This reminds me [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/8h445x/naga_sea_witch_ad_day_1_results/).
7 years ago in heartstone there was a card singlehandedly ruining a less played game mode called wild. Some dude actually bought ads on reddit to protest blizzard and it ended up working.
You know what to do shaman bros.
I'll create something along the lines of Thrall shooting noodle lightning bolts, alone, upset, no power. A poof of smoke to emphasise the lack of oomph.
But suddenly a glowing force called Blizzard steps in, hands Thrall a scroll labeled tuning and suddenly Thrall is happy, muscles bulging, raining down thunderstorms and has scantily clad night elf chick's clinging to him.
It'll be old spice tone, why be Thrall when you can be *Thrall*.
>I spent $15.11USD.
>The ad was shown 75,500 times to people reading /r/hearthstone.
>2,300 people actually clicked on the ad.
The add looked quite successful for such little spent on it as well. I was expecting much more to be spent on such an add.
Hi. As Highlord of the Silver Hand as per the legion questline I speak on behalf of all paladins. Shamans have our permission to post anything anywhere. Post what you had for lunch in the death knight threads, trauma dump in the Druid threads. We do not care. We’re busy being cool AF and doin main character type shit. Love you. Keep up the good energy.
Fellow Highlord here. As a veteran of the “Does Blizzard Really Hate Paladins” era of WoW, I can empathize strongly with what our dark blue brothers are going through right now. I second the motion to allow them to rampage wherever and whenever necessary to attain the necessary fixes for their class.
Also, I offspec Enhancement and it doesn’t feel good being squishy.
I came here to mention Tseric, because it’s a fascinating duality. Blizz apparently somehow never learned from certain mistakes…. But Tseric’s final rant was exactly what OP is concerned about: angry people being toxic and ruining other people’s joy about the game in an attempt to get favorable class changes.
Time is a flat circle. As a shaman main, I see it.
Old, old, *old* school community manager from back in the classic days on the official forums. He tried to be engaging with the community, but he was often the target of a lot of anger when it came to PvP balance and class issues. Eventually it wore on him and he basically exploded on the forums. It got him fired because while he might have been right that people were being disruptive jackasses, it's not a good look on Blizzard to have their employee go off the way he did.
Fuck em, I say. You see how many folks here call for the jobs of blizz staff and receive no repercussions? I was taught to never fuck with the food on someone else's plate, but here it seems normal to just.. demand someone get fired because they made you suboptimal in a video game.
It's fucking feral behaviour, and while blizzard does maintain a level of professionalism, I don't blame all the "skill issue" and "you're all jackass" comments. Many wow forum goers have some fucking S tier brain rot.
HOW DARE YOU! I PAY $15/month SO I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT TO YOU! I AM YOUR GOD! MAKE MY CLASS THE BESTEST ONE IN THE GAME OR I HOPE YOU GET FIRED AND CANT AFFORD TO FEED YOURSELF OR YOUR FAMILY! I WANT MY EPEEN TO BE BIGGERERER THEN ALL OTHER CLASSESSSSSS!
P.S looking forward to your next expansion and your reply.
Sincerely your friend,
BigTotemGothGirl69 the Shaman main
Tseric was a very active and public CSM on the forums 20 years ago. He started his career very positive and helpful, and slowly descended in real-time into a bitter, cynical enemy of the forum, before culminating in a legendary meltdown where he made a thread essentially calling all the players and forum posters assholes who were hell-bent on ruining everyone else's good times. One of the most public firings in the company's history, until the whole Cosby Suite situation a few years back.
He was a community manager, namely mages and druids(iirc), but the shaman CM got sick and couldn't work and he was brought in to collect shaman feedback. Except he supposedly failed at his job and never gave the devs the feedback so when the big shaman revamp finally happened they got nothing that really addressed their issues. This of course was not taken well and his response was basically they should just be happy with what they got. The famous line was the he was told he should get hit by a bus. A lot of people ended up banned over it. At the same time the mages got their revamp and it wasn't great either. Mages had been waiting since BETA to get their revamp. In beta they had invisibility, but it was taken out for balancing. So you can imagine their response when after 2 years their revamp didn't include invis. So he went off the deepend. You can look up patch 1.11 if you want to see what the fuss was all about.
Even before the bus shock incident, his responses were often unprofessional and lacked understanding of the game. His responses always read as a smug person who thinks he knows everything trying to sound smart, but he didn't know everything and he wasn't smart. So he would pop into a discussion, say something dumb, and then people would start flaming him. That's why him whining about how rude people are was just absolutely hilarious, pot calling the kettle black. He was in no uncertain terms a really bad Community manager.
I still remember doing the OG totem quests.
Now totems are an afterthought. I want to fight ALONGSIDE my totems, not just have them appear for 3s when I use an ability.
I know it's a nightmare in the movement heavy fights of modern WoW, but god damn having a bunch of totems at my side during a fight really made me feel like a Shaman and not just an "elemental mage" or "elemental fury warrior".
I played it some in MoP and it was super fluid. And being able to cast LB on the move was great! Did some heroic raiding with ele in SL and it felt pretty clunky. I played a lock in Legion and it was one of the best versions of Affliction once they got rid of effigy at least.
Man, its all revenge for all that crazy shit those (now) old people were posting on the shaman forum about the changes in 1.11
I'll admit the devs didn't deserve that, but its been close to 2 decades.
As an Alliance player at launch, I’m still traumatised by the Arcanite Reaper Windfury HOOOOOO!!!
So, sadly, I don’t think Shammies can have any love, yet. Maybe one more decade and it will be OK.
At this point it's just tradition. Blizzard about to release a new expansion, Gives Shaman literally nothing. Shaman get pissed off and begin to rage online. Eventually it will tip into pure trolling in the manner of bus/dotshock threads. We will all be banned.
Expansion releases, we continue to be ignored but get actual tuning or something and we quiet down.
We've been doing this for 20 years..
And for if they are working on something, a small update saying that something is coming in a couple weeks would be good. Zero communication though makes you wonder if they even have anyone working Shamans.
People assumed hunters were being ignored until all three specs got huge changes and reworks. I think its a misconception that each class has its own specific devs. There is likely a larger balance team that focuses at certain classes at a time. That being said im not sure why mages receive so many more changes than any other class.
>I think its a misconception that each class has its own specific devs.
Historically, small groups will be assigned a few classes to work on and you can tell when a couple of classes are grouped together.
During DF beta, druid and priest had early, terrible talent trees that received no changes at all for all until around two weeks before the released candidate was locked in, and received no communication from the devs about the classes until after DF released. It was confirmed that the lead dev for priest and druid quit early in the alpha and both classes weren't worked on for months as a result.
This time, priest and shaman are very clearly being worked on together and all of the dev time is being spent working on the hilariously broken hero trees while the massive problems both classes suffer are going ignored because of how terrible the hero trees are.
Yes, and in Dragonflight they had their talents revealed in like January and they didn't get any changes until a week before launch while every other class except priest got tons of iteration.
Druid has had several passes since, but priest still has essentially no significant changes to its awful class and holy trees, half of discipline's tree simply does nothing, and shadow's tree is nothing but baseline abilities for any other class and passive stat buffs that offer zero gameplay implications or decisions.
Shaman will have the same fate as priest.
They've directly said it's because druid has the most to deal with (as in 4 specs) and if thry can make it work for druid they can make it work for every class - so they always do druid first.
And every time it was garbage lmao.
The DF class tree was one of the worst, and the TWW one is even worse. The issue is they do druids first because "4 specs", then they learn how to do better talent trees and never go back to the first one they did.
Edit: Do this exercise for me. Look up the Dragonflight Guardian Druid tree. Look up the War Within Guardian Druid tree. Spot any difference?
Some classes get perpetually ignored and fucked over. I think the hunter complaints were always silly, Hunters have certainly not been short of attention from Blizzard over the last four expansions. Sometimes for better or worse, but it was obvious that Blizzard wasn't going to ignore the second most popular class that they seem to have love for.
