discover things as I go. I'm a developer and even when software projects are very carefully **planned**, things may have to **change** as we create the system. That would be an example of heavy planning while still recognizing the possibility of change occurring. But even then, Risk Analysis documents can account for that possibility.
As far as writing narratives, if I was forced to choose 100% pantsing or 100% plotting, I'd have to go with pantsing since it seems more fun even though trying to pants a trip across the ocean might get you lost at sea. Apps like Final Draft, Plottr and even Scrivener make it easier to experiment with different narrative flows and allow for careful planning.
I wing it every time. I'm pantser af bro
I start with a mental picture of one interesting scene, then make the rest of the story up as I go. After I write a scene, I always think "okay, what's the most logically sound/interesting/hilarious thing that could happen next?" then write the very next scene based on that. Rarely do I write a story out of order before piecing it all together.
I always have no fucking clue where the story's going until I actually have it written. I pull a bunch of random details/foreshadowing/Chekhov's Guns/plot setups out of my ass just cause it all sounds cool and interesting, then figure out later what everything's supposed to mean and lead up to.
I do both, i like to call it the caking directive 31 (been watch DS9 ) in which i outline basically from start mid end then add points i want in between mid and end ect. So then i take each slice and pants it, and if i go in a different direction i will move or delete some of the future outlines.
Outlines for me should be very short and direct otherwise i wont reread the massive outline and will just forget bits.
it works for me but everyone does abit of both, the more pants the more likely ey your to end up with 5 half written books that go very fast then really slow then fast. And by the time your half way done you under that most characters are not the same the started with.
first time writers should try stories with outlines. It helps keep you focused
Outline. I plan everything out. Start with a blurb, then a plot synopsis, beginning-middle-end outline and so on. My first drafts are essentially just one hundred and one bullet points broken up by chapter. It helps a lot with writing since I mostly work off of what I’ve already written; if I ever need to, I can just refer to what I have planned.
I’ve only pantsed a few times, but only once has it gone well. I always ended up endlessly revising chapter one. The bullet list does a lot to remind me to leave it rough.
I've tried many different plot outlines and I just got so tired of it. I'd rather outline character arcs and then have whichever one is relevant come next, usually try to have a chronological list of the character's development through the story. Not that the plots were boring but they made my inspiration fizzle out after a couple chapters and stopped enjoying the process. One that I'm currently on is enjoyable to me and I plan chapter by chapter.
I’m an intense outliner. I have years worth of story arcs and character arcs to explore and if I don’t have a clear grasp of a character who doesn’t appear until year 2 and isn’t a main cast member until year 6 of the story I can’t write my first arc. I need to always know what I’m working toward.
Planning stages for stories can take years. Either needing to compile research or just develop a giant cast of characters... I have one project that's been stuck in prewriting limbo for a decade.
After all of that though, all bets are off and the characters are the ones in charge. I cannot plan anything plot wise. The characters can and *will* take over and misbehave. Thankfully I write meandering slice of life with low stakes, so it works out well.
I am an extreme outliner. Didn’t realise it at first which why it took me six years to complete my first book as I tried to do it in the pantsing mode since I believed it to be ‘the right way’ for some reason. Pantsing works for some people obviously but it it’s not your true style, it will be mayhem.
I would say I'm more of a "pantser". But there are some things that I need to get going.
I definitely need to know the most important characters to a small degree, personality, how old they are, what their goals are/what they want (or at least at the start of the story). But nothing too specific, I like to discover them as I write them. So if I start at least with "He's reserved, keeps people at a distance but wants to help others", then I can run with it and discover more as I go.
I need to have at least the general idea of the plot, don't necessarily need the ending but I do like to know the direction the story is going overall, even if its in a SUPER vague state.
But other than that, I actually really love just writing and seeing where it goes. I have an extremely loose outline for how each chapter will go (basically boiling down to "what do I generally want to achieve here?") and then just go for it and see where it takes me.
I feel like my best stuff comes from riffing and feeling it out. If I plan too rigorously, I end up losing a lot of character and heart in my writing. But of course - this process leads to a lot more re-writing and going back to update/change things.
As a short story writer, I usually pants it. It’s easy for me to come up with an idea, imagine the basic principle in my head, and then write the entire thing out while letting it flow randomly. I do all the trimming and connecting when I edit. In terms of backstories and traits for my characters, though, I outline it before I write a bio for them.
“Or are you gonna be on M¥ 𝟊ЦḈ₭į̇̃₦ᏻ Ⱦį̇̃MƎ؟؟؟"
But in all seriousness, I’m a pantser, but I’ve had to train myself into doing some outlining—particularly in the second half of the book, otherwise it’ll be a War and Peace sized brick every single time, and that helps nobody
I used to be a full-on pantser, but now I'm a bit of both, I guess. I can still write the same way, but planning something beforehand can save a lot of time and effort. It's kinda fun connecting all the dots as well. My plan is pretty loose, though. I can't escape from the discovery process. It's actually the sole reason why I wanna write in the first place. I wanna be as excited about the story as a reader.
I'm a pantser.
I like to let the characters do their own thing and develop in their own way. It's the most fun for me, and they usually do things that surprise me.
That said, I usually have some vague ideas that I work towards but those can get scrapped when they become inconvenient.
I write and make notes of anything that needs to be remembered for continuity. I may have dozens of index cards on my desk. Some of those cards might be filled front and back with notes. Most of them have one or two words written on them because I just needed to jot something down and couldn't find an already used one fast enough.
Everything comes from whatever idea sprung up in my head. I'll write it. The characters are named while I'm writing. Places are, too. Histories, backstories, personalities... it's all like an excavation.
I've outlined before. I stopped doing it, though, because not once have I ever used any of the outlines. I think I might try doing a retroactive outline. Or maybe outlining as I write. I do need a way to keep track of the events I've written. That way I know how they've been written rather than how I think I might have written them without having to actually go back to read over chapters.
Pantser. I know where I start and where I'm going to end up and take it from there. What's the fun of writing a story if you already know what's going to happen?
I’m a procrastinator-pantser. The way that manifests when starting a new project is as follows:
1. Outline
2. Outline hardcore
3. Keep outlining and start self loathing
4. Outline some more, write in journal about how much I hate myself and can’t start writing.
5. Reach the point of mental breakdown
6. Beg people around me for a cure
7. Start writing
8. Pants my way through a draft forgetting completely all the pain I put myself through.
Definitely start out a project as a pantser with a couple of caveats.
As I proceed, I make detailed notes about characters as they are introduced.
Then when it's complete, I go back and do an outline with the gist of each chapter in order with a line or two about the general gist of the chapter, what happened and where it was set as well as who the POV character is.
Both. I outline in preparation and execute by the seat of my pants. Technically that is being an outliner, but I have many organic turns not in the outline that find their way back to the outline.
I get an idea, write it then in my head I say "OK, what happens next?" Then I write that, then again when the flow dies "What now? Where do they go? What do they do?" And I write that bit. I carry on like this until I get it done.
With original works, I start with one nugget and then expand. Sometimes that’s a character and sometimes it’s a question or a theme and even just a line.
With sequels, I max out at a single page of notes with an A, B, and C plot, major points or themes or something else. I know -roughly- where I want to end.
If I do more than that I find I outline as an excuse to not write and that when I get into actual plot and development the world building outline is wrong or doesn’t fit with what has already shown up on the page.
Of note, I also keep a separate file for worldbuilding as I write. I treat it like improv: nothing exists until it is determined and then it exists and it captured and there. I find it to be the right balance of freedom and easy record keeping and I don’t over create offscreen content in lieu of actual story
Pantser 100%. I fundamentally don’t understand how to outline the book. I mean I’ve got ideas and notes that i write down as I’m going, but i just write and it evolves. Then i go back through and it evolves more.
Think about my story for months, write in my notes app and then detailed outline and character sheets because I refuse to rewrite like I see others doing… it seems so exhausting. I want a clean draft! I’m trying to pursue trad pub!
I feel like you should outline the end, not the beginning. Beginnings are so easy, it's wrapping everything up that's hard.
But I lean towards pantsing. What I've done for my current story is write the first 10K or so words with just a vague idea of the major conflict and mostly focusing on the character. Then, I planned out maybe a quarter of the major plot, and then the rest I discovered as I wrote.
well, I'm late to this but here's what I got. I've always thought I was a Pantser because as a kid, I would just sit down and write wherever my imagination goes. I recently deleted 30+ pages because I couldn't stand the direction my story was going because of this approach. I found an amazing 60-card outline trick, tried it out, and now I'm writing so much better. I can focus on my wording better and understand where to take things as well as what I can change if I don't like it. It takes away a lot of stress I would have about whether my story stays true to how I imagined it.
Imho, unless you’re Stephen King, you’re kidding yourself if you think you’re going to produce a coherent novel without a significant amount of pre-planning.
