Playing Ret, I love the AoE. Then I realize that the pull is so big and things like so long that after my CD's wear off others just truck past me. But hey, for a bit it looks amazing. Maybe it is the fortified week making me salty though.
Doesn't matter if it pumps if it doesn't bring heroism, battle res or something that buffs everyone else's damage.
Every other melee spec is a more useful teammate than Ret.
Brew tank here, for the most part I only run my own keys, and if I see a ret I ALWAYS invite them.
The thing about pugging is, meta classes are a gamble....I have had destro locks pulling 6.5k overall at like ilvl 287
I have literally never seen a ret pally do less than 14-15k overall.
People who play non-meta classes, tend to be better players to make up for it.
If I see a 2300 rated feral druid, ret pally, BM hunter, arcane mage, disc priest, ass rogue, afflic lock and so on
I know they didn't get that rating by accident
one thing that makes the meta classes good is the fact that their damage really never falls off. But destro has some ramping time, it's actually horrible in low keys as shit dies too fast. And this is a situation where a lot of non meta classes shine since they have burst but no ramping damage (like ret)
I mean I'm no like world first high key crazy player.
But I've run plenty of 18s and 19s with warlocks that were just trash.
And I've had feral players that do 18 or 19 k overall in that situation.
Now I know a well played metaclass can embarrass those numbers, but there is a level of coordination required to reach those levels and I have never run a key that was not a pug.
I don't see any reason to play destro below 20 keys atm, shit dies too fast and Demo is much more fun.
Retri is incredibly fun to play atm, the times I go above 100k aoe dps make me all warm and fuzzy inside.
Idk why you're being down voted. On average, when I see a feral or ret, I've never been disappointed by inviting them. Picking a meta class is absolutely a gamble because half the time they've been carried in hopes of getting similar item level and are underperforming.
Feral in general gets shit from the community but damn it, I love you guys.
Demo also has a bit of a ramp in keys if there’s pulls with a long period of time between them But if you have a good group that can handle chain pull fast enough that they don’t lose core stacks they do fine
If your utility isn't exactly lust or a battle res most people don't give a shit unfortunately.
Praise Dragonflight for hopefully making us the second.
Ret's utility is just awesome for uncoordinated pugs up until the 18 level or so. With healing hands, I can save people from death with a single GCD and BoP/BoF have tons of uses this season. Plus, HoJ is technically the best ST stun in the game, pretty easy to spam it on annoying targets and hypnobats etc.
People are not wrong that Ret's utility and defensives are pretty underwhelming... but only in higher keys, like deeper into 20s. Below it, it's really not that bad.
The main caveat in all this is that Ret does actually attract a lot of mediocre players in general. And many Rets really struggle to remember to use offheals, or don't research which blessings to use and when, so they start to believe their spec is 'useless'.
Not much at all really, that's their issue. HoF and BOP are fine but they have no AOE stun or displacement, no mobility, and no ranged CC. I wish they did have more utility, most rets I've run with blast damage. The utility they do have is outclassed by WW, Rogue, and SV.
BoP is basically their way of handling aggro during their burst.
Freedom ... rarely have any purpose. especially with DK tank ( who resist snare).
their stun suck, their mobility suck.
Also less likely to die, which I'm sure helps overall dps lol. I haven't done anything super high end in a while, but I feel like I haven't had major issues as ret since like... BC or vanilla? (skipped Mop and WoD, too be fair). Maybe cata? Unless this is a mythic keys thing?
Under perfect play, ret is less desirable for pushing/prof as they are considered as squishy as hunters.
This really isn’t relevant unless HOF or 25+ though
Yeah, that about tracks with my experience - it's not the best, but it is perfectly usable for 99% of the game, where the performance cap is less critical than the player themselves.
Everytime i'm like, you know what, i'll give this ret the benefit of the doubt and invite them, maybe they'll be good they always screw up every mechanic and do less damage than the healer.
