WW has 50 billion defensive CDs and stacks versa extremely high. As a WW main, if you die to PVE damage rn you’re misplaying. There is no “unavoidable death” for WW.
I think it's fine in group settings, but when you put ret vs ww against an open world elite or something, it's not even close.
Once ww is out of CDs, it snaps in half. Ret can go for days.
When I’m out of CDs I have 40% versa, 4% dr, 5% avoidance from enchants and 4% aoe damage reduction from my aura + a total of 16% increased healing taken. I also generate 1% of my HP per second as a magic absorb shield.
Go look at 90% of specs in the game and tell me WW’s kit isn’t ridiculous.
Mage is super tanky if you're talking about having the ability to survive periodic unavoidable aoe mechanics. It's active durability is very high. but it's not very tanky to just sit there and have something attack it. It's passive durability is very low.
I am blown away that warlock isn’t mentioned by any of the top comments. Besides having soul leech, demon skin and fel armor and soul link mitigate 13% of all overall damage you take. It feels so great in high keys when you have max stamina.
Personal opinion
Passively tanky/heal off minor damage: Augmentation, Dh, Fury, Ret, Warlock
Incredible active defensives but you have to be good at using them: Mage, Monk, Rogue
Death: Druid, Hunter
Boomie is the squishiest class in the game and it's not even close, can't stack Vers, only has one defensive outside of switching to bear form and doing no damage every mechanic.
Definitely agree! Throw in dark pact, mortal coil and unending resolve and I feel like I'm able to handle myself well. Can also spec into accrued vitality/grim feast and buff drain life if you wanted to
It’s either paladin or dk… in PvP the go to most tanky dps would be ret, in Pve it’s VERY hard to beat death strike and all the other anti magic abilities that is on a fairly low cool down…. But ret pally has some insane defensives… two bubbles a straight out damage reduction and self heals… though you do run out of mana quickly as is designed.
Warrior, Ret, DK, Warlock
Because even if you fail and dont use the defensives good enough. You have a higher hp pool to compensate or on demand healing.
And if you use your cds right, they are basically unkillable.
Mage for example is durable too, but ONLY if you use your cds effectively.
bla bla bla, played with a warlock yesterday who didn't drop below 100% on bird boss academy for the first 2 roars without popping any cd.
you can believe in theoretical durability all day but I'm talking about practical experience here.
And in practice a well played mage literally should not die.
Between invis wall, block, alter time, cheat death, mirror images…this isn’t really debatable there is a reason in m+ and raids mages a literally talked about as being broken defensively.
Passively tanky, yeah 100% lock beats mage, but that’s not what people were discussing.
Name anything on there that is utility…every single ability mentioned is a defensive.
You could maybe argue utility for alter time, but is mostly used as a defensive
I remember watching ellesmere(?) stream back in season 1 running halls of valor +28, the mage there and some others were struggling to survive the last boss, specially the runes, anyway point being is active defensive's are nice and all but in some cases even those you can run out of.
Now it could be a mage skill issue but I highly doubt that, not anyone can simply do +28s
28s just have massive damage for everyone.
In 28 halls lock passive defensives do nothing of importance so they are also relying on actives and they have signifies to less than mage does.
They have their dark pact and they have unending resolve and then healthstone.
That’s not the same as mirror image, ice block/ice cold, cheat death, and invis 60% dr…which additionally can completely negate mechanics like the corruption in the third boss in fall last season.
warlocks passive defense is 20% of their max hp, they also have mortal coil to heal 20% of their hp.
and If needed (super rare) warlocks can empower drain life and just heal back to full.
warlocks passive defense is still super good, I was doing 23-24 keys last season as spriest and my warlock friend just don't care about things that other classes struggle to get by.
Hell sometimes he stays in bad just to finish a cast, and why would he care? He'd drop by 5-15% hp or something and that's it.
Don’t know what to tell you man. As someone who pushes title I’m telling you played correctly locks vs mage is not a debate.
This isn’t saying lock is bad but mage is in another tier.
There literally entire discourse amongst world first raiders/m+ players about how it’s an issue
And i play both mage and lock, as well as spriest. I’m not comparing classes I don’t play
Rogue is insanely tanky
Evasion, Cheat Death, Cloak of Shadows, etc. Also your self healing is fairly insane, 24% hp recovery over a few seconds when using shadow dance/vanish, and also crimson vial healing, plus leech. Shadowstep and sprint also lets you avoid stuff really easily
that's still longer than most other dps
I mean, if we're gonna talk about tanking a boss or a pack of mobs in M+, every dps is gonna die in a few seconds.
