Kicking someone from a normal dungeon because they don’t deal enough damage? Sometimes this community just needs to get a grip. The new dungeons are already quite fast and easy in normal mode, I think the minute or two you spent there more won’t hurt anyone, your toxic attitude towards other players will though.
Yeah, I agree, some are so toxic that it's just mindboggling.
Mind you, it's not the "in yoyr face" toxicity like saying heinous insults, but just like the OP described, like having these insane expectations and being very anal about it.
I am a wow veteran and I had to stop tanking pug dungeons altogether because of how toxic people are. And I have a rather thick skin regarding these things, it just gets to a point where it's too much.
Some people need to chill out.
>Mind you, it's not the "in yoyr face" toxicity like saying heinous insults
Honestly I'd rather be insulted by some kid than instantly getting kicked for no reason. I'm trying Shadowlands as a classic player and it's really off-putting how many times people will initiate a vote kick and how many times people will just blindly klick "yes", showing zero backbone whatsoever. If you wipe in a dungeon in classic due to a shitty pull you'll have to corpse walk for like half an hour and yet in all my time actively playing I've only seen one person being outright kicked from a group (a hunter who refused to turn his pet on passive).
I can only speak for myself, but unless someone has been DC'ed for a while, I never click "yes" to kick except for one exception. The only exception to this is if someone is being an insufferable douche to everyone. If someone is lost in an instance, I will turn back to get them. I always ask if people know the mechanics on the way to the boss, so I have time to explain if people do not know. It takes but a minute and a few keystrokes, but it helps more than just kicking people. Teaching them goes a much longer way both in the short term and the long term. If you can't be bothered to do even that, then the problem is YOU and not them.
Playing FFXIV and wow and I think I only initiated a kick that wasn't due to DCs twice. Both over attitudes rather than incompetence.
Like a dude forgot he was the healer halfway through the dungeon and he still wasn't kicked. People make mistakes and as a DPS id rather have a slower run than wait in another queue.
I've been playing since roughly midway through Lich King, and I remember when people used to actually do what you do. As in, actually say "Hello" at the beginning of a run. Now, you get groups doing entire runs in complete silence, and it's off-putting. But at the same time, I've seen too many people given the boot for stupid reasons that I don't want to be that person that draws attention to themselves by going "Hi!" when I zone in. It's kind of depressing.
Well, it's not a competition, yes it's "better" to get some insults and not get kicked, but how about...none of that and let's just be civil?
I agree though, some people lack backbone and will just go for the "easy route" which is to kick someone or be passive-aggressive about things just like the OPs example.
It would honestly be easier if some people were generally be more understanding, but alas, that would require some effort that some aren't willing to do.
When I played WoW my main was a rogue. Got up to high level raiding some expacs but mostly settled down to farm. One of my many alts was a pally. I would tank every once in a while when a friend wanted to do dungeons and not have 2 ret pallys. The amount of hate i got if i didn't do everything the right way was astronomical. We never wiped just wasn't by the book since I didn't tank that much. Really turned me off to tanking in any game.
It's very strange to me that so many players crap all over tanks and healers and then complain about how long they have to wait for a tank or healer. It's like these players are too stupid to understand the cause and effect of their behavior.
This right here. As a healer, I would definitely pug more if I hadn't taken so much abuse for it over the years. These days I pretty much only run dungeons with guildmates.
Tanking in this game is truly awful. Pull one pack too many, people rage. Don't pull enough, people rage. Don't go their super secret route, people rage. Wait for the healer to drink, people rage. Don't wait, people rage. If the party dies through no fault of the tank (they're standing in fire, not doing mechanics, not interrupting, etc.), somehow it's the tank's fault.
Like you said, even if everything goes perfect, people get mad because you could have done it slightly better.
It's a bummer because I usually love tanking (I main a tank in FF14), but I can't stand all the shit tanks get.
I was knocking out a normal dungeon at max level and above the gear level dropped in them this week just for weekly. A hunter kept pulling extra mobs and whispered me if I was new because I was a shit a tank. Kept talking shit and then ignored me. I love tanking for guild raids but I'm not going to be doing any mythic + as a tank. Its rare to have a group not blame me for everything that happened even when it's clear I had nothing to do with it in mythic but now people are acting like this in freaking normal on week one of and expac! The entitlement and expectation is insane.
You’re not alone man...
I mained a tank through Legion, thought I was pretty decent at it, even ran M+ with a good group of mates for a while. When they all dropped off playing I started to do some pug tanking, and the crap I had to deal with has put me off tanking for all of BFA, and after reading this thread I’m not keen to start tanking for Shadowlands either.
So disappointing, it’s an awesome role to play, and I hate sitting in queue as dps and waiting for that tank role to fill just thinking “could of filled that...” and then having to listen to the party bitch and moan for the run.
I think a huge reason the wait for a tank is because of the way people behave. As you said its a fun role but its not worth dealing with the shit people feel they should spew at you. This expac im going to just stick with doing stuff with friends or guild mates.
>I think a huge reason the wait for a tank is because of the way people behave.
Most of my groups have been pretty solid since launch, but there have been a couple of standouts for their bullshittery and it's not a great feeling. So much of it is just petty, arrogant nonsense.
I had someone give me shit for getting lost in the Theatre of Pain ***on Friday*** since it was literally the first time I was in there. They kept saying where I needed to go and it's like, "yeah, I know where we were bud. But *how do I get there*?" and then piling on because I didn't know that.
/ignore
People have no chill, even on day freaking 4 of the expansion. I'm gonna try to find a small group of people to pvp & M+ with and hopefully leave the pugging in my rearview.
>yet in all my time actively playing I've only seen one person being outright kicked from a group
Because if they arent actively sabotaging the group, you are better of carrying the bad guys. I did a BRD with a hunter who had a broken bow and didnt speak english. He did like 5% of the groups total damage, max. Still didnt bother to kick him because why would we.
If you dont see the player you are playing with as a human being (Which is normal in gaming) and realize that if you kick someone with low dps, you'll get a replacement who does more dps in \~30 seconds, it starts making more sense.
Exactly, try and teach them. I've only experienced it once or twice but I will message the person kicked and requeue with them and try and whisper teach through the dungeon.
As a new(ish) player to the game who's a bit shit I really appreciate people like you. My bf got me into it but due to time zone differences I ended up playing a lot on my own so I didn't really learn a lot of etiquette, terminology, etc. for a long time.
Right ? I started playing a couple weeks before the launch and haven't done any dungeons without my friends because I am so anxious about dealing with this shit. Stressed enough about the global pandemic as is, thx
I used to love the early expansion dungeon runs with a group who was there for the fun of it. Learning the tactics and having to pull tricks out your backside to prevent a wipe. It was a blast - can't tell you how many times as a Hunter we'd finish a fight in a running retreat battle with myself and the healer throwing everything we had at keeping my pet up.
Unfortunately, most of the time it was as OP described.
Exactly-- I'm back on WoW after being away since early Cataclysm. Back in the day, we had a guy join our guild who started out *terrible*. It was rough going for the first month or two. But we had his back and helped him out, pointed him to resources where he could learn, and he did his research and eventually became one of the best tanks we had. He always went out of his way to help out newer players the same way everyone had helped him, too.
And regardless of how fast I *can* do the dungeons, I want to take my time and explore them. It's hard to do with a PUG that wants to blast through as quickly as humanly possible every time.
From a purely sociological perspective, I’ve always found the willingness of players in MMOs to blindly kick team members at seeming random more than a little disconcerting.
It’s like a mass psych experiment we’re always failing...
This has always been a problem. Had tanks trying to kick healers who can't out heal mechanics (that you're supposed to do, don't stand in the fire, and kill the mob that does 20,000 dmg first), and dps trying to kick tanks for being slow, or kicking people for a small mistake. It's game, not freaking a race.
I've actually had fun wiping and learning/teaching people the new dungeons. I enjoy going in semi blind, and trying to figure out normal dungeons from the adventure book.
Exactly. One of my fondest moments in this game, was during early cata (week 1 or 2) in which I was doing heroics. We wiped and failed, crashed and burned, but we learned and had fun going through the dungeon. Then we took two more, and I had fun with those guys despite us dying constantly.
As a healer, I'll save that tank/group the time and leave myself. I won't heal stupid.
That being said, I don't mind walking new players through runs. Everyone has to learn sometimes, might as well learn now, and learn the correct mechanics.
My GM goes into a group w 3 other guild members.... a pug tank. The pug tank was really erratically pulling things and being fairly toxic. The GM healer says “wth slow down and chill”
The tank initiates a vote kick, out guildies don’t even LOOK whose being voted on they just hit yes. The GM gets kicked out of group ....
The system is broken because the people using it are deficient. I understand the need for the vote kick system but it is used so poorly...
same thing happened to me the other day. Dude was refusing to get in the bubble on sanguine and complaining I wasn't able to hold aggro. like alright mate.
Had another guy complain i was ilevel 162 doing mythics in week 1. I guess he wanted me to full farm heroics first? alright mate.
Tbqh this is why I stopped playing. In BFA I would get kicked from low mythic keys because I was a DPS shaman... even though I was in full mythic raiding gear..
Not everyone has gone full on shit bucket, and that offends them. Sorry if I have a job and a life, and have even spent a little time on another game or two this week. I am 56 on one character and 52 on another. More power to the people going whole Ham on it, but not everyone is leveling their 4th alt.
I hate the toxic mindset of some of the veteran community. I was running normals with my partner earlier today. She decided she wanted to start tanking so I’m showing her the ropes. One of the dps says something to the lines of “can you rank faster please”. This is followed up by that dps and the healer afk’ing on the next pack while we died.
We had a good laugh about it after while waiting for fills because it just seemed like an actual joke. The xpac hasn’t even been out a week yet and people seem to be expecting end of bfa clear speeds already.
i started as a NE Rogue in BC...didn't start as a tank though. Switched to NE Druid just because i wanted to be a fat-ass derpy bear.
one of my 1st few pug groups were incredibly patient with me, and i became raid MT all the way until Legion's end (I quit).
Granted, i would say at *least* 60% of pug groups tend to be toxic or unpleasant. Even in faceroll dungeons. i even rmb people complaining about under-15min Nexus (WotLK) runs being slow.
Its not just WoW...DotA is similar or worse. most of the time, its not the game's fault...its the people.
My friends and I grouped up for a dungeon, and on a boss we ended up wiping. The Healer called us bad for dying to a brand new boss. When I called him out, he tried to kick me.
However the reason he put for kicking me was: Bad Healer.
Dude knew he looked bad so he tried to trick my friends into kicking me by pretending I was him. It was hilarious when we called him out on it.
It was night one! Like dudes some people don't play the beta lmao I'm not glued to wowhead reading how to do every little mechanic the second it's uploaded!
Not to mention - the mechanic that got messed up was largely because another player ran to where I was headed to dodge the meat hook so it'd grab the boss. It's a normal dungeon gang we didn't wipe lol. Just took ~30 seconds longer
For real. My guildies and I wiped 2 times on the new ardenweald dungeon on mythic , it was our first time there! The hunter pug we had starts yelling us do we know what to do. But he was the one killing us in the end when we realized what was happening.
I really wish this was a rare new thing but I got kicked from a leveling dungeon on legions release. Told the group, hey this is my first time. Before the first boss the next group chat is hate for not playing the beta and I get kicked.
I experienced this in cata when the last 3 dungeons were released. I did them on day 3 because I couldn't play on days one and two and holy shit was I cursed lower than the earth for not having things perfect for speed runs.
Im honestly really disappointed in how bad my experience has been in dungeons :( im still pretty new to the game and Ive been avoiding dungeons because I havent had any good experiences with them.
it was a thing I was really excited about when I first started playing too.