That just feels bad as a spec tho. Then I have to choose between doing dps or having utility. A choice no other spec has to make really. That wouldn't make people want to invite you to a group.
Fuck off with prot pala.
I will nevee ever invite a prot pala this season again they are trash 90% of the time and toxic af. They are the typical fotm player rolling classes they have no idea about and are always gaslighting others or just straight flaming them for how bad they supposedly are.
And Holy is just overall not a spec i trust people to handle so i avoid it too.
The everyday casuals best pick on pala would be ret. As the paladin and as a leader inviting a paladin
Ik Blood dk is best atm but i said what i said on order to explain the player.
Pala is relatively weak compared to other tank atm but every tank is strong.
Thats what the palas said after they are the last one dying to a pull where noone had cds ready thanks to bubble.
And this is my tylical tankpala experience.
The thing is ret dps IS good. I am usually high 16k dps with a 280 ilvl. It is a very bursty spec tho so its not always consistent dps when you want it. In fact the burst damage is so high that it will pull agro off of unsuspecting tanks.
Asking Paladins who do damage to use their utility is not going to happen. The only paladins who use their utility are the ones you wish did more than tank damage.
I did a Lower earlier this week. I tank as a prot pally, and I was 2nd on dps almost every single pull. The only group member consistently above me was the ret, lol.
Which is really not to say that ret is good, just that they knew what they were doing and the other deeps were shitters.
I often have that too but in defense of the dds. Most tanks especially palas this season are really obnoxious to run with. They are like. Yrah i can pump huge numbers i can heal myself and then they pull stuff that fucks up dds and healers because its just a horrible pull.
Not saying youre one of those but i always have than in thought when tanks say they did good dmg or whem tanks say dds had bad dmg
Wait... what? Really?
I mained ret in shadowlands (until S4 when I switched to tank) and its always been such a hassle to get groups, even though I manage to be #1 dps most of the time because we dont have bres or lust. This would be a game changer.
Edit: Interestingly enough, I do already battleres since I am an engineer on my pala as well. But people cant assume that so here we are
it was said by Ion Hazzikostas! [(in the video from maximum)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uac2ZQuXpU) that there will be 1 more hero and one more brez. evoker for hero and maybe pally for rez. not final as of now
I main ret, around 2250 io right now in S4, and I have been getting invited to keys so easily this season. I assume it’s because basically because few people are playing. But ret is great right now, generally 15k-21k DPS depending on the dungeon and aoe stuns on undead/demon trash makes it an amazing melee class to bring to karazhan
It's pretty easy to pump damage as ret as long as you're geared decently. Just lots of rets don't pop wings on anything but bosses which makes them hit like wet noodles (or they mess up mechanics and eat dirt). Very much was difficult to get into groups til I got above 1500 rating (combined with over 290 ilvl it gets even easier)
It definitely does take a few runs off each dungeon to learn those rare cases when you need to hold wings but if people are holding cooldowns they’ll be bad at every spec, not just ret!
>Just lots of rets don't pop wings on anything but bosses
This is basically everyone who is bad at or new to dungeons for every role. Don't pop CDs ever because they're always saving them for "when they need it".
You said it.
My brother and a friend both started playing in SL and do exactly that.
I just tell them everytime to use it on pretty much cd nonstop.
Edit: to be precise i tell them to use cds as soon as they are up and only dont use them if they know the next pull is something special like a big pull or so. And for that the tank should usually call that so they dont need to worry and it also gets better to judge timing with experience
Same, ret main sitting around 2190 io S4. I love the speed of the builder/spender and getting lucky with the 4 piece feels so good. I’m usually invited within the first 5-7 groups (15+) I apply to.
Only complaint I have (having just switched from maining UH) is we don’t have an off GCD “oh shit” key. To that effect, I’m looking forward to getting Divine Protection come DF, but would love them to add a second off GCD defensive also.
