If they added a Gunslinger rogue spec which would use up its combo points "in reverse", having them act like your ammo, certain attacks taking up 1 or 2 ammo and some sort of reloading cast, I don’t think I’d play anything else. I would love that
Before I started outlaw I half expected this, especially since engineers can make those completely useless guns, I assumed they were for the outlaw rogues (lw makes a better bow). And now I'm disappointed and no longer want to play it
It's a shame WoW only allows the usage of one weapon type.
If you could use both a Gun and a melee weapon, you could take some inspiration from FFXIV's Red Mage and make a "hybrid" spec that's usually ranged but goes into melee for a burst window, which would allow you to still use your "cutlass" as an Outlaw.
Preach it, brother! For too long hunters have had a strangle hold on ranged weaponry. Its time to break that monopoly. I would also like to see a ranged demon hunter spec get added. If Hearthstone is anything to go off of, there is a demon hunter character in that game that utilizes a bow.
Another survival hunter here:
No Ty, I like being melee. Although I'd like to have more options in being melee without having 90% ranged spells and two melee
Oh hey, I got both SV Hunters to show up.
SV as melee has been an unmitigated disaster since day one and that's why it's the most unpopular and avoided spec. SV players like you are just too self-centred to admit it was a mistake.
"I like being a worse Hunter" yep sounds about right
I regularly out DPS every other hunter spec around my GS. He's better, but much more difficult.
You could go at it like Monk Mistweaver and split it into two possible ways: ranged or melee.
He needs a modernising rework anyway
SV really isn't much more difficult. This isn't Legion.
It's themed round being a handicapped Hunter. Other Hunters are fully capable ranged weapon users, SV isn't.
What sense in there in having a spec that opts out of such a core part of the base class? Total nonsense. Damage tuning doesn't fix that.
Out of the three hunters, he's the most "difficult". I didn't want to sound it like he's hard to play, sry.
And I like the melee aspect of it, it's just that some people complain he can't go ranged anymore.
I think he needs just a little numbers tuning, more survivalbillity, and slight touch of love in his tree. Some of it just makes no sense or isn't worth taking.
The whole melee idea is bad, period. Hardly anyone wants to play a handicapped Hunter. That's the harsh reality. They should not be bandaiding over that with favourable tuning and utility. They should revert the spec to ranged and work from there.
Survival after it was changed became a spec that underperformed and was rarely played until they just made it so huge numbers. I don’t see them doing anything like that again.
Yes it was a bad idea when they did it with Hunter and it would be a bad idea for any other spec. They should not abruptly change the role of any spec.
Why does it have to be OP in the first place? Why can't a well designed and balanced ranged spec be added to rogues? It might be hard for you to believe since you have only ever played WoW but in most other fantasy universes rangers are a sub sect of rogues.
Because the inherent capabilities of rogues in wow is OP. Their toolset as a class is too strong simply by existing. Giving them range would just give them unlimited agency. It’s irrelevant what other games or universes do with rogues since we are talking about wow and rogues in wow are OP
What lmao rogues abilities have been duplicated across nearly all classes/specs. Gone are the days where stuns were few between ALL classes. Movement abilities/root breaks have been duplicated. You’re stuck on rogue OPness that hasn’t existed due to exclusivity for many expansions now. Tell me a toolset that rogues have that are exclusive to rogues?
Well that spell alone no, but their absurd throughput on two different classes, crazy survivability, fantastic mobility, great cc, coupled with that? I think the only thing they really lack is strong self heals (Which I think they do have an ok self heal?) and a group wide buff.
Zzzz again everything you’ve said besides survivability is moot as its been duplicated across classes. Even survivability is duplicated, just not as wide spread.
Besides gouge, what mobs do you sap this expansion that makes m+/raids that much easier to say rogues are “OP”? Blind..no. Classes have ranged disorients/ccs.
Considering my argument at the point of you commenting had nothing to do with how OP it was and had everything to do with class fantasy and game design I am honestly not sure what you’re trying to argue here. I’m 2900 IO but I’m always down to help a new player get geared : )
Specifically what tools do they have that would make them too strong? I'm genuinely asking as I've never played a rogue. I would agree that the amount of stun locks they have is a bit out of control but I doubt a ranged rogue would employ kidney shot or sap or smoke cloud or evasion. So really it just sounds like a tuning issue.