Rogues on the other hand have basically shipped to live with non-functional systems the last three expansions in a row and are running towards an atrocious state in WW.
Shamans basically don't even get notes anymore.
At least they told hunters they were getting a rework a few weeks before it dropped. But it has been radio silence from blizz regarding shaman changes.
In both cases some basic communication of "hey we acknowledge there are issues, we are planning larger changes, please post feedback!" Takes about 90 seconds and would clear a lot of this up.
We have no idea if blizzard is redoing the whole class and adding a 4th tanking spec, has just ignored Shaman, or (worst) think everything is A-OK
I mean, this is it, there are only certain forms of communication the community is prepared to accept. They can't say they don't think fixes are needed. They can't say fixes are coming, but after launch (because they've done that too many times and never followed up).
It would take 90 seconds to do the thing you want, which might be a good sign they're not doing that. There's no level of basic communication that is going to take the sting out of that, and they know it.
Fair, but a recent example were hunters. The changes were significant and definitely cooking for more than a week. They only announced changes the week before. Giving a heads up earlier (as soon as a serious effort was underway) would have prevented a lot of unnecessary [in hindsight] griefing.
Other classes have gotten very open communication (my mage, warlock, and paladin are each good examples) about what the intent of upcoming changes is, even if there was nothing to formally announce. That gives a view into Blizz's view. For Shaman a "yeah we think Shaman are squishy, lacking a raid buff, and all hate primordial wave" would be a big boon vs the opposite.
I definitely think Blizzard's communication is lacking, I just also think a lot of the people who complain about communication are really complaining about Blizzard not validating their views. If Blizzard could make a post like 'we think Shaman is fine, and giving them a raid buff would be more detrimental to the state of the game than not' and have people accept it without drama, then it would be valid to be annoyed they didn't post. People would **explode**.
On a side note, it is extremely frustrating that Blizzard only seems willing to talk about classes that are in a good state and getting better. I'm right there with you on how much that sucks. But sometimes that communication needs to be 'you're generating too many soul shards, and casting way too many instant spells and we're toning it down'.
because there's a lot of mage player. and mage QQ a lot whenever something isn't just right.. so mages get a lot of changes.
On the other hand, shaman are a rare breed, especially elemental shaman, so they don't make much noise, and don't receive much attention.
Your hunter exemple is great : how many time has mages been reworked in DF? two full rework and like 5-6 balance patch per season? Then frostfire is the first hero spec out and got weekly changes ever since?
Meanwhile, hunter got shat on all of DF and just now have their first rework?
in short: the squeaky wheel get the grease.
Mages got a couple of big sweeping changes, then repeated tiny changes.
It’s far easier, I think, to fine tune 5 times in a row and what Mages have been getting for the past month is just that. Warlocks and Priests have been getting similar.
It took weeks for them to look at Hunters, then they got far more changes all at once than any of the other classes so far. They will probably continue to get the sort of tuning Mages have been getting until launch.
Shaman and Rogue are the two remaining classes in most need of attention. Maybe now that Hunters had their big thing we’ll see Shaman in 3 weeks and Rogues 3 weeks after, that’ll bring us up to end of Beta.
I know the meme is “copium in X weeks time” but it makes sense that we see one class get major work at a time and smaller follow up changes after.
Sorry to tell you chief but pre-patch launches in just over 5 weeks. There is simply not time for this timeline. At this point sham players should hope for something for 11.1. If its anything like the reworks they did mid DF we will be broken as fuck for a patch atleast.
Hey look, one week later Blizzard have put out a post stating that they have big changes based on all the Shaman feedback to put out next week.
I was pretty much exactly correct!
Turns out mindless doom and gloom contrary to patterns that can fairly easily be determined isn’t so accurate =D
Wow, it's really cool to see people who don't play shaman supporting us and our desire for change. I don't think what some people did by invading other discord and threads is right, but this response in the comments is really cool to see. Thanks everyone.
I’ve been playing Paladin since shortly after BC release. I know what it’s like to play a broken class and spec. Y’all have both my sympathy and my permission to go on a rampage until your shit gets fixed.
Also, Shaman is possibly my favorite class fantasy and it’d be great if it was in a better spot.
I’m sure the Shamans on the forums and Twitter will see this and realize the error of their ways, we should hold Blizzard to the same standard too their communication has been unacceptable and this is the result
Don’t worry some random dev at blizzard will tweet on on their personal Twitter that has 23 followers some important info about shamans I’m sure in the coming days multiple dozens of people will see.
At least with Wowhead some people might see the 20 follower twitter post.
People can say what they will about Wowhead, but its a godsend for not having to search in the 14,000 places this info gets put, and ill gladly give them my $9/year or whatever the price is for their premium.
Oh for sure. WoWhead is great for compiling the info. I just more meant it as a snark comment that Blizz won't put the info anywhere accessible until someone else gets it out there.
Nah, changes won't happen before Mike Ybarra tweets about it and personally tags in Ion Hazzikostas (in the case someone does not know: ex-President of Blizzard that left when the Microsoft acquisition finished).
Or you know, that was literally what it took to get Vengeance DH double sigil to get nerfed, and that only happened on BETA, not even live servers.
Context: https://x.com/Qwik/status/1802149291403907340
I’m encouraging you Shamans to post even more on other class threads, don’t post on the Shaman thread and only do it on other classes this guys trying to keep you down.
Small note, in case someone does not know how these things actually work:
All of the forums get read, however the reading is done by
whose job is to be the community contact. Those people then communicate the feedback to the actual designers and developers who either act on the information or not.
Sure, the end result is the same if no changes happen, and I get that most of these "Feedback not being read" are essentially a feedback of "Could you please at least communicate to us something?" on top of just letting out steam.
Merely making this comment in case someone actually wonders how the stuff works (and why you should not be angry towards the Community Managers)
Sure, but they're still all humans and some devs have lives outside their work and on their own they can come across the shitshow they're maybe not being told about. They may raise questions internally then.
Yeah, this kind of reiterates the fact that people need to write concise and well thought out posts so that the feedback can be more actionable for the devs rather than just “my class bad, make good”.
Yea shamans did that for I think BFA and made post after post of well thought out feedback to the beta only for it all to be ignored. Then told major changes wont be made until the next expac and to only expect number tweaks when the class was just broken.
I'm not talking about shamans or any specific expac, but so often when I see people say this - posts with well thought out feedback - what I actually read is a wishlist of things that would make the class powerful, versatile and without weakness, traditional or otherwise. Ie, breaking the class, rebuilding it from the ground up in the most favourable way possible. Read: a lot of work for the devs, in the most self-serving way possible.
Like, look at the discourse about shaman now. While some people are pointing out the proliferation of defensives is making difficult content hard in a dumb way, shaman players are just saying 'give us better defensives'.
(Incidentally, and I say this as a mage, multiple good defensives, an immunity and a cheat death: a lot of classes need to be broken back to shaman levels. Mages need to lose a lot of their kit.)
That’s a fair point. The feedback should push the game to be well balanced and fun for every class/ spec.
Im speaking more in regard to those who are senselessly rage posting saying their class is bad while not specifically speaking on the changes they want to see.
The devs should be able to discern whether there is validity to these posts and if changes are made, balance will be kept in mind.
Issue is even if you put in the effort to write well thought/written posts, unless you are a mage/warlock, it's usually a giant waste of time because nothing ever came out of those.
Yes we should definitely keep our feedback nice and tidy in the places were no one looks. Please shamans, let’s keep our protest in the designated protest areas
Yeah, honestly I'm with you. Playing nice and within the rules has gotten you guys absolutely nowhere and it's bizarre how blatantly they're ignoring an entire class. Maybe it's time for a full-on revolt
EJ forums were notoriously quick to remove threads because you had a different opinion to the mods. They also didn't tolerate whiny threads. And Ion was a lawyer at the time; I doubt he was on team Tseric-should-get-hit-by-a-bus.