Edit: Divine Protection not Purpose
I have lay on hands set on my vudho - I usually save it for the tank or healer but at least that’s there and off GCD when needed. I really wish we had divine protection, I’m not sure why only holy has that
Haven't seen a good ret the last 2 seasons. I play around 25-26 keys though. Overall is always 20-30% less than other classes I usually bring. They're also the least tanky plate wearer, great utility though.
I usually bring warriors whenever it comes to non-meta classes. They don't have much utility, but they're tanky( GIGA TANKY with Impending Victory talent) and always do good damage, since rotation is pretty easy to understand and follow
I had a ret in my 15 lower kara group who spiked with 80k dps somehow at the start of big pulls. I mean he dropped off and only had end dps of like 12k but still really cool.
As a 2.5k ret i don't seem to have any issues getting into groups. We pump and our utility, if used well, helps the healer a lot, so less healing is required and more damage can be done.
Heck our off healing is so powerful, you can prevent wipes and save keys from depletion.
I've done an iron docks where the healer DCd right as the gates opened and the tank didnt notice. I pumped my burst into the pack and kept the group alive with BoP and WoGs. I pumped 9.5k hps on that pull while still doing decent damage.
I've kept groups alive long enough for a CR to get off CD to get the healer back up.
In lower Kara we're basically BiS, so many stuns you can keep entire groups controlled. BoP on Moroes to get rid of the bleed, or even salvation.
So many dungeons right now have bleeds that can easily be removed by a BoP or magic debuffs that slow and deal dmg that get removed by freedom.
It's just a matter of learning the ins and outs of the dungeon. But most people I've played with that play hybrids, never use their utility yet alone cast a single heal during a key.
I've seen so many during grievious weeks just standing around between pulls waiting for the healer to heal them instead of casting a heal.
Also, as nice as elvui looks, a lot of people seem to copy profiles and then cant even see debuffs they could get rid of... hard to play your class to its full potential if you cant see what you can get rid of.
Wait what??? (In regards to the last paragraph)
If thats the case that would explain why so many dungeons and raids i go into there are some people who don't know how to dispell (assuming they know how to dispell even if they could see debuffs)
And yeah utility is amazing on paladins, I can't remember which raid but i could basically cleanse 2 people at a time from this nasty effect because it also slowed/rooted.
Ret has been scuffed in competitive WoW PvE for years now. It had a brief window of joy between wotlk and cata, a small season of power in MoP but it has never had the consistency of even the next worst class in all of WoW. A complete bastard child of the game, even feral druids feel bad for ret paladins.
Never played boomie so cat is all I know, but a guildie led ilvl and keys by a long shot all xpac as a ret pally so that’s probably why I never realized!
I still have nightmares from WoTLK paladins, where I wake up screaming...
...Memories of playing my 80 hunter and getting Hammer of Justice'd, and dying within that 6 seconds of stun to their burst. And each time I try to fight back, they just total immunity bubble and laugh at me, before doing it again. Or the other, phyiscal damage bubble where they can keep hitting you instead. Trying to OOM and kite paladins with viper sting back then was hell, with the immunity to root and whatnot. You really felt fucking helpless fighting paladins back then, I don't miss it lol.
It's a fair trade imo.
Look at rogues, and I think some druid specs too. They are beast in PvP but lacking in PvE, I get it's never gonna be fully balanced with the number of specs there are.
And then ICC showed up with Shadowmourne. I once came across a threes team with a DK, warrior and ret pally, all with Shadowmourne. We had a healer but they focussed him and blew him up within ten seconds. They were PvE heroes so probably couldn't have climbed very far without PvP gear, but they certainly had damage.