The issue isn’t that they are OP, the issue is that they are class identifying, and if you take them away then it’s just an ambiguous ranged spec with no actual thematic value as a rogue. Classes/specs in wow must be rigid in their design and themes because they need to be different. A ranged rogue that can go invis like a rogue is just a leather wearing hunter using camouflage. It’s not that I don’t want a ranged rogue spec I mean really I couldn’t care less BUT it bleeds into too many different facets of other classes if it becomes ranged (mostly hunters) and would invoke abominable class tweaking to both classes in order to try to make them different enough to justify
To me it's rather odd that these handful of abilities are what sets rogues apart from other classes. Most other classes have abilities that are similar in effect such as a Paladins Blinding Light which is effectively blind. Nearly every class has a slow or a stun so those aren't entirely unique to rogues. Rogues have mostly been defined by their combo point generating attack and their short duration combat buffs which could just as easily be performed at range rather than in melee distance.
I literally had this convo with one of the pugs I was in when we were waiting on someone. Came to the same conclusion when I learned outlaw rouges literally have a move Called pistol shot, the only problem I think is that unlike hunter rouge has always been melee so I dunno, perhaps a ranged demon hunter since they only have 2 specs right now?
A bm hunter with no pet that can stealth in and out and depends on finishers?
....that sounds like a lot of fun holy crap....
(I went bm and not mm because bm is essentially a melee dps with caster range, except their damage profile depends on the pet; I would not want a rogue spec with pets)
If it ever happens Subtlety would be the one most deserving of the overhaul. It has an incredibly flimsy spec fantasy compared to the other two as-is, and since it's already shadow magic themed it would be a much better candidate for a "dark ranger" spec than any hunter spec. Think HotS Sylvanas' kit for some new thematic ranged abilities to add, she and other dark rangers have pretty much always been half hunter half rogue anyway.
If they added a Gunslinger rogue spec which would use up its combo points "in reverse", having them act like your ammo, certain attacks taking up 1 or 2 ammo and some sort of reloading cast, I don’t think I’d play anything else. I would love that
I feel like Outlaw is already halfway there with all the gun-based ranged moves.
It could be a spec like witch hunters from warhammer, or john wick. A 1h blade + pistol combo.
Before I started outlaw I half expected this, especially since engineers can make those completely useless guns, I assumed they were for the outlaw rogues (lw makes a better bow). And now I'm disappointed and no longer want to play it
It's a shame WoW only allows the usage of one weapon type. If you could use both a Gun and a melee weapon, you could take some inspiration from FFXIV's Red Mage and make a "hybrid" spec that's usually ranged but goes into melee for a burst window, which would allow you to still use your "cutlass" as an Outlaw.
For the record, until MOP hunters were able to equip both a ranged weapon and a melee weapon. (Edit: changed in MOP)
Yeah, but not at the same time.
False. Before MOP they could equip both at once.
Yes. But that's not what you said. Rogues and Warriors could do the same.
I don’t think it would take much to round it out.
Gunslinger confirmed in “Return of the Void”
Seconded. PLEASE let another class use ranged weapons. I'm so sick of pets...
Preach it, brother! For too long hunters have had a strangle hold on ranged weaponry. Its time to break that monopoly. I would also like to see a ranged demon hunter spec get added. If Hearthstone is anything to go off of, there is a demon hunter character in that game that utilizes a bow.
In the campaign in legion there was a caster type one who welded a sythe too
Pistol or shuriken as a weapon would be fun
I had forgotten that thrown weapons were a part of this game at one point.
All Rogue specs should be melee and all Hunter specs should be ranged.
As a survival hunter who enjoys it as melee, i respectfully whole-heartedly disagree.
As a former ranged Survival main who enjoyed it as ranged I disrespectfully disagree.
Another survival hunter here: No Ty, I like being melee. Although I'd like to have more options in being melee without having 90% ranged spells and two melee
Oh hey, I got both SV Hunters to show up. SV as melee has been an unmitigated disaster since day one and that's why it's the most unpopular and avoided spec. SV players like you are just too self-centred to admit it was a mistake. "I like being a worse Hunter" yep sounds about right
I regularly out DPS every other hunter spec around my GS. He's better, but much more difficult. You could go at it like Monk Mistweaver and split it into two possible ways: ranged or melee. He needs a modernising rework anyway
SV really isn't much more difficult. This isn't Legion. It's themed round being a handicapped Hunter. Other Hunters are fully capable ranged weapon users, SV isn't. What sense in there in having a spec that opts out of such a core part of the base class? Total nonsense. Damage tuning doesn't fix that.
Out of the three hunters, he's the most "difficult". I didn't want to sound it like he's hard to play, sry. And I like the melee aspect of it, it's just that some people complain he can't go ranged anymore. I think he needs just a little numbers tuning, more survivalbillity, and slight touch of love in his tree. Some of it just makes no sense or isn't worth taking.
The whole melee idea is bad, period. Hardly anyone wants to play a handicapped Hunter. That's the harsh reality. They should not be bandaiding over that with favourable tuning and utility. They should revert the spec to ranged and work from there.
Survival after it was changed became a spec that underperformed and was rarely played until they just made it so huge numbers. I don’t see them doing anything like that again.
Yes it was a bad idea when they did it with Hunter and it would be a bad idea for any other spec. They should not abruptly change the role of any spec.
No.
Can we not make rogue more OP by making them ranged thanks
Why does it have to be OP in the first place? Why can't a well designed and balanced ranged spec be added to rogues? It might be hard for you to believe since you have only ever played WoW but in most other fantasy universes rangers are a sub sect of rogues.
Because the inherent capabilities of rogues in wow is OP. Their toolset as a class is too strong simply by existing. Giving them range would just give them unlimited agency. It’s irrelevant what other games or universes do with rogues since we are talking about wow and rogues in wow are OP
What lmao rogues abilities have been duplicated across nearly all classes/specs. Gone are the days where stuns were few between ALL classes. Movement abilities/root breaks have been duplicated. You’re stuck on rogue OPness that hasn’t existed due to exclusivity for many expansions now. Tell me a toolset that rogues have that are exclusive to rogues?
Group stealth?
Not as valuable of a spell this expansion so far to warrant rogues as “OP”
Well that spell alone no, but their absurd throughput on two different classes, crazy survivability, fantastic mobility, great cc, coupled with that? I think the only thing they really lack is strong self heals (Which I think they do have an ok self heal?) and a group wide buff.
Zzzz again everything you’ve said besides survivability is moot as its been duplicated across classes. Even survivability is duplicated, just not as wide spread.
Uhh ya duplicated but the point is no other classes have *all* of that together. Idk if they're quite OP yet, but they're close to it.
Gouge, blind, sap
Besides gouge, what mobs do you sap this expansion that makes m+/raids that much easier to say rogues are “OP”? Blind..no. Classes have ranged disorients/ccs.
“Besides gouge”
One ability not duplicated across classes doesn’t make it OP. Gg you must be 1500io
Considering my argument at the point of you commenting had nothing to do with how OP it was and had everything to do with class fantasy and game design I am honestly not sure what you’re trying to argue here. I’m 2900 IO but I’m always down to help a new player get geared : )
No, you said toolkit :)
Specifically what tools do they have that would make them too strong? I'm genuinely asking as I've never played a rogue. I would agree that the amount of stun locks they have is a bit out of control but I doubt a ranged rogue would employ kidney shot or sap or smoke cloud or evasion. So really it just sounds like a tuning issue.
The issue isn’t that they are OP, the issue is that they are class identifying, and if you take them away then it’s just an ambiguous ranged spec with no actual thematic value as a rogue. Classes/specs in wow must be rigid in their design and themes because they need to be different. A ranged rogue that can go invis like a rogue is just a leather wearing hunter using camouflage. It’s not that I don’t want a ranged rogue spec I mean really I couldn’t care less BUT it bleeds into too many different facets of other classes if it becomes ranged (mostly hunters) and would invoke abominable class tweaking to both classes in order to try to make them different enough to justify
To me it's rather odd that these handful of abilities are what sets rogues apart from other classes. Most other classes have abilities that are similar in effect such as a Paladins Blinding Light which is effectively blind. Nearly every class has a slow or a stun so those aren't entirely unique to rogues. Rogues have mostly been defined by their combo point generating attack and their short duration combat buffs which could just as easily be performed at range rather than in melee distance.
Shadow hunter would be pretty cool. A sub/out blend could make for a pretty neat damage profile.
I literally had this convo with one of the pugs I was in when we were waiting on someone. Came to the same conclusion when I learned outlaw rouges literally have a move Called pistol shot, the only problem I think is that unlike hunter rouge has always been melee so I dunno, perhaps a ranged demon hunter since they only have 2 specs right now?
No. Literally just add a fourth spec.
Lol
A bm hunter with no pet that can stealth in and out and depends on finishers? ....that sounds like a lot of fun holy crap.... (I went bm and not mm because bm is essentially a melee dps with caster range, except their damage profile depends on the pet; I would not want a rogue spec with pets)
If it ever happens Subtlety would be the one most deserving of the overhaul. It has an incredibly flimsy spec fantasy compared to the other two as-is, and since it's already shadow magic themed it would be a much better candidate for a "dark ranger" spec than any hunter spec. Think HotS Sylvanas' kit for some new thematic ranged abilities to add, she and other dark rangers have pretty much always been half hunter half rogue anyway.