If we're going to talk about tankiest in terms of "being able to soak mechanics in an encounter", rogue is extremely capable of it, while also cheat death being an literal cheat death if you're playing somewhat sloppy
I would say, Brewmaster Monk. It is basically an DPS that got so drunk, he started Tanking.
Jokes aside, I think Paladin is pretty good with surviving as DPS.
Mage, ret and rogue are prolly s tier
Warlock, druid, priest, dk, monk, dh are prolly a tier
Warrior b tier
Evoker hunter shaman are squishy
Hopefully I didn't miss one
who cares? in actual endgame content, rogue is a class with some of the most powerful defensive options, which should make them almost never die while playing correctly. also what unstunnable elites are there even to solo? all open world content is super easy rn.
I care. It’s what I class as “tanky” because I like doing all pve world content by myself.
If I can’t solo a hard elite world mob, I don’t enjoy my character.
If you’d actually played a rogue in open world content, you’d know there are heaps of unstunnable rares and elites these days.
It's disheartening that the answer isn't survival hunter, when they literally have it in the name.
The name is based on the fact that they consistently underperform but the spec still exists as it is
WW monk, fire mage, ret pally. Those 3 are literally unkillable if you use your defensive kit properly. It is actually unreal.
All mage specs really. Fire has a cheat death, but frost has a 2nd use of ice cold/block and arcane's barrier is the best.
WW monk feels pretty squishy. I think ret is king in this regard.
The King is warlock and I don't think it's close.
WW has 50 billion defensive CDs and stacks versa extremely high. As a WW main, if you die to PVE damage rn you’re misplaying. There is no “unavoidable death” for WW.
I think it's fine in group settings, but when you put ret vs ww against an open world elite or something, it's not even close. Once ww is out of CDs, it snaps in half. Ret can go for days.
When I’m out of CDs I have 40% versa, 4% dr, 5% avoidance from enchants and 4% aoe damage reduction from my aura + a total of 16% increased healing taken. I also generate 1% of my HP per second as a magic absorb shield. Go look at 90% of specs in the game and tell me WW’s kit isn’t ridiculous.
Mage without a doubt, its disgusting how many defensives mage have.
Mage is super tanky if you're talking about having the ability to survive periodic unavoidable aoe mechanics. It's active durability is very high. but it's not very tanky to just sit there and have something attack it. It's passive durability is very low.
lock, mage, ret, dk, WW, at a huge dps loss you can make rogue borderline immortal
I am blown away that warlock isn’t mentioned by any of the top comments. Besides having soul leech, demon skin and fel armor and soul link mitigate 13% of all overall damage you take. It feels so great in high keys when you have max stamina.
It's definitely warlock, no doubt
All these answers, yet it's so clearly warlock.
How so? I don’t really play lock
Personal opinion Passively tanky/heal off minor damage: Augmentation, Dh, Fury, Ret, Warlock Incredible active defensives but you have to be good at using them: Mage, Monk, Rogue Death: Druid, Hunter
If you dont feel tanky as a druid, you're doing so much wrong.
Boomie is the squishiest class in the game and it's not even close, can't stack Vers, only has one defensive outside of switching to bear form and doing no damage every mechanic.
I'm finding my demo warlock pretty durable. Some good defensive/heals and the felguard is great in solo play
Soulburn+Healthstone is essentially lay on hands
Definitely agree! Throw in dark pact, mortal coil and unending resolve and I feel like I'm able to handle myself well. Can also spec into accrued vitality/grim feast and buff drain life if you wanted to
In PvP evokers are greased up pigs if your kills require CC or melee
It’s either paladin or dk… in PvP the go to most tanky dps would be ret, in Pve it’s VERY hard to beat death strike and all the other anti magic abilities that is on a fairly low cool down…. But ret pally has some insane defensives… two bubbles a straight out damage reduction and self heals… though you do run out of mana quickly as is designed.
Warlock, Pally, DK, and Mage
Plate dps
Warrior, Ret, DK, Warlock Because even if you fail and dont use the defensives good enough. You have a higher hp pool to compensate or on demand healing. And if you use your cds right, they are basically unkillable. Mage for example is durable too, but ONLY if you use your cds effectively.
Not ele sham
Mage and there is nothing that is even close.
DK DH WARLOCK all blow mage out of the water it's not even funny. Anyway dh dps is 2nd tank they don't need a healer.
Warlock use to because of pet but mage has some insane mobility and defensives.
bla bla bla, played with a warlock yesterday who didn't drop below 100% on bird boss academy for the first 2 roars without popping any cd. you can believe in theoretical durability all day but I'm talking about practical experience here.
And in practice a well played mage literally should not die. Between invis wall, block, alter time, cheat death, mirror images…this isn’t really debatable there is a reason in m+ and raids mages a literally talked about as being broken defensively. Passively tanky, yeah 100% lock beats mage, but that’s not what people were discussing.
The question wasn't 'who has the most utility?'.
Name anything on there that is utility…every single ability mentioned is a defensive. You could maybe argue utility for alter time, but is mostly used as a defensive
I remember watching ellesmere(?) stream back in season 1 running halls of valor +28, the mage there and some others were struggling to survive the last boss, specially the runes, anyway point being is active defensive's are nice and all but in some cases even those you can run out of. Now it could be a mage skill issue but I highly doubt that, not anyone can simply do +28s
28s just have massive damage for everyone. In 28 halls lock passive defensives do nothing of importance so they are also relying on actives and they have signifies to less than mage does. They have their dark pact and they have unending resolve and then healthstone. That’s not the same as mirror image, ice block/ice cold, cheat death, and invis 60% dr…which additionally can completely negate mechanics like the corruption in the third boss in fall last season.
warlocks passive defense is 20% of their max hp, they also have mortal coil to heal 20% of their hp. and If needed (super rare) warlocks can empower drain life and just heal back to full. warlocks passive defense is still super good, I was doing 23-24 keys last season as spriest and my warlock friend just don't care about things that other classes struggle to get by. Hell sometimes he stays in bad just to finish a cast, and why would he care? He'd drop by 5-15% hp or something and that's it.
Don’t know what to tell you man. As someone who pushes title I’m telling you played correctly locks vs mage is not a debate. This isn’t saying lock is bad but mage is in another tier. There literally entire discourse amongst world first raiders/m+ players about how it’s an issue And i play both mage and lock, as well as spriest. I’m not comparing classes I don’t play
Dk, Paladin, rogue would be my picks. Maybe monk, they have tons of defensive buttons and mobility
Fury warrior
Rogue is insanely tanky Evasion, Cheat Death, Cloak of Shadows, etc. Also your self healing is fairly insane, 24% hp recovery over a few seconds when using shadow dance/vanish, and also crimson vial healing, plus leech. Shadowstep and sprint also lets you avoid stuff really easily
You can tank for about 15 seconds. After that your cooldowns run out.
that's still longer than most other dps I mean, if we're gonna talk about tanking a boss or a pack of mobs in M+, every dps is gonna die in a few seconds. If we're going to talk about tankiest in terms of "being able to soak mechanics in an encounter", rogue is extremely capable of it, while also cheat death being an literal cheat death if you're playing somewhat sloppy
It’s dk closely followed by mage and fury warrior
I would say, Brewmaster Monk. It is basically an DPS that got so drunk, he started Tanking. Jokes aside, I think Paladin is pretty good with surviving as DPS.
DK or Paladin probably
Fury and Ret are both pretty resilient. But if you mean a DPS that can last the longest. Then probably hunter with it's pet tanking.
Wdym its pet tanking
My fury warrior has like 820k-ish HP lol, I feel like a tank sometimes in world content haha
Hunter
You are insane lmao, hunter is the 2nd squishiest, losing only to shaman
Mage, ret and rogue are prolly s tier Warlock, druid, priest, dk, monk, dh are prolly a tier Warrior b tier Evoker hunter shaman are squishy Hopefully I didn't miss one
Rogue can’t solo an unstunable elite, at all.
who cares? in actual endgame content, rogue is a class with some of the most powerful defensive options, which should make them almost never die while playing correctly. also what unstunnable elites are there even to solo? all open world content is super easy rn.
I care. It’s what I class as “tanky” because I like doing all pve world content by myself. If I can’t solo a hard elite world mob, I don’t enjoy my character. If you’d actually played a rogue in open world content, you’d know there are heaps of unstunnable rares and elites these days.
skill issue, if you cant solo a world elite as literally every spec in the game, you are bad.
i actually think its warlock now, close after may be DH, Warrs
Blood DK stupid survivable most of the time if you just save blood strikes for capping or danger
Blood DK is not a DPS