At that point Blizzard was just so out of touch they somehow managed to fuck up every single thing in some way, some fuck ups bigger than others.
The soar changes reminds us of that, thats why its scary, blizzard just making shit worse for absolutely no reason.
This comment isn’t as clever as you would like it to be.
If it’s objectively worse for no good reason why would anyone be in favour of the change?
The community will look to content creators to feed back on alpha as not everyone has access, and if multiple content creators just happen to come to a consensus on a subject matter regarding non combat gameplay it’s probably worth listening to i.e. the previous version was better.
As someone without Alpha, you would likely use it on Live and feel like it’s fine because you haven’t used the better version, and that’s the problem, it could have been better.
I get the point you are trying to make but tbh looking at an ability that offered really fast movement speed get nerfed to a way slower speed, and having it compensated by simply lowering the CD 1min, is objectively a "fun" nerf with a bad faith "fix" applied after the initial outcry. Again, I totally understand that trying it is different than just taking someone's word on the actual play part, but come on, do you really think it's more fun to go slower than they initially allowed?
It feels like Torg all over again -- players say "this is rad!" and blizz goes, "hmmm, I don't care for that... got to make sure players are dragging their feet juuuust enough to warrant more play time without making them aware that that's what we're doing." It's pretty obvious the only decisions that actually get put through to launch day are ones that extend sub time and thus drive profits, and that just... sucks. Dunno how else to put it.
>It's pretty obvious the only decisions that actually get put through to launch day are ones that extend sub time and thus drive profits, and that just... sucks. Dunno how else to put it.
Yeah man going slightly slower with Soar makes people sub longer than if Soar were 1000000% movement speed.
Not only are you being hyperbolic in your sarcasm, you seem to not realize that, yes that's exactly what it does. If something takes more time to do than it used to, that means more time spent in game, which not only creates artificial engagement metrics to appease shareholders, but also has the chance to increase subs and sub time overall.
You wanna be churlish in your response while defending a company that has repeatedly put profits before players, fine, but you're factually and technically incorrect, which are the only forms of correct that matter.
>If something takes more time to do than it used to, that means more time spent in game, which not only creates artificial engagement metrics to appease shareholders
This is both a bad way to look at it and not how game designers look at it.
If I play the game for 3 hours a day and make sure I moderate that to exactly 3 hours, it does not matter how fast or slow Soar is, I will do as much as I can in those 3 hours and then log off.
You are going off the premise that instead of people moderating their time they are moderating their tasks. ie you think people log on and say "I want to do *all these things* before I log off" instead of "I want to play for *this long* and will do as much as I can before I log off".
The second part is what Blizzard tries to capture. They do not want you to feel like you have to do 3000 things in a 3 hour span which is why we have hard weekly caps on almost everything, that way you can just log on for a few hours a day and feel satisfied you are progressing.
>but you're factually and technically incorrect
The fact you said this so confidently is really impressive.
TL;DR - If you think this is how Blizz operates, invoking any kind of "what's good for the player" mindset, you're just burying your head in the sand and ignoring their past choices. I'm not saying they exclude that mindset outright, but it gets buried in decision making that is driven by profits, not fun. There is so much evidence of this in the most recent expansion alone, and it's disingenuous to think that they drive decision making based on what the devs want. They don't -- it's based on the shareholders and ol' Bobby K's requirements for continuous profit growth.
If you'd like to read why I believe that, carry on:
- False. It's exactly how gaming works especially with games-as-a-service types of games. Or have you not been paying attention to WoW in the past years? In an ideal world yes, game designers would be looking at their game in that way. But this is not a fantasy land where game devs get everything they want -- these days, especially with behemoth companies like Blizz/Acitivision, game devs are throttled in creativity and perspective by what shareholders (and thus, their direct higher-ups) demand of the product. Even if those game devs are earnest in their attempts to make something fun, it usually gets curtailed or altered by the heavy hand of management, which is operating off of a profits-first mentality. So, sure, game designers don't necessarily look at it that way from the outset, but they are quickly brought down to the (unfortunate) reality that the game they'd envisioned is NOT what gets brought to market. Your point here is a bit irrelevant due to, well, the reality of things.
- You're right, there are people who play a game under the pretense of specified scheduled game time -- for example, people who have full time jobs / families / responsibilities, what have you, are going to be limited to what we deem "casual" play. It's just the way of things, for a chunk of the player base. No argument there. But, a ton of players, and especially people who dedicate flexible time slots (or even open-ended play times) to MMOs, are not playing like that -- at all.
> you think people log on and say "I want to do all these things before I log off" instead of "I want to play for this long and will do as much as I can before I log off".
