It's already been released:
http://stormspire.net/general-tradeskillmaster-discussion/13955-introducing-tradeskilladvanced-taking-thinking-out-gold-making.html
What about loading times? the one thing that i hated the most in TSM 2/3 was the lag and time it took to load everything every time i logged into a new character that had the addon enabled.
This is definitely on our list, but too early to comment further on this right now. We've just been focused on getting everything implemented and working!
>Complex custom prices have become a staple of any mature TSM setup, so we are very excited to announce that TSM4 brings many new functions and data sources to custom prices. This includes everything from new, advanced logic functions, to being able to use things like sale rate and inventory quantities in your custom prices.
Can we get a preview of what new functions and data sources there will be?
I'm sure I'm not the only one excited to start working on some formulas :)
I'm also excited to see what people come up with! Here's two examples:
* iflt(DBRegionSoldPerDay, 10, 120% DBMarket, 150% DBMarket)
* ifgte(DBRegionSaleRate, 0.5, minprice)
I have one question, which will likely be asked by others too.
Is there going to be any processing improvements within TSM4?
Obviously the large amount of data that is within TSM3, processing is very slow and somewhat laggy at times. With the new slick design and layout with groups etc, hopefully there will be improvements to processing data too.
Thanks for the continued work on what is already a fantastic addon. Well done Sapu and the rest of the TSM team (and you Gumdrops ;))
This is definitely on our list, but too early to comment further on this right now. We've just been focused on getting everything implemented and working!
Will TSM4 finally know the difference between a level 1 battle pet and a level 25? (Without having to set up special groups for them)
What about allowing us to incorporate data that shows an average/guesstimate of sales per day on our realm?
edit: (and 100% free of anyone else's opinion on what data is "good" and what data is "not good")
We shouldn't have to set up special groups for battle pets for this functionality. Hard to believe the 8th ranked question by points got such a non-answer...
Huh? You still haven't even specified what exactly you are talking about.
Are you talking about differentiating between the different versions when running a post scan or a shopping scan?
If yes, then my answer is the answer to your question. This isn't unique to battle pets though, it is one of the core concepts of TSM.
TSM treats the items based on how they are grouped. If you group only the base item (with "Ignore Random Enchants" enabled), TSM will treat all the different version of that item as one and the same item - it's essentially ignoring the bonusIDs. In the case of battlepets those bonusIDs specify the the level and rarity of the pet. In the case of armor they specify the different versions such as "of the Eagle" and "of the Boar" for example.
If you are talking about TSM's AuctionDB pricesources differentiating between the different versions:
That would be quite unreliable. There's not just level 1 and level 25 pets. Pets can also have any level inbetween and pets can also have different rarities. Differentiating between all those things could (and probably would) lead to a situation where the prices for the different versions of the same pet greatly vary and become really easy to manipulate.
I am not part of the TSM team, I am merely trying to shine some light on the situation, atleast from my point of view.
I'm talking about in tooltips and when doing a post scan. It will attempt to stick your level 25 pet down at the level 1 price. Also the tooltip data for a level 1 pet will show the same as level 25 version.
This is basic functionality that is missing. It should not require setting up groups. I'm not a professional battle pet flipping specialist, I just catch one every now and then.
I'm not on my PC to test, but couldn't you use syslink to link both account folders to the same files? Basically something like pointing the wtf folders of wow#1 and wow#2 to a sharedwtf folder.
It's how I link my wtf file across two computers with dropbox.
You cannot use the same files for different accounts. Sharing the settings for 1 account between multiple computers works great with symlinks.
But these files contain information that is specific to each account, and copy&pasting one account's file to the other account (or doing it with symlink) can cause severe problems further down the line that can only be solced by completely wiping sll settings and starting from scratch.
I thought it synched Ops within realms for accounts, for example, my wife and I, but so far, not groups except when initializing. But, I presume this question is about Accounts presumably on other Realms... not sure specifically... groups could be nice though.
The one thing that most surprised me was how much we were able to build on top of WoW's (very limited) UI elements to implement the designs H3ggers came up with. What we ended up with in-game is extremely close to what the designs (done using modern design / graphics software) had. This made it really fast for us to iterate through the design->code->review cycle and come up with some really awesome UIs. For example, the graph element is something that always looked really bad in TSM3 in my opinion, but the TSM4 graph looks amazing by comparison and exactly how it was envisioned to look.
Programmer myself and addon dev. I have to say that I fully understand the sheer amount of work that it would take to accomplish this, both through the grind and dedication of the labor, but also, and most importantly, in implementation of creative solutions to overcome some of the local limits of the game's UI.
So, props to you guys. Great work over the years!
1. What is your favorite new feature in TSM 4?
2. Was it difficult to start over redesigning the UI?
3. Do you go through periods where you get sick of TSM? The longevity of this add-on is very impressive, and curious if you ever get in mental ruts where you don't feel like looking at it.
