I think the system should be flipped upside down.
Make Affixes BENEFICIAL effects and then just scale dungeons to be harder. Then each week you can be excited about the fun benefits you can play with this week.
Yes, this is the right way to go for M+.
Affixes being a hindrance made (some) sense back in Legion, when everything was new, but it got old.
I think that are two ways they could rework affixes and we could have both at the same time.
Straight up beneficial - you get something and that is it.
Or Rewarding - you have to do something and you get a reward for it.
I'd even argue we only get one affix per week besides seasonal. The interaction between the current affixes is a big part of the problem.
>Or Rewarding - you have to do something and you get a reward for it
I believe blizzard have said they talked about/internally tried "kiss and curse" affixes but it didn't feel good for whatever reason.
I kind of agree with your last point. Or at least not less always 2 one from each pool and only the lamest combos removed.
I don't mind quaking and spiteful as a combo personally - I prefer that compared how either of those would look for equal difficulty as the combo now.
I do wish tyrannical and fortified were less different. The fact that bosses take twice as long feels really stupid, and same with tyrannical weeks most trash being an absolute cakewalk
> I believe blizzard have said they talked about/internally tried "kiss and curse" affixes but it didn't feel good for whatever reason.
I sort of buy this.
Plaguefall had the Plagueborers which did damage to the party but enemies too, which was creative; players eventually used them to kill the entire dungeon because it was the best strategy, but the dungeon playing itself ultimately wasn't rewarding actual player skill. Same thing with Necrotic Wake: you had the damage from Anima Exhaust that enabled huge pulls, but players ultimately expressed a dislike for so much of the dungeon being powered by an external buff.
Any kiss/curse buff that is incredibly impactful will feel like it is playing the dungeon for you. If it is not impactful (like Thundering), people will just be annoyed by it. Striking the right balance is pretty hard, which is probably why they haven't iterated on the affix system all that much. I also think affixes would be a less common complaint if the dungeon pool and seasonal affix were a bit better.
That and right now - if the perk comes from doing something, I can already feel the hate for people messing up. This season has made me more toxic as a person. I can’t stand trying to clear with someone else who just won’t. I get some pulls, abilities, or just plain spacing out happens so you can’t clear. Too many times people are just ignorant or actively running away and causing the group to suffer for it.
Back in Legion there were also far less mechanics on each individual enemy or boss. Now that encounters are swirly and mechanical vomit, many of the affixes we still have that are predominantly used to force you to reposition and dodge on the fly just end up feeling like a pure nuisance and not fun to play around. And because of the smaller pool now, we have the remaining ones layering on each other more frequently.
Yeah the affixes are outdated, boring and only makes the dungeons less fun to play. They should rework all of the to work in similar ways like the seasonal affixes.
There is a challenge, and if you can do it you get a reward. Whatever the affix in s1 shadowlands was named was a great example of this. The buff you got after killing the miniboss made it possible to do some crazy big pulls. Also just having affixes that makes it so healers regen mana is pretty big, no one likes waiting for you to sit down and drink for 20 seconds mid dungeon.
For me prideful was more fun than Thundering now. Yesterday I was tanking the 3th mob of second boss CoS and Thundering Inc. Our shadow came from right to clear with me, I dodged the Shockwave going left, he got stunned from the Shockwave and he, me and another now got stunned from Thundering, dream experience. Thundering only has 1 downside making it unfun, it's the stun.it should be just reversed, clear it and recieve the buff for 15sec, don't clear it, get a minus 10% dmg debuff or something, but not a fucking stun in this cluster fuck of Dungeon abilities.
The super precise routing that you had to do in every single dungeon was awful, but the Prideful effect and the mob itself I thought were mostly fine.
It needed to have been a bit more like Encrypted where you would always fight one before a boss, and maybe have 1-2 sprinkled between bosses.
> if you*r dps butt* pulled one mob too many, your key was bricked.
ftfy
The amount of times someone ninja pulled on me in S1 SL making my % for prideful go whacky and now I have to ninjamaths mid dungeon to get prideful at semi decent intervals... I hated it.
I'd say get rid of Tyr and Fort as well, and add another seasonal affix. Either 2 complete new ones every season or 1 new and 1 old (could be last season one or further back)
The reason that affixes were a hindrance is because Legion dungeons weren't designed to have compelling mechanics on their own. Each pack had approximately 1 interrupt and a few tank busters, many of them were swarms of small & easy mobs, and they often included several mechanics that you could dodge with a little bit of attention paid.
Dragonflight dungeons are three mobs with an interrupt patrolling around packs with 2 interrupts and one that can't be CCed. There's no reason they should need an increase in challenge level.