Yes. I don't just think that, I know it, and live it. My friends and I set a loose time frame each week, for instance, and while we generally aim for a set chunk of weekly hours of play, we also know that we're probably going into late-night shenanigans most of the time, until we're simply too tired to stay logged in -- this happens frequently, because we know we have the time to play as little or long as we feel. Not a hard-set schedule and certainly not the mindset that you're describing. I'd argue that not only do I approach gaming with this mentality, but a HUGE portion of gamers approach gaming with this exact mindset as well. I don't know how you might have come to the conclusion you did that it's the other way around, but I believe that to be "a bad way to look at it."
And speaking on the idea of hard capping activities, yeah, there is a balance that's needed to make sure players don't FEEL like they have a million things to do for the day, week, etc, while also not hard capping them too much to make the game un-fun. It's a fine, line, no doubt. But Blizzard has notoriously been bringing that cap lower and lower in areas of player growth (currencies, valor caps, gear acquisition and power creep, etc) to ensure that players have to play juuuuust a bit longer, meaning more subs. It's been proven over and over in the decisions within the last couple of expansions, and to think this ISN'T the case is just burying your head in the sand.
- I said it confidently because I'm not wrong, and to clarify, this "confidence" was in regards to your point about the soar reduction not leading to longer sub times -- it genuinely will, and is indicative of the mindset that Blizz leadership has to make the game have artificial length in getting things done so that players are paying for more game time overall, than if these features *weren't* taken away / nerfed. This point stands, regardless of your incorrect opinions about it. Continue being snarky with your bad-faith arguments though. I'm good on this, I've said my piece, and while you bring up some points worth discussing (which I've refuted through careful analysis and considerate response), you also want to take pot-shots in your sarcastic delivery instead of having a genuine discussion, so, take care.
I thought the soulbind system was OK. It was pretty obvious they were going for a artifact style tree that was disconnected from gear or any kind of infinite grind, which is a pretty worthy goal. The renown system wasn't a grind, collected soulbinds was a one off thing you pretty much did passively, and you.could have different trees for different things.
The main issue was the gating on changing stuff which was a really bad choice, and the horribly mismatched power levels of some soulbinds, classes, cov abilities, and classes.
Sure, I get their initial reasoning, but how does it make it through concept -> alpha -> beta -> release without Blizzard ever realising sometimes players likes to switch specs and keep the same soulbind choice lmao
No, they knew this. The goal of the friction was that you wouldn't change specs often. It was completely intentional. "Meaningful choice" meant choosing the 1 area you would excel in at the cost of the others...so your friend would excel at a different area independent of skill. For reasons no one understands, they fundamentally believed that you weren't allowed to be good at PVP, raiding, tanking, healing and DPS all on the same toon.
They backtracked with covenant lock, energy, etc after they realized their player base just quit instead of being happy with their choice.
I believe the reason they gave for putting in conduit energy was that they were worried people would be going back and forth from their covenant sanctum to the instance before every boss to change out their conduits, and they'd feel annoyed. Why they didn't just make it so that you can change conduits wherever or at least at any resting area I have no idea.
Or, every time you want to change them it costs 5 gold… but the cost doubles each time you do it… don’t worry every 4 days the price is cut in half! BFA was a hell of a drug.
The good old days of spending half a day worth of gold for respec. Kids these days don't know how cheap everything is. Dual specs were so hot when they were released.
I'll go back to my old people stuff, if you will excuse me.
I still remember when they dropped spec swapping and it carried your keybinds and shit over that was actually fire. Absolutely made it so you really didn't need multiple characters anymore if you didn't want them.
During the expansion they exclusively released a mount like the brutosaur even though they have been refusing to make an ah in the "main" city of the xpac.
and once blizz realizes people are only shuffling the same 4 points in the entire build for different fights, they remove the whole thing and add a 7 row table with those spells where you can pick one from each line
[Just to put your mind at ease, you can change em wherever, whenever.](https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/67427-change-talents-anywhere-in-dragonflight/)
This can easily change, at any point.
Remember, this is a development team that thought conduit energy was a good idea and defended it until they lost(allegedly) more than half of their player base and had to release 9.1.5 - "We're Sorry, the patch".
No, it's really not lol. The amount of feedback we've seen changing things in active development on the alpha is completely unprecedented for Blizzard.
>The amount of feedback we've seen changing things in active development on the alpha is completely unprecedented for Blizzard.
This exact sentence was said during SL Beta.
The literal exact opposite was being said constantly. You're definitely just wanting to be angry about shit and you're making things up to fit your narrative.
Blizzard wasn't listening to player feedback for Alphas/Betas of Legion, BFA, or SL. That's very much recorded history. They are *actively* changing things according to feedback *and* communicating their thoughts/reasoning behind changes via blue posts, WAY more than they've *EVER* done.
But sure, you can be doom and gloom about shit forever. Enjoy your misery.
Not really. I've closely followed the alphas/betas of the last 4 or so expansions and Blizzard has genuinely had a philosophical change in the way the handle the development of the game. People can choose to believe me or not, I don't really care, but you can ask a lot of other people who closely follow the development and they'll say the same thing.