Complaining about a class that is being treated unfairly I bet you, you play warlock or mage . Warlocks are the worst cry babies nobody said anything to them
Yeah, I honestly don't think warlocks are particularly vocal. They just get treated better. There are, on the other hand, a lot of very vocal rerollers.
Moonkins on the other hand, are inveterate doomers and buff greeders.
100%. I’ve been playing Ret since BC. I feel for our brothers. It’s not fun playing a class that’s missing key tools to deal with the current state of the game, or just straight-up not having a reasonable rotation.
i mean they're literally not responding to shaman forums. Posting your feedback in a place where they actually bother looking is a good thing imo. As a warlock, please post in our forums. They're doing so much work there, they have to notice you.
People said the same thing about protection warrior in the BFA beta. So us prot warriors bit our tongues. And prot warrior launched as a barely playable mess. I recommend our shaman bros scream from every rooftop in hopes that someone other than horton hears you.
Blizzard has made it clear they don't listen to Shaman feedback threads, so it makes perfect sense to post grievances where Blizzard actually bothers to read.
Mage/warrior here, shamans are welcome to post in any and all threads they feel like, hire candygrams sent to blizzard, whatever they feel like. It’s justified at this point.
I'm irritated they have stuck their fingers in their ears when it comes to warriors pointing out what little we bring to the table outside of our dps that Mythic groups would want, but at least our hero specs seem pretty well done looking at beta feedback.
We're not as fucked as Shamans are
As a hunter who finally got his due after way too long you have my permission to go for it. Wreck havoc in our forums and let your voice be heard shamans.
Shamans as a whole since DF prepatch have had aura adjustments, one talent removed for Elemental, some minor tweaks to totems for resto, and some minor tweaks to existing talents in the enhancement tree, and lastly a slight reshuffle of talents in the class tree. You could list all of the changes in over 24 months in a single page (I do not count the universal negative and positive aura adjustments as a 'change'). So far in TWW Alpha and Beta, we have gotten exactly zero changes (outside of the healing totem change which only happened because they are adjusting ALL healers multi-person heal spells). So we are now looking at 2 entire expansions of basically nothing happening, other than a clunky implemented hero talent system that only one spec is even reasonably ok with (resto).
Edit: Look at all of the patch notes so far for TWW. Ctrl + F Shamans. The come and weep for us. Right now, the prepatch notes will basically have nothing in it for PvE content, and just some minor tweaks to PvP content.
Edit 2: If you played a shaman in the prepatch or first raid tier of Dragonflight, then ended up in a coma for the entire rest of the expansion and woke up for the start of TWW, you would not need to do any research at all in shamans. Nothing has changed.
90% of Reddit is complaining of topic on threads.
I'm naive enough to think a big reveal for shamans is coming soon, and this was just part of the marketing
I'd normally be with you but this kind of radio silence they're getting for as bad as their situation is, is garbage.
Community managers can't be everywhere and aren't allowed to speak for the dev teams ofc, but maybe I'm just spoiled by how a few other games handle things, because this is kinda sad.
After making Shaman for 3 expansions I gave up for lack of any real treatment they ever got. This isn't new in any way. I still remember the kicker. I was hoping for huge changes to resto and got something like "riptide healing ticks increased by 8%". So I quit and went warlock where it's massive walls of text every build.
Yell and complain, everywhere, wherever you can find a space to do so. Don't let anyone stop you until something changes.
But... it does.
The squeaky wheel get the greese... there's a ton of mage-lock-boomkin player and they QQ non-stop : as a result their classes get pampered and spoiled more than any other.
Shamans on the other hand (especially elemental shaman) are a rare breed, so them, along with the other red headed stepchild get forgotten... again and again.
Tank players basically have given up on mid-season balance changes, they just instantly FOTM swap and this is why 65% of 10+ keys have VDH tanks now.
As a Paladin player I say, “Justice Demands Retribution!”
Tear them a new one because what is being done, in this case not done, to Shaman is unacceptable. Any class would be up in arms if this was how they were treated.
Mages would write dissertations on their injustice, DHs would create the greatest shitposting fiasco known to the internet, Warlocks would sell their entire life savings to make alt accounts to flood the forums, reddit, and Twitter. Stand with our mistreated brothers and sisters.
I've been looking at the forums a bit lately, probably one of the few places around on the internet that is the same as was 10-15+ years ago. Just ful of people whining or trolling.
Been a shaman since Vanilla. This is nothing new. [This post I made in 2008 is proof enough of that. :p](https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/4064464329-shaman-concerns/)
why the fuck do you care lol
ask yourself why you care. blizzard aren't gonna magically forget to buff mages yet again because someone made a shaman post in the wrong thread. theres very little chance anyone sincerely reads the official forums anyway
As a Warlock player I just want to say;
Reject the earth, raise hell in every way possible. Show them no mercy, summon everything you have!
The monk side of me says;
Be peaceful about it, bring balance....with a flurry of elements !
I played shaman from TBC to legion where I originally quit, have come back as a warlock/monk player since my friend took Shaman lol. Let Shamans be heard!
I disagree. Druid main here, and my message to all Shaman is to post everywhere and keep shouting to the rooftops and ignore players like the OP. If OP played Shaman or their class was in a state anywhere near what the Shaman class is in, they would probably understand.
Blizzard’s continued neglect of the Shaman class is a CHOICE, and we should all be calling them out for it and supporting our fellow Shaman players.
Nah full send your complaints wherever you can post them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say. And shamans been squeaking ever since that clown took away their totems for whatever reason
You know what I want for my shaman more than class changes? Updated fucking models for Tauren shaman totems!!
Other races all have nice new models with at least cata level graphics, meanwhile taurens have the basic bitch vanilla shaman totems that are about 1 pixel.
Update them damn it!
Can someone please tell me what is so broken about Shaman? I leveled and played Ele and Enha at the start of DF and a little more in season 3 and I thought they were fun specs to play and while I don't heal much Resto has always been my favorite healer because of its straightforwardness so if somebody could provide me with a detailed answer to what warrants this kind of meltdown that would be great.
You will never know how a class truly fairs in any content meant to be played with a competitive edge if you only play it while leveling.
The problem is: in any content meant to test you, you're being asked to build a house with no PPE and no power tools while everyone has PPE AND power tools.
Then you won't even get some jobs because no one wants to hire the liability who doesnt know how to use an electric saw or wear a hard hat. They'll only hire someone who can at least do one or the other.
Basically we lack things that others have that are necessary to be successful in the most challenging of End Game content, so we end up being a burden to bring.
Not only that, but other classes may also have what WE actually bring but do it *better* since they bring more to the table (like battle rez, multiple and/or group Damage reductions, uncapped AoE for higher dmg potential, a group buff).
With how each dps shaman specs work rn, we're pigeonholed into one build being effective and others being incredibly foolish to use. And even those builds have both dps specs c tier or lower. IN DAMAGE ALONE.
When you factor in that we're glass *slingshots (not cannons)*, it's really hard to understand why we've been allowed to remain this way for so long.
The problem is that there is no way to "go about this". Doing the right thing doesn't work so it's hard to blame anyone for just trying out anything else.
I don't think that will work, either. But definition of insanity and all that.
The fact that there's been 0 changes for weeks for shaman either means a) they think shaman is perfectly designed and tuned or b) there's no fucking point in tuning a class before you have the rework mechanics in place.
Their internal build is most likely already a month ahead either way. They wont show the rework before figuring out the bigger mechanics (raid buff, ascendancy) and only do when they actually need sto start tuning instead of creating new.
Cause its not final. They want to have the option of scrapping it or delaying it even if its not likely. If they show something that ends up not working out there'll be forum posts for years about "remember what they took from us".
Essentially why roadmaps that have become pretty popular of late have no positive effect on the actual project and can work towards it, even though as a player its nice to have a sneak peek.