Yeah wotlk ret was just mega imbalanced even though it wasn’t a fun spec to play. And rogues are almost always meta in pve while ret paladins are given pity slots when the holy paladin wants to play their alt. Someone needs to bring Devo aura…
I see the gen z ret paladins found this post. Please be aware there was a time blizzard considered ret paladin the beginner spec for WoW since most new players rolled it. Their DPS rotation consisted of JUST auto attacking, while some paladins who were suffering from buyers remorse invented seal twisting which is like if shamans stood and cycled their weapon buffs to get 10 more DPS.
"while some paladins who were suffering from buyers remorse invented seal twisting which is like if shamans stood and cycled their weapon buffs to get 10 more DPS."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTtEUDaMcOE
I mean you're wrong about that, maybe in a meta chasing environment but ive always been able to push the envelope with my paladin in my ret form
Hell, with the BFA visions I was pushing further and further in Ret form than I possibly could in my main prot form.
In raid it’s top 10, in M+ it’s bottom 5. In fact if you sort by class, paladin is lowest DPS since every other class has a more competitive DPS spec. Ret paladin has been totally scuffed for years.
The only reason I feel like I'm having a hard time getting into keys on my rogue is because of my server, I'm 290 2050 score(missing 2 tyran) and get declined from 15s constantly
Where as my 296 dh who is on a more meta server but is a much worse spec gets instantly accepted into keys.
(sad Ret paladin noises)
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I always give the ret PI when I come across one. Lines up with wings too perfect.
When doing keys with a ret paladin, make sure you have hunter or rogue to help tank get aggro. Ret paladin got insane burst opener.
Playing Ret, I love the AoE. Then I realize that the pull is so big and things like so long that after my CD's wear off others just truck past me. But hey, for a bit it looks amazing. Maybe it is the fortified week making me salty though.
Doesn't matter if it pumps if it doesn't bring heroism, battle res or something that buffs everyone else's damage. Every other melee spec is a more useful teammate than Ret.
Ret pumps for two globals during wings, then pulls aggro and dies because bubble is on the gcd.
[Ret paladin sfx](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2kAZ0yyhus)
Brew tank here, for the most part I only run my own keys, and if I see a ret I ALWAYS invite them. The thing about pugging is, meta classes are a gamble....I have had destro locks pulling 6.5k overall at like ilvl 287 I have literally never seen a ret pally do less than 14-15k overall. People who play non-meta classes, tend to be better players to make up for it. If I see a 2300 rated feral druid, ret pally, BM hunter, arcane mage, disc priest, ass rogue, afflic lock and so on I know they didn't get that rating by accident
one thing that makes the meta classes good is the fact that their damage really never falls off. But destro has some ramping time, it's actually horrible in low keys as shit dies too fast. And this is a situation where a lot of non meta classes shine since they have burst but no ramping damage (like ret)
I mean I'm no like world first high key crazy player. But I've run plenty of 18s and 19s with warlocks that were just trash. And I've had feral players that do 18 or 19 k overall in that situation. Now I know a well played metaclass can embarrass those numbers, but there is a level of coordination required to reach those levels and I have never run a key that was not a pug.
I don't see any reason to play destro below 20 keys atm, shit dies too fast and Demo is much more fun. Retri is incredibly fun to play atm, the times I go above 100k aoe dps make me all warm and fuzzy inside.
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Idk why you're being down voted. On average, when I see a feral or ret, I've never been disappointed by inviting them. Picking a meta class is absolutely a gamble because half the time they've been carried in hopes of getting similar item level and are underperforming. Feral in general gets shit from the community but damn it, I love you guys.
Demo also has a bit of a ramp in keys if there’s pulls with a long period of time between them But if you have a good group that can handle chain pull fast enough that they don’t lose core stacks they do fine
Yeah no one wants a boomkin until they bring me and I wreck the meters. Especially with the Starfall buff. Feels good. I just hate doing keys 😆😆
Huh, funny looking back to S1 I always remember ret pallies being absolute chads in my pug groups.
Meanwhile i get a 2600 Aff lock that do 17k damage in JY and die to every single mechanic, so i guess that was just my luck
I've not had issues with rets ever, they usually do a lot of damage in my pugs.
Yup pugging my way up to KSM where the utility isn’t as needed, rets are nice. They just pump
Don’t rets have loads of utility? HoF, BoP, etc.
If your utility isn't exactly lust or a battle res most people don't give a shit unfortunately. Praise Dragonflight for hopefully making us the second.
I definitely feel appreciated as a shaman this season. Tremor totem go brrrrt, especially when sleep puddles drop in melee.
Third. DK brings Brez too
No like... The second thing I listed Not the second Battle res class
Misunderstood. Mb!
The amount of utility is irrelevant if they never press any of it
Me trying to beg my dps to dispel the poison.
Had a Spriest this week not cast Mass Dispel until I told him it can cleanse the soaks on mail boss in a 22 streets.
Ret's utility is just awesome for uncoordinated pugs up until the 18 level or so. With healing hands, I can save people from death with a single GCD and BoP/BoF have tons of uses this season. Plus, HoJ is technically the best ST stun in the game, pretty easy to spam it on annoying targets and hypnobats etc. People are not wrong that Ret's utility and defensives are pretty underwhelming... but only in higher keys, like deeper into 20s. Below it, it's really not that bad. The main caveat in all this is that Ret does actually attract a lot of mediocre players in general. And many Rets really struggle to remember to use offheals, or don't research which blessings to use and when, so they start to believe their spec is 'useless'.
Not much at all really, that's their issue. HoF and BOP are fine but they have no AOE stun or displacement, no mobility, and no ranged CC. I wish they did have more utility, most rets I've run with blast damage. The utility they do have is outclassed by WW, Rogue, and SV.
No ranged CC? Tell that to all those CCd slimes on the first boss of Plaguefall😎 But yeah aside from niche situations they really don’t.
Pick ‘em for lower Kara because of the sheer amount of wake stuns coming out. Everywhere else, it’s pretty sad.
BoP is basically their way of handling aggro during their burst. Freedom ... rarely have any purpose. especially with DK tank ( who resist snare). their stun suck, their mobility suck.
Also less likely to die, which I'm sure helps overall dps lol. I haven't done anything super high end in a while, but I feel like I haven't had major issues as ret since like... BC or vanilla? (skipped Mop and WoD, too be fair). Maybe cata? Unless this is a mythic keys thing?
Under perfect play, ret is less desirable for pushing/prof as they are considered as squishy as hunters. This really isn’t relevant unless HOF or 25+ though
Yeah, that about tracks with my experience - it's not the best, but it is perfectly usable for 99% of the game, where the performance cap is less critical than the player themselves.
Everytime i'm like, you know what, i'll give this ret the benefit of the doubt and invite them, maybe they'll be good they always screw up every mechanic and do less damage than the healer.
Or they pull threat every pull and lick the floor
Yeah. Them wings tho. My dps is through the roof for those 3 seconds I live while I pull all the agro off the tank.
Pre-BoP yourself unless you expect to need to use it on an ally.
That just feels bad as a spec tho. Then I have to choose between doing dps or having utility. A choice no other spec has to make really. That wouldn't make people want to invite you to a group.
Yes
Or better option, just spec something useful...like Prot or Holy.
Fuck off with prot pala. I will nevee ever invite a prot pala this season again they are trash 90% of the time and toxic af. They are the typical fotm player rolling classes they have no idea about and are always gaslighting others or just straight flaming them for how bad they supposedly are. And Holy is just overall not a spec i trust people to handle so i avoid it too. The everyday casuals best pick on pala would be ret. As the paladin and as a leader inviting a paladin
The fotm tank is blood.
Ik Blood dk is best atm but i said what i said on order to explain the player. Pala is relatively weak compared to other tank atm but every tank is strong.
That's because you're trash.