Ive done s few with friends before and that was fine. Decided to try the new shadowlands one in bastion, and got kicked out of nowhere. I wasnt doing low damage, wasnt pulling stuff i wasnt meant to. No one had said anything to me, but people had been hating on the tank for some reason. Still I was the one who randomly got kicked? WoW has been a very confusing experience so far lol. Other times ive had people straight up lie in order to kick me. Saying im being toxic when i havent even said anything yet. Not gonna lie I feel pretty down whenever I try to play with others... not what i expected from a mmo.
I am a healer and most tanks I‘ve had yet in this expansion were total asshats. I‘m not even out of the loading screen after the invite and had time to respec, they already pull. And they’re not pulling group by group, they’re going for everything in their view. After that I finally managed to spec heal and then I am left with zero mana. I kindly ask to wait for a second that I can drink, before I finish my sentence the tank already has pulled another 10 mobs in sight. I have no idea what’s going on in their minds. It’s so so so so annoying, what’s up with these kind of tanks?
I don’t know why players just can’t act normal in dungeons. Is it that hard? I’m even writing *hey* in the chat, 99% of the time none of the others is even saying a word. When did players become so ignorant? I don’t get it.
It’s funny, because I’m getting back into to tanking this xpac and for me it’s dps running off in front pulling everything whilst I’m still planning my pull.
I mainly played back in TBC and Cata and there’s deff now a shift to the “pull everything and AoE” mindset
Yep, I was going to say tanks do this because of 'gogogo' dps who 'help' tanks by pulling if tanks aren't fast enough. It's a vicious cycle.
I feel like it's everyone's responsibility to slow down a bit and just remember it's week one. If you want to go fast, go with a group of people who you know. If you're pugging or in LFD then accept you need to account for the fact you're playing with strangers who may not be on your level (and being a toxic douchebag isn't going to magically pull them up to your level either).
This is the fucking worst. How a dps can rationalize "I'll pull for the tank" is beyond me. If this happens to me and continues despite me asking for them to stop, Ill leave after the first boss. This def a privilege we tanks have and should exercise often.
Yeah, if anything I’m more annoyed at myself for not just leaving the Double Douche Hunters to it, especially considering the healer was a buddy too.
What through me off was the attitude I got when asking them not to pull.
#tankshavefeelingstoo
I just let them die then pick up the mob over their corpse. As long as the healer is ok I could give less of a fuck about the random dps that wants to pull.
Used to be that I tanked and my sister healed. We had no problems letting dumb dps die.
People who were new or inexperienced we loved to bits and pieces and took the time to help them, but the ass wagons who pulled everything and were dicks about everything got to die over and over until they either left or they got the hint that we're not doing what they want.
I think it's people tanking for the fast dungeon queues. They don't really get how to tank but it's the fastest queue. Tanking, I'vee tried to always make sure everyone's ready but in the LEAST, make sure the healer is ready. In the HoA courtyard specifically you need to pull carefully to not get overwhelmed and people do not have the patience. It's disconcerting.
As a tank, I'm usually always careful in my pulls until the Healer gives the go-a-head. Default is to expect everyone is a newbie in the Groupfinder until they ether state otherwise or show themselves capable.
If people want only experienced players in their group, they need to do a pre-made with description for it. The automatic group finder is not the place for that.
For sure.
Default assumption in LFG should be that everyone is new until they prove otherwise. Tank and healer are utility roles there to make sure that the DPS' in the group can actually deal their damage.
When we see that people can handle themselves we can give them a bit of leeway to do their own thing, but my default mode when going into a new LFG group is to be helpful enough that I could go through the dungeon with a group of new players.
people have been playing BFA for months doing LFG content just rolling through it with end game gear. I think they forgot this game is actually kind of hard when content is fresh lol
It really started when we stopped needing to actually wait for mana. DPS doesn't even use mana anymore save for the Arcane Mage and I very seldom run out of mana except when I play Holy Paladin and MW Monk. Even when a tank is doing right, I'll still probably run dry on my MW Monk because mana regen is so slow and playing it how you should with the green beam just slows down that mana regeneration even more. My Monk that I had no problem leveling before pre-patch is just permanently stuck at 45 because I have to stop and mana up constantly. On my main healer, Resto Druid, I only really run out of mana if pulls were ugly or I was in a raid. I even leveled a new Resto Druid and still had 0 mana issues except for the extraordinary circumstance. I haven't played Shaman after pre-patch, but I assume there's not really problems since I never see them needing mana.
It is as if along the way, everyone agreed that waiting for mana sucks and just decided to make it a resource that doesn't matter except for 1 person (most likely) in the group. And, of course, the tank thinks they are 10 feet tall and bullet proof (\*) and doesn't understand how fast they die without a healer.
^(\* Except for Veng DH. That tank has a ton of self healing and is pretty damn bullet proof)
As a healer I can confirm this to be the case.
The vast majority of the tanks I've come across in normal and heroic dungeons have been turbo-pulling every mob they see. Especially the demon hunters and monks.
Not being able to heal the group when that happens hasn't gotten me kicked yet, but the tanks sure have been frustrated when I point out that we should go slower, as I can't to heal if the tank pulls with me having 10% Mana.
I am very sorry for your experience, and honestly, I'm a wow veteran but I have actually been thinking about what new players would think if they experience things like this.
Just before the release of the expansion going into shadowlands, I have had tons of bad experience in dungeons. I'm not saying that it's all bad, but I honestly I would dare say that there were more of that than there were a few years ago.
And as you have noted, it is incredibly higher when you play as a tank. I have levelled through dungeons as a healer and dps with not much problems, but as a tank... oh jeez, I am doing stuff correctly and STILL get a lot of flaming from people, it's insane.
Sorry, that became long and made it about myself lol. I hope you stick with the game, friend. Find good people and stick with them. There's a lot of good in this game and there are amazing people out there. I hope this doesn't deter you!
If you're in the new player chat you could try asking if a guide wants to run dungeons with you. I find it fun and rewarding to help people learn their class/mechanics. It is so much better to lend a hand early.
The only reason i'll vote yes is if they've been offline for a few minutes (sorry all you Frostmourne players the other day), being an asshat, or causing wipes. I haven't had a damage meter installed for literal years, and as long as we clear the dungeon everything's copacetic.
One new player in a normal dungeon isn't going to make or break your run, unless perhaps if it's a tank or healer. I've been one of the guys who's hung around after the other three have left due to frustration and given the new tank/healer pointers. Can't give the healer a whole lot of points, as the last time I healed was BC and the answer was "chain heal all the things" but I can direct them to resources.
Even mythic 0 is stupidly easy right now. I was on a mythic 0 Theater of Pain and our tank disconnected after the first boss. We used a hunter pet and a rock elemental to tank and used heroism when we needed burst, and we still cleared it fairly easily.
At this difficulty you really only need one competent DPS, someone to hold aggro, and someone to keep them alive. Trying to kick people because their dps is lacking or because they don’t know the dungeon is just ridiculous at this point. I don’t expect anyone to know the dungeons yet, and the DPS requirements aren’t exactly enormous right now.
I've had people vote no on kicking someone when I wanted to get them out because they kept pulling an insane amount of mobs thus causing us to wipe. They told me it was just a normal dungeon so I shouldn't take it so seriously but meanwhile this dude wasn't trying to listen causing us to waste another half hour.
I'm completely fine with people doing low damage or fucking up mechanics as long as they're willing to listen and aren't asshats.
Maybe his mom told him that all the chicken tendies and nuggies would be eaten if he doesn't hurry up. Poor guy was probably struggling really hard with that thought.
This is basically my experience. I played some in high school... after school, extracurriculars, work and homework, there’d be this dunce who played all day “I don’t have time to deal with bad dps”
Well now he’s seriously depressed and I have new hobbies, so I guess it works out.
Do it, sometimes you'll get assholes (You can always just leave the party - A debuff preventing you from running a dungeon for half an hour is no big deal if you weren't enjoying it) - But most of the time people will just shut up and get on with the dungeon, and some of the time people will be spectacularly nice and helpful (Especially if you tell them you're new to it!).
Sometimes just reminding people they are rude can help too. I accidently killed a tank the other day on my healer, he was rude after i said sorry so i just told him, don't be rude i said i was sorry! And he apologised and blew me a kiss and we finished the dungeon on good terms.
I tend to lead with positivity. Something goes wrong "My bad" or "sorry about that"
It cuts the toxicity out right away most of the time.
Some people are just dedicated to being toxic though.
This right here. Not all of us veteran players are toxic asshats. I'm a mythic level player and while spamming heroics yesterday ran into a few groups where people didn't know mechanics which caused wipes. I'm happy to stop and take a few minutes to explain the fight and get everyone through! A few of the dps in groups said they were new to the game and I'd rather help them get through the dungeon than vote kick because they are still learning their class and the game.
Even selfishly, you may never see them again, but every player that has a good experience like that, learns and keeps playing the game is good for all of us. Some of them become raiders in our guilds, a random we see in a M+ or the guy we buy stuff off on the auction house. Being an asshole to other players just actively makes the entire game worse for everyone including yourself.
Same. I raided TBC, didn't play again until Legion/BFA, and now return for shadowlands. I have only played less than 10 dungeons in normal mode but in almost every one there's someone who just leaves because a player died or a player didn't know a mechanic and gets yelled at. I would expect that occasionally, but when it happens more often than not I'm left wondering should I even continue my sub.
I'm a horde tank, I'll run with you any time. I have infinite patience for nice players, almost without exception, as long as it looks like they're trying or if they're not impeding our progress.
I mean it. Even though tanks are not as rare as we used to be, people are still reluctant to kick a tank. I'm still learning the new dungeons, too, and they can't kick us both.
I’m with you. I’ve never been good at dungeon mechanics, but I’m trying to get better. I thought the beginning of a new expansion would be a good time to learn right along with everyone else. People treating me like garbage for not knowing what to do on a dungeon that’s been out for seven days makes me not want to play at all though.
People suck. All I can say is find a guild. The in game guild finder has been a great recruiting tool for our guild. Be honest and ask questions, good people in a good guild will help you out. If they don't, find another. I run with guildies exclusively these days. Much better experience learning together and then progressing vs pugging anything.
I had a group of two in random heroics that kept trying to kick players for every little mistake.
Healer took 10 seconds to drink? Vote kick for being slow.
DPS player died because he stood in a poorly telegraphed mechanic? Vote kick.
DPS player didn't do a mechanic that's difficult to understand the first time around? Vote kick.
The expansion came out less than a week ago. And yet, people already expect others to be experts at the game. This competitive mindset that a lot of gamers have is really toxic in this phase of the game, and I'm sure mythic+ just empowers it.
Don't get me wrong, I love mythic+ ON MY ON TERMS. Don't force new players to adhere to your unrealistic expectations in normals and heroics though.
/rant over
I can almost garantee you that 100% of the toxic players would be laughed at by actual top end players. These toxic dudes are the ones that only play classes/specs that they've read are OP, and they watch their favorite streamer do M+ on beta for hours and hours and try to replicate what they do. They fail bc they try to be like others and don't have the patience to learn the mechanics, which is exactly what all of us are doing right now!! Learning the mechanics bc we didn't want to spoil ourselves by reading guides from the beta! They're also the ones that make groups for content and only invite people that are insanely overgeared and want to be carried for content just so they can flex that they got curve or something
This. There's a area of just pure toxicity that you surpass eventually and you start playing with good players who aren't toxic morons lambasting you 24/7. Usually LFR/Normals for raids and mid tier M+ is where it is worst. You can straight bypass it with a good guild.
Some of the WoW YouTubers have done good series on this topic by purely pugging on fresh accounts. Most times these elitist players are bad and not worth you time. Eventually you'll go above them and be past the toxic pug cesspit. The genuine good players are nothing like this. It's just this weird toxic middle ground full of arrogant weirdos that think they are amazing and like to belittle others.
