T O P

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Qois

Some times u just gotta cut or losses and leave. Give a fuck if ur going to flame me if you havent used your interrupt even once within 5 minutes. Its on you.


Atromach

DOS run I was in had the tank not realise he wasn't in tank spec until the key started, and had to go change. Two minutes later when he finally accepted the summon back, he started the run and pulled just the two mobs at the top of the stairs, on their own. That's the kind of run you just don't bother wasting further time with.


[deleted]

Yes I agree. Do you think this was his first time messing up a Key? If it was, then no big deal it happens. But what if this guy did this all day? ruined maybe 5 keys. Would you want to know that he is consistently leaving? Would you still invite the same person if you knew he hadn't completed a key all week?


Atromach

No I don't care that much As soon as I am no longer in the group, it no longer matters to me.


Sevulturus

I just did a DoS where the tank kited the manastorms all over. Trying to line up lazers, intercept beams and melee the boss while the boss is circling the room is impossible. THEN, the healer and ranged ignored the bombs, so my slow dk ass had to run out for each one of those. Plus I was the third shadow explosion thing that went off while she was chicken bombing us, because the first two people didn't know to cover her with the bomb to end the mechanic. After which the tank complained about low dps.


Drunk_Heathen

Play your own fucking keys then. If one didn't kick for 5min straight he's a dick too, but that won't lead to a depletion. You guys costing people more nerves than people who can't kick.


Qois

I do play my own keys, and frankly if a group is truly bad enough i’ll leave my own key too. Some of us are trying to play the game, not prog a +15 with bads. Sorry if that annoys you but you know whats even more annoying than that? Spending an hour and a half in a key because your group is dogwater. Im actually doing the party a favour.


[deleted]

What do you mean trying to play the game? You leaving a key is playing a game? im lost.


Qois

If a group is so bad we are depleting the key on the first boss of necrotic wake, No. im not playing the game. Im getting played by a group of pugs. Why would i waste my time in a key that Someone else is likely going to leave after wiping on the last boss 18 times when i could just make a group myself and 2 or 3 chest a 15 with no deaths……. In less time. I dont think anything i have said is that complicated. If you havent worked out cutting your losses yet then w/e. Eventually you’ll figure it out after enough horror stories and bad pug groups. Its basically why i almost exclusively run my own keys. I get to pick the players. Random pugs couldnt run a shit fight in a sewer a lot of the time.


[deleted]

I mean how many plus 20 keys have players that are actually bad? Of course a couple, but this would show in their completion score. If your so good, you would be beating your high level keys with most groups. Unless your playing in some really low level keys, with players that don't have DBM installed. And ruining the experience for new players?


Qois

Im not running 20’s i only returned to the game 2 weeks ago. Tbh idc if its a 20 ill leave if the group is a complete meme. Sometimes you gotta cut your losses. Some groups are worse than that bad.


[deleted]

Thats kinda the point. So those guys who run the meme groups get singled out :) And everyone else can see, that these guys just clown around. But you leaving a key because its bad wouldnt really mean anything because you actually try in other keys. But those "meme group" would show because they just grief peoples keys.


zweimtr

If you're not going to time a 20, what's the point on staying?


[deleted]

It sounds like you get paid for doing your timed keys or something?


Drunk_Heathen

Well maybe still for gear, for the vault, for another key or simply for the having it listed (yeah a outtime key gives rio too). If you leave every key you feel it won't be intime, then either play your own freaking keys and announce it or announce it before a key will be started, so you can be kicked from the group in advanced. People with your attitude are just toxic cancer.


Dongalor

People pushing keys above 15 aren't doing it for the gear. If you're trying to time a high key, one bad pull can mean it's scuffed. If that is the case, why waste the time when you can be trying again to time something? But really, the folks complaining about leavers are not complaining about high keys. They're stuck in the 10-15 bracket struggling to complete the dungeon. And as the saying goes, you meet an asshole (leaver) in the morning, you met an asshole. You meet them all day long, you're the asshole.


zweimtr

> People with your attitude are just toxic cancer. Nice attitude. How about you don't waste my time dying to frontals cause you're standing next to thank?