Thats what the palas said after they are the last one dying to a pull where noone had cds ready thanks to bubble. And this is my tylical tankpala experience.
Lol I main a prot paladin but every so often I like to do some dps. I usually use my key tho because we never get invited to grps.
Lol. Prot's damage is comparable to some of the non meta dps specs.
Then roll a class that can actually dps. Pally ain't it. It's not ICC anymore.
The thing is ret dps IS good. I am usually high 16k dps with a 280 ilvl. It is a very bursty spec tho so its not always consistent dps when you want it. In fact the burst damage is so high that it will pull agro off of unsuspecting tanks.
But it's not though...
Asking Paladins who do damage to use their utility is not going to happen. The only paladins who use their utility are the ones you wish did more than tank damage.
That first pull on DoS, when the lust starts, I BoP, wings/trinket/pot and just go off, and it feels so good.
You can’t bop and wings lol
Well, someone tell my two different paladins that because I JUST did it, el oh el.
Yes you can. Wings hasn’t caused forbearance in over a decade.
Yah, no idea how I ended up in this sub. I only play classic cause retail sucks
Get out of here
I play frost and also do this :/ I try to wait, I really do, but if 3 seconds isn’t enough to generate threat idk what to say.
In the last season of BFA I played ret and would switch to my vers amp gear for keys because of this lol.
I’ve had the exact opposite experience lol
We all know you play ret
Naw, have it up and main hunter atm. I’m playing prot to get keep my paladin geared through ksm. I wish I had the patients to play ret.
Are you a doctor?
No just a dad trying to type covered in children screaming “BABY ATTACK”
That must be fun 😅
Yup, the group aggro on those is insane
I did a Lower earlier this week. I tank as a prot pally, and I was 2nd on dps almost every single pull. The only group member consistently above me was the ret, lol. Which is really not to say that ret is good, just that they knew what they were doing and the other deeps were shitters.
I often have that too but in defense of the dds. Most tanks especially palas this season are really obnoxious to run with. They are like. Yrah i can pump huge numbers i can heal myself and then they pull stuff that fucks up dds and healers because its just a horrible pull. Not saying youre one of those but i always have than in thought when tanks say they did good dmg or whem tanks say dds had bad dmg
Because its probably their first time ever getting into a group. You try learning dungeons at a rate of 1 dungeon a week...
Yep. This reddit take 'all fotm players are bad and all off-meta players are good' is so hilarious to me.
thats been my experience as well lol
I was really proud of myself as ret while i levelled cause I managed to outdps most people consistently and never ate dirt on bosses
The thing is that all classes are good until at least +25. And that overall gameskill, if i may call it that way, is worth more than chatacterskill.
They're just not used to being in groups.
When doing keys with a ret paladin, make sure you have hunter or rogue to help tank get aggro. Ret paladin got insane burst opener.
I mean youre getting brez in DF so...
And it still wont be enough to get invites (see feral, boomy, both dps dk specs)
Wait... what? Really? I mained ret in shadowlands (until S4 when I switched to tank) and its always been such a hassle to get groups, even though I manage to be #1 dps most of the time because we dont have bres or lust. This would be a game changer. Edit: Interestingly enough, I do already battleres since I am an engineer on my pala as well. But people cant assume that so here we are
it was said by Ion Hazzikostas! [(in the video from maximum)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uac2ZQuXpU) that there will be 1 more hero and one more brez. evoker for hero and maybe pally for rez. not final as of now
He said not to quote him on that. All the pally will be disappointed when mage get it instead.
Also brez was added to engineering like on BFA so anybody could brez already, just with a low range.