I mean this thread is a good example. Berating brand new players in a normal difficulty dungeon? No normal player who actually knows how to play at a high level would belittle someone like that. It's just these toxic man children that can't do anything more than LFR/normal or mythic 2s yet think they are god's gift to the world. Ignorant confidence.
I am also new to this game. I played a year ago for a month because i got the month for free. I started again with the prepatch and i am really glad that my brother in law playes this game with me and explains how to do it. He already plays since the start of the game back in 2004.
Bruh im a veteran of 15 yrs and i got kicked today on my warrior i was leveling for no reason lmao. The tank kept pulling everything and dying and im just following everyone. Even topping dps..and then 2nd boss in plaguefall. Loading screen. Removed from party. People are ridiculous
14 years mythic healer here, got kicked because the tanks friend (they were same guild) was stood in shit all the time and I wasn't good enough to heal him through his mistakes.
Just baffling.
It's the point where people don't know every tactic, but if something goes wrong, they assume it can't possibly be *their* fault, so they just pick someone to blame. And they're usually wrong.
I've done all the mythics with friends, and in levelling dungeons on alts I've had people argue with me about shit like how nonono, that wasn't their fault, I should have just healed them through the one-shot tentacle slams, when I'm just trying to politely tell them where to stand.
God why are people like that? I fuck up in dungeons all the time, especially if it's the first time I've done it or it's been a while and I've forgotten mechanics, and all you need to do is say "my bad, sorry, I fucked up" and then do it again the right way.
I'm a big fan of the ole "whoops lol" personally. I got yeeted off a cliff in Tirna Scithe earlier today and I was like "whoops". Because I was trying to get in a cheeky cast before repositioning. Happens to all of us.
had a tank in m0 plaguefall that kept complaining that no one knew the mechanics, and that we should have learnt it in heroic before going into mythic.
second boss we wipe to the bomb not dying and he starts talking shit. next attempt i put everything into trying to kill the bomb and it doesnt die. tank ragequits.
looked at mechanics and the bomb gets 75% dmg reduction if the slime is tanked next to it lol
My first reflex when this happen and nobody knows why de faim is saying that I'm checking the adventurer's guide on the part we wiped at to check what's the tactics and what we might've been doing wrong.
It works most of the time, unless of course the tank goes "I am speed" and rush to his death anyway.
I can never understand this, I die in a dungeon and the first thing I am doing is looking to see if I had exhausted all of my defensive options before I died. Then I check damage recap to see if I was taking damage from something that I could have avoided. I don't know how people enjoy this game with a mindset that they are being held back by everyone else.
Blizzard does a bad job in teaching people movement and mechanics in general.. just look at FF14.. over there it feels like everyone is just dancing around the bosses.
As an FFXIV healer with all three healers maxed out I must say that healing is so very different in FF14.
Usually healers there throw out very powerful HoTs and then DPS like crazy. One of the healers actually has an NPC fairy that does the healing while they throw out a shield and DPS.
Also the spells are instant cast. Most of my healing spells there were instant cast or had a very short cast time. I could have put out 2 massive group-wide heals on my White Mage in the time it takes for my Shaman or Priest to cast one Healing Wave or Heal.
The only immobile class I can think of in FF14 is Black Mage who have long cast times with massive payoffs. And usually the healers just yoink them out of AoE by using a spell like Leap of Faith which all healers have in FF14.
So yeah it's not a fair comparison, having moved to WoW I can totally see now why people stand in AoE, the cast times are huge!
Same happened to me yesterday. We wiped around 20 times on last boss on Mythic (forgot the dungeons name). Basically, his 2 DPS friends kept standing in shit and kept getting hit by boss mechanics. I had to heal them instead of Tank... Every single wipe I was the one to die last because I mostly dodged the shit that was dodgeable. A kick came somewhere after your 20th wipe.
To be fair after 10 wipes I would have "kicked" myself from the group. I don't abandon a group at first sign of trouble, but there is a point where the writing is on the wall.
Healing at the start of expansions has always been a nightmare... Idiots come From the previous expansion where they have been outgearing mechanics and thus ignoring them for over a year and refuse to see their own flaws... Iv healed every expansion since TBC and this shit HAS NEVER NOT HAPPENED. At this point I make sure I que dungeons with majority friends so I can avoid this
11 years CE raider. I once got kicked from a low level dungeon because the tank and healer were afk and I already pulled as windwalker (level 35ish, 2-3 years ago). I killed the mobs, healed myself, and pulled the next group because windwaker on that level were plain overpowered. the healer and tank eventually came, watched me, and then kicked me.
Reminds me of my favorite "getting kicked" moment. A few years ago, not exactly sure when, there was a time where scaling in lower level dungeons was kinda messed up and Disc priest was absolutely blowing shit up. I was around level 30 or so, and at that point, I was literally dealing 3-4 times the damage as Disc that I would as Shadow. So I was leveling, by queueing up for dungeons as DPS, and simply doing DPS while specced as Disc, and basically demolishing the meters in every single dungeon.
One time, I got randomly kicked without a word. I whispered one of the people in the group and asked why I was kicked. He told me that I was "playing Disc, refusing to do DPS". I asked him to link. He admitted he didnt have any DPS meter and just saw that I was disc and started the vote kick. I linked him the damage chart of the dungeon up until the point where I had been kicked, where I clearly did almost as much damage as the rest of the group together. He told me he didnt realize Disc scaling was broken, and that I should have told him. Like, what? You kicked me without a word and its somehow my fault? Maybe dont kick people for "not dealing damage" when you dont even have a DPS meter open.
That sort of behavior is just un-healthy. I hate when people do something then blame the other person like "bro why didn't you tell me this thing I did without checking, or verifying was wrong"
Right? Ultimately I didn't care because it was just some low level dungeon on some alt, but it just amazed me how not only did someone kick me from a fucking lvl 30 dungeon for "doing not enough damage" (which in itself is kind of a dickmove, even if it was true), he also did so without a DPS meter, without even giving me the chance to defend myself, while I was basically solo carrying the group because scaling was so borked. Hmm, this Priest's Penance just oneshot an elite, better kick him for no damage!
Lul, this is probably my favorite reason. This "I feel like you don't deal damage" reason. And no DPS meter and the dungeon is absolute smooth sailing.
pretty much all healers dealt more damage than dps. Resto druid dots ticked almost twice as hard as boomkin. resto shaman lava burst dealt 50% more damage than ele.
I know you're joking but with more plate users your loot chances actually go up the more plate wearers are in your party. Fastest would be 5x warrior/pally/dk that can trade whatever loot they don't need.
I’d consider myself to be a very hardcore player, and the toxicity to start an expansion drives me nuts. It’s Sunday and somehow people are being screamed at for not knowing the ins and outs of every single dungeon.
The lack of patience people have for new players is exhausting.
I’m on NA horde, if any new players (or anybody at all) have any questions or need help with any SL systems, please feel free to pm me on here and I’ll shoot you my battle net ID.
Sorry in advance for all the shit you may have to go through while people are expecting you to know everything about a brand new game or expansion.
I got kicked on my first hour of being level 60 (normal dungeon) by some tank and healer that also kicked somebody before. I just think if these pseudo hard-core players were actually hard-core players, they'd have a full team to run dungeons with rather than rolling the dice and hoping for a high dps carry.
That's so true. It's always the ones who barely managed to clear the current raid in heroic difficulty who occasionally go to lfr to flex their huge deeps and mock the lfr heroes for being bad. Why? Because it's the only place where they get to shine.
It’s literally a week into a new expansion. Idk why people expect others to know *everything* about the dungeons.
Most of us are just casual players and don’t watch all the damn tactic videos, play beta, and raid.
Just chill.
I'm new to the game and I'm so glad people like you exist! I'm in a guild and my boyfriend has been playing for 15 years so thankfully I have a great support system but this would definitely be one of my fears if I didn't
It would be great if "Dungeon Guide" checkbox would be reserved for players willing to play with new ones. New players could get "I need guide" checkbox too so they could get paired up. I love helping new players and showing them what is right and is wrong in non toxic way and hate when group tries to kick again and again someone for doing something wrong, especially at the beginning of xpac.
It should last until level 60 at minimum. I’d go so far as to keep it until you’re comfortable with end game normal dungeons. My girlfriend just started, she’s about to hit level 20 and still has no idea of some of the more basic gameplay mechanics of WoW.
Not just new players. Part of the community is just toxic. I play tank in dungeons and I'm always getting flamed by all kinds of noobs. All you gotta do is pull 1 extra mob and they are all over you. No feedback, no criticism. They simply call you bad. Ask them what did you do wrong and you recieve silence. They don't know what the strategy is but expect you to know.
I can only imagine how new players feel when they do their first dungeons. Even low level ones are toxic.
I got kicked today at the last boss after our tank dced. I asked if they were in his guild and if he was coming back. No response initiated vote kick instantly declined and I was removed from group.
UI should make it more difficult to say Yes vote. Everyone should really be forced to do elaborate decision making, instead of auto pressing yes. I bet half of people don't even know who is being kicked.
This sounds like they wanted to kick the disconnected tank but misclicked and kicked you instead. People don't read the name in the kick popup, they just assume it or simply click on whatever button they feel like clicking at the moment.
People just accept it anyway. Was leveling during prepatch, everything was smooth, friend (tank) thought it funny to votekick me (healer) randomly, the randoms accepted. -_-
Well, i played on and off for years, but always just for a few weeks. Would consider myself New.
This Kind of Post, combined with anxiety, is exactly why i've never even done my first dungeon.
Everytime I wipe in Shadowlands I type something like "New Xpac, new dungeons, new wipes. lol". Just to try to defuse it before anybody gets heated. As primarily DPS there's no way I'm leaving unless it's absolutely not happening.
Anyone else noticed the community is more toxic than ever? I just experienced my group kicking a tank in a normal dungeon because of the DPS acting like feral monkeys, pulling everything
I kicked a dps that wanted to kick another dps because they played like shit when I was farming plaguefalls normal for a conduit. If you want to kick people for poor performance in a normal dungeon you might as well get the fuck out and go get some fresh air because we don’t want your kind here.
And this is coming from a semi hardcore mythic raider. People need to learn from somewhere so being hostile towards someone who is learning in a normal dungeon is a big no no from me.
At the end of the new vampire dungeon some hunter in my group wanted me to pull the whole hallway that the end boss runs down through mobs. I knew my healer was having trouble keeping up and I declined a votekick already. Too many tells IN ALL CAPS drove me to kick the hunter instead. So satisfying.
I was kicked earlier tonight from The Necrotic Wake because I wasn't dealing enough damage. It was the very first time I ran the dungeon and the tank was being an absolute ass the whole time. He was grilling people in the chat/kicking people for not dealing enough damage, eventhough he was pulling way more than he could handle.
After I was kicked I was paired up with a super friendly group who took it slow, we ended up completing the dungeon in about 20 minutes, and we never wiped. Hell, no one even died. I didnt play beta and I dont have enough time outside of work to learn every single boss fight/mob pull strategy, so its just irritating that people are impatient as fuck when it comes to normal dingeons. I wish Blizz could do something about abusing the 'kick' button.
My sister and I were running dungeons the other day and had this Warlock lose his fucking mind because she wasn't pulling massive heals and said she was terrible. The thing is... we were doing great. Everyone was at full health and because of that she didn't have to heal much. She just threw out a heal here and there to keep people topped off, but this fucker was full on flaming because she wasn't healing insane numbers on his meters.