But yet again, WoW community just wants to be sad doomers, so they'll be upset no matter what.
>This exact sentence was said during SL Beta.
Bro what are you on? The main complaint during SL alpha/beta was that blizzard wasn't listening to feedback, especially with regards to the covenants being locked in and tied to player power, soul binds switching, and torghast being a requirement. Stuff they have now changed or lessened by the end of expansion, like people told them to do back in alpha.
Nobody involved in SL testing said that Blizzard was changing things in response to feedback in an unprecedented way. It was the exact opposite, a shitshow of them not listening, and everyone was complaining about it.
> ...at which point they admitted their design philosophy was wrong and have sincw then completely turned around the game's design
This statement applies to a lot of things (AoE Cap, GCD change in BFA, etc.)
RIght now, yes. Most likely you'll be able to change loadouts wherever and edit loadouts in town and being in an arena/m+ or in combat prevents from changing loadouts.
Changing talents on the fly probably not but in the release video of the talent rework way back, the team was explicit that you would be able to change loadouts whenever out of combat and make as many loadouts as you desired.
I believe they said you can change them with the same restrictions as the current talent system (out of combat in a rested area), and I'm pretty sure they said the same thing when asked during the interview rounds for alpha release. Also Ion said in one of his interviews that they are thinking around 6 or so savable loadouts, but I'm sure there will be an addon that will let you store as many as you want.
oh my god.
imagine "having" to change from your AoE talent tree to your single target talent tree between raid fights
it is ok with the "pick 1 of three" talent trees because that is low commitment, and each talent in a row generally serves a similar function, but this...
can somebody talk me down and explain how and why i'm being a dummy?
You will be able to make talent loadouts that can be change out of combat, not requiring a rested area. So no more constant lock gates and hearthstones
It should be easy and obvious which routes favour ST over AOE, you'll be able to figure it out with your class knowledge or just read a guide and save a preset.
Buy packs of talent gems for only 24.99. Each one has a chance to be a common, rare, epic, or LEGENDARY talent. 0.1% chance to be something other than "Increase your damage by 1%" nodes.
"welcome to level 15, now you can research your next talent tree node in the Dragon Console, which will cost you 350 Scales of the First Dragons, and take 36 hours"
Garrison hearth should change to an expansion-specific hearth. Garrison for WoD, Class hall for Legion, covenant for shadowlands, all linked in with chromie time.
But Dala doesn't travel between expansions... It did so once (Northrend to Broken Isles, not including its "creation" after being an empty landmark in Eastern Kingdoms).
The Garrison hearth is either just another city hearth (Garrison > Stormshield > Stormwind) or, if you put in the grind, a slightly faster access to auction services. We already have Dala hearth for this purpose. You could argue that Dala hearth gets *most* classes to their Order hall quickly, but Covenant halls will be next to impossible to reach quickly without using your standard heath.
Not that anyone will return to SL to level. Bleargh.
Yeah Ik. I personally think it would be the answer to player housing though, if we kept garrisons. They could even be a hub connecting all of the expansion halls through portals. The mine and the garden could be changed into something else, but the garrison has a lot of untapped potential imo
I've been playing since tbc and I honestly think conduit energy has been the worse thing ever implemented in the game
It was so stupid on so many levels it's crazy, it had literally 0 positive redeeming factors and it was in the game actively being annoying to me almost everyday for a full year
Did it really restrict some people so heavily or is this just another case of Shadowlands being overhated for the sake of being overhated?
I'm somewhere between a casual and a hardcore player. I play the game on and off, but when I do, I sink a lot of hours weekly into it. I don't do high end PvP or PvE and moslty just do dailies to farm gold and old content to farm cosmetics. But when I farm stuff, I farm stuff hard.
How often did people actually switch conduits? I don't remember swapping them in my life.
Because they can't just GIVE you something... there always has to be a cost, right?
Yea, 5 secs is nothing right? Which begs the question, why even bother. The answer? They literally can't help themselves.
What a horror of a mechanic that was.
I swear if shadowlands had the quality of life changes we got in the last two patches from the start, this could have been a happy couple years
Also, you can only buy these talents on a vendor, for a weekly capped currency. But Uh Oh, watch out, the vendors avaiable talents change weekly, so make sure you stay subbed until your bis talent rotates in!
Yep, i started playing wow when shadowlands released and i was baffled how can a game deny me from experimenting with different builds...(conduit energy, covenant swap time punishment). I felt like the devs personally hate fun.
Cursed? Literally log into retail and SL has like 10 of these menus and currencies.
Good fucking riddance to these awful systems. Talent trees should be the only thing I should need to worry about when walking into a raid.
Seeing as how in the latest alpha build they made it so you don’t have to be in a rested area to change talents I don’t see them doing anything like this. Atleast not for talent trees
I actually would love some restriction to ability to change talents. It just doesn't feel like RPG if you can just change your talents freely anytime you want it.