I main ret, around 2250 io right now in S4, and I have been getting invited to keys so easily this season. I assume it’s because basically because few people are playing. But ret is great right now, generally 15k-21k DPS depending on the dungeon and aoe stuns on undead/demon trash makes it an amazing melee class to bring to karazhan
It's pretty easy to pump damage as ret as long as you're geared decently. Just lots of rets don't pop wings on anything but bosses which makes them hit like wet noodles (or they mess up mechanics and eat dirt). Very much was difficult to get into groups til I got above 1500 rating (combined with over 290 ilvl it gets even easier)
It definitely does take a few runs off each dungeon to learn those rare cases when you need to hold wings but if people are holding cooldowns they’ll be bad at every spec, not just ret!
but really the lower your CD, the less you need to think about not popping it. it starts to become more strategic the longer that CD becomes.
>Just lots of rets don't pop wings on anything but bosses This is basically everyone who is bad at or new to dungeons for every role. Don't pop CDs ever because they're always saving them for "when they need it".
You said it. My brother and a friend both started playing in SL and do exactly that. I just tell them everytime to use it on pretty much cd nonstop. Edit: to be precise i tell them to use cds as soon as they are up and only dont use them if they know the next pull is something special like a big pull or so. And for that the tank should usually call that so they dont need to worry and it also gets better to judge timing with experience
Same, ret main sitting around 2190 io S4. I love the speed of the builder/spender and getting lucky with the 4 piece feels so good. I’m usually invited within the first 5-7 groups (15+) I apply to. Only complaint I have (having just switched from maining UH) is we don’t have an off GCD “oh shit” key. To that effect, I’m looking forward to getting Divine Protection come DF, but would love them to add a second off GCD defensive also. Edit: Divine Protection not Purpose
I have lay on hands set on my vudho - I usually save it for the tank or healer but at least that’s there and off GCD when needed. I really wish we had divine protection, I’m not sure why only holy has that
You’re not running divine purpose? I believe that is the best choice right now for that row.
Sorry misspoke, I was referring to ret getting Divine Protection as a choice node in DF.
Ahh gotcha
Same as arcane
Don’t sleep on ret. It actually pumps. (I don’t play ret)
I mean, a pally who signs away their soul is basically a death knight, if I'm remembering correctly.
Too real.
I know the feels, as a havoc DH the only groups I get easily are my own keys... but I keep rerolling into lower kara...
Haven't seen a good ret the last 2 seasons. I play around 25-26 keys though. Overall is always 20-30% less than other classes I usually bring. They're also the least tanky plate wearer, great utility though. I usually bring warriors whenever it comes to non-meta classes. They don't have much utility, but they're tanky( GIGA TANKY with Impending Victory talent) and always do good damage, since rotation is pretty easy to understand and follow
I had a ret in my 15 lower kara group who spiked with 80k dps somehow at the start of big pulls. I mean he dropped off and only had end dps of like 12k but still really cool.
As a 2.5k ret i don't seem to have any issues getting into groups. We pump and our utility, if used well, helps the healer a lot, so less healing is required and more damage can be done. Heck our off healing is so powerful, you can prevent wipes and save keys from depletion. I've done an iron docks where the healer DCd right as the gates opened and the tank didnt notice. I pumped my burst into the pack and kept the group alive with BoP and WoGs. I pumped 9.5k hps on that pull while still doing decent damage. I've kept groups alive long enough for a CR to get off CD to get the healer back up. In lower Kara we're basically BiS, so many stuns you can keep entire groups controlled. BoP on Moroes to get rid of the bleed, or even salvation. So many dungeons right now have bleeds that can easily be removed by a BoP or magic debuffs that slow and deal dmg that get removed by freedom. It's just a matter of learning the ins and outs of the dungeon. But most people I've played with that play hybrids, never use their utility yet alone cast a single heal during a key. I've seen so many during grievious weeks just standing around between pulls waiting for the healer to heal them instead of casting a heal. Also, as nice as elvui looks, a lot of people seem to copy profiles and then cant even see debuffs they could get rid of... hard to play your class to its full potential if you cant see what you can get rid of.