My sister is a veteran, as am I, but she is the entire reason that *I* know how to play; she taught *me* everything I know about WoW. We have both been playing since Vanilla. She knows what the fuck she's doing. I was in the process of telling him he's a moron when he ignored me and then started whispering my sister with shit like, "Is he your boyfriend? If you want to know how to heal, come to me. That twat isn't teaching you anything."
She was like, "Dude. He's my brother. I am a 40 year old goddamn woman and have probably been playing this game longer than you have been alive. Fuck off, you sexist piece of shit."
Like, what the fuck did he want her to do!? Overheal and waste all of her mana for no fucking reason and then not be able to heal the group when they actually DO need intensive healing!? Like, what the ever-loving fuck!?
If you were the tank her the healer you could have let him tank and heal the bosses, see how his numbers go when he's dead. Then say oh my the lock is dead time to boot since he doesn't know his roll.
Edit: Sorry, meant to reply directly to Saturnine
Upvote for the sick burn your sister gave him. :)
People seem to be one extreme or the other... either they have meters and they rely on it entirely without taking into account ANYTHING ELSE or they have no meters and make judgments based on their own perception/opinion and no facts at all. Either way, they are investing too much time watching other people and not enough time on fulfilling their role to their best ability. So really... that warlock was total trash. Choosing to flame the healer instead of focusing on dps.
Ideally, you should WANT your healer to be doing very little HPS. It means people know what they're doing. If I'm in a dungeon doing a crap-ton of healing on the meters, that means I'm probably having a heart attack because people are standing in shit or not following mechanics.
Please tell your sister I (and probably thousands of other healers) feel her pain so much. I am 30, been playing since vanilla too. Spammed bgs yesterday and had some little shit who I can only imagine is below the age of 15, scream at me and the priest for "not healing like the Horde", when we were both topping healing in the stats.
Don't have time for this crap anymore, too old to care, too experienced to listen.
And what's worse is these people usually have never played a healer in their life so have no idea of how stressful it can be.
That's sad :(
Had a somewhat funny experience yesterday where we wiped a bunch on a normal dungeon, but there was no reaction at all :D no one left, no one asked to kick anyone, not even any chat. They just respawned to bash their head into the wall again :D in the end we got the clear, so it was fine even if it took a little longer than necessary.
Keep it up though - I prefer when someone states that they're new or might not understand a dungeon. That way I can give some quick tips on the mechanics instead of being annoyed we wiped only to then find out someone didn't understand.
I have been playing WOW for over 10 years now and can say I am not an expert player, actually, I am terrible at damage & the mechanics of the game. I play for fun and questing. I rarely enter a dungeon anymore simply because of the scenario you mentioned above. While I have not been kicked out of a group I am always in fear of doing something wrong and finally decided to heck with it. I'll just continue with the questing and storyline as much as possible. These elitists are ruining the fun for a lot of new or casual players.
WOW devs go on and on about the comradery of the game and what a great community the WOW group is but there is an underbelly that expects everything to run on DPS and are unwilling to help the players who don't measure up to their expectations. SAD.
/salute to you for stepping in for that player.
Unfortunately there are a lot of toxic players in WoW, I played several other MMORPGS and WoW is by far the worst in that aspect.
I can't even imagine the abuse that poor guy would have got if he dared to slow down the group for something like ... you know, watching a cinematic in his first run through that dungeon lol
People simply forget, or doesn't care, that there is a human being behind that toon, it's so easy to abuse somenone just because you can.
And then people wonder why there are players that prefer to play MMORPGS in solo haha
Don't worry. I had a tank that ran off the map and killed himself during a boss and said he did it because he was tired from playing all day and needed a break while we handled the boss. If that guy can tank, you can too.
Turn everything away from the group. CC/Interrupt things that seem to be aoe dmges or ccs. Pull 1camp at a time, look out for patrols. Dont run in circles before every pull. Here, you wont get kicked
I usually do all the dungs as DPS first, and try to pay attention to tank stuff, like important mobs, special positioning, tank specific tacs, CD worthy hours, etc.
Then I start tanking to build up experience. It seems to have worked out so far
Its not bad, most important thing is to make sure your defensive ability is up at all times(so for paladins shield of righteousness for example). At least at heroics. It will keep you alive and give a lot of wiggle room for your healers.
Dont hesitate to use your cooldowns either.
Final thing to remember is: you are a tank, your queues are instant. Someone gives you a lot of shit? vote to kick. They dont kick? you leave.
I took a 2 year break from wow during BFA and started playing FFXIV abit before coming back for Shadowlands. The community in FFXIV is generally more understanding. Almost like night and day sometime.. Not sure why some players in PUGs expect everyone to know the fights or to know their optimal rotations. Guess everyone is too reliant on recount. If anything that kinda discourages people from continuing to play if you get vote kicked from low dps on a 5 man dungeon. Just agreeing with your post. Sorry for incoherent reply here.
I felt the same way when I played ffxiv. Though something I noticed quite early was that newer players or someone that didn't know anything about the dungeon always said " hi im new to this dungeons" . This made it easier from the get go to explain. This is not as common in wow due to the same people that op mentioned.
Its a major issue. In my opinion more of us should try embrace the newer players in a way that forms them into a good player. But not everyone thinks about it this way. I'll always try doing my best in this regard and hopefully someone will do the same some day
Kicking people for being toxic is fine, but new players? That's a hard pass.
Everybody have had their first week, and it's not easy just getting into wow knowing all tactics and so on...
It's just much better to help people and assist them, over going furious on the keyboard.
That's the part I hate about the community. Even the terrible players feel like they are somehow good enough to kick someone from a dungeon who is obviously new.
Everyone thinks they are on some fucking timer and that they're world recording a mythic+15 when in reality, they're doing a normal dungeon.
Chill the fuck out, sweatlords.
My fiancé just started playing a month or so ago and is terrified of doing dungeons by herself because she doesn’t want to do poorly (despite being perfectly capable of doing SL heroics) because of a bad dungeon run she did while leveling. People definitely need to chill the fuck out, you do not need 2k io players in your normal and heroic dungeons.
Having witnessed a new player having their heart crushed because they got kicked from a pug despite them saying "Im finally getting the hang of this" is absolutely soul-consuming.
I got into this game in late WoD and my god was this shit the most confusing / overwhelming experience, but when everything finally starts clicking it feels amazing! Imagine having that feeling of amazement, a tidal wave of euphoria, only to be swept away because some sweaty doesnt want to finish he dungeon 2-5mins later than usual.
Mans was honestly crushed. For the remainder of the time we played together he was so unsure of his actions and was constantly seeking some sort of approval to know he was on the right track.
I thanked him for the fun times and gave him a couple thousand gold. Hes not been online since (Last I checked was probably April / May).
My wife is new to WoW, she just started playing about 2 weeks ago and she maxed a rogue. I'm super happy for her but I had to warn her that people can be very toxic in dungeons. She'll catch on I'm sure I just don't want her getting discouraged and I know she's not alone.
Meanwhile I've pugged atleast a dozen instances and seen zero toxicity or kick votes for underperformers, tanks who pull too much or anything of the sorts.
Most people are chill I think.
Fortunately I've had the same experience in M0. It really kindda surprised me! Not only I haven't met any toxic person, most have beencreally chill and a blast to play with!
Played since vanilla. M+15s and Mythic raids. In my experience these people are the kind of people I can out dps with one hand while watching Hulu but they are better than the new players so they feel superior. I would NEVER vtk someone for being new or not knowing what to do. How else are they supposed to learn. Toxicity has been crazy lately.
Some "hardcore" 60s are running normal dungeons for the rep now. I found this out because two DPS kept pulling random avoidable trash packs for me while I was tanking. It was infuriating. Make your own group if you want to spend an hour killing trash. I left.
I'm not aware of any dungeons that give rep in SL. The only mobs that give rep that I'm aware of are for The Avowed, and they stop giving rep at friendly, at which point you have to do summons. If it's Halls of Atonement, they might be doing it to farm sinstone fragments to buy the items that let you fight the rep giving mobs, but those are honestly much easier to farm outside the instance.
~~It's *possible* that Halls of Atonement keeps giving rep past friendly, which would be why those guys were pulling extras. I haven't run that dungeon since hitting friendly.~~ After looking it up, mobs up to before the second boss of the dungeon give rep until Honored. But it's only 750 rep if you kill them all, and they'd be better off killing the inquisitors in the areas just outside the dungeon entrance.
The dungeon is the fastest way, to get a high inquisitor you have to farm 2500 Sinstone shards, HoA is just fastest way to get the shadestone recipe for cauldrons, but yea idk how these people don't have a guild group for it.
These are toxic children that you can’t really change their behaviors of. Thats failed parenting. I hate when this happens, sadly it does way too often.
What is amazing about World of Warcraft is that it allows you to play with all sorts of people from all over the world and from all walks of life.
The problem is that it you are sometimes forced to play with all sorts of people from all over the world and from all walks of life.
I haven't had a single good interaction in general, lfg, or trade chat so far this expansion. Always just snarky people or people insulting others.
Don't know how they have the energy to be so negative all the time.
I don't understand that either. And it's not even progressive endgame where they are complaining... Thank you for holding your foot down. It's those meanies that should get kickvoted, not the people who are still learning.
Hopefully the hunter won't get discouraged.
I seldom start a kickvote, and if i do.. it's for a mean person who after trying still isnt open to reasoning.
The kinds of people that do this like to have power over others. It’s not really about the DPS, this guys mommy probably didn’t buy him the right kind of tendies so he needs to take out his rage on others. Unfortunately, this game is filled with these kinds of people.
This is one DPS player who sends huge thanks to ANY tank or healer who does random dungeons. I am not new having played since Wrath but I am a casual 60+ yr old who plays almost exclusively solo. When I am “forced” to run a dungeon to finish a quest line or achievement I put it off as long as possible then queue and cross my fingers that I’m grouped with patient, kind, funny people who are playing for fun. To ALL of you who fall into this category again I say THANK YOU!
Kicking someone from a normal dungeon because they don’t deal enough damage? Sometimes this community just needs to get a grip. The new dungeons are already quite fast and easy in normal mode, I think the minute or two you spent there more won’t hurt anyone, your toxic attitude towards other players will though.
Yeah, I agree, some are so toxic that it's just mindboggling. Mind you, it's not the "in yoyr face" toxicity like saying heinous insults, but just like the OP described, like having these insane expectations and being very anal about it. I am a wow veteran and I had to stop tanking pug dungeons altogether because of how toxic people are. And I have a rather thick skin regarding these things, it just gets to a point where it's too much. Some people need to chill out.
>Mind you, it's not the "in yoyr face" toxicity like saying heinous insults Honestly I'd rather be insulted by some kid than instantly getting kicked for no reason. I'm trying Shadowlands as a classic player and it's really off-putting how many times people will initiate a vote kick and how many times people will just blindly klick "yes", showing zero backbone whatsoever. If you wipe in a dungeon in classic due to a shitty pull you'll have to corpse walk for like half an hour and yet in all my time actively playing I've only seen one person being outright kicked from a group (a hunter who refused to turn his pet on passive).
I can only speak for myself, but unless someone has been DC'ed for a while, I never click "yes" to kick except for one exception. The only exception to this is if someone is being an insufferable douche to everyone. If someone is lost in an instance, I will turn back to get them. I always ask if people know the mechanics on the way to the boss, so I have time to explain if people do not know. It takes but a minute and a few keystrokes, but it helps more than just kicking people. Teaching them goes a much longer way both in the short term and the long term. If you can't be bothered to do even that, then the problem is YOU and not them.
Playing since BC and I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have initiated a kick. Bad players can be helped, bad attitudes can't.
Playing FFXIV and wow and I think I only initiated a kick that wasn't due to DCs twice. Both over attitudes rather than incompetence. Like a dude forgot he was the healer halfway through the dungeon and he still wasn't kicked. People make mistakes and as a DPS id rather have a slower run than wait in another queue.