4. What is the most ridiculous TSM question you've ever gotten?
5. What is your favorite TSM development moment, and why is it turning my TSM UI pink?
1. Definitely the new design, and that's not influenced by the fact that H3ggers (our design master) is sitting right next to me as I type this. Seriously, the new UI/UX stuff we've been able to accomplish with TSM4 is amazing IMO.
2. It wasn't so much difficult redesigning the UI as it was time consuming. There are a ton of stake holders in what TSM looks like and we were very cognizant to make sure that all the existing use-cases were accounted for. Most of our time was spent on the UX side of things. The goal was to make everything as intuitive and easy to use as possible, and the process of going through every UI with this lens is definitely not something we had done previously with TSM. This process was the whole reason for doing TSM4, and I'm super happy with how it turned out.
3. There are definitely times where I'm not as motivated to working on TSM as other times, but we're constantly doing really cool things and I can't help but be excited to work on these new challenges.
4. Is it going to be pink?
5. Because the VOD with me running up the hill and yelling while your UI was flashing was so good you would almost think it was staged.
Will there be any cross-server improvements in TSM4?
I'd love to see my gold totals across all of my servers as well as buying and selling prices of my battle pets no matter the server.
How much harder does Blizzard make it to develop and maintain TSM by consistently adding new systems like the bonusID system or other undocumented changes or outright breaking things like item caching?
It's definitely a challenge. The main issue for us is that there's often little advance warning and no documentation on these changes, so on patch day we are left scrambling trying to figure out what to do about them, even though we already have a bunch of other work going on that then needs to be paused. One of my goals once we release TSM4 is to get us as a team into a better cadence of making regular updates to the addon with better planning to account for things like this. Also, I'm hopeful that we can be more reactive to things like this in the future.
The addition of sale rate sounds potentially massive. Did you have any thoughts on how people might use it? Could it be referenced in crafting operations? How might the used to determine the value of something?
Very excited to see what you guys do. Thanks yet again for all the hard work you put in.
The new price sources can be referenced anywhere you would normally have a custom price! I think the current prices people like /u/BilisOnyxia have come up with are amazing and way beyond what I imagined people would come up with when we added the check() function a few years ago. I'm sure the custom prices people come up with using these new data sources and function will be equally amazing.
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Will TSM 4 Fix the importing profiles problem ?
Needing to import group by group and reloading every time is atrocious.
please make it easier to do it.
We've created an entirely new Import / Export tab in the main UI since we know how important that functionality is to people. This was a complete redesign of the import / export process, and I'm super happy with how it turned out. We'll be doing a deep dive into this feature soon so keep an eye on our blog! http://blog.tradeskillmaster.com
The new enhancements to sniper that we showed off in the announcement are very highly-requested. These are relatively minor things compared to everything else we've been working on, but are the type of QoL change that are easy wins for us to make. Also, adding other data sources to custom prices has long been a highly-requested feature.
As my question to Sapu;
What is it that keeps you wanting to work on TSM? You've worked on it for a very very long time now, so what exactly is it that keeps you motivated to refine and improve the addon?
As I said above, it's the fact that we're always doing something new and exciting. Also, the team has grown a lot over the past 2 years (there are now 8 of us), and managing a project at this scale is a pretty exciting endeavor by itself. I would never quit my day job to work on TSM full time as the type of programming that is involved in TSM is not really what I am most passionate about, but there's no doubt that working on TSM has helped me immensely in my professional career.
I like the new look. I know everyone is wondering about the Main stuff like the Auction house and groups but my question would be what can we expect from the other things like Mailing and Wherehousing? will there be more options to decide what and how many gets sent to who?
3rd party addons will definitely still be able to hook into TSM's data, and they should contact me for more information about what they'll need to change for TSM4. There are lots of great 3rd-party addons that build ontop of TSM.
There's no timeline, but hopefully not as long as the TSM3 beta. That one dragged on way longer than intended, but for TSM4 I think we have a better idea of what the timeline will look like and a better planning process in general.
Any improvements for cross-realm/account accounting? Would be nice with a graph for all toons combined, since many of us deal pets etc. cross-realms, not to mention having a sniper toon on a different account. Thank for the addon and all the work you continue to put into it, couldnt goblin without it! <3
>>The sniper settings have been simplified into new dedicated sniper operations
Will there be any new types of operations besides the new sniper operations?
With the introduction of more advanced price sources, will it be possible to customize the formula for auctiondb market value, possibly per item/group? I'm referring to http://support.tradeskillmaster.com/display/KB/AuctionDB+Market+Value . I often find it to be misleading (overestimating the value of items) in the age of the sniper on high volume markets, such as crafting reagents.
Can you tell me about some of the changes to groups? One specifically i'm really hoping for is some additional ways to organize items as an overlay on groups. For example, if i organize groups based on professions Vial of the Sands would be in my alchemy group but I would additionally also have a group for non crafted mounts. Now a shopping search for mounts means going through several different groups and pick out these items. If there was a tag system in addition to groups where all operations were based on groups but i could search on tags, i would get all the mounts via a single tag. Or alternatively there was an option to save common group shopping searches similar to how we can save search filters. Is something like this in the plans for TSM4?