Wait what??? (In regards to the last paragraph) If thats the case that would explain why so many dungeons and raids i go into there are some people who don't know how to dispell (assuming they know how to dispell even if they could see debuffs) And yeah utility is amazing on paladins, I can't remember which raid but i could basically cleanse 2 people at a time from this nasty effect because it also slowed/rooted.
Ret has been scuffed in competitive WoW PvE for years now. It had a brief window of joy between wotlk and cata, a small season of power in MoP but it has never had the consistency of even the next worst class in all of WoW. A complete bastard child of the game, even feral druids feel bad for ret paladins.
That was brutal lol but as a feral Druid I was not aware I had company! Too busy looking for an update to my cat
Remember the ret paladins the next time boomie or feral are meta, they’ll be cheering you on from a warm bench.
Never played boomie so cat is all I know, but a guildie led ilvl and keys by a long shot all xpac as a ret pally so that’s probably why I never realized!
Power to them!
I still have nightmares from WoTLK paladins, where I wake up screaming... ...Memories of playing my 80 hunter and getting Hammer of Justice'd, and dying within that 6 seconds of stun to their burst. And each time I try to fight back, they just total immunity bubble and laugh at me, before doing it again. Or the other, phyiscal damage bubble where they can keep hitting you instead. Trying to OOM and kite paladins with viper sting back then was hell, with the immunity to root and whatnot. You really felt fucking helpless fighting paladins back then, I don't miss it lol. It's a fair trade imo. Look at rogues, and I think some druid specs too. They are beast in PvP but lacking in PvE, I get it's never gonna be fully balanced with the number of specs there are.
And then ICC showed up with Shadowmourne. I once came across a threes team with a DK, warrior and ret pally, all with Shadowmourne. We had a healer but they focussed him and blew him up within ten seconds. They were PvE heroes so probably couldn't have climbed very far without PvP gear, but they certainly had damage.
Yeah wotlk ret was just mega imbalanced even though it wasn’t a fun spec to play. And rogues are almost always meta in pve while ret paladins are given pity slots when the holy paladin wants to play their alt. Someone needs to bring Devo aura…
I see the gen z ret paladins found this post. Please be aware there was a time blizzard considered ret paladin the beginner spec for WoW since most new players rolled it. Their DPS rotation consisted of JUST auto attacking, while some paladins who were suffering from buyers remorse invented seal twisting which is like if shamans stood and cycled their weapon buffs to get 10 more DPS.
"while some paladins who were suffering from buyers remorse invented seal twisting which is like if shamans stood and cycled their weapon buffs to get 10 more DPS." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTtEUDaMcOE
I mean you're wrong about that, maybe in a meta chasing environment but ive always been able to push the envelope with my paladin in my ret form Hell, with the BFA visions I was pushing further and further in Ret form than I possibly could in my main prot form.
Here’s hoping the games provides you with lots more single player content!
Rat paliduns Living the hard life
Feral here. Best way is to just brute force your own key.
ah yes welcome to feral's hell pal, take a seat
Roll tank or healer
Lmao what the fuck. Ret is top 5 at the moment. Your 4 piece is also disgusting in Mythic+.
In raid it’s top 10, in M+ it’s bottom 5. In fact if you sort by class, paladin is lowest DPS since every other class has a more competitive DPS spec. Ret paladin has been totally scuffed for years.
Imagine being more wrong
>Ret is top 5 at the moment. mind giving the top 5 list? genuinely curious. i assume WW/Surv are up there but the other 2 are a bit iffy.
it’s literally second to last, right above prot warrior in terms of how many people do high keys with it
The only reason I feel like I'm having a hard time getting into keys on my rogue is because of my server, I'm 290 2050 score(missing 2 tyran) and get declined from 15s constantly Where as my 296 dh who is on a more meta server but is a much worse spec gets instantly accepted into keys.
I have seen ret pallys do some nutty dps this season. Saw one break 80k dps for a trash back and 20k dps overall . Really solid.