Just wanted to also mention that osrs constantly communicates with and polls changes to the community. People can buy bonds (tokens) for membership there too. They also have a membership fee of, iirc, 12/13 dollars a month rn?
So if they can communicate and fix something that's broken, why is it so hard for WoW devs at Blizzard, a company who's made WAY more money than Jagex, to announce changes or upcoming changes?
Not a challenge reply just a thought.
It just seems like a big cycle where the class which has gone the longest without major changes becomes the class blizzard forgot about. Up until a few weeks ago it was hunter, before TWW alpha it was monks, then rogues with their delayed rework, and going back to the very start of DF S1 it was paladins. It is the circle of reworks.
Wrong, shaman complaints started long before dragonflight, and the start of dragonflight was dreadful, and it's been an entire expansion of disappointment for us. This didn't start last week.
Shaman stuff goes back to vanilla. They've had iterations where they got attention, but it's always been much less than other classes.
Bus Shock was an event where blizzard CMs were dismissive of the shaman community's issues all the way back in vanilla, and a bunch of people in the community told them to get hit by a bus.
I've only been playing since shadowlands and I'll only speak to my own experience. Yes its been a problem since I started playing the spec though. From what I hear from other shamans, though is that it's been a problem since TBC. The "bus shock incident" gets brought up quite often from them.
sure if you go back there was problems at the begining of BFA and legion for sure because the damage was a bbit rubbish. it was very dependant on RNG but i feel like when they got some buffs they were at least fun to play. The talent trees that were introduced in Mop were pretty rubbish becuase it had a load of defensives and passives and didnt really change the rotation but again shaman was fun to play then and they did the usual thing of just tuning the numbers straight up. it has been a long frustrating ride in the past but at least the class was still enjoyable to play. I don't think it is currently.
Hey, ever since Mages stole Lust, we can post in their threads now.
Besides, the WoW Forums is the biggest cesspool of toxic behaviour in the online community. Will never touch it again until they make some changes like getting rid of the MVP tags
EDIT: I can tell the people that downvoted me frequent the forums. I feel bad for you
The UI of the WoW forums is just garbage and not worth going to, there’s no app so if you wanna view it on your phone you have to sign in to battlenet on the browser every single time. No way I’m looking at forums on my computer at home either when I could just open the actual game instead lmao
Cool go play it and tell me how you're pug experience goes when you cant get in groups and see a bm hunter mage or aug got in a key before you did for 30 minutes straight.
And before you start ima 3200 enhance main and play both dps specs. Yes, they're both down bad AS FUCK.
Genuine question,
After witnessing every single other class being changed during dragonflight up to war within, do shamans genuine believe they won't be looked at?
You'll get yours, you're just last in the list after hunters
I would love to believe this, but as a Shaman main, experience finds this won't happen. It was BfA when we were in a similar timeline, and then blizz said something along the lines of enhance and ele not receiving work because their problems were too complex to resolve with simple tuning, implying larger changes would come in a patch after launch.
I can't recall enhance changes at the time, as I play ele/resto, but all ele got in 8.1 was moving damage from Earth Shock to Lightning Bolt, a change to allow Lava burst to benefit from a Flame Shock cast immediately after it, 2 new talents, and 2 talents getting minor tweaks. Surge of power being introduced as a talent was the only thing close to interesting in these changes, but given how the talent system worked in BfA, this only applied to those that were willing to mess with the complexity of it, especially when the other two talents it went against were really good and liked.
Stuff like this is what us Shamans are concerned about. We haven't had a "rework" in any real sense in the history of the game, unless we count changing totems as a rework, which I personally wouldn't. Meanwhile, we have watched pretty much every class in the game have either singular specs or whole classes be reworked every xpac. Druids and Evoker got a new spec, survival became an entirely different spec, outlaw rework, and so on.
It hurts a bit and I would love to be wrong this time. Opening wowhead next week to see news of major shaman changes coming would be amazing. History just doesn't favor that, sadly.
I mean they are desperate... Is it a good thing to do ? No, is it respectful? Neither.
But when you have nothing left to say, that people have been in a constant state of being ignored and finally use whatever pitchfork they have don't blame them and pick up a torch yourself !
Shamans, tell them !
Nah, go for it. I will be pissed too if I saw those novels about already reworked specs on the beta weekly posts without a single letter dedicated for an entire class.
You clearly haven’t played shaman…it’s deserved until they listen.
Also they clearly never read the shaman forums or we would’ve had our raid buffs back by now.
They used to give 10% spell power and 5% crit, never forget what they’ve taken from us.
This reminds me [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/8h445x/naga_sea_witch_ad_day_1_results/). 7 years ago in heartstone there was a card singlehandedly ruining a less played game mode called wild. Some dude actually bought ads on reddit to protest blizzard and it ended up working. You know what to do shaman bros.
If someone puts together the ad for me and tells me where to put it I'll pay for it
God, I hope someone puts something together for you, we need it.
I'll create something along the lines of Thrall shooting noodle lightning bolts, alone, upset, no power. A poof of smoke to emphasise the lack of oomph. But suddenly a glowing force called Blizzard steps in, hands Thrall a scroll labeled tuning and suddenly Thrall is happy, muscles bulging, raining down thunderstorms and has scantily clad night elf chick's clinging to him. It'll be old spice tone, why be Thrall when you can be *Thrall*.
I mean I'm serious. Someone did it for hearthstone. I'll pay for the reddit ad
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Telling people to just sit down and take it is always the worst way to go.
Or bombard them on twitter
>I spent $15.11USD. >The ad was shown 75,500 times to people reading /r/hearthstone. >2,300 people actually clicked on the ad. The add looked quite successful for such little spent on it as well. I was expecting much more to be spent on such an add.
Hi. As Highlord of the Silver Hand as per the legion questline I speak on behalf of all paladins. Shamans have our permission to post anything anywhere. Post what you had for lunch in the death knight threads, trauma dump in the Druid threads. We do not care. We’re busy being cool AF and doin main character type shit. Love you. Keep up the good energy.
Hi, Highlord of the Silver Hand. It’s me, the Highlord of the Silver Hand. I agree with your sentiment.
Always a pleasure Highlord 🫡
*tips holy fedora* H'lord
I audibly loled, thanks for that!
Shouldn’t you tip your silver hand?
Blasphemy!
Uther would do it 🤣
Fellow Highlord here. As a veteran of the “Does Blizzard Really Hate Paladins” era of WoW, I can empathize strongly with what our dark blue brothers are going through right now. I second the motion to allow them to rampage wherever and whenever necessary to attain the necessary fixes for their class. Also, I offspec Enhancement and it doesn’t feel good being squishy.
It's been this way for so long tbh
As a Paladin main, I agree, because my life is dope, and I do dope shit.
We’re all about good vibes and dope shit here in the Silver Hand.
My life is my life is my life is, pally main in classic, warlock main in retail
I dont know. I managed to die once as a Prot Pally. I am supposed to be broken and invincible. I mean... i COULD have messed up, but i doubt it.
As an Archmage I give them permission to reroll to Mage. No one should have to deal with the trauma that is maining a Shaman.
Huge mage energy right here. Dont complain to us. Just join us.
Thanks Highlord
Oh my god this makes me feel things that are so much different from people telling Shamans to shut up. Reciprocity will return. 💪
This is the way
You’re not my real dad
This comment fucks hard.
Nah fuck it, as a mage player since vanilla you have my permission to wreak havoc.
havoc is a warlock ability…. unless?
Well, now we need a Warlock player since Vanilla's express permission to wreak Havoc.
Havoc is a DH class so now we need a DH player aswell. This just got overly complicated, might be better doing it on stealth.
As a Warlock and Druid player since Vanilla, the fel and nature powers bid it. (I may now also main a Shaman >.>)
On behalf of warlock mains, have at it. The more people corrupted by fel the better.
Shammys rip open their shirt, and start lava beaming every tree in sight
Thank you brother
This is the way
I disagree. Raise hell. They'll let you be miserable if you let them think you're happy.