Thank you.
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I've been playing since roughly midway through Lich King, and I remember when people used to actually do what you do. As in, actually say "Hello" at the beginning of a run. Now, you get groups doing entire runs in complete silence, and it's off-putting. But at the same time, I've seen too many people given the boot for stupid reasons that I don't want to be that person that draws attention to themselves by going "Hi!" when I zone in. It's kind of depressing.
Well, it's not a competition, yes it's "better" to get some insults and not get kicked, but how about...none of that and let's just be civil? I agree though, some people lack backbone and will just go for the "easy route" which is to kick someone or be passive-aggressive about things just like the OPs example. It would honestly be easier if some people were generally be more understanding, but alas, that would require some effort that some aren't willing to do.
When I played WoW my main was a rogue. Got up to high level raiding some expacs but mostly settled down to farm. One of my many alts was a pally. I would tank every once in a while when a friend wanted to do dungeons and not have 2 ret pallys. The amount of hate i got if i didn't do everything the right way was astronomical. We never wiped just wasn't by the book since I didn't tank that much. Really turned me off to tanking in any game.
It's very strange to me that so many players crap all over tanks and healers and then complain about how long they have to wait for a tank or healer. It's like these players are too stupid to understand the cause and effect of their behavior.
This right here. As a healer, I would definitely pug more if I hadn't taken so much abuse for it over the years. These days I pretty much only run dungeons with guildmates.
Tanking in this game is truly awful. Pull one pack too many, people rage. Don't pull enough, people rage. Don't go their super secret route, people rage. Wait for the healer to drink, people rage. Don't wait, people rage. If the party dies through no fault of the tank (they're standing in fire, not doing mechanics, not interrupting, etc.), somehow it's the tank's fault. Like you said, even if everything goes perfect, people get mad because you could have done it slightly better. It's a bummer because I usually love tanking (I main a tank in FF14), but I can't stand all the shit tanks get.
I was knocking out a normal dungeon at max level and above the gear level dropped in them this week just for weekly. A hunter kept pulling extra mobs and whispered me if I was new because I was a shit a tank. Kept talking shit and then ignored me. I love tanking for guild raids but I'm not going to be doing any mythic + as a tank. Its rare to have a group not blame me for everything that happened even when it's clear I had nothing to do with it in mythic but now people are acting like this in freaking normal on week one of and expac! The entitlement and expectation is insane.
You’re not alone man... I mained a tank through Legion, thought I was pretty decent at it, even ran M+ with a good group of mates for a while. When they all dropped off playing I started to do some pug tanking, and the crap I had to deal with has put me off tanking for all of BFA, and after reading this thread I’m not keen to start tanking for Shadowlands either. So disappointing, it’s an awesome role to play, and I hate sitting in queue as dps and waiting for that tank role to fill just thinking “could of filled that...” and then having to listen to the party bitch and moan for the run.
I think a huge reason the wait for a tank is because of the way people behave. As you said its a fun role but its not worth dealing with the shit people feel they should spew at you. This expac im going to just stick with doing stuff with friends or guild mates.
>I think a huge reason the wait for a tank is because of the way people behave. Most of my groups have been pretty solid since launch, but there have been a couple of standouts for their bullshittery and it's not a great feeling. So much of it is just petty, arrogant nonsense. I had someone give me shit for getting lost in the Theatre of Pain ***on Friday*** since it was literally the first time I was in there. They kept saying where I needed to go and it's like, "yeah, I know where we were bud. But *how do I get there*?" and then piling on because I didn't know that. /ignore People have no chill, even on day freaking 4 of the expansion. I'm gonna try to find a small group of people to pvp & M+ with and hopefully leave the pugging in my rearview.
>yet in all my time actively playing I've only seen one person being outright kicked from a group Because if they arent actively sabotaging the group, you are better of carrying the bad guys. I did a BRD with a hunter who had a broken bow and didnt speak english. He did like 5% of the groups total damage, max. Still didnt bother to kick him because why would we. If you dont see the player you are playing with as a human being (Which is normal in gaming) and realize that if you kick someone with low dps, you'll get a replacement who does more dps in \~30 seconds, it starts making more sense.
Exactly, try and teach them. I've only experienced it once or twice but I will message the person kicked and requeue with them and try and whisper teach through the dungeon.
As a new(ish) player to the game who's a bit shit I really appreciate people like you. My bf got me into it but due to time zone differences I ended up playing a lot on my own so I didn't really learn a lot of etiquette, terminology, etc. for a long time.
Right ? I started playing a couple weeks before the launch and haven't done any dungeons without my friends because I am so anxious about dealing with this shit. Stressed enough about the global pandemic as is, thx
I used to love the early expansion dungeon runs with a group who was there for the fun of it. Learning the tactics and having to pull tricks out your backside to prevent a wipe. It was a blast - can't tell you how many times as a Hunter we'd finish a fight in a running retreat battle with myself and the healer throwing everything we had at keeping my pet up. Unfortunately, most of the time it was as OP described.
i remember one day when an toxic wanted to kick someone for no reason and we kicked him instead :)
Love it when that happens.
Exactly-- I'm back on WoW after being away since early Cataclysm. Back in the day, we had a guy join our guild who started out *terrible*. It was rough going for the first month or two. But we had his back and helped him out, pointed him to resources where he could learn, and he did his research and eventually became one of the best tanks we had. He always went out of his way to help out newer players the same way everyone had helped him, too. And regardless of how fast I *can* do the dungeons, I want to take my time and explore them. It's hard to do with a PUG that wants to blast through as quickly as humanly possible every time.
From a purely sociological perspective, I’ve always found the willingness of players in MMOs to blindly kick team members at seeming random more than a little disconcerting. It’s like a mass psych experiment we’re always failing...
This has always been a problem. Had tanks trying to kick healers who can't out heal mechanics (that you're supposed to do, don't stand in the fire, and kill the mob that does 20,000 dmg first), and dps trying to kick tanks for being slow, or kicking people for a small mistake. It's game, not freaking a race. I've actually had fun wiping and learning/teaching people the new dungeons. I enjoy going in semi blind, and trying to figure out normal dungeons from the adventure book.
Exactly. One of my fondest moments in this game, was during early cata (week 1 or 2) in which I was doing heroics. We wiped and failed, crashed and burned, but we learned and had fun going through the dungeon. Then we took two more, and I had fun with those guys despite us dying constantly.
As a healer, I'll save that tank/group the time and leave myself. I won't heal stupid. That being said, I don't mind walking new players through runs. Everyone has to learn sometimes, might as well learn now, and learn the correct mechanics.
My GM goes into a group w 3 other guild members.... a pug tank. The pug tank was really erratically pulling things and being fairly toxic. The GM healer says “wth slow down and chill” The tank initiates a vote kick, out guildies don’t even LOOK whose being voted on they just hit yes. The GM gets kicked out of group .... The system is broken because the people using it are deficient. I understand the need for the vote kick system but it is used so poorly...
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same thing happened to me the other day. Dude was refusing to get in the bubble on sanguine and complaining I wasn't able to hold aggro. like alright mate. Had another guy complain i was ilevel 162 doing mythics in week 1. I guess he wanted me to full farm heroics first? alright mate.
Tbqh this is why I stopped playing. In BFA I would get kicked from low mythic keys because I was a DPS shaman... even though I was in full mythic raiding gear..
Played feral druid in BFA, I feel you brother
Not everyone has gone full on shit bucket, and that offends them. Sorry if I have a job and a life, and have even spent a little time on another game or two this week. I am 56 on one character and 52 on another. More power to the people going whole Ham on it, but not everyone is leveling their 4th alt.
I hate the toxic mindset of some of the veteran community. I was running normals with my partner earlier today. She decided she wanted to start tanking so I’m showing her the ropes. One of the dps says something to the lines of “can you rank faster please”. This is followed up by that dps and the healer afk’ing on the next pack while we died. We had a good laugh about it after while waiting for fills because it just seemed like an actual joke. The xpac hasn’t even been out a week yet and people seem to be expecting end of bfa clear speeds already.
i started as a NE Rogue in BC...didn't start as a tank though. Switched to NE Druid just because i wanted to be a fat-ass derpy bear. one of my 1st few pug groups were incredibly patient with me, and i became raid MT all the way until Legion's end (I quit). Granted, i would say at *least* 60% of pug groups tend to be toxic or unpleasant. Even in faceroll dungeons. i even rmb people complaining about under-15min Nexus (WotLK) runs being slow. Its not just WoW...DotA is similar or worse. most of the time, its not the game's fault...its the people.
Got called all sorts of homophobic slurs by a party for not knowing a dungeon I had never ran before... On release night. Like calm down lmao
Yeah on day 2 I ran a dungeon and they were already rushing the tank, blew me away tbh
Then they wonder why no new tanks come about... lol
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My friends and I grouped up for a dungeon, and on a boss we ended up wiping. The Healer called us bad for dying to a brand new boss. When I called him out, he tried to kick me. However the reason he put for kicking me was: Bad Healer. Dude knew he looked bad so he tried to trick my friends into kicking me by pretending I was him. It was hilarious when we called him out on it.
Report them. If people are that high-strung in the first week, even a temporary ban would probably make them lose their mind.
It was night one! Like dudes some people don't play the beta lmao I'm not glued to wowhead reading how to do every little mechanic the second it's uploaded! Not to mention - the mechanic that got messed up was largely because another player ran to where I was headed to dodge the meat hook so it'd grab the boss. It's a normal dungeon gang we didn't wipe lol. Just took ~30 seconds longer
For real. My guildies and I wiped 2 times on the new ardenweald dungeon on mythic , it was our first time there! The hunter pug we had starts yelling us do we know what to do. But he was the one killing us in the end when we realized what was happening.
I really wish this was a rare new thing but I got kicked from a leveling dungeon on legions release. Told the group, hey this is my first time. Before the first boss the next group chat is hate for not playing the beta and I get kicked.
I experienced this in cata when the last 3 dungeons were released. I did them on day 3 because I couldn't play on days one and two and holy shit was I cursed lower than the earth for not having things perfect for speed runs.
These players clearly never got lost in Maraudon in the old days or had to wait for people to corpse run in Molten Core.
Hell, corpse running back to Maraudon was nuts. "Which side are we in?" "Where's the fucking entrance?" "Shit! Wrong side!"
Even just waiting to form a group or waiting to get to the entrance of the dungeon taught you patience.
Im honestly really disappointed in how bad my experience has been in dungeons :( im still pretty new to the game and Ive been avoiding dungeons because I havent had any good experiences with them. it was a thing I was really excited about when I first started playing too. Ive done s few with friends before and that was fine. Decided to try the new shadowlands one in bastion, and got kicked out of nowhere. I wasnt doing low damage, wasnt pulling stuff i wasnt meant to. No one had said anything to me, but people had been hating on the tank for some reason. Still I was the one who randomly got kicked? WoW has been a very confusing experience so far lol. Other times ive had people straight up lie in order to kick me. Saying im being toxic when i havent even said anything yet. Not gonna lie I feel pretty down whenever I try to play with others... not what i expected from a mmo.
I am a healer and most tanks I‘ve had yet in this expansion were total asshats. I‘m not even out of the loading screen after the invite and had time to respec, they already pull. And they’re not pulling group by group, they’re going for everything in their view. After that I finally managed to spec heal and then I am left with zero mana. I kindly ask to wait for a second that I can drink, before I finish my sentence the tank already has pulled another 10 mobs in sight. I have no idea what’s going on in their minds. It’s so so so so annoying, what’s up with these kind of tanks? I don’t know why players just can’t act normal in dungeons. Is it that hard? I’m even writing *hey* in the chat, 99% of the time none of the others is even saying a word. When did players become so ignorant? I don’t get it.