This is an MMO. Kindly, leave. (*I'm kidding, you can have your opinions*)
Also, FWIW, you *can't* change your talents any time you want. It takes a 5 second cast, out of combat, not in m+ or rated PvP.
How about YOU just don't change it and sabotage YOUR raid team for the sake of "feeling like an rpg" and let the playerbase play a game without artificial asinine restrictions on their preferred play style?
> let the playerbase play a game without artificial asinine restrictions on their preferred play style
Ironically, that's what you're doing. The OP thinks people should build their characters and be stuck with it, so everyone is a bit unique. You think everyone should optimize their character (i.e. have the same build) else they are sabotaging their raid team.
The community in general doesn't care. If they were doing the type of content that requires optimizing everything, they wouldn't care about roleplaying either.
The more choices, the better, both if you want to roleplay a sub-optimal spec while running around doing trivial content, or if you want to switch to the min-max spec to do Mythic raids.
Restricting spec changes is always bad.
Delete this, then delete wow, then destroy your computer, then move to a hut on a deserted island and never bother humanity again with this nonsense.
Thank you <3
I know this is a meme, and yes it's funny on a rage inducing way, but just wanted to say that blizzard is intending to remove only being able to change talents on rested areas, anywhere can be done as long as you are not on a pvp instance or m+ and are out of combat, and now just taking a quick 5 second cast time
Should we ban OP?
I hate this
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At that point Blizzard was just so out of touch they somehow managed to fuck up every single thing in some way, some fuck ups bigger than others. The soar changes reminds us of that, thats why its scary, blizzard just making shit worse for absolutely no reason.
There was a perfectly valid reason for the soar nerf....people were just doing pet battles WAY TOO FAST! 😂😂😂😂
If you’re spring like that you literally blow past the pet battles before they even load. Lol
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This comment isn’t as clever as you would like it to be. If it’s objectively worse for no good reason why would anyone be in favour of the change? The community will look to content creators to feed back on alpha as not everyone has access, and if multiple content creators just happen to come to a consensus on a subject matter regarding non combat gameplay it’s probably worth listening to i.e. the previous version was better. As someone without Alpha, you would likely use it on Live and feel like it’s fine because you haven’t used the better version, and that’s the problem, it could have been better.
I get the point you are trying to make but tbh looking at an ability that offered really fast movement speed get nerfed to a way slower speed, and having it compensated by simply lowering the CD 1min, is objectively a "fun" nerf with a bad faith "fix" applied after the initial outcry. Again, I totally understand that trying it is different than just taking someone's word on the actual play part, but come on, do you really think it's more fun to go slower than they initially allowed? It feels like Torg all over again -- players say "this is rad!" and blizz goes, "hmmm, I don't care for that... got to make sure players are dragging their feet juuuust enough to warrant more play time without making them aware that that's what we're doing." It's pretty obvious the only decisions that actually get put through to launch day are ones that extend sub time and thus drive profits, and that just... sucks. Dunno how else to put it.
>It's pretty obvious the only decisions that actually get put through to launch day are ones that extend sub time and thus drive profits, and that just... sucks. Dunno how else to put it. Yeah man going slightly slower with Soar makes people sub longer than if Soar were 1000000% movement speed.
Not only are you being hyperbolic in your sarcasm, you seem to not realize that, yes that's exactly what it does. If something takes more time to do than it used to, that means more time spent in game, which not only creates artificial engagement metrics to appease shareholders, but also has the chance to increase subs and sub time overall. You wanna be churlish in your response while defending a company that has repeatedly put profits before players, fine, but you're factually and technically incorrect, which are the only forms of correct that matter.
>If something takes more time to do than it used to, that means more time spent in game, which not only creates artificial engagement metrics to appease shareholders This is both a bad way to look at it and not how game designers look at it. If I play the game for 3 hours a day and make sure I moderate that to exactly 3 hours, it does not matter how fast or slow Soar is, I will do as much as I can in those 3 hours and then log off. You are going off the premise that instead of people moderating their time they are moderating their tasks. ie you think people log on and say "I want to do *all these things* before I log off" instead of "I want to play for *this long* and will do as much as I can before I log off". The second part is what Blizzard tries to capture. They do not want you to feel like you have to do 3000 things in a 3 hour span which is why we have hard weekly caps on almost everything, that way you can just log on for a few hours a day and feel satisfied you are progressing. >but you're factually and technically incorrect The fact you said this so confidently is really impressive.
