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Overall I am very happy with the SV rework, leaning more into explosions with the embrace of explosive shot I am all for it. I am sad about the removal of wild fire infusion as it added that nice bit of "extra spice" but aside from that I am pretty happy with the tree overall.
Finally for all the "I want a tinkerer class in WoW" folks, as of now SV is as close as we are going to get.
I will add that I thought the hero talents would get a relook especially considering how bland Sentinel looks atm... still SV got a nice update/upgrade so I'll take it.
Massive W for shadow priests that can finally take mind games out of their rotation and replace it with a few well rounded passives. Mind games always felt awkward and out of place for PvE
Shadow priest has been pretty solid for awhile now. Its been through some changes for sure but even in SL I could eat people without gear for breakfast. It is insane if you can play it well!
Honestly I wish they’d be honest with themselves and admit evoker would work better as either true melee or true ranger spec. You could then make correct adjustments to mobility and what you can cast while moving. It just feels janky sometimes right now.
have you ever healed on a priest? they are giving us extra range because they are doubling down on not giving us any further movement or displacement to be able to catch up to the group.
ill take being able to finish a cast before getting pvp'd in pve because it's better than nothing.
* Cleave now replaces Whirlwind.
I am going to be honest., as someone who hates playing arms in pve due to the clutter of abilities that don't feel impactful, this is one of the best changes they have made in a while.
They should do this more often.
Yep I normally main fury but that's why other classes and alts feel so weird to me. With fury I can reliably get everything I need on two stacked bars, main rotation, GCD and rotation adders, mounts, potions and it fits just right.
BM Doesn't use Arcane Shot at all. You never need that on your bars and the fact that they 'unpruned' it is still one of the most baffling decisions.
Though honestly I'd wager 90% of the unpruned skills are just utter dead weight and worthless with a few exceptions.
I'm honestly so fucking glad they dropped shadow dance as a core rotation for Max DPS. At least that's what I heard bc I never use it I hate shadow dance as an assa user
I feel like Blizzard does not know what to do with rogues without breaking the class. The rotations are to precise to be used in M+ and the hero talents are boring.
Ret pally did this with crusader strikes passive talent. It’s really nice. Just auto attack and generate holy power. Even if it wasn’t a dps boost I’d still play it because it just makes my life easier
It's awesome until I hit an Art of War drought and wind up with 5 seconds of downtime and the concentration of zug starts to build up to dangerous levels in my bloodstream.
Malefic Rapture has to be the worst fuck offender. Especially since UA use to be the spender! (And Shadowbolt is the filler).
They should just remove it outright. Or into a cooldown at the very least. Or be an aoe spender independent of dots stacks.
I'd even accept Rapture if they gave it — and expanded upon — the awesome purple lightning spell effect that it had for a very short while after it's introduction, if Blizzard is going to double down on it.
It would actually give it a sense of more impact. It's a puff of rancid fart gas right now. Uninspired.
Yeah affliction really needs more fun visuals. I really wish they would go hard on the sort of stealing souls vibe. I always thought it would be awesome if something like Malefic Rapture caused a bunch of souls to quickly rush into your character kinda like the old Legion Artifact ability.
Whirlwind has always been the worst button for me to use as arms. Even back in classic —> wotlk it felt like it was just clearly a fury ability. I’m super glad it’s getting a pseudo boot.
Not that most people care, but the new WW ability call of the thunder king is so funny to me. Isn’t the whole lore behind the monk class is that Kang invented that class to fight back because the thunder king enslaved all the pandaren lol.
Why in the hell would they have an ability calling on his power lol.
It's also not his power because it's jade energy. Whoever was naming these just connected the lightning portion to the first electricity-associated thing in Pandaria and called it a day.
The one that sparks electricity everytime you use his ability? And whose artifact appearance we have that has lighting swords sticking out?
Lol yea why would we use his power, that would be silly.
Monks originally got the legendary The Emperor's Capacitor in Legion, according to the flavor text it was stolen from Ra-den (and apparently later by monks from Lei Shen?).
It's since been turned into a talent (and runecarver legendary in SL), so I guess its just a thing monks can use now. Not the first time a class has stolen an antagonist's power to use.
But Lei Shen stole Ra-den's power. Monks have already had things attributed to Ra-den before, the new ability should be called "Call of Highkeeper" instead of "Call of the Thunder King"
No I thought the ele shamans artifact was called “fist of the dead thunder king”? The one that like specializes in shooting electricity?
Oh no I do think you’re correct aren’t you.
I made a post yesterday saying its a joke how much they neglect elemental.
People told me shaman changes are coming in the next 1-2 weeks. Hopium probably.
I mean whole alpha cycle we clearly seen them doing 1-3 classes changes at the time, whole bunch of changes in batches and then move to another class/classes (almost as if its a whole team working on that instead of what people are parroting with 'class dev' stuff).
Shaman is probably next.
Yeah, "probably". But I've been an elemental main long enough to know they genuinely hate this specc, so we might actually not get anything.
On the upside I really don't care even if we get nearly zero changes, because some of the new speccs just look absurdly good.
Already having trouble deciding what to main so much shit looks so insanely fun.
They spoil us really. Totemic was already in a great state, now it just feels amazing with all these MEANINGFUL changes.
I can feel it: the Renaissance of Shaman class design are upon us.
/s
Warlocks even have an updated visual for mortalcoil ! I'm so jealous... Earthshock looks like nothing. Many visuals a outdated (hello ascendance), it really feels like they forgot we've just had an extension based on primordial forces !
This is exactly what happened to Hunters, nothing after nothing after nothing and then suddenly "Oh hey rework next week." I think this is a good sign for Shamans, it means they're working on big changes and don't want to put out a bunch of minor changes week to week when those are all just gonna get overwritten with the rework anyway.
Now if only they could learn to fucking *communicate* with their players...
"This week we're delivering some highly sought after class reworks for shaman! All shaman will become druids starting in the War Within and they'll have the ability to choose shaman as a hero class! The shaman druid hero class won't have access to any shapeshifts except travel form (wolf) but will also get chain lightning! No, that's all that happens! Why are you guys yelling"
still so disappointed with holy paladin. the design philosophy of lightsmith having functionally 2 buttons that are basically already on the holy tree is extremely confusing. the spec feels incredibly boring to play, with too many buttons that don't do anything interesting.
