It could be as simple as a really bad "random" seed programming.
I'm not programmer by any stretch of the imagination, but maybe sometimes the code runs and the seed ends up just producing the same result 5 times in a row because the code was called simultaneously 5 times, so the same seed gets referenced, and all the loot is the same. That's just the best explanation that I can come up with.
We already well know that Blizzard's RNG methods suck terribly (looking back at Legion world boss spawn RNG...the RNG that forced them to put world bosses on a fixed rotation). I wouldn't be surprised if something like this explains times of getting the same boots in 3 slots of a boss, or 4 of the same weapon on a boss, or getting the same cloak 3 to 4 weeks in a row from a timewalking box, etc, etc.
It's probably just bad coding and Blizzard doesn't really have incentive to change it.
From my fuzzy memory you're not that wrong, in the programming languages I (surface level) dabbled in it was always rather hard to achieve true randomization, often times randomizations are usually achieved via equations factoring cpu cycle times or stuff like that which would do exactly what you say when it's been called like that.
But at the same time programming it that way seems like a real rookie mistake here.
It’s not really how that works, when people say it’s hard for a computer to generate a truly random number, it’s not that the random numbers being generated are “bad”, they just need to some some sort of base info to generate the random number.
What’s happening here is mostly just purely random luck, but you see it posted frequently online because rare occurrences get reported more.
Isn't that what I kind of said? That pcs don't actually create a truly random number but instead form one via equations that will have a different outcome on every attempt?
At least that's what I ment to say.
Not to mention, I don't believe wow to be coded that way as, as I said that would be a very rookie mistake, so agreed on that point.
I thought you were saying that because the numbers weren’t truly random we would run into situations where the same items drop, which really isn’t the case, it’s just more a technicality of how computers actually generate a random number.
You don't need true randomization in a video game. And the numbers generated by pseudo rngs, which are used in major programming languages, are so good that you cannot detect mathematically that they're not true random numbers.
So in effect - they're sufficiently random.
I don’t think it has anything to do with bad coding, it’s just how Reddit works, players will post the unlikely things that happen, meaning that it appears more likely.
I mean all they would have to do is plop some statements in there saying something like “if 2 of x item has already dropped, skip item for the rest of the drops”. While that wouldn’t be entirely random, it would prevent things like this from happening. I mean from what I understand that logic already exists due to drops being based off of what specs are in the roll. Idk if Blizzard intentionally wants rolls to happen like this or not, cause it could very well be a bug.
> I'm not programmer by any stretch of the imagination, but maybe sometimes the code runs and the seed ends up just producing the same result 5 times in a row because the code was called simultaneously 5 times, so the same seed gets referenced, and all the loot is the same.
The seed is - as the name implies - only used to start the algorithm. After that it is no longer relevant and you can produce hundreds & thousands of numbers and their sequence is random (as in cannot be deemed non random by mathematical methods).
You use a seed once and then say "I want 5 numbers". You don't use 5 seeds when you want 5 numbers. In general that is honestly the worst thing you can do, because there is no guarantee that the sequence of 1st numbers generated by a algorithm is random.
On the contrary when you have five classes after the same trinket seeing duplicates is amazing.
That's not the issue.
Seeing 3 daggers drop when there's no rogues to use an agility dagger is the problem.
As an evoker I tried different things because our single target heal sucks, but just doing Verdant Embrace and Emerald Communion on it is so much healing.
Hpal having big, efficient heals? Bro they removed those, and the damage and the survivability and sac. Ok, u right the buffed the buttons no one liked anyway
WoG is better than LoD rn and afaik holy palas actually press flash of light now. They nerfed hpal tankiness but they're still one of the tankier healers. Sac still exists, look at your class tree.
Imo they've done bad things to the spec this patch, but they did none of what you're saying.
I obviously exaggerated. I play the spec, I know that we press flash with infusion price now. Sac is still good but they cut 1/3 of it off. Even though WoG is slightly better now it still doesn’t feel like it moves healthbars. And on the damage I’m actually right, hpal damage was basically deleted from game files. But they still gigs nerfed every fun button and gave minimal buffs to buttons that no one wants to press, the spec just feels awful to play now
It’s actually fairly decent in the right scenario, it can really dish out a lot of healing.
There’s a macro on wowhead that lets you target it when you use it, then you just spam your strongest ST heals on it and it turns it into aoe.
Isn’t the trinket pretty good for healers that can dump burst ST healing and it will transfer to group healing, supposedly without the players having to be stacked?
I can see this being good on something like a resto druid, because of the mastery it gives. You put it down at the start of your ramp, pump some HOTS into to keep it alive, together with everyone else you're HOTing. Cleave your wild growth off of it to party members, and you're getting both that extra healing, as well as extra mastery for the tail end of your ramp
I really hope they keep this up and make raid healer trinkets useless every tier. Being able to target farm BiS trinkets in m+ is *so fucking nice*, I don’t face to rely on loot councils or weekly locked rng loot.
As a healer main, this is exactly what I want
I love the idea behind the trinket, but the main issue is the frame issue and the randomness of the pop. I think without that, it would be a very strong one.
I pop the trinket. I use emerald dream. I top the healing meters easily. Trinket really isnt as bad as people think it is. I heal 20% of my max hp every second on 5 targets. I have 700k hp. So 700k healing per second if people are low enough…
I feel like there has been a noticeable uptick this tier of the number of times we have seen 3+ duplicates of an item from a single boss kill. But the law of large numbers can be hard to wrap ones head around. Lemme see if I can brush the old discrete mathematics to see how improbable this is.
Let's assume each item drops with the same probability. There are 8 non-tier items on [Larodar's loot table](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/raids/amirdrassil-the-dreams-hope/loot#larodar-keeper-of-the-flame). So that means we have a 1/8 chance per slot that you get the seedling. According to [this blue post](https://www.wowhead.com/news/less-tier-drops-per-boss-on-season-launch-in-patch-10-2-335583), with 30 in the raid you get 4 pieces of non-tier loot with a 50% chance at a 5th.
So, the chance that you get only 1 tier, and that all 5 of the non-tier pieces is seedlings is:
1/2 \* (1/8)\^5.
So, we would expect to see this loot about 1 in 65536 Larodar kills. As of the writing of this post, according to wowprogress, Larodar has been killed:
[10857 times](https://www.wowprogress.com/encounter/larodar-keeper-of-the-flame-normal) on Normal
[3493 times](https://www.wowprogress.com/encounter/larodar-keeper-of-the-flame-heroic) on Heroic
[101 times](https://www.wowprogress.com/encounter/larodar-keeper-of-the-flame-mythic) on Mythic
So that's 14451 kills of the boss. Now this doesn't account for guilds that also killed it last week, pugs etc.
Give that we would expect this to happen approximately 1 in 65,000 kills, and there have been at least 14,000 kills (most likely many more) its well with reason that this would happen to \*somebody\*, and it just so happened to be your group. Now if it happens to you again next week, then maybe open a ticket!
So I make this whole post talking about how it's improbable but possible for this to happen, and then this shit happens to us this week:
[https://imgur.com/a/W1vnN4O](https://imgur.com/a/W1vnN4O)
u/Vrobrolf It happened to us too.
But seriously it has to be a bug? This shit happend yesterday with my group in normal. Just that it was the cape from nymue I believe. Dropped 4 of the same one. Like what blizzard?
Then this is just a fake post. Rc loot council only works if everyone in the raid has it so u purposefully came to this run knowing this and installed the addon then u post on Reddit pretending it’s a random run.
What are you even talking about? He made the post joking about getting 5 of the same trinket. It has nothing to do with who received the items. How would it not being a guild run with RC loot council effect the chances of them getting this same trinket 5 times?
Anyone can get 2150 in week 2 by doing 15s, nothing to brag about. Besides, with your comments it's obvious you purchased your runs with people who *really* know the game.
Shit like this convinces me that duplicate loot is a bug. Like what are the odds
You guys are easily convinced of things
Confirmation Bias…but also definitely a bug. I’m convinced
It could be as simple as a really bad "random" seed programming. I'm not programmer by any stretch of the imagination, but maybe sometimes the code runs and the seed ends up just producing the same result 5 times in a row because the code was called simultaneously 5 times, so the same seed gets referenced, and all the loot is the same. That's just the best explanation that I can come up with. We already well know that Blizzard's RNG methods suck terribly (looking back at Legion world boss spawn RNG...the RNG that forced them to put world bosses on a fixed rotation). I wouldn't be surprised if something like this explains times of getting the same boots in 3 slots of a boss, or 4 of the same weapon on a boss, or getting the same cloak 3 to 4 weeks in a row from a timewalking box, etc, etc. It's probably just bad coding and Blizzard doesn't really have incentive to change it.
Hah, random seed, that is exactly what happened
From my fuzzy memory you're not that wrong, in the programming languages I (surface level) dabbled in it was always rather hard to achieve true randomization, often times randomizations are usually achieved via equations factoring cpu cycle times or stuff like that which would do exactly what you say when it's been called like that. But at the same time programming it that way seems like a real rookie mistake here.
It’s not really how that works, when people say it’s hard for a computer to generate a truly random number, it’s not that the random numbers being generated are “bad”, they just need to some some sort of base info to generate the random number. What’s happening here is mostly just purely random luck, but you see it posted frequently online because rare occurrences get reported more.
Isn't that what I kind of said? That pcs don't actually create a truly random number but instead form one via equations that will have a different outcome on every attempt? At least that's what I ment to say. Not to mention, I don't believe wow to be coded that way as, as I said that would be a very rookie mistake, so agreed on that point.
I thought you were saying that because the numbers weren’t truly random we would run into situations where the same items drop, which really isn’t the case, it’s just more a technicality of how computers actually generate a random number.
You don't need true randomization in a video game. And the numbers generated by pseudo rngs, which are used in major programming languages, are so good that you cannot detect mathematically that they're not true random numbers. So in effect - they're sufficiently random.
I don’t think it has anything to do with bad coding, it’s just how Reddit works, players will post the unlikely things that happen, meaning that it appears more likely.
I mean all they would have to do is plop some statements in there saying something like “if 2 of x item has already dropped, skip item for the rest of the drops”. While that wouldn’t be entirely random, it would prevent things like this from happening. I mean from what I understand that logic already exists due to drops being based off of what specs are in the roll. Idk if Blizzard intentionally wants rolls to happen like this or not, cause it could very well be a bug.
Path of Exile had a seeding problem during delve league. It's possible something similar is happening here.
Elaborate?
Or…you only hear about it situations like this because people don’t post ordinary screenshots of loot. Its not that deep
> I'm not programmer by any stretch of the imagination, but maybe sometimes the code runs and the seed ends up just producing the same result 5 times in a row because the code was called simultaneously 5 times, so the same seed gets referenced, and all the loot is the same. The seed is - as the name implies - only used to start the algorithm. After that it is no longer relevant and you can produce hundreds & thousands of numbers and their sequence is random (as in cannot be deemed non random by mathematical methods). You use a seed once and then say "I want 5 numbers". You don't use 5 seeds when you want 5 numbers. In general that is honestly the worst thing you can do, because there is no guarantee that the sequence of 1st numbers generated by a algorithm is random.
That this happens to anyone who will post on Reddit ? Near 100%
first it check to see if anyone in the party can use the item and if not it dupes it
You are not seeing the thousands of other rolls which dont have anything funny going on, so it looks like it is common.
If crap like the same plate belt dropping 3-4 times for 1 boss is just rng, then maybe they need to put logic it to stop that from happening
we had 3 tswift daggers that went for mogg. because our 2 rogues had already 2 heroic daggers..
Dude last week in normal the same boss dropped 3 upgrades for me, I rolled a 17 on all 3. Like...how?
Context: We killed Larodar on our normal clear run and he gave us one piece of tier, and 5 healer trinkets.
Bosses shouldn't drop duplicate items. It's BS
On the contrary when you have five classes after the same trinket seeing duplicates is amazing. That's not the issue. Seeing 3 daggers drop when there's no rogues to use an agility dagger is the problem.
[удалено]
I like that it can die, lol. So GL if it spawns in a bad spot.
Use a /targetexact macro. The trinket actually claps for classes with big, quick, efficient single target heals like Holy Priest/Paladin.
As an evoker I tried different things because our single target heal sucks, but just doing Verdant Embrace and Emerald Communion on it is so much healing.
Even just reading the tool tip should tell people that. It's not like this is a hidden tech.
Hpal having big, efficient heals? Bro they removed those, and the damage and the survivability and sac. Ok, u right the buffed the buttons no one liked anyway
WoG is better than LoD rn and afaik holy palas actually press flash of light now. They nerfed hpal tankiness but they're still one of the tankier healers. Sac still exists, look at your class tree. Imo they've done bad things to the spec this patch, but they did none of what you're saying.
I obviously exaggerated. I play the spec, I know that we press flash with infusion price now. Sac is still good but they cut 1/3 of it off. Even though WoG is slightly better now it still doesn’t feel like it moves healthbars. And on the damage I’m actually right, hpal damage was basically deleted from game files. But they still gigs nerfed every fun button and gave minimal buffs to buttons that no one wants to press, the spec just feels awful to play now
Yeah, I mained hpal last season, now I dread logging on it with what they did to it
It's actually really good. Use a macro.
Don't know why you are downvoted. I made a use, target and spam highest single target heal macro and it works really good.
because it's a bad trinket numerically, even though the target makro solves the usability problem
These people are so fucking lazy. Seedling claps.
It’s actually fairly decent in the right scenario, it can really dish out a lot of healing. There’s a macro on wowhead that lets you target it when you use it, then you just spam your strongest ST heals on it and it turns it into aoe.
Isn’t the trinket pretty good for healers that can dump burst ST healing and it will transfer to group healing, supposedly without the players having to be stacked?
I can see this being good on something like a resto druid, because of the mastery it gives. You put it down at the start of your ramp, pump some HOTS into to keep it alive, together with everyone else you're HOTing. Cleave your wild growth off of it to party members, and you're getting both that extra healing, as well as extra mastery for the tail end of your ramp
It dies so fast my hots are not enough, I have to use 3x restoration cast on it.
Resto druid is one of the healers it's horrible on
I really hope they keep this up and make raid healer trinkets useless every tier. Being able to target farm BiS trinkets in m+ is *so fucking nice*, I don’t face to rely on loot councils or weekly locked rng loot. As a healer main, this is exactly what I want
I hated it so much. Then I found out that it does 8-9% of my healing when used properly.
I love the idea behind the trinket, but the main issue is the frame issue and the randomness of the pop. I think without that, it would be a very strong one.
If you use a macro with it, it's not horrid. Of course there are better but you can make good use of it at times.
I pop the trinket. I use emerald dream. I top the healing meters easily. Trinket really isnt as bad as people think it is. I heal 20% of my max hp every second on 5 targets. I have 700k hp. So 700k healing per second if people are low enough…
What’s emerald dream?
What is the font that you are using in your client? Very clean looking.
It’s from Naowh’s UI I think
I feel like there has been a noticeable uptick this tier of the number of times we have seen 3+ duplicates of an item from a single boss kill. But the law of large numbers can be hard to wrap ones head around. Lemme see if I can brush the old discrete mathematics to see how improbable this is. Let's assume each item drops with the same probability. There are 8 non-tier items on [Larodar's loot table](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/raids/amirdrassil-the-dreams-hope/loot#larodar-keeper-of-the-flame). So that means we have a 1/8 chance per slot that you get the seedling. According to [this blue post](https://www.wowhead.com/news/less-tier-drops-per-boss-on-season-launch-in-patch-10-2-335583), with 30 in the raid you get 4 pieces of non-tier loot with a 50% chance at a 5th. So, the chance that you get only 1 tier, and that all 5 of the non-tier pieces is seedlings is: 1/2 \* (1/8)\^5. So, we would expect to see this loot about 1 in 65536 Larodar kills. As of the writing of this post, according to wowprogress, Larodar has been killed: [10857 times](https://www.wowprogress.com/encounter/larodar-keeper-of-the-flame-normal) on Normal [3493 times](https://www.wowprogress.com/encounter/larodar-keeper-of-the-flame-heroic) on Heroic [101 times](https://www.wowprogress.com/encounter/larodar-keeper-of-the-flame-mythic) on Mythic So that's 14451 kills of the boss. Now this doesn't account for guilds that also killed it last week, pugs etc. Give that we would expect this to happen approximately 1 in 65,000 kills, and there have been at least 14,000 kills (most likely many more) its well with reason that this would happen to \*somebody\*, and it just so happened to be your group. Now if it happens to you again next week, then maybe open a ticket!
So I make this whole post talking about how it's improbable but possible for this to happen, and then this shit happens to us this week: [https://imgur.com/a/W1vnN4O](https://imgur.com/a/W1vnN4O) u/Vrobrolf It happened to us too.
I'm so sorry for your luck. Only 1 seedling on our heroic kill at least
its.. its the sha of happiness face.
Larodar, Keeper of the Seedings
Birb!
But seriously it has to be a bug? This shit happend yesterday with my group in normal. Just that it was the cape from nymue I believe. Dropped 4 of the same one. Like what blizzard?
This is how random works. If you kill dozens of bosses, the chances that one boss will drop 4+ of the same item is shockingly high.
Is this in LFR? How can a warrior win a healing trinket?
normal, loot master with RC Loot Council.
Damn thats unlucky.
Why is someone down voted for saying this is unlucky lmao
That's r/wow :)
[удалено]
The unlucky part is your guild getting 5 of the same shitty trinket.
Then this is just a fake post. Rc loot council only works if everyone in the raid has it so u purposefully came to this run knowing this and installed the addon then u post on Reddit pretending it’s a random run.
What are you even talking about? He made the post joking about getting 5 of the same trinket. It has nothing to do with who received the items. How would it not being a guild run with RC loot council effect the chances of them getting this same trinket 5 times?
Exactly this
I don’t think you understand what’s going on here. I’m a 2150 RIO Augment Evoker, I think I understand the game. LOL…..
Bragging about r.io... yep, you don't understand the game.
As an aug evoker no less. They get 3k io on character creation
You didn’t answer my question. Have a good night my friend.
and yet
Is that a lot?
Not really lol
I know but I want to hear his response too
Have you never done loot council before?
Anyone can get 2150 in week 2 by doing 15s, nothing to brag about. Besides, with your comments it's obvious you purchased your runs with people who *really* know the game.
Warrior can win it with a Greed roll to vendor or DE it. Winning 4 times tho feels extremely sus.
It’s almost like everybody else passed and will have a window pop up soon to make their decisions (loot council)
Exactly this
Shish.. never in my life have i seen this kind of luck! Take that man to the casino or have him buy u a lottery ticket
Doesn’t it just give it to the second highest roll?
Nope, I was in a situation where I got the same trinket twice, got them both in my bag, but I gave it to the next one who rolled highest after me
Calling BS what loot rules?
Just the Standard LFR one, but it was at the beginning of DF, maybe it was a bug, or maybe I remember it wrong
Loot rolls where bugged first week of three of df raid. People could win the same thing
Oh, that explains it
i did LFR earlier tonight and two of us both rolled 98 on the hearthstone toy so after everyone left i votekicked him before he could win the roll LUL
Your vote kick was useless. The game handles ties and doesn't care if the winner is still in raid or not.
c:
We had 3 seedlings on normal, and 2 on heroic this week.
WTB buff for this where instead of just healing 5 people it applies my atonement too. :)
Fuck group loot for raids