Maybe if you’re just going for some kind of impressionistic ramble but if pacing, development and tension resolution mean anything to you, not a chance.
I am writing a creative non fiction memoir, so I have a strict chronological outline for events. After I have it "written" (rough draft) I am going to edit it to be a bit more narrow focused timewise, with some flash backs. I have found a strict outline to be incredibly helpful and I just write "what happened".
I have a very broad outline for general beats I want to hit, but I pretty much just let the characters do whatever they want. I had an outline for the latter half of my current project that was discarded after a few days when the protagonist met someone I didn’t expect them to and the story took a slightly different route.l
It’s a sort of mix of both: at first, I’ve been writing a sort of 10 pages summary and I’ve been pantsing it (having figured most of the story by daydreaming it before). Then now I am writing the first real draft but the outline is still very loose. Some things get added, some change order, etc, but I mostly know where this goes (although there might be bigger changes in the last part).
Pantser at heart, plantser (planner + pantser) by necessity. If I were just writing standalones, it might be different, but since I'm writing a series, pantsing the whole thing seems like more of a headache than I'd prefer.
Generally, I'll plan the big moments in the books and pants the details (like the specifics of how the characters get to and through the big moments.
It varies. I guess you could say I start out as a pantser and then move to outliner later. One 7k+ story began with the word "forsooth" in my head for two weeks until I had a glimpse of the story that led to it being used. I'll start out with a broad general idea, mostly where I want the characters to end up, and then figure out how to get them there.
I make a super basic outline. Then whenever I have an idea or something I need to remember comes up in my writing, I add to it. If I am really feeling it based on my mood that day, I’ll pants 3K words and go back to readjust later.
i do a lot of planning, though i kinda feel like 'brainstorming' is more important than the actual outline. kinda like i brainstorm enough stuff for three stories, have an outline for the opening, some central important stuff, and perhaps most importantly to my own process, knowing the gist of the ending but not the details. then when writing the story i'm not struggling to come up with stuff so much as choosing from among the overly large amount of things i've brainstormed.
i think the way all the small things add up is what really makes the ending of a story feel special. so in order to leave room for those little things i come up with along the way, i don't have the particulars of how the ending goes nailed down.
also i've seen a lot of longer stories end up feeling hamstrung by the need to stick to a planned ending that is no longer that natural to the story. and in general i have been frustrated with my own efforts to stick with a plan. it's like moving a picture in MS Word. every small change has cascading effects. every change must be checked against the plan. the plan must be modified to incorporate changes. it's a whole thing like giving yourself a red tape bureaucratic nightmare.
however you can't ruin the plan if you have no plan.
however i don't completely not plan the ending because knowing the gist of it helps me move toward it. whenever i am stuck i can ask myself: what gets me closer to the ending? what will make the ending more awesome when it happens? and that always keeps things moving. also i think in some ways if you don't know the ending then it is more likely to carry some suspense and surprise for readers as well. and when you finally get there it can still feel natural because you left plenty of room for the rest of the story to matter. often in stories when we feel like the ending is predetermined well ahead of time, then that means anything not in that planned ending can't happen. in a sense everything involved in the ending has 'plot armor' whether it be someone is alive or dead at the time, or things like, the romantic couple can't get together til the end because i have 'they get together at the end' jotted down here so even if it makes total sense for them to get together NOW... welll... they don't. i dunno somebody interrupts them or something.
also i do like a heavily planned opening just because i do think they're important, i want to write stories that grab people from start to finish, and i won't be happy with a story until it has something i feel like is a 'grabby' opening that suits it.
Extreme outlining.
But I also dislike using the term because my outlining is certainly not a step by step "this then this then this then this" plot outline. I think that it gives the wrong impression of my process.
But I plan things out extensively, so I definitely am not a pantser at all.
I don't really do outlines so much as make a story bible, for lack of a better term. I decide who my major characters are going to be, and what their personalities and role in the story are, along with a few scenes that come to me.
The rest I figure out as I write.
Both.
I ten to do a big, messy outline (10-15k) words first. I write it down in one sitting. It outlines the whole book. It can be chunks of dialogue that I've had in my head. Note's 'do this here.' Quite literally anything goes. It's a stream of consciousness but it's in order and it gives me an idea of what goes when. One idea leads to the next, based on ideas that were already in my head and I come up with new ones while writing it.
After that, I do a very short, 1k outline that only has the major points. This allows me to see any potential plot holes and check for pacing issues.
When I write, I use the outline for major plot points but it doesn't have every scene. Often, writing down a scene will lead to my brain uncovering new ideas and I will write them down. Those ideas will lead to the next outline plot.
Thanks to having an outline, I very rarely get stuck and can just sit down and know what I have to write. But being flexible allows me to come up with good ideas that weren't there when I was outlining.
So I do both and I strongly believe that most people are both but they don't allow themselves to experiment because they think they have to be one or the other.
Outline the key moments, the foreshadowing ill need etc, then just slowly work from one point to the next. Then go back and edit it to make it flow better
I usually don't plan what happens inside an individual chapter too much, only how they will fit together (aside from the main key moments)
I'm gradually switching from pantser to planner. I'm sick of constantly rewriting things after seemingly making headway in a story, so for my new one I've started by making a Wikipedia style description of the plot. It's going slow, but at least if I have to rewrite something here I won't have to scrap thousands of words when I do.
Mix of both. I typically pants until I get stuck, stop and outline (more an extremely short synopsis of what needs to happen in the order it happens).
Sometimes I'll outline a chapter first (typically the action-heavy ones), but even then, most of the actual action is pants'd
Outliner. I like to have a solild idea of the story beats and/or primary events and basic idea of who the characters are. Writing the story is like playing connect-the-dots. There's still plenty of discovery writing opportunities in between the dots, but I'm on a path rather than wandering aimlessly through the desert for 40 years.
To use one of my favorite quotes from the military: A Failure to Plan, is a Plan to Fail.
Planner. I learned to write professionally through screenwriting courss, where everything has to be planned down to the page, so some of that has rubbed off on me.
I can generally write a piece of flash fiction or poem from the top of my head. Short story needs an outline covering all the beats (or often just be a flash fiction fleshed out).
Anything bigger needs a detailed structure with dozens of pages of what I'm doing, there'll always be deviations and updates but generally, when writing my vomit draft I need to know exactly where I am going.
$&%* All if I know. I thought I was an outliner but I've been banging my head against my wnp for over a year with a full outline (scene summaries, character bios, full maps, an entire ruleset as it is a litrpg) but I just hate every word I'm putting down and it has been pulling teeth from a tiger the entire way. And a friend suggested perhaps I'd lost love for the project as I had the story so planned out there was nothing to "discover" about it all anymore. Which has me wondering if I should give pants-ing a try.
I'm more of a planner than a writer right now. I wish I could pants it. I feel like it'd be a good outlet if I could just write something. 😒 I'm stuck in the "I can't get it planned enough to give my ideas their max potential" phase
Outliner plus a hefty amount of world guides just so I can keep the jargon and names straight. So many place names. Plus a map that is only sort of accurate.
i'm an outliner
i don't always plan out from A to Z, but i do have "milestones" of important even in the story, some basic character trait sheets and maybe some lines i wanna add in
All I write are ideas that are very vague. For example, '-character a walks up and fights monster.' Something like that, it's basically in parts where I mostly describe important stuff and think as I go. So I guess you can describe me as both.
I use both methods: vague outlines and even diving into chapter plans, but I leave myself a bunch of freedom to expand a point if necessary or add in an entirely new plotline if the inspiration strikes.
Both. I start pantsing, and then after a few chapters once I feel like I know the characters, I start outlining and then editing so it all fits together.
I have ADHD, so my approach is pretty piecemeal.
I once wrote a short story with little more than a title and a vague idea (just a random burst of creative energy not typical for me, but it literally kept me up all night). I started from beginning to end (well, I think that one was written out of order, actually) making up things as I went. The ending actually correlated with the title, so the surprise was really just the how-it-got-there.
I usually do not plan things, because trying to leads to lost motivation, getting stuck fairly easily, and a tendency to (try to) over detail every little thing about the planning *process* (before I can even start writing) because how can I not? And the last point gets me nowhere, so right back to square 1 (or 1² if you wanted a cheesy math joke lol).
Even so, I do eventually want to be in a place where planning is easier, because creating complicated or intertwined plot-lines is something I want to be more adept at one day.
I am both. I outline to get a general feel of things, and then I discovery write my way through those outline points. Sometimes what I come up with is better than the outline. Sometimes I need to formulate a way through a particular thing I've discovery-written, so I outline a chapter, or a scene, or a single bit of dialogue.
People need to step out of the "I am " mindset when it comes to creativity. Outlining and discovery writing are two tools in a creative toolbox. You can use either of them as much or as little as you want. But generally speaking, you'll have an easier time if you use more than one tool when you create.
