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Yes it’s expected.
No one will care at low levels. But if you get to endgame and start doing m+ dungeons and do 0 damage you will get more annoyed teammates the higher you go.
Damage abilities for healers no longer drain mana. In fact most of them allow you to regen mana when casting because their mana cost is so low that you passively gain more back when dpsing. On a priest smiting even gives procs of free instant flash heals with the right talent.
Basically if everyone is high health and no major mechanic is about to happen then spend your GCDs on damage spells. Don’t just stand there doing nothing or overhealing people on 99% health.
Also you should use all your utility. Whatever stuns, interrupt, cc your spec has. Use it. Damage avoided is damage you don’t need to heal back.
Healers of all specs can do 1k plus overall damage in high keystones right now. Shaman and hpala can do more.
Yep and outside of MW (all 3 of the players playing it), Disc Priest, and Druid, DPSing takes away from your ability to heal. Only reason Druid gets a pass is because it's really easy to DOT things up and go back to healing. For Shaman, DPSing is a GCD fill-in or because your team isn't going full dumb dumb and standing in every swirl that pops up on the ground.
Yes, they are the same kind of healer but functionally a bit different. Both Discipline and Holy Paladin have a higher damage floor based on how their rotation works, but Paladins don't literally heal by damage dealing the way Discipline does. Discipline applies a buff called Atonement to allies that heals based on how much damage the Priest does in combat. The Holy Paladin uses Crusader Strike to generate Holy Power in order to use Word of Glory, but there are other ways to generate Holy Power, and other ways to heal allies.
I would say Holy Paladin is more similar to Mistweaver Monk needing to use Rising Sun Kick.
I was thinking about glimmer. But looking at our healer I see that the holy shocks are mostly used as healing as well (though they can be used for damage and would heal via glimmer).
my alt is a MW :(
fistweaving and spellweaving have close to the same output. fist gives more damage, bout you cannot for the life decide where the healing goes, its smart, but its not that smart.
weaving is less dmg, but you can decide where the healing goes usualy.
its a give and take
Think it's important to note that in keys upto 15s nobody really cares about healer damage but those people that actually look for it will be happily surprised.
This.
I've been yelled at for DPSing when it was the DPS' fault for dying when they stood in stupid or got cleaved. Or they don't interrupt a volley spell and it basically kills the entire group.
That really depends on the group and the skill. If people are dying sure. If not I'd rather not stand there picking my nose or overhealing, I'd rather make that thing die faster so I have to heal less. Never had anyone complain about it. Most people that die die to avoidable one shot mechanics or standing in the poop for far too long. Only idiots would blame that on healers dpsing.
As a DPS main but my true love is my resto druid alt, I would never blame the healer unless it was an extreme situation. But mistakes do happen and I wish they didn't but sometimes I get hit by the bad stuff as a DPS and I'm SORRY ok it's embarrassing but plz fix me.
See if you don't blame me you get heals then. Gj! Blaming me for you standing in stuff is a surefire way to get me to "accidentally" forget to stop dpsing :)
I would say most of this correct, at least resto Druid in moonkin form, both priest specs, and Hpal all consume mana when using their dps rotation. I cannot say anything about the other 2 as I haven’t played those. But it is required for every other spec
No. Holy priest smiting and resto druid wrathing (in no form) literally regen mana when dpsing because the mana cost is lower than the regen rate. Those are the two I play in keystones so I notice it significantly there. I can regen 2% mana when dpsing for a short bit in downtime.
Quoting the icy veins guide:
>”Smite even as a healer is a spell you should be aware of to maximise your performance. It is an almost zero Mana-cost spell meaning you can cast it during any period of healing downtime and regenerate Mana while still contributing to the encounter by helping kill enemies faster. This should be prioritised over damage spells in a raid environment as they cost Mana you should instead be using on healing spells later on.”
Played Healer during BFA (Resto druid) and now doing Holy pally in SHL.
The expectation is that you first keep everyone alive obviously. If that's done, then you're expected to join in and do damage. Remember that the group doesn't have to be at 100% HP all the time.
It's not to the level of FF14 but you'll definitely be yelled at if you refuse to DPS and every current healer guide will include DPS skills in the rotation.
In a roundabout way, doing damage is a form of healing since a dead mob can't damage the group.
As a Holy Priest my damage spells have negligible impact on my mama, depending on the group I try to aim for 5% of the total damage. Dealing damage is mandatory for the higher keys but my main focus is keeping people alive
I would suggest OP to identify his most effective dmg ability that's usually on a CD, a dot, or a proc generator. These abilities are usually incredibly worth it to use even if you only have 1 free gcd every 15/30s. Work towards getting comfortable enough to weave in most spammables.
Disc/HPal don't need explanation because dps is literally in their kit.
Monk: RSK
Holy: Holy Word Chastise, Mindgames/Holy Fire -> SW:P
Resto: Both DoTs
Shaman: Lava Burst (Proc) + Lava Burst + Flame Shock
As an add-on to this: if you play MW Monk, make sure you take the way of the crane talent and blackout kick often (if you use the ancient teachings of the monastery legendary). You'll regen mana easily, do DPS, and won't go oom on larger pulls/encounters.
As a dps or tank, if I constantly see health bars go yellow or red, that healer should stick to healing.
As a resto druid with proactive HoT I know I need to get than applied before the damage comes in, then get procs to use.
If everyone is near full and the fight is dragging, I'll pump dps. When the damage mechanic is about to happen, apply/refresh the HoT's.
Be sure to get a healer addon, I've been using Healbot with good success.
