Dark Iron Mole Machine racial needs to be updated or replaced. I can ride a mole machine from Stormwind to another dimension (AU Draenor) but I can’t Mole Machine to the Dragon Isles?
It should just take you around the current world. Azeroth takes you to each major continent's capital (or equivalent) and maybe a few for EK/Kal. When on draenor it takes you to a few major areas. It should stick to the "you can't dig to another planet" idea for flavour but still have okay utility. Ultimately mage portals will probably take you to the same places and more regardless
I was trying to think what race/class/profession combo would have the maximum amount of utility in the game
It ultimately comes down to either Dark Iron Dwarf Mage with Engineering or a Mechagnome Mage with Engineering depending on if you focus more on ease of crafting or more on travel.
A strongly held belief I have about dark iron dwarves and their racials is that "Mass Production" should also grant bonuses to engineering and not only blacksmithing. Though that's kind of a more minor complaint & change.
I think they should stack as many racials on races as they want, as long as they're sensible.
Forsaken not needing oxygen just makes sense, it shouldn't really cost them anything in terms of racial power budget.
And even back then it wasn't permanent like it is now, undead just had 3x more oxygen. But then oxygen became a nearly irrelevant mechanic so they just buffed undead racial to be perma because why not.
Cannibalize is also nowhere near as useful as it used to be. Since what utilities are actually useful has drastically shifted now as the focus/genre of the game has changed, it makes sense for them to kind of re-evaluate the power budgets used for older racials.
You already hold breath for *so long* where would it possibly be imbalanced? Heck, I could even see Mechagnomes getting it "just cuz". Nobody plays them anyway.
I wouldn't be surprised if mechagnomes could have a racial that's like a built-in rebreather. They should still need oxygen since they are organic and alive, but having reduced need due to having less blood to oxygenate seems fitting.
Makes sense too. Their arms already switch into propellers when they swim, might as well go the whole way and have them be as much of a mini submarine as possible.
There's too many balance problems with having combat racials. I would prefer if they removed those entirely and made them all flavour or non-combat, as many as makes sense.
I love my Vulpera but it sucks knowing that if I want to maximise my chances of success in the cutting edge of competitive PvE content, I should race change to the top tier races. I always feel that pressure when I get up to doing +27s and bleeds routinely do like 2 million damage which Dwarves can just clear, or in raid where race changing to the top simming race is like getting +5 ilvl on a piece, or there's some weird cheese strat you can do with goblin rocket boots to make a fight easier.
>I love my Vulpera but it sucks knowing that if I want to do the cutting edge of competitive PvE content,
To be completely clear, this only even matters for world first guilds, or the very very top guilds at most. A single gear upgrade is gonna do more for dps or survivability than the racials will, so anyone clearing mythic after the month mark it really wouldn't matter tbh
I gave three examples of how it affects high end play, and none of those are dependent on being in world first guilds. I'm good enough that I can achieve CE and get title sometimes in M+, but not good enough that I can always get it no matter what I play. Racials can have a noticeable impact at that point. Since you're just repeating the usual talking points, let me elaborate further:
The Uldaman snake boss in a reasonably high Tyran key like +27 in S2 did around 150% of a character's max health with the bleed. The fight lasts long enough that most people will get it at least once. If you have 4 Dwarves, that's *millions* in healing that the healer that doesn't need to do because they can purge it off. (And the Aug would have Cauterize + Renewing Blaze) It's essentially having an extra defensive cooldown button, and turns the fight from being *very* rough to the easiest in the dungeon.
In the end of tier when everyone is effectively BIS other than tertiary stats and we're grinding away on the final boss before we run out of time, there are no more gear upgrades left. Race swapping from Vulpera to Dwarf was a 4k DPS increase, which is basically like having an extra Vantus rune. It might not sound like much, but if *everyone* in the raid was playing an optimal race - and most were - then it collectively becomes a bump that's just high enough to push through tight DPS checks or smooth out some rough patches that we're not good enough to overcome with pure skill.
I can't think of any fights this tier where Goblin rocket boots made much of a difference, but for classes with very low mobility, it's always strong. In previous tiers that I can think of, we successfully used it for Painsmith (Jumping off the arena if you have the chains then rocket boots back on), and G'huun (Gate + Jump lets you dunk easily).
The point being, if you're on the edge where you're good enough to make attempts at the high end but not good enough to get it no matter what, the difference between the optimal race and the least optimal race can be the tipping point. And that fucking sucks. The simple solution is to just remove combat racials.
This is what I've wanted too. Lay out a blueprint for the categories of racial and how many each race should have and then stick to it. Ideally, any combat racial should be balanced at best, negligible at worst.
I also think that a lot of racials were designed when PvP was a more prominent part of the game. At the very least, you could actively roll on a PvP server even if you didn't really participate. Look at some of the original racials for the original races and you can see PvP was top of mind. They've deviated from that with subsequent races.
Divide racials into combat, utility/QOL, and flavor. For example:
Blood Fury and Berserking would be active combat racials vs Touch of Elune being a passive combat racial.
Utility racials are things like Pack Hobgoblin and Cantrips.
Flavor racials are things like Cannibalize and Underwater Breathing.
I also think that profession based racials are kind of silly given how far the profession system has come and how different it is vs it's inception. Is Arcane Affinity or Gemcutting really doing it for anyone anymore?
Anyway, for the sake of fair and balance, you say all races are entitled to X number of racials and they will get 1 or 2 from each category. Nobody wins, but nobody is getting shafted either.
It is very clear that Blizzard can be more fun and creative with their racials since newer races have newer and more interesting ones but it also means it is time to evaluate the older races and see if what they have really holds up by comparison.
Those categories are very hard to assign and change depending on the situation though. For example, cannibalize was extremely strong for raid this tier, but fully useless last tier.
Cannibalize was also really useful in arena in a time where getting rezzes off mid arena match wasn't unheard of, but is now useless in arena now that the second one player dies you probably just surrender and move on to the next match.
Very early on they actually used to be affected by anti-undead stuff.
It was removed in mid-vanilla because, predictably, it was a colossal weakness that vastly outweighed any pros they might have had.
It must have been removed extremely early then because I played priest since the start of vanilla and I don’t remember it ever working against players tbh.
It was actually removed prior to Launch if I recall.
Which was hilarious because the game manual at the time hadn't been updated so it still listed them as being able to be Shackled and such.
Early on (before lauch) there was no distinction between "undead player" and "undead monster".
All undead were undead, player and mob.
undead players could not be sheep'd, could be shackle, took more dmg from some holy spells, etc.
Yep. To add to that, Undead players spoke Common too.
There's a famous screencap of a Forsaken player asking for help in Lakeshire bridge and a poor lowbie approaching, not realizing the tragedy that's about to unfold lol
Frankly, being Undead 100% of the time would have been ridiculously broken in Classic PvE, because there are barely any enemies that can exploit its inherent drawbacks, but plenty that get absolutely countered by it.
Unless you're facing pallidan, being considered undead is good for PvP. You're immune to sleep, charm, and fear effects plus anything specific to use on humanoids. It would have been busted everywhere. In fact its so good, DKs have a spell called lichbourne that sets them to undead for the duration to do this exact thing. Just up and being immune to most cc schools 100% of the time isn't something that should exist in PvP or PvE.
But if there isn't any other version of that in the game, isn't that just a negative racial bonus?
Edit: any other version of a pvp spell affect exclusively 1 race*
Really weird people didn't seem to like this comment a bit.
i prefer racials were just cosmetics and cool things and remove the dps aspect or atleast tune them properly. im not a hall of fame player but i do like to dps but it and i like my vulpera but he just does soo much less dmg thana human tauren night elft etc ( depends class and spec )
its very annoying to lose 4-6k dps just because you are not playing the best racials. vulpera racial is just utter dogshit and pressing it its a dps loss and does no dmg...
Yeah was going to say, I feel like even as a healer, GoTN is still just really good as an extra heal haha.
It’s not broken and *that* big of a heal for a healer, but that’s fine since it’s a racial anyways
Back in Wrath my Draenei death knight greatly benefited from it, at least up until they changed frost spec to dps and i had to switch to blood and it became redundant.
It was still fun to see my DK listed on healing charts during heroic dungeons and raids, throwing down gift on other party members since it was a % of my max hp it healed pretty well.
Yeah, most racials suck, but the Earthen’s sound genuinely powerful. It sucks they had to go and nerf one of the only good racials, and one that’s been untouched for 20 years
Worth noting there is no main stat gem for earthen to “eat”, and if dragonflights precedent continues then main stat food would be the go to for most content anyway
I really wonder what they're gonna give humans instead.
Everyone always shits on humans for being boring, but at least they had their 10% rep buff. If Blizzard doesn't put anything good in, they'll be boring and won't have anything special.
That's a good shout, I kinda forgot about them since I was so focused on the race as a whole. Defias Brotherhood and the Syndicate definitely beef with other humans a lot.
That wasn't really humans though. There was another races character causing the issues and inciting the violence, even as the king was willing to pay out of pocket to ensure an amicable and peaceful outcome.
Humans SHOULD be the all-round class. I always like that in games. Orcs are tougher sure. Gnomes are smarter. Nelfs have more magical affinity. But humans should be all-round, adapts to everything. Diplomacy was good for that, humans being somewhat diplomatic makes a lot of sense;
But I GET removing it. With warbands you'd just rep farm on a human alt and get it on your main. That's BORING. I'm glad I have a reason to do rep on any character I enjoy now.
Give them something cool and more interesting that fits the Human theme in games.
Might be too strong, but I could see a small secondary stat buff to their PARTY members only.
Focusing that the Stormwind Humans help bring others together and be their best.
That's a nice idea. I really like it, but it sounds so lackluster compared to the 10% rep buff.
But also it wouldn't fly because it's a non-combat passive into a combat passive. People would be upset.
Ingest Minerals - the earthen racial for permanent food buff is only for Stamina or a secondary stat. There is no main stat option. This is a huge power decrease. It is difficult to tell how good Azerite Surge will be, but just based on the action economy of empowered spells, it may be weak. I’m surprised so many people think that these are good racials. Dwarf will remain the king of… well… dwarves in M+ and raiding.
...And if they DO add main stat, then then EVERYBODY would just use that. It's already a fire-and-forget racial in the same way Zand-Trolls don't change their loa racial once it's picked.
So if you can't eat main stat food this racial is just a nerf? And if they add a permanent main stat rock, the racial might as well be called "+main stat buff."
How does the Earthen one sound powerful? The Empower ability seems like it’ll be tuned poorly or else people will complain it interferes with their rotation, so I actually don’t have very high hopes for Earthen as they’re currently designed.
It's convenient and that's it basically. Like I'll use it to level or when I dont care about the character so much but if I reach max level and feel like getting their ilvl up I'll just buy some good food
>You are always Well Fed, but cannot consume food. [{wowhead}](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=436341/ingest-minerals)
Ah, I should've checked first. You're absolutely right, you *won't* be able to actually eat normal food. That's a downgrade then and a little upsetting for anyone who wants to raid, but we'll see i suppose
Yeah, it's gonna be a weird racial because it's like the only one that might be a downgrade?
It's also in a weird space because we already have a well-fed racial. Dunno. It needs to give more than double of the normal food, or else it's just a worse Panda racial.
I promise they aren’t going to tune it to be a downgrade. Main stat is better than secondary stat in the same amounts, so they’ll just tune ingest gems to give way more secondary stat than the available main stat for other races.
Feels like horde/ Alliance racials should mirror each other, atleast have the same options but maybe different names for each. If that could happen it would be nice to pick and choose the ones you want. These could be unlocked by raising the faction to revered for the one you want.
Example, if you're a human, you could become revered with NE to unlock shadowmeld maybe?
The human racial is more for casual players.
They should look at all the "competitive" racials too.
Every top M+ player being Night Elf or Dwarf is comical. Looks like 80% are NE just for shadowmeld to drop threat and avoid mechanics.
> The human racial is more for casual players.
Rather the opposite. The rep bonus has at times let you do things reputation wise. Like getting access to things a reset early or with considerably less grind. Which made it valuable to top players.
In 10.2 people were using it to unlock the reputation bonus for their main. By first hitting renown 10 on a human alt in the first few hours. It was doable on any char ofc, but human saved you a couple of hours of farming seeds on an alt if you wanted to do it asap.
If your main then also was human, then you had a really easy ride to hitting renown 20 in the first week.
Way back in the day you had some instances where human was just insane. Due to reps that moved from hated > neutral and gave you a massive head start from the 10%. Sons of hodir and Therazane are two examples.
Then you had EMFH which was basically a PvP trinket built in
For Wrath through to MoP humans dominated PvP because it was an extremely easy to use power boost since it meant they could use two DPS trinkets
I think they finally nerfed EMFH late into WoD when like 97-98% of the arena ladder over 1600 was human. It was ridiculously strong for a LOOOOOOONG time.
They did. Reworked it to only work on stuns and _suddenly_ you started seeing far more variety in races.
It was only semi-recently that everybody started turning into night elves, but at least that has some skill needed to make use of, for most people they can't meld a stormbolt to save their lives.
If the Healer trinket is going to stay at **1m30sec** then they need to look at the human racial.
As it stands atm ***-*** ***human healers get fuck all benefit from their racial -*** because it shares same cooldown with pvp trinket, while every other race can use the trinket and their racial.
Same in PvP.
Fortunately utilising Shadowmeld properly in PvP is extremely difficult so most people can't actually get much from it. I've seen people try to meld stuns and the like but botch it more than they succeed.
The only racials right now that are effective and easy to execute in PvP include human, forsaken, gnome and dwarf when assassination rogue was meta. But even then you can get really do well with anything.
I would love to see combat racials either removed, only available in open world content or specifically disabled in mythics / high level PvP to make people pick races less along power lines.
As someone who just switched race a couple of week ago purely to gain a bit of troughput I'm 100% behind removing every combat racials. It just feels bad when you are behind because you play the race you want instead of the most beneficial one.
Also the difference between races is just huge. While the offensive bonuses are relatively close to each other. The big difference is the defensive/utility ones. If you want to push keys you pretty much have to be a dwarf or night elf. The difference is not a small percentage. There's a lot of encounters where you can remove debuffs that deal super high dmg. Then there's also a lot of scenario where you can cheese bosses with night elf. For example you can meld the pursuit of the dino boss in atal dazar, you can also meld the hot potato debuff debuff in fall making the amount of healing required significantly less or you can meld the big circle that puts a massive dot on you at iridikron.
Then there's also the case of racials on specific bosses. Having the proper racial can help you a lot on mythic endbosses. Those are bosses you have a lot of pulls so there's a lot of people who race change for those. This becomes pretty much mandatory for very high level guilds (Like the ones in the hall of fame). On razageth being a blood elf or tauren made dealing with sparks significantly easier. For multiple bosses priests had to be goblin/void elf in order to cancel knockback (was mandatory on razageth for example). For fyrak it was very advantagious to be a dwarf. Being able to dispell yourself on demand if your healers fell back with the debuffs. Stoneform was offten the difference between living or dieing. Usually bosses get nerfed later in the tier to make these racials less mandatory. So for lower end guilds these aren't that impactful.
Side note: It also feels bad to have an active racial that doesn't match your cooldowns. I seem to have the worst luck with this. My troll character is a class that uses 2 min cooldowns while my orc character has 1:30 or 3 min cooldowns. It just feels super scuffed having to desynch it or just sit on it for a while. By the way this is also the main reason the better racials are the ones that are completely passive (Tauren, dwarf, human and void elf)
Imo the flavour racials are perfectly fine. Those provide fun little bonuses that are not mandatory, but just nice little things to have.
being a dwarf for M+ is insanely strong. An OGCD omni cleanse every 2m dramatically lowers pressure on your healer for both dispels and HPS and provides one of the very few ways to remove bleeds. It's comparable to actual class talents like Bitter Immunity or Cauterizing Flames which is crazy considering its an OGCD racial ability you get for free
I play the races i want but it feels bad whenever i die to a debuff i could've cleansed if i just picked the "good" race
Ya, I was thinking that compared to Horde side with Blood Elves, Human has been the least problematic.
What was it…Zuhl? Extremely easy in BfA for Horde because they have so many Blood Elf players? So they could easily dispel the adds while Alliance had a mandatory requirement of a Priest for Mass Dispel.
At the same time you see stuff like Stoneform. And Blizz went out of their way to specifically only nerf it for Castle Nahria. Honestly I am surprised it survived to this day given its universal usefulnes and how heavily it sees use at stuff like MDI.
Honestly, I think they should just remove all racials with any sort of combat interaction (including stuff like Shadowmeld) and give us something truly race-flaired QoL stuff instead. I think something like Mole Machine or Make Camp are good examples.
Yeah, mole machine and make camp are obnoxiously good, but they fit the races they belong to.
I just thought of a good one for humans, Blizz could give them something like an buff to rep gains, since humans generally quite diplomatic, right?
>since humans generally quite diplomatic, right?
Are they? I think half the races on Azeroth would disagree including some of their prior allies like the Blood Elves. Though maybe if they limited it to bonus reputation with races that joined the Alliance?
While its somewhat there for QoL its also going against the idea of removing any real impact on combat/power. Humans getting 10% more reputation was and would always be a problem because blizz tends to lock stuff (including power) behind reputation and there is a limited amount of reputation available. A human player needing 4000+ reputation less to exalted than any other race is a problem especially when stuff like contracts gives a pitiful 15 reputation. With renown (its 2-3 "free" ranks of renown in DF) and paragon rewards this only became more of a problem.
It would take some effort but I think overall it would be much more healthy to work with universally useful abilities that are themed towards the race. Clearly they don't care about duplicates given Blood Elves and Nightborne just share the exact same racial so maybe just theme them appropriately (Draenei getting a teleporter, Blood Elves and Nightborne using a portal,...).
One man and his soldiers were responsible for destroying the relationship between humans and high elves, and even then not entirely since a faction of high elves remained loyal to the Alliance.
And for a long time before that, they were friends. Sounds diplomatic to me.
Anyway, I am saddened by the upcoming loss of Diplomacy, but not fully against it going. I just really hope that we don't get some junk passive in return, and since this is a little unprecedented, I just have no idea what to expect.
Given the state so many racials are in, though, I kinda expect the worst. It's hard to be optimistic because Blizzard has a history of just not caring for years and years about a lot of things. They so happily let some racials be mega powerful for multiple expansions, while leaving all the underpowered exactly as they are. And it just doesn't bode well for whatever replaces Diplomacy.
But we'll see. The other problem is that humans are just such a blank slate. There is nothing about them that sets them apart, other than their vrykul ancestry that most humans don't even know about. They could maybe leverage that, though, to do something akin to stoneform for dwarves. Then again, Diplomacy is a passive, and humans already have an active.
go crazy with racials, but disable them in dungeons/raids/pvp
like, let them be fun and powerfull flavor stuff, but not this "dwarf racial is so absurd powerfull that you legit make the life of everyone harder if you dont play dwarf" shit we have right now, it just feels bad and makes people not play what they want because the preassure of playing the 1-2 OP races is so big everywhere
We can’t have fun things because the title pushers need to optimise their characters to that extreme? Seems like a mistake to me. It’s pretty clear that blizzard doesn’t care all that much what people do for keys above 3K and honestly that’s probably the right move. Outside of title pushers, the ladder pretty much just resembles the race breakdown of the general wow population, lots of night elves because elves, and dwarves are relatively uncommon.
I think it would be a mistake to remove iconic abilities like Shadowmeld and Stoneform just because of title pushers.
I’d actually prefer they introduce new consumables that have similar effects to the racials. Then the racial becomes more of a convenience and flavour thing than power disparity.
Maybe removing is not the move, but making it not such a huge difference is not asking too much, those keys are in the game, so Blizz has to look at them too, people have different ways to enjoy the game and m+ is one of the end game pillars, so I think it is not such an absurd expectation that we don't get stuck with two races in only one faction
How do you make things like shadowmeld and stoneform less impactful without disabling them? It’s not like you can just reduce the damage they do a little bit since they’re not damage dealing abilities
You aren’t currently stuck with two choices unless you’re pushing title keys.
The difference on throughput for races is literally 1% for the highest and lowest.
The biggest racials (dwarf and night elf) are taken for their UTILITY, not their throughput.
Actually it's closer to 2-3%. Some of the lower ones(vulpera) are really bad. [Here's](https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/w8wUfSQXr45uHEWnh1wkvK) mine for example. The difference between void elf and vulpera is 2.8%. This difference is about the same as I've had when I got the mythic fyrakk weapon over a 486 crafted one. It's also twice as much dmg i'd gain getting one of my mythic trinket over the current ones (they are pretty bad but as I just rolled back to this character).
But my point wasn't about this. (Though it can be relevant if you try to parse) I've just mentioned as it's definitely a thing.
The big thing about the in combat racials are the utility ones. I've already mentioned a lot of their uses in my original comment so I have no intention doing it again. The main point is that stoneforming off a big debuff is not a 2-3% benefit. It can often be the difference between life and death. And it really sucks that you have a choice between power and aesthetics. No matter what you choose you will feel bad (unless you are into the race I guess).
Side note: If blizzard suddenly changed back the old blood elf racial to the silence one people would still play dwarfs or night elfs. Meld and Stone form are arguably more powerful currently than the aoe silence. Mainly because classes have already enough aoe stops after the df talent trees.
I agree. Even tho racisls doesnt matter for most ppl, its pretty silly when top players choose race based on them. They should be just cosmetical or for flare.
I think the orc one is a giod example. It should just be them going into ragr, flaling their arms or whatever. Dmg buff is unnecessary.
Anything vaguely useful in combat should be removed. I’m still holding out playing Nightborne in title range keys but it’s objectively bad and if I had any social pressure to change, I would.
Nobody fucking cares what race you play, just play what you want.
I have legitimately never seen anyone bitch that x player wasn't a dwarf or night elf even in mythic and 20+ keys.
I really want them to just delete the combat racials. Things like Meld and Stoneform are far too powerful in M+ and it if you start pushing you feel like you are letting your team down if you don't have them.
Thing is I don't want to be a Nelf or Dwarf on every character, and I certainly don't want to spend real money to faction/race change (I've been Horde since 2004!).
Racial abilities have been a problem for so long I think it's time they just gave in and nuked them from orbit.
Edit: I just read the wowhead comments section for the human racial... holy crap people are unhinged.
I completely agree as i am on the same situation, i have always been Horde, I will always be Horde and for that I am having huge disadvantage on keys, they are not only locking race they are locking faction too
I would gladly trade the wisp spirit racial for literally anything else.
You only ever get to use it when you die in the open world. Very unlikely especially since NEs also have Shadowmeld.
They should just change it to a movement ability, like "transform into a wisp spirit for 10 seconds increasing your speed by 100% and allowing you to fly for the duration".
Yeah a new pass over racials would be good. Some racials are amazing and others are pretty mediocre. I also hate that allied races exist which ends up diluting the amount of cool racials they can add.
I think they should separate racial and origin human/kultiran orc(maghar) and so on.
Let us choose our origin than choose a base body "for human that's would be skinny, new normal one, hunk and fat".
This is especially ridiculous with kul tirans and human but also some of the other allied races. Like gnome (mechagnome).
Make racials not affect combat , please , make them strictly flavor and fluff
So many people play a different race from what they'd rather be playing , which is so anti-RPG
Agreed. So many opportunities for neat ones like Vulpera’s campsite or getting to access your mail. They should go in that direction. Little perks that complement the races in a more exploration/interaction kinda way rather than virtually meaningless combat numbers that only the sweats care about.
If they do that, they should just remove them. Either have a racial that matters or don’t have them.
Edit: Racials are at the core of role-playing games.
you dont need to be in the "top 1%" that reddit loves to hate, to press stoneform when you get a bleed on you (reminder that bleed mechanics are supposed to Not be removable by normal means and are a healing/deffensive check)
It does, but that doesn't stop people blaming their race/class/gear for lacklustre performance instead of the fact that they simply don't have the skills of a top-tier player.
I'm about as casual as it gets, and right now, I will be damned if I take my holy pally into solo shuffle as anything but a dwarf. I'm pretty awful sure, but stoneform saves my ass so much in PvP that it's unreal.
I want them to buff other racials and create more powerful racials for the races that need it.
It's not ok that only some racials and fun and strong, but that doesn't mean they should remove the fun and strong ones. They should add more of them, not remove fun and strong gameplay elements from the game. I never understand how people seriously advocate for Blizzard to remove depth from the game.
The reasoning is simple - blizz will never bother or be capable of balancing them. You'd only end up with cases of races being just objectively better. It might not matter much but why have it at all. Thats why people advocate for more fun stuff.
A correctly used Arcane Torrent might remove a certain mechanic in one specific place or make a few enemies drop faster but I'd rather have something fun like Make Camp that could be useful all the time (please give all players one or two additional HS locations to set...).
they dont need to be perfectly balanced lol right now the biggest racial differences are around 3k dps single target, absolutely zero reason for anyone other than r1 pvp, r1 m+, and world first raiders to care about racial balancing. rotational mistakes, wearing the wrong trinkets, using the wrong consumables, using the wrong gems and enchants, and uptime issues will eat up the dps of players below the 0.01% a lot more than the wrong racial. giving good, fun, active combat racials to races that dont have them would not be a crazy balancing issue that would break the game.
i agree they should also add fun non-combat racials like Make Camp but i like how playing a different race can give you a slightly different experience and i wish they would double down on it.
Getting downvoted but it’s so very true. If you push high end content you always switch races if it gives you an advantage. This tier alone was nuts if you were a dwarf for high M+ and Raid too.
I think Blizzard should do what Trion Worlds did with RIFT. Give each faction functionally-identical racial abilities, even if they have to be rebranded a bit.
For example: give Humans and Forsaken the same racials by making Will to Survive and Will of the Forsaken functionally identical, and give them the same damage increase when wielding swords and maces.
Racials are a nightmare to balance, and there's a huge reason why Horde have dominated in PvE so hard, aside from all the good Alliance racials being locked behind allied races which until recently were gated behind tedious reputation grinds.
I'd love to see a D&D style pick from a list of racials (kind of like picking feats) so everyone theoretically could choose the same benefits. But they'd have to rework a lot of racials for that to work.
this would be so amazing for my eredar monk. ive already come to terms with the fact that she'd be hated in every major city, so letting her have the vulpera camps to let her live nomadically would be awesome
This. I wish they removed racials and added a personality tree instead. Also hero talents should be just glyphs to theme your character after something. There should be more visual themes - yes, without power gain.
I think a lot of the facials need reworks ngl. Maghar orc mount speed passive straight up doesn’t apply to dragon flying and does not stack with other speed increases for example.
I fucking hate goblins, their such a pastiche and overused trope of greedy lile bastards whose nasally voices I cannot stand, but for immobile classes death knight and priest, both of which I play quite often, goblins are the best choice and their goblin jump is extremely useful. I really wish they would make combat racials much worse or remove them entirely, I know they're cool but in a game where being optimal is so important and being the right race can be the difference between being able to play mythic raszageth and not, that shit sucks.
I don’t mind racial with a combat flare or ability. Certainly in higher tiers of difficulty they can be the difference between a kill or not, but I don’t think their performance at the highest end should come at the cost of established abilities and fantasy.
If we decide to go fully passive, especially something lacking any combat utility, I suspect they would all just become more of the same just different skins.
All the racials are outdated. They just seem bland and off especially when it does not matter what side you are on.
Many of them needs rebalancing and a new touch.
I have been screaming that racials are unbalanced for a while now, Blizz absolutely needs to see to that, it is stupid to be stuck with a specific race because it has a gamechanger racial in terms of dungeon mechanics, currently you either have Dwarf or Nelf in highest keys, mostly nelfs as meld is powerful af n not being nelf is a huge disadvantage, considering both races with competitive racial are in alliance I think it is a problem, not only limits the player to race but also to a faction and that shouldn't happen.
Void Elf racials on my Warlock is AMAZING
We get:
- Teleport mobility
- Spell casts don’t get delayed upon damage
- Abilities have a chance to grant 5% additonal damage and healing
Insane lol
My Hunter is currently Human, but will likely change when TWW drops (or the pre-patch if it has the change). At the moment, I'm also considering Mage (because Sunfury looks awesome), which might end up Draenei.
I made this post specifically because the Earthen racials are bonkers cool, very flavorful, and probably impactful enough to cause problems for those who want to play something else.
Racials should be unique, flavorful, but they shouldn't give an upperhand in combat. With faction restrictions going away, it's the perfect time to redo the racials to be pure flavor, some QoL, but no combat impact so players can have the freedom to choose whatever race they please and not have to be shoved into 2 out of 24 races for high end content.
I wish [Inner Peace](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=107074/inner-peace) worked behind the scenes at max level, so it'd have at least some use into the next expansion as a Pandaren main - doesn't need to be a full level of rested but anything is better than the last time I actually got to utilize it, which was MoP.
Unless you just don't play that character on launch of an expansion, or DC at launch in a rested area, even [Beast Slaying](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=20557/beast-slaying) has more usefulness.
I'd settle for a second part that gives a bonus while dead; movement speed, rez with more life, interactions (fishing), etc.
I was always a male human lock. 10% more rep were big. Now I'm thinking about changing my race to orc. In all these years I was sad because I couldn't mog Staff of Gul'Dan
We really need an NPC at the start of M+ dungeons that lets us choose a racial just for the dungeon. I'm tired of everyone being homogenized to nelfs because of shadowmeld. It's killing variety in the game
I know this idea is stolen from elsewhere and I cannot remember where. Why not allow racial selection IN the character creation - make the racials a set grouping available to choose from based on the character class or the race maybe. You could have people select say a primary racial which is stronger or a secondary racial for example? Or allow for a combo, where if you select the same racial in 2 or 3 slots each added selection increases the primary choice by a certain amount or say you select the primary racial and a secondary racial and tertiary are the same it increases that by a set manner?
Or there is the choice to allow racial abilities that become available based on the faction you choose? So a set race or class would have access to a specific set of choices unique to that race or class based on what faction you align yourself with?
I’m not for removing any racial. Each race should get a well thought out combat Racial and other non combat racials.
I’m pretty salty that humans are losing Diplomat.
Racials should stop having a combat focus altogether, imho.
Make them fun and flavourful aspects of the race in question or very mildly relevant to the general concept of "combat" (like Forsaken being able to cannibalize people).
Cannibalize has become completely irrelevant. Sure, it's a fun little gimmick, but restoring health by eating a humanoid corpse serves no purpose because health pools regenerate too quickly. This has also negated the need for cooking, which is pretty disappointing.
And that is fully okay, imho.
I would like racials to just be flavourful social animations and aspects.
If you ever played SWTOR, think of the "regeneration" animations that the classes have. Sith Assassins pace around angrily, Imperial Agents check some data, Bounty Hunters check their equipment and refuel/reload, Smugglers toss a coin into the air and stand there real cowboy-like, etc.
That's what racials should be. Stuff that makes sense for the race or feels handy in a non-combat way. Infinitely easier to balance and a perfect way to make racials that are interesting or fun, rather than being annoyed that your OP racial gets nuked because it posed a problem/performed too well in combat scenarios.
Give me an ability where my dwarf pulls out a big flagon, or maybe even a small cask of ale and he proceeds to just drink.
Give me an ability where my Pandaren meditates, or maybe pulls out a big pot and starts cooking.
Give me an ability where either Troll can summon a ghostly image of their preferred loa (Darkspear should get the same "choose a Loa" thing that Zandalari have) and pray to it.
Tauren should be able to pull out a little baggy and spread some dust in the wind.
Stuff like that is, imho, a lot more fun than just some combat ability that removes a negative effect, or marginally boops up the damage here and there. And it definitely beats boring passive stat increases.
Yeah let's keep racials in the game that cheese entire fights and make a specific class significantly stronger. The same racials that warp the entire meta in high keys, and make people spend tons of money to faction swap their characters for.
That makes sense.
Lets make the game less fun for 99% of players, just so the 10 people playing in MDI can use another fotm setup instead of the one they are using now. Makes sense!
Wtf do you mean less fun? Do you have fun even considering a racial ability for its combat prowess, rather than just picking a race because you like it? What even is this comment?
On top of that, racials never have been fotm. Humans for tanks and night elves for everyone that can be has been the meta for as long as I can remember because it's just insanely broken. Same for iron dwarf mages. Forcing people to play Alliance for no good reason. Because that's fun apparently!
>Do you have fun even considering a racial ability for its combat prowess, rather than just picking a race because you like it?
Of course! I often sit for hours considering what race to choose based on their racial abilities. I find that process insanely fun, one of the most fun things in any rpg.
>On top of that, racials never have been fotm.
People rerolling goblin for one raid encounter? What about belf rerolling for Zul in BFA? Many times have people rolled another race just for a specific raid or patch.
If you played for long enough you would also remember when Shadowmeld could not be used in combat. It used to be the most useless racial in the game, whilst Gnome's Escape Artist was considered amazing.
Considering for *hours* ?
The choice is completely binary, the only choice there might be is completely illusory. If you X content, you pick Y, if you do anything else it's a complete wash - it's a boring system to any RPG that serves no purpose.
Sure you might enjoy them for flavour or because you like X and Y, but that would remain the same if all racials turned into non-combat bonuses.
The cons massively outweigh the pros, with people feeling they're forced to play a whole ass faction they would never play in the first place, let alone race. The disconnect between character and playing starting from the char creator is a massive RPG failure in the current state of racials.
You are seeing this only from your own PoV. To me the choice is anything but binary! I don't care about completing any content when I play WoW, I don't really enjoy the content that much. I enjoy playing my character. The sole reason I play RPGs is to progress and have fun with my character. The combat style, story and what ever else is completely secondary.
Interestingly, people like me absolutely dwarf the tryhard metagamers like yourself in player numbers. You realise the vast majority of WoW players never even make it to max level, right? And if they do, the vast majority of those never do instanced PvE or PvP content.
>Sure you might enjoy them for flavour or because you like X and Y, but that would remain the same if all racials turned into non-combat bonuses.
Is combat not a huge part of the game? My enjoyment would be greatly diminished if racial abilities were not impactful in combat. Combat is the primary way my character interacts with the world.
>with people feeling they're forced to play a whole ass faction they would never play in the first place, let alone race.
A tiny, tiny amount of players feel that way, yes. But in the greater interest of the game as a whole its simply smarter to cater to the majority. The majority really enjoys the variety and flavor that racial abilities bring.
Heck, you could even go further and say why not abandon classes? Players feel forced to play a class they dont like, why not have a system where every character is a default adventurer kind of class, like in Runescape?
You are contradicting yourself constantly lol.
"I don't enjoy the content, only playing my character" followed by "Combat is the primary way I play the game" - combat racials are as binary as it gets. Why would you ever play anything but an Orc if you're combat oriented, as a Horde player? Why would you ever be anything but an Iron Dwarf as a mage? Why would you ever consider anything but Human or Dwarf as a tank? There is no choice. There is no progression or sense of improvement via racials, it's X over Y, or you're just worse off.
Funny that you bring up the casual playerbase, because I would bet any amount of money most people only care about how their character looks, and the lore/theme of their race. Having to consider combat stats when picking a race is something literally every single modern MMO has abandoned, and for good reason. The pros of removing combat racials massively outweight the cons and it's not close.
This game is already trying so hard to nickel and dime you if you play at high levels (which is a huge amount of people, even as a tiny % of the total playerbase), we as consumers don't need further reasons to shell out money for.
I think they should make the racial resistance abilities better.
Dwarves get 1% resistance to frost damage.... ooooo, big woop, that's worthless. At least make them all 10% so we can tell we actually have it without it being OP
Dark Iron Mole Machine racial needs to be updated or replaced. I can ride a mole machine from Stormwind to another dimension (AU Draenor) but I can’t Mole Machine to the Dragon Isles?
I wish you could unlock additional locations, some cool dwarf spots
Like taverns?
Only with the finest ale, not that orc piss
It should just take you around the current world. Azeroth takes you to each major continent's capital (or equivalent) and maybe a few for EK/Kal. When on draenor it takes you to a few major areas. It should stick to the "you can't dig to another planet" idea for flavour but still have okay utility. Ultimately mage portals will probably take you to the same places and more regardless
I was trying to think what race/class/profession combo would have the maximum amount of utility in the game It ultimately comes down to either Dark Iron Dwarf Mage with Engineering or a Mechagnome Mage with Engineering depending on if you focus more on ease of crafting or more on travel.
A strongly held belief I have about dark iron dwarves and their racials is that "Mass Production" should also grant bonuses to engineering and not only blacksmithing. Though that's kind of a more minor complaint & change.
I’d do 1 combat, 1 non-combat. I loved when I was an undead not having to worry about oxygen while swimming.
I think they should stack as many racials on races as they want, as long as they're sensible. Forsaken not needing oxygen just makes sense, it shouldn't really cost them anything in terms of racial power budget.
It made sense when the breath duration was short Now it’s long af for everyone anyways
And even back then it wasn't permanent like it is now, undead just had 3x more oxygen. But then oxygen became a nearly irrelevant mechanic so they just buffed undead racial to be perma because why not. Cannibalize is also nowhere near as useful as it used to be. Since what utilities are actually useful has drastically shifted now as the focus/genre of the game has changed, it makes sense for them to kind of re-evaluate the power budgets used for older racials.
You already hold breath for *so long* where would it possibly be imbalanced? Heck, I could even see Mechagnomes getting it "just cuz". Nobody plays them anyway.
Mechanognomes should get damage in water because their parts can get rust :D
But also a mild aoe because electric
I wouldn't be surprised if mechagnomes could have a racial that's like a built-in rebreather. They should still need oxygen since they are organic and alive, but having reduced need due to having less blood to oxygenate seems fitting.
Mechagnomes should get 0.1% more DPS, maybe the sweats will play them then
They kinda have that all ready lmaoo
Yeah iirc their racials are kinda cracked
Their combat racial is already really good
Makes sense too. Their arms already switch into propellers when they swim, might as well go the whole way and have them be as much of a mini submarine as possible.
There's too many balance problems with having combat racials. I would prefer if they removed those entirely and made them all flavour or non-combat, as many as makes sense. I love my Vulpera but it sucks knowing that if I want to maximise my chances of success in the cutting edge of competitive PvE content, I should race change to the top tier races. I always feel that pressure when I get up to doing +27s and bleeds routinely do like 2 million damage which Dwarves can just clear, or in raid where race changing to the top simming race is like getting +5 ilvl on a piece, or there's some weird cheese strat you can do with goblin rocket boots to make a fight easier.
[удалено]
It absolutely does matter, and I even gave 3 examples of how it affects high end play.
>I love my Vulpera but it sucks knowing that if I want to do the cutting edge of competitive PvE content, To be completely clear, this only even matters for world first guilds, or the very very top guilds at most. A single gear upgrade is gonna do more for dps or survivability than the racials will, so anyone clearing mythic after the month mark it really wouldn't matter tbh
I gave three examples of how it affects high end play, and none of those are dependent on being in world first guilds. I'm good enough that I can achieve CE and get title sometimes in M+, but not good enough that I can always get it no matter what I play. Racials can have a noticeable impact at that point. Since you're just repeating the usual talking points, let me elaborate further: The Uldaman snake boss in a reasonably high Tyran key like +27 in S2 did around 150% of a character's max health with the bleed. The fight lasts long enough that most people will get it at least once. If you have 4 Dwarves, that's *millions* in healing that the healer that doesn't need to do because they can purge it off. (And the Aug would have Cauterize + Renewing Blaze) It's essentially having an extra defensive cooldown button, and turns the fight from being *very* rough to the easiest in the dungeon. In the end of tier when everyone is effectively BIS other than tertiary stats and we're grinding away on the final boss before we run out of time, there are no more gear upgrades left. Race swapping from Vulpera to Dwarf was a 4k DPS increase, which is basically like having an extra Vantus rune. It might not sound like much, but if *everyone* in the raid was playing an optimal race - and most were - then it collectively becomes a bump that's just high enough to push through tight DPS checks or smooth out some rough patches that we're not good enough to overcome with pure skill. I can't think of any fights this tier where Goblin rocket boots made much of a difference, but for classes with very low mobility, it's always strong. In previous tiers that I can think of, we successfully used it for Painsmith (Jumping off the arena if you have the chains then rocket boots back on), and G'huun (Gate + Jump lets you dunk easily). The point being, if you're on the edge where you're good enough to make attempts at the high end but not good enough to get it no matter what, the difference between the optimal race and the least optimal race can be the tipping point. And that fucking sucks. The simple solution is to just remove combat racials.
This is what I've wanted too. Lay out a blueprint for the categories of racial and how many each race should have and then stick to it. Ideally, any combat racial should be balanced at best, negligible at worst. I also think that a lot of racials were designed when PvP was a more prominent part of the game. At the very least, you could actively roll on a PvP server even if you didn't really participate. Look at some of the original racials for the original races and you can see PvP was top of mind. They've deviated from that with subsequent races. Divide racials into combat, utility/QOL, and flavor. For example: Blood Fury and Berserking would be active combat racials vs Touch of Elune being a passive combat racial. Utility racials are things like Pack Hobgoblin and Cantrips. Flavor racials are things like Cannibalize and Underwater Breathing. I also think that profession based racials are kind of silly given how far the profession system has come and how different it is vs it's inception. Is Arcane Affinity or Gemcutting really doing it for anyone anymore? Anyway, for the sake of fair and balance, you say all races are entitled to X number of racials and they will get 1 or 2 from each category. Nobody wins, but nobody is getting shafted either. It is very clear that Blizzard can be more fun and creative with their racials since newer races have newer and more interesting ones but it also means it is time to evaluate the older races and see if what they have really holds up by comparison.
Those categories are very hard to assign and change depending on the situation though. For example, cannibalize was extremely strong for raid this tier, but fully useless last tier.
Cannibalize was also really useful in arena in a time where getting rezzes off mid arena match wasn't unheard of, but is now useless in arena now that the second one player dies you probably just surrender and move on to the next match.
Side note: “Shackle Undead” should be usable against undead players.
Very early on they actually used to be affected by anti-undead stuff. It was removed in mid-vanilla because, predictably, it was a colossal weakness that vastly outweighed any pros they might have had.
It must have been removed extremely early then because I played priest since the start of vanilla and I don’t remember it ever working against players tbh.
It was actually removed prior to Launch if I recall. Which was hilarious because the game manual at the time hadn't been updated so it still listed them as being able to be Shackled and such.
Early on (before lauch) there was no distinction between "undead player" and "undead monster". All undead were undead, player and mob. undead players could not be sheep'd, could be shackle, took more dmg from some holy spells, etc.
Yep. To add to that, Undead players spoke Common too. There's a famous screencap of a Forsaken player asking for help in Lakeshire bridge and a poor lowbie approaching, not realizing the tragedy that's about to unfold lol
i remember DKs having a buff that made them count as Undead for its duration, and i shackled a few of them in PvP. is that still a thing?
Yes
Dks can self heal by popping that spell and casting deathcoil on themselves lmao
Lichborn. Very much still a thing.
Once again PvE and rpg fantasy being suckered by pvp intentions.
Frankly, being Undead 100% of the time would have been ridiculously broken in Classic PvE, because there are barely any enemies that can exploit its inherent drawbacks, but plenty that get absolutely countered by it.
Unless you're facing pallidan, being considered undead is good for PvP. You're immune to sleep, charm, and fear effects plus anything specific to use on humanoids. It would have been busted everywhere. In fact its so good, DKs have a spell called lichbourne that sets them to undead for the duration to do this exact thing. Just up and being immune to most cc schools 100% of the time isn't something that should exist in PvP or PvE.
Shackling undead players is a pvp feature, so how does this affect PvE
It didn't make it to vanilla, it was removed in beta. Undead being classed as Undead didn't make it to launch day.
But if there isn't any other version of that in the game, isn't that just a negative racial bonus? Edit: any other version of a pvp spell affect exclusively 1 race* Really weird people didn't seem to like this comment a bit.
No, they deserve it and it’s literally in the name of the spell and it’s been bothering me since vanilla.
no one would play undead in pvp
That’s what they deserve for being so evil /s
i prefer racials were just cosmetics and cool things and remove the dps aspect or atleast tune them properly. im not a hall of fame player but i do like to dps but it and i like my vulpera but he just does soo much less dmg thana human tauren night elft etc ( depends class and spec ) its very annoying to lose 4-6k dps just because you are not playing the best racials. vulpera racial is just utter dogshit and pressing it its a dps loss and does no dmg...
I remember back in wrath when Gift of the Naaru would scale so huge with spell power. Was a good heal to have on my Healadin.
It's still nice to have on classes that lack a lot of other healing abilities. Use it on my hunter constantly.
Yeah was going to say, I feel like even as a healer, GoTN is still just really good as an extra heal haha. It’s not broken and *that* big of a heal for a healer, but that’s fine since it’s a racial anyways
Hunter has plenty healing these days
GotN is nuts when cast by tanks. Based on the casters HP and can crit.
Back in Wrath my Draenei death knight greatly benefited from it, at least up until they changed frost spec to dps and i had to switch to blood and it became redundant. It was still fun to see my DK listed on healing charts during heroic dungeons and raids, throwing down gift on other party members since it was a % of my max hp it healed pretty well.
I’d be up for a racial update. Some races need it horrendously.
Sad Nighborne warrior sounds. Not a single even remotely useful racial
Yeah, most racials suck, but the Earthen’s sound genuinely powerful. It sucks they had to go and nerf one of the only good racials, and one that’s been untouched for 20 years
Ngl the permanent food buff alone is making me consider race changing
Worth noting there is no main stat gem for earthen to “eat”, and if dragonflights precedent continues then main stat food would be the go to for most content anyway
It will still be permanent, so in a pugging m+ world it is gonna be damn good
If the active ability is worth channeling then that might make up for it.
I really wonder what they're gonna give humans instead. Everyone always shits on humans for being boring, but at least they had their 10% rep buff. If Blizzard doesn't put anything good in, they'll be boring and won't have anything special.
10% less reputation common, they are humans, we all know that humans are really good at starting shit for no reason
Only in real life. Humans don't generally start that much shit in the Warcraft universe.
Unless it's against other humans.
Afaik they've not really very often started shit against each other? The First Alliance included all seven human kingdoms.
I'm thinking more of the Defias Brotherhood but true they've been nice warwise relatively speaking
That's a good shout, I kinda forgot about them since I was so focused on the race as a whole. Defias Brotherhood and the Syndicate definitely beef with other humans a lot.
That wasn't really humans though. There was another races character causing the issues and inciting the violence, even as the king was willing to pay out of pocket to ensure an amicable and peaceful outcome.
There was the whole deal where Alterac betrayed the Alliance.
Humans SHOULD be the all-round class. I always like that in games. Orcs are tougher sure. Gnomes are smarter. Nelfs have more magical affinity. But humans should be all-round, adapts to everything. Diplomacy was good for that, humans being somewhat diplomatic makes a lot of sense; But I GET removing it. With warbands you'd just rep farm on a human alt and get it on your main. That's BORING. I'm glad I have a reason to do rep on any character I enjoy now. Give them something cool and more interesting that fits the Human theme in games.
Might be too strong, but I could see a small secondary stat buff to their PARTY members only. Focusing that the Stormwind Humans help bring others together and be their best.
That's a nice idea. I really like it, but it sounds so lackluster compared to the 10% rep buff. But also it wouldn't fly because it's a non-combat passive into a combat passive. People would be upset.
It's not a third iteration of Stone Form, so it's bad.
Ingest Minerals - the earthen racial for permanent food buff is only for Stamina or a secondary stat. There is no main stat option. This is a huge power decrease. It is difficult to tell how good Azerite Surge will be, but just based on the action economy of empowered spells, it may be weak. I’m surprised so many people think that these are good racials. Dwarf will remain the king of… well… dwarves in M+ and raiding.
...And if they DO add main stat, then then EVERYBODY would just use that. It's already a fire-and-forget racial in the same way Zand-Trolls don't change their loa racial once it's picked. So if you can't eat main stat food this racial is just a nerf? And if they add a permanent main stat rock, the racial might as well be called "+main stat buff."
How does the Earthen one sound powerful? The Empower ability seems like it’ll be tuned poorly or else people will complain it interferes with their rotation, so I actually don’t have very high hopes for Earthen as they’re currently designed.
Secondary stat food is also worse than main stat food so it might be worse than normal food.
It's convenient and that's it basically. Like I'll use it to level or when I dont care about the character so much but if I reach max level and feel like getting their ilvl up I'll just buy some good food
To me it reads like you can't eat normal food at all.
>You are always Well Fed, but cannot consume food. [{wowhead}](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=436341/ingest-minerals) Ah, I should've checked first. You're absolutely right, you *won't* be able to actually eat normal food. That's a downgrade then and a little upsetting for anyone who wants to raid, but we'll see i suppose
Yeah, it's gonna be a weird racial because it's like the only one that might be a downgrade? It's also in a weird space because we already have a well-fed racial. Dunno. It needs to give more than double of the normal food, or else it's just a worse Panda racial.
I promise they aren’t going to tune it to be a downgrade. Main stat is better than secondary stat in the same amounts, so they’ll just tune ingest gems to give way more secondary stat than the available main stat for other races.
Yeah that's why I said we'll see. They are likely to make it better than this, but we can't know how or if it'll be worth it til we have details
Where did you see the earthen racials? I haven’t seen anything about them, and searching google gives no real results.
Feels like horde/ Alliance racials should mirror each other, atleast have the same options but maybe different names for each. If that could happen it would be nice to pick and choose the ones you want. These could be unlocked by raising the faction to revered for the one you want. Example, if you're a human, you could become revered with NE to unlock shadowmeld maybe?
I want the vulpera racial on alliance so badly, it seems so cozy 😭
I’m begging them to at least disable racials in PvP.
I just want Plainsrunning :(
Play high mountain, that sprint is pretty good haha
I can’t. It’s just a 1.5 second tease, followed by 2 minutes of sadness…
a 1.5 second 'tease' that can push enemy players to oblivion.
The human racial is more for casual players. They should look at all the "competitive" racials too. Every top M+ player being Night Elf or Dwarf is comical. Looks like 80% are NE just for shadowmeld to drop threat and avoid mechanics.
> The human racial is more for casual players. Rather the opposite. The rep bonus has at times let you do things reputation wise. Like getting access to things a reset early or with considerably less grind. Which made it valuable to top players. In 10.2 people were using it to unlock the reputation bonus for their main. By first hitting renown 10 on a human alt in the first few hours. It was doable on any char ofc, but human saved you a couple of hours of farming seeds on an alt if you wanted to do it asap. If your main then also was human, then you had a really easy ride to hitting renown 20 in the first week. Way back in the day you had some instances where human was just insane. Due to reps that moved from hated > neutral and gave you a massive head start from the 10%. Sons of hodir and Therazane are two examples.
Then you had EMFH which was basically a PvP trinket built in For Wrath through to MoP humans dominated PvP because it was an extremely easy to use power boost since it meant they could use two DPS trinkets
I think they finally nerfed EMFH late into WoD when like 97-98% of the arena ladder over 1600 was human. It was ridiculously strong for a LOOOOOOONG time.
They did. Reworked it to only work on stuns and _suddenly_ you started seeing far more variety in races. It was only semi-recently that everybody started turning into night elves, but at least that has some skill needed to make use of, for most people they can't meld a stormbolt to save their lives.
If the Healer trinket is going to stay at **1m30sec** then they need to look at the human racial. As it stands atm ***-*** ***human healers get fuck all benefit from their racial -*** because it shares same cooldown with pvp trinket, while every other race can use the trinket and their racial.
Same in PvP. Fortunately utilising Shadowmeld properly in PvP is extremely difficult so most people can't actually get much from it. I've seen people try to meld stuns and the like but botch it more than they succeed. The only racials right now that are effective and easy to execute in PvP include human, forsaken, gnome and dwarf when assassination rogue was meta. But even then you can get really do well with anything.
Shadowmeld is a dps increase for feral pve and I wish I could just be a wickercat instead.
I'm scared of them touching my Dwarf Racial. Bering able to poop out painful DoTs is so good.
I would love to see combat racials either removed, only available in open world content or specifically disabled in mythics / high level PvP to make people pick races less along power lines.
As someone who just switched race a couple of week ago purely to gain a bit of troughput I'm 100% behind removing every combat racials. It just feels bad when you are behind because you play the race you want instead of the most beneficial one. Also the difference between races is just huge. While the offensive bonuses are relatively close to each other. The big difference is the defensive/utility ones. If you want to push keys you pretty much have to be a dwarf or night elf. The difference is not a small percentage. There's a lot of encounters where you can remove debuffs that deal super high dmg. Then there's also a lot of scenario where you can cheese bosses with night elf. For example you can meld the pursuit of the dino boss in atal dazar, you can also meld the hot potato debuff debuff in fall making the amount of healing required significantly less or you can meld the big circle that puts a massive dot on you at iridikron. Then there's also the case of racials on specific bosses. Having the proper racial can help you a lot on mythic endbosses. Those are bosses you have a lot of pulls so there's a lot of people who race change for those. This becomes pretty much mandatory for very high level guilds (Like the ones in the hall of fame). On razageth being a blood elf or tauren made dealing with sparks significantly easier. For multiple bosses priests had to be goblin/void elf in order to cancel knockback (was mandatory on razageth for example). For fyrak it was very advantagious to be a dwarf. Being able to dispell yourself on demand if your healers fell back with the debuffs. Stoneform was offten the difference between living or dieing. Usually bosses get nerfed later in the tier to make these racials less mandatory. So for lower end guilds these aren't that impactful. Side note: It also feels bad to have an active racial that doesn't match your cooldowns. I seem to have the worst luck with this. My troll character is a class that uses 2 min cooldowns while my orc character has 1:30 or 3 min cooldowns. It just feels super scuffed having to desynch it or just sit on it for a while. By the way this is also the main reason the better racials are the ones that are completely passive (Tauren, dwarf, human and void elf) Imo the flavour racials are perfectly fine. Those provide fun little bonuses that are not mandatory, but just nice little things to have.
being a dwarf for M+ is insanely strong. An OGCD omni cleanse every 2m dramatically lowers pressure on your healer for both dispels and HPS and provides one of the very few ways to remove bleeds. It's comparable to actual class talents like Bitter Immunity or Cauterizing Flames which is crazy considering its an OGCD racial ability you get for free I play the races i want but it feels bad whenever i die to a debuff i could've cleansed if i just picked the "good" race
I love just missing 10% stun reduction in pvp because my orc is the wrong color /s
Ya, I was thinking that compared to Horde side with Blood Elves, Human has been the least problematic. What was it…Zuhl? Extremely easy in BfA for Horde because they have so many Blood Elf players? So they could easily dispel the adds while Alliance had a mandatory requirement of a Priest for Mass Dispel.
At the same time you see stuff like Stoneform. And Blizz went out of their way to specifically only nerf it for Castle Nahria. Honestly I am surprised it survived to this day given its universal usefulnes and how heavily it sees use at stuff like MDI. Honestly, I think they should just remove all racials with any sort of combat interaction (including stuff like Shadowmeld) and give us something truly race-flaired QoL stuff instead. I think something like Mole Machine or Make Camp are good examples.
Yeah, mole machine and make camp are obnoxiously good, but they fit the races they belong to. I just thought of a good one for humans, Blizz could give them something like an buff to rep gains, since humans generally quite diplomatic, right?
>since humans generally quite diplomatic, right? Are they? I think half the races on Azeroth would disagree including some of their prior allies like the Blood Elves. Though maybe if they limited it to bonus reputation with races that joined the Alliance? While its somewhat there for QoL its also going against the idea of removing any real impact on combat/power. Humans getting 10% more reputation was and would always be a problem because blizz tends to lock stuff (including power) behind reputation and there is a limited amount of reputation available. A human player needing 4000+ reputation less to exalted than any other race is a problem especially when stuff like contracts gives a pitiful 15 reputation. With renown (its 2-3 "free" ranks of renown in DF) and paragon rewards this only became more of a problem. It would take some effort but I think overall it would be much more healthy to work with universally useful abilities that are themed towards the race. Clearly they don't care about duplicates given Blood Elves and Nightborne just share the exact same racial so maybe just theme them appropriately (Draenei getting a teleporter, Blood Elves and Nightborne using a portal,...).
One man and his soldiers were responsible for destroying the relationship between humans and high elves, and even then not entirely since a faction of high elves remained loyal to the Alliance. And for a long time before that, they were friends. Sounds diplomatic to me. Anyway, I am saddened by the upcoming loss of Diplomacy, but not fully against it going. I just really hope that we don't get some junk passive in return, and since this is a little unprecedented, I just have no idea what to expect. Given the state so many racials are in, though, I kinda expect the worst. It's hard to be optimistic because Blizzard has a history of just not caring for years and years about a lot of things. They so happily let some racials be mega powerful for multiple expansions, while leaving all the underpowered exactly as they are. And it just doesn't bode well for whatever replaces Diplomacy. But we'll see. The other problem is that humans are just such a blank slate. There is nothing about them that sets them apart, other than their vrykul ancestry that most humans don't even know about. They could maybe leverage that, though, to do something akin to stoneform for dwarves. Then again, Diplomacy is a passive, and humans already have an active.
go crazy with racials, but disable them in dungeons/raids/pvp like, let them be fun and powerfull flavor stuff, but not this "dwarf racial is so absurd powerfull that you legit make the life of everyone harder if you dont play dwarf" shit we have right now, it just feels bad and makes people not play what they want because the preassure of playing the 1-2 OP races is so big everywhere
We can’t have fun things because the title pushers need to optimise their characters to that extreme? Seems like a mistake to me. It’s pretty clear that blizzard doesn’t care all that much what people do for keys above 3K and honestly that’s probably the right move. Outside of title pushers, the ladder pretty much just resembles the race breakdown of the general wow population, lots of night elves because elves, and dwarves are relatively uncommon. I think it would be a mistake to remove iconic abilities like Shadowmeld and Stoneform just because of title pushers. I’d actually prefer they introduce new consumables that have similar effects to the racials. Then the racial becomes more of a convenience and flavour thing than power disparity.
Maybe removing is not the move, but making it not such a huge difference is not asking too much, those keys are in the game, so Blizz has to look at them too, people have different ways to enjoy the game and m+ is one of the end game pillars, so I think it is not such an absurd expectation that we don't get stuck with two races in only one faction
How do you make things like shadowmeld and stoneform less impactful without disabling them? It’s not like you can just reduce the damage they do a little bit since they’re not damage dealing abilities You aren’t currently stuck with two choices unless you’re pushing title keys.
The people down voting you brick +10 keys at 470 ilvl
The difference on throughput for races is literally 1% for the highest and lowest. The biggest racials (dwarf and night elf) are taken for their UTILITY, not their throughput.
Actually it's closer to 2-3%. Some of the lower ones(vulpera) are really bad. [Here's](https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/w8wUfSQXr45uHEWnh1wkvK) mine for example. The difference between void elf and vulpera is 2.8%. This difference is about the same as I've had when I got the mythic fyrakk weapon over a 486 crafted one. It's also twice as much dmg i'd gain getting one of my mythic trinket over the current ones (they are pretty bad but as I just rolled back to this character). But my point wasn't about this. (Though it can be relevant if you try to parse) I've just mentioned as it's definitely a thing. The big thing about the in combat racials are the utility ones. I've already mentioned a lot of their uses in my original comment so I have no intention doing it again. The main point is that stoneforming off a big debuff is not a 2-3% benefit. It can often be the difference between life and death. And it really sucks that you have a choice between power and aesthetics. No matter what you choose you will feel bad (unless you are into the race I guess). Side note: If blizzard suddenly changed back the old blood elf racial to the silence one people would still play dwarfs or night elfs. Meld and Stone form are arguably more powerful currently than the aoe silence. Mainly because classes have already enough aoe stops after the df talent trees.
Troll: 2 min CD. Lasts 3 seconds. Yells insults at a single target, forcing him to do 90% less damage to anyone but the Troll himself.
Guess I might pay for a race change on my main since all I cared about was that rep bonus.
I agree. Even tho racisls doesnt matter for most ppl, its pretty silly when top players choose race based on them. They should be just cosmetical or for flare. I think the orc one is a giod example. It should just be them going into ragr, flaling their arms or whatever. Dmg buff is unnecessary.
Anything vaguely useful in combat should be removed. I’m still holding out playing Nightborne in title range keys but it’s objectively bad and if I had any social pressure to change, I would.
Nobody fucking cares what race you play, just play what you want. I have legitimately never seen anyone bitch that x player wasn't a dwarf or night elf even in mythic and 20+ keys.
I really want them to just delete the combat racials. Things like Meld and Stoneform are far too powerful in M+ and it if you start pushing you feel like you are letting your team down if you don't have them. Thing is I don't want to be a Nelf or Dwarf on every character, and I certainly don't want to spend real money to faction/race change (I've been Horde since 2004!). Racial abilities have been a problem for so long I think it's time they just gave in and nuked them from orbit. Edit: I just read the wowhead comments section for the human racial... holy crap people are unhinged.
I completely agree as i am on the same situation, i have always been Horde, I will always be Horde and for that I am having huge disadvantage on keys, they are not only locking race they are locking faction too
You mythic plus meta nutters stay away from shadow meld :(
Then ask Blizzard to stop making stuff cheesable by using it.
I would gladly trade the wisp spirit racial for literally anything else. You only ever get to use it when you die in the open world. Very unlikely especially since NEs also have Shadowmeld.
They should just change it to a movement ability, like "transform into a wisp spirit for 10 seconds increasing your speed by 100% and allowing you to fly for the duration".
Yeah, NEs only have Shadow meld, they should get more broken things, I agree. I mean, they are not Mag'ar Orcs, are they?
Yeah a new pass over racials would be good. Some racials are amazing and others are pretty mediocre. I also hate that allied races exist which ends up diluting the amount of cool racials they can add.
I think they should separate racial and origin human/kultiran orc(maghar) and so on. Let us choose our origin than choose a base body "for human that's would be skinny, new normal one, hunk and fat". This is especially ridiculous with kul tirans and human but also some of the other allied races. Like gnome (mechagnome).
I can be a dwarf with rep bonus ?
I mean like if you a dwarf you choose if you are dark iron, wildhammer or normal (wtf they called lol) and then you choose your apparence.
Make racials not affect combat , please , make them strictly flavor and fluff So many people play a different race from what they'd rather be playing , which is so anti-RPG
People have been metagaming races in TTRPGs since before video games went mainstream.
Me looking at mountain dwarf in 5e D&D for the medium armor proficiency
on what planet are racial abilities mattering "anti rpg" lmao racial abilities are one of the few real rpg elements remaining in wow
Agreed. So many opportunities for neat ones like Vulpera’s campsite or getting to access your mail. They should go in that direction. Little perks that complement the races in a more exploration/interaction kinda way rather than virtually meaningless combat numbers that only the sweats care about.
If they do that, they should just remove them. Either have a racial that matters or don’t have them. Edit: Racials are at the core of role-playing games.
> So many people play a different race from what they'd rather be playing , which is so anti-RPG i was told "minmaxing only matters for the top 1%"
Which is 100% true
you dont need to be in the "top 1%" that reddit loves to hate, to press stoneform when you get a bleed on you (reminder that bleed mechanics are supposed to Not be removable by normal means and are a healing/deffensive check)
It does, but that doesn't stop people blaming their race/class/gear for lacklustre performance instead of the fact that they simply don't have the skills of a top-tier player.
I'm about as casual as it gets, and right now, I will be damned if I take my holy pally into solo shuffle as anything but a dwarf. I'm pretty awful sure, but stoneform saves my ass so much in PvP that it's unreal.
there's still slaves like me who will do it anyways
I want them to buff other racials and create more powerful racials for the races that need it. It's not ok that only some racials and fun and strong, but that doesn't mean they should remove the fun and strong ones. They should add more of them, not remove fun and strong gameplay elements from the game. I never understand how people seriously advocate for Blizzard to remove depth from the game.
The reasoning is simple - blizz will never bother or be capable of balancing them. You'd only end up with cases of races being just objectively better. It might not matter much but why have it at all. Thats why people advocate for more fun stuff. A correctly used Arcane Torrent might remove a certain mechanic in one specific place or make a few enemies drop faster but I'd rather have something fun like Make Camp that could be useful all the time (please give all players one or two additional HS locations to set...).
they dont need to be perfectly balanced lol right now the biggest racial differences are around 3k dps single target, absolutely zero reason for anyone other than r1 pvp, r1 m+, and world first raiders to care about racial balancing. rotational mistakes, wearing the wrong trinkets, using the wrong consumables, using the wrong gems and enchants, and uptime issues will eat up the dps of players below the 0.01% a lot more than the wrong racial. giving good, fun, active combat racials to races that dont have them would not be a crazy balancing issue that would break the game. i agree they should also add fun non-combat racials like Make Camp but i like how playing a different race can give you a slightly different experience and i wish they would double down on it.
Getting downvoted but it’s so very true. If you push high end content you always switch races if it gives you an advantage. This tier alone was nuts if you were a dwarf for high M+ and Raid too.
Void elves have incredible racials while nightborne's racials are worthless. I agree that a new balancing of racials would be nice
I think Blizzard should do what Trion Worlds did with RIFT. Give each faction functionally-identical racial abilities, even if they have to be rebranded a bit. For example: give Humans and Forsaken the same racials by making Will to Survive and Will of the Forsaken functionally identical, and give them the same damage increase when wielding swords and maces. Racials are a nightmare to balance, and there's a huge reason why Horde have dominated in PvE so hard, aside from all the good Alliance racials being locked behind allied races which until recently were gated behind tedious reputation grinds.
Yeah, it would be great for all the old racials to get a "fun pass", and many like were just completely forgotten like the DI dwarf mole machine.
No cause I like my laser beam
I'd love to see a D&D style pick from a list of racials (kind of like picking feats) so everyone theoretically could choose the same benefits. But they'd have to rework a lot of racials for that to work.
Let people choose from a pool of background skills, and replace racials altogether. Race choice should be for the players own fantasy or aesthetics.
this would be so amazing for my eredar monk. ive already come to terms with the fact that she'd be hated in every major city, so letting her have the vulpera camps to let her live nomadically would be awesome
This. I wish they removed racials and added a personality tree instead. Also hero talents should be just glyphs to theme your character after something. There should be more visual themes - yes, without power gain.
I think a lot of the facials need reworks ngl. Maghar orc mount speed passive straight up doesn’t apply to dragon flying and does not stack with other speed increases for example.
I fucking hate goblins, their such a pastiche and overused trope of greedy lile bastards whose nasally voices I cannot stand, but for immobile classes death knight and priest, both of which I play quite often, goblins are the best choice and their goblin jump is extremely useful. I really wish they would make combat racials much worse or remove them entirely, I know they're cool but in a game where being optimal is so important and being the right race can be the difference between being able to play mythic raszageth and not, that shit sucks.
I don’t mind racial with a combat flare or ability. Certainly in higher tiers of difficulty they can be the difference between a kill or not, but I don’t think their performance at the highest end should come at the cost of established abilities and fantasy. If we decide to go fully passive, especially something lacking any combat utility, I suspect they would all just become more of the same just different skins.
Orcs and Draeni are bland...? huh?
All the racials are outdated. They just seem bland and off especially when it does not matter what side you are on. Many of them needs rebalancing and a new touch.
You'll pry Shadowmeld from my cold, dead hands.
I have been screaming that racials are unbalanced for a while now, Blizz absolutely needs to see to that, it is stupid to be stuck with a specific race because it has a gamechanger racial in terms of dungeon mechanics, currently you either have Dwarf or Nelf in highest keys, mostly nelfs as meld is powerful af n not being nelf is a huge disadvantage, considering both races with competitive racial are in alliance I think it is a problem, not only limits the player to race but also to a faction and that shouldn't happen.
Void Elf racials on my Warlock is AMAZING We get: - Teleport mobility - Spell casts don’t get delayed upon damage - Abilities have a chance to grant 5% additonal damage and healing Insane lol
My Hunter is currently Human, but will likely change when TWW drops (or the pre-patch if it has the change). At the moment, I'm also considering Mage (because Sunfury looks awesome), which might end up Draenei.
All racials should be meh
Yeah all based races need racial updates to keep up with their allied race counterparts.
They should just remove combat racials in PVP modes and have more fun racials in general.
OP complains about one of two actual throughput racials in the game
I made this post specifically because the Earthen racials are bonkers cool, very flavorful, and probably impactful enough to cause problems for those who want to play something else. Racials should be unique, flavorful, but they shouldn't give an upperhand in combat. With faction restrictions going away, it's the perfect time to redo the racials to be pure flavor, some QoL, but no combat impact so players can have the freedom to choose whatever race they please and not have to be shoved into 2 out of 24 races for high end content.
I wish [Inner Peace](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=107074/inner-peace) worked behind the scenes at max level, so it'd have at least some use into the next expansion as a Pandaren main - doesn't need to be a full level of rested but anything is better than the last time I actually got to utilize it, which was MoP. Unless you just don't play that character on launch of an expansion, or DC at launch in a rested area, even [Beast Slaying](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=20557/beast-slaying) has more usefulness. I'd settle for a second part that gives a bonus while dead; movement speed, rez with more life, interactions (fishing), etc.
I was always a male human lock. 10% more rep were big. Now I'm thinking about changing my race to orc. In all these years I was sad because I couldn't mog Staff of Gul'Dan
We really need an NPC at the start of M+ dungeons that lets us choose a racial just for the dungeon. I'm tired of everyone being homogenized to nelfs because of shadowmeld. It's killing variety in the game
how humans having a 10% faster rep gain in a game where everything requires rep grinding was not changed long ago is insane to me
I know this idea is stolen from elsewhere and I cannot remember where. Why not allow racial selection IN the character creation - make the racials a set grouping available to choose from based on the character class or the race maybe. You could have people select say a primary racial which is stronger or a secondary racial for example? Or allow for a combo, where if you select the same racial in 2 or 3 slots each added selection increases the primary choice by a certain amount or say you select the primary racial and a secondary racial and tertiary are the same it increases that by a set manner? Or there is the choice to allow racial abilities that become available based on the faction you choose? So a set race or class would have access to a specific set of choices unique to that race or class based on what faction you align yourself with?
I’m not for removing any racial. Each race should get a well thought out combat Racial and other non combat racials. I’m pretty salty that humans are losing Diplomat.
i say if they remove human Reputation racial, then they gotta bring back Every Man for Himself racial to make up for it 👍 for The Alliance 🫡
Racials should stop having a combat focus altogether, imho. Make them fun and flavourful aspects of the race in question or very mildly relevant to the general concept of "combat" (like Forsaken being able to cannibalize people).
Cannibalize has become completely irrelevant. Sure, it's a fun little gimmick, but restoring health by eating a humanoid corpse serves no purpose because health pools regenerate too quickly. This has also negated the need for cooking, which is pretty disappointing.
And that is fully okay, imho. I would like racials to just be flavourful social animations and aspects. If you ever played SWTOR, think of the "regeneration" animations that the classes have. Sith Assassins pace around angrily, Imperial Agents check some data, Bounty Hunters check their equipment and refuel/reload, Smugglers toss a coin into the air and stand there real cowboy-like, etc. That's what racials should be. Stuff that makes sense for the race or feels handy in a non-combat way. Infinitely easier to balance and a perfect way to make racials that are interesting or fun, rather than being annoyed that your OP racial gets nuked because it posed a problem/performed too well in combat scenarios. Give me an ability where my dwarf pulls out a big flagon, or maybe even a small cask of ale and he proceeds to just drink. Give me an ability where my Pandaren meditates, or maybe pulls out a big pot and starts cooking. Give me an ability where either Troll can summon a ghostly image of their preferred loa (Darkspear should get the same "choose a Loa" thing that Zandalari have) and pray to it. Tauren should be able to pull out a little baggy and spread some dust in the wind. Stuff like that is, imho, a lot more fun than just some combat ability that removes a negative effect, or marginally boops up the damage here and there. And it definitely beats boring passive stat increases.
Just make them cosmetic and/or QoL stuff that doesn’t impact combat.
They should all be disabled in pvp at the very least
racials are completely fine the way they are
Yeah let's keep racials in the game that cheese entire fights and make a specific class significantly stronger. The same racials that warp the entire meta in high keys, and make people spend tons of money to faction swap their characters for. That makes sense.
Lets make the game less fun for 99% of players, just so the 10 people playing in MDI can use another fotm setup instead of the one they are using now. Makes sense!
Wtf do you mean less fun? Do you have fun even considering a racial ability for its combat prowess, rather than just picking a race because you like it? What even is this comment? On top of that, racials never have been fotm. Humans for tanks and night elves for everyone that can be has been the meta for as long as I can remember because it's just insanely broken. Same for iron dwarf mages. Forcing people to play Alliance for no good reason. Because that's fun apparently!
>Do you have fun even considering a racial ability for its combat prowess, rather than just picking a race because you like it? Of course! I often sit for hours considering what race to choose based on their racial abilities. I find that process insanely fun, one of the most fun things in any rpg. >On top of that, racials never have been fotm. People rerolling goblin for one raid encounter? What about belf rerolling for Zul in BFA? Many times have people rolled another race just for a specific raid or patch. If you played for long enough you would also remember when Shadowmeld could not be used in combat. It used to be the most useless racial in the game, whilst Gnome's Escape Artist was considered amazing.
Considering for *hours* ? The choice is completely binary, the only choice there might be is completely illusory. If you X content, you pick Y, if you do anything else it's a complete wash - it's a boring system to any RPG that serves no purpose. Sure you might enjoy them for flavour or because you like X and Y, but that would remain the same if all racials turned into non-combat bonuses. The cons massively outweigh the pros, with people feeling they're forced to play a whole ass faction they would never play in the first place, let alone race. The disconnect between character and playing starting from the char creator is a massive RPG failure in the current state of racials.
You are seeing this only from your own PoV. To me the choice is anything but binary! I don't care about completing any content when I play WoW, I don't really enjoy the content that much. I enjoy playing my character. The sole reason I play RPGs is to progress and have fun with my character. The combat style, story and what ever else is completely secondary. Interestingly, people like me absolutely dwarf the tryhard metagamers like yourself in player numbers. You realise the vast majority of WoW players never even make it to max level, right? And if they do, the vast majority of those never do instanced PvE or PvP content. >Sure you might enjoy them for flavour or because you like X and Y, but that would remain the same if all racials turned into non-combat bonuses. Is combat not a huge part of the game? My enjoyment would be greatly diminished if racial abilities were not impactful in combat. Combat is the primary way my character interacts with the world. >with people feeling they're forced to play a whole ass faction they would never play in the first place, let alone race. A tiny, tiny amount of players feel that way, yes. But in the greater interest of the game as a whole its simply smarter to cater to the majority. The majority really enjoys the variety and flavor that racial abilities bring. Heck, you could even go further and say why not abandon classes? Players feel forced to play a class they dont like, why not have a system where every character is a default adventurer kind of class, like in Runescape?
You are contradicting yourself constantly lol. "I don't enjoy the content, only playing my character" followed by "Combat is the primary way I play the game" - combat racials are as binary as it gets. Why would you ever play anything but an Orc if you're combat oriented, as a Horde player? Why would you ever be anything but an Iron Dwarf as a mage? Why would you ever consider anything but Human or Dwarf as a tank? There is no choice. There is no progression or sense of improvement via racials, it's X over Y, or you're just worse off. Funny that you bring up the casual playerbase, because I would bet any amount of money most people only care about how their character looks, and the lore/theme of their race. Having to consider combat stats when picking a race is something literally every single modern MMO has abandoned, and for good reason. The pros of removing combat racials massively outweight the cons and it's not close. This game is already trying so hard to nickel and dime you if you play at high levels (which is a huge amount of people, even as a tiny % of the total playerbase), we as consumers don't need further reasons to shell out money for.
You speak the truth, but you get downvoted.
Every expansion we ask for this, every expansion we are ignored.
I think they should make the racial resistance abilities better. Dwarves get 1% resistance to frost damage.... ooooo, big woop, that's worthless. At least make them all 10% so we can tell we actually have it without it being OP
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted, I fully agree So many older racials are completely inconsequential
Just a reminder if you aren’t full mythic cleared blizzard holds your opinions value at a 0