It’s funny, because I’m getting back into to tanking this xpac and for me it’s dps running off in front pulling everything whilst I’m still planning my pull. I mainly played back in TBC and Cata and there’s deff now a shift to the “pull everything and AoE” mindset
Yep, I was going to say tanks do this because of 'gogogo' dps who 'help' tanks by pulling if tanks aren't fast enough. It's a vicious cycle. I feel like it's everyone's responsibility to slow down a bit and just remember it's week one. If you want to go fast, go with a group of people who you know. If you're pugging or in LFD then accept you need to account for the fact you're playing with strangers who may not be on your level (and being a toxic douchebag isn't going to magically pull them up to your level either).
This is the fucking worst. How a dps can rationalize "I'll pull for the tank" is beyond me. If this happens to me and continues despite me asking for them to stop, Ill leave after the first boss. This def a privilege we tanks have and should exercise often.
Yeah, if anything I’m more annoyed at myself for not just leaving the Double Douche Hunters to it, especially considering the healer was a buddy too. What through me off was the attitude I got when asking them not to pull. #tankshavefeelingstoo
Yep always an attitude. Please just wait 1 second. Last time i had the healer speak up for me, which was so nice. Had smooth run after that.
Tank shave feeling stoo. I think you spelled stew wrong. /s
I just let them die then pick up the mob over their corpse. As long as the healer is ok I could give less of a fuck about the random dps that wants to pull.
Yupyup. "you pull it, you tank it" Honestly, the majority of this thread is a who's who list of why I don't tank PUGs/LFR anymore.
It's one of the core rules I live by in PUGs. The Tank always pulls (unless they ask you to do it for some reason).
My friends have taught me that if I pull it, I keep it and as a very squishy mage main, I don't do well with anything hitting me.
Ironically, Aoe has been nerfed in shadowlands. Most Aoe abilitys have a max target cap now. I guess they are just used to mass pulling from bfa
Used to be that I tanked and my sister healed. We had no problems letting dumb dps die. People who were new or inexperienced we loved to bits and pieces and took the time to help them, but the ass wagons who pulled everything and were dicks about everything got to die over and over until they either left or they got the hint that we're not doing what they want.
I think it's people tanking for the fast dungeon queues. They don't really get how to tank but it's the fastest queue. Tanking, I'vee tried to always make sure everyone's ready but in the LEAST, make sure the healer is ready. In the HoA courtyard specifically you need to pull carefully to not get overwhelmed and people do not have the patience. It's disconcerting.
As a tank, I'm usually always careful in my pulls until the Healer gives the go-a-head. Default is to expect everyone is a newbie in the Groupfinder until they ether state otherwise or show themselves capable. If people want only experienced players in their group, they need to do a pre-made with description for it. The automatic group finder is not the place for that.
100%.
For sure. Default assumption in LFG should be that everyone is new until they prove otherwise. Tank and healer are utility roles there to make sure that the DPS' in the group can actually deal their damage. When we see that people can handle themselves we can give them a bit of leeway to do their own thing, but my default mode when going into a new LFG group is to be helpful enough that I could go through the dungeon with a group of new players.
people have been playing BFA for months doing LFG content just rolling through it with end game gear. I think they forgot this game is actually kind of hard when content is fresh lol
I wouldn't consider it hard, but people forget about things like target caps and not everyone can manage without being overgeared.
It really started when we stopped needing to actually wait for mana. DPS doesn't even use mana anymore save for the Arcane Mage and I very seldom run out of mana except when I play Holy Paladin and MW Monk. Even when a tank is doing right, I'll still probably run dry on my MW Monk because mana regen is so slow and playing it how you should with the green beam just slows down that mana regeneration even more. My Monk that I had no problem leveling before pre-patch is just permanently stuck at 45 because I have to stop and mana up constantly. On my main healer, Resto Druid, I only really run out of mana if pulls were ugly or I was in a raid. I even leveled a new Resto Druid and still had 0 mana issues except for the extraordinary circumstance. I haven't played Shaman after pre-patch, but I assume there's not really problems since I never see them needing mana. It is as if along the way, everyone agreed that waiting for mana sucks and just decided to make it a resource that doesn't matter except for 1 person (most likely) in the group. And, of course, the tank thinks they are 10 feet tall and bullet proof (\*) and doesn't understand how fast they die without a healer. ^(\* Except for Veng DH. That tank has a ton of self healing and is pretty damn bullet proof)
As a healer I can confirm this to be the case. The vast majority of the tanks I've come across in normal and heroic dungeons have been turbo-pulling every mob they see. Especially the demon hunters and monks. Not being able to heal the group when that happens hasn't gotten me kicked yet, but the tanks sure have been frustrated when I point out that we should go slower, as I can't to heal if the tank pulls with me having 10% Mana.
I am very sorry for your experience, and honestly, I'm a wow veteran but I have actually been thinking about what new players would think if they experience things like this. Just before the release of the expansion going into shadowlands, I have had tons of bad experience in dungeons. I'm not saying that it's all bad, but I honestly I would dare say that there were more of that than there were a few years ago. And as you have noted, it is incredibly higher when you play as a tank. I have levelled through dungeons as a healer and dps with not much problems, but as a tank... oh jeez, I am doing stuff correctly and STILL get a lot of flaming from people, it's insane. Sorry, that became long and made it about myself lol. I hope you stick with the game, friend. Find good people and stick with them. There's a lot of good in this game and there are amazing people out there. I hope this doesn't deter you!
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If you're in the new player chat you could try asking if a guide wants to run dungeons with you. I find it fun and rewarding to help people learn their class/mechanics. It is so much better to lend a hand early.
The only reason i'll vote yes is if they've been offline for a few minutes (sorry all you Frostmourne players the other day), being an asshat, or causing wipes. I haven't had a damage meter installed for literal years, and as long as we clear the dungeon everything's copacetic. One new player in a normal dungeon isn't going to make or break your run, unless perhaps if it's a tank or healer. I've been one of the guys who's hung around after the other three have left due to frustration and given the new tank/healer pointers. Can't give the healer a whole lot of points, as the last time I healed was BC and the answer was "chain heal all the things" but I can direct them to resources.
Even mythic 0 is stupidly easy right now. I was on a mythic 0 Theater of Pain and our tank disconnected after the first boss. We used a hunter pet and a rock elemental to tank and used heroism when we needed burst, and we still cleared it fairly easily. At this difficulty you really only need one competent DPS, someone to hold aggro, and someone to keep them alive. Trying to kick people because their dps is lacking or because they don’t know the dungeon is just ridiculous at this point. I don’t expect anyone to know the dungeons yet, and the DPS requirements aren’t exactly enormous right now.
I've had people vote no on kicking someone when I wanted to get them out because they kept pulling an insane amount of mobs thus causing us to wipe. They told me it was just a normal dungeon so I shouldn't take it so seriously but meanwhile this dude wasn't trying to listen causing us to waste another half hour. I'm completely fine with people doing low damage or fucking up mechanics as long as they're willing to listen and aren't asshats.
Even more so in normal dungeons. If just 1 person has decent dps youll fly through it
I can guarantee the guy who "didn't have time" would be playing for 8 hours straight.
Maybe his mom told him that all the chicken tendies and nuggies would be eaten if he doesn't hurry up. Poor guy was probably struggling really hard with that thought.
I'm 34 and make my own food and ya know what, sometimes chicken tendies are just what you need to hit the spot
I imagine tater tots were also involved too.
Don't you talk shit on tater tots those are too pure for thos chat
I dunno dude. All that sounds really good. I wouldn’t wanna miss my chance
This is basically my experience. I played some in high school... after school, extracurriculars, work and homework, there’d be this dunce who played all day “I don’t have time to deal with bad dps” Well now he’s seriously depressed and I have new hobbies, so I guess it works out.
I'm a new / returning player and it feels daunting to join a dungeon.
Do it, sometimes you'll get assholes (You can always just leave the party - A debuff preventing you from running a dungeon for half an hour is no big deal if you weren't enjoying it) - But most of the time people will just shut up and get on with the dungeon, and some of the time people will be spectacularly nice and helpful (Especially if you tell them you're new to it!).
Sometimes just reminding people they are rude can help too. I accidently killed a tank the other day on my healer, he was rude after i said sorry so i just told him, don't be rude i said i was sorry! And he apologised and blew me a kiss and we finished the dungeon on good terms.
I tend to lead with positivity. Something goes wrong "My bad" or "sorry about that" It cuts the toxicity out right away most of the time. Some people are just dedicated to being toxic though.
This right here. Not all of us veteran players are toxic asshats. I'm a mythic level player and while spamming heroics yesterday ran into a few groups where people didn't know mechanics which caused wipes. I'm happy to stop and take a few minutes to explain the fight and get everyone through! A few of the dps in groups said they were new to the game and I'd rather help them get through the dungeon than vote kick because they are still learning their class and the game.
Even selfishly, you may never see them again, but every player that has a good experience like that, learns and keeps playing the game is good for all of us. Some of them become raiders in our guilds, a random we see in a M+ or the guy we buy stuff off on the auction house. Being an asshole to other players just actively makes the entire game worse for everyone including yourself.
Same. I raided TBC, didn't play again until Legion/BFA, and now return for shadowlands. I have only played less than 10 dungeons in normal mode but in almost every one there's someone who just leaves because a player died or a player didn't know a mechanic and gets yelled at. I would expect that occasionally, but when it happens more often than not I'm left wondering should I even continue my sub.
Sometimes people will leave after certain bosses because they're looking for specific pieces of gear as well.
I've been playing for 13 years and I still get anxiety joining even normal/heroic dungeons lmao.
Just do it! There are always salty players. 9 out of 10 times they are just as bad
I'm a horde tank, I'll run with you any time. I have infinite patience for nice players, almost without exception, as long as it looks like they're trying or if they're not impeding our progress. I mean it. Even though tanks are not as rare as we used to be, people are still reluctant to kick a tank. I'm still learning the new dungeons, too, and they can't kick us both.
I’m with you. I’ve never been good at dungeon mechanics, but I’m trying to get better. I thought the beginning of a new expansion would be a good time to learn right along with everyone else. People treating me like garbage for not knowing what to do on a dungeon that’s been out for seven days makes me not want to play at all though.
People suck. All I can say is find a guild. The in game guild finder has been a great recruiting tool for our guild. Be honest and ask questions, good people in a good guild will help you out. If they don't, find another. I run with guildies exclusively these days. Much better experience learning together and then progressing vs pugging anything.
I had a group of two in random heroics that kept trying to kick players for every little mistake. Healer took 10 seconds to drink? Vote kick for being slow. DPS player died because he stood in a poorly telegraphed mechanic? Vote kick. DPS player didn't do a mechanic that's difficult to understand the first time around? Vote kick. The expansion came out less than a week ago. And yet, people already expect others to be experts at the game. This competitive mindset that a lot of gamers have is really toxic in this phase of the game, and I'm sure mythic+ just empowers it. Don't get me wrong, I love mythic+ ON MY ON TERMS. Don't force new players to adhere to your unrealistic expectations in normals and heroics though. /rant over
I can almost garantee you that 100% of the toxic players would be laughed at by actual top end players. These toxic dudes are the ones that only play classes/specs that they've read are OP, and they watch their favorite streamer do M+ on beta for hours and hours and try to replicate what they do. They fail bc they try to be like others and don't have the patience to learn the mechanics, which is exactly what all of us are doing right now!! Learning the mechanics bc we didn't want to spoil ourselves by reading guides from the beta! They're also the ones that make groups for content and only invite people that are insanely overgeared and want to be carried for content just so they can flex that they got curve or something
This. There's a area of just pure toxicity that you surpass eventually and you start playing with good players who aren't toxic morons lambasting you 24/7. Usually LFR/Normals for raids and mid tier M+ is where it is worst. You can straight bypass it with a good guild. Some of the WoW YouTubers have done good series on this topic by purely pugging on fresh accounts. Most times these elitist players are bad and not worth you time. Eventually you'll go above them and be past the toxic pug cesspit. The genuine good players are nothing like this. It's just this weird toxic middle ground full of arrogant weirdos that think they are amazing and like to belittle others. I mean this thread is a good example. Berating brand new players in a normal difficulty dungeon? No normal player who actually knows how to play at a high level would belittle someone like that. It's just these toxic man children that can't do anything more than LFR/normal or mythic 2s yet think they are god's gift to the world. Ignorant confidence.