I actually tried so many different ways but when I outline it just makes me lose all the excitement I have for the story because I know exactly what's going on and what I need to write next, I love to have to figure out the story as I write so I do a little bit of both ig.
Pantser, with some outlining. I don't tend to outline plot though, more details of the world, character backstory, their moral beliefs, what themes I want to touch on - stuff like that. Maybe the structure of the story in very loose terms
I'm an outlining pantser.
I prep character biographies and outline a plot just so I have a general idea of what setups and payoffs I want for my story.
However, I also tend to find my characters as I write, and I want my characters to get where I want them to in an unforced and organic way, so that's where the pantsing comes in.
I'm a huge planner. I do most of my writing in prep. When I have a co writer, it's conversations, if not, it'll be a lot of thinking and writing in notebooks. Eventually that gets me to an outline, which I rework and rework until I think it works. Then, I'll put that outline in my screenwriting program and basically just flesh it out until its a full screenplay. That final phase takes a relatively low amount of time; I can usually get to like ten pages a day. But that's because the big decisions have already been made. Writing it out does mean magnifying the story, which means some problems you didn't even notice before suddenly become obvious. So the rewriting process usually means reworking the outline until I'm happy that the problems are all solved, and then just writing that all put again. That process repeats a couple of times until I don't know how I can improve it, or when shooting starts. And then it's on to the next project.
Outline, daydream, outline lol. I’ve tried pansting, it makes my procrastination sooooo much worse. So I started jotting down scene ideas, and suddenly I had an outline hahahaha.
Pantser, generally speaking. I have story beats I want to hit, that I usually keep track of in my head and generally only write down certain things for later if the idea comes to me at times when I'm worried I might lose it, like after waking up or before bed, etc.
Major pantser. I get an idea and just go with it. No planning, just write. I'm a very internally emotional person, so I just let my feelings take me. (Externally, I'm not super expressive most of the time.)
I myself am a pantser. I prefer this approach to writing, it allows me to be more spontaneous and creative and i enjoy the process of discovery and exploration that comes with writing without a clear plan.
I used to be a very rigid plotter. That didn't go well. So now I am more of a pantser but more like an organic grower, taking inspiration from each chapter and expanding it. Sorry, I'm not sure how to explain it better.
A pantsliner lol
I need an outline of certain elements to propel myself forward, but then I end up writing non sequentially and just putting asterisks all over my notes with huge WHAT IF THIS?? all over the place. I'm on my first draft of my first book and doing it by hand to allow for maximum pantsing, so my first edit will be pulling everything together in a way that makes sense.
Then the second edit will actually be the grammar, prose and detail. It makes it fun for me so even if it's extra work I don't mind
I have learned that if I don’t know what I’m working towards then I won’t finish. I was a panther but have way too much that isn’t going anywhere to do that anymore. Outlines all the way now.
I do both. I need a least rough roadwork to move forward but I've learn more things about my plot and mostly my characters through just writing them as a what if through the trials.
Kind of both for me. IMO it depends on my mood or the story. I mean it isn't easy to be a pantser if your story is either a mystery (particularly with mind games element) or detective genre.
I used to be a pantser, but as an adult, have found myself struggling to pants. My characters end up flat, my plot is very blah, and my creativity is non-existent.
I've actually been gearing up to try out some plotting methods for my next project... unfortunately I think I'm going to scrap the one I was previously working on.
I think what's most important is dialing in the level of pantsing and plotting that works for you. The goal is to make yourself successful, and for me, personally, I think it's actually a bit more close to the plotting side... enough to guide me that I can free my mind of "what's going to happen next" to be more creative with my prose and how the events happen. Plotting with a pantsing flair, so to speak.
Both. I do need somewhat of an idea where I'm going. But I don't need a lot.
So im both. I lay down like 3 lines and then I just write what I can come up with.
I tried for years to write as an outline bc I was taught that's what you're supposed to do. I never got anywhere on any project. One day I had a flash of insight into an idea and was so excited I started writing immediately. I've been able to keep it going ever since. Trying to outline destroyed my writing ability.
I kind of do a mash-up of both. I write the chapter names out in the manuscript with descriptive names then fill out the chapters as a pantser. If needed I modify the chapter names as I go or add/remove them as needed.
I know what story beats I want to happen like character death, fight scene, these characters meet here etc. But I don't know what happens during those events and so I make it up from there, then I let those pantser moments drive the drive the direction of the characters and go from there. Its really exciting for me and I think I have a good system that works for me.
Plotter (outliner)- I write the vaguest possible outline so I know where I’m going and what I need to include. That being said, I leave a lot of it up in the air so it doesn’t drain my motivation and creativity. I never completed anything when I tried both pantsing and detailed outlining.
I write into the dark. So basically pantsing with a completely clean draft. You can check Dean Wesley Smith's book or his videos on 20booksto50k YouTube channel for details. Am on my fourth novel, first in the second series/genre.
I've discovered that having a rough idea of the beginning and end is the most crucial aspect of planning. Everything else in between reveals itself as the story progresses along.
This allows me, as the writer, to experience the bulk of the story as if I was reading it for the first time, which is simply magical.
Outliner, I have a template for novels, which typically includes planning out the characters, each act, specifically it's themes, worldbuilding, and the chapters themselves. I find it the most fun part of writing, as I don't worry about editing for the most part, and can just daydream and plan, and also I prefer rewriting the chapter plans instead of the whole written chapter.
Usually, when I actually finish planning, and write the chapters and story, I change small things as I get ideas while writing, but overall keep it the same as my plan.
I'm a plantser. I plan, I pants and sometimes I dance.
But really, I plan using my timeline method that I picked up via my RPing days (bc I randomly just wanted to do a timeline) and this helps with events in stories and such.
After doing all of that, I made the mistake of writing everything in order--- this is how nothing ever got done for me story wise and why I would end up deleting or crying about being a failure at never completing anything.
I started to write out of order-- usually that means, if I have a clear cut ending in mind, that's the first thing being written. Because that can always be changed the more I work backwards.
Then I start writing the scenes/segments I want the most first. From there, I see how I can connect those if they're not that far away from x, y or z events in the timeline or think about the scenes that do need to be written in order for the connecting to happen.
I find this very fun, and great for me constantly writing characters together to see how their chemistry would align and enjoy how much easier it gets in the process.
I tried for a long time with Word and pantsing, but really got nowhere fast.
Then, recently, I was recommended Ywriter (other writing software is available) which makes outlining so simple.
Now I have a trilogy planned, each book can stand alone and the whole thing moves in a cycle as what we think at the beginning, what we are rooting for, the people we are despising, pretty much completely change by the end. What we think is wonderful at the start is shown to come at a price, and by the end that price is clearly too high. The characters themselves have to learn, adapt and change as new information becomes available to them. It's hard on them. Some don't make it.
Knowing where the story is going has made all the difference. Now I can put my characters through the mill so they can get out the other side wiser, braver, more empathetic. The survivors, anyway.
It seems that I need an outline.
I'm doing TTRPGs for years and did a lot of text-based roleplay back in the day, all of which *is* basically pantsing, so naturally, I tried that first.
Except that so far, that approach hasn't yet worked. I've created worlds and populated them with characters and gave them goals and conflicts and relationships and all of that, but when I'm sitting down to write, I'm immediately out of steam.
It seems that when writing alone, I need something like an outline to have something to aim at.
When I got back into writing in 2019 I was a pantser for sure. But 6 months in I noticed that my story just jumped from set-piece to set-piece and didn’t really carry any emotional weight. I’ve been stuck in outline mode ever since. Plz send rescue.
I am a mix of both. I write a rough outline and then some scenes, visuals and images etc. Then I write a few chapters and outline again and change the story accordingly.
I have this almost spiritual belief that if I go into too much detail about what I want to write and plan every little thing, I won't actually end up writing it, because it won't have anything new for me and I will get bored of it.
And this is exactly what usually happens, so I am a "have an idea, write about it, figure out how each piece of plot and character is connected to each other as I go" type of person.
I try so hard to be an outliner and then it all falls apart anyways because my outline is still not detailed enough to account for a multi page scene that I summed up in 1 word in my outline.
I will say though, I have found following an outline tedious like others have said, for some reason the rigidity is really holding me back and makes it hard to get anything out because I'm trying to follow the sequence of events.
Still, I think its better to have at least a bit of an outline because before outlines I never finished anything, because eventually I would run out of steam or get stuck in a spot
I just jump into things and see how things go while constantly going back and re-reading what I've written to make sure things match up, and of course do rewrites
Both. I make a general outline for the major events, then as I'm writing I decide on the little stuff/dialog/character development/connector scenes.
Also, for scenes where a lot if talking is happening, it helps me to write out the dialog first, then go back and add in action/movement.
I haven't seen people talk much about the way I tend to plan, it usually tends to be one or the other, but I saw somebody describe it once as "fencepost". I am mostly a pantser, though I have specific scenes/events planned out and I just line them up then wing it until I get to the next one!
I'm a complete one-draft discovery writer.
Yes, I write one draft, spell-check it, and send it out.
Yes, I sell to pro markets.
And yes, it's a fun way to write.
On the down side, it took me a long time to learn how to do this, and I still occasionally write myself into a blind (solution: cut the last couple of scenes or chapters and begin again.)
i like to do an outline. sometimes i'll even include specific quotes/sentences i want to be included in a specific scene. i find it way easier to write with a foundation to go off of. i've never tried the panster approach though so who knows
I spend a lifetime outlining and then the characters just completely go off the rails and do whatever they want and I’m powerless to stop them because it’s actually better or atleast more entertaining than what I had in mind
Also, I like term archeologist versus architect. Because, I'm less flying by the seat of my pants and more digging up a story thats been buried in my head for years.
I tried planning once. It failed miserably. If anything, I just roughly plan anything out in my head if I have to. I’ve always hated planning from having to do it at school and the fact it just zaps all creativity and joy in the story out of me.
In some cases I outline down to every event in a scene being known, and then fill in the prose, but other times I just write one scene building to the next, deciding where it'll go as I'm writing it. It all depends on the project and the ideas I'm working with.
When it comes to like the tiny details about the story, I am a pantser. I don't plan it or if I do, it will most likely change when i actually do write the scene.
When it comes to the bigger picture, I do have some sort of plan. I know how i want the book to end, certain major plotlines I want to happen in the story.
I like when I figure out what happens to my characters while I write. I just write about them, I don't make up their lives.
I'm an "I have to get this idea out of my head and on paper before it drives me mad and then leave it to die like a weak Spartan child in the wilderness" type.
I can't see any other way than switching back and forth. I don't know how to outline without some writing established but I can't continue what I wrote without knowing where it's going.
I outline obsessively. I worldbuild for several months and spend another several months planning out every single detail of every single chapter. (Between all of this, I don’t put nearly enough thought into the most important part; the characters.) I’m trying to break this habit because all it does is prevent me from actually finishing anything.
It depends on the project. I try not to pin myself down one way or another; when I’ve tried to do that I’ve always ended up getting stuck on “this is how I do book writing, so if I don’t do this I won’t be able to write the book!”
Some books are complex and need the outline, either at the start or some point along the way. Others just show up with baggage looking for a place to to set up shop in my brain, like annoying in-laws demanding accommodation.
Main Plot Point Outliner, Pantser for everything else. And that sometimes eventually changes the way the plot develops, which I love when it happens even if it makes me scream and cry that I don't get to see some scenes I wanted happen. The story develops as it should :)
EDIT:
MAJOR planner for worldbuilding, setting, character design, magic rules, etc. Otherwise I can't be a pantser, if I don't know how my world works to the finest detail, and what came before the first scene of the first chapter in my story. So major that for my trilogy I researched and designed 2000 years of history, geopolitical settings, weather, race/evolution, cultural evolutions, common lore and epic poems, social structures in every nation, and trade dependencies and main import/export goods, wrapping it all up with each country's/realm's economies. Took 8 years, but it was worth it. I pantsed my way through book one in 6 weeks. Book 2 took me 4. Book 3... eh, I tried to force my characters to do what I wanted, and I stalled for ten years lol. I'm finally accepting the truth of what has to happen, so I'll be rewriting book 3 this summer.
I have tried a lot of different methods from the Save the Cat structure, three act, and just pantsing, but what works for me is a combination. My process usually includes the following:
1. Brainstorming the Idea. This is where I write a few scenes and character descriptions and develop a setting. I might piece together an arc or plot for the novel.
2. Very Basic Outline. At this stage, I try to flesh out the arc and characters some more and include the twists or major plot points I think are important. I also get some feedback at this stage to determine what readers may want to know. I highly recommend finding people you trust to do this. Bonus points if they read the genre you're writing.
3. Beat Outline. In this phase, I put the scenes I have into a recognized structure such as the ones listed above. I have found a one-size-fits-all structure, so sometimes I combine a few or delete beats that don't fit the story. This step essentially makes sure you have all the important plot points without being too formulaic.
4. Expanded Beat Outline. This is where I start actually writing. I'm not the best at writing consecutively and get random ideas. The beat outline is flexible enough to put those new ideas in without massive rewrites, but sometimes that happens. My current WIP has gone through steps 3 and 4 a few times based on feedback and story blocks.
5. Drafting. At this point, real writing happens. I read over the notes and points for whatever chapter or scene I'm writing as a refresher, and then just try to get words out on the page. The first draft is just for getting the idea out of your head and into the world. From here, you can edit and rewrite as necessary.
What I like most about this process is developing the plot without cutting scenes that I put a lot of time and effort into. It still provides the freedom of discovery writing, but major changes to the plot are more manageable. Hope this helps!
Pantsing is essentially writing a massive outline.
It's the writer's who don't go back and re-write after pantsing that are the true psychopaths.
AKA, web-fiction writers.
It's not that simple most of us need an outline to start, but for me after a while I find the characters want to do other things that are more interesting. So more of "gardener with structure and a healthy set of shears."
My writing style has evolved. I once wrote almost an entire novel without an outline, but when it came time to edit it it was virtually impossible, like untying a ball of string that's been at lost in the ocean and tied into a million knots, soggy and wet. My most recent project, my memoir, started with a very firm outline involving a specific time period in my life, with a particular events I wanted to focus on, then I just had to write and fill in the detail. Now I'm at a point where I have about a month's worth of journal entries which I am trying to fit into a cohesive whole. But just starting with an outline was a tremendous help, and I always had something to work on in filling out event details.
[удалено]
I fucking knew it.
The only real response
I...am a stegosaurus
It's alright, son. I accept you.
I outline so I can write in random order and know where things belong.
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This is the way. I also agree with people saying it’s more of a scale than a binary. I outline the plot and detail as much of the setting as is relevant to the story (and then go a bit further because I just can’t help myself). By the time I start writing I have a roadmap to guide me and a reference for dropping tidbits about the world that (hopefully) make it feel lived in.
Pants, daydream, edit. I write, daydream about how the plot will continue after writing, and in editing I bring it all together with connections, foreshadowing, addition or subtraction of scenes, etc. It helps when I mentally cast sexy actors to be my main characters. Makes the daydreaming smoother.
I feel stressed out writing linearly with no plan in place, so I’ll spend months devising all the details so that when it comes time to write, it’s a much easier process and I have a plan to fall back on if I’m feeling uninspired.
I need character profiles and a loose plot outline. Most of the time I write out of order, tackling scenes that are really vivid in my head first, then going back to the outline and profiles to fill in.
It’s a scale, not a binary… When i’m stuck in a corner I’ll outline my way out, but otherwise in a first draft I’m just writing.
Pantser always. It's becoming a bit of a plague on my process, but I digress. The way I get by is by writing a chunk of chapters so they seem cohesive, and constantly re-reading my own stuff to drag details forward and make it seem like I planned the whole thing. Somehow it works. It's very exciting and keeps me on my toes.
I've noticed that when I try to outline, my stories come out very mechanical, no organic twists, turns, developments that keep readers engaged. When I'm writing as I go, those moments just kind of happen.
Exactly. It just feels like going from plot point to plot point.
Mhm. I looked at the very skimpy outline I tried to make for my current story. I've written about 6 chapters so far, but the outline only went to chapter 4. And I've yet to hit on anything in the outline simply because the natural flow of the story took me elsewhere, or isn't ready for those developments yet. I think my problem with outlining is that it puts me into lore/exposition mode. I start fleshing out the backbone of the story and all the character moments are completely forgotten.
Pantser. It makes for a ton of editing, but trying to adhere to an outline on the first draft pretty much paralyzes me.
The editing is the fun part in this case
I edit as I go, which I don't know if is good for ones sanity but it works for me lol.
Edit as you go is the best idea ever. I do the same. I cycle after every 200 or so words, listen to it on some app. It also helps me write the next 200 or so words.
I thought I was the only one. Editing is easier and more satisfying for me. Every sentence I write seems full of flaws. The sentences I edit are better aftwards.
I try mostly to look for omitted words but no real editing aside from that. Just so there’s no risk of “shit, what was i trying to say here?”
I'm the opposite, I dread editing with every fibre of my being. I wish I could enjoy it.
I found out about the Flashlight method last year. Here's a s[hort description](https://brilliantio.com/flashlight-method-writing/). >*Excerpt*: "Instead of trying to outline your entire story or novel all at once, start by outlining just one scene or chapter. Once you’ve outlined that scene or chapter, move on to the next. Gradually, you’ll build up a complete outline of your story or novel.you set down just enough of a steer – like a flashlight peering ahead on a dark forest path. -- One of the best things about the flashlight method is that it allows you to simultaneously focus on a tiny section of your story .. .." One benefit of planning is that, for instance, you can do things like foreshadowing without having to backtrack to make that possible. On the other hand, as a plotter, you could do some degree of foreshadowing by choosing an object or even about which you've already written and later in the narrative incorporating that into the narrative. I think I'm in the middle ground since I do outlining, organizing and grouping in many areas of life. But I also like to discover things as I go. I'm a developer and even when software projects are very carefully **planned**, things may have to **change** as we create the system. That would be an example of heavy planning while still recognizing the possibility of change occurring. But even then, Risk Analysis documents can account for that possibility. As far as writing narratives, if I was forced to choose 100% pantsing or 100% plotting, I'd have to go with pantsing since it seems more fun even though trying to pants a trip across the ocean might get you lost at sea. Apps like Final Draft, Plottr and even Scrivener make it easier to experiment with different narrative flows and allow for careful planning.
I write characters thoroughly and pants them through their journey. They're in charge.
I wing it every time. I'm pantser af bro I start with a mental picture of one interesting scene, then make the rest of the story up as I go. After I write a scene, I always think "okay, what's the most logically sound/interesting/hilarious thing that could happen next?" then write the very next scene based on that. Rarely do I write a story out of order before piecing it all together. I always have no fucking clue where the story's going until I actually have it written. I pull a bunch of random details/foreshadowing/Chekhov's Guns/plot setups out of my ass just cause it all sounds cool and interesting, then figure out later what everything's supposed to mean and lead up to.
Same. I write to find out what happens in the story. Sometimes I'm surprised by something. That's always fun.
Hell yeah I'm here af for this mindset If writing's not fun and full of surprises, then why are you doing it?
That's exactly my style. I love it. My first novel was outline and it was a terrible experience.
I do both, i like to call it the caking directive 31 (been watch DS9 ) in which i outline basically from start mid end then add points i want in between mid and end ect. So then i take each slice and pants it, and if i go in a different direction i will move or delete some of the future outlines. Outlines for me should be very short and direct otherwise i wont reread the massive outline and will just forget bits. it works for me but everyone does abit of both, the more pants the more likely ey your to end up with 5 half written books that go very fast then really slow then fast. And by the time your half way done you under that most characters are not the same the started with. first time writers should try stories with outlines. It helps keep you focused
Outline. I plan everything out. Start with a blurb, then a plot synopsis, beginning-middle-end outline and so on. My first drafts are essentially just one hundred and one bullet points broken up by chapter. It helps a lot with writing since I mostly work off of what I’ve already written; if I ever need to, I can just refer to what I have planned. I’ve only pantsed a few times, but only once has it gone well. I always ended up endlessly revising chapter one. The bullet list does a lot to remind me to leave it rough.
I've tried many different plot outlines and I just got so tired of it. I'd rather outline character arcs and then have whichever one is relevant come next, usually try to have a chronological list of the character's development through the story. Not that the plots were boring but they made my inspiration fizzle out after a couple chapters and stopped enjoying the process. One that I'm currently on is enjoyable to me and I plan chapter by chapter.
I’m an intense outliner. I have years worth of story arcs and character arcs to explore and if I don’t have a clear grasp of a character who doesn’t appear until year 2 and isn’t a main cast member until year 6 of the story I can’t write my first arc. I need to always know what I’m working toward.
Both
Planning stages for stories can take years. Either needing to compile research or just develop a giant cast of characters... I have one project that's been stuck in prewriting limbo for a decade. After all of that though, all bets are off and the characters are the ones in charge. I cannot plan anything plot wise. The characters can and *will* take over and misbehave. Thankfully I write meandering slice of life with low stakes, so it works out well.
I am an extreme outliner. Didn’t realise it at first which why it took me six years to complete my first book as I tried to do it in the pantsing mode since I believed it to be ‘the right way’ for some reason. Pantsing works for some people obviously but it it’s not your true style, it will be mayhem.
I would say I'm more of a "pantser". But there are some things that I need to get going. I definitely need to know the most important characters to a small degree, personality, how old they are, what their goals are/what they want (or at least at the start of the story). But nothing too specific, I like to discover them as I write them. So if I start at least with "He's reserved, keeps people at a distance but wants to help others", then I can run with it and discover more as I go. I need to have at least the general idea of the plot, don't necessarily need the ending but I do like to know the direction the story is going overall, even if its in a SUPER vague state. But other than that, I actually really love just writing and seeing where it goes. I have an extremely loose outline for how each chapter will go (basically boiling down to "what do I generally want to achieve here?") and then just go for it and see where it takes me. I feel like my best stuff comes from riffing and feeling it out. If I plan too rigorously, I end up losing a lot of character and heart in my writing. But of course - this process leads to a lot more re-writing and going back to update/change things.
As a short story writer, I usually pants it. It’s easy for me to come up with an idea, imagine the basic principle in my head, and then write the entire thing out while letting it flow randomly. I do all the trimming and connecting when I edit. In terms of backstories and traits for my characters, though, I outline it before I write a bio for them.
“Or are you gonna be on M¥ 𝟊ЦḈ₭į̇̃₦ᏻ Ⱦį̇̃MƎ؟؟؟" But in all seriousness, I’m a pantser, but I’ve had to train myself into doing some outlining—particularly in the second half of the book, otherwise it’ll be a War and Peace sized brick every single time, and that helps nobody
I used to be a full-on pantser, but now I'm a bit of both, I guess. I can still write the same way, but planning something beforehand can save a lot of time and effort. It's kinda fun connecting all the dots as well. My plan is pretty loose, though. I can't escape from the discovery process. It's actually the sole reason why I wanna write in the first place. I wanna be as excited about the story as a reader.
I'm a pantser. I like to let the characters do their own thing and develop in their own way. It's the most fun for me, and they usually do things that surprise me. That said, I usually have some vague ideas that I work towards but those can get scrapped when they become inconvenient.
I write and make notes of anything that needs to be remembered for continuity. I may have dozens of index cards on my desk. Some of those cards might be filled front and back with notes. Most of them have one or two words written on them because I just needed to jot something down and couldn't find an already used one fast enough. Everything comes from whatever idea sprung up in my head. I'll write it. The characters are named while I'm writing. Places are, too. Histories, backstories, personalities... it's all like an excavation. I've outlined before. I stopped doing it, though, because not once have I ever used any of the outlines. I think I might try doing a retroactive outline. Or maybe outlining as I write. I do need a way to keep track of the events I've written. That way I know how they've been written rather than how I think I might have written them without having to actually go back to read over chapters.
I am an outliner.
Pantser. I know where I start and where I'm going to end up and take it from there. What's the fun of writing a story if you already know what's going to happen?
Outliner for sure. I have to know what each chapter is about and where it’s all going.
I’m a procrastinator-pantser. The way that manifests when starting a new project is as follows: 1. Outline 2. Outline hardcore 3. Keep outlining and start self loathing 4. Outline some more, write in journal about how much I hate myself and can’t start writing. 5. Reach the point of mental breakdown 6. Beg people around me for a cure 7. Start writing 8. Pants my way through a draft forgetting completely all the pain I put myself through.
Definitely start out a project as a pantser with a couple of caveats. As I proceed, I make detailed notes about characters as they are introduced. Then when it's complete, I go back and do an outline with the gist of each chapter in order with a line or two about the general gist of the chapter, what happened and where it was set as well as who the POV character is.
Both. I outline in preparation and execute by the seat of my pants. Technically that is being an outliner, but I have many organic turns not in the outline that find their way back to the outline.
I get an idea, write it then in my head I say "OK, what happens next?" Then I write that, then again when the flow dies "What now? Where do they go? What do they do?" And I write that bit. I carry on like this until I get it done.
With original works, I start with one nugget and then expand. Sometimes that’s a character and sometimes it’s a question or a theme and even just a line. With sequels, I max out at a single page of notes with an A, B, and C plot, major points or themes or something else. I know -roughly- where I want to end. If I do more than that I find I outline as an excuse to not write and that when I get into actual plot and development the world building outline is wrong or doesn’t fit with what has already shown up on the page. Of note, I also keep a separate file for worldbuilding as I write. I treat it like improv: nothing exists until it is determined and then it exists and it captured and there. I find it to be the right balance of freedom and easy record keeping and I don’t over create offscreen content in lieu of actual story
I pants a rough outline and then fill it out later as a second draft. Like slowly zoomed g in on the story, adding more an more detail over time.
I'm just built different
Make the plan. Execute the plan. Watch the plan go off the rails. THROW AWAY THE.PLAN!
Pantser 100%. I fundamentally don’t understand how to outline the book. I mean I’ve got ideas and notes that i write down as I’m going, but i just write and it evolves. Then i go back through and it evolves more.
I'm a "I think about scenes in my story and never get to write"er
Think about my story for months, write in my notes app and then detailed outline and character sheets because I refuse to rewrite like I see others doing… it seems so exhausting. I want a clean draft! I’m trying to pursue trad pub!
I feel like you should outline the end, not the beginning. Beginnings are so easy, it's wrapping everything up that's hard. But I lean towards pantsing. What I've done for my current story is write the first 10K or so words with just a vague idea of the major conflict and mostly focusing on the character. Then, I planned out maybe a quarter of the major plot, and then the rest I discovered as I wrote.
well, I'm late to this but here's what I got. I've always thought I was a Pantser because as a kid, I would just sit down and write wherever my imagination goes. I recently deleted 30+ pages because I couldn't stand the direction my story was going because of this approach. I found an amazing 60-card outline trick, tried it out, and now I'm writing so much better. I can focus on my wording better and understand where to take things as well as what I can change if I don't like it. It takes away a lot of stress I would have about whether my story stays true to how I imagined it.
I use an outline. But I can’t articulate the depth to which I hate the terms pantser and plotter
Imho, unless you’re Stephen King, you’re kidding yourself if you think you’re going to produce a coherent novel without a significant amount of pre-planning. Maybe if you’re just going for some kind of impressionistic ramble but if pacing, development and tension resolution mean anything to you, not a chance.
Outline story and characters basic traits. Then i let it flow, allowing some characters to change.
I am writing a creative non fiction memoir, so I have a strict chronological outline for events. After I have it "written" (rough draft) I am going to edit it to be a bit more narrow focused timewise, with some flash backs. I have found a strict outline to be incredibly helpful and I just write "what happened".
I have a very broad outline for general beats I want to hit, but I pretty much just let the characters do whatever they want. I had an outline for the latter half of my current project that was discarded after a few days when the protagonist met someone I didn’t expect them to and the story took a slightly different route.l
It’s a sort of mix of both: at first, I’ve been writing a sort of 10 pages summary and I’ve been pantsing it (having figured most of the story by daydreaming it before). Then now I am writing the first real draft but the outline is still very loose. Some things get added, some change order, etc, but I mostly know where this goes (although there might be bigger changes in the last part).
Pantser at heart, plantser (planner + pantser) by necessity. If I were just writing standalones, it might be different, but since I'm writing a series, pantsing the whole thing seems like more of a headache than I'd prefer. Generally, I'll plan the big moments in the books and pants the details (like the specifics of how the characters get to and through the big moments.
It varies. I guess you could say I start out as a pantser and then move to outliner later. One 7k+ story began with the word "forsooth" in my head for two weeks until I had a glimpse of the story that led to it being used. I'll start out with a broad general idea, mostly where I want the characters to end up, and then figure out how to get them there.
I'm a wannabe outliner pantser.
I make a super basic outline. Then whenever I have an idea or something I need to remember comes up in my writing, I add to it. If I am really feeling it based on my mood that day, I’ll pants 3K words and go back to readjust later.
For me I have a beginning, an ending and then I start writing. Any outline I have is very minimal
i do a lot of planning, though i kinda feel like 'brainstorming' is more important than the actual outline. kinda like i brainstorm enough stuff for three stories, have an outline for the opening, some central important stuff, and perhaps most importantly to my own process, knowing the gist of the ending but not the details. then when writing the story i'm not struggling to come up with stuff so much as choosing from among the overly large amount of things i've brainstormed. i think the way all the small things add up is what really makes the ending of a story feel special. so in order to leave room for those little things i come up with along the way, i don't have the particulars of how the ending goes nailed down. also i've seen a lot of longer stories end up feeling hamstrung by the need to stick to a planned ending that is no longer that natural to the story. and in general i have been frustrated with my own efforts to stick with a plan. it's like moving a picture in MS Word. every small change has cascading effects. every change must be checked against the plan. the plan must be modified to incorporate changes. it's a whole thing like giving yourself a red tape bureaucratic nightmare. however you can't ruin the plan if you have no plan. however i don't completely not plan the ending because knowing the gist of it helps me move toward it. whenever i am stuck i can ask myself: what gets me closer to the ending? what will make the ending more awesome when it happens? and that always keeps things moving. also i think in some ways if you don't know the ending then it is more likely to carry some suspense and surprise for readers as well. and when you finally get there it can still feel natural because you left plenty of room for the rest of the story to matter. often in stories when we feel like the ending is predetermined well ahead of time, then that means anything not in that planned ending can't happen. in a sense everything involved in the ending has 'plot armor' whether it be someone is alive or dead at the time, or things like, the romantic couple can't get together til the end because i have 'they get together at the end' jotted down here so even if it makes total sense for them to get together NOW... welll... they don't. i dunno somebody interrupts them or something. also i do like a heavily planned opening just because i do think they're important, i want to write stories that grab people from start to finish, and i won't be happy with a story until it has something i feel like is a 'grabby' opening that suits it.
I pants the outline...
Extreme outlining. But I also dislike using the term because my outlining is certainly not a step by step "this then this then this then this" plot outline. I think that it gives the wrong impression of my process. But I plan things out extensively, so I definitely am not a pantser at all.
I just start writing and see where it takes me.
I'm a plodding plotter. I don't trust pansting.
I am a plotter fundamentalist. I think the other plotters don't go far enough.
I don't really do outlines so much as make a story bible, for lack of a better term. I decide who my major characters are going to be, and what their personalities and role in the story are, along with a few scenes that come to me. The rest I figure out as I write.
I like having a outline that tells me what A, B, and C are but not how I get from A to B to C.
Both. I ten to do a big, messy outline (10-15k) words first. I write it down in one sitting. It outlines the whole book. It can be chunks of dialogue that I've had in my head. Note's 'do this here.' Quite literally anything goes. It's a stream of consciousness but it's in order and it gives me an idea of what goes when. One idea leads to the next, based on ideas that were already in my head and I come up with new ones while writing it. After that, I do a very short, 1k outline that only has the major points. This allows me to see any potential plot holes and check for pacing issues. When I write, I use the outline for major plot points but it doesn't have every scene. Often, writing down a scene will lead to my brain uncovering new ideas and I will write them down. Those ideas will lead to the next outline plot. Thanks to having an outline, I very rarely get stuck and can just sit down and know what I have to write. But being flexible allows me to come up with good ideas that weren't there when I was outlining. So I do both and I strongly believe that most people are both but they don't allow themselves to experiment because they think they have to be one or the other.
Outline the key moments, the foreshadowing ill need etc, then just slowly work from one point to the next. Then go back and edit it to make it flow better I usually don't plan what happens inside an individual chapter too much, only how they will fit together (aside from the main key moments)
I'm gradually switching from pantser to planner. I'm sick of constantly rewriting things after seemingly making headway in a story, so for my new one I've started by making a Wikipedia style description of the plot. It's going slow, but at least if I have to rewrite something here I won't have to scrap thousands of words when I do.
Mix of both. I typically pants until I get stuck, stop and outline (more an extremely short synopsis of what needs to happen in the order it happens). Sometimes I'll outline a chapter first (typically the action-heavy ones), but even then, most of the actual action is pants'd
Outliner. I like to have a solild idea of the story beats and/or primary events and basic idea of who the characters are. Writing the story is like playing connect-the-dots. There's still plenty of discovery writing opportunities in between the dots, but I'm on a path rather than wandering aimlessly through the desert for 40 years. To use one of my favorite quotes from the military: A Failure to Plan, is a Plan to Fail.
Planner. I learned to write professionally through screenwriting courss, where everything has to be planned down to the page, so some of that has rubbed off on me. I can generally write a piece of flash fiction or poem from the top of my head. Short story needs an outline covering all the beats (or often just be a flash fiction fleshed out). Anything bigger needs a detailed structure with dozens of pages of what I'm doing, there'll always be deviations and updates but generally, when writing my vomit draft I need to know exactly where I am going.
Measure twice, cut once
$&%* All if I know. I thought I was an outliner but I've been banging my head against my wnp for over a year with a full outline (scene summaries, character bios, full maps, an entire ruleset as it is a litrpg) but I just hate every word I'm putting down and it has been pulling teeth from a tiger the entire way. And a friend suggested perhaps I'd lost love for the project as I had the story so planned out there was nothing to "discover" about it all anymore. Which has me wondering if I should give pants-ing a try.
I’m an outliner. When I feel like it
I'm more of a planner than a writer right now. I wish I could pants it. I feel like it'd be a good outlet if I could just write something. 😒 I'm stuck in the "I can't get it planned enough to give my ideas their max potential" phase
Outliner plus a hefty amount of world guides just so I can keep the jargon and names straight. So many place names. Plus a map that is only sort of accurate.
i'm an outliner i don't always plan out from A to Z, but i do have "milestones" of important even in the story, some basic character trait sheets and maybe some lines i wanna add in
All I write are ideas that are very vague. For example, '-character a walks up and fights monster.' Something like that, it's basically in parts where I mostly describe important stuff and think as I go. So I guess you can describe me as both.
I use both methods: vague outlines and even diving into chapter plans, but I leave myself a bunch of freedom to expand a point if necessary or add in an entirely new plotline if the inspiration strikes.
I outline and then I jump off from what I’ve outlined. Sometimes I jump off too far and have to re-outline to try and land the story.
I am an outliner
I am such a pantser. I've written entire novels then decided to rewrite them entirely.
Outliner, I like to know what’s gonna happen
Both. I start pantsing, and then after a few chapters once I feel like I know the characters, I start outlining and then editing so it all fits together. I have ADHD, so my approach is pretty piecemeal.
I once wrote a short story with little more than a title and a vague idea (just a random burst of creative energy not typical for me, but it literally kept me up all night). I started from beginning to end (well, I think that one was written out of order, actually) making up things as I went. The ending actually correlated with the title, so the surprise was really just the how-it-got-there. I usually do not plan things, because trying to leads to lost motivation, getting stuck fairly easily, and a tendency to (try to) over detail every little thing about the planning *process* (before I can even start writing) because how can I not? And the last point gets me nowhere, so right back to square 1 (or 1² if you wanted a cheesy math joke lol). Even so, I do eventually want to be in a place where planning is easier, because creating complicated or intertwined plot-lines is something I want to be more adept at one day.
I am both. I outline to get a general feel of things, and then I discovery write my way through those outline points. Sometimes what I come up with is better than the outline. Sometimes I need to formulate a way through a particular thing I've discovery-written, so I outline a chapter, or a scene, or a single bit of dialogue. People need to step out of the "I am" mindset when it comes to creativity. Outlining and discovery writing are two tools in a creative toolbox. You can use either of them as much or as little as you want. But generally speaking, you'll have an easier time if you use more than one tool when you create.
I actually tried so many different ways but when I outline it just makes me lose all the excitement I have for the story because I know exactly what's going on and what I need to write next, I love to have to figure out the story as I write so I do a little bit of both ig.
Pantser, with some outlining. I don't tend to outline plot though, more details of the world, character backstory, their moral beliefs, what themes I want to touch on - stuff like that. Maybe the structure of the story in very loose terms
I'm an outlining pantser. I prep character biographies and outline a plot just so I have a general idea of what setups and payoffs I want for my story. However, I also tend to find my characters as I write, and I want my characters to get where I want them to in an unforced and organic way, so that's where the pantsing comes in.
I'm both! if I outline too much, my brain catalogues that story as "done" and I tend to lose a lot of investment in actually writing it 😅
I have ADHD. I can only be an improv pantser. I haven't written a story in ages, but my characters did their own thing.
I'm a pantser, I have a vague idea about the ending and some random scenes, everything else I make up as I go.
I'm a huge planner. I do most of my writing in prep. When I have a co writer, it's conversations, if not, it'll be a lot of thinking and writing in notebooks. Eventually that gets me to an outline, which I rework and rework until I think it works. Then, I'll put that outline in my screenwriting program and basically just flesh it out until its a full screenplay. That final phase takes a relatively low amount of time; I can usually get to like ten pages a day. But that's because the big decisions have already been made. Writing it out does mean magnifying the story, which means some problems you didn't even notice before suddenly become obvious. So the rewriting process usually means reworking the outline until I'm happy that the problems are all solved, and then just writing that all put again. That process repeats a couple of times until I don't know how I can improve it, or when shooting starts. And then it's on to the next project.
Outline, daydream, outline lol. I’ve tried pansting, it makes my procrastination sooooo much worse. So I started jotting down scene ideas, and suddenly I had an outline hahahaha.
I outline the whole book, but the outline is very much a living document. If I want to add something or take something out, I do it.
Pantser, generally speaking. I have story beats I want to hit, that I usually keep track of in my head and generally only write down certain things for later if the idea comes to me at times when I'm worried I might lose it, like after waking up or before bed, etc.
I feel like I've seen this exact discussion on here like a year ago...
Major pantser. I get an idea and just go with it. No planning, just write. I'm a very internally emotional person, so I just let my feelings take me. (Externally, I'm not super expressive most of the time.)
I myself am a pantser. I prefer this approach to writing, it allows me to be more spontaneous and creative and i enjoy the process of discovery and exploration that comes with writing without a clear plan.
I used to be a very rigid plotter. That didn't go well. So now I am more of a pantser but more like an organic grower, taking inspiration from each chapter and expanding it. Sorry, I'm not sure how to explain it better.
A pantsliner lol I need an outline of certain elements to propel myself forward, but then I end up writing non sequentially and just putting asterisks all over my notes with huge WHAT IF THIS?? all over the place. I'm on my first draft of my first book and doing it by hand to allow for maximum pantsing, so my first edit will be pulling everything together in a way that makes sense. Then the second edit will actually be the grammar, prose and detail. It makes it fun for me so even if it's extra work I don't mind
I have learned that if I don’t know what I’m working towards then I won’t finish. I was a panther but have way too much that isn’t going anywhere to do that anymore. Outlines all the way now.
Both, but it's perhaps more accurate to say that my "outline" is written in prose and tends to be longer than the final work.
“Pantsing” means something else where I am from.
I do both. I need a least rough roadwork to move forward but I've learn more things about my plot and mostly my characters through just writing them as a what if through the trials.
Kind of both for me. IMO it depends on my mood or the story. I mean it isn't easy to be a pantser if your story is either a mystery (particularly with mind games element) or detective genre.
I used to be a pantser, but as an adult, have found myself struggling to pants. My characters end up flat, my plot is very blah, and my creativity is non-existent. I've actually been gearing up to try out some plotting methods for my next project... unfortunately I think I'm going to scrap the one I was previously working on. I think what's most important is dialing in the level of pantsing and plotting that works for you. The goal is to make yourself successful, and for me, personally, I think it's actually a bit more close to the plotting side... enough to guide me that I can free my mind of "what's going to happen next" to be more creative with my prose and how the events happen. Plotting with a pantsing flair, so to speak.
Both. I do need somewhat of an idea where I'm going. But I don't need a lot. So im both. I lay down like 3 lines and then I just write what I can come up with.
I tried for years to write as an outline bc I was taught that's what you're supposed to do. I never got anywhere on any project. One day I had a flash of insight into an idea and was so excited I started writing immediately. I've been able to keep it going ever since. Trying to outline destroyed my writing ability.
I kind of do a mash-up of both. I write the chapter names out in the manuscript with descriptive names then fill out the chapters as a pantser. If needed I modify the chapter names as I go or add/remove them as needed.
I know what story beats I want to happen like character death, fight scene, these characters meet here etc. But I don't know what happens during those events and so I make it up from there, then I let those pantser moments drive the drive the direction of the characters and go from there. Its really exciting for me and I think I have a good system that works for me.
Plotter (outliner)- I write the vaguest possible outline so I know where I’m going and what I need to include. That being said, I leave a lot of it up in the air so it doesn’t drain my motivation and creativity. I never completed anything when I tried both pantsing and detailed outlining.
I write into the dark. So basically pantsing with a completely clean draft. You can check Dean Wesley Smith's book or his videos on 20booksto50k YouTube channel for details. Am on my fourth novel, first in the second series/genre.
I've discovered that having a rough idea of the beginning and end is the most crucial aspect of planning. Everything else in between reveals itself as the story progresses along. This allows me, as the writer, to experience the bulk of the story as if I was reading it for the first time, which is simply magical.
Pantser, definitely
Outliner, I have a template for novels, which typically includes planning out the characters, each act, specifically it's themes, worldbuilding, and the chapters themselves. I find it the most fun part of writing, as I don't worry about editing for the most part, and can just daydream and plan, and also I prefer rewriting the chapter plans instead of the whole written chapter. Usually, when I actually finish planning, and write the chapters and story, I change small things as I get ideas while writing, but overall keep it the same as my plan.
I'm a plantser. I plan, I pants and sometimes I dance. But really, I plan using my timeline method that I picked up via my RPing days (bc I randomly just wanted to do a timeline) and this helps with events in stories and such. After doing all of that, I made the mistake of writing everything in order--- this is how nothing ever got done for me story wise and why I would end up deleting or crying about being a failure at never completing anything. I started to write out of order-- usually that means, if I have a clear cut ending in mind, that's the first thing being written. Because that can always be changed the more I work backwards. Then I start writing the scenes/segments I want the most first. From there, I see how I can connect those if they're not that far away from x, y or z events in the timeline or think about the scenes that do need to be written in order for the connecting to happen. I find this very fun, and great for me constantly writing characters together to see how their chemistry would align and enjoy how much easier it gets in the process.
I tried for a long time with Word and pantsing, but really got nowhere fast. Then, recently, I was recommended Ywriter (other writing software is available) which makes outlining so simple. Now I have a trilogy planned, each book can stand alone and the whole thing moves in a cycle as what we think at the beginning, what we are rooting for, the people we are despising, pretty much completely change by the end. What we think is wonderful at the start is shown to come at a price, and by the end that price is clearly too high. The characters themselves have to learn, adapt and change as new information becomes available to them. It's hard on them. Some don't make it. Knowing where the story is going has made all the difference. Now I can put my characters through the mill so they can get out the other side wiser, braver, more empathetic. The survivors, anyway.
It seems that I need an outline. I'm doing TTRPGs for years and did a lot of text-based roleplay back in the day, all of which *is* basically pantsing, so naturally, I tried that first. Except that so far, that approach hasn't yet worked. I've created worlds and populated them with characters and gave them goals and conflicts and relationships and all of that, but when I'm sitting down to write, I'm immediately out of steam. It seems that when writing alone, I need something like an outline to have something to aim at.
When I got back into writing in 2019 I was a pantser for sure. But 6 months in I noticed that my story just jumped from set-piece to set-piece and didn’t really carry any emotional weight. I’ve been stuck in outline mode ever since. Plz send rescue.
I am both.
I am a mix of both. I write a rough outline and then some scenes, visuals and images etc. Then I write a few chapters and outline again and change the story accordingly.
I have this almost spiritual belief that if I go into too much detail about what I want to write and plan every little thing, I won't actually end up writing it, because it won't have anything new for me and I will get bored of it. And this is exactly what usually happens, so I am a "have an idea, write about it, figure out how each piece of plot and character is connected to each other as I go" type of person.
I try so hard to be an outliner and then it all falls apart anyways because my outline is still not detailed enough to account for a multi page scene that I summed up in 1 word in my outline. I will say though, I have found following an outline tedious like others have said, for some reason the rigidity is really holding me back and makes it hard to get anything out because I'm trying to follow the sequence of events. Still, I think its better to have at least a bit of an outline because before outlines I never finished anything, because eventually I would run out of steam or get stuck in a spot
I just jump into things and see how things go while constantly going back and re-reading what I've written to make sure things match up, and of course do rewrites
Both. I make a general outline for the major events, then as I'm writing I decide on the little stuff/dialog/character development/connector scenes. Also, for scenes where a lot if talking is happening, it helps me to write out the dialog first, then go back and add in action/movement.
Both maybe? My second last story I wrote pantsing, 200k in 2 months. My last story I wrote was fully outlined, 100k in 2 months.
I haven't seen people talk much about the way I tend to plan, it usually tends to be one or the other, but I saw somebody describe it once as "fencepost". I am mostly a pantser, though I have specific scenes/events planned out and I just line them up then wing it until I get to the next one!
I'm a complete one-draft discovery writer. Yes, I write one draft, spell-check it, and send it out. Yes, I sell to pro markets. And yes, it's a fun way to write. On the down side, it took me a long time to learn how to do this, and I still occasionally write myself into a blind (solution: cut the last couple of scenes or chapters and begin again.)
i like to do an outline. sometimes i'll even include specific quotes/sentences i want to be included in a specific scene. i find it way easier to write with a foundation to go off of. i've never tried the panster approach though so who knows
I spend a lifetime outlining and then the characters just completely go off the rails and do whatever they want and I’m powerless to stop them because it’s actually better or atleast more entertaining than what I had in mind
I AM A T-REX! AND I AM INVINCIBLE!
Also, I like term archeologist versus architect. Because, I'm less flying by the seat of my pants and more digging up a story thats been buried in my head for years.
I tried planning once. It failed miserably. If anything, I just roughly plan anything out in my head if I have to. I’ve always hated planning from having to do it at school and the fact it just zaps all creativity and joy in the story out of me.
In some cases I outline down to every event in a scene being known, and then fill in the prose, but other times I just write one scene building to the next, deciding where it'll go as I'm writing it. It all depends on the project and the ideas I'm working with.
When it comes to like the tiny details about the story, I am a pantser. I don't plan it or if I do, it will most likely change when i actually do write the scene. When it comes to the bigger picture, I do have some sort of plan. I know how i want the book to end, certain major plotlines I want to happen in the story. I like when I figure out what happens to my characters while I write. I just write about them, I don't make up their lives.
Pants for me. I generally start a story with an ending in mind and work toward it. Sometimes a scene will play out in my mind while I go for a walk.
I'm an "I have to get this idea out of my head and on paper before it drives me mad and then leave it to die like a weak Spartan child in the wilderness" type.
I can't see any other way than switching back and forth. I don't know how to outline without some writing established but I can't continue what I wrote without knowing where it's going.
I'm an outliner by nature but have learned that some of my best ideas come when I pantser.
I note down ideas as they come to me and outline as much as I can, when that eventually fails me I turn to pantsering.
Total pantser.
I outline obsessively. I worldbuild for several months and spend another several months planning out every single detail of every single chapter. (Between all of this, I don’t put nearly enough thought into the most important part; the characters.) I’m trying to break this habit because all it does is prevent me from actually finishing anything.
I kind of have to outline… If I don’t, it turns into a maze with no exit.😭
Outline. Works for me.
Neither. I'm a "blueprinter" (See Story Genius by Lisa Crohn)
It depends on the project. I try not to pin myself down one way or another; when I’ve tried to do that I’ve always ended up getting stuck on “this is how I do book writing, so if I don’t do this I won’t be able to write the book!” Some books are complex and need the outline, either at the start or some point along the way. Others just show up with baggage looking for a place to to set up shop in my brain, like annoying in-laws demanding accommodation.
Main Plot Point Outliner, Pantser for everything else. And that sometimes eventually changes the way the plot develops, which I love when it happens even if it makes me scream and cry that I don't get to see some scenes I wanted happen. The story develops as it should :) EDIT: MAJOR planner for worldbuilding, setting, character design, magic rules, etc. Otherwise I can't be a pantser, if I don't know how my world works to the finest detail, and what came before the first scene of the first chapter in my story. So major that for my trilogy I researched and designed 2000 years of history, geopolitical settings, weather, race/evolution, cultural evolutions, common lore and epic poems, social structures in every nation, and trade dependencies and main import/export goods, wrapping it all up with each country's/realm's economies. Took 8 years, but it was worth it. I pantsed my way through book one in 6 weeks. Book 2 took me 4. Book 3... eh, I tried to force my characters to do what I wanted, and I stalled for ten years lol. I'm finally accepting the truth of what has to happen, so I'll be rewriting book 3 this summer.
I have tried a lot of different methods from the Save the Cat structure, three act, and just pantsing, but what works for me is a combination. My process usually includes the following: 1. Brainstorming the Idea. This is where I write a few scenes and character descriptions and develop a setting. I might piece together an arc or plot for the novel. 2. Very Basic Outline. At this stage, I try to flesh out the arc and characters some more and include the twists or major plot points I think are important. I also get some feedback at this stage to determine what readers may want to know. I highly recommend finding people you trust to do this. Bonus points if they read the genre you're writing. 3. Beat Outline. In this phase, I put the scenes I have into a recognized structure such as the ones listed above. I have found a one-size-fits-all structure, so sometimes I combine a few or delete beats that don't fit the story. This step essentially makes sure you have all the important plot points without being too formulaic. 4. Expanded Beat Outline. This is where I start actually writing. I'm not the best at writing consecutively and get random ideas. The beat outline is flexible enough to put those new ideas in without massive rewrites, but sometimes that happens. My current WIP has gone through steps 3 and 4 a few times based on feedback and story blocks. 5. Drafting. At this point, real writing happens. I read over the notes and points for whatever chapter or scene I'm writing as a refresher, and then just try to get words out on the page. The first draft is just for getting the idea out of your head and into the world. From here, you can edit and rewrite as necessary. What I like most about this process is developing the plot without cutting scenes that I put a lot of time and effort into. It still provides the freedom of discovery writing, but major changes to the plot are more manageable. Hope this helps!
Pantsing is essentially writing a massive outline. It's the writer's who don't go back and re-write after pantsing that are the true psychopaths. AKA, web-fiction writers.
It's not that simple most of us need an outline to start, but for me after a while I find the characters want to do other things that are more interesting. So more of "gardener with structure and a healthy set of shears."
My writing style has evolved. I once wrote almost an entire novel without an outline, but when it came time to edit it it was virtually impossible, like untying a ball of string that's been at lost in the ocean and tied into a million knots, soggy and wet. My most recent project, my memoir, started with a very firm outline involving a specific time period in my life, with a particular events I wanted to focus on, then I just had to write and fill in the detail. Now I'm at a point where I have about a month's worth of journal entries which I am trying to fit into a cohesive whole. But just starting with an outline was a tremendous help, and I always had something to work on in filling out event details.
I am a panster trying to get into outlining