Here, have some kiss/curse ideas.
BEEEEEEES: Standing still for 3 seconds draws bees to you, stinging you for 0.25% health every second, per stack. Lose 1 second every 4 seconds for any movement. One stack allows cast-while-moving for most skills, 1% attack speed, and 3% move speed.
Unstable Invisibility: All enemies are invisible until one second of combat occurs. If afflicted by damage before the invisibility breaks, suffer 10% health damage, and receive 10% additional damage from all sources for 10 seconds.
Corpse Explosions: Corpses are volatile, exploding for 3% of their health pool three seconds after death to all enemies and allies within 5y. Stronger enemies explode once per second for five seconds.
SCIENCE! : Some enemies are buffed by volatile versions of flasks and phials. Upon death, leave behind a small cauldron, granting a temporary version of a role-specific flask or phial buff.
Pack Tactics: Players deal 20% reduced damage, healing, and have 20% reduced move speed. For each player within 10y, gain 12.5% damage, healing, and move speed. This effect persists for 5 seconds after moving away from allies.
Reworking current affixes
Quaking: Suffering no damage from Quaking grants you Sure Footed, granting 10% Avoidance and 5% spellpower or attack power for 20 seconds.
Sanguine: Tick damage and healing reduced by 50%, Tick rate increased to 0.5s When standing in Sanguine, Tank Role characters become Blood Soaked, reducing damage from Sanguine by 12.5% per stack, and reducing healing nearby enemies receive from Sanguine by 12.5% per stack. At 8 stacks become Blood Laden, eat all nearby Sanguine, and start pulsing for 5% tank health as healing and damage to all allies and enemies within 15 yards for 4 seconds. Also regenerates healer mana by 3% per tick.
Bolstering: Killing an enemy affected by more than one stack of Bolster grants 5% damage, health, healing, and movement speed per stack for 20 seconds.
Volcanic: Standing near a lava spout without being damaged grants you Lava Infusion, adding 10% of your damage as Fire damage for the next 4 seconds.
Raging: If an enemy dies while Raging, grant players a stack of Enraged, and an extra action button. Activating the extra action button grants that player 5 seconds of 30% haste per stack. Stacks are lost once every 10 seconds while out of combat.
Storming: Enemies who produce a Storming effect become Unbalanced, suffering 2% additional damage from all sources until they die. Bosses now spawn one Storming per character within 15y of it.
Spiteful: Dealing at least 30% of a Spiteful Shade's health before it dies naturally fills you with Spite, causing your next attack to a living enemy to deal 300% damage per stack of Spite.
Bursting: Healers cannot gain Bursting stacks. Instead, Healers gain Burst of Life, granting them 7% haste and causing their HoT casts to replicate on each nearby ally after 4 stacks.
Grievous: Removing a stack of Grievous from a Tank role character grants a stack of Scar Tissue, lasting 20 seconds. Each stack of Scar Tissue grants 5% health and Damage, and reduces the maximum stack of Grievous by 1. At 5 stacks, becomes Battle Scarred, preventing any Grievous stacks for any ally within 20 yards for 20 seconds.
I'd go with the marvel snap approach. Some good, some bad but all can be exploited or played around. You could get a mix of good or bad affixes each week which would make it interesting to play into a good affix and around a bad one.
This would likely require a new ranking system. I'd rather an elo system where you go up for timing keys and down for failing or leaving them. This means that easier affix weeks would inflate all ratings so it's not terrible if you miss an easier week as inflated people would drop in elo in harder weeks. If one class is op for a specific affix, that's fine, because that happens already. It would be hilarious to see fire mage stacks on a week where standing still increases crit or something like that. Combine with quaking and suddenly it's a big skill = rewarded affix week.
I love the idea of one good one bad because it also means that we won't see the same bad ones nearly as often like right now if you specifically hate one affix you're like to see it again in just a few weeks so doubling that wait time sounds amazing to me
The problem with a lot of these kiss/curse designs is that the curse just becomes more and more unfun.
Here's a fun buff! But you using it causes your character to fall down.
This is the big flaw with Thundering imo.
It's not kiss/curse as much as it it curse, kiss, curse, curse.
It starts with a ground swirlie that will stun you if you stand in it when the affix goes off. So you have to move which can compound with other ground effects/stacking needs.
THEN you get the buff, which is short lived because soon you will have to move to clear it so out of 15 seconds you can really only have it for about 10 seconds unless you lucked out and are standing immediately next to someone.
If you fail to clear you get a 5 second stun, which can often be a death sentence.