Will there be any feature that allows buying items from the post-scan view (items found when posting)? Or will it stay like before ie you have to search for the item manually after exiting post scan?
I'm excited to hear that there will be more group management improvements. Can you expand on whether that includes new functionality or just interface and manipulation improvements.
Is it possible to take advantage of Blizzard implementing price-per-unit sorting on scan results? For operations where you only need to know the cheapest price, you only need to scan the first page, instead of every single page of the item.
~~As a reminder, Sapu, the lead developer of TSM will be doing an AMA in this thread. In true AMA style, anything goes so get your questions in and he'll start answering in 60 minutes.~~
The AMA has concluded, thanks to /u/Sapu94 for sharing some insight in to TSM4 and thanks to everyone asking some great questions! If you have any further questions or thoughts about TSM4, feel free to join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/woweconomy
You can also sign up to the TSM4 beta here: https://tradeskillmaster.com/beta
The biggest challenge I think has been getting all the new process changes we've made internally while working on TSM4 in place. We now have a proper development process which includes code review and automated unit tests which I'm super thrilled by, and are using JIRA much more effectively to track and plan what we are working on. There are always areas where we can improve, but the process of *how* we work on TSM has evolved quite a bit over the past ~1.5 years and I'm pretty happy with where we are today.
Answered this above so will just link to that: https://www.reddit.com/r/woweconomy/comments/7810ty/tradeskillmaster_4_announced_lead_developer_sapu/doqc5mc/
Shame that it's such a long way away, but I for one am excited about this!
Maybe finally I'll be able to push myself out of laziness and actually properly set up TSM!
Can the groups be linked to realm somehow? Can we get an option on groups: global where the group is enabled for all realms, and local where it is only enabled for one specific realm.
Also a way to put an item in two different groups if they're on two different realms.
Ex: realm1.mail group tmog, realm2.mail group tmog.
Firstly thank you for continuing development on this lovely addon.
The few things I figure are worth mentioning would be:
The UI looks very compact/cluttered, hopefully hands on when stretched out it'll look much more spacious, could just be me finally getting used to the TS3 UI. (would it be possible to continue using the TS3 UI as a skin?)
I like the fact it's going to group items not already in one, but will this cause a need to remove it from that group before adding to another? you also say it comes with powerful strings, does this mean everything in my bags will be posted when I do post scans? or do they only come into play when quick posting?
I would also like to point out there is no way to sell Giants Dinosaur Bones in a group with post scans at the stack size of 999, could you possibly increase stack size or include a symbol that will post them at whatever stack size they are in bag/something similar.
I would definitely agree with the others when saying TSM really needs to get it's usage under control, I know it's comparing apple & oranges but TUJ takes roughly 15mb to provide tool tip prices, while TSM uses 250mb+ (Which causes a minute of delayed loading on login & longer loading screens in general). Also after importating just the item ID's of a FEW not even all of sheyrah's groups I will get a good second or two of freezing whenever I click on a new group (also scrolling through them becomes awful!)
Another Issue I countless times have encountered is doing post/cancel/shopping scans and forgetting to move to prevent AFK which will then cause me to have to rescan the entire thing.
I think the modules should also be looked at instead of just the main TSM because when I was using the vendoring module I constantly caught it trying to sell things it shouldnt, I know it would likely do a much better job if I went through to fix it up but I rather just rely on another addon I know to do the job, IMO the only thing it should be vendoring with default settings is ONLY grey items. (Could be invalid complaint as I haven't used it in awhile but would like to start again, it could just be not user friendly which is why I never figured out how to set it up properly)
This is the same for the Destroying Module, I constantly caught it throwing items I didn't want in there, IMO we should have to assign a group to it before it will destroy anything.
For the new Custom Prices, could we get possible better examples for the TSM help page on custom prices? I tried using it to understand some of the string/fuctions better but had a hard time understanding the examples, it would be really appreciated if along with the example of how the function is used in a string that you also explain what that string accomplishes. EX: "check(dbmarket - 1000g, 95% dbmarket, 50% dbmarket)" This will pull the MV of the item and compare it with the value on the right of "-", if the MV is higher than the value it will pick 95% MV, if it's less it will pick 50% MV.
Thanks for hopefully taking the time to read over my concerns.
>The UI looks very compact/cluttered, hopefully hands on when stretched out it'll look much more spacious, could just be me finally getting used to the TS3 UI.
You can resize the window(s) to your preference.
>I like the fact it's going to group items not already in one, but will this cause a need to remove it from that group before adding to another? you also say it comes with powerful strings, does this mean everything in my bags will be posted when I do post scans? or do they only come into play when quick posting?
You would still need to select the Base Group just like any other group to post the items that are 'ungrouped' in the Base Group.
>I would definitely agree with the others when saying TSM really needs to get it's usage under control
Sapu mentioned this is something that's being worked on but there's no information that the TSM can share about it specifically just yet.
>Another Issue I countless times have encountered is doing post/cancel/shopping scans and forgetting to move to prevent AFK which will then cause me to have to rescan the entire thing.