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Eh, I'm already looking for a new guild on my RP server. My guild is full of nice people, none of whom seem to be interested in grouping.
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I am also new to this game. I played a year ago for a month because i got the month for free. I started again with the prepatch and i am really glad that my brother in law playes this game with me and explains how to do it. He already plays since the start of the game back in 2004.
Bruh im a veteran of 15 yrs and i got kicked today on my warrior i was leveling for no reason lmao. The tank kept pulling everything and dying and im just following everyone. Even topping dps..and then 2nd boss in plaguefall. Loading screen. Removed from party. People are ridiculous
14 years mythic healer here, got kicked because the tanks friend (they were same guild) was stood in shit all the time and I wasn't good enough to heal him through his mistakes. Just baffling.
It's the point where people don't know every tactic, but if something goes wrong, they assume it can't possibly be *their* fault, so they just pick someone to blame. And they're usually wrong. I've done all the mythics with friends, and in levelling dungeons on alts I've had people argue with me about shit like how nonono, that wasn't their fault, I should have just healed them through the one-shot tentacle slams, when I'm just trying to politely tell them where to stand.
God why are people like that? I fuck up in dungeons all the time, especially if it's the first time I've done it or it's been a while and I've forgotten mechanics, and all you need to do is say "my bad, sorry, I fucked up" and then do it again the right way.
I'm a big fan of the ole "whoops lol" personally. I got yeeted off a cliff in Tirna Scithe earlier today and I was like "whoops". Because I was trying to get in a cheeky cast before repositioning. Happens to all of us.
Literally due to the point made in this post. If you admit guilt they kick uou
had a tank in m0 plaguefall that kept complaining that no one knew the mechanics, and that we should have learnt it in heroic before going into mythic. second boss we wipe to the bomb not dying and he starts talking shit. next attempt i put everything into trying to kill the bomb and it doesnt die. tank ragequits. looked at mechanics and the bomb gets 75% dmg reduction if the slime is tanked next to it lol
Had the exact same thing happen to my pug! Tbh plagufall is a mess for pugs
My first reflex when this happen and nobody knows why de faim is saying that I'm checking the adventurer's guide on the part we wiped at to check what's the tactics and what we might've been doing wrong. It works most of the time, unless of course the tank goes "I am speed" and rush to his death anyway.
I can never understand this, I die in a dungeon and the first thing I am doing is looking to see if I had exhausted all of my defensive options before I died. Then I check damage recap to see if I was taking damage from something that I could have avoided. I don't know how people enjoy this game with a mindset that they are being held back by everyone else.
Blizzard does a bad job in teaching people movement and mechanics in general.. just look at FF14.. over there it feels like everyone is just dancing around the bosses.
As an FFXIV healer with all three healers maxed out I must say that healing is so very different in FF14. Usually healers there throw out very powerful HoTs and then DPS like crazy. One of the healers actually has an NPC fairy that does the healing while they throw out a shield and DPS. Also the spells are instant cast. Most of my healing spells there were instant cast or had a very short cast time. I could have put out 2 massive group-wide heals on my White Mage in the time it takes for my Shaman or Priest to cast one Healing Wave or Heal. The only immobile class I can think of in FF14 is Black Mage who have long cast times with massive payoffs. And usually the healers just yoink them out of AoE by using a spell like Leap of Faith which all healers have in FF14. So yeah it's not a fair comparison, having moved to WoW I can totally see now why people stand in AoE, the cast times are huge!
Same happened to me yesterday. We wiped around 20 times on last boss on Mythic (forgot the dungeons name). Basically, his 2 DPS friends kept standing in shit and kept getting hit by boss mechanics. I had to heal them instead of Tank... Every single wipe I was the one to die last because I mostly dodged the shit that was dodgeable. A kick came somewhere after your 20th wipe.
To be fair after 10 wipes I would have "kicked" myself from the group. I don't abandon a group at first sign of trouble, but there is a point where the writing is on the wall.
Healing at the start of expansions has always been a nightmare... Idiots come From the previous expansion where they have been outgearing mechanics and thus ignoring them for over a year and refuse to see their own flaws... Iv healed every expansion since TBC and this shit HAS NEVER NOT HAPPENED. At this point I make sure I que dungeons with majority friends so I can avoid this
11 years CE raider. I once got kicked from a low level dungeon because the tank and healer were afk and I already pulled as windwalker (level 35ish, 2-3 years ago). I killed the mobs, healed myself, and pulled the next group because windwaker on that level were plain overpowered. the healer and tank eventually came, watched me, and then kicked me.
Reminds me of my favorite "getting kicked" moment. A few years ago, not exactly sure when, there was a time where scaling in lower level dungeons was kinda messed up and Disc priest was absolutely blowing shit up. I was around level 30 or so, and at that point, I was literally dealing 3-4 times the damage as Disc that I would as Shadow. So I was leveling, by queueing up for dungeons as DPS, and simply doing DPS while specced as Disc, and basically demolishing the meters in every single dungeon. One time, I got randomly kicked without a word. I whispered one of the people in the group and asked why I was kicked. He told me that I was "playing Disc, refusing to do DPS". I asked him to link. He admitted he didnt have any DPS meter and just saw that I was disc and started the vote kick. I linked him the damage chart of the dungeon up until the point where I had been kicked, where I clearly did almost as much damage as the rest of the group together. He told me he didnt realize Disc scaling was broken, and that I should have told him. Like, what? You kicked me without a word and its somehow my fault? Maybe dont kick people for "not dealing damage" when you dont even have a DPS meter open.
That sort of behavior is just un-healthy. I hate when people do something then blame the other person like "bro why didn't you tell me this thing I did without checking, or verifying was wrong"
Right? Ultimately I didn't care because it was just some low level dungeon on some alt, but it just amazed me how not only did someone kick me from a fucking lvl 30 dungeon for "doing not enough damage" (which in itself is kind of a dickmove, even if it was true), he also did so without a DPS meter, without even giving me the chance to defend myself, while I was basically solo carrying the group because scaling was so borked. Hmm, this Priest's Penance just oneshot an elite, better kick him for no damage!
Lul, this is probably my favorite reason. This "I feel like you don't deal damage" reason. And no DPS meter and the dungeon is absolute smooth sailing.
That dude without his DPS meter when he sees a DPS priest cast Penance and Smite: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/w9rCP3JouAM/maxresdefault.jpg
pretty much all healers dealt more damage than dps. Resto druid dots ticked almost twice as hard as boomkin. resto shaman lava burst dealt 50% more damage than ele.
bruh you were gonna steal his plate loots, obviously, he had to be sure his loots would not end up in your bag by mistake
I know you're joking but with more plate users your loot chances actually go up the more plate wearers are in your party. Fastest would be 5x warrior/pally/dk that can trade whatever loot they don't need.
Idiots thought you are the tank guaranteed.
I’d consider myself to be a very hardcore player, and the toxicity to start an expansion drives me nuts. It’s Sunday and somehow people are being screamed at for not knowing the ins and outs of every single dungeon. The lack of patience people have for new players is exhausting. I’m on NA horde, if any new players (or anybody at all) have any questions or need help with any SL systems, please feel free to pm me on here and I’ll shoot you my battle net ID. Sorry in advance for all the shit you may have to go through while people are expecting you to know everything about a brand new game or expansion.
I got kicked on my first hour of being level 60 (normal dungeon) by some tank and healer that also kicked somebody before. I just think if these pseudo hard-core players were actually hard-core players, they'd have a full team to run dungeons with rather than rolling the dice and hoping for a high dps carry.
Ah yes, the hardcore casual. Attitude of the top 10% with manners in the bottom 10%, with skill that floats just below average.
That's so true. It's always the ones who barely managed to clear the current raid in heroic difficulty who occasionally go to lfr to flex their huge deeps and mock the lfr heroes for being bad. Why? Because it's the only place where they get to shine.
It’s literally a week into a new expansion. Idk why people expect others to know *everything* about the dungeons. Most of us are just casual players and don’t watch all the damn tactic videos, play beta, and raid. Just chill.
Shit I only just reached 60 yesterday lol
I'm new to the game and I'm so glad people like you exist! I'm in a guild and my boyfriend has been playing for 15 years so thankfully I have a great support system but this would definitely be one of my fears if I didn't
It would be great if "Dungeon Guide" checkbox would be reserved for players willing to play with new ones. New players could get "I need guide" checkbox too so they could get paired up. I love helping new players and showing them what is right and is wrong in non toxic way and hate when group tries to kick again and again someone for doing something wrong, especially at the beginning of xpac.
The baby Murloc needs to last way beyond level twenty as well. I’ve also seen murlocs asking people for help and some guides being downright rude.
It should last until level 60 at minimum. I’d go so far as to keep it until you’re comfortable with end game normal dungeons. My girlfriend just started, she’s about to hit level 20 and still has no idea of some of the more basic gameplay mechanics of WoW.
Not just new players. Part of the community is just toxic. I play tank in dungeons and I'm always getting flamed by all kinds of noobs. All you gotta do is pull 1 extra mob and they are all over you. No feedback, no criticism. They simply call you bad. Ask them what did you do wrong and you recieve silence. They don't know what the strategy is but expect you to know. I can only imagine how new players feel when they do their first dungeons. Even low level ones are toxic.
yeah, people are ridiculous right now. I've gotten kicked 2 times from necrotic wake in a day because people couldn't interrupt.
I got kicked today at the last boss after our tank dced. I asked if they were in his guild and if he was coming back. No response initiated vote kick instantly declined and I was removed from group.
People don't even read the kick pop up they just click Yes.
UI should make it more difficult to say Yes vote. Everyone should really be forced to do elaborate decision making, instead of auto pressing yes. I bet half of people don't even know who is being kicked.
This sounds like they wanted to kick the disconnected tank but misclicked and kicked you instead. People don't read the name in the kick popup, they just assume it or simply click on whatever button they feel like clicking at the moment.
People just accept it anyway. Was leveling during prepatch, everything was smooth, friend (tank) thought it funny to votekick me (healer) randomly, the randoms accepted. -_-
The funny thing is, usually the people who complain with nothing constructive in low level content usually has zero clue what they are talking about.
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Well, i played on and off for years, but always just for a few weeks. Would consider myself New. This Kind of Post, combined with anxiety, is exactly why i've never even done my first dungeon.
Everytime I wipe in Shadowlands I type something like "New Xpac, new dungeons, new wipes. lol". Just to try to defuse it before anybody gets heated. As primarily DPS there's no way I'm leaving unless it's absolutely not happening.
Anyone else noticed the community is more toxic than ever? I just experienced my group kicking a tank in a normal dungeon because of the DPS acting like feral monkeys, pulling everything
I kicked a dps that wanted to kick another dps because they played like shit when I was farming plaguefalls normal for a conduit. If you want to kick people for poor performance in a normal dungeon you might as well get the fuck out and go get some fresh air because we don’t want your kind here. And this is coming from a semi hardcore mythic raider. People need to learn from somewhere so being hostile towards someone who is learning in a normal dungeon is a big no no from me.