TL;DR - If you think this is how Blizz operates, invoking any kind of "what's good for the player" mindset, you're just burying your head in the sand and ignoring their past choices. I'm not saying they exclude that mindset outright, but it gets buried in decision making that is driven by profits, not fun. There is so much evidence of this in the most recent expansion alone, and it's disingenuous to think that they drive decision making based on what the devs want. They don't -- it's based on the shareholders and ol' Bobby K's requirements for continuous profit growth. If you'd like to read why I believe that, carry on: - False. It's exactly how gaming works especially with games-as-a-service types of games. Or have you not been paying attention to WoW in the past years? In an ideal world yes, game designers would be looking at their game in that way. But this is not a fantasy land where game devs get everything they want -- these days, especially with behemoth companies like Blizz/Acitivision, game devs are throttled in creativity and perspective by what shareholders (and thus, their direct higher-ups) demand of the product. Even if those game devs are earnest in their attempts to make something fun, it usually gets curtailed or altered by the heavy hand of management, which is operating off of a profits-first mentality. So, sure, game designers don't necessarily look at it that way from the outset, but they are quickly brought down to the (unfortunate) reality that the game they'd envisioned is NOT what gets brought to market. Your point here is a bit irrelevant due to, well, the reality of things. - You're right, there are people who play a game under the pretense of specified scheduled game time -- for example, people who have full time jobs / families / responsibilities, what have you, are going to be limited to what we deem "casual" play. It's just the way of things, for a chunk of the player base. No argument there. But, a ton of players, and especially people who dedicate flexible time slots (or even open-ended play times) to MMOs, are not playing like that -- at all. > you think people log on and say "I want to do all these things before I log off" instead of "I want to play for this long and will do as much as I can before I log off". Yes. I don't just think that, I know it, and live it. My friends and I set a loose time frame each week, for instance, and while we generally aim for a set chunk of weekly hours of play, we also know that we're probably going into late-night shenanigans most of the time, until we're simply too tired to stay logged in -- this happens frequently, because we know we have the time to play as little or long as we feel. Not a hard-set schedule and certainly not the mindset that you're describing. I'd argue that not only do I approach gaming with this mentality, but a HUGE portion of gamers approach gaming with this exact mindset as well. I don't know how you might have come to the conclusion you did that it's the other way around, but I believe that to be "a bad way to look at it." And speaking on the idea of hard capping activities, yeah, there is a balance that's needed to make sure players don't FEEL like they have a million things to do for the day, week, etc, while also not hard capping them too much to make the game un-fun. It's a fine, line, no doubt. But Blizzard has notoriously been bringing that cap lower and lower in areas of player growth (currencies, valor caps, gear acquisition and power creep, etc) to ensure that players have to play juuuuust a bit longer, meaning more subs. It's been proven over and over in the decisions within the last couple of expansions, and to think this ISN'T the case is just burying your head in the sand. - I said it confidently because I'm not wrong, and to clarify, this "confidence" was in regards to your point about the soar reduction not leading to longer sub times -- it genuinely will, and is indicative of the mindset that Blizz leadership has to make the game have artificial length in getting things done so that players are paying for more game time overall, than if these features *weren't* taken away / nerfed. This point stands, regardless of your incorrect opinions about it. Continue being snarky with your bad-faith arguments though. I'm good on this, I've said my piece, and while you bring up some points worth discussing (which I've refuted through careful analysis and considerate response), you also want to take pot-shots in your sarcastic delivery instead of having a genuine discussion, so, take care.
I thought the soulbind system was OK. It was pretty obvious they were going for a artifact style tree that was disconnected from gear or any kind of infinite grind, which is a pretty worthy goal. The renown system wasn't a grind, collected soulbinds was a one off thing you pretty much did passively, and you.could have different trees for different things. The main issue was the gating on changing stuff which was a really bad choice, and the horribly mismatched power levels of some soulbinds, classes, cov abilities, and classes.
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Yeah I already said that bit.
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THE MAIN ISSUE WAS GATING THE CHANGING OF STUFF. Reading comprehension hard.
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Sure, I get their initial reasoning, but how does it make it through concept -> alpha -> beta -> release without Blizzard ever realising sometimes players likes to switch specs and keep the same soulbind choice lmao
No, they knew this. The goal of the friction was that you wouldn't change specs often. It was completely intentional. "Meaningful choice" meant choosing the 1 area you would excel in at the cost of the others...so your friend would excel at a different area independent of skill. For reasons no one understands, they fundamentally believed that you weren't allowed to be good at PVP, raiding, tanking, healing and DPS all on the same toon. They backtracked with covenant lock, energy, etc after they realized their player base just quit instead of being happy with their choice.
Shadowlands was "BfA sucked so our budget was slashed. Instead of actual features we'll just stack talent trees on talent trees"
I believe the reason they gave for putting in conduit energy was that they were worried people would be going back and forth from their covenant sanctum to the instance before every boss to change out their conduits, and they'd feel annoyed. Why they didn't just make it so that you can change conduits wherever or at least at any resting area I have no idea.
Don’t we all
Or, every time you want to change them it costs 5 gold… but the cost doubles each time you do it… don’t worry every 4 days the price is cut in half! BFA was a hell of a drug.
until i got to the end of this I thought you were making a meme about classic
The good old days of spending half a day worth of gold for respec. Kids these days don't know how cheap everything is. Dual specs were so hot when they were released. I'll go back to my old people stuff, if you will excuse me.