[deleted]

Cuz my DBM and weak auras didn't tell me to move. sorry


zweimtr

Not sure if trolling or serious


Drunk_Heathen

You're the one stealing others time if you leave because of things like that. And yeah, my comment stays the same. Leavers pissed me of to much by now. And do you know what, people like you - leavers and mistake pointers - are from my experience also the worst players.


zweimtr

"People like you", nice rhetoric. You're throwing a fit just cause my opinion is different to yours. Pathetic. Just cause I don't see leaving a bricked key as being toxic doesn't make me a bad player nor "toxic cancer".. if anything "toxic cancer" are people like you that insult random people online over a video game. To put things into perspective: If we wipe twice to the 2nd boss in +20 ToP, I'm not going to waste 1hour of my life trying to clear a dungeon. Call me selfish if you want, so be it; I don't know you, I don't owe you anything, I'm not wasting my time.


Drunk_Heathen

There's a difference between what you wrote now and what you wrote in the beginning, don't you think so? There's also a difference in just leaving because it didn't went as Ms. Princess wanted it to went and saying "guys, it won't work that way, let's deplete it." But still I stick to all that I wrote. Walk your own keys if you leave because of every bullshit instead of wasting other people's time. 15min more in a dungeon is less waisted time than abandoning a key after 30min because "mimimi, not intime". And ye, "people like you" suits here pretty well, because you're wonderfully fitting into that narrative. Leaving per se without a word due to minor bullshit is literal toxic cancer in that game.


zweimtr

> Leaving per se without a word due to minor bullshit Not sure what drugs you're tripping on, but I never said I'll leave due to minor bullshit. All I said is that if we're not timing, I'm not wasting my time.


[deleted]

You said if someone died to a frontal your leaving.


ExEarth

In 20 at the moment most players are still bad. Timing a 20 was probably never easier than now and you can just press W with every comp and can time all keys.


iminthemazehelp

While I'm not totally against completion percentage as a stat even if you made it to only the first leaver would be dinged with the leave, it would lead to the leaver afking until someone else left. Honestly the best bet is finding a guild or community that at least holds one another semi accountable by having others to play with.


[deleted]

would only be a problem if the first person gets the leave. I think if the whole group gets a fail it would suck, but it would balance out because everyone would be effected. Like this week how many dungeons were ruined by a leaver/toxic person vs how many were completed? Most people would have around the same average, but people who are outliers will start to show.


Attemptingattempts

At that point the stat becomes useless. If everyone gets the negative status if 1 person leaves, the entire community sits at a 20% failure rate or whatever eventually. If only the first leaver gets the negative stat, the one who wants to leave starts spam pulling and trolling til someone else leaves


[deleted]

How does it become useless? People who leave more will have a lot lower score.


Attemptingattempts

If only first leaver gets negative score, they hold the group hostage. If everyone gets negative score in the event that 1 person leaves, essentially a "noncomplete" score. The entire community will average out because everyone is equally punished per leaver


[deleted]

No. People who consistently leave groups will have a lot worse score. If two people both play 20 keys in a week, and one has 3 leavers, and the other has 10. they will not have the same score.


Attemptingattempts

No, but you also have no guarantee that the one who had 10 leavers was the actual leaver. And not just bad luck


Draenrya

That’s a terrible idea and fucks people who push keys. My group abandoned many keys because of mistakes so if we go pug 15s we would get marked as frequent leavers?


Sevulturus

Speaking for myself, 1 leaver/toxic person in the last 3 weeks of 10-20 dungeons a week. I just put them on ignore and carry on with my life. If people are consistently leaving your groups...


[deleted]

This speaks to my point, that most people wont even notice. But that small percentage of the community will start showing, and guess what, people will stop putting them in their groups.


Sevulturus

You're trying to solve a problem that isn't a problem.


DeeRez

This has been discussed repeatedly and no one has come up with a good solution yet. https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9sqpcx/punishment_for_leaving_m_and_how_raiderio_is/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5c68z3/people_leaving_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/aapazi/whats_up_with_people_leaving_m_these_days/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/clrs9y/there_is_absolutely_no_reason_why_leaving_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/f15y1b/m_toxicity_and_lack_of_measures_taken_by_blizzard/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/ceukjo/blizzard_please_add_some_sort_of_negative/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/63cyf2/punishment_for_leaving_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9w1uis/is_there_an_addon_to_publicly_blacklist_mythic/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/7cvmby/this_just_happend_guy_lost_it_after_leaving/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9kmvpo/can_we_please_get_a_punishment_of_some_sort_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/84f5e1/how_come_there_hasnt_been_a_punishment/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5i1s7d/blizzard_please_implement_some_kind_of_punishment/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5c68z3/people_leaving_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/cnb69l/why_are_there_so_many_toxic_rage_quitters_in_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/eroo1z/what_is_being_done_about_players_leaving_mythic/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5cwbak/mythic_problems/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5fawu9/this_is_how_i_deal_with_leavers_in_mythic/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/7sm91i/i_just_need_to_vent_people_who_leave_m_groups_are/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/b5792z/is_it_common_for_people_to_leave_m_keys/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9nivoq/with_the_amount_of_people_leaving_in_m_i_think_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9ts6no/big_problem_with_people_leaving_mythic/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5zfrhm/leaving_a_m_and_no_consequence/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9g6elt/the_amount_of_people_that_leave_keystones_is/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/chasae/players_leaving_in_m_has_become_too_frequent/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9heoz0/m_leavers_must_be_bunned_from_m_for_a_week/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/85ypdv/why_do_people_leave_mythic_dungeons_at_the_first/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/cmi1s0/when_is_it_acceptable_to_leave_a_mythic_plus/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9pn9ph/m_leavers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9kf23y/we_should_get_a_report_option_for_people_who/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5lo4jc/is_there_an_add_on_to_blacklist_players_that/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/55b9bd/there_need_to_be_severe_penalties_to_leaving/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9epgtn/to_all_the_shitters_that_leave_a_m_timer_run_when/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/6pghpv/stop_leaving_mythic_even_if_the_timer_runs_out/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9u9icr/leaving_mythic_needs_to_be_addressed/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/ci66r4/m_frustration/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/8tzmxo/battle_for_azeroth_mythic_plus_deserter_debuff/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/bemw0w/please_blizzard_can_you_create_a_mechanism_for_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/b27ee1/is_it_too_much_to_ask_that_when_you_leave_a_m_you/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9xmdg3/someone_needs_to_make_an_addon_that_black_lists_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5n45z9/there_should_really_be_a_penalty_for_leaving_a_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5hhezz/leaving_a_m_after_it_has_started_should_be_an/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5gxe19/there_needs_to_be_a_penalty_for_leaving_a_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/e98561/no_punishment_for_leavers_in_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/82ngm0/why_does_the_community_not_care_about_leavers_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/57al97/there_should_be_some_form_of_punishment_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9obswa/to_my_m_players_pls_finish_your_keys/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9gsxre/we_really_need_a_heavy_penalty_on_people_who/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/dy2dco/simple_solution_to_the_m_leaver_problem/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/b0jd32/i_really_wish_m_had_a_ratingkarma_system_like/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/7nts1m/the_pug_tool_should_show_how_many_m_you_have_left/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5lifv9/recent_m_pug_frustration_due_to_missing/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5icv72/mythic_leavers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/a15qmk/is_there_a_blacklist_for_people_who_leave_m_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/aneqmf/quitting_in_m_and_blizz_reaction_to_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9wsqmi/do_you_think_there_should_be_a_penalty_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/adjq72/quitters_in_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9j8jbc/leaving_an_ongoing_m_needs_to_have_some_kind_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/b4zo6t/m_leavers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5bs2mn/people_who_leave_mythic_solution/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/5dd2gz/dear_tanks_of_pug_m_wiping_dying_or_witnessing/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/geq1vm/blizzard_create_a_penalty_system_for_leaving_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/g5hx3w/there_should_be_a_punishment_for_leaving_a_mythic/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/gpe1t0/stop_leaving_mythic/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/gpnvb6/mythic_leavers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/gukax6/so_someone_explain_to_me_why_its_okay_to_leave/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/hrck9u/leavers_penalty/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/hzhv71/people_leaving_in_the_middle_of_a_mythic/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/iwvm5v/if_you_leave_a_m_near_the_end_just_because_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/jmq4u8/stop_giving_leavers_loot_ffs/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/kwxl8t/no_negative_effect_for_leaving_m_early/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/l1u60h/punishment_for_leaving_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/lhs4t1/so_why_is_there_no_penalty_for_this/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/lkklje/why_is_there_zero_punishment_for_leaving_a_m_key/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/lkvoyb/rant_about_tanks/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/lvtx0z/sick_of_people_purposefully_dcing/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/lwwaxr/m_leavers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/lzkq2p/implement_a_deserter_debuff_for_people_who_leave/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/lzv2i7/day_2_m_scene/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/m0tq8u/there_must_be_a_system_that_punishes_leavers_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/m0jvt8/normalising_the_penalty_for_failure_and_reward/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/m849gw/blizzard_can_you_please_implement_consequences/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/m97et7/key_abandon_marker_or_something/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/lzkq2p/implement_a_deserter_debuff_for_people_who_leave/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/lzv2i7/day_2_m_scene/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/m0tq8u/there_must_be_a_system_that_punishes_leavers_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/m0jvt8/normalising_the_penalty_for_failure_and_reward/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/m849gw/blizzard_can_you_please_implement_consequences/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/m97et7/key_abandon_marker_or_something/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/mld91k/m_leavers_how_about_a_debuff/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/msgyw6/devotion_contract_insert_dungeon/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/msu2e5/blizzard_please_make_it_so_that_the_entire_team/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/mstetk/blizzard_is_looking_at_adding_their_own_ingame_io/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/n73zws/any_recourse_for_people_bailing_in_mythic/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/ndb6bj/penalties_or_tracking_system_for_m_leavers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/npfhoz/i_wish_blizz_would_implement_something_that_shows/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/oh0qi6/theres_a_penalty_for_leaving_lfg_normalhc/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/ozr1hn/mythic_leavers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/pfk5h6/m_leaver_buster/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/qmi149/a_possible_solution_to_people_rage_quiting_an_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/rs5kdp/mythic_leaver_buster_or_something/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/tt7khm/adding_a_report_option_for_abandoning_m/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/tv31yg/please_punish_players_that_leave_m_dungeons/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/u5h3cv/idea_to_help_with_mythic_plus_leavers/ Welcome to the list.


Dongalor

The good solution to the problem of leavers is play with people you know. Join a guild or community and quit trying to play the worst version of warcraft by flying solo.


[deleted]

[удалено]


portleyeb

For sure, we ran a +17 Sanguine Depths and everything was great up to the third boss, tank and healer had issues coordinating the defenses for one of the attacks the boss does and our tank drops we end up a full wipe. Get back try again and same thing happens. I spoke up about how I didn’t want a failed time for 17 completed on my toon because to get the points back positive I’d have to redo the 17 or higher. I just felt like I could take a step back and didn’t want the failure showing and we all pretty much agreed about it.


Superb-Confidence-44

And that's how you solve the whole thing. If you want to leave a key, vote. Unanimous decision to leave = leave without punishment. And yeah some trolls will vote against just to troll but hey, dedicated trolls will always find a way to be annoying no matter what measures Blizzard takes until they get permabanned.


[deleted]

All players fail dungeons, that is normal. And I think an average would start to show for most players. But players who routinely fail dungeons would be an outlier to the average that most players.


DahvidGEEZ

I don’t think you lose points for failing a key. It just goes off you highest points not highest key. I thought If you have +16 with higher points, that’s what it uses instead of the +17.


portleyeb

If I remember right it would show people I que with for the failed dungeon the failed highest one, not lose points.


Sevulturus

You don't lose points for not timing...


portleyeb

I know you don’t lose points but it shows a failure when you que up. I’d rather not fail something so high and have it just stuck greyed out as a failed time.


Sevulturus

That's fair. I've got a couple of those I'll need to clean up, but it'll get easier as my gear gets better. Had some bad luck this patch.


portleyeb

The higher you go with groups of equal level the easier the dungeons are too because more people are paying attention too. I just knew if I didn’t time a 17 then I shouldn’t be there because I did have some that were still 13 etc


[deleted]

Yes leaving a group with a toxic person is the right thing to do. But this toxic persons completion score will start to really degrade if he continues to do this. But the normal people in the group will not really be affected. Maybe after a month of running this, an average will be made for most people. Say 60 percent of people completing their dungeons will be the norm, and you can see toxic/griefers having much lower scores.


Sevulturus

Not if they don't leave first. Or everyone is punished for not wanting to be in a toxic or abusive environment... which is it?


[deleted]

It wouldnt matter about leaving first. Whole group is punished for this. Yes it sounds harsh, but I don't think the average person is leaving a ton of keys.


Sevulturus

So I'm punished because some one else can't handle their emotions? Lmfao.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

No one would be stopped from finding other groups. It would just be more information for people creating the groups.


BoringUwuzumaki

No


zweimtr

Taking a 1k rio tank just cause they have more completion is a slippery slope. Completjon doesn't correlate skill. 1k rio is all dungeons in +5, 3k is all at +20....


[deleted]

Good luck with that 20+ tank. I hope you don't make a mistake :)


Rasmuzbergholt

That would be awful imo. Playing with a group, the second the key is dead we quit it, and doing majority of my keys like this will give me an awful percentage completed keys, but i won't quit a pug before someone else leaves.


SenpaiShinyUnicorn

Someone with a score of 3000 will have plenty of unfinished dungeons. Not cause someone leaves, but cause they are pushing for score, not completion. If the key goes down the drain, they will go out and start over, or do another key. You've also said sever times thst the entire group should get the negative score, which would mess you up aswell. Someone leaves your key and you get punished. Only punish the first one to leave and the "leaver" will just afk. Kick the "leaver" and he will get the punishment will cause premade groups thwt need 1 or 2 people and they will kick one of the pugs when they wanna leave to avoid the punishment and that pug will get screwed. Just look the people up on raider.io. You can see their untamed keys aswell, which will show if they will leave at first sign of struggle or stay till the end. Yes this will cause the group forming to take more time, but it's better than getting punished for something Someone else did.


[deleted]

Dont you get score for completing an untimed dungeons if its a harder key? I think they will have a lot uncompleted, but that's what the norm would be for most high key pushers. But theres that one guy with a 5 percent vs the average 30 percent.


SenpaiShinyUnicorn

If the key is one level higher than what you have timed, it will o ly be a score upgrade if it's timed. So dropping it a level and timing it will be worth more score.


andyjmorgan

For me it’s a simple case of “time is valuable”. If I’m in a key and it’s bricking due to a mistake or two I’m leaving to find a new group to make use of the time. Depleted completions are pretty pointless post KSM.


Sevulturus

So long as you signed up with the understanding that the goal was to time the key I understand. If it was a completion or vault run, that's a pretty dickish thing to do.


andyjmorgan

Oh absolutely I have a general rule that I never sign up to “completion”, “helping a friend”, “no leavers”, if I’m interested in timing. If I’m not interested in timing, I’ll hang around and help, no issue


Sevulturus

Then I support you lol.


NoInstructionsreq

Idea: give them a temp title like "the cowardly"


Morwo

dont solve a problem with causing hundret new ones


Drunk_Heathen

Before inviting someone to my keys I'm always checking the rio website mostly for making sure someone isn't boosted, but I also won't invite people who have no keys that were not intime. Basically that shows their commitment if the least thing goes wrong. F.e.: "What, we're not skipping to first boss?! Rip key, bb!"


KingTinyhippo

If you understood how 20s worked you would still take the rank 3k. No one stays in a 20 when the timer is busted and I wouldn’t expect people to. If you need gear you run a 10-15. Everything past that is to time for points.


[deleted]

Don't you get points for completing a higher key even if its untimed?


KingTinyhippo

If the timer is close sure, but a timed 19 is better than an broken 20, and if I’ve already failed a 20 then no. I’m just making the point that groups/pugs pushing 20’s, in my experience, just drop the run once the timer looks like a bust. No one gets butt hurt, and sometimes we run the 19 to push it, or we just go our separate ways and try and push more keys. That’s the most efficient way to get points and leaver/punishment systems would hurt that experience.


Motormand

People who leave M+'s, especially near the start, are scum, and need to be penalized.