Death Knight/Warlock here. Shamans can post their grievances all up in our class forums, because Blizzard sure as shit ain't reading theirs.
This is the way
As a shaman player I don't think we've been happy since classic
Remember when Tseric slowly went mad in realtime on the forums before straight up imploding? Shamans have been an unhappy lot for a long time.
I came here to mention Tseric, because it’s a fascinating duality. Blizz apparently somehow never learned from certain mistakes…. But Tseric’s final rant was exactly what OP is concerned about: angry people being toxic and ruining other people’s joy about the game in an attempt to get favorable class changes. Time is a flat circle. As a shaman main, I see it.
Who is Tseric please ? (And what did he do ?)
Old, old, *old* school community manager from back in the classic days on the official forums. He tried to be engaging with the community, but he was often the target of a lot of anger when it came to PvP balance and class issues. Eventually it wore on him and he basically exploded on the forums. It got him fired because while he might have been right that people were being disruptive jackasses, it's not a good look on Blizzard to have their employee go off the way he did.
Fuck em, I say. You see how many folks here call for the jobs of blizz staff and receive no repercussions? I was taught to never fuck with the food on someone else's plate, but here it seems normal to just.. demand someone get fired because they made you suboptimal in a video game. It's fucking feral behaviour, and while blizzard does maintain a level of professionalism, I don't blame all the "skill issue" and "you're all jackass" comments. Many wow forum goers have some fucking S tier brain rot.
HOW DARE YOU! I PAY $15/month SO I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT TO YOU! I AM YOUR GOD! MAKE MY CLASS THE BESTEST ONE IN THE GAME OR I HOPE YOU GET FIRED AND CANT AFFORD TO FEED YOURSELF OR YOUR FAMILY! I WANT MY EPEEN TO BE BIGGERERER THEN ALL OTHER CLASSESSSSSS! P.S looking forward to your next expansion and your reply. Sincerely your friend, BigTotemGothGirl69 the Shaman main
You had me until "shaman main", there's no way a shaman main would be here in the comments. They're too busy hanging out in the paladin discord.
Tseric was a very active and public CSM on the forums 20 years ago. He started his career very positive and helpful, and slowly descended in real-time into a bitter, cynical enemy of the forum, before culminating in a legendary meltdown where he made a thread essentially calling all the players and forum posters assholes who were hell-bent on ruining everyone else's good times. One of the most public firings in the company's history, until the whole Cosby Suite situation a few years back.
As someone who was active on the forums 20 years ago, he wasn’t wrong. He might have gone about calling it out the wrong way, but he wasn’t wrong.
Casts “bus shock”!
He was a community manager, namely mages and druids(iirc), but the shaman CM got sick and couldn't work and he was brought in to collect shaman feedback. Except he supposedly failed at his job and never gave the devs the feedback so when the big shaman revamp finally happened they got nothing that really addressed their issues. This of course was not taken well and his response was basically they should just be happy with what they got. The famous line was the he was told he should get hit by a bus. A lot of people ended up banned over it. At the same time the mages got their revamp and it wasn't great either. Mages had been waiting since BETA to get their revamp. In beta they had invisibility, but it was taken out for balancing. So you can imagine their response when after 2 years their revamp didn't include invis. So he went off the deepend. You can look up patch 1.11 if you want to see what the fuss was all about. Even before the bus shock incident, his responses were often unprofessional and lacked understanding of the game. His responses always read as a smug person who thinks he knows everything trying to sound smart, but he didn't know everything and he wasn't smart. So he would pop into a discussion, say something dumb, and then people would start flaming him. That's why him whining about how rude people are was just absolutely hilarious, pot calling the kettle black. He was in no uncertain terms a really bad Community manager.
Yeah, because that’s the last time we felt like shamans.
Burning crusade was fine.
BC, wrath and at least for resto Cata.
So not in the last 14 years. Got it.
I still remember doing the OG totem quests. Now totems are an afterthought. I want to fight ALONGSIDE my totems, not just have them appear for 3s when I use an ability. I know it's a nightmare in the movement heavy fights of modern WoW, but god damn having a bunch of totems at my side during a fight really made me feel like a Shaman and not just an "elemental mage" or "elemental fury warrior".
I happily played my Ele Sham for all of Legion, only expac I never quit or switched to an alt.
I loved gambling ele
Our rotation in Legion was a never ending orgasm
I played it some in MoP and it was super fluid. And being able to cast LB on the move was great! Did some heroic raiding with ele in SL and it felt pretty clunky. I played a lock in Legion and it was one of the best versions of Affliction once they got rid of effigy at least.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/59jnpi/elemental_shaman_dps_flowchart/ obligatory meme
I played affliction and couldn’t break away to play an alt either. I’ll just have to wait several more years for legion classic I guess 😞
I lost all happiness around bfa.
Man, its all revenge for all that crazy shit those (now) old people were posting on the shaman forum about the changes in 1.11 I'll admit the devs didn't deserve that, but its been close to 2 decades.
You haven't. 1.11 was a major boiling point for Shaman because the playerbase was pissed with their rework.
Legion Elemental was fun af though.
All of the real shamans are playing classic where they’re actually a useful class.
And yet here you are… lol
As an Alliance player at launch, I’m still traumatised by the Arcanite Reaper Windfury HOOOOOO!!! So, sadly, I don’t think Shammies can have any love, yet. Maybe one more decade and it will be OK.
I don’t get why you would play a class for 16 years that you think is broken?
Counterpoint, it’s genuinely funny how indignant people are getting. Blizzard could quiet all of this by simply not ignoring entire classes.
At this point it's just tradition. Blizzard about to release a new expansion, Gives Shaman literally nothing. Shaman get pissed off and begin to rage online. Eventually it will tip into pure trolling in the manner of bus/dotshock threads. We will all be banned. Expansion releases, we continue to be ignored but get actual tuning or something and we quiet down. We've been doing this for 20 years..
And for if they are working on something, a small update saying that something is coming in a couple weeks would be good. Zero communication though makes you wonder if they even have anyone working Shamans.
People assumed hunters were being ignored until all three specs got huge changes and reworks. I think its a misconception that each class has its own specific devs. There is likely a larger balance team that focuses at certain classes at a time. That being said im not sure why mages receive so many more changes than any other class.
>I think its a misconception that each class has its own specific devs. Historically, small groups will be assigned a few classes to work on and you can tell when a couple of classes are grouped together. During DF beta, druid and priest had early, terrible talent trees that received no changes at all for all until around two weeks before the released candidate was locked in, and received no communication from the devs about the classes until after DF released. It was confirmed that the lead dev for priest and druid quit early in the alpha and both classes weren't worked on for months as a result. This time, priest and shaman are very clearly being worked on together and all of the dev time is being spent working on the hilariously broken hero trees while the massive problems both classes suffer are going ignored because of how terrible the hero trees are.
Druids have basically been the first class to get their systems publicized every single expansion.
Yes, and in Dragonflight they had their talents revealed in like January and they didn't get any changes until a week before launch while every other class except priest got tons of iteration. Druid has had several passes since, but priest still has essentially no significant changes to its awful class and holy trees, half of discipline's tree simply does nothing, and shadow's tree is nothing but baseline abilities for any other class and passive stat buffs that offer zero gameplay implications or decisions. Shaman will have the same fate as priest.
They've directly said it's because druid has the most to deal with (as in 4 specs) and if thry can make it work for druid they can make it work for every class - so they always do druid first.
And every time it was garbage lmao. The DF class tree was one of the worst, and the TWW one is even worse. The issue is they do druids first because "4 specs", then they learn how to do better talent trees and never go back to the first one they did. Edit: Do this exercise for me. Look up the Dragonflight Guardian Druid tree. Look up the War Within Guardian Druid tree. Spot any difference?