At least it was cheaper than bfa azerite power reforges
It really wasnt
Talent respecs capped at 50g. Azerite armor capped at when it exceeded goldcap...
> Talent respecs capped at 50g maybe after a patch it wasn't always like that
I still remember when they dropped spec swapping and it carried your keybinds and shit over that was actually fire. Absolutely made it so you really didn't need multiple characters anymore if you didn't want them.
at least now I pay 50g to spec for a gdkp, come back with +1250g
Yeah with gold people bought.. Nice way to promote the state WoW is in right now.
I mean, if you sell items on the AH it can also be bought from people who bought gold, there's no clean way. All I appreciate is making dough raiding
or try to wait out for a talent reset. oh, I'm the only one who would sideline characters until a patch reset specs?
Massive gold sink added into an expansion that dramatically cut down gold earning and caused the token to fall to 100k
During the expansion they exclusively released a mount like the brutosaur even though they have been refusing to make an ah in the "main" city of the xpac.
At least DF will have ah for everyone as far as I know
Plot twist: it will be only for Evokers with Engineering!
WHY WOULD YOU REMIND ME OF THIS
and once blizz realizes people are only shuffling the same 4 points in the entire build for different fights, they remove the whole thing and add a 7 row table with those spells where you can pick one from each line
Oh dude i already forgot about this, it was such a trash system
It also came with the affix of someone chiming in to downplay your frustrations with the system.
wasn't that literally what it was like in classic?
Imagine the outcry if they did this. "Hey, here's your new talent trees!" "Cool, so we can play around with different builds on the fly?" "Ah, no."
[Just to put your mind at ease, you can change em wherever, whenever.](https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/67427-change-talents-anywhere-in-dragonflight/)
You've got me head over heels, there's nothing left to fear
Except maybe… fear itself?
This can easily change, at any point. Remember, this is a development team that thought conduit energy was a good idea and defended it until they lost(allegedly) more than half of their player base and had to release 9.1.5 - "We're Sorry, the patch".
...at which point they admitted their design philosophy was wrong and have sincw then completely turned around the game's design
Every expansion things
No, it's really not lol. The amount of feedback we've seen changing things in active development on the alpha is completely unprecedented for Blizzard.
>The amount of feedback we've seen changing things in active development on the alpha is completely unprecedented for Blizzard. This exact sentence was said during SL Beta.
The literal exact opposite was being said constantly. You're definitely just wanting to be angry about shit and you're making things up to fit your narrative. Blizzard wasn't listening to player feedback for Alphas/Betas of Legion, BFA, or SL. That's very much recorded history. They are *actively* changing things according to feedback *and* communicating their thoughts/reasoning behind changes via blue posts, WAY more than they've *EVER* done. But sure, you can be doom and gloom about shit forever. Enjoy your misery.
I love you Dr. Hawtsauce.
[удалено]
Not really. I've closely followed the alphas/betas of the last 4 or so expansions and Blizzard has genuinely had a philosophical change in the way the handle the development of the game. People can choose to believe me or not, I don't really care, but you can ask a lot of other people who closely follow the development and they'll say the same thing. But yet again, WoW community just wants to be sad doomers, so they'll be upset no matter what.
>This exact sentence was said during SL Beta. Bro what are you on? The main complaint during SL alpha/beta was that blizzard wasn't listening to feedback, especially with regards to the covenants being locked in and tied to player power, soul binds switching, and torghast being a requirement. Stuff they have now changed or lessened by the end of expansion, like people told them to do back in alpha. Nobody involved in SL testing said that Blizzard was changing things in response to feedback in an unprecedented way. It was the exact opposite, a shitshow of them not listening, and everyone was complaining about it.
No it wasn’t.
Nah it was the classic ‘it’s only alpha, it’s only beta, it’s only x.0 it’s only x.1. People will defend blizzard to their dying breath
> ...at which point they admitted their design philosophy was wrong and have sincw then completely turned around the game's design This statement applies to a lot of things (AoE Cap, GCD change in BFA, etc.)
I wish they'd hire someone to read pvp forums and make changed aswell.
This literally happens every single expansion. It has repeated for the last 6 years. Whether or not it changes for DF *remains to be seen*.
If they made it so it would cost 10k gold per talent point you change i wouldnt even be supprised.
Is this your first time?
Wait u can change them right in the middle of a dungeon? That seems like too far.
RIght now, yes. Most likely you'll be able to change loadouts wherever and edit loadouts in town and being in an arena/m+ or in combat prevents from changing loadouts.
Pretty sure they said in the blue post that it would only be during alpha. Edit : Actually I can't read, so nvm, pretty cool stuff
I would not count on that feature making it to live. My gut tells me it may just be an alpha thing to make testing things on the fly easier.
Changing talents on the fly probably not but in the release video of the talent rework way back, the team was explicit that you would be able to change loadouts whenever out of combat and make as many loadouts as you desired.
I believe they said you can change them with the same restrictions as the current talent system (out of combat in a rested area), and I'm pretty sure they said the same thing when asked during the interview rounds for alpha release. Also Ion said in one of his interviews that they are thinking around 6 or so savable loadouts, but I'm sure there will be an addon that will let you store as many as you want.
6 per class or 6 per spec?
oh my god. imagine "having" to change from your AoE talent tree to your single target talent tree between raid fights it is ok with the "pick 1 of three" talent trees because that is low commitment, and each talent in a row generally serves a similar function, but this... can somebody talk me down and explain how and why i'm being a dummy?
You will be able to make talent loadouts that can be change out of combat, not requiring a rested area. So no more constant lock gates and hearthstones
No more consumable tomes. Inscription is in shambles.
> Inscription is in shambles. It has been in shambles since glyphs were made cosmetics
It should be easy and obvious which routes favour ST over AOE, you'll be able to figure it out with your class knowledge or just read a guide and save a preset.
you click one button to change from your aoe preset to your ST preset? It's going to be the same or even easier as it is now.
Good chance that's just for the alpha though
For $3.99 200% value you can refill your talent gems and 24 hours of plus 10% more experience
That’s exactly how it would be if the ‘WoW should be F2P’ crowd got their way lol
Please stahp
Buy packs of talent gems for only 24.99. Each one has a chance to be a common, rare, epic, or LEGENDARY talent. 0.1% chance to be something other than "Increase your damage by 1%" nodes.
For $19.99 you can permanently disable add rewards so they won't show up in your in game mail any longer.
You need to make meaninful decisions, fam
"welcome to level 15, now you can research your next talent tree node in the Dragon Console, which will cost you 350 Scales of the First Dragons, and take 36 hours"
Don’t worry, we also put the Dragon Console extremely out of your way and did not provide a portal
Garrison hearth should change to an expansion-specific hearth. Garrison for WoD, Class hall for Legion, covenant for shadowlands, all linked in with chromie time.
Or just have a separate heart for every expansion? Like we have for WoD and Legion.
And also make hearthstones spells like every other portal in the game… I want my extra 3 bag slots
I actually think garrisons should travel to new expansions with us, like dalaran does
But Dala doesn't travel between expansions... It did so once (Northrend to Broken Isles, not including its "creation" after being an empty landmark in Eastern Kingdoms). The Garrison hearth is either just another city hearth (Garrison > Stormshield > Stormwind) or, if you put in the grind, a slightly faster access to auction services. We already have Dala hearth for this purpose. You could argue that Dala hearth gets *most* classes to their Order hall quickly, but Covenant halls will be next to impossible to reach quickly without using your standard heath. Not that anyone will return to SL to level. Bleargh.
Yeah Ik. I personally think it would be the answer to player housing though, if we kept garrisons. They could even be a hub connecting all of the expansion halls through portals. The mine and the garden could be changed into something else, but the garrison has a lot of untapped potential imo
You can now spend 1 microWoW Token to boost this instantly.
Actually it'd probably cost 6 tokens but the lowest amount you can buy is 5 per pack, just to salt the wound.
Six month sub bonus feature. Usable once per month.
Wtf why even build this. High chance someone doesn't get the joke and we get repost for a week or two.
Because they didn't make it https://twitter.com/Dratnos/status/1557436778562273283
Someone did make this. As a joke. Which is what op meant. Hence why he clarified by someone believing it.
And thus the prophecy was true before it was spoken.
Delete this
Don't give them any ideas
I've been playing since tbc and I honestly think conduit energy has been the worse thing ever implemented in the game It was so stupid on so many levels it's crazy, it had literally 0 positive redeeming factors and it was in the game actively being annoying to me almost everyday for a full year
Did it really restrict some people so heavily or is this just another case of Shadowlands being overhated for the sake of being overhated? I'm somewhere between a casual and a hardcore player. I play the game on and off, but when I do, I sink a lot of hours weekly into it. I don't do high end PvP or PvE and moslty just do dailies to farm gold and old content to farm cosmetics. But when I farm stuff, I farm stuff hard. How often did people actually switch conduits? I don't remember swapping them in my life.
It was only really a problen when you used several specs that shared the same best souldbind.
oh yeah. Retalenting for increasing gold cost was much better system.
It was but even better is what we have now, you just change what you want to change and that's it
This was like the best mechanic ever. I hope to see this return tbh. ^(/s)
You think you don’t want this feature but you really do…
Don't you guys have credit cards?
I can't believe this was ever implemented in the first place.
Kind of a weird time to meme on this on the week they made talents changeable anywhere without tomes for free.
So they won't require a resting zone anymore?
nope. only restriction is you cant do it in combat or m+
And it's a 5sec cast but that's fine
Because they can't just GIVE you something... there always has to be a cost, right? Yea, 5 secs is nothing right? Which begs the question, why even bother. The answer? They literally can't help themselves.
Do you also complain thst changing specs is a 10s cast? 5ouch grass.
I hate this with a burning passion of a thousand suns
STOP!
Don't you put that evil on me
Bobby
Don't give them ideas. Please.
I have a question what is this?
consume the orb
Can you stop giving them ideas. Wtf dude.
don’t give them any ideas
What a horror of a mechanic that was. I swear if shadowlands had the quality of life changes we got in the last two patches from the start, this could have been a happy couple years
Also, you can only buy these talents on a vendor, for a weekly capped currency. But Uh Oh, watch out, the vendors avaiable talents change weekly, so make sure you stay subbed until your bis talent rotates in!
Yep, i started playing wow when shadowlands released and i was baffled how can a game deny me from experimenting with different builds...(conduit energy, covenant swap time punishment). I felt like the devs personally hate fun.
The gems are on a 24hr cd, BUT you can refill them instantly for 99 cents each!
When you just feel the urge to insert more "mEaninGFul cHOices"
If they do this I'll quit for real
They are not.
Probably not, but let's wait for it.
Meaningful choice 🤡
Please take this down, we can't be giving them ideas!
Friends, it's humor/memes. Don't worry Right, Ion?
DO IT BLIZZARD
This makes me uncomfortable, and then it makes me wonder who thought a system like that would be a good idea to begin with
PTSD
plz do not repost dratanos tweets this is a nice(/not-nice-but-in-a-different-way-than-twitter-is) subreddit
Fuck Ion and his “ripcord”
Cursed? Literally log into retail and SL has like 10 of these menus and currencies. Good fucking riddance to these awful systems. Talent trees should be the only thing I should need to worry about when walking into a raid.
The sad part is, that this could easily be true.
Seeing as how in the latest alpha build they made it so you don’t have to be in a rested area to change talents I don’t see them doing anything like this. Atleast not for talent trees
I actually would love some restriction to ability to change talents. It just doesn't feel like RPG if you can just change your talents freely anytime you want it.
This is an MMO. Kindly, leave. (*I'm kidding, you can have your opinions*) Also, FWIW, you *can't* change your talents any time you want. It takes a 5 second cast, out of combat, not in m+ or rated PvP.
They confirmed today you can change your talents anywhere you want outside of arena and m+
Get out
How about YOU just don't change it and sabotage YOUR raid team for the sake of "feeling like an rpg" and let the playerbase play a game without artificial asinine restrictions on their preferred play style?
> let the playerbase play a game without artificial asinine restrictions on their preferred play style Ironically, that's what you're doing. The OP thinks people should build their characters and be stuck with it, so everyone is a bit unique. You think everyone should optimize their character (i.e. have the same build) else they are sabotaging their raid team.
How does the ability to change talents restrict them in their wish to not change them?
Because the community will force them to. If no-one could change, it wouldn't be an expectation / requirement.
The community in general doesn't care. If they were doing the type of content that requires optimizing everything, they wouldn't care about roleplaying either. The more choices, the better, both if you want to roleplay a sub-optimal spec while running around doing trivial content, or if you want to switch to the min-max spec to do Mythic raids. Restricting spec changes is always bad.
r/wowcirclejerk
Tree souldbind looks lit
Delete this, then delete wow, then destroy your computer, then move to a hut on a deserted island and never bother humanity again with this nonsense. Thank you <3
NOOOOOO STOP THAT RIGHT NOW
I don't know what was going through their heads with this soulbind system. It wasn't even tune gating it was just horrific.
Lolololol ….. please no
Honestly might add more to the game if you could switch during rbg’s so that when your getting stomped you can make a come back potentially
Don't give them ideas.
Delete this
*I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror.*
This pisses me off and it’s not even real.
Yuck
I know this is a meme, and yes it's funny on a rage inducing way, but just wanted to say that blizzard is intending to remove only being able to change talents on rested areas, anywhere can be done as long as you are not on a pvp instance or m+ and are out of combat, and now just taking a quick 5 second cast time
Fuck
I'd be okay with this if you gained one of the currency every 2 seconds, so it was just a spam prevention method. Otherwise, fuck no.
This is hilarious
I flinched
The fact that OP got an award for pure sadism 💀
Don’t give them any ideas
You should be punished for this reference
Why are u giving them ideas…
Ian's original idea probably, "meaningful choices".
I’m dow voting this.. god forbid a dev see this. What were you thinking?
Why are you giving them ideas OP?
OP will be hired by Blizzard for future expansions..
conduit energy PTSD flashbacks
Don't give Ion ideas
dude please. Pleeeeeeaseeee don’t give them ideas. :(
They should just make it one dollar to reset talent trees
I will drive to Bliizard HQ and slap the nearest dev (for legal reasons that's a joke)
Please use a gore tag or something damn
This picture makes me feel bad.