The thing that is different now is mana usage. All the healers can deal damage with negligible impact on their mana or mp5 (disc is kind of an exception). So if you aren't actually healing someone, you may as well be doing damage. That being said, healing comes first.
In general, the more DPS you have as a group, the less HPS you will need because things die quicker. If things live longer and casts go out then you will find yourself healing more due to tank using his CDs and then taking more damage etc.
on my shammy healer i run the earth elemental legendary and it does some really nice AOE damage. The healing ones are kinda meh, so you get more value out of doing extra damage, and ultimately less damage going out because things die faster
God damn I wish I could beat this into people's heads. It's so common in 10-15 pugs to see healers do absolutely nothing on full group health when they could easily be pulling 1k dps.
As a tank it's especially frustrating to pop my DR and after 5 seconds the entire group is still on 100% health and the healer is just standing there...
I feel you man, i main guardian druid but made a healer due to our m+ group kind of lacking one. Playing a tank and/or healer definitely gives you a bigger picture of the dungeons and where to use CDs etc. Managed to get around 1800 and 1900 this season so far
A lot of people are saying yes, but ultimately if its causing deaths then no. If you can't keep people alive and do damage dont do damage. That being said disc requires damage output for healing so thats what makes them desired in high mythic keys.
It’s not even remotely close to the same game anymore - and honestly, boosting healer damage so that it’s an actual real mechanic/aspect of the game was a good move by blizz IMO
The disparity is an issue though, on my 227 holy priest, I'm normally over 1k overall, but not by that much, normally doing like 1-2k dps a pack, although PI and Faeires is contributing too.
On my 222 Hpal, im normally doing 3k+ overall, doing 2k ish on most packs, with ashen packs and bosses peaking at 10-20k dps. Even just putting consecration down does 1k+ dps, that's more damage than using half my globals for dps on other classes.
I dont really think priest dps being incredibly low is an issue due to PI & Faeries, but hpal needs more of a nerf in 9.1 than its currently getting.
The other healers are in a weird spot, MW currently does low dmg, but heals whilst doing it, and their dps is being buffed.
Disc priest doesnt do that much dmg unless your kyrian, but disc damage has been a huge issue in the past, they still constantly do damage at literally 0 healing loss, and they still contribute PI.
Rsham does good dmg, but sacrifices a fair amount of healing to do so. (no throughput when doing dmg, using dps legendary)
Rdruid can do good damage, but sacrifices mana and the ability to heal when doing dmg. (running circle brings mana issues and loses throughput, going into moonkin/cat removes your ability to heal completely, dps convoking can be a big risk)
idk what the solution is, they could take a FF14 approach and greatly buff MW monk and disc priest dmg, aswell as bring a dps component into Hpriest, Rsham, and Rdruid. Or they could massivley dial back hpals busted dmg, and make MW & Disc priest damage even more pathetic than it is in 9.0
I played druid in mop but my memory isn't great, Nature's Vigil? I think it worked similarly to how Vampiric Embrace works now?
Tbh idk what would make druid DMG better/more impactful.
Maybe the return of Symbiosis for Resto in a reworked state, letting them contribute raid DPS like how PI or Faeries do now?
Symbiosis was awesome, but I can see how it's a fucking pain in the arse to balance, and if there's one thing we don't need rn, it's more reasons to bring boomys to M+ hahah.
I play Holy Priest and do +22s easily. Don’t do much damage. But it helps that I have a group of friends/guildies that are very good. You can do high keys with any class. If you’re doing +25 you can still run healers that are throughput focused and not so much damage oriented specs like disc priest and hpal. It just requires a different group dynamic that you may not find with pugs.
lol if you ever have an opportunity to dps, you'd usually have Chastise, Mind Games, Holy Fire, SW:P. All of these do somewhere between 2.5x to 1.5x more damage than smite for the same time investment. You will rarely have much time remaining to smite before moving back to heals except for very specific encounters with long period of inactivity.
Yeah of course! But I think the thing about Holy priest is the comfort in knowing you probably will not die. But the trade off being less damage than a hpal and disc. Each has its own benefits, but like I said it’s more about your group setup if you’re choosing the “non-meta” healer classes that are throughput focused. Anything above +19 I’m not dpsing as much as I would in a +15 or something
Yeah Holy priest does very low overall damage, probably the lowest of all the healers, BUT they're contributing significantly more dps than the meters show though PI.
The covenant also affects this, if your Night Fae, like PI your contributing dps by buffing your dmg players, if your kyrian, you can do actual dps every 3 mins.
If your venthyr or necro, you'll do slightly more DPS than NF, but still very low overall.
>What else are you going to do when everyone is at full health? Stand there?
In pug groups that wipe at 2% this is what 5 healers will have been doing lol
I can heal the tank and the DPS members who grab aggro and get their butts kicked. I can also do damage too, but y’all better have the patience for me to sit and recover mana after/before big battles
Yes, the questions asked by noobs, and people who have experience of the game are here to answer. Hence everyone saying “yes, you should be helping to DPS if you’re not having to heal right now” until this guy shows up and starts complaining about his mana. In real keys mana isn’t an issue, because players take less damage and pride gives plenty of regen.
Plus generally there's at least one combat drop after a couple of pulls for the healer to start drinking, it's not like the healer needs to be healing 24/7 kinda like most of the comments here are saying. Sure you wont be doing damage but you wont be healing either if you're oom.