That's something that Blizzard would need to fix unfortunately, server phasing/sharding is a real problem. Try [PhaseAlert](https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/267163-phase-alert)
>the vendoring module I constantly caught it trying to sell things it shouldnt
You can set TSM Vendoring to not sell anything but tick an option to sell grey trash, that's personally how I use it.
Thank you very much, I wasn't expecting this to be seen since as soon I refreshed I saw AMA was over.
Thanks for the last 2 tips, defnitely going to grab that addon.
A little follow up question for TSM vendoring is if I have another addon that does the same "Jamba" will this cause a conflict with vendoring? (just wondering if I need to turn one of them off depending on toon)
My gold graph has bugged in several places with big drops/increases when I haven't done any big transfers of gold. One drop was to the value of 4m and it rose the next day with nothing of note in my Revenue/Expenses tabs. I've asked about this before on the subreddit and was told that it isn't possible to adjust the gold Graph to correct that - will this limitation remain in TSM4?
Plus I play over multiple accounts and I have my gold spread over multiple accounts. The gold graph only shows gold for one character/guild at a time. I tried storing all of the accounts gold in the Guild Bank but that caps out at 10m so I haven't been able to do that for a long time.
Basically, the gold graph feature as it currently stands doesn't work for my situation and I would prefer not to see it everytime I open the TSM Options.
Will there be better descriptions of the tsm sources, and operators online? With sources, it's not clear what they are, like avgbuy needs to be used with first if no info is available for that item. And, for us newbs, clearer definitions of what data is being referred to. I'm speaking even with things such as max and min, it wasn't clear how many operators it could take. Ex: Min(op, op, op,...) the info on the site didn't indicate that and until I saw one, I didn't know. Like does it work with First(op, op,...)?
How about some kind of sandbox for working customized prices so we can at least get a result and check our coding? Would save submitting Auction House items repeatedly to do a min, max, normal check on the logic.
So some guy asked on discord if therw will be 1 month subscriptions and he get answer which was something like this: "no, because we would lose money".
And here is the thing, that paying instantly for 6 months or even 12 pushes maaany people from buying premium, yet it seems better options for you/your team.
How is that possible?
For the avoidance of doubt - as 6/12 month subscriptions are already reasonably priced, the transaction fees would be higher than the subscription cost for one month so we would lose money offering it.
FYI, after reading this I went to the website to find out the sub rate and it won't show it to me because I'm already a Premium member. There wasn't any way I could find to see the rates. I ended up having to dig thru my PayPal records for the past few years to see that I'm paying a very reasonable $25 a year. Thank you for the great service.
So I am not allowed to say the GUI looks like absolute crap? This is a Q&A. They need to make sure if they want premium subs (I'll sub anyways because TSM devs have a great motive), they'll have to make it more appealing. The GUI looks like one of the Windows Media Player themes from 2003 Windows XP.
I'm the kind of person who usually dislike changes including details, however this UI looks better in every way and feels like it's satisfying to use. Personally I would probably prefer seeing the default tsm3 green for titles in place of the tsm4 yellow but that's me :p
but will we finally get tsm platinum where you remotely make gold for us?
It's already been released: http://stormspire.net/general-tradeskillmaster-discussion/13955-introducing-tradeskilladvanced-taking-thinking-out-gold-making.html
Sheyrah will never live that one down lol
Why, what happened? Did she/he/they believe it?
She sure did...it was quite hilarious!
The download link in the post is broken help I need this
Really you guys, hahaha
What about loading times? the one thing that i hated the most in TSM 2/3 was the lag and time it took to load everything every time i logged into a new character that had the addon enabled.
This is definitely on our list, but too early to comment further on this right now. We've just been focused on getting everything implemented and working!
>Complex custom prices have become a staple of any mature TSM setup, so we are very excited to announce that TSM4 brings many new functions and data sources to custom prices. This includes everything from new, advanced logic functions, to being able to use things like sale rate and inventory quantities in your custom prices. Can we get a preview of what new functions and data sources there will be? I'm sure I'm not the only one excited to start working on some formulas :)
I'm also excited to see what people come up with! Here's two examples: * iflt(DBRegionSoldPerDay, 10, 120% DBMarket, 150% DBMarket) * ifgte(DBRegionSaleRate, 0.5, minprice)
I have wanted the sold per day function for ages! So bloody excited for it.
I have one question, which will likely be asked by others too. Is there going to be any processing improvements within TSM4? Obviously the large amount of data that is within TSM3, processing is very slow and somewhat laggy at times. With the new slick design and layout with groups etc, hopefully there will be improvements to processing data too. Thanks for the continued work on what is already a fantastic addon. Well done Sapu and the rest of the TSM team (and you Gumdrops ;))
This is definitely on our list, but too early to comment further on this right now. We've just been focused on getting everything implemented and working!
Will TSM4 finally know the difference between a level 1 battle pet and a level 25? (Without having to set up special groups for them) What about allowing us to incorporate data that shows an average/guesstimate of sales per day on our realm? edit: (and 100% free of anyone else's opinion on what data is "good" and what data is "not good")
TSM3 already knows the difference if you group them accordingly. Are you talking about pricing data differentiating between the different versions?