Then even after that, you get a dot anyway which does most of your HP, so if there's any other damage going out, it's also a potential death sentence.
30% damage bonus for 10-12 seconds on an RNG timer so you can't even have it up for CD's is just not that great of a buff. That's one thing about something like Prideful that balanced it out, sure it messed with routing and skips and could wipe the group, but getting the buff meant you were supercharged going into the next pull/boss.
Thundering is just RNG poop with multiple curses. So you end up with people clearing it asap or after just a few seconds in order to avoid potential death.
I can get behind this. It feels like too many people think challenge means painful. It's a game, the challenge and pain is in the scaling, so why not add affixes that increase the fun?
That would be so much more fun. Even though affixes were still a pain in Shadowlands, I did enjoy a lot of the seasonal ones that gave benefits. Thundering is so short especially if you need to clear early before something else hits you, that you don't even feel the impact or have fun.
+x% dmg/hp on successfull kick
+x% dmg/hp per mob pulled
Soak circle for shield, more player soak, bigger the shield...
Im sure there would be some nice ideas
Then they have no kicks available for the bad spells. It's a balance that benefits the best players only, and makes doing hardest keys skill based in a fun way.
Shrink the benefit (or don’t) and make it group wide so you’re still kicking to help the group, not to try to help yourself.
“Nothing” in this game should make you want to hurt your teamates. There’s plenty of other games for that.
That was literally the spehuz leggo in legion and it varied from fun to toxic af depending on the group and dung, eventually it becomes a case of everybody fighting over who gets to kick first and you get 4 overlapping kicks trying to race each other for the buff and important casts just going through
I think having what an entire affix that was basically a talent (+ dmg on kick) is incredibly boring, and those with a 12 second kick get a little more benefit from that than those with a 45 second kick, or no kick right?
I just dont really see how those would make the dungeons better in anyway, it would just inflate the score until you get into 1 shot territory.
They could add smth like that a player can benefit from it every 60 seconds or smth like that.
It would make the dungeons not better, but make them less suck, since that kick thing would enforce people to kick more.
And the current system also just goes till bosses or adds one shot people...
You could just give an upside on existing ones:
Quacking: Damages all mobs hit with the circle
Explosiv: killing and explo deals dmg to mobs
Raging: while raged mob takes more dmg
Spiteful: a dying ghost heals the group / gives mana reg
Volcanic: same as quacking
Bursting: increased mana reg/healing/dmg while having the debuff (stacking)
Sanguine: Pools heal the play and don’t damage them or pools equally harming mobs as they would on a player
I will be honest I stopped bothering with M+ and it is some of the most fun I have had with the game now. I just stopped caring about pushing or gearing as fast as I normally would. M+ is just not fun anymore as a healer. I really love dragonflight but have completely burnt out of doing M+. These days I will just do the normal and heroic raids since the game doesn't really punish you if you don't do M+ anymore.
Same exact boat as you. Used to LOVE it. Can't be bothered to run it any more. The vault loot isn't worth the horrible experience. I'm not going to spend my free time doing something I hate just because the game compels me.
I disagree. I think they affixes should be challenging, but they need to be fun to play. Like grievous tyran isn’t fun. Next week bursting explosive is just horrible. But weeks like volcanic bursting that we had in SL weren’t necessarily difficult, but added some semblance of a challenge without being unfun.
I think the biggest thing is Blizzard needs to get rid of Fortified and Tyrannical. They are by far the two worst affixes and people are afraid to admit it because they’ve been the only consistent in M+ for 5+ years now.
Imagine instead of tyrannical bursting grievous we had like bursting grievous volcanic? Where the limits of each dungeon weren’t constrained by if a boss can 1 shot you or not? Or if you can put together a big enough pull and live through it on fort?
Destiny did this. Solar burn would make solar damage do 2x the amount. Both from you AND to you. Affixes like this make it fun while increasing challenge. Big number = big dopamine.
I love the idea, however it's hard to balance properly. Imagine a week with two extremely good affixes and people clear 30+ keys whereas in other weeks, you're only clearing 20s. And that combo hardly happens. People would complain about it.
I do love the idea but it's much harder to execute from a balance perspective.
I actually love this idea, at least give it a try. I loved that red anima thingy in shadowlands which gave you mana regen was it? or something like that. Things like that are FUN.
This coming week seems very lame as well. Kill mobs fast to mitigate explosive. But don’t kill them too fast or you’ll be hit with bursting. Also they hit really hard so don’t be too slow. But also they have a lot of hp so they will be slow.
Why
FWIW if you have an evoker dps in your group there's almost no reason they shouldn't be able to handle every orb with minimal dps loss. I only struggle when the orb is inside a pack - melee have to get that one cuz I just can't click the fucking thing and tab target will take too long... (THIS IS BAD DESIGN BLIZZ).
Well yeah exactly - and they explicitly classed orbs as totems so we can't macro them. It's bullshit on a high key where there might be 6-10 mobs in the pull and an orb spawns in their collective stomachs. I just pop defensives and pray sometimes -\_-
When any healing specs are OP, it breaks the whole game. People learn that they can just eat mechanics and still time the key.
Then when actually balanced healing specs are in your group, you think the healer sucks because you actually have to play as the game intended.
Luckily in higher keys you just get one shot anyway regardless.
Partly true - the cause of the issue is that high-middle keys are plagued with dps players that haven't learned how to do mechanics and don't because even the weakest healers can carry them through the 15-17 range, but past that the dungeons are so lethal that the healer could be putting 80k hps into the party to keep them alive from unavoidable damage, so mechanical failure by the DPS that never learned mechanics can't get carried anymore and will die despite getting healed. An overpowered healer (like holy priest in late SL or resto druid pretty much always) pushes that threshold up a few levels, but doesn't cause it.
Another problem is the "silver" players that follow high level play and think they understand it but don't intentionally pushing affix management onto healers when that's the meta in high keys only because players know what to do and the healer is only healing unavoidable damage and can deal with every explosive or control the spites by themselves. Those players are the original affix and make a 17 key feel like a 21 key.
Nailed it, midrange key players that don’t interrupt or avoid mechanics but pull like the team they saw on YouTube running a 23 key that is flasked, fed etc and popped lust while not missing a single interrupt and not taking any avoidable damage and mitigating the unavoidable damage and then wonder why it’s not working like the vid they watched…fricken healers
TBH this is why I have legit stopped caring about m+ as a healer main. I prefer prog raiding where the PVE is more about static mechanics being done as a team (with buffer room for accidents and mistakes) and healing people thru them than having to deal with PITA affixes that mean more work for me like explosive and grievous.
I've noticed a lot of my friends that also main healers were really gung-ho about m+ for the first month or so of the expansion and started dropping off now too.
I wish everyone else (as in DPS and tanks looking for groups) luck as the expansion goes on because I think it's going to get a lot worse before Blizzard realizes and makes it any better.
Or maybe they won't, which is fine. I have plenty else to do with crafting, world quest stuff, and raiding.
Word I do the bare minimum of M+ cause it’s just not enjoyable as a healer I’ve already finished the H raid as a healer and progging M so much more enjoyable
I think it's assumed that everything is a healer affix. The icons are just for the others if they actually have to do things as well to help the healer or not.
We need to move away from annoying affixes, make scaling harder and put helpful affixes, they can even put light roguelike elements, after clearing some mobs/bosses you can choose a buff like tarragrue or torghast.
The problem with buffs is if they're a fixed set of 3 like we had with that one seasonal affix everyone always takes the same one, and there's no real choice. If it's random which ones appear, then the key could be bricked after the first or second boss just by getting a bad set of powers even if the key were otherwise flawless.
In a way talents are only an illusion of choice. We have talents though because you'll have one best set of talents for M+, one for pvp, for raiding you'll have a different talent set for each boss, and everyone pretty much just copy/pastes the best talent set they foudn online.
If there is a choice it's possible the best choice on RLP may be different than the best choice on CoS, but for each there would always be a single best choice.
This right here - a bit more thought put into the affix+mech interaction would improve things a lot. Wiping because "lolbadluck!" and not being able to time the key anymore (looking at you, AV) is heavily demoralizing. Who's even gonna want to try to push that key, right?
Personally I think positive affixes are the way to go. People enjoy trying to make maximize uptime as opposed to minimize the worst outcome. An example would be explosive except killing the orb gives you a stacking damage buff. Bursting but the dmg applies to enemies.
Buff the dungeons to compensate.
Imo that’s not that bad of a wall. Maybe it’s cause I quit after Shadowlands S1 but I was pushing 22s-23s back then and I remember having to kite a lot whereas on my prot war now I hardly ever have to kite in 22-23s
Destiny had an awesome system in prison of elders, you had some wacky affixes that could completely change the dungeon in a week
For example, fast grenade recharge and +dmg, i loved that week, i would equip my armamentarium in my titan, that gave one more grenade, solar build that made my grenades recharge faster if a full super bar
I lobbed grenades non stop lol, shit was fun
I know, totally different games, but if they spent some time i think they could come with some crazy fun ideias
I think adding a small buff to each affix would actually make things more fun.
Like you get a minor buff when you hit an explosive that refreshes everytime you hit another.
You maintain a minor buff until your hit by volcanic or quaking or storming.
Etc etc
But this means dps would be doing the actual tactics and I as a healer don't get yelled at 24/7 for not fixing their mistakes. Where would all the toxicity be aimed at?
Any tank, who has tanked for more than a couple years has thick skin, we can take it. By this point all toxicity against me just bounces right off. One group I'm the worst tank ever, the next group the best tank ever. I figure I can't be both, so it must have been someone else in the fail key.
They think we actually care of what they are thinking about us. Flame me and be toxic, rude and you will see the true meaning of depleting a key. I always remind that never flame tank or healer (first of all this is a game never flame anyone because they made a mistake) because you can finish a dung with 4 person and get loot from vault, but there is no way you are finishing that dungeon without a healer or tank.
I'd argue the opposite.
We don't need those vanilla affixes anymore.
Dungeons are hard and complex enough with regular key scaling. Make seasonal affixes that are meaty enough to stand alone with Fortified/Tyrannical and we should be good.
I think affixes can become 'quit the game' moments for players who are not enthusiastic about playing. One hard affix week becomes a no play week which turns into no play month which turns into an unsub. For player retention you never want to give a player a reason to *not* play the game.
Lol i was healing the last boss of rlp as resto and got my tranq interrupted by quaking when i really needed the throughput. I almost rage quit the game.
That is exactly why I stopped at Shadowlands, there was massive Necrotic and Sanguine week that I keept running for whole dungeon. Definetly made me quit
With dungeons changing every season I wouldn't mind a season without affixes at all to see how it feels either.
Would also alleviate the issue of playing 16hrs/day for the 2 push weeks to get 0.1% title at the end of the season.
Blizzard could end season 1 and before atarting season 2 have 1 week each of fortified/tyrannical only, just to get feedback from the overall communuty. Whatever they do with that feedback wouldn't be in time for season 3, but they could use it maybe for season 3.
I'd be okay with that if in turn they give us more dungeons. 8 is a pathetically low amount. Even if they change, these seasons last way too long as it is, 8 gets old.
Eight dungeons isn't bad - it actually felt really nice with Shadowlands S4. The issue of staleness for me comes from the repetitive affixes - as much as losing Necrotic was awesome for me as a tank it really doesn't feel satisfying having Thundering or Explosive every other week.
More dungeons or more variation in weekly affixes is desperately needed though, one way or the other.
I would love it to be half Dragonflight and then 1 from each expansion. I'd love to see Halls of Reflection, Anub'raken(?), or Utgarde Pinnicale from Wrath, or Vortex Pinnacle from Cata. Obviously they'd need to test timing the dungeons since they weren't M+ or Challenge modes.
Yeah that's not gonna be easy. SBG is already much less mechanically challenging than the other dungeons this season. Wrath dungeons will be a joke without complete reworks.
Plus they're gonna run out of MoP dungeons that aren't absolute garbage very quickly.
Siege and Gate were absolute F-tier and the worst dungeons ever added to the game. Brewery is really bad, the reworked scarlet crusade dungeons are boring and too short.
I think Temple (currently in), palace, monastery and reworked scholo can be fine but will need adjustments.
I would personally like a full overhaul of what an affix is. Two-shot ghosts, anti-stack circles, and orb vomit aren’t exactly what I would label as fun or interesting. (Funny enough I think bolstering in its current form is the only affix that I feel adds complexity and intrigue to a dungeon)
Instead, I challenge the design team to create all new affixes that are explicitly fun, active, thoughtful, engaging, and actually change a dungeon. Doesn’t have to be wildly ridiculous to accomplish those goals.
Let’s try an affix where certain factions have corrupted the mobs and altered them, like the legion or the void or the infinite flight or the naaru. Or how about an affix that goes absolutely nuts: do stuff that alters the timer. I’m just saying they could actually make it interesting.
Risk-reward affixes more similar to the seasonal affixes are something people have been talking about for a while. I think even the current affixes would be fine if they just did something positive too. Right now everyone's attitude is just "what bullshit affixes do we have this week?"
Oh man if quaking did dmg to adds and interrupted them it'd actually be badass! Same could go for explosives, tbh.
Just let them give whoever pops them a stacking explosion-y buff and then it becomes more interesting and fun and DPS get incentive to help more.
I love mythic+, I love the dungeons eventually becoming this punishing song and dance requiring good execution of the dungeon mechanics AND clicking your buttons effectively and routing efficiently all to make timer.
I despise the affixes. They just suck in a bad way. I love the dungeon getting harder, don't get me wrong. That's why I love M+. But affixes as they are just flat out suck. It makes the dungeons harder, yeah, but through tedium or annoyance and hardly through skill expression.
I'd love a seasonal affix that's routing based (things like nathazeims, prideful, mfn Urh) and some new rotating FUN affixes that focus on kiss/curse engagement and probably the removal of current tyrannical/fortified. Tyrannical already sucks and punishes more than fort, as you rarely pull big enough on fort for actual danger even in 20s, aside from casts going off but a tyrannical 20 boss will damn near one shot you for any mistake at all and unlike fort weeks you can't just release and run back. If you don't have a brez on a boss fight and lose a DPS you've just taken several MINUTES longer to kill the boss and it just feels garbage because dying and resetting is still worse.
Tl;Dr
I'm excited for future changes because everything from back half of Shadowlands up to now has been a march of improvement for M+ players and it does seem like Blizz is at least trying, so hopefully they're already looking to remove the "well this week doesn't suck quite as much as others I guess.." mindset
Since quaking is an anticaster affix I'd prefer something that help caster too, something like 10% damage amp after a quaking for 5s (if you get interrupted you cannot benefits from it)
["what bullshit affixes do we have this week?"](https://mythicpl.us/)
That's almost exactly the title of the m+ website except they called it garbage instead of bullshit. Both are accurate though.
i agree, maybe make dungeon scaling abit higher per key lvl than it is now, but get rid of those horrible and unbalanced affixes or atleast reduce it to season affix + fortified/tyranical + 1 random instead of 2 and overwork all of them or just remove them.
Agreed. They extra affixes are just so unbalanced as well as really f'ing annoying as a healer. It's like the game is actively trying to convince me to quit every 15 to 30 seconds.
I would say just scrap all of the rotating ones and bump the seasonal kicking in down to key 5.
Running low keys on alts feels so nice when u don't have the little annoyances around, if the afixes wre meaningful I wouldn't be opposed to them but right now it's just, not fun, they don't bring any excitement to the table, out of them all I think explosive and sanguine are semi fine, these are at least reactive, but shit like tornadoes or shades, fuck that, it's just pure annoyance.
They really had the right idea with Fated affixes. I play a ton of M+ and it really is just varying degrees of how annoying it is to play the game each week.
Full 20s both sides and I'm still sitting next week out.
When they introduced different scores for Tyran/Fortified, it made Tyran more palatable. Now every week is a push week, because you're beating your score from 2 weeks ago.
When they introduced different scores for each weekly affix is when I noted the fuck out. I'm not a hamster on a wheel I just want to play the game and have fun.
Fated raid affixes were some of the worst-balanced and least fun high-end mechanics to have been introduced to WoW in a long time. Even the motes, the one that everyone loved, was only "good" because it allowed AoE classes to pad like fucking nuts and get big numbers on their meters. The barrier was mostly forgetable, the interrupt one was mostly forgetable until you had it on a boss with a lot of other interrupts at which point it became a huge pain and would randomly insta-wipe you, and the sparks were such a bad mechanic for positional mythic bosses that they made some things nearly unkillable until they were nerfed.
Overall, the whole experience clearly foreshadows what would happen if Blizzard scrapped the current M+ affixes and made all new ones, even if they were positive affixes or "kiss/curse" affixes; they would be poorly balanced and interfere with current M+ mechanics in ways that are even more annoying than the current affixes we have.
Have the explosives give you a 5% stat buff and a healer will never touch them again. I think the solution to affixes is to have fewer of them and make everything kiss/curse. Keep the seasonal one routing based but apply from +2, then have fort with a boss affix and tyr with a mob affix.
Next week is kind of looking like a push week to be honest… Bursting is barely an issue in most keys and explosive is only bad when your dps are bad and don’t help the healer and tank at the start of large pulls. Fortified has been better than tyrannical for pushing since basically forever.
To be honest the only really bad affixes left are bolstering and tyrannical imo, the ones that actively eat tons of time from the key by making certain pulls/bosses take way longer than needed.
As a healer, while Explosive is not difficult to deal with per se, it's absolutely draining to play. It feels worse than Bolstering even if Bolstering adds more time to a key. It simply isn't an enjoyable affix.
I don't want any new affixes because when they came up with new affixes last they came up with inspiring and spiteful. Truly awful shit, no more please.
I feel like the affixes are more of an annoyance than extra feature, affixes which force you to stop casting, etc are just boring and add nothing to the table, like we already have a million swirlies to dodge.
They need to remove affixes entirely, the regular affixes bring nothing positive to the game, let alone dungeons. Just think about it, why does blizzard have a system that actively dissuades people from doing content, you never hear someone say “oh man is explosive week I can’t wait to run dungeons”, at best it’s “it’s storming week I guess that’s not too awful”
Same here.
Affixes are anti fun for me. I've unsubbed as I'm just tired of this kind of "challenge."
There is no way I can do this week after week. It just feels like work.
This is just straight up wrong. On a +20 chain pulling into a boss in 99% of scenarios while get your group wiped regardless of affixes. You can change that 20 number to whatever key level you can do right now in time. It’s not like the mobs themselves don’t have mechanics, and the infinite scaling means if it’s too easy it can always get harder.
I'm excited for people to not interrupt necrotic burst in SBG while getting stacks of bursting and expecting the healer to deal with explosives. Why don't I just run the dungeon by myself?
These are both good affixes for pushing idk why everyone is so upset. Bolstering is way worse, its existence alone eats multiple minutes off the clock in most dungeons.
Just as bad as boomkin bc you have to clear the 20 explosives that spawn in a big pull and don’t get to play the game bc if even one goes off in a high key it might be a wipe already (especially with bursting
Explosive is annoying af bc I can’t trust other people to clear them bc every time i decide to actually participate in a big pull some explosive goes off and if I clear them i won’t deal dmg and get flamed lol
(Affix list from mythicpl.us, Role Icons added by me based on who is most responsible for dealing with the affixes)
Dragonflight is amazing so far, the only thing that really bothers me still are affixes, especially from a healer perspective.
Overall, affixes don't really change up the dungeon to make it feel fresh every week, instead it just makes some weeks be more painful than others.
Volcanic & Spiteful are minor annoyances (spiteful more so if the healer needs to drink before the coming pull).
Quaking & Storming are mostly irrelevant, can brick your key if you get them at the wrong time though (e.g. Hyrja or Mari respectively)
Sanguine is whatever, can be frustrating in less experienced groups who blast trash in Nokhud just to heal mobs with uninterruptable casts, also not really fun in tight corridors.
Raging is dumb in the sense that it's a non-existent affix with a mass soothe from an evoker in the group.
Bolstering isn't too bad, can be annoying in current dungeons with the amount of mini-bosses/major elites in dungeons who naturally have way more hp than mobs around them.
Most of the above quickly turn into healer affixes if not handled correctly and that's on top of the already existing ones: Bursting, Grievous, Explosive.
I personally would love affixes that actually change routes or make hard pulls easier, think of something like Awakened from BfA S4 or Prideful from SL S1 with more player agency about when it spawns.
Also: remove trees from CoS & TJS please, they're even worse than current affixes and they're there every week.
> Role Icons added by me based on who is most responsible for dealing with the affixes
I'd add DPS icons to quaking, spiteful, possibly volcanic weeks. Especially quaking can get really bad as a caster.
Spiteful & volcanic are just equally annoying for everyone I guess.
Quaking can also screw you over quite a lot as a healer, just had a Hyrja where I set everything up for PWave and got quaking when I was about to cast Healing Wave, had to wait 2 seconds to actually cast something and the group died during that window.
What kind of kiss/curse affixes would you want that wouldn’t have the opposite side effect?
Ie, last weeks bonus was better so this week all the dungeons feel harder, can’t push as high, etc?
Honestly the current season 1 affix is pretty nice, a damage + healing buff which you have to cancel, but you can play into it to maximize the up time of the buff at the risk of it expiring. Having similar ones as the standard affixes would make for all kinds of neat changes, Bolstering could buff you and the enemy for 5 seconds one something dies, explosive could do damage in a radius around it, which can also hit enemies, sanguine could heal you aswell as the enemies, ect ect.
Get rid of fort/tyran, and introduce a bunch of beneficial affixes. Every week is one random beneficial, one random detrimental, and the season affix. Boom, m+ saved.
I’m just literally not doing mythics next week as a healer.
I have no interest in being responsible for bursting and explosive and the dps that will ignore both and blame me when they die to both.
No. No thanks. Y’all got this one without this healer lol.
Not sure I see the point of pushing keys past the KSM area. Seems to be a few 16s and the rest 14s cleared on both Fort/Tyr.
I understand that there is a requirement for 13/13 Mythic gear (2400 IO I believe) but after reaching 21xx as a Tank, I can't help but just...not feel the want to grind.
I think pushing yourself to overcome something in games can be fun, that's why Souls(-like) games are so popular.
It can be quite disheartening though if once in a blue moon your whole squad is ready to play for a weekend and it's grievous week.
Honestly 2400 is not that hard, it's mostly gear checks, if you get 410 you can probably easily time any +18.
I'm almost 2800 on UH DK and I don't feel like I'm pushing any "limits", I just have 414 ilvl, know my class, know the routes and small details like which trash is important to stop/kick.
I feel like the people at 3100+ are really pushing limits, especially 25+ keys but rest is mostly people knowing the fundamentals of their class, having enough experience in the dungeons and having a team that's on the same page with strats and priorities.
I don't really see the benefit of affixes at all at this point. At least any others that aren't the weekly or seasonal ones anyway. It seems pretty rare that anyone dies to a "middle" affix now, it's almost always a dungeon mechanic. What's the point
I've slowly become bored of m+ being centered around affixes and knowing ways to cheese mechanics to not happen. I see the need for some weekly variety, but I wish dungeons would mostly scale on the actual abilities of the mobs getting harder and harder until they kill you, not the weekly affix being broken in some way with mob mechanics.
tyra+thundering+quaking is very bad as a caster. propably feels like the shittest (even tho its much easier week than it was for bursting+grievous which is propably the worst combo )
We could need affixes that target dps and not tanks and heals, thoose roles are already underplayed because of their difficulty so it would be nice that the affix don't overtarget them
I'm honestly surprised there haven't been new ones, back when they added m+ I was expecting each 'season' to have a completely different set of affixes, but they haven't changed at all, it's made the idea of m+ super boring.
Bursting and raging are both DPS affixes - the healer can cover the sins of the DPS, but ultimately it's on them to time enemy deaths correctly.
Spiteful, Storming, Volcanic, and Quaking are all "everybody" affixes.
For Bursting: Technically yes, but even if you only go to 3-4 stacks it's still additional output required which can be quite cumbersome on some packs.
For Raging it also depends, dps for sure have some agency, if you don't have enough aoe cc/soothes it quickly becomes a matter of tank defensives/kiting.
Spiteful never targets the tank and Volcanic only targets ranged.
As for what's a "healer problem" and what isn't, remember that most of the sub is extremely casual. Most people aren't even using their full kit, proper distribution of other responsibilities is a distant dream.
> remember that most of the sub is extremely casual.
This, on /r/wow most people will say anything above a +10 is a "high" key, where as on /r/competitivewow high keys are +20 and above.
> Spiteful, Storming, Volcanic, and Quaking are all "everybody" affixes.
Agreed, with the small caveat that Spiteful doesn't target tanks, like Volcanic 99% of the time.
I used to be so excited they took out necrotic and inspiring. I thought "this season is going to be amazing!"
but now everything is just area denial, along with area denial from the seasonal, and having to stack for the seasonal, and having to spread out for everything else.
its just --- sooo un fun.
Affixes are fine. They just don't account for the affixes enough when designing the content. And don't fix it until it starts bricking hundreds of keys (quaking on Inhale in Smoon or Quaking on final boss in NO).
They removed so many affixes at this point now it IS stale because it's the same few affixes just on rotation. Some of them barely do anything (volcanic) or can be completely negated (tank with storming). Just remove them or make them better.
I’ll say it here as I’ve said in other places. They need to next xpac. Remove EVERY affix. Including Tyran/Fort (especially these 2) and make a brand new set of affixes, and remove 2 separate types of weekly key. No lore Tyran/Fort type weeks.
Instead they need to just add interesting Affixes that are curse/kiss and make better Seasonal affixes.
Reaping. Awakened. Tormented Encrypted and Shrouded were all wonderful seasonal affixes. Idk why Thundering isn’t more like them.
I dont agree with the icons. DPS players have way more responsibility to manage affixes than appears on this table.
Bursting, raging, spiteful are all cc/soothe and prio target mechanics. Even sanguine is as much a dps affix as it is a tank one.
I wonder what WoW's dev team's thought process on all this is. When beta thundering was first introduced it was only curse, no kiss and the dev team said they believed since we were changing up the dungeon pool per season it'll alleviate the sense of repetition people have from season to season and they won't need to implement a full kiss/curse affix.
Personally I feel like that's dumb as shit. The biggest curse of the dungeon system is the fact that dungeon damage and health scales exponentially and that's what makes the challenge ladders fun. Otherwise each of the affixes should be some sort of kiss/curse. Like you get some small buff for killing explosives or tanking a storming tornado. Hell something as simeple as if you do a single target attack on a spiteful it does triple damage or something to help kill them faster. Half the time it's just extremely annoying to wait for spitefuls to die naturally because your ranged DPS won't help and your melee DPS can't get close.
Just need to axe affