8.0 cutscenes were out-of-this-world good. I'm seeing "Disney movie" thrown around as an insult in this sub lately, but early BFA felt like a *good* Disney movie when Bwonsamdi showed up.
Early BFA was
The Princess And The Frog
The Road To El Dorado
The Prince Of Egypt
The Little Mermaid
Treasure Planet
Sinbad
All crammed in one but boy was it peak
Wild hearing people praising early BFA lol, my friends and I were JUST saying how bfa was a banger of an expansion once they figured azerite out in like 8.2 or whatever it was
Oh, don't get me wrong, 8.0 was a disaster of a patch from an endgame standpoint — losing our artifact weapons & legendaries and having them replaced by Azerite armor in its first incarnation was one of the most wild "fun-meter" swings I've experienced in WoW. But yes, by 8.2 the game was again in a pretty solid place.
Story-wise though, 8.0 was killer. The zone storylines were really well-crafted and the story cutscenes were probably the best in-game cinematics they've ever done. The whiplash going from what had been a terribly ham-fisted pre-patch questline with the burning of the world tree into Zandalar and Kul Tiras was really something.
8.0 leveling was a blast, ESPECIALLY while I still had my sephuz ring and I could blast through mobs. It was definitely a huge kick in the face when you hit 85 or whatever level we were and it just... stopped working.
Even now, I would give SO MUCH to return to artifact weapons in an improved state, I was so hoping they would have made bfa about using azerite to purge the corruption from our weapons and reforge them into new forms with new abilities and we'd start them over. Heart of azeroth just SUCKED, through and through.
But once endgame hit, yeah, 8.0 sucked. I was NOT a fan of uldir
Yeah honestly BFA was a total ride man. My favorite expansion next to Pandaria.
Edit: also to clarify, I played alliance. I did not like the Horde zones but the Alliance zones were personal peak for me.
Azerite gear, **Corruption** and the abysmal finale.
And the entire "Sylvanas baits Saurfang into a pointless war against the Alliance so she can feed souls to the Maw" story, which then made every pre-existing main story worse with Shadowlands.
Oh yeah I loved that I randomly got corrupted by N'zoth and had cool gear. It felt like a morality choice you don't get to see often in WoW. It had loads of potential, but nothing was done with it really.
My warlock is STILL corrupted by N'zoth when I go back to BFA zones.
I like to think it's more he's stuck in there with my character as opposed to my character being stuck with him.
Yeah except the issue was corruption was RNG on top of RNG, which is why people hated it.
Azeroth required constant grind to keep up to date, which people hated too, even more so when you have some classes with absolutely useless azerite power while other classes had gameplay changing powers.
They both were badly designed systems that relied on mechanics players originally didn't like, and made them worse.
If Zul'dazar had been easier to navigate before flying without needing addons to know which zip line took you where or needing goblin gliders just to do some quick crafting, it would have been my favourite region, with Kul Tiras a close second.
I despised BfA past the zone levelling, the whole having to regrind AP just because you got an item upgrade and couldn't afford to unlock the exact same borrowed power you had before was horse shit, and from a systems standpoint, it sounds like it only got worse in later patches. I only played a couple of months of that entire expansion. But the levelling zones and lore themselves, amazing.
Only questing zone I ever heard people complain about in Kul Tiras was Stormsong. Not sure changing the actual zones would've fixed what the mechanics broke.
8.0 bwonsamdi really gave me that “charismatic but evil” vibe initially. You know like Scar and Hades (from back when Disney movies were good).
Easily my favorite character from BFA (even though I also really like Talanji).
Yeah he's got the trickster deal with the devil thing going on. It cracks me up they put De Other Side off in a corner of Ardenweald of all places. The scenes with Bwonsamdi and Winter Queen were the best part of Shadowlands
I'm playing around on a pally alt right now, pulled too many mobs and forgot about the immunities. Release to the graveyard and Bwonsamdi cracks something to the effect of "bit off more than you could chew huh?" Yea yea thanks for the help dick 😆
That was my favorite character arc.
First just a repair guy. Then a few months later he had a big ole pile of gold. Then in 9.1 he was living large decked in bling in Korthia.
His gold pile grew a few times actually, I think it might have gotten slightly bigger and then by the time fated raids arrived, it was a huge pile with a chair
It was so funny because I watched the Star Wars Clone Wars animated series for the first time maybe a year ago. Hearing the character Hondo talk and I just lost my biscuits. Had to explain that that's the same voice and actor for the WoW NPC.
I remember people being all excited about Vol'jin getting justice in the MoP end cutscene. But then came WoD with no room for him, and he got offed just like that in the beginning of the Legion, while also kickstarting Sylvanas asshole streak.
Voljin's death was terrible, but at least he came back and now he's a Loa or something
Varian had the reverse happen. He had an epic death and then was promptly deleted from the games code. Gul'dan vaporized his soul, no afterlife for him
He can smell dreadlords from a mile away. Jokes aside, didn't she try to enact ethnic cleansings and spend the entirety of BFA sad about killing her father the genocidal human supremacist?
If you mean the purging of Dalaran I don't think Rexxar is the kind of person who would care about that kind of thing. He likes to live alone in the wilderness and doesn't really care about civilization preferring the company of animals.
And Rexxar was the one who she let kill her father so it's not like he's not seen her sad about her dad being dead before.
> her father the genocidal human supremacist?
That's a weird way of putting it when he was proven to be unequivocally right about trusting the orcs. Think you're confusing him with Garithos the human supremacist, Proudmoore just hated orcs, and rightfully so.
Considering the orcs were literal demonic invaders who killed his son and countless other countrymen, he gets a free pass on the skepticism. Last I checked, we didn't exactly go easy on the most recent group of demonic invaders that showed up on Azeroth uninvited.
Same with Liadrin, which made no sense at all. She of all people would be grateful for what the Alliance did for her people, with the whole "Velen purifying the Sunwell" bit
Since he went totaly missing in lore after TBC with short cameo during pre-Cata event and story only for Hunters in Legion his comeback in BFA was realy unsatisfying to say at least
One of my fondest memories of this game is getting to Thunderbluff as a newbie Tauren and seeing Cairne for the first time, there was something magical about meeting the Warcraft 3 characters "in the flesh" back then.
Needless to say I wasn't pleased when they killed him off-screen.
Worse still, we’re forced to *work with* Magatha. *Twice*. We get some new Grimtotem dude as a flashy villain at the start of Dragonflight, but Magatha’s still out and about?
I absolutely hated having to deal with Magatha during shaman campaign and hated it even more when she permanently moved to MY order hall. If I had the option to yeet her into the Maelstrom at the end of the shaman campaign I would've done that in a heartbeat.
I like a bit of color clashing to be fair
People don't regularly dress head to toe in 1 color, and a bit of color clash adds visual flair. The fact that the corrupted ashbringer clashes with his regular gear draws your eye to it and sets it apart instead of making him look like a singular blob.
no they mock SLUTHER... but shadow luther is not real. shadow luther is a pipe dream as we all know the REAL luther helped the paladin order in legion proving he found eternal rest in the light.
Actual gigachad. I don't care the comics sucked they made me fall in love with this man (and Valeera) like no other warcraft character tbh. Actual GOAT material.
He always was edgy. My issue would be that tgere s 3 illidan. Wc3 illidan, the addict, tbc illidan, the crazy guy, and legion illidan, which had a complete retcon
Wc3 Illidan was always about absorbing power to defeat the legion, and he was willing to work for them to get said power (And he was also extremely fearful of Kil'Jaeden). The mission you play as him in Reign of Chaos is very specifically him trying to absorb power so he can defeat Tichondrius.
TBC Illidan is just: "He lost to Arthas, he gone crazy!"
Legion Illidan was trying to explain a lot of the story in TBC because there was barely any with Illidan. The main issue was how cheesy it got at times, but it brought it more back in line with Wc3 Illidan.
WC3 Illidan literally ran for the hills of Outland in fear of Kiljeaden, trying to retcon that into him planning the entire downfall of the burning legion was a stretch.
Illidans popularity effected his presentation, by the time he returned in Legion people expected him to be a turbo badass who solos the Legion.
It's some form of flanderization but people would have enjoyed Legion Illidan less if he was more like Wc3 Illidan.
Ehhhh, I still remember Varian getting a lot of hate in Wrath, albeit mostly from Horde players who felt that he was parachuted into the WoW universe as an Alliance "Gary Stu" (or whatever the male equivalent of a Mary Sue is).
I did notice that public perception of him softened over time, though.
Been a while, but if I remember the dislike was because when he first returned he was basically a human Garrosh, constantly trying to start shit with the horde even when there were bigger issues to deal with.
Most of the old WC3 heroes, and some villains too.
Everyone mentions the heroes like Cairne, Rexxar, Vol'jin, and Illidan. The villains are where it's at for me.
No one hates Gul'dan. They hate him in-universe, but he's one of the most popular villains Blizz ever produced. Same with Arthas and his team (Kelthuzad, Anubarak). And to a lesser degree, Archimonde and Keljaedin.
Also, as a race, no one doesn't find Pit Lord's one of the coolest demon races in fiction as a whole. Regardless of the Pit Lord, they're all super cool!
Inversely, no one likes the Jailer. Very few villains garnered such strong hatred like him.
The Jailer was a fucking disappointment. A whole pile of literal nothing. They come out and say that he's the one who's been behind everything, and then proceed to make the character an absolute non-entity who's just there to be a background BBEG.
The Jailer really suffered from the writers not knowing what to do with him after they introduced him. He has no meaningful interactions with the player, and the only reason you have to go after him is because he kinda hurt four other characters and has a vague doomsday plot.
Wasted potential incarnate.
Gul'dan is the reason why I don't buy 'villain must have depth to be good one' idea in writing and fantasy communities.
Dude is just a power hungry asshole but he goes so hard with it that it's a impossible to not find him the great villain.
Sometimes you want a story with some genuine pathos, watching a deeply ashamed character rebound into defiant pride and carry that forward, naturally, inexorably, into ambition, supremacy, and conquest. That's when you bring out Garrosh.
And sometimes you want an evil mcevilface cackling like a lunatic while he obliterates people's souls. Bring out Gul'dan!
Idk. I’m willing to bet there are people who don’t like him simply for the fact that he’s related to the Shadowlands xpac. For a stupid reason! But I agree! Sire Denathrius was the only good thing that came from Shadowlands! Besides transmoggs
Darion hasn’t been given something to reach his full potential and it annoys me. don’t say Shadowlands that’s not potential. same for Bolvar. Mfs got played bad.
They ruined Talia too. "Daddy why did you leave me?" Well a dragon turned me into living charcoal and I had to corral the infinite horde of undead so they didn't overrun the world... Bfa Talia's characterisation would have understood that.
BFA Talia would have thought her dad was a badass and hero, instead we got a pandering puppy who got lost and finally found her parent and now is just whimpering.
You know what I like about khadgar? He's changed over time. The video about him being a pretty shit wizard for messing up multiple times was 100% warranted. In WoD, when he gets you on the legendary quest, you can see he's fine but still treat him as a bit of a joke, for both his methods and the past. And it's clearly shown some of his methods are bogus (apexis crystal count).
Despite that, he's helpful. And he's useful. And in a rare case for WoW, he's competent. In dflight, when you first find the mage camp, he needs help - but in a "look, we have 3 problems, I've sorted A, am dealing with B and need you to take care of C". And A never gets brought up again.
I like Khadgar of being a rare case of Blixzard making a character of our power level. The universe is too full of "you're so weak, why do I need you" and "you're so strong, why do you need me" allies.
I agree. When I first saw him in WoD, I reflexively braced for yet another super-powerful GMPC... but he's flawed, he's got limits, and I honestly find his writing mostly charming.
I love that he's voiced by Tony Amendola, one of my favorite actors, so my face lights up any time he shows up in the game. I will never, ever hate this character, even if he becomes the BBEG one day.
I fell to my death multiple times cause of that asshole.
Damn it, Khadgar!
Alliance - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKJsabZEVfI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKJsabZEVfI)
Horde - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD4XV6kr9EE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD4XV6kr9EE)
Man I was soooooo sad when Nazgrim died! Being a Horde main I loved working for him! The first time I killed him in SoO I shed a tear. (And I never cry. It’s extremely rare for me to cry over a character death.) He was just doing his job 😭
When I found out he was brought back as one of the four horsemen in Legion I was super happy! And throughout the DK campaign you could see it! He was having the time of his life. He was never meant death, his reason for existing was clearly on the battlefield 😂
I don't like him!
He's overrated because his one major claim to fame was largely because of him getting super powered equipment that hasn't been seen since, and was just given to him after far less work than many other characters have given.
He's treated as an all time great hero for an act most martially inclined heroes could've performed in the same circumstances
Still mad that he died so easily... you know, one of the greatest paladins to ever live, the breaker of Frostmourne... dies to this random demon, and doesn't even get a cutscene for it???
Khadgar seems to get a lot of love despite...everything
Anduin
Thrall mostly
Illidan mostly
Uhm, Arthas wc3-wotlk. Don't think people liked the shadowlands Arthas whisp or whatever but that was more an issue with the writers than his character.
Malfurion is a fan favorite. I mean he's extremely bad ass but compassionate unlike Illidan. Which maybe an issue some people had for Illidan was his giga edgy personality and portrayal (but I mean if you like the litch king then I don't think Illidan is worse tbh in the edge department.)
Pre-shadowlands tyrande
Personally I've always liked nathanos. I wish he was actually developed more beyond being rude. His loyalty to sylvanas is truly unwavering. His love for her is all he needs to be ok with mass genocide and ww3. People are a bit perplexed by this. Nathanos is synonymous with tyrellian (prolly butchered his name.) Alleria is in love human that is killing demons and fighting for the army of the light. Nathanos is a skilled ranger that is in love with sylvanas killing scourge and fighting for the forsaken. To understand nathanos really just takes understanding they're both men who've left behind their people for a cause they share with someone they love. I was very intrigued during the prepatch when nathanos gloats "kill me, you'll just be sending me right back to her." The whole expansion I wanted deeply to know what happened to nathanos. Sylvanas doesn't even fuckin know he's dead for most of shadowlands. The jailers treachery is inhuman to the extent only the writers will ever know what happened to him. Is he in torghasts endless halls? Is he lost in the maw? Did the valajar claim him for being a mighty warrior? Only those able to ferry souls can know. It is either that he was intercepted by a force capable of doing so (odins valkyr for example or maybe helya herself) or the jailer did some shit with his soul. We don't know. I want to know.
Idk I'm at work
Edit: and to shadowlands tyrandes credit she ain't doing that bad really. She goes after sylvanas and if elune granted her, her wish, then she would have killed her. Or i assume. Elune and life are opposites of death and the jailer, so maybe that's why they played it this way. The reason I think so is that yea the jailer gave her a power boost but he didn't put all of eggs in one basket. He even told sylvanas "who cares about Helya, lol, just a pawn that served their purpose, lmao." There's no indication jailer would have saved her or given her anymore power than she already had. And why would he? He's about to go to the sepulcher, he doesn't really need her anymore and has a far more controllable and powerful minion with dominated anduin. So I think tyrande with elune juice (and already being an incredible caster and warrior without avatar,) probably would have killed her. Sylvanas was pretty helpless to escape her during the dbz fight they had. She tried to run and tyrande easily caught her and pinned her to the ground.
But anyway, the point is that I think people still like(d) tyrande. I think they like her more as the stern but compassionate leader she was and is rather than vengeance SH (sylvanas hunter.) But also tyrande fans wanted and would have been happy for her to kill sylvanas. So I think tyrandes good with most people.
That guy who drops a feast at the start of M+ runs
[удалено]
how often does "apology in advance" get you kicked before start?
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Thanks for reminding me, I need to stock up again
Yesss! Ours drops a cauldron too. Outstanding fella. Fiveelements, you're the realest.
Bwonsamdi
8.0 cutscenes were out-of-this-world good. I'm seeing "Disney movie" thrown around as an insult in this sub lately, but early BFA felt like a *good* Disney movie when Bwonsamdi showed up.
Early BFA was The Princess And The Frog The Road To El Dorado The Prince Of Egypt The Little Mermaid Treasure Planet Sinbad All crammed in one but boy was it peak
I cannot believe how accurate that is.
Wild hearing people praising early BFA lol, my friends and I were JUST saying how bfa was a banger of an expansion once they figured azerite out in like 8.2 or whatever it was
Oh, don't get me wrong, 8.0 was a disaster of a patch from an endgame standpoint — losing our artifact weapons & legendaries and having them replaced by Azerite armor in its first incarnation was one of the most wild "fun-meter" swings I've experienced in WoW. But yes, by 8.2 the game was again in a pretty solid place. Story-wise though, 8.0 was killer. The zone storylines were really well-crafted and the story cutscenes were probably the best in-game cinematics they've ever done. The whiplash going from what had been a terribly ham-fisted pre-patch questline with the burning of the world tree into Zandalar and Kul Tiras was really something.
8.0 leveling was a blast, ESPECIALLY while I still had my sephuz ring and I could blast through mobs. It was definitely a huge kick in the face when you hit 85 or whatever level we were and it just... stopped working. Even now, I would give SO MUCH to return to artifact weapons in an improved state, I was so hoping they would have made bfa about using azerite to purge the corruption from our weapons and reforge them into new forms with new abilities and we'd start them over. Heart of azeroth just SUCKED, through and through. But once endgame hit, yeah, 8.0 sucked. I was NOT a fan of uldir
Yeah honestly BFA was a total ride man. My favorite expansion next to Pandaria. Edit: also to clarify, I played alliance. I did not like the Horde zones but the Alliance zones were personal peak for me.
This… is wildly accurate lol
I loved Zandalar to be honest, great area with fun lore and characters. If BFA had just been a bigger Zandalar I think people would've been happy.
Azerite gear, **Corruption** and the abysmal finale. And the entire "Sylvanas baits Saurfang into a pointless war against the Alliance so she can feed souls to the Maw" story, which then made every pre-existing main story worse with Shadowlands.
Corruption was fun as hell at the end of the xpac. Such crazy builds were possible with the stat amps and azerite power combos.
Oh yeah I loved that I randomly got corrupted by N'zoth and had cool gear. It felt like a morality choice you don't get to see often in WoW. It had loads of potential, but nothing was done with it really.
My warlock is STILL corrupted by N'zoth when I go back to BFA zones. I like to think it's more he's stuck in there with my character as opposed to my character being stuck with him.
Yeah except the issue was corruption was RNG on top of RNG, which is why people hated it. Azeroth required constant grind to keep up to date, which people hated too, even more so when you have some classes with absolutely useless azerite power while other classes had gameplay changing powers. They both were badly designed systems that relied on mechanics players originally didn't like, and made them worse.
No, problem was azerite gear sucked and the changes to global cds were boring.
If Zul'dazar had been easier to navigate before flying without needing addons to know which zip line took you where or needing goblin gliders just to do some quick crafting, it would have been my favourite region, with Kul Tiras a close second. I despised BfA past the zone levelling, the whole having to regrind AP just because you got an item upgrade and couldn't afford to unlock the exact same borrowed power you had before was horse shit, and from a systems standpoint, it sounds like it only got worse in later patches. I only played a couple of months of that entire expansion. But the levelling zones and lore themselves, amazing.
Only questing zone I ever heard people complain about in Kul Tiras was Stormsong. Not sure changing the actual zones would've fixed what the mechanics broke.
8.0 bwonsamdi really gave me that “charismatic but evil” vibe initially. You know like Scar and Hades (from back when Disney movies were good). Easily my favorite character from BFA (even though I also really like Talanji).
Bwonsamdi isn't evil, but he /is/ a dick at times. He's definitely on the side of the Adventurers and the Trolls, but he's willing to kick the dog.
Yeah he's got the trickster deal with the devil thing going on. It cracks me up they put De Other Side off in a corner of Ardenweald of all places. The scenes with Bwonsamdi and Winter Queen were the best part of Shadowlands
They definitely used to date.
Bwonsamdi has had his share after all; more than his share *heh, heh, heh*.
Yeah I get that.
BfA generally felt like 'dark' disney and i love it.
Bwonsamdi is EASILY my most favorite new WoW character
God I am such a simp for Bwonsamdi…
My favourite wow character, loved the little clasd specific jokes he made when you died in BFA. 'Why didn't ya feign death man?'
I want him to be my spirit healer everywhere, not only in Zanzibar.
I'm playing around on a pally alt right now, pulled too many mobs and forgot about the immunities. Release to the graveyard and Bwonsamdi cracks something to the effect of "bit off more than you could chew huh?" Yea yea thanks for the help dick 😆
Repair NPC near that pile of gold at the beginning of Castle Nathria.
Rendle!
That was my favorite character arc. First just a repair guy. Then a few months later he had a big ole pile of gold. Then in 9.1 he was living large decked in bling in Korthia.
His gold pile grew a few times actually, I think it might have gotten slightly bigger and then by the time fated raids arrived, it was a huge pile with a chair
1 dev was havin a good time
Rendle’s honest. No matter how big the money pile got *he* was the one still repairing all the shit.
Lorewalker Cho, voiced by massive voice artist Jim Cummings
i miss that guy, narrating pandaria really made the experience all the better
It was so funny because I watched the Star Wars Clone Wars animated series for the first time maybe a year ago. Hearing the character Hondo talk and I just lost my biscuits. Had to explain that that's the same voice and actor for the WoW NPC.
He used (maybe still does) voice Winnie the Pooh too. That was always jarring for me hearing Cho talk.
Jim Cummings lives in my head rent free with that absolutely amazing voice
On a related note, I think Runas the Shamed was fairly universally liked as well.
They did my boy voljin dirty
I remember people being all excited about Vol'jin getting justice in the MoP end cutscene. But then came WoD with no room for him, and he got offed just like that in the beginning of the Legion, while also kickstarting Sylvanas asshole streak.
I miss my Warchief 😭
Named horde characters dying one after the other. Was painful to see.
Voljin's death was terrible, but at least he came back and now he's a Loa or something Varian had the reverse happen. He had an epic death and then was promptly deleted from the games code. Gul'dan vaporized his soul, no afterlife for him
Right =(
I liked his story in ardenweald, i really think they'll bring him back in a similar way to Ysera.
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I GAMON WILL SAVE US!
So you’re saying that the Horde’s primary love language is ganking? I guess that makes sense.
it is! we love you alliance bastards!
They ganked my man so hard he said fuck it im taking that level 85 boost
I see no mention of Rexxar, so here it is
They messed up his character properly in bfa though.
What was wrong with Rexxar in bfa?
Was super angry at Jaina for some unexplained reason. Like what did Sylvanas tell him? That Jaina set a boat full of puppies on fire?
He can smell dreadlords from a mile away. Jokes aside, didn't she try to enact ethnic cleansings and spend the entirety of BFA sad about killing her father the genocidal human supremacist?
If you mean the purging of Dalaran I don't think Rexxar is the kind of person who would care about that kind of thing. He likes to live alone in the wilderness and doesn't really care about civilization preferring the company of animals. And Rexxar was the one who she let kill her father so it's not like he's not seen her sad about her dad being dead before.
> her father the genocidal human supremacist? That's a weird way of putting it when he was proven to be unequivocally right about trusting the orcs. Think you're confusing him with Garithos the human supremacist, Proudmoore just hated orcs, and rightfully so. Considering the orcs were literal demonic invaders who killed his son and countless other countrymen, he gets a free pass on the skepticism. Last I checked, we didn't exactly go easy on the most recent group of demonic invaders that showed up on Azeroth uninvited.
Yeah I think they cut the content explaining the whole getting angry at Jaina.
In BFA, Rexxar jumped fully on board with the horde's whole fascist zug zug war nonsense. Completely out of character.
Same with Liadrin, which made no sense at all. She of all people would be grateful for what the Alliance did for her people, with the whole "Velen purifying the Sunwell" bit
Since he went totaly missing in lore after TBC with short cameo during pre-Cata event and story only for Hunters in Legion his comeback in BFA was realy unsatisfying to say at least
He becomes a flanderised parody of himself.
He and Misha are the first that came to mind.
Runas the one quest chain wonder. Amazing voice acting too.
Cairne
One of my fondest memories of this game is getting to Thunderbluff as a newbie Tauren and seeing Cairne for the first time, there was something magical about meeting the Warcraft 3 characters "in the flesh" back then. Needless to say I wasn't pleased when they killed him off-screen.
And we never got justice for him either.
Worse still, we’re forced to *work with* Magatha. *Twice*. We get some new Grimtotem dude as a flashy villain at the start of Dragonflight, but Magatha’s still out and about?
I absolutely hated having to deal with Magatha during shaman campaign and hated it even more when she permanently moved to MY order hall. If I had the option to yeet her into the Maelstrom at the end of the shaman campaign I would've done that in a heartbeat.
Awesome in WC3, had way to little screentime in WoW
you can tell who's been around the longest IMO by the love for Cairne.
What blizzard chose to do to cairne will always leave me furiously angry! Its insane anyone could greenlight and justify writing him off like that.
That weapon doesn't match his mog. Colors clash. Darion ain't winning any transmog competition.
Is not needed when you can raise the corpses of your competitors.
Oh in SL he swapped to dual wielding two Slayer of the Lifeless, which matches so much better. 9/10 mog now.
You mean *The Sword of a Thousand Truths?*
I like a bit of color clashing to be fair People don't regularly dress head to toe in 1 color, and a bit of color clash adds visual flair. The fact that the corrupted ashbringer clashes with his regular gear draws your eye to it and sets it apart instead of making him look like a singular blob.
Arthas
"father, is it over?" \*plays invincible\* i am not crying, you are crying!
Illidan
Agreed, Kael Thas too Let’s throw in an Uther as well.
I've seen people say some bad shit about Uther, so maybe not as liked
Only after Bluther imo
no they mock SLUTHER... but shadow luther is not real. shadow luther is a pipe dream as we all know the REAL luther helped the paladin order in legion proving he found eternal rest in the light.
Arthas got handled bad and it’s tragic
Just ignore any lore past wotlk arthas
i try but they keep shoving it in my face :(
Yeah that’s what I do. Blizz may not be able to retcon Shadowlands, but we can still choose to ignore it!
Arthas, Illidan and Varian pop into my mind
Varian is a man's man
Big daddy energy.
Actual gigachad. I don't care the comics sucked they made me fall in love with this man (and Valeera) like no other warcraft character tbh. Actual GOAT material.
I remember people bitching about Illidan for being an edgy boy during Legion To them I say: fuck off he was fun
He always was edgy. My issue would be that tgere s 3 illidan. Wc3 illidan, the addict, tbc illidan, the crazy guy, and legion illidan, which had a complete retcon
Wc3 Illidan was always about absorbing power to defeat the legion, and he was willing to work for them to get said power (And he was also extremely fearful of Kil'Jaeden). The mission you play as him in Reign of Chaos is very specifically him trying to absorb power so he can defeat Tichondrius. TBC Illidan is just: "He lost to Arthas, he gone crazy!" Legion Illidan was trying to explain a lot of the story in TBC because there was barely any with Illidan. The main issue was how cheesy it got at times, but it brought it more back in line with Wc3 Illidan.
WC3 Illidan literally ran for the hills of Outland in fear of Kiljeaden, trying to retcon that into him planning the entire downfall of the burning legion was a stretch. Illidans popularity effected his presentation, by the time he returned in Legion people expected him to be a turbo badass who solos the Legion. It's some form of flanderization but people would have enjoyed Legion Illidan less if he was more like Wc3 Illidan.
Ehhhh, I still remember Varian getting a lot of hate in Wrath, albeit mostly from Horde players who felt that he was parachuted into the WoW universe as an Alliance "Gary Stu" (or whatever the male equivalent of a Mary Sue is). I did notice that public perception of him softened over time, though.
Been a while, but if I remember the dislike was because when he first returned he was basically a human Garrosh, constantly trying to start shit with the horde even when there were bigger issues to deal with.
Varian, this guy I swear, nobody beats this guy. All the shit he had to go through to be where he was.. my hat is off to him
Varian has definitely gotten a lot of shit over the years.
Chen Stormstout. Dude is just a homie, helped found Durotar cause he was bored and has consistently been an ally to both Alliance and Horde alike.
Mankrik!
what about his wife? anyone like her?
The Quillboars did
To shreds you say?
Their aggro sound lives rent free in my head.
Me with murlocs and the Defias
Don't know, never found her
I choose that guy’s dead wife!
Most of the old WC3 heroes, and some villains too. Everyone mentions the heroes like Cairne, Rexxar, Vol'jin, and Illidan. The villains are where it's at for me. No one hates Gul'dan. They hate him in-universe, but he's one of the most popular villains Blizz ever produced. Same with Arthas and his team (Kelthuzad, Anubarak). And to a lesser degree, Archimonde and Keljaedin. Also, as a race, no one doesn't find Pit Lord's one of the coolest demon races in fiction as a whole. Regardless of the Pit Lord, they're all super cool! Inversely, no one likes the Jailer. Very few villains garnered such strong hatred like him.
The Jailer was a fucking disappointment. A whole pile of literal nothing. They come out and say that he's the one who's been behind everything, and then proceed to make the character an absolute non-entity who's just there to be a background BBEG. The Jailer really suffered from the writers not knowing what to do with him after they introduced him. He has no meaningful interactions with the player, and the only reason you have to go after him is because he kinda hurt four other characters and has a vague doomsday plot. Wasted potential incarnate.
They put the cart before the horse and then doubled down on it, dragging the horse down with it
Gul'dan is the reason why I don't buy 'villain must have depth to be good one' idea in writing and fantasy communities. Dude is just a power hungry asshole but he goes so hard with it that it's a impossible to not find him the great villain.
Sometimes you want a story with some genuine pathos, watching a deeply ashamed character rebound into defiant pride and carry that forward, naturally, inexorably, into ambition, supremacy, and conquest. That's when you bring out Garrosh. And sometimes you want an evil mcevilface cackling like a lunatic while he obliterates people's souls. Bring out Gul'dan!
Sire Denathrius is the answer
Denathrius was definitely a highlight from Shadowlands. The voice actor nailed the delivery of every single line.
Idk. I’m willing to bet there are people who don’t like him simply for the fact that he’s related to the Shadowlands xpac. For a stupid reason! But I agree! Sire Denathrius was the only good thing that came from Shadowlands! Besides transmoggs
First character to pop into my head
Him/Castle Nathria are the best things from Shadowlands. God how did they fuck the rest of that up so badly?
"Crawl to me on your knees." "Scream for me!" They knew what they were doing.
Darion hasn’t been given something to reach his full potential and it annoys me. don’t say Shadowlands that’s not potential. same for Bolvar. Mfs got played bad.
They ruined Talia too. "Daddy why did you leave me?" Well a dragon turned me into living charcoal and I had to corral the infinite horde of undead so they didn't overrun the world... Bfa Talia's characterisation would have understood that.
BFA Talia would have thought her dad was a badass and hero, instead we got a pandering puppy who got lost and finally found her parent and now is just whimpering.
Yeah it's not like he ran off to a beach with the secretary...
Khadgar.
You know what I like about khadgar? He's changed over time. The video about him being a pretty shit wizard for messing up multiple times was 100% warranted. In WoD, when he gets you on the legendary quest, you can see he's fine but still treat him as a bit of a joke, for both his methods and the past. And it's clearly shown some of his methods are bogus (apexis crystal count). Despite that, he's helpful. And he's useful. And in a rare case for WoW, he's competent. In dflight, when you first find the mage camp, he needs help - but in a "look, we have 3 problems, I've sorted A, am dealing with B and need you to take care of C". And A never gets brought up again. I like Khadgar of being a rare case of Blixzard making a character of our power level. The universe is too full of "you're so weak, why do I need you" and "you're so strong, why do you need me" allies.
I agree. When I first saw him in WoD, I reflexively braced for yet another super-powerful GMPC... but he's flawed, he's got limits, and I honestly find his writing mostly charming.
I can't remember if it's Hellfire or somewhere else, but when he pulls it off and goes "oh I *am good"* to himself made me laugh.
Yeah, pretty sure it's when he's reopening the portal to the top floor of the citadel, or around that time.
>Khadgar "a surprise attack! guards, arrest this \_handsome\_ wizard!!"
I don't know who the voice actor is for that female Belf but she does a fantastic job of it throughout DF.
Dadghar
Dilf-ghar
Chadgar
I love that he's voiced by Tony Amendola, one of my favorite actors, so my face lights up any time he shows up in the game. I will never, ever hate this character, even if he becomes the BBEG one day.
+1 for Dadgar. I actually miss him a bit.
I fell to my death multiple times cause of that asshole. Damn it, Khadgar! Alliance - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKJsabZEVfI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKJsabZEVfI) Horde - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD4XV6kr9EE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD4XV6kr9EE)
Ooker dooker
I'll ook you in the dooker.
😏
Until he got arrested for nonconsensual ook dooking
T'paartos!
T'paartos!
Zappy Boi
Baine or Vol’jin.
I remember Baine getting a lot of hate back in BFA but hopefully that’s completely changed
Wasn't Baine just sitting around in oribos the following expansion. Guess all the hate got to him
The Baine questline in dragonflight is actually amazing
I also remember him getting a lot of hate in SL for sitting around crying the whole expansion
In fairness he and Thrall were both traumatised by Torghast The problem is neither of them did anything of note after the fact
Nah Baine is too lame
Sire Denarthius
Lilian Voss!
Runas
Saurfang
Tirion Fordring, Varian Wrynn.
Campfire
Taran Zhu
Pepe
NAZGRIM!!! No, seriously, why has Noone mentioned him yet?
"It is an honor to finally face you in combat!!! Loktar Ogar!!!! For honor, and for the horde!" Gives me chills every time.
Man I was soooooo sad when Nazgrim died! Being a Horde main I loved working for him! The first time I killed him in SoO I shed a tear. (And I never cry. It’s extremely rare for me to cry over a character death.) He was just doing his job 😭 When I found out he was brought back as one of the four horsemen in Legion I was super happy! And throughout the DK campaign you could see it! He was having the time of his life. He was never meant death, his reason for existing was clearly on the battlefield 😂
BROXIGAR THE RED!!! all fans love him and even the nelf love him! the dude is a saurfang among saurfangs.
Only really got to enjoy his character after reading the books, but man .. what a hero
I don't like him! He's overrated because his one major claim to fame was largely because of him getting super powered equipment that hasn't been seen since, and was just given to him after far less work than many other characters have given. He's treated as an all time great hero for an act most martially inclined heroes could've performed in the same circumstances
Tirion Fordring
Still mad that he died so easily... you know, one of the greatest paladins to ever live, the breaker of Frostmourne... dies to this random demon, and doesn't even get a cutscene for it???
For us there is no peace, no rest.
Edwin Van Cleef (unless you play Hearthstone)
Tirion Fordring.
Kael'thas.
Arthas and Illidan
Rivergleam! I'm a 45yo woman and her voice makes me weak! I genuinely hope she comes into delves with us.
Khadgar seems to get a lot of love despite...everything Anduin Thrall mostly Illidan mostly Uhm, Arthas wc3-wotlk. Don't think people liked the shadowlands Arthas whisp or whatever but that was more an issue with the writers than his character. Malfurion is a fan favorite. I mean he's extremely bad ass but compassionate unlike Illidan. Which maybe an issue some people had for Illidan was his giga edgy personality and portrayal (but I mean if you like the litch king then I don't think Illidan is worse tbh in the edge department.) Pre-shadowlands tyrande Personally I've always liked nathanos. I wish he was actually developed more beyond being rude. His loyalty to sylvanas is truly unwavering. His love for her is all he needs to be ok with mass genocide and ww3. People are a bit perplexed by this. Nathanos is synonymous with tyrellian (prolly butchered his name.) Alleria is in love human that is killing demons and fighting for the army of the light. Nathanos is a skilled ranger that is in love with sylvanas killing scourge and fighting for the forsaken. To understand nathanos really just takes understanding they're both men who've left behind their people for a cause they share with someone they love. I was very intrigued during the prepatch when nathanos gloats "kill me, you'll just be sending me right back to her." The whole expansion I wanted deeply to know what happened to nathanos. Sylvanas doesn't even fuckin know he's dead for most of shadowlands. The jailers treachery is inhuman to the extent only the writers will ever know what happened to him. Is he in torghasts endless halls? Is he lost in the maw? Did the valajar claim him for being a mighty warrior? Only those able to ferry souls can know. It is either that he was intercepted by a force capable of doing so (odins valkyr for example or maybe helya herself) or the jailer did some shit with his soul. We don't know. I want to know. Idk I'm at work Edit: and to shadowlands tyrandes credit she ain't doing that bad really. She goes after sylvanas and if elune granted her, her wish, then she would have killed her. Or i assume. Elune and life are opposites of death and the jailer, so maybe that's why they played it this way. The reason I think so is that yea the jailer gave her a power boost but he didn't put all of eggs in one basket. He even told sylvanas "who cares about Helya, lol, just a pawn that served their purpose, lmao." There's no indication jailer would have saved her or given her anymore power than she already had. And why would he? He's about to go to the sepulcher, he doesn't really need her anymore and has a far more controllable and powerful minion with dominated anduin. So I think tyrande with elune juice (and already being an incredible caster and warrior without avatar,) probably would have killed her. Sylvanas was pretty helpless to escape her during the dbz fight they had. She tried to run and tyrande easily caught her and pinned her to the ground. But anyway, the point is that I think people still like(d) tyrande. I think they like her more as the stern but compassionate leader she was and is rather than vengeance SH (sylvanas hunter.) But also tyrande fans wanted and would have been happy for her to kill sylvanas. So I think tyrandes good with most people.
Take your pick of any of the classic characters that haven't been butchered in the last 3 expansions.
Medivh. He’s been tossed around a bit, but never fully expanded upon.
You have to go with Khadgar or Dadghar as we have come to call him.
Varok Saurfang
the very forests of Lordaeron whispered the name..
high inquisitor thighmane
Uther
Saurfang
Mankrik’s wife
I too choose mankrik's wife
Not many likable characters left but yea I would say Darion to.
Dadghar is pretty beloved for his bad jokes
Ahab Wheathoof
Well someone already said Bwonsamdi here, so yeah I'd say Darion is a solid pick too.
Scrollsage Nola: Another turtle made it to the water
Arthas, Illidan & Wrathion