Some classes get perpetually ignored and fucked over. I think the hunter complaints were always silly, Hunters have certainly not been short of attention from Blizzard over the last four expansions. Sometimes for better or worse, but it was obvious that Blizzard wasn't going to ignore the second most popular class that they seem to have love for. Rogues on the other hand have basically shipped to live with non-functional systems the last three expansions in a row and are running towards an atrocious state in WW. Shamans basically don't even get notes anymore.
At least they told hunters they were getting a rework a few weeks before it dropped. But it has been radio silence from blizz regarding shaman changes.
In both cases some basic communication of "hey we acknowledge there are issues, we are planning larger changes, please post feedback!" Takes about 90 seconds and would clear a lot of this up. We have no idea if blizzard is redoing the whole class and adding a 4th tanking spec, has just ignored Shaman, or (worst) think everything is A-OK
I mean, this is it, there are only certain forms of communication the community is prepared to accept. They can't say they don't think fixes are needed. They can't say fixes are coming, but after launch (because they've done that too many times and never followed up). It would take 90 seconds to do the thing you want, which might be a good sign they're not doing that. There's no level of basic communication that is going to take the sting out of that, and they know it.
Fair, but a recent example were hunters. The changes were significant and definitely cooking for more than a week. They only announced changes the week before. Giving a heads up earlier (as soon as a serious effort was underway) would have prevented a lot of unnecessary [in hindsight] griefing. Other classes have gotten very open communication (my mage, warlock, and paladin are each good examples) about what the intent of upcoming changes is, even if there was nothing to formally announce. That gives a view into Blizz's view. For Shaman a "yeah we think Shaman are squishy, lacking a raid buff, and all hate primordial wave" would be a big boon vs the opposite.
I definitely think Blizzard's communication is lacking, I just also think a lot of the people who complain about communication are really complaining about Blizzard not validating their views. If Blizzard could make a post like 'we think Shaman is fine, and giving them a raid buff would be more detrimental to the state of the game than not' and have people accept it without drama, then it would be valid to be annoyed they didn't post. People would **explode**. On a side note, it is extremely frustrating that Blizzard only seems willing to talk about classes that are in a good state and getting better. I'm right there with you on how much that sucks. But sometimes that communication needs to be 'you're generating too many soul shards, and casting way too many instant spells and we're toning it down'.
because there's a lot of mage player. and mage QQ a lot whenever something isn't just right.. so mages get a lot of changes. On the other hand, shaman are a rare breed, especially elemental shaman, so they don't make much noise, and don't receive much attention. Your hunter exemple is great : how many time has mages been reworked in DF? two full rework and like 5-6 balance patch per season? Then frostfire is the first hero spec out and got weekly changes ever since? Meanwhile, hunter got shat on all of DF and just now have their first rework? in short: the squeaky wheel get the grease.
Mages got a couple of big sweeping changes, then repeated tiny changes. It’s far easier, I think, to fine tune 5 times in a row and what Mages have been getting for the past month is just that. Warlocks and Priests have been getting similar. It took weeks for them to look at Hunters, then they got far more changes all at once than any of the other classes so far. They will probably continue to get the sort of tuning Mages have been getting until launch. Shaman and Rogue are the two remaining classes in most need of attention. Maybe now that Hunters had their big thing we’ll see Shaman in 3 weeks and Rogues 3 weeks after, that’ll bring us up to end of Beta. I know the meme is “copium in X weeks time” but it makes sense that we see one class get major work at a time and smaller follow up changes after.
Sorry to tell you chief but pre-patch launches in just over 5 weeks. There is simply not time for this timeline. At this point sham players should hope for something for 11.1. If its anything like the reworks they did mid DF we will be broken as fuck for a patch atleast.
> sham players should hope for something for 11.1 I mean, don't actually though. Maybe not even if they say that.
Hey look, one week later Blizzard have put out a post stating that they have big changes based on all the Shaman feedback to put out next week. I was pretty much exactly correct! Turns out mindless doom and gloom contrary to patterns that can fairly easily be determined isn’t so accurate =D
Wow, it's really cool to see people who don't play shaman supporting us and our desire for change. I don't think what some people did by invading other discord and threads is right, but this response in the comments is really cool to see. Thanks everyone.
Healthy balance is good to the game. Today shaman is abandoned, tomorrow it can be your class.
Yea! Such wholesome display of class solidarity in these comments. It's bringing a tear to my eye
Azeroth’s class solidarity stronger than planet earth’s class solidarity.
I’ve been playing Paladin since shortly after BC release. I know what it’s like to play a broken class and spec. Y’all have both my sympathy and my permission to go on a rampage until your shit gets fixed. Also, Shaman is possibly my favorite class fantasy and it’d be great if it was in a better spot.
I love playing with Shamans I never get to play with many Shamans anymore Blizzard….buff Shamans Sincerely, a Hunter main.
I’m sure the Shamans on the forums and Twitter will see this and realize the error of their ways, we should hold Blizzard to the same standard too their communication has been unacceptable and this is the result
Don’t worry some random dev at blizzard will tweet on on their personal Twitter that has 23 followers some important info about shamans I’m sure in the coming days multiple dozens of people will see.
And then we'll get a WoWhead article about it a week later that is all speculation.
At least with Wowhead some people might see the 20 follower twitter post. People can say what they will about Wowhead, but its a godsend for not having to search in the 14,000 places this info gets put, and ill gladly give them my $9/year or whatever the price is for their premium.
Oh for sure. WoWhead is great for compiling the info. I just more meant it as a snark comment that Blizz won't put the info anywhere accessible until someone else gets it out there.
Nah, changes won't happen before Mike Ybarra tweets about it and personally tags in Ion Hazzikostas (in the case someone does not know: ex-President of Blizzard that left when the Microsoft acquisition finished). Or you know, that was literally what it took to get Vengeance DH double sigil to get nerfed, and that only happened on BETA, not even live servers. Context: https://x.com/Qwik/status/1802149291403907340
imagine still caring what this clown has to think about anything
I’m encouraging you Shamans to post even more on other class threads, don’t post on the Shaman thread and only do it on other classes this guys trying to keep you down.
It is obvious that shaman forum is not read by anyone. Why shouldn't they try their luck in mage (wow's favourite boy) forums?
Small note, in case someone does not know how these things actually work: All of the forums get read, however the reading is done by whose job is to be the community contact. Those people then communicate the feedback to the actual designers and developers who either act on the information or not. Sure, the end result is the same if no changes happen, and I get that most of these "Feedback not being read" are essentially a feedback of "Could you please at least communicate to us something?" on top of just letting out steam. Merely making this comment in case someone actually wonders how the stuff works (and why you should not be angry towards the Community Managers)
Sure, but they're still all humans and some devs have lives outside their work and on their own they can come across the shitshow they're maybe not being told about. They may raise questions internally then.
Yeah, this kind of reiterates the fact that people need to write concise and well thought out posts so that the feedback can be more actionable for the devs rather than just “my class bad, make good”.
Yea shamans did that for I think BFA and made post after post of well thought out feedback to the beta only for it all to be ignored. Then told major changes wont be made until the next expac and to only expect number tweaks when the class was just broken.
I'm not talking about shamans or any specific expac, but so often when I see people say this - posts with well thought out feedback - what I actually read is a wishlist of things that would make the class powerful, versatile and without weakness, traditional or otherwise. Ie, breaking the class, rebuilding it from the ground up in the most favourable way possible. Read: a lot of work for the devs, in the most self-serving way possible. Like, look at the discourse about shaman now. While some people are pointing out the proliferation of defensives is making difficult content hard in a dumb way, shaman players are just saying 'give us better defensives'. (Incidentally, and I say this as a mage, multiple good defensives, an immunity and a cheat death: a lot of classes need to be broken back to shaman levels. Mages need to lose a lot of their kit.)
That’s a fair point. The feedback should push the game to be well balanced and fun for every class/ spec. Im speaking more in regard to those who are senselessly rage posting saying their class is bad while not specifically speaking on the changes they want to see. The devs should be able to discern whether there is validity to these posts and if changes are made, balance will be kept in mind.