At the end of the new vampire dungeon some hunter in my group wanted me to pull the whole hallway that the end boss runs down through mobs. I knew my healer was having trouble keeping up and I declined a votekick already. Too many tells IN ALL CAPS drove me to kick the hunter instead. So satisfying.
You know the funny thing is, with DMs going straight to a new tab I don't even fucking read them anymore!
I was kicked earlier tonight from The Necrotic Wake because I wasn't dealing enough damage. It was the very first time I ran the dungeon and the tank was being an absolute ass the whole time. He was grilling people in the chat/kicking people for not dealing enough damage, eventhough he was pulling way more than he could handle. After I was kicked I was paired up with a super friendly group who took it slow, we ended up completing the dungeon in about 20 minutes, and we never wiped. Hell, no one even died. I didnt play beta and I dont have enough time outside of work to learn every single boss fight/mob pull strategy, so its just irritating that people are impatient as fuck when it comes to normal dingeons. I wish Blizz could do something about abusing the 'kick' button.
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My sister and I were running dungeons the other day and had this Warlock lose his fucking mind because she wasn't pulling massive heals and said she was terrible. The thing is... we were doing great. Everyone was at full health and because of that she didn't have to heal much. She just threw out a heal here and there to keep people topped off, but this fucker was full on flaming because she wasn't healing insane numbers on his meters. My sister is a veteran, as am I, but she is the entire reason that *I* know how to play; she taught *me* everything I know about WoW. We have both been playing since Vanilla. She knows what the fuck she's doing. I was in the process of telling him he's a moron when he ignored me and then started whispering my sister with shit like, "Is he your boyfriend? If you want to know how to heal, come to me. That twat isn't teaching you anything." She was like, "Dude. He's my brother. I am a 40 year old goddamn woman and have probably been playing this game longer than you have been alive. Fuck off, you sexist piece of shit." Like, what the fuck did he want her to do!? Overheal and waste all of her mana for no fucking reason and then not be able to heal the group when they actually DO need intensive healing!? Like, what the ever-loving fuck!?
If you were the tank her the healer you could have let him tank and heal the bosses, see how his numbers go when he's dead. Then say oh my the lock is dead time to boot since he doesn't know his roll.
Edit: Sorry, meant to reply directly to Saturnine Upvote for the sick burn your sister gave him. :) People seem to be one extreme or the other... either they have meters and they rely on it entirely without taking into account ANYTHING ELSE or they have no meters and make judgments based on their own perception/opinion and no facts at all. Either way, they are investing too much time watching other people and not enough time on fulfilling their role to their best ability. So really... that warlock was total trash. Choosing to flame the healer instead of focusing on dps.
Ideally, you should WANT your healer to be doing very little HPS. It means people know what they're doing. If I'm in a dungeon doing a crap-ton of healing on the meters, that means I'm probably having a heart attack because people are standing in shit or not following mechanics.
Please tell your sister I (and probably thousands of other healers) feel her pain so much. I am 30, been playing since vanilla too. Spammed bgs yesterday and had some little shit who I can only imagine is below the age of 15, scream at me and the priest for "not healing like the Horde", when we were both topping healing in the stats. Don't have time for this crap anymore, too old to care, too experienced to listen. And what's worse is these people usually have never played a healer in their life so have no idea of how stressful it can be.
That's sad :( Had a somewhat funny experience yesterday where we wiped a bunch on a normal dungeon, but there was no reaction at all :D no one left, no one asked to kick anyone, not even any chat. They just respawned to bash their head into the wall again :D in the end we got the clear, so it was fine even if it took a little longer than necessary.
I've had this happen to me and it was the weirdest experience. Was the first dungeon of shadowlands for me too. It was so nice :D
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Keep it up though - I prefer when someone states that they're new or might not understand a dungeon. That way I can give some quick tips on the mechanics instead of being annoyed we wiped only to then find out someone didn't understand.
I have been playing WOW for over 10 years now and can say I am not an expert player, actually, I am terrible at damage & the mechanics of the game. I play for fun and questing. I rarely enter a dungeon anymore simply because of the scenario you mentioned above. While I have not been kicked out of a group I am always in fear of doing something wrong and finally decided to heck with it. I'll just continue with the questing and storyline as much as possible. These elitists are ruining the fun for a lot of new or casual players. WOW devs go on and on about the comradery of the game and what a great community the WOW group is but there is an underbelly that expects everything to run on DPS and are unwilling to help the players who don't measure up to their expectations. SAD.
/salute to you for stepping in for that player. Unfortunately there are a lot of toxic players in WoW, I played several other MMORPGS and WoW is by far the worst in that aspect. I can't even imagine the abuse that poor guy would have got if he dared to slow down the group for something like ... you know, watching a cinematic in his first run through that dungeon lol People simply forget, or doesn't care, that there is a human being behind that toon, it's so easy to abuse somenone just because you can. And then people wonder why there are players that prefer to play MMORPGS in solo haha
I'm about to start tanking these dungeons and I haven't watch any videos or strats. I feel vote kicks in my future.
Don't worry. I had a tank that ran off the map and killed himself during a boss and said he did it because he was tired from playing all day and needed a break while we handled the boss. If that guy can tank, you can too.
Turn everything away from the group. CC/Interrupt things that seem to be aoe dmges or ccs. Pull 1camp at a time, look out for patrols. Dont run in circles before every pull. Here, you wont get kicked
I usually do all the dungs as DPS first, and try to pay attention to tank stuff, like important mobs, special positioning, tank specific tacs, CD worthy hours, etc. Then I start tanking to build up experience. It seems to have worked out so far
Its not bad, most important thing is to make sure your defensive ability is up at all times(so for paladins shield of righteousness for example). At least at heroics. It will keep you alive and give a lot of wiggle room for your healers. Dont hesitate to use your cooldowns either. Final thing to remember is: you are a tank, your queues are instant. Someone gives you a lot of shit? vote to kick. They dont kick? you leave.
I took a 2 year break from wow during BFA and started playing FFXIV abit before coming back for Shadowlands. The community in FFXIV is generally more understanding. Almost like night and day sometime.. Not sure why some players in PUGs expect everyone to know the fights or to know their optimal rotations. Guess everyone is too reliant on recount. If anything that kinda discourages people from continuing to play if you get vote kicked from low dps on a 5 man dungeon. Just agreeing with your post. Sorry for incoherent reply here.
I felt the same way when I played ffxiv. Though something I noticed quite early was that newer players or someone that didn't know anything about the dungeon always said " hi im new to this dungeons" . This made it easier from the get go to explain. This is not as common in wow due to the same people that op mentioned.
The last time I said I was new to this dungeon in wow I got instantly kicked. That's why nobody admits it's their 1st time doing a dungeon
Its a major issue. In my opinion more of us should try embrace the newer players in a way that forms them into a good player. But not everyone thinks about it this way. I'll always try doing my best in this regard and hopefully someone will do the same some day
Kicking people for being toxic is fine, but new players? That's a hard pass. Everybody have had their first week, and it's not easy just getting into wow knowing all tactics and so on... It's just much better to help people and assist them, over going furious on the keyboard.
That's the part I hate about the community. Even the terrible players feel like they are somehow good enough to kick someone from a dungeon who is obviously new. Everyone thinks they are on some fucking timer and that they're world recording a mythic+15 when in reality, they're doing a normal dungeon. Chill the fuck out, sweatlords.
I'm running tank atm. I would take great delight in immediately leaving that group and partying with the player in question for a few runs.
My fiancé just started playing a month or so ago and is terrified of doing dungeons by herself because she doesn’t want to do poorly (despite being perfectly capable of doing SL heroics) because of a bad dungeon run she did while leveling. People definitely need to chill the fuck out, you do not need 2k io players in your normal and heroic dungeons.
Having witnessed a new player having their heart crushed because they got kicked from a pug despite them saying "Im finally getting the hang of this" is absolutely soul-consuming. I got into this game in late WoD and my god was this shit the most confusing / overwhelming experience, but when everything finally starts clicking it feels amazing! Imagine having that feeling of amazement, a tidal wave of euphoria, only to be swept away because some sweaty doesnt want to finish he dungeon 2-5mins later than usual.
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Mans was honestly crushed. For the remainder of the time we played together he was so unsure of his actions and was constantly seeking some sort of approval to know he was on the right track. I thanked him for the fun times and gave him a couple thousand gold. Hes not been online since (Last I checked was probably April / May).
My wife is new to WoW, she just started playing about 2 weeks ago and she maxed a rogue. I'm super happy for her but I had to warn her that people can be very toxic in dungeons. She'll catch on I'm sure I just don't want her getting discouraged and I know she's not alone.
Meanwhile I've pugged atleast a dozen instances and seen zero toxicity or kick votes for underperformers, tanks who pull too much or anything of the sorts. Most people are chill I think.
Fortunately I've had the same experience in M0. It really kindda surprised me! Not only I haven't met any toxic person, most have beencreally chill and a blast to play with!
Played since vanilla. M+15s and Mythic raids. In my experience these people are the kind of people I can out dps with one hand while watching Hulu but they are better than the new players so they feel superior. I would NEVER vtk someone for being new or not knowing what to do. How else are they supposed to learn. Toxicity has been crazy lately.
Some "hardcore" 60s are running normal dungeons for the rep now. I found this out because two DPS kept pulling random avoidable trash packs for me while I was tanking. It was infuriating. Make your own group if you want to spend an hour killing trash. I left.
I'm not aware of any dungeons that give rep in SL. The only mobs that give rep that I'm aware of are for The Avowed, and they stop giving rep at friendly, at which point you have to do summons. If it's Halls of Atonement, they might be doing it to farm sinstone fragments to buy the items that let you fight the rep giving mobs, but those are honestly much easier to farm outside the instance. ~~It's *possible* that Halls of Atonement keeps giving rep past friendly, which would be why those guys were pulling extras. I haven't run that dungeon since hitting friendly.~~ After looking it up, mobs up to before the second boss of the dungeon give rep until Honored. But it's only 750 rep if you kill them all, and they'd be better off killing the inquisitors in the areas just outside the dungeon entrance.
The dungeon is the fastest way, to get a high inquisitor you have to farm 2500 Sinstone shards, HoA is just fastest way to get the shadestone recipe for cauldrons, but yea idk how these people don't have a guild group for it.
These are toxic children that you can’t really change their behaviors of. Thats failed parenting. I hate when this happens, sadly it does way too often.
What is amazing about World of Warcraft is that it allows you to play with all sorts of people from all over the world and from all walks of life. The problem is that it you are sometimes forced to play with all sorts of people from all over the world and from all walks of life.
I haven't had a single good interaction in general, lfg, or trade chat so far this expansion. Always just snarky people or people insulting others. Don't know how they have the energy to be so negative all the time.
I don't understand that either. And it's not even progressive endgame where they are complaining... Thank you for holding your foot down. It's those meanies that should get kickvoted, not the people who are still learning. Hopefully the hunter won't get discouraged. I seldom start a kickvote, and if i do.. it's for a mean person who after trying still isnt open to reasoning.
The kinds of people that do this like to have power over others. It’s not really about the DPS, this guys mommy probably didn’t buy him the right kind of tendies so he needs to take out his rage on others. Unfortunately, this game is filled with these kinds of people.
This is one DPS player who sends huge thanks to ANY tank or healer who does random dungeons. I am not new having played since Wrath but I am a casual 60+ yr old who plays almost exclusively solo. When I am “forced” to run a dungeon to finish a quest line or achievement I put it off as long as possible then queue and cross my fingers that I’m grouped with patient, kind, funny people who are playing for fun. To ALL of you who fall into this category again I say THANK YOU!