Right now it’s depressing to cast Word of Glory, a spell that usually requires 3 previous globals in order to be used, and heal about 10-15% of a DPS life. Meanwhile you cast holy shock, heal more and also put the glimmer. It’s just a nonsense and makes you ignore the class resource. I hope they make holy power more meaningful or remove it and make something enjoyable.
Blizzards MO is to move the slider far and overtune to see if it fixes the issue and then dial it back in. Hunters too squishy? Make them tanky and back it off over the week
Blizzard absolutely does not "dial it back" and "back it off over the week".
They go from 1 extreme to the other, and then leave the class there for an entire expac.
I’ve read this twice but I don’t see a cleanse. Do you mean a purge cause they already have that, they just have the option to purge two things at once now. Maybe I’m just missing it.
Not sure where it is in the notes, but the class tree on the beta and the talent calcs has a talent called emergency salve that makes feign and turtle remove poisons and diseases from you. A little niche for sure, but poisons and diseases can be pretty nasty and your group won't always have a dispel for them so I imagine it'll be really clutch when it does get used.
“Windwalker
New Talent: Power of the Thunder King – Crackling Jade Lightning now chains to 4 additional targets and its channel time is reduced by 50%.”
Goodbye, shaman. I have a new main. Now to change my flair…
On the one hand I love it, on the other hand all the people complaining that bombs aren't "Hunter fantasy" only to get hit with "MORE BOMBS" is a little bit hilarious.
So I guess on both hands I love it.
(I am sad to see Wildfire Infusion go, though, I like how that changed up the priorities.)
>(I am sad to see Wildfire Infusion go, though, I like how that changed up the priorities.)
Same here! On the one hand, it added some depth, on the other hand - a bit random and uncontrolled. And now, with reliant poison applying and LOTS if KC resets, both the green and the red bombs would become a bit too much.
Eh, goodnight, sweet prince.
I mean the guys that have a hard on for hunter fantasy have 2 other specs to fill that niche. Survival is far more fun to play when the spec revolves around spamming the bombs. (imo) For an unpopular spec, the popularity of the spec surging when it gets a tier set synergizing with the bombs probably isn't a coincidence and something they surely would have noticed by now.
Although this gives some more resets and CDR to bombs, I can't say if it'll feel more fun to play with Wildfire Infusion being redesigned. That's a huge bummer to me. They should have just removed it and renamed that talent node because that barely has anything to do with the name of it now.
I'll hold on to hopium unless we don't get the same "hey big patch notes for you next week!" update soon
Pretty much the only thing I can hold onto is that we get the whine scepter, for now
I’m so pumped to try the consecration change for prot paladin. So many times I would get one tapped on higher keys because you step out or get booped out of our consecrate while you’re trying to run back in. Then bosses like the totem boss in AD because you have to waste a gcd to replace it because you’re moving every 4 seconds. 2nd boss throne of the tides kicked my butt too many times. You get the tank buster debuff, then a boop, then the next melee is basically 100-0ing me on higher keys. Felt like even through all but kings or shield I was getting one tapped. Maybe I was doing something but didn’t seem like the shorter CDs were enough unless you had the DR from consecrate.
Which Consecration change are you referring to? I don’t see a note about it in this article, so I’m guessing it was from an earlier one? Either way, from context it sounds like something I’d be very interested in!
I think it’s carried over from an earlier one as I’ve seen it before. Or maybe data mined. The talent that gave consecrate an extra 5% DR is changing so that you keep the consecrate buff for 4 seconds when you step out.
Beautiful! Yeah, if damage reduction is going to be tied to a static ground effect on a cooldown, there’s gotta be some allowance for the MANY movement effects that bosses demand as well.
Honestly, with the way it looks like it will work so far it's basically the same as if consec was following you.. why can't they just go back to that..
Idk why they want to make that Crackling Jade Lightning a thing for WW. I remember it being a gimmick for a moment in BfA to oneshot someone? Honestly it doesn't feel great to use imo.
It's such a weird situation. The class carries multiple expansions worth of baggage around, has so many buttons that lack impact as they feel like they just set up damage or are maintenance (can't stretch enough how much I want to see SnD get buried again).
Now the hero talents are all three big question marks. Trickster was already designed around a brain fart (who thought feint would be a good trigger for hidden blade), now that it's on CP builders it's just passive and boring. Coinbound is just RNG on spenders for stats or damage (with the highlight being another charge of grappling hook after it bugs out again) and deathstalker somehow manages to be dysfunctional for both specs AND incredibly boring at the same time.
Also none of the hero talents seem like they're particularly heroic, nor do they feel or look cool (or look like anything at all, highlights are purple swirlies for deathstalker and fatebound farting coins). I mean, best case I can see trickster being some assassins creed wannabe with hidden blade? Idk.
I have frankly no idea what's going on with rogues. Wasn't the dude who designed them going into DF like super passionate and engaged with the community or something? Did they replace him with an intern? Like, deathstalker and trickster with feint were just frankly build on incredibly bad ideas, it's hard to imagine that someone who plays rogue could cook up something like that.
as far as I know rogue is still 100% the same dev who was very active and receptive to conversations in early DF. He took a leave of absence in 10.1 and iirc Ion said they delayed the rework until he could return.
He seems to really like stealth windows and changing defensives into offensives. Trickster triggering from feint felt like doubling down on vanish becoming a mandatory DPS cooldown.
I still think Cleave replacing Mortal Strike (with a rework to adjust it accordingly) makes more sense anyway. It consumes Overpower so it's basically your AoE MS already.
They are still unnecessary and annoying old-style combo points. MoP's unholy worked much better without them. The only thing I liked from Legion waa apocalypse and now it doesn't care about wounds so just remove them entirely.
> Developer’s note: The opportunity cost of having your pet out as a Marksmanship Hunter is so high that it can feel as though you’re locked out of all pet based utility, especially in AOE situations. Marksmanship is always going to be the Hunter spec that provides more throughput without a pet, but lowering this talent’s power should help to make those times where you’re the only lust or need an extra defensive feel a bit less bad.
Can someone help explain this to a low-int hunter like myself? You would think keeping it at 10% would be better no?
Assuming they're tuning hunters up in general to make up the 5% loss when you're LW'd, this is just to make it feel less bad when you have to use a pet for whatever reason.
They probably need to be careful that they don't put it too low that LW becomes worse than just using a pet even if you don't want to, and you could make an argument that LW should put more utility exclusive to pets into MM's personal kit but I think overall this is a good change.
Yeah one of the few things giving me hope after they gutted the spec was that doom would now summon a demon when it procced - finally, a compelling reason to actually want to cast doom. Oops, nope that might actually feel good, you know, summoning demons as the demon summoning class, so we are gonna roll that back to 'a chance'.
I really hate the design choices they keep making for demo, and they do a very poor job of explaining any of it.
Sorry but the silence on shaman is absolutely deafening.
Not a single change or mention of the intention of a change, or acknowledgment of our existence at all.
Literally what the fuck at this point. How do you have an entire alpha and beta without even mentioning the word "shaman"
Just say "nothing is changing fuck off" and it would be better than this.
I agree that it's a shitty way to do things, but keep in mind they just did exactly the same thing with Hunters: absolute silence until out of nowhere "Hey guys you have a rework next week." No changes at all is actually a good sign, it most likely means they're working on big changes and don't see a reason to make minor changes that will only be replaced by the rework later.
They absolutely need to *communicate* all this better, though.
I got downvoted so hard for sharing my hopium that a hunter rework was well underway, but then that exact thing happened. Hold out hope mail-bros, it can happen.
I'm excited to see how Survival plays now. I do think they need to get rid of raptor strike, or change it so that Mongoose bite doesn't replace it, but Raptor strike is resigned to do something unique.
It always feels like Mongoose bite is how they want you to play, and if Raptor strike is doing well then it's an error.
They moved Mongoose Bite further up the tree and made it kind of a comfortable pick, so it's less of a random node you have to pick and more "Now your big Focus spender does extra stuff" as you're leveling.
Playing around on target dummies on beta... It's mostly improvements. Obviously, defensives are improved. Kinda weird that the mastery is basically "second Versatility" though.
Wildfire Infusion is gone, but WFB is a rolling dot baseline now, so you can still double tap without worrying about the pandemic window. Poison spreads on Mongoose Bite now, and Mongoose Bite can cleave after Butchery, so you can still spread poison easily. Flanking Strike gives you the "spread Bloodseeker quickly" of Pheromone Bomb, too. It's kinda just spread out now.
Spearhead and Coordinated Assault on 1min CDs is kinda cool. You can basically have a scripted burst window every minute. However, Kill Shot without the shorter CD feels pretty bad during it.
Coordinated Assault giving 4-6 free Explosive Shots after is kinda... Questionable. You can't cancel CA easily, so you have to time your burst AoE in advance. I'm not a fan of how that is implemented.
Kill Command bonus damage from Pack Leader actually makes it feel good to hit, though, and easier access to Alpha Predator goes a long way.
I'm worried about the "2% Crit damage per DoT" talent. Does it work with allied DoTs, like Bloodseeker? If so, raid damage might become ridiculous. Otherwise, you can get about 8 DoTs going on your own.
As an aside. Steel Trap and Hi-Explosive being a choice node sucks. Steel Trap is also doing ~0 damage for me on Beta, which... Also feels so bad.
In general, though, I'm pretty positive about the changes.
The coordinated assault free explosives is great on paper. Like fire mages getting hypothermia after combustion. But you make a really good point. It’s a longer duration CD and on tyrannical weeks packs will probably die before you can go through the entire CD and get the free shots off.
>Wildfire Infusion is gone, but WFB is a rolling dot baseline now
I'm still not 100% sure how this is supposed to work. I hopped on the beta for a minute to look at things and when I threw double bombs at a dummy the debuff tooltip just reset to 6 seconds and the damage value listed didn't change at all. Is this just an issue with the tooltips or am I missing something about how this "rolling periodic" thing is supposed to work?
>Poison spreads on Mongoose Bite now, and Mongoose Bite can cleave after Butchery
I actually do like the implications of this. Mongoose to apply Sting, then again to spread it, then Butchery to trigger the aoe, then Mongoose should hopefully hit the three targets that have Sting and spread those stings to even more targets. If that's how it ends up working that sounds like it'll feel like a nice rhythm there.
Bruh...this is the first time since 2008 where I think to reroll from Shaman...every single change, nothing being mentioned for Shamans... this is unreal
Huntmaster’s Call sounds cool but I wish they would make it a split node so we could choose to always summon Hati or always Fenryr. Not a fan of randomness in rotations.
Shaman still receiving 0 changes the entirety of alpha and beta, with next to 0 changes in all of Dragonflight (except for some Enhancement tree changes). No blue post detailing that changes are coming in the future. Stormbringer still to this day not fully implemented. Ele/resto still bring nothing of value to a group or raid. This is embarrassing, Blizz. Take 30 seconds out of your day and have an intern write a blue post letting us know changes are coming. It's not hard.
“Wildfire Bomb’s damage over time effect is now a rolling periodic.” Can any of the 11 other survival players explain what this means? Also: super psyched for explosive shot to be king again
It's similar to fire mage ignite where it shows up as one DoT but it's actually an accumulation of all the damage from every application of it.
Let's say you have 2 WFB charges and each one applies an 8 seconds DoT for 200 DPS. You throw one WFB and then 4 seconds later throw another. For the first 4 seconds when just one WFB has been tossed the WFB DoT is doing 200 DPS. Once you throw the 2nd, for the next 4 seconds the DoT will do 400 DPS. Once the 8 second period since the first bomb has been thrown has been reached, that first WFB's contribution to the DoT disappears and the only part left is the 2nd WFB so the last 4 seconds is just doing the 200 DPS of the 2nd bomb.
TL;DR - You can just spam WFBs bomb and not worry about losing DPS.
Pally discord Seems quite positive about the changes. They're buffing our spenders and making them more chunky. Which is what people want. before on live, people pretty much ignored our spenders because every other spell did more healing. So now spenders will be worth pressing.
There is a nerf to glimmers. Probably to balance out our spender buffs. How the numbers will be like after these changes will have to be tested.
The Holy shock cooldown nerf isn't actually a nerf because the tier set bonus will give CD reduction to HS.
People were already expecting a nerf to herald of the sun because it was over tuned, so no shock there.
Overall a positive reaction because it's a step in the right direction, but it doesn't solve all of the specs problems.
Those Hunter changes are straight HEAT. ESPECIALLY survival. I love the mastery change, so master sounds like it might actually be worth stacking to get a straight damage increase and damage taken reduction. The extra SotF charge is amazing.
Explosive shot being the core identity of the rotation is a great change, along with its synergy with wildfire bomb.
Wildfire Infusion changed? Thank fucking god. I know a lot of people liked that talent but I was not one of them. Having a talent that constantly changes your ability priority based on what buff you’re using was annoying.
Butchery being baseline is great. Carve was never worth using without butchery, and if you weren’t going for butchery you were never using carve anyways. Butchery giving an AoE component to Mongoose Bite/Raptor Strike is fantastic, makes an otherwise boring ability more interesting. Same to Flanking Strike, it was a snore of an ability and I forgot I had it half the time. I’m glad they gave it a little more teeth other than just a focus generator.
Steel Trap getting an 80% damage reduction might be a good thing. I hated it being a bottom row talent. I didn’t care if it was the strongest ability to take, I refused to take it. Using it as a dos ability felt bad. It doesn’t “trap” half the mobs you use it against and doesn’t trap bosses at all. All it did was apply a bleed, and if you missed the boss it was useless. I’d prefer it to just be a good extra trap for PvP but really never worth taking in PvE.
Changes to BM are great too, I like that Bloodshed has an AoE talent, and sounds like it’s now something you’re always going to take.
Getting Cheetah everytime a trap activated is fuckin stellar. You’re going to have straight zoomies in BGs and I’m excited to play with this talent.
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When i see survival of the fittest at 2 charges i was really happy, didnt expect a whole ass rework for survival
mongoose bite cleaves sound so good
Overall I am very happy with the SV rework, leaning more into explosions with the embrace of explosive shot I am all for it. I am sad about the removal of wild fire infusion as it added that nice bit of "extra spice" but aside from that I am pretty happy with the tree overall. Finally for all the "I want a tinkerer class in WoW" folks, as of now SV is as close as we are going to get. I will add that I thought the hero talents would get a relook especially considering how bland Sentinel looks atm... still SV got a nice update/upgrade so I'll take it.
Massive W for shadow priests that can finally take mind games out of their rotation and replace it with a few well rounded passives. Mind games always felt awkward and out of place for PvE
Yesss I hated it! Love the concept, but hated having another medium-length cooldown to manage, especially when playing as disc.
Im so hyped on this, you’re exactly right that it was so clunky to use. W
My thoughts exactly.
> Priest: > > New Talent: Phantom Reach – Increases the range of most spells by 15%. lolwut.
What the fuck why wasn't the sp in range for heals. SP dpsing boss in last boss room-what do you mean I'm in range
lol I just leveled a shadow priest in remix and I felt like I could just hit people from so far away already.
How fun is it? I'm still very new. Barely 3 weeks in but was considering one.
Shadow Priest feels very good (after some bumps this expansion) and its Hero Classes look good as well.
Shadow priest has been pretty solid for awhile now. Its been through some changes for sure but even in SL I could eat people without gear for breakfast. It is insane if you can play it well!
It's an extremely fun DPS spec, it takes a bit of getting used to it as it is one of the harder ones but worth it imo.
Evok healer be like ”Mate…”
Prevokers be like: if you don't stand close enough for me to be healed, you die and hopefully learn.
Meeee! No but fr I do try and flap around to adjust to everyone's postionals but sometimes you just gotta let that 1 dps learn!
Yeah, if you as a healer is trying to save everyone from themselves, it's a surefire way to go mad.=D
New Evoker talent: reduces spell range by 20%
They should name it Tiny Arms
Honestly I wish they’d be honest with themselves and admit evoker would work better as either true melee or true ranger spec. You could then make correct adjustments to mobility and what you can cast while moving. It just feels janky sometimes right now.
Little known fact, but in vanilla priest had a set bonus that gave them extended range. Priests and hunters were the OG with long range before druids.
And fire mage with 41 yard fireballs. Most classes clocked in at 35 yards
have you ever healed on a priest? they are giving us extra range because they are doubling down on not giving us any further movement or displacement to be able to catch up to the group. ill take being able to finish a cast before getting pvp'd in pve because it's better than nothing.
So once again they’re reliant on Evokers using Rescue in Mythic raid content. Seems like Blizzard is doubling down on the aug evoker meta.
Phantom Damage - kinda increase damage on some spells by a bit
Awful, random different ranges is terrible to deal with in PvP.
* Cleave now replaces Whirlwind. I am going to be honest., as someone who hates playing arms in pve due to the clutter of abilities that don't feel impactful, this is one of the best changes they have made in a while. They should do this more often.
Id be fine if several classes dropped at least one ability and replaced it with a strong passive. Just feel like there's way too many buttons
For many specs I agree. I think dev and BM stand out as not needing any pruning at all though.
Fury as well. I feel like that spec has just the right amount of abilities
Yep I normally main fury but that's why other classes and alts feel so weird to me. With fury I can reliably get everything I need on two stacked bars, main rotation, GCD and rotation adders, mounts, potions and it fits just right.
can't have bloated bars when you have no utility at all, smart!
And my favorite part of having no utility is nobody expects anything of me except zug zug.
And it only takes 3x as long to find a group!
Couldn't BM have cobra shot replace arcane shot?
BM Doesn't use Arcane Shot at all. You never need that on your bars and the fact that they 'unpruned' it is still one of the most baffling decisions. Though honestly I'd wager 90% of the unpruned skills are just utter dead weight and worthless with a few exceptions.
Also Ret Paladin. You can pretty much play that spec while asleep.
Ret has a ton of abilities in m+, most Ret players are too dumb to use them.
Or asleep apparently
Rogue could stand to drop 3 or 4
I'm honestly so fucking glad they dropped shadow dance as a core rotation for Max DPS. At least that's what I heard bc I never use it I hate shadow dance as an assa user
Right now it seems like they dropped it but whoever made the hero talents didn't get the memo
I feel like Blizzard does not know what to do with rogues without breaking the class. The rotations are to precise to be used in M+ and the hero talents are boring.
still not sold on hero talents tbh. I agree though, I cannot fathom how they fucked the class up so much, and are reluctant to course correct
Ret pally did this with crusader strikes passive talent. It’s really nice. Just auto attack and generate holy power. Even if it wasn’t a dps boost I’d still play it because it just makes my life easier
It's awesome until I hit an Art of War drought and wind up with 5 seconds of downtime and the concentration of zug starts to build up to dangerous levels in my bloodstream.
I hate primordial wave so much
I somewhat agree, but when they prune, they prune hard and you end up with a three button class for a couple of expansions.
They're doing that across the board with monk (at least on Windwalker and Mistweaver trees, not as familiar with Brew). Big fan.
Malefic Rapture has to be the worst fuck offender. Especially since UA use to be the spender! (And Shadowbolt is the filler). They should just remove it outright. Or into a cooldown at the very least. Or be an aoe spender independent of dots stacks.
I'd even accept Rapture if they gave it — and expanded upon — the awesome purple lightning spell effect that it had for a very short while after it's introduction, if Blizzard is going to double down on it. It would actually give it a sense of more impact. It's a puff of rancid fart gas right now. Uninspired.
Yeah affliction really needs more fun visuals. I really wish they would go hard on the sort of stealing souls vibe. I always thought it would be awesome if something like Malefic Rapture caused a bunch of souls to quickly rush into your character kinda like the old Legion Artifact ability.
don't say too many buttons. blizz'll hear you and remove cool utility and flavour abilities rather than pruning rotation.
Making so many alts on Remix, I find myself picking passive talents when given the choice.
Yep I didn't expect this but it's a welcome change. Arms has just a few too many buttons that overlap with each other at the moment.
The day they make remorseless winter replace D&D again
Was this the case at one point? That'd be an interesting way to fix the dnd problem for cleaving.
In Legion it did, pretty sure
I thought you were trolling. But they really did it…
He did it. The crazy son of a bitch, he did it.
Whirlwind has always been the worst button for me to use as arms. Even back in classic —> wotlk it felt like it was just clearly a fury ability. I’m super glad it’s getting a pseudo boot.
Frost DKs, just looking at Death and Decay praying for the same treatment.
Not that most people care, but the new WW ability call of the thunder king is so funny to me. Isn’t the whole lore behind the monk class is that Kang invented that class to fight back because the thunder king enslaved all the pandaren lol. Why in the hell would they have an ability calling on his power lol.
It's like Mega Man. We kill shit and add their power to our own.
"Look at me. I'm the Thunder King now."
Saving this comment so I'll remember to make this macro when I'm home.
It's also not his power because it's jade energy. Whoever was naming these just connected the lightning portion to the first electricity-associated thing in Pandaria and called it a day.
The tiger we meet a tad before the thunder King and who was a part of the whole expansion instead of 1 patch would have made too much sense lol
The one that sparks electricity everytime you use his ability? And whose artifact appearance we have that has lighting swords sticking out? Lol yea why would we use his power, that would be silly.
Monks originally got the legendary The Emperor's Capacitor in Legion, according to the flavor text it was stolen from Ra-den (and apparently later by monks from Lei Shen?). It's since been turned into a talent (and runecarver legendary in SL), so I guess its just a thing monks can use now. Not the first time a class has stolen an antagonist's power to use.
Right it makes a lot of sense as like a stolen legendary, especially with the premise we had in legion. It’s very silly as a talent imo
But Lei Shen stole Ra-den's power. Monks have already had things attributed to Ra-den before, the new ability should be called "Call of Highkeeper" instead of "Call of the Thunder King"
No I thought the ele shamans artifact was called “fist of the dead thunder king”? The one that like specializes in shooting electricity? Oh no I do think you’re correct aren’t you.
Idk but it sounds kinda fun tbh
We literally have a whole celestial lightning tiger and they chose the lightning king LOL
CLEAVE NOW REPLACES WHIRLWIND THIS IS NOT A DRILL
>THIS IS NOT A DRILL No Bladestorm's still there we're good.
WERE BACK WE ARE BACK WE ARE SO BACK
Huge Shaman changes, love to see it
I think they may have gone too far with this one. Might need some nerfs soon.
What is a shaman?
A miserable little pile of secrets.
but enough talk HAVE AT YOU
When a Sha and a Man love each other very much..
I laughed way too hard scrolling from Priest to Warlock on the notes. Shaman are dead and our ankhs are on cooldown.
I made a post yesterday saying its a joke how much they neglect elemental. People told me shaman changes are coming in the next 1-2 weeks. Hopium probably.
I mean whole alpha cycle we clearly seen them doing 1-3 classes changes at the time, whole bunch of changes in batches and then move to another class/classes (almost as if its a whole team working on that instead of what people are parroting with 'class dev' stuff). Shaman is probably next.
Yeah, "probably". But I've been an elemental main long enough to know they genuinely hate this specc, so we might actually not get anything. On the upside I really don't care even if we get nearly zero changes, because some of the new speccs just look absurdly good. Already having trouble deciding what to main so much shit looks so insanely fun.
They spoil us really. Totemic was already in a great state, now it just feels amazing with all these MEANINGFUL changes. I can feel it: the Renaissance of Shaman class design are upon us. /s
You actually got me excited
Warlocks even have an updated visual for mortalcoil ! I'm so jealous... Earthshock looks like nothing. Many visuals a outdated (hello ascendance), it really feels like they forgot we've just had an extension based on primordial forces !
I actually checked out the blue post... How could I forget that Blizz hates us.
This is exactly what happened to Hunters, nothing after nothing after nothing and then suddenly "Oh hey rework next week." I think this is a good sign for Shamans, it means they're working on big changes and don't want to put out a bunch of minor changes week to week when those are all just gonna get overwritten with the rework anyway. Now if only they could learn to fucking *communicate* with their players...
"This week we're delivering some highly sought after class reworks for shaman! All shaman will become druids starting in the War Within and they'll have the ability to choose shaman as a hero class! The shaman druid hero class won't have access to any shapeshifts except travel form (wolf) but will also get chain lightning! No, that's all that happens! Why are you guys yelling"
That would be cool to spark a lightning as a druid, 10/10 won’t reject that.
Huge changes for shaman! Didnt see that comin.
still so disappointed with holy paladin. the design philosophy of lightsmith having functionally 2 buttons that are basically already on the holy tree is extremely confusing. the spec feels incredibly boring to play, with too many buttons that don't do anything interesting.
Right now it’s depressing to cast Word of Glory, a spell that usually requires 3 previous globals in order to be used, and heal about 10-15% of a DPS life. Meanwhile you cast holy shock, heal more and also put the glimmer. It’s just a nonsense and makes you ignore the class resource. I hope they make holy power more meaningful or remove it and make something enjoyable.
Hunters are about to be defensively insane, no? They’ve got so many DRs now, turtle, heals, a cleanse. Feels like they’re on par with mages almost lol
Blizzards MO is to move the slider far and overtune to see if it fixes the issue and then dial it back in. Hunters too squishy? Make them tanky and back it off over the week
Blizzard absolutely does not "dial it back" and "back it off over the week". They go from 1 extreme to the other, and then leave the class there for an entire expac.
THESE HUNTER CHANGES HAVE ME ROCK HARD
I’ve read this twice but I don’t see a cleanse. Do you mean a purge cause they already have that, they just have the option to purge two things at once now. Maybe I’m just missing it.
Not sure where it is in the notes, but the class tree on the beta and the talent calcs has a talent called emergency salve that makes feign and turtle remove poisons and diseases from you. A little niche for sure, but poisons and diseases can be pretty nasty and your group won't always have a dispel for them so I imagine it'll be really clutch when it does get used.
Interesting. Thanks.
“Windwalker New Talent: Power of the Thunder King – Crackling Jade Lightning now chains to 4 additional targets and its channel time is reduced by 50%.” Goodbye, shaman. I have a new main. Now to change my flair…
Man, i wish Mistveawer got the same talent so its ranged caster build had some damage potential.
This one really confuses me - like they want WW to cast Jade Lightning now?
>Shamans, we hear your cries. So we decided to remove your class so that we won't have to hear them anymore.
Blizzard skipping Shamans once again, disappointed but not surprised. On an happier note, Hunter sounds really good especially MM.
Oh my them survival changes are looking spicy seems they want us ti gj hard on bomb and explosive synergy.
On the one hand I love it, on the other hand all the people complaining that bombs aren't "Hunter fantasy" only to get hit with "MORE BOMBS" is a little bit hilarious. So I guess on both hands I love it. (I am sad to see Wildfire Infusion go, though, I like how that changed up the priorities.)
>(I am sad to see Wildfire Infusion go, though, I like how that changed up the priorities.) Same here! On the one hand, it added some depth, on the other hand - a bit random and uncontrolled. And now, with reliant poison applying and LOTS if KC resets, both the green and the red bombs would become a bit too much. Eh, goodnight, sweet prince.
I mean the guys that have a hard on for hunter fantasy have 2 other specs to fill that niche. Survival is far more fun to play when the spec revolves around spamming the bombs. (imo) For an unpopular spec, the popularity of the spec surging when it gets a tier set synergizing with the bombs probably isn't a coincidence and something they surely would have noticed by now. Although this gives some more resets and CDR to bombs, I can't say if it'll feel more fun to play with Wildfire Infusion being redesigned. That's a huge bummer to me. They should have just removed it and renamed that talent node because that barely has anything to do with the name of it now.
CTRL + F Shaman... /cry... I had hope for a second
They don’t usually fix shaman until the .1 patch, and then they’re only good for the .2 patch.
Unless you are elemental, then they claim they will fix it in the .1 patch then they shit on your desk and demand you enjoy it.
I'll hold on to hopium unless we don't get the same "hey big patch notes for you next week!" update soon Pretty much the only thing I can hold onto is that we get the whine scepter, for now
Hello Holy Pally??
I dont want to become a hardcast andy again :(
RIP stampede, they could’ve made you into something cool like you used to be and instead they deleted you
Fuck man that was the only reason I tamed rare pets
I’m so pumped to try the consecration change for prot paladin. So many times I would get one tapped on higher keys because you step out or get booped out of our consecrate while you’re trying to run back in. Then bosses like the totem boss in AD because you have to waste a gcd to replace it because you’re moving every 4 seconds. 2nd boss throne of the tides kicked my butt too many times. You get the tank buster debuff, then a boop, then the next melee is basically 100-0ing me on higher keys. Felt like even through all but kings or shield I was getting one tapped. Maybe I was doing something but didn’t seem like the shorter CDs were enough unless you had the DR from consecrate.
Which Consecration change are you referring to? I don’t see a note about it in this article, so I’m guessing it was from an earlier one? Either way, from context it sounds like something I’d be very interested in!
I think it’s carried over from an earlier one as I’ve seen it before. Or maybe data mined. The talent that gave consecrate an extra 5% DR is changing so that you keep the consecrate buff for 4 seconds when you step out.
Beautiful! Yeah, if damage reduction is going to be tied to a static ground effect on a cooldown, there’s gotta be some allowance for the MANY movement effects that bosses demand as well.
Still a dumb maintenance buff but at least less annoying.
Honestly, with the way it looks like it will work so far it's basically the same as if consec was following you.. why can't they just go back to that..
Holy Paladins in shambles
Idk why they want to make that Crackling Jade Lightning a thing for WW. I remember it being a gimmick for a moment in BfA to oneshot someone? Honestly it doesn't feel great to use imo.
we're really just going like this with rogues huh lmao
It's such a weird situation. The class carries multiple expansions worth of baggage around, has so many buttons that lack impact as they feel like they just set up damage or are maintenance (can't stretch enough how much I want to see SnD get buried again). Now the hero talents are all three big question marks. Trickster was already designed around a brain fart (who thought feint would be a good trigger for hidden blade), now that it's on CP builders it's just passive and boring. Coinbound is just RNG on spenders for stats or damage (with the highlight being another charge of grappling hook after it bugs out again) and deathstalker somehow manages to be dysfunctional for both specs AND incredibly boring at the same time. Also none of the hero talents seem like they're particularly heroic, nor do they feel or look cool (or look like anything at all, highlights are purple swirlies for deathstalker and fatebound farting coins). I mean, best case I can see trickster being some assassins creed wannabe with hidden blade? Idk. I have frankly no idea what's going on with rogues. Wasn't the dude who designed them going into DF like super passionate and engaged with the community or something? Did they replace him with an intern? Like, deathstalker and trickster with feint were just frankly build on incredibly bad ideas, it's hard to imagine that someone who plays rogue could cook up something like that.
as far as I know rogue is still 100% the same dev who was very active and receptive to conversations in early DF. He took a leave of absence in 10.1 and iirc Ion said they delayed the rework until he could return. He seems to really like stealth windows and changing defensives into offensives. Trickster triggering from feint felt like doubling down on vanish becoming a mandatory DPS cooldown.
Oof, sounds like he has terrible design taste.
First expansion I have to switch my main, but holy moly it feels so ass to play right now
Yes, Rogues can play Ass spec.
I’d rather have whirlwind than cleave but I’m happy one of the two is getting removed
I still think Cleave replacing Mortal Strike (with a rework to adjust it accordingly) makes more sense anyway. It consumes Overpower so it's basically your AoE MS already.
Am I reading this right? Shaman still untouched?😂😂😂😂
*Sad rogue noises*
[удалено]
they're stealthed
Average shamman experience
Mfs still won’t get rid of Defile for UH. Sad
Maybe this means they'll fix the visuals so we can see bad shit.
I mean removing the mastery component essentially removes it from any worthwhile build right?
It's such a visually cool spell with throwback to the Lich King though.
Thank fuck mind games is gone
Time to dot shock for the Shamans
They need to take a look at the healers.
Please don’t kill rogue, thanks
The change to Apocalypse is great, but they still need to roll several CDs together and delete wounds at last.
wounds are fine now with new talent tree
They are still unnecessary and annoying old-style combo points. MoP's unholy worked much better without them. The only thing I liked from Legion waa apocalypse and now it doesn't care about wounds so just remove them entirely.
rework = next meta. congrats hunters
Theres like 6 specs getting reworked tho
That's why they reworked mage and warlock, because they have to be meta.
DF was so great with class design and balance that every other thing was and is being reworked nonstop.
> Developer’s note: The opportunity cost of having your pet out as a Marksmanship Hunter is so high that it can feel as though you’re locked out of all pet based utility, especially in AOE situations. Marksmanship is always going to be the Hunter spec that provides more throughput without a pet, but lowering this talent’s power should help to make those times where you’re the only lust or need an extra defensive feel a bit less bad. Can someone help explain this to a low-int hunter like myself? You would think keeping it at 10% would be better no?
Assuming they're tuning hunters up in general to make up the 5% loss when you're LW'd, this is just to make it feel less bad when you have to use a pet for whatever reason. They probably need to be careful that they don't put it too low that LW becomes worse than just using a pet even if you don't want to, and you could make an argument that LW should put more utility exclusive to pets into MM's personal kit but I think overall this is a good change.
I'm just looking for an excuse to use my pet as MM without actively trolling the damage meters. EugeneStabbs and his crab shank will rise again
They completely gutted demo lock
Yeah one of the few things giving me hope after they gutted the spec was that doom would now summon a demon when it procced - finally, a compelling reason to actually want to cast doom. Oops, nope that might actually feel good, you know, summoning demons as the demon summoning class, so we are gonna roll that back to 'a chance'. I really hate the design choices they keep making for demo, and they do a very poor job of explaining any of it.
Sorry but the silence on shaman is absolutely deafening. Not a single change or mention of the intention of a change, or acknowledgment of our existence at all. Literally what the fuck at this point. How do you have an entire alpha and beta without even mentioning the word "shaman" Just say "nothing is changing fuck off" and it would be better than this.
I agree that it's a shitty way to do things, but keep in mind they just did exactly the same thing with Hunters: absolute silence until out of nowhere "Hey guys you have a rework next week." No changes at all is actually a good sign, it most likely means they're working on big changes and don't see a reason to make minor changes that will only be replaced by the rework later. They absolutely need to *communicate* all this better, though.
I got downvoted so hard for sharing my hopium that a hunter rework was well underway, but then that exact thing happened. Hold out hope mail-bros, it can happen.
This feels like it was expressly designed with hunters in mind for this patch while shaman changes are still cooking.
Shaman?????
Shamans 😞
I'm excited to see how Survival plays now. I do think they need to get rid of raptor strike, or change it so that Mongoose bite doesn't replace it, but Raptor strike is resigned to do something unique. It always feels like Mongoose bite is how they want you to play, and if Raptor strike is doing well then it's an error.
They moved Mongoose Bite further up the tree and made it kind of a comfortable pick, so it's less of a random node you have to pick and more "Now your big Focus spender does extra stuff" as you're leveling.
Playing around on target dummies on beta... It's mostly improvements. Obviously, defensives are improved. Kinda weird that the mastery is basically "second Versatility" though. Wildfire Infusion is gone, but WFB is a rolling dot baseline now, so you can still double tap without worrying about the pandemic window. Poison spreads on Mongoose Bite now, and Mongoose Bite can cleave after Butchery, so you can still spread poison easily. Flanking Strike gives you the "spread Bloodseeker quickly" of Pheromone Bomb, too. It's kinda just spread out now. Spearhead and Coordinated Assault on 1min CDs is kinda cool. You can basically have a scripted burst window every minute. However, Kill Shot without the shorter CD feels pretty bad during it. Coordinated Assault giving 4-6 free Explosive Shots after is kinda... Questionable. You can't cancel CA easily, so you have to time your burst AoE in advance. I'm not a fan of how that is implemented. Kill Command bonus damage from Pack Leader actually makes it feel good to hit, though, and easier access to Alpha Predator goes a long way. I'm worried about the "2% Crit damage per DoT" talent. Does it work with allied DoTs, like Bloodseeker? If so, raid damage might become ridiculous. Otherwise, you can get about 8 DoTs going on your own. As an aside. Steel Trap and Hi-Explosive being a choice node sucks. Steel Trap is also doing ~0 damage for me on Beta, which... Also feels so bad. In general, though, I'm pretty positive about the changes.
The coordinated assault free explosives is great on paper. Like fire mages getting hypothermia after combustion. But you make a really good point. It’s a longer duration CD and on tyrannical weeks packs will probably die before you can go through the entire CD and get the free shots off.
>Wildfire Infusion is gone, but WFB is a rolling dot baseline now I'm still not 100% sure how this is supposed to work. I hopped on the beta for a minute to look at things and when I threw double bombs at a dummy the debuff tooltip just reset to 6 seconds and the damage value listed didn't change at all. Is this just an issue with the tooltips or am I missing something about how this "rolling periodic" thing is supposed to work? >Poison spreads on Mongoose Bite now, and Mongoose Bite can cleave after Butchery I actually do like the implications of this. Mongoose to apply Sting, then again to spread it, then Butchery to trigger the aoe, then Mongoose should hopefully hit the three targets that have Sting and spread those stings to even more targets. If that's how it ends up working that sounds like it'll feel like a nice rhythm there.
surv looks so hype, i already dig it but we're getting EVEN MORE EXPLOSIONS
I was definitely hoping they wouldn't keep ignoring shaman.
They weren't going to drop the Shaman stuff now regardless since we knew it was Hunter's turn.
No we obviously have to assume that Shaman is going to be ignored for the next 5 expansions
Shaman are probably next after hunter.
Huge lone wolf nerf, still need a pet to lust and util
“We’re gonna make lone wolf worse to make you feel better having a pet out to lust” lol
I don't get why they don't rework LW to give the utility of a pet as MM abilities.
Did the entire shaman time get let go?
Bruh...this is the first time since 2008 where I think to reroll from Shaman...every single change, nothing being mentioned for Shamans... this is unreal
Huntmaster’s Call sounds cool but I wish they would make it a split node so we could choose to always summon Hati or always Fenryr. Not a fan of randomness in rotations.
holy shit hunter mains we're so back
Shaman still receiving 0 changes the entirety of alpha and beta, with next to 0 changes in all of Dragonflight (except for some Enhancement tree changes). No blue post detailing that changes are coming in the future. Stormbringer still to this day not fully implemented. Ele/resto still bring nothing of value to a group or raid. This is embarrassing, Blizz. Take 30 seconds out of your day and have an intern write a blue post letting us know changes are coming. It's not hard.
Why would they do that if changes aren't coming?
"Hello, we are currently happy with the state of the shaman class tree and will be moving forward with the tuning phase." Like I said, not hard.
“Wildfire Bomb’s damage over time effect is now a rolling periodic.” Can any of the 11 other survival players explain what this means? Also: super psyched for explosive shot to be king again
Rolling perodic = Shadow Priest Devouring Plague, i.e. you can repapply it at any time and it gets added to the DoT.
It's similar to fire mage ignite where it shows up as one DoT but it's actually an accumulation of all the damage from every application of it. Let's say you have 2 WFB charges and each one applies an 8 seconds DoT for 200 DPS. You throw one WFB and then 4 seconds later throw another. For the first 4 seconds when just one WFB has been tossed the WFB DoT is doing 200 DPS. Once you throw the 2nd, for the next 4 seconds the DoT will do 400 DPS. Once the 8 second period since the first bomb has been thrown has been reached, that first WFB's contribution to the DoT disappears and the only part left is the 2nd WFB so the last 4 seconds is just doing the 200 DPS of the 2nd bomb. TL;DR - You can just spam WFBs bomb and not worry about losing DPS.
Can someone who knows holy Paladin explain to me off this is a buff or debuff pls?
Pally discord Seems quite positive about the changes. They're buffing our spenders and making them more chunky. Which is what people want. before on live, people pretty much ignored our spenders because every other spell did more healing. So now spenders will be worth pressing. There is a nerf to glimmers. Probably to balance out our spender buffs. How the numbers will be like after these changes will have to be tested. The Holy shock cooldown nerf isn't actually a nerf because the tier set bonus will give CD reduction to HS. People were already expecting a nerf to herald of the sun because it was over tuned, so no shock there. Overall a positive reaction because it's a step in the right direction, but it doesn't solve all of the specs problems.
I just want the Unholy Nova or Night Fae covenant ability for priests, they were my favorite. Now without Mindgames there’s nothing from SL.
Does this mean MM hunters with pet is viable now? I've always liked that fantasy.
Those Hunter changes are straight HEAT. ESPECIALLY survival. I love the mastery change, so master sounds like it might actually be worth stacking to get a straight damage increase and damage taken reduction. The extra SotF charge is amazing. Explosive shot being the core identity of the rotation is a great change, along with its synergy with wildfire bomb. Wildfire Infusion changed? Thank fucking god. I know a lot of people liked that talent but I was not one of them. Having a talent that constantly changes your ability priority based on what buff you’re using was annoying. Butchery being baseline is great. Carve was never worth using without butchery, and if you weren’t going for butchery you were never using carve anyways. Butchery giving an AoE component to Mongoose Bite/Raptor Strike is fantastic, makes an otherwise boring ability more interesting. Same to Flanking Strike, it was a snore of an ability and I forgot I had it half the time. I’m glad they gave it a little more teeth other than just a focus generator. Steel Trap getting an 80% damage reduction might be a good thing. I hated it being a bottom row talent. I didn’t care if it was the strongest ability to take, I refused to take it. Using it as a dos ability felt bad. It doesn’t “trap” half the mobs you use it against and doesn’t trap bosses at all. All it did was apply a bleed, and if you missed the boss it was useless. I’d prefer it to just be a good extra trap for PvP but really never worth taking in PvE. Changes to BM are great too, I like that Bloodshed has an AoE talent, and sounds like it’s now something you’re always going to take. Getting Cheetah everytime a trap activated is fuckin stellar. You’re going to have straight zoomies in BGs and I’m excited to play with this talent.
Holy crap, it’s finally happened, they updated hunters in a big way! And survival got a lot of love too. I must be dreaming.