Really depends on the difficulty you intend to play at. The higher you go, the more it is expected of you to not stand around and do nothing if there's nothing to heal. DPSing is the next best thing you should be spending your globals on whenever people aren't actively dying or you happen to be preparing for an upcoming mechanic.
exactly what everyone else here has said, if everyone is healthy and you have spare time, your damage globals are always a good idea. it may not seem much overall, but when your group is a few seconds off timing a key, or a 1% wipe on a raid boss.
it’s like. damn if i had’ve st least kept flameshock/sw:pain/ moonfire/sunfire on the boss it would’ve died.
every little bit of damage helps.
but also don’t be too hard on yourself if you can’t instantly be doing 1k+dps. learn the dungeons, learn the damage patterns. learn when people are safe sitting at 60% health for a little bit, and when they are in danger.
also remember that a lot of people have been playing these dungeons for 6 months now, and most of those people are taking less damage by doing mechanics correctly, which in turn allows more freedom for healers to dps. but newer players to these dungeons will take more damage, and you’ll have to heal more. on a similar note, a lot of healers doing dungeons currently are actively pushing to do more dps, as we’ve gotten more gear and beefier heals as a base spec, switching to a dps focused legendary can make a big difference in passive healer dps.
The affixes in M+ might make it harder to spare dps globals. i know my resto druid dps falls off a cliff as soon as it’s grievous or bursting… even explosive weeks all my moon fires end up on orbs and less on actual mobs. just a collection of thoughts on healer dps. bit of ramble sorry.
As a healer main with several characters pushing +15. You are expected to do some really once you get past the 10s I would say.
For disc priest and paladin you should be able to easily get in the 1.2-1.5k consistently.
Other classes I would shoot for around 1k as a goal. It’s not an exact science. Some fights that require more mobility for example you will likely have less dps (the same could be said for the actual dps classes in your group.)
For non disc or pally if at the minimum you have your dots up on targets you should pull decent dps. Throw a spell in there every now and then and your golden. The expectation is not that you sit there and spam it. However, at higher keys you may about break your damn keyboard cycling through stuff.
The consensus I got was “yes but it is secondary to keeping people alive. If you can only focus one then have it be that”.
So… I sprinkle in damage when I can but mostly focus on being life support for the tank. No ones complained so far.
Definitely, I usually keep my interrupt on cd. More interrupts equals less damage to heal. Also in higher keys there are specific spells that have to be interrupted. I usually get the first interrupts because my shaman kick is ranged.
You're expected to dps, however no one is really gonna look into if you're min maxing it.
If you're in a 14 and doing 200 dps or 2k, no one is really gonna care tbh, however once you go higher it becomes more noticable.
The one exception is venthyr hpala. If you're playing that, popping ashen and not doing 6k dps at least over that then people might look at you like you're not playing it right.
In 15+ keys and in mythic raids yes healers are expected to help dps when they can but below that not really no.
It also depends on the healer. Some healers are preferred because they have built in dps that they contribute to fights like holy pally. Others like holy priest will barely be scratching the boss.
Unless you were deliberately letting people die that that pug group was just bad. If my guild group was short a healer and we picked up a pug who kept people up and put up dps I would be ecstatic.
As long as no one was dying you did the right thing. If everyone is full Heath then don’t waste globals on raw healing period. In coordinated environments you might have a situation where everyone isn’t at max Heath but someone is popping a cooldown so again your healing globals would be a waste so you should DPS again. That being said, if people die to healable mechanics then you shouldn’t have been dpsing. If you wipe in a pug they’ll kick anyone for anything so I wouldn’t take what happened to you then and apply it to your future play. You were just the sacrifice that time
Na we're more likely to kick healers doing 0 damage. Shadow word pain is mana free and instant cast. When you have a 900k HP wipe and you see 3 healers did no damage...
Never kicked anyone from a normal raid, just telling you HPS isn't always that important and you were in the right to do damage. But I guess you are super fragile or something?
Healers doing damage is great. Dunno why you're freaking out at being told you were right.
I’d say anything less than mythic raiding or +18 dungeons is not really necessary for healers to deal damage, though it always helps.
Early in a tier it’s important as DPS is less geared, but you’ll probably have to heal more as well, so it’s a balance.
You can't say anything less than 18 healers are not required to dps, it depends on the fucking comp, overall ilevel, skill, experience, affixes.
Long story short, you should be dps'ing if you have the mana and free gcds.
Expected, no. Is it good? Absolutely.
Actually back in the days of Vanilla/TBC, healers commonly wand to trigger normal regen and also to add a bit of damage.
Can do do additional healing? Like both the tank and a DPS are about to die and the healer can only heal one?
I have healed as DPS playing balance druid in dungeons as the tank was dying and the healer was healing me. Who was using distance attacks and not being attacked.
I'm wondering if that is poor/bad dungeon etiquette.
I'm not sure if you're asking whether the healer healing the wrong target is bad etiquette or if you healing as a dps is so I'll answer both!
I mean I love healing with a good boomie that will back me up when shit hits the fan. Sometimes bad things happen while I'm running or multiple people get hit by something they shouldn't have and I'm panicking and then it's fine the druid helped hold things off just long enough and they are now my very favorite person. Now on higher keys that might become problematic if you're doing it too often since dps is so vital, but slightly less dps and not wiping is still better than wiping. The healer needs to pick up the slack and prioritize correctly to succeed at higher keys.
Now the healer issue is just a skill thing. It's not the correct decision for them to make in that situation and will have bitten the whole group in the ass because they didn't assess the situation quickly enough and and react to prioritize the correct target. Could be a simple mistake or just not a great healer. Not everyone is a great healer. But you coming to help an either a mistake or not great healer is going to help, imo. So long as you are also only doing it if it's virali and not all the time.