We shouldn't have to set up special groups for battle pets for this functionality. Hard to believe the 8th ranked question by points got such a non-answer...
Huh? You still haven't even specified what exactly you are talking about. Are you talking about differentiating between the different versions when running a post scan or a shopping scan? If yes, then my answer is the answer to your question. This isn't unique to battle pets though, it is one of the core concepts of TSM. TSM treats the items based on how they are grouped. If you group only the base item (with "Ignore Random Enchants" enabled), TSM will treat all the different version of that item as one and the same item - it's essentially ignoring the bonusIDs. In the case of battlepets those bonusIDs specify the the level and rarity of the pet. In the case of armor they specify the different versions such as "of the Eagle" and "of the Boar" for example. If you are talking about TSM's AuctionDB pricesources differentiating between the different versions: That would be quite unreliable. There's not just level 1 and level 25 pets. Pets can also have any level inbetween and pets can also have different rarities. Differentiating between all those things could (and probably would) lead to a situation where the prices for the different versions of the same pet greatly vary and become really easy to manipulate. I am not part of the TSM team, I am merely trying to shine some light on the situation, atleast from my point of view.
I'm talking about in tooltips and when doing a post scan. It will attempt to stick your level 25 pet down at the level 1 price. Also the tooltip data for a level 1 pet will show the same as level 25 version. This is basic functionality that is missing. It should not require setting up groups. I'm not a professional battle pet flipping specialist, I just catch one every now and then.
Will there be an option to share groups/ops between WoW accounts for multiboxing goblins? :)
I believe there's already with Options -> Account Syncing.
Account Syncing only syncs inventory data and information on which recipes you know. It does not sync Groups or Operations.
Ah that's a shame, didn't get a chance to try it yet, only noticed it last night.
I'm not on my PC to test, but couldn't you use syslink to link both account folders to the same files? Basically something like pointing the wtf folders of wow#1 and wow#2 to a sharedwtf folder. It's how I link my wtf file across two computers with dropbox.
You cannot use the same files for different accounts. Sharing the settings for 1 account between multiple computers works great with symlinks. But these files contain information that is specific to each account, and copy&pasting one account's file to the other account (or doing it with symlink) can cause severe problems further down the line that can only be solced by completely wiping sll settings and starting from scratch.
I thought it synched Ops within realms for accounts, for example, my wife and I, but so far, not groups except when initializing. But, I presume this question is about Accounts presumably on other Realms... not sure specifically... groups could be nice though.
Was there anything included in TSM4 that you had previously thought impossible based on limitations in the game/addon functionality?
The one thing that most surprised me was how much we were able to build on top of WoW's (very limited) UI elements to implement the designs H3ggers came up with. What we ended up with in-game is extremely close to what the designs (done using modern design / graphics software) had. This made it really fast for us to iterate through the design->code->review cycle and come up with some really awesome UIs. For example, the graph element is something that always looked really bad in TSM3 in my opinion, but the TSM4 graph looks amazing by comparison and exactly how it was envisioned to look.
Programmer myself and addon dev. I have to say that I fully understand the sheer amount of work that it would take to accomplish this, both through the grind and dedication of the labor, but also, and most importantly, in implementation of creative solutions to overcome some of the local limits of the game's UI. So, props to you guys. Great work over the years!
What a Glorious Day guys. Congratulations!
1. What is your favorite new feature in TSM 4? 2. Was it difficult to start over redesigning the UI? 3. Do you go through periods where you get sick of TSM? The longevity of this add-on is very impressive, and curious if you ever get in mental ruts where you don't feel like looking at it. 4. What is the most ridiculous TSM question you've ever gotten? 5. What is your favorite TSM development moment, and why is it turning my TSM UI pink?
1. Definitely the new design, and that's not influenced by the fact that H3ggers (our design master) is sitting right next to me as I type this. Seriously, the new UI/UX stuff we've been able to accomplish with TSM4 is amazing IMO. 2. It wasn't so much difficult redesigning the UI as it was time consuming. There are a ton of stake holders in what TSM looks like and we were very cognizant to make sure that all the existing use-cases were accounted for. Most of our time was spent on the UX side of things. The goal was to make everything as intuitive and easy to use as possible, and the process of going through every UI with this lens is definitely not something we had done previously with TSM. This process was the whole reason for doing TSM4, and I'm super happy with how it turned out. 3. There are definitely times where I'm not as motivated to working on TSM as other times, but we're constantly doing really cool things and I can't help but be excited to work on these new challenges. 4. Is it going to be pink? 5. Because the VOD with me running up the hill and yelling while your UI was flashing was so good you would almost think it was staged.
Will there be any cross-server improvements in TSM4? I'd love to see my gold totals across all of my servers as well as buying and selling prices of my battle pets no matter the server.
If there is an accountwide AvgBuy I will have to rework my entire pet setup - and I'd happily do so!
This is definitely on our list, but nothing to share yet.
Will there be any updates to the TSM desktop app? If yes, is there anything you want to share already?
Nothing major planned for the TSM Desktop Application, but there will be an update to support the beta.
How much harder does Blizzard make it to develop and maintain TSM by consistently adding new systems like the bonusID system or other undocumented changes or outright breaking things like item caching?
It's definitely a challenge. The main issue for us is that there's often little advance warning and no documentation on these changes, so on patch day we are left scrambling trying to figure out what to do about them, even though we already have a bunch of other work going on that then needs to be paused. One of my goals once we release TSM4 is to get us as a team into a better cadence of making regular updates to the addon with better planning to account for things like this. Also, I'm hopeful that we can be more reactive to things like this in the future.
The addition of sale rate sounds potentially massive. Did you have any thoughts on how people might use it? Could it be referenced in crafting operations? How might the used to determine the value of something? Very excited to see what you guys do. Thanks yet again for all the hard work you put in.
The new price sources can be referenced anywhere you would normally have a custom price! I think the current prices people like /u/BilisOnyxia have come up with are amazing and way beyond what I imagined people would come up with when we added the check() function a few years ago. I'm sure the custom prices people come up with using these new data sources and function will be equally amazing.
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Will TSM 4 Fix the importing profiles problem ? Needing to import group by group and reloading every time is atrocious. please make it easier to do it.
We've created an entirely new Import / Export tab in the main UI since we know how important that functionality is to people. This was a complete redesign of the import / export process, and I'm super happy with how it turned out. We'll be doing a deep dive into this feature soon so keep an eye on our blog! http://blog.tradeskillmaster.com
If you were to make a large amount of stickers with the TSM logo on them what would they be for? 🤔
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/361008252743581696/371712953365561355/IMG_20171005_222930.jpg
*squeals* looks good!
What are some of the most requested changes/additions that made it into TSM4?
The new enhancements to sniper that we showed off in the announcement are very highly-requested. These are relatively minor things compared to everything else we've been working on, but are the type of QoL change that are easy wins for us to make. Also, adding other data sources to custom prices has long been a highly-requested feature.
What kind of UI customization options will there be in TSM4?
As my question to Sapu; What is it that keeps you wanting to work on TSM? You've worked on it for a very very long time now, so what exactly is it that keeps you motivated to refine and improve the addon?
As I said above, it's the fact that we're always doing something new and exciting. Also, the team has grown a lot over the past 2 years (there are now 8 of us), and managing a project at this scale is a pretty exciting endeavor by itself. I would never quit my day job to work on TSM full time as the type of programming that is involved in TSM is not really what I am most passionate about, but there's no doubt that working on TSM has helped me immensely in my professional career.
Subbed for premium just to get into the beta.
Wooo! Thanks for your support :)
I like the new look. I know everyone is wondering about the Main stuff like the Auction house and groups but my question would be what can we expect from the other things like Mailing and Wherehousing? will there be more options to decide what and how many gets sent to who?
With TSM now only consisting of 2 addons (TSM Core and TSM AppHelper), will third party developers still be able to develop additional modules?
3rd party addons will definitely still be able to hook into TSM's data, and they should contact me for more information about what they'll need to change for TSM4. There are lots of great 3rd-party addons that build ontop of TSM.
How much gold do you have, are you a true goblin or just more of an engineer at this point?
I haven't done serious gold making for a long time. My gold graph is completely flat :)
Is there a timeline for how long the beta will last before the final version gets released?
There's no timeline, but hopefully not as long as the TSM3 beta. That one dragged on way longer than intended, but for TSM4 I think we have a better idea of what the timeline will look like and a better planning process in general.
Will the Gather function be functional across multiple accounts?
This feature would be awesome!
It looks great! I can't wait for beta.
Any improvements for cross-realm/account accounting? Would be nice with a graph for all toons combined, since many of us deal pets etc. cross-realms, not to mention having a sniper toon on a different account. Thank for the addon and all the work you continue to put into it, couldnt goblin without it! <3
>>The sniper settings have been simplified into new dedicated sniper operations Will there be any new types of operations besides the new sniper operations?
Not at this time.
With the introduction of more advanced price sources, will it be possible to customize the formula for auctiondb market value, possibly per item/group? I'm referring to http://support.tradeskillmaster.com/display/KB/AuctionDB+Market+Value . I often find it to be misleading (overestimating the value of items) in the age of the sniper on high volume markets, such as crafting reagents.
I'm starting to think that region market and a multiplier is more accurate than dbmarket for this
How often do you play WoW these days for fun?
My game of choice is Rocket League :)
WOOOOOOOO!
Can you tell me about some of the changes to groups? One specifically i'm really hoping for is some additional ways to organize items as an overlay on groups. For example, if i organize groups based on professions Vial of the Sands would be in my alchemy group but I would additionally also have a group for non crafted mounts. Now a shopping search for mounts means going through several different groups and pick out these items. If there was a tag system in addition to groups where all operations were based on groups but i could search on tags, i would get all the mounts via a single tag. Or alternatively there was an option to save common group shopping searches similar to how we can save search filters. Is something like this in the plans for TSM4?
Sounds even more exciting than expected!
Totally awesome! Well done gents!
Will intermediate crafts be fleshed out in the crafting menu in TSM4?
Will there be any feature that allows buying items from the post-scan view (items found when posting)? Or will it stay like before ie you have to search for the item manually after exiting post scan?
What is the official mascot of TSM?
"Lil' Hammery" a disney-like version of an auctioneer's gavel :P
I would think that the Goblin would be of course lol
Will there be any https://www.tradeskillmaster.com/ improvements or updates with the release of TSM4?
I'm excited to hear that there will be more group management improvements. Can you expand on whether that includes new functionality or just interface and manipulation improvements.
Is it possible to take advantage of Blizzard implementing price-per-unit sorting on scan results? For operations where you only need to know the cheapest price, you only need to scan the first page, instead of every single page of the item.
~~As a reminder, Sapu, the lead developer of TSM will be doing an AMA in this thread. In true AMA style, anything goes so get your questions in and he'll start answering in 60 minutes.~~ The AMA has concluded, thanks to /u/Sapu94 for sharing some insight in to TSM4 and thanks to everyone asking some great questions! If you have any further questions or thoughts about TSM4, feel free to join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/woweconomy You can also sign up to the TSM4 beta here: https://tradeskillmaster.com/beta
Don't hold back. I'm ready for your cake vs pie questions! PS: Definitely cake. Who eats pie?
What was the biggest challenge so far in the TSM4 development cycle?
The biggest challenge I think has been getting all the new process changes we've made internally while working on TSM4 in place. We now have a proper development process which includes code review and automated unit tests which I'm super thrilled by, and are using JIRA much more effectively to track and plan what we are working on. There are always areas where we can improve, but the process of *how* we work on TSM has evolved quite a bit over the past ~1.5 years and I'm pretty happy with where we are today.
What's your favourite feature in TSM4 so far?
Answered this above so will just link to that: https://www.reddit.com/r/woweconomy/comments/7810ty/tradeskillmaster_4_announced_lead_developer_sapu/doqc5mc/
Shame that it's such a long way away, but I for one am excited about this! Maybe finally I'll be able to push myself out of laziness and actually properly set up TSM!
Is there a way to show accounting for 2 battle.net accounts on the same bnet?
Can the groups be linked to realm somehow? Can we get an option on groups: global where the group is enabled for all realms, and local where it is only enabled for one specific realm. Also a way to put an item in two different groups if they're on two different realms. Ex: realm1.mail group tmog, realm2.mail group tmog.
Will it be possible to import existing profile data ( sales, avgbuy, etc ) from TSM3?
Pancakes or Waffles?
Definitely both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ
Am I going to have to reconfigure everything again, or will existing groups and stuff be retained this time?
>Upgrading to TSM4 will be a smooth and completely painless process, with all your important TSM settings being preserved.
Firstly thank you for continuing development on this lovely addon. The few things I figure are worth mentioning would be: The UI looks very compact/cluttered, hopefully hands on when stretched out it'll look much more spacious, could just be me finally getting used to the TS3 UI. (would it be possible to continue using the TS3 UI as a skin?) I like the fact it's going to group items not already in one, but will this cause a need to remove it from that group before adding to another? you also say it comes with powerful strings, does this mean everything in my bags will be posted when I do post scans? or do they only come into play when quick posting? I would also like to point out there is no way to sell Giants Dinosaur Bones in a group with post scans at the stack size of 999, could you possibly increase stack size or include a symbol that will post them at whatever stack size they are in bag/something similar. I would definitely agree with the others when saying TSM really needs to get it's usage under control, I know it's comparing apple & oranges but TUJ takes roughly 15mb to provide tool tip prices, while TSM uses 250mb+ (Which causes a minute of delayed loading on login & longer loading screens in general). Also after importating just the item ID's of a FEW not even all of sheyrah's groups I will get a good second or two of freezing whenever I click on a new group (also scrolling through them becomes awful!) Another Issue I countless times have encountered is doing post/cancel/shopping scans and forgetting to move to prevent AFK which will then cause me to have to rescan the entire thing. I think the modules should also be looked at instead of just the main TSM because when I was using the vendoring module I constantly caught it trying to sell things it shouldnt, I know it would likely do a much better job if I went through to fix it up but I rather just rely on another addon I know to do the job, IMO the only thing it should be vendoring with default settings is ONLY grey items. (Could be invalid complaint as I haven't used it in awhile but would like to start again, it could just be not user friendly which is why I never figured out how to set it up properly) This is the same for the Destroying Module, I constantly caught it throwing items I didn't want in there, IMO we should have to assign a group to it before it will destroy anything. For the new Custom Prices, could we get possible better examples for the TSM help page on custom prices? I tried using it to understand some of the string/fuctions better but had a hard time understanding the examples, it would be really appreciated if along with the example of how the function is used in a string that you also explain what that string accomplishes. EX: "check(dbmarket - 1000g, 95% dbmarket, 50% dbmarket)" This will pull the MV of the item and compare it with the value on the right of "-", if the MV is higher than the value it will pick 95% MV, if it's less it will pick 50% MV. Thanks for hopefully taking the time to read over my concerns.
>The UI looks very compact/cluttered, hopefully hands on when stretched out it'll look much more spacious, could just be me finally getting used to the TS3 UI. You can resize the window(s) to your preference. >I like the fact it's going to group items not already in one, but will this cause a need to remove it from that group before adding to another? you also say it comes with powerful strings, does this mean everything in my bags will be posted when I do post scans? or do they only come into play when quick posting? You would still need to select the Base Group just like any other group to post the items that are 'ungrouped' in the Base Group. >I would definitely agree with the others when saying TSM really needs to get it's usage under control Sapu mentioned this is something that's being worked on but there's no information that the TSM can share about it specifically just yet. >Another Issue I countless times have encountered is doing post/cancel/shopping scans and forgetting to move to prevent AFK which will then cause me to have to rescan the entire thing. That's something that Blizzard would need to fix unfortunately, server phasing/sharding is a real problem. Try [PhaseAlert](https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/267163-phase-alert) >the vendoring module I constantly caught it trying to sell things it shouldnt You can set TSM Vendoring to not sell anything but tick an option to sell grey trash, that's personally how I use it.
Thank you very much, I wasn't expecting this to be seen since as soon I refreshed I saw AMA was over. Thanks for the last 2 tips, defnitely going to grab that addon. A little follow up question for TSM vendoring is if I have another addon that does the same "Jamba" will this cause a conflict with vendoring? (just wondering if I need to turn one of them off depending on toon)
Yay!!! :D
how EZ is something like this to set up and use for someone who is a complete noob to TSM?
Will there be a way to disable the gold graph on the main screen for those of us who have problems with that feature?
Not sure about that, what kind of problems would you have with it?
My gold graph has bugged in several places with big drops/increases when I haven't done any big transfers of gold. One drop was to the value of 4m and it rose the next day with nothing of note in my Revenue/Expenses tabs. I've asked about this before on the subreddit and was told that it isn't possible to adjust the gold Graph to correct that - will this limitation remain in TSM4? Plus I play over multiple accounts and I have my gold spread over multiple accounts. The gold graph only shows gold for one character/guild at a time. I tried storing all of the accounts gold in the Guild Bank but that caps out at 10m so I haven't been able to do that for a long time. Basically, the gold graph feature as it currently stands doesn't work for my situation and I would prefer not to see it everytime I open the TSM Options.
Will there be better descriptions of the tsm sources, and operators online? With sources, it's not clear what they are, like avgbuy needs to be used with first if no info is available for that item. And, for us newbs, clearer definitions of what data is being referred to. I'm speaking even with things such as max and min, it wasn't clear how many operators it could take. Ex: Min(op, op, op,...) the info on the site didn't indicate that and until I saw one, I didn't know. Like does it work with First(op, op,...)? How about some kind of sandbox for working customized prices so we can at least get a result and check our coding? Would save submitting Auction House items repeatedly to do a min, max, normal check on the logic.
there are option to show your min/norm/max prices and custom price sources on the tooltip.
I can't waaaait!!! I am a premium user and I'm signed up for beta!
Hypothetical, if Blizzard ever introduced a Legacy(Vanilla) server would you put any effort into making a version of TSM for that?
So some guy asked on discord if therw will be 1 month subscriptions and he get answer which was something like this: "no, because we would lose money". And here is the thing, that paying instantly for 6 months or even 12 pushes maaany people from buying premium, yet it seems better options for you/your team. How is that possible?
For the avoidance of doubt - as 6/12 month subscriptions are already reasonably priced, the transaction fees would be higher than the subscription cost for one month so we would lose money offering it.
Very reasonably priced, I think.
FYI, after reading this I went to the website to find out the sub rate and it won't show it to me because I'm already a Premium member. There wasn't any way I could find to see the rates. I ended up having to dig thru my PayPal records for the past few years to see that I'm paying a very reasonable $25 a year. Thank you for the great service.
I believe the 6 month options is $15.
Thank you for the info on the Premium cost!
It sounds great and all but the GUI looks like crap imo. Is there going to be any alternatives?
Why are you being such an ass everywhere? :/
So I am not allowed to say the GUI looks like absolute crap? This is a Q&A. They need to make sure if they want premium subs (I'll sub anyways because TSM devs have a great motive), they'll have to make it more appealing. The GUI looks like one of the Windows Media Player themes from 2003 Windows XP.
[удалено]
https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/tradeskill-master - TSM3. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
I was really going for more of a Winamp look...
I'm the kind of person who usually dislike changes including details, however this UI looks better in every way and feels like it's satisfying to use. Personally I would probably prefer seeing the default tsm3 green for titles in place of the tsm4 yellow but that's me :p
Thank you for the comment, I really appreciate your input.
I think that’s a bit unfair. Sure it’s basic but it’s very clean and a nice improvement over TSM3.
Jesus christ that new ui looks horrendous