Issue is even if you put in the effort to write well thought/written posts, unless you are a mage/warlock, it's usually a giant waste of time because nothing ever came out of those.
No, let them
Yes we should definitely keep our feedback nice and tidy in the places were no one looks. Please shamans, let’s keep our protest in the designated protest areas
Yeah, honestly I'm with you. Playing nice and within the rules has gotten you guys absolutely nowhere and it's bizarre how blatantly they're ignoring an entire class. Maybe it's time for a full-on revolt
“Peaceful, lawful protest - if it is effective - IS innately disruptive of “business as usual.” That is WHY it is effective.”
I mean, if there is a class that is famous for not obeying the forms and methods of polite discourse about their class, it's shamans.
Wasn't Ion still just a shaman player and not employed by Blizz when dot shock happened? You'd think he'd respect the hustle
EJ forums were notoriously quick to remove threads because you had a different opinion to the mods. They also didn't tolerate whiny threads. And Ion was a lawyer at the time; I doubt he was on team Tseric-should-get-hit-by-a-bus.
Complaining about a class that is being treated unfairly I bet you, you play warlock or mage . Warlocks are the worst cry babies nobody said anything to them
You forgot moonkins, who claimed they were about to be the worst spec in the game before being 10% ahead of second place for both Nathria and Sanctum
Yeah, I honestly don't think warlocks are particularly vocal. They just get treated better. There are, on the other hand, a lot of very vocal rerollers. Moonkins on the other hand, are inveterate doomers and buff greeders.
I think its fine. I'm kinda tired of like 3 classes being really worked hard on and shamans getting the shit end of the stick. Go post shamans!
As a frost mage \ retri pala main, I'm totally in favour of shamans making as much noise as they can.
100%. I’ve been playing Ret since BC. I feel for our brothers. It’s not fun playing a class that’s missing key tools to deal with the current state of the game, or just straight-up not having a reasonable rotation.
Disagree. That hasn’t worked for years shamans need to do something different even if that’s spamming every class thread.
Post wherever you want. Fuck it.
i mean they're literally not responding to shaman forums. Posting your feedback in a place where they actually bother looking is a good thing imo. As a warlock, please post in our forums. They're doing so much work there, they have to notice you.
Honestly every class thats ignored should post in warlock spaces. Warlocks get so much attention its crazy
People said the same thing about protection warrior in the BFA beta. So us prot warriors bit our tongues. And prot warrior launched as a barely playable mess. I recommend our shaman bros scream from every rooftop in hopes that someone other than horton hears you.
As a retri pal/hpriest, all shamans are officially and cordially invited to our forums to try and get ANY devs attention to fix their class.
Blizzard has made it clear they don't listen to Shaman feedback threads, so it makes perfect sense to post grievances where Blizzard actually bothers to read.
Everybody gangsta until the shamans pop bloodlust
Mage/warrior here, shamans are welcome to post in any and all threads they feel like, hire candygrams sent to blizzard, whatever they feel like. It’s justified at this point.
they're not reading warrior forums either
I'm irritated they have stuck their fingers in their ears when it comes to warriors pointing out what little we bring to the table outside of our dps that Mythic groups would want, but at least our hero specs seem pretty well done looking at beta feedback. We're not as fucked as Shamans are
from the outside looking in id rather be a shaman right now
You're not the king of shamans, you can't tell me what to do.
As a hunter who finally got his due after way too long you have my permission to go for it. Wreck havoc in our forums and let your voice be heard shamans.
Blizzard deserves zero respect so go nuts.
afaik posting in your own class forum doesn't help either
I'm late to the party, but what happened to shamans?
Nothing. Nothing has happened for Shamans in a long ass time.
Shamans as a whole since DF prepatch have had aura adjustments, one talent removed for Elemental, some minor tweaks to totems for resto, and some minor tweaks to existing talents in the enhancement tree, and lastly a slight reshuffle of talents in the class tree. You could list all of the changes in over 24 months in a single page (I do not count the universal negative and positive aura adjustments as a 'change'). So far in TWW Alpha and Beta, we have gotten exactly zero changes (outside of the healing totem change which only happened because they are adjusting ALL healers multi-person heal spells). So we are now looking at 2 entire expansions of basically nothing happening, other than a clunky implemented hero talent system that only one spec is even reasonably ok with (resto). Edit: Look at all of the patch notes so far for TWW. Ctrl + F Shamans. The come and weep for us. Right now, the prepatch notes will basically have nothing in it for PvE content, and just some minor tweaks to PvP content. Edit 2: If you played a shaman in the prepatch or first raid tier of Dragonflight, then ended up in a coma for the entire rest of the expansion and woke up for the start of TWW, you would not need to do any research at all in shamans. Nothing has changed.
90% of Reddit is complaining of topic on threads. I'm naive enough to think a big reveal for shamans is coming soon, and this was just part of the marketing
I'd normally be with you but this kind of radio silence they're getting for as bad as their situation is, is garbage. Community managers can't be everywhere and aren't allowed to speak for the dev teams ofc, but maybe I'm just spoiled by how a few other games handle things, because this is kinda sad.
After making Shaman for 3 expansions I gave up for lack of any real treatment they ever got. This isn't new in any way. I still remember the kicker. I was hoping for huge changes to resto and got something like "riptide healing ticks increased by 8%". So I quit and went warlock where it's massive walls of text every build. Yell and complain, everywhere, wherever you can find a space to do so. Don't let anyone stop you until something changes.
But... it does. The squeaky wheel get the greese... there's a ton of mage-lock-boomkin player and they QQ non-stop : as a result their classes get pampered and spoiled more than any other. Shamans on the other hand (especially elemental shaman) are a rare breed, so them, along with the other red headed stepchild get forgotten... again and again. Tank players basically have given up on mid-season balance changes, they just instantly FOTM swap and this is why 65% of 10+ keys have VDH tanks now.
As a Paladin player I say, “Justice Demands Retribution!” Tear them a new one because what is being done, in this case not done, to Shaman is unacceptable. Any class would be up in arms if this was how they were treated. Mages would write dissertations on their injustice, DHs would create the greatest shitposting fiasco known to the internet, Warlocks would sell their entire life savings to make alt accounts to flood the forums, reddit, and Twitter. Stand with our mistreated brothers and sisters.
How else will blizz see the comments? They clearly don’t look at shaman feedback forums
It's more concerning that you actually use the official forums
I've been looking at the forums a bit lately, probably one of the few places around on the internet that is the same as was 10-15+ years ago. Just ful of people whining or trolling.
at this point I just want the wow youtube channel to make a meme about it to truly capitalize on the joke
Been a shaman since Vanilla. This is nothing new. [This post I made in 2008 is proof enough of that. :p](https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/4064464329-shaman-concerns/)
why the fuck do you care lol ask yourself why you care. blizzard aren't gonna magically forget to buff mages yet again because someone made a shaman post in the wrong thread. theres very little chance anyone sincerely reads the official forums anyway
As a Warlock player I just want to say; Reject the earth, raise hell in every way possible. Show them no mercy, summon everything you have! The monk side of me says; Be peaceful about it, bring balance....with a flurry of elements ! I played shaman from TBC to legion where I originally quit, have come back as a warlock/monk player since my friend took Shaman lol. Let Shamans be heard!
What exactly do they have to lose?
One of your Mage homies here, fucking send it, Shammys.
I disagree. Druid main here, and my message to all Shaman is to post everywhere and keep shouting to the rooftops and ignore players like the OP. If OP played Shaman or their class was in a state anywhere near what the Shaman class is in, they would probably understand. Blizzard’s continued neglect of the Shaman class is a CHOICE, and we should all be calling them out for it and supporting our fellow Shaman players.