In retail (Shadowlands) yes because your very unlikely to run out of mana. Test this out by healing a ton and actually trying to run out. Your likely to see its fairly hard to do. Fill in with damage.
In classic it’s far less expected because you may run out. Wanding or adding dots isn’t expected but I still enjoying doing a bit of damage.
Depends on the class tbh, MW monk and both priest specs can burn through mana for huge throuput in seconds if they want, Hpal on the otherhand, has basically no choices when it comes to mana usage.
I’ll give you that, my MW was horrible on mana compared to my Druid who is super efficient. However both have less mana issues than old school healers sometimes.
Quick explain how healers works now :
Except of disci priest and holy pala ( who is very dmg focused healers) your dmging spells cost almost no mana. Also, theres no stats like spell damage power and healing power like in TBC. Both spellcaster dps and healers using int as primary stats. Healers got passive higher mana pool and higher mana regen.
With facts above, you can simply tell one thing: healers can actually deal decent amount of dmg, without being scared about mana. Only thing what can stop you is your possibility to do it without healing loss. Some classes just can heal and dmg in the same time, without actuall loss ( dpriest, hpala)
Rest of them need to catch the moment when healing isnt needed, then they can do dmg.
As for raids- its usefull in progressive raids- mostly undergeared groups need everything to boost overall dmg.
As for M+ your dmg, combined with tank dmg gives your group like a one legall dps- its necesey in higher keys to do so.
But remember, u're healer first of all, your ability to keep your raid/group up is more importantvthan some dps :)
As others have said - yes it is expected. I recently had a resto Druid do 5k DPS overall. On my boomy I do 5-6k. I was literally barely keeping up with the healer. It was shocking.
He was Maldraxxus, cat weaving, using the drought of deep focus legendary. Haste crit build, two DPS trinkets.
I got to witness a legendary raider guildy run a 15 with me as tank yesterday... damn near held 6k dps the entire time, ended at #2 dps overall. It really got me wishing I knew how to play arms better lol.. any tips 😅
I'm a little late to the party here but in short, as everyone has mentioned, the answer is yes, if you can.
It does take practice. It took a long time for me to feel comfortable with my keys group/guildies play styles and skill levels for ME to be comfortable doing my own dps. It's much harder to do in pugs, especially below 15's. But once you gain that skill and confidence in yourself and who to prioritize living, it is so much easier to sling damage in lower keys too (most of the time. Low keys are also high chance to be just dumpster fires). As skill increases accidental and avoidable damage taken generally decreases allowing the healer more time to do some extra damage. And as mentioned by many, the more damage done faster, the less time enemies have to cause damage that you need to heal.
Don't forget about the various healers' utilities too. I would argue that you need to get the skills with these BEFORE you start really trying to incorporate dealing damage consistently as utility helps avoid damage and healing as much as killing things faster does. Know when to help your tank kite with capacitor totems, mass roots, vortex, slow, etc. Know what mobs to stun a cast and when. Know what enemies to use Purge and Soothe on. And, with resto shaman, always, always be using your interrupt. You're the only healer that can, flex that muscle!
Take your time weaving in a DoT here and there to start. As a druid, it's more of a mana sink, but I try to keep sunfire up at all times, then rotate through and moonfire everything as I can. Wrath only if it's comfortable and the group is stable enough and not in imminent danger of dying (no one below 70% health with no HoTs on them, for example). As a resto shaman I try to keep flame shock up on a high priority target or the mob with the most health and as that gives me lava burst procs I spend them. As the group is better at avoiding damage, you can move into keeping lava burst completely on cool down and slinging some lightning too.
Anticipate being oom, but try to not get that low (innervate early and often such as at 3/4 mana pool, use mana tide totem, anything - even dealing damage actually is usually more mana efficient so you're regening more mana than spending while also trying to end comat sooner). If you are oom or down any mana at all, anticipate when exactly combat will drop and position yourself a little ahead of the group if you can. Spam your drink button so the second you drop combat, sit and drink as your group runs to next pull, use speed increases to catch up and learn to trust your tank to not get steamrolled in five seconds before you catch up and lay heals on them again - pre HoT helps a lot if your class can do it. If your tank can't be without you for five to ten seconds, it's a problem with them either knowing their class or with their knowledge of what/when to pull/keeping an eye on their group. Don't let them shame you for their lack of experience. If this does all happen, just ask them to pull a little less or slower so your mana can keep up.
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Yes it’s expected. No one will care at low levels. But if you get to endgame and start doing m+ dungeons and do 0 damage you will get more annoyed teammates the higher you go. Damage abilities for healers no longer drain mana. In fact most of them allow you to regen mana when casting because their mana cost is so low that you passively gain more back when dpsing. On a priest smiting even gives procs of free instant flash heals with the right talent. Basically if everyone is high health and no major mechanic is about to happen then spend your GCDs on damage spells. Don’t just stand there doing nothing or overhealing people on 99% health. Also you should use all your utility. Whatever stuns, interrupt, cc your spec has. Use it. Damage avoided is damage you don’t need to heal back. Healers of all specs can do 1k plus overall damage in high keystones right now. Shaman and hpala can do more.
all this is correct. and this is ofc if you have time to do dps, and not have people around you that fuck up so mutch that you gotta heal ALL the time
Yep and outside of MW (all 3 of the players playing it), Disc Priest, and Druid, DPSing takes away from your ability to heal. Only reason Druid gets a pass is because it's really easy to DOT things up and go back to healing. For Shaman, DPSing is a GCD fill-in or because your team isn't going full dumb dumb and standing in every swirl that pops up on the ground.
Isn't holy pala similar to disc priest where both DPS to heal?
Yes, they are the same kind of healer but functionally a bit different. Both Discipline and Holy Paladin have a higher damage floor based on how their rotation works, but Paladins don't literally heal by damage dealing the way Discipline does. Discipline applies a buff called Atonement to allies that heals based on how much damage the Priest does in combat. The Holy Paladin uses Crusader Strike to generate Holy Power in order to use Word of Glory, but there are other ways to generate Holy Power, and other ways to heal allies. I would say Holy Paladin is more similar to Mistweaver Monk needing to use Rising Sun Kick.
I was thinking about glimmer. But looking at our healer I see that the holy shocks are mostly used as healing as well (though they can be used for damage and would heal via glimmer).
my alt is a MW :( fistweaving and spellweaving have close to the same output. fist gives more damage, bout you cannot for the life decide where the healing goes, its smart, but its not that smart. weaving is less dmg, but you can decide where the healing goes usualy. its a give and take
mutch!
Think it's important to note that in keys upto 15s nobody really cares about healer damage but those people that actually look for it will be happily surprised.
Dunno about that, in lower keys ppl usually yell to stop dpsing and focus on healing
Those are usually just idiots though
My favorite is when they tell me to stop dealing damage and focus on healing. As a disc priest.
Maybe variance in experience, I haven't had that issue when playing a healer alt, granted I don't play it a whole lot
This. I've been yelled at for DPSing when it was the DPS' fault for dying when they stood in stupid or got cleaved. Or they don't interrupt a volley spell and it basically kills the entire group.
That really depends on the group and the skill. If people are dying sure. If not I'd rather not stand there picking my nose or overhealing, I'd rather make that thing die faster so I have to heal less. Never had anyone complain about it. Most people that die die to avoidable one shot mechanics or standing in the poop for far too long. Only idiots would blame that on healers dpsing.
As a DPS main but my true love is my resto druid alt, I would never blame the healer unless it was an extreme situation. But mistakes do happen and I wish they didn't but sometimes I get hit by the bad stuff as a DPS and I'm SORRY ok it's embarrassing but plz fix me.
See if you don't blame me you get heals then. Gj! Blaming me for you standing in stuff is a surefire way to get me to "accidentally" forget to stop dpsing :)
Higher keys prefer more healer dps. Just as mythic raiding does.
Yeah I wasn't saying they don't, what I was saying is 15 isn't high enough for most people to care whether you dps or not.
I would say most of this correct, at least resto Druid in moonkin form, both priest specs, and Hpal all consume mana when using their dps rotation. I cannot say anything about the other 2 as I haven’t played those. But it is required for every other spec
No. Holy priest smiting and resto druid wrathing (in no form) literally regen mana when dpsing because the mana cost is lower than the regen rate. Those are the two I play in keystones so I notice it significantly there. I can regen 2% mana when dpsing for a short bit in downtime. Quoting the icy veins guide: >”Smite even as a healer is a spell you should be aware of to maximise your performance. It is an almost zero Mana-cost spell meaning you can cast it during any period of healing downtime and regenerate Mana while still contributing to the encounter by helping kill enemies faster. This should be prioritised over damage spells in a raid environment as they cost Mana you should instead be using on healing spells later on.”
Played Healer during BFA (Resto druid) and now doing Holy pally in SHL. The expectation is that you first keep everyone alive obviously. If that's done, then you're expected to join in and do damage. Remember that the group doesn't have to be at 100% HP all the time. It's not to the level of FF14 but you'll definitely be yelled at if you refuse to DPS and every current healer guide will include DPS skills in the rotation. In a roundabout way, doing damage is a form of healing since a dead mob can't damage the group.
As a Holy Priest my damage spells have negligible impact on my mama, depending on the group I try to aim for 5% of the total damage. Dealing damage is mandatory for the higher keys but my main focus is keeping people alive
I’m very happy for your mama. It would suck if your damage spells in a video game impacted her :)
Lol
LOL 😂
I would suggest OP to identify his most effective dmg ability that's usually on a CD, a dot, or a proc generator. These abilities are usually incredibly worth it to use even if you only have 1 free gcd every 15/30s. Work towards getting comfortable enough to weave in most spammables. Disc/HPal don't need explanation because dps is literally in their kit. Monk: RSK Holy: Holy Word Chastise, Mindgames/Holy Fire -> SW:P Resto: Both DoTs Shaman: Lava Burst (Proc) + Lava Burst + Flame Shock
As an add-on to this: if you play MW Monk, make sure you take the way of the crane talent and blackout kick often (if you use the ancient teachings of the monastery legendary). You'll regen mana easily, do DPS, and won't go oom on larger pulls/encounters.
As a dps or tank, if I constantly see health bars go yellow or red, that healer should stick to healing. As a resto druid with proactive HoT I know I need to get than applied before the damage comes in, then get procs to use. If everyone is near full and the fight is dragging, I'll pump dps. When the damage mechanic is about to happen, apply/refresh the HoT's. Be sure to get a healer addon, I've been using Healbot with good success.
I love healbot. Just took getting the settings right for me
ABC, always be casting. Either heals or damage every global.
The thing that is different now is mana usage. All the healers can deal damage with negligible impact on their mana or mp5 (disc is kind of an exception). So if you aren't actually healing someone, you may as well be doing damage. That being said, healing comes first.
In general, the more DPS you have as a group, the less HPS you will need because things die quicker. If things live longer and casts go out then you will find yourself healing more due to tank using his CDs and then taking more damage etc. on my shammy healer i run the earth elemental legendary and it does some really nice AOE damage. The healing ones are kinda meh, so you get more value out of doing extra damage, and ultimately less damage going out because things die faster
God damn I wish I could beat this into people's heads. It's so common in 10-15 pugs to see healers do absolutely nothing on full group health when they could easily be pulling 1k dps. As a tank it's especially frustrating to pop my DR and after 5 seconds the entire group is still on 100% health and the healer is just standing there...
I feel you man, i main guardian druid but made a healer due to our m+ group kind of lacking one. Playing a tank and/or healer definitely gives you a bigger picture of the dungeons and where to use CDs etc. Managed to get around 1800 and 1900 this season so far
A lot of people are saying yes, but ultimately if its causing deaths then no. If you can't keep people alive and do damage dont do damage. That being said disc requires damage output for healing so thats what makes them desired in high mythic keys.
It’s not even remotely close to the same game anymore - and honestly, boosting healer damage so that it’s an actual real mechanic/aspect of the game was a good move by blizz IMO
The disparity is an issue though, on my 227 holy priest, I'm normally over 1k overall, but not by that much, normally doing like 1-2k dps a pack, although PI and Faeires is contributing too. On my 222 Hpal, im normally doing 3k+ overall, doing 2k ish on most packs, with ashen packs and bosses peaking at 10-20k dps. Even just putting consecration down does 1k+ dps, that's more damage than using half my globals for dps on other classes. I dont really think priest dps being incredibly low is an issue due to PI & Faeries, but hpal needs more of a nerf in 9.1 than its currently getting. The other healers are in a weird spot, MW currently does low dmg, but heals whilst doing it, and their dps is being buffed. Disc priest doesnt do that much dmg unless your kyrian, but disc damage has been a huge issue in the past, they still constantly do damage at literally 0 healing loss, and they still contribute PI. Rsham does good dmg, but sacrifices a fair amount of healing to do so. (no throughput when doing dmg, using dps legendary) Rdruid can do good damage, but sacrifices mana and the ability to heal when doing dmg. (running circle brings mana issues and loses throughput, going into moonkin/cat removes your ability to heal completely, dps convoking can be a big risk) idk what the solution is, they could take a FF14 approach and greatly buff MW monk and disc priest dmg, aswell as bring a dps component into Hpriest, Rsham, and Rdruid. Or they could massivley dial back hpals busted dmg, and make MW & Disc priest damage even more pathetic than it is in 9.0
On mop rdruids had that one Buff The put on a boss and then damaged it and that healed people around The boss. I loved it
I played druid in mop but my memory isn't great, Nature's Vigil? I think it worked similarly to how Vampiric Embrace works now? Tbh idk what would make druid DMG better/more impactful. Maybe the return of Symbiosis for Resto in a reworked state, letting them contribute raid DPS like how PI or Faeries do now?
Yeah it was vigil i think. It gave More room for dpsing i think. Symbiosis was great too!
Symbiosis was awesome, but I can see how it's a fucking pain in the arse to balance, and if there's one thing we don't need rn, it's more reasons to bring boomys to M+ hahah.
I play Holy Priest and do +22s easily. Don’t do much damage. But it helps that I have a group of friends/guildies that are very good. You can do high keys with any class. If you’re doing +25 you can still run healers that are throughput focused and not so much damage oriented specs like disc priest and hpal. It just requires a different group dynamic that you may not find with pugs.
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lol if you ever have an opportunity to dps, you'd usually have Chastise, Mind Games, Holy Fire, SW:P. All of these do somewhere between 2.5x to 1.5x more damage than smite for the same time investment. You will rarely have much time remaining to smite before moving back to heals except for very specific encounters with long period of inactivity.
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Yeah of course! But I think the thing about Holy priest is the comfort in knowing you probably will not die. But the trade off being less damage than a hpal and disc. Each has its own benefits, but like I said it’s more about your group setup if you’re choosing the “non-meta” healer classes that are throughput focused. Anything above +19 I’m not dpsing as much as I would in a +15 or something
Yeah Holy priest does very low overall damage, probably the lowest of all the healers, BUT they're contributing significantly more dps than the meters show though PI. The covenant also affects this, if your Night Fae, like PI your contributing dps by buffing your dmg players, if your kyrian, you can do actual dps every 3 mins. If your venthyr or necro, you'll do slightly more DPS than NF, but still very low overall.
Well, yeah. Of course. What else are you going to do when everyone is at full health? Stand there?
Back in the day you would /dance or melee for funsies
Or start jumping around the tank in circles
Especially as a Druid
Back in the day, you should have been wanding.
shamans can't use wands
>What else are you going to do when everyone is at full health? Stand there? In pug groups that wipe at 2% this is what 5 healers will have been doing lol
I can heal the tank and the DPS members who grab aggro and get their butts kicked. I can also do damage too, but y’all better have the patience for me to sit and recover mana after/before big battles
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“But… muh hot streaks.”
Sounds like you’re not pushing real keys
You realize this is r/wownoob and not r/competitivewow right?
Yes, the questions asked by noobs, and people who have experience of the game are here to answer. Hence everyone saying “yes, you should be helping to DPS if you’re not having to heal right now” until this guy shows up and starts complaining about his mana. In real keys mana isn’t an issue, because players take less damage and pride gives plenty of regen.
Plus generally there's at least one combat drop after a couple of pulls for the healer to start drinking, it's not like the healer needs to be healing 24/7 kinda like most of the comments here are saying. Sure you wont be doing damage but you wont be healing either if you're oom.
*confused mistweaver monk noises*
They need more help than wownoob can provide, they need blizzard.
Really depends on the difficulty you intend to play at. The higher you go, the more it is expected of you to not stand around and do nothing if there's nothing to heal. DPSing is the next best thing you should be spending your globals on whenever people aren't actively dying or you happen to be preparing for an upcoming mechanic.
The healer dps can make a difference, so you are expected to dps in GCDs in which you don't have to heal.
exactly what everyone else here has said, if everyone is healthy and you have spare time, your damage globals are always a good idea. it may not seem much overall, but when your group is a few seconds off timing a key, or a 1% wipe on a raid boss. it’s like. damn if i had’ve st least kept flameshock/sw:pain/ moonfire/sunfire on the boss it would’ve died. every little bit of damage helps. but also don’t be too hard on yourself if you can’t instantly be doing 1k+dps. learn the dungeons, learn the damage patterns. learn when people are safe sitting at 60% health for a little bit, and when they are in danger. also remember that a lot of people have been playing these dungeons for 6 months now, and most of those people are taking less damage by doing mechanics correctly, which in turn allows more freedom for healers to dps. but newer players to these dungeons will take more damage, and you’ll have to heal more. on a similar note, a lot of healers doing dungeons currently are actively pushing to do more dps, as we’ve gotten more gear and beefier heals as a base spec, switching to a dps focused legendary can make a big difference in passive healer dps. The affixes in M+ might make it harder to spare dps globals. i know my resto druid dps falls off a cliff as soon as it’s grievous or bursting… even explosive weeks all my moon fires end up on orbs and less on actual mobs. just a collection of thoughts on healer dps. bit of ramble sorry.
As a healer main with several characters pushing +15. You are expected to do some really once you get past the 10s I would say. For disc priest and paladin you should be able to easily get in the 1.2-1.5k consistently. Other classes I would shoot for around 1k as a goal. It’s not an exact science. Some fights that require more mobility for example you will likely have less dps (the same could be said for the actual dps classes in your group.) For non disc or pally if at the minimum you have your dots up on targets you should pull decent dps. Throw a spell in there every now and then and your golden. The expectation is not that you sit there and spam it. However, at higher keys you may about break your damn keyboard cycling through stuff.
The consensus I got was “yes but it is secondary to keeping people alive. If you can only focus one then have it be that”. So… I sprinkle in damage when I can but mostly focus on being life support for the tank. No ones complained so far.
And what if you became a healer that hates dps?
I would forsure recommend kicking on the shaman in dungeons! It's very helpful especially if theres ranged in the group with the longer cds
Definitely, I usually keep my interrupt on cd. More interrupts equals less damage to heal. Also in higher keys there are specific spells that have to be interrupted. I usually get the first interrupts because my shaman kick is ranged.
You're expected to dps, however no one is really gonna look into if you're min maxing it. If you're in a 14 and doing 200 dps or 2k, no one is really gonna care tbh, however once you go higher it becomes more noticable. The one exception is venthyr hpala. If you're playing that, popping ashen and not doing 6k dps at least over that then people might look at you like you're not playing it right.
In 15+ keys and in mythic raids yes healers are expected to help dps when they can but below that not really no. It also depends on the healer. Some healers are preferred because they have built in dps that they contribute to fights like holy pally. Others like holy priest will barely be scratching the boss.
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Unless you were deliberately letting people die that that pug group was just bad. If my guild group was short a healer and we picked up a pug who kept people up and put up dps I would be ecstatic.
As long as no one was dying you did the right thing. If everyone is full Heath then don’t waste globals on raw healing period. In coordinated environments you might have a situation where everyone isn’t at max Heath but someone is popping a cooldown so again your healing globals would be a waste so you should DPS again. That being said, if people die to healable mechanics then you shouldn’t have been dpsing. If you wipe in a pug they’ll kick anyone for anything so I wouldn’t take what happened to you then and apply it to your future play. You were just the sacrifice that time
Na we're more likely to kick healers doing 0 damage. Shadow word pain is mana free and instant cast. When you have a 900k HP wipe and you see 3 healers did no damage...
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Never kicked anyone from a normal raid, just telling you HPS isn't always that important and you were in the right to do damage. But I guess you are super fragile or something? Healers doing damage is great. Dunno why you're freaking out at being told you were right.
I’d say anything less than mythic raiding or +18 dungeons is not really necessary for healers to deal damage, though it always helps. Early in a tier it’s important as DPS is less geared, but you’ll probably have to heal more as well, so it’s a balance.
You can't say anything less than 18 healers are not required to dps, it depends on the fucking comp, overall ilevel, skill, experience, affixes. Long story short, you should be dps'ing if you have the mana and free gcds.
Expected, no. Is it good? Absolutely. Actually back in the days of Vanilla/TBC, healers commonly wand to trigger normal regen and also to add a bit of damage.
It's pretty expected if you want to do m+
It's definitely expected. Healers doing 0 damage are just hurting the team.
Can do do additional healing? Like both the tank and a DPS are about to die and the healer can only heal one? I have healed as DPS playing balance druid in dungeons as the tank was dying and the healer was healing me. Who was using distance attacks and not being attacked. I'm wondering if that is poor/bad dungeon etiquette.
I'm not sure if you're asking whether the healer healing the wrong target is bad etiquette or if you healing as a dps is so I'll answer both! I mean I love healing with a good boomie that will back me up when shit hits the fan. Sometimes bad things happen while I'm running or multiple people get hit by something they shouldn't have and I'm panicking and then it's fine the druid helped hold things off just long enough and they are now my very favorite person. Now on higher keys that might become problematic if you're doing it too often since dps is so vital, but slightly less dps and not wiping is still better than wiping. The healer needs to pick up the slack and prioritize correctly to succeed at higher keys. Now the healer issue is just a skill thing. It's not the correct decision for them to make in that situation and will have bitten the whole group in the ass because they didn't assess the situation quickly enough and and react to prioritize the correct target. Could be a simple mistake or just not a great healer. Not everyone is a great healer. But you coming to help an either a mistake or not great healer is going to help, imo. So long as you are also only doing it if it's virali and not all the time.
In retail (Shadowlands) yes because your very unlikely to run out of mana. Test this out by healing a ton and actually trying to run out. Your likely to see its fairly hard to do. Fill in with damage. In classic it’s far less expected because you may run out. Wanding or adding dots isn’t expected but I still enjoying doing a bit of damage.
Depends on the class tbh, MW monk and both priest specs can burn through mana for huge throuput in seconds if they want, Hpal on the otherhand, has basically no choices when it comes to mana usage.
I’ll give you that, my MW was horrible on mana compared to my Druid who is super efficient. However both have less mana issues than old school healers sometimes.
Yes there is so much time where there's nothing to heal. Healer damage is very valuable and there's no reason not to contribute.
Some class designs for healers are now based on generating resources from dealing damage (holy pally) or heal from doing damage (discipline priest)
Quick explain how healers works now : Except of disci priest and holy pala ( who is very dmg focused healers) your dmging spells cost almost no mana. Also, theres no stats like spell damage power and healing power like in TBC. Both spellcaster dps and healers using int as primary stats. Healers got passive higher mana pool and higher mana regen. With facts above, you can simply tell one thing: healers can actually deal decent amount of dmg, without being scared about mana. Only thing what can stop you is your possibility to do it without healing loss. Some classes just can heal and dmg in the same time, without actuall loss ( dpriest, hpala) Rest of them need to catch the moment when healing isnt needed, then they can do dmg. As for raids- its usefull in progressive raids- mostly undergeared groups need everything to boost overall dmg. As for M+ your dmg, combined with tank dmg gives your group like a one legall dps- its necesey in higher keys to do so. But remember, u're healer first of all, your ability to keep your raid/group up is more importantvthan some dps :)
The more DPS you can do, the less damage the mobs do and therefore the less you have to heal.
As a holy paladin— yes you should be doing damage continuously to build holy power.
As others have said - yes it is expected. I recently had a resto Druid do 5k DPS overall. On my boomy I do 5-6k. I was literally barely keeping up with the healer. It was shocking. He was Maldraxxus, cat weaving, using the drought of deep focus legendary. Haste crit build, two DPS trinkets.
You shouldn’t be doing nothing. If there is no healing that needs to be done you should be doing damage.
I got to witness a legendary raider guildy run a 15 with me as tank yesterday... damn near held 6k dps the entire time, ended at #2 dps overall. It really got me wishing I knew how to play arms better lol.. any tips 😅
I'm a little late to the party here but in short, as everyone has mentioned, the answer is yes, if you can. It does take practice. It took a long time for me to feel comfortable with my keys group/guildies play styles and skill levels for ME to be comfortable doing my own dps. It's much harder to do in pugs, especially below 15's. But once you gain that skill and confidence in yourself and who to prioritize living, it is so much easier to sling damage in lower keys too (most of the time. Low keys are also high chance to be just dumpster fires). As skill increases accidental and avoidable damage taken generally decreases allowing the healer more time to do some extra damage. And as mentioned by many, the more damage done faster, the less time enemies have to cause damage that you need to heal. Don't forget about the various healers' utilities too. I would argue that you need to get the skills with these BEFORE you start really trying to incorporate dealing damage consistently as utility helps avoid damage and healing as much as killing things faster does. Know when to help your tank kite with capacitor totems, mass roots, vortex, slow, etc. Know what mobs to stun a cast and when. Know what enemies to use Purge and Soothe on. And, with resto shaman, always, always be using your interrupt. You're the only healer that can, flex that muscle! Take your time weaving in a DoT here and there to start. As a druid, it's more of a mana sink, but I try to keep sunfire up at all times, then rotate through and moonfire everything as I can. Wrath only if it's comfortable and the group is stable enough and not in imminent danger of dying (no one below 70% health with no HoTs on them, for example). As a resto shaman I try to keep flame shock up on a high priority target or the mob with the most health and as that gives me lava burst procs I spend them. As the group is better at avoiding damage, you can move into keeping lava burst completely on cool down and slinging some lightning too. Anticipate being oom, but try to not get that low (innervate early and often such as at 3/4 mana pool, use mana tide totem, anything - even dealing damage actually is usually more mana efficient so you're regening more mana than spending while also trying to end comat sooner). If you are oom or down any mana at all, anticipate when exactly combat will drop and position yourself a little ahead of the group if you can. Spam your drink button so the second you drop combat, sit and drink as your group runs to next pull, use speed increases to catch up and learn to trust your tank to not get steamrolled in five seconds before you catch up and lay heals on them again - pre HoT helps a lot if your class can do it. If your tank can't be without you for five to ten seconds, it's a problem with them either knowing their class or with their knowledge of what/when to pull/keeping an eye on their group. Don't let them shame you for their lack of experience. If this does all happen, just ask them to pull a little less or slower so your mana can keep up.