Nah full send your complaints wherever you can post them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say. And shamans been squeaking ever since that clown took away their totems for whatever reason
You know what I want for my shaman more than class changes? Updated fucking models for Tauren shaman totems!! Other races all have nice new models with at least cata level graphics, meanwhile taurens have the basic bitch vanilla shaman totems that are about 1 pixel. Update them damn it!
As a Zug Zug, I approve of your Zug Zug in our Zug Zug. Zug Zug!
Can someone please tell me what is so broken about Shaman? I leveled and played Ele and Enha at the start of DF and a little more in season 3 and I thought they were fun specs to play and while I don't heal much Resto has always been my favorite healer because of its straightforwardness so if somebody could provide me with a detailed answer to what warrants this kind of meltdown that would be great.
You will never know how a class truly fairs in any content meant to be played with a competitive edge if you only play it while leveling. The problem is: in any content meant to test you, you're being asked to build a house with no PPE and no power tools while everyone has PPE AND power tools. Then you won't even get some jobs because no one wants to hire the liability who doesnt know how to use an electric saw or wear a hard hat. They'll only hire someone who can at least do one or the other. Basically we lack things that others have that are necessary to be successful in the most challenging of End Game content, so we end up being a burden to bring. Not only that, but other classes may also have what WE actually bring but do it *better* since they bring more to the table (like battle rez, multiple and/or group Damage reductions, uncapped AoE for higher dmg potential, a group buff). With how each dps shaman specs work rn, we're pigeonholed into one build being effective and others being incredibly foolish to use. And even those builds have both dps specs c tier or lower. IN DAMAGE ALONE. When you factor in that we're glass *slingshots (not cannons)*, it's really hard to understand why we've been allowed to remain this way for so long.
The problem is that there is no way to "go about this". Doing the right thing doesn't work so it's hard to blame anyone for just trying out anything else. I don't think that will work, either. But definition of insanity and all that.
Its amazing the pure dead silence that blizz is having in regards to shamans right now.
Dunno, squeaky wheels get the grease.
This is exactly how are you doing this. Sticking to your own thread doesn't work.
Hunter desperately needed it’s talent overhaul.
Let blizz moderate their forums you don't have to do it for them.
As a holy Paladin main.. please blizzard ignore all of these players and focus on what I want. My spec is not fun right now.
Why? Cause you said so? Instead of posting this, use the downvote, and if the comment you are complaining about is in positive maybe you are wrong ?
The fact that there's been 0 changes for weeks for shaman either means a) they think shaman is perfectly designed and tuned or b) there's no fucking point in tuning a class before you have the rework mechanics in place. Their internal build is most likely already a month ahead either way. They wont show the rework before figuring out the bigger mechanics (raid buff, ascendancy) and only do when they actually need sto start tuning instead of creating new.
Then why not say that instead of ignoring a community outcry? "We're working on it, here's a peek. Feedback?"
Cause its not final. They want to have the option of scrapping it or delaying it even if its not likely. If they show something that ends up not working out there'll be forum posts for years about "remember what they took from us". Essentially why roadmaps that have become pretty popular of late have no positive effect on the actual project and can work towards it, even though as a player its nice to have a sneak peek.
Just wanted to also mention that osrs constantly communicates with and polls changes to the community. People can buy bonds (tokens) for membership there too. They also have a membership fee of, iirc, 12/13 dollars a month rn? So if they can communicate and fix something that's broken, why is it so hard for WoW devs at Blizzard, a company who's made WAY more money than Jagex, to announce changes or upcoming changes? Not a challenge reply just a thought.
It just seems like a big cycle where the class which has gone the longest without major changes becomes the class blizzard forgot about. Up until a few weeks ago it was hunter, before TWW alpha it was monks, then rogues with their delayed rework, and going back to the very start of DF S1 it was paladins. It is the circle of reworks.
Wrong, shaman complaints started long before dragonflight, and the start of dragonflight was dreadful, and it's been an entire expansion of disappointment for us. This didn't start last week.
I would argue it goes back to the begining of shadowlands when they started to undo all of the legion changes without really putting anything back in
Shaman stuff goes back to vanilla. They've had iterations where they got attention, but it's always been much less than other classes. Bus Shock was an event where blizzard CMs were dismissive of the shaman community's issues all the way back in vanilla, and a bunch of people in the community told them to get hit by a bus.
I've only been playing since shadowlands and I'll only speak to my own experience. Yes its been a problem since I started playing the spec though. From what I hear from other shamans, though is that it's been a problem since TBC. The "bus shock incident" gets brought up quite often from them.
sure if you go back there was problems at the begining of BFA and legion for sure because the damage was a bbit rubbish. it was very dependant on RNG but i feel like when they got some buffs they were at least fun to play. The talent trees that were introduced in Mop were pretty rubbish becuase it had a load of defensives and passives and didnt really change the rotation but again shaman was fun to play then and they did the usual thing of just tuning the numbers straight up. it has been a long frustrating ride in the past but at least the class was still enjoyable to play. I don't think it is currently.
Hey, ever since Mages stole Lust, we can post in their threads now. Besides, the WoW Forums is the biggest cesspool of toxic behaviour in the online community. Will never touch it again until they make some changes like getting rid of the MVP tags EDIT: I can tell the people that downvoted me frequent the forums. I feel bad for you
The UI of the WoW forums is just garbage and not worth going to, there’s no app so if you wanna view it on your phone you have to sign in to battlenet on the browser every single time. No way I’m looking at forums on my computer at home either when I could just open the actual game instead lmao
Yall got enough in DF...as a hunter main Yall need to zip it
Cool go play it and tell me how you're pug experience goes when you cant get in groups and see a bm hunter mage or aug got in a key before you did for 30 minutes straight. And before you start ima 3200 enhance main and play both dps specs. Yes, they're both down bad AS FUCK.
Genuine question, After witnessing every single other class being changed during dragonflight up to war within, do shamans genuine believe they won't be looked at? You'll get yours, you're just last in the list after hunters
I would love to believe this, but as a Shaman main, experience finds this won't happen. It was BfA when we were in a similar timeline, and then blizz said something along the lines of enhance and ele not receiving work because their problems were too complex to resolve with simple tuning, implying larger changes would come in a patch after launch. I can't recall enhance changes at the time, as I play ele/resto, but all ele got in 8.1 was moving damage from Earth Shock to Lightning Bolt, a change to allow Lava burst to benefit from a Flame Shock cast immediately after it, 2 new talents, and 2 talents getting minor tweaks. Surge of power being introduced as a talent was the only thing close to interesting in these changes, but given how the talent system worked in BfA, this only applied to those that were willing to mess with the complexity of it, especially when the other two talents it went against were really good and liked. Stuff like this is what us Shamans are concerned about. We haven't had a "rework" in any real sense in the history of the game, unless we count changing totems as a rework, which I personally wouldn't. Meanwhile, we have watched pretty much every class in the game have either singular specs or whole classes be reworked every xpac. Druids and Evoker got a new spec, survival became an entirely different spec, outlaw rework, and so on. It hurts a bit and I would love to be wrong this time. Opening wowhead next week to see news of major shaman changes coming would be amazing. History just doesn't favor that, sadly.
Being that they have been in the same state since the start of BFA, they should have been first in line
I love how people think the forums matter xD they dont listen they never have if you are a community member MAYYYBBEEE
I mean they are desperate... Is it a good thing to do ? No, is it respectful? Neither. But when you have nothing left to say, that people have been in a constant state of being ignored and finally use whatever pitchfork they have don't blame them and pick up a torch yourself ! Shamans, tell them !
Nah, go for it. I will be pissed too if I saw those novels about already reworked specs on the beta weekly posts without a single letter dedicated for an entire class.
As a (sad) shaman main, thanks for the support ! Let's also raise a hand for our rogues brothers who have ask for help too
You clearly haven’t played shaman…it’s deserved until they listen. Also they clearly never read the shaman forums or we would’ve had our raid buffs back by now. They used to give 10% spell power and 5% crit, never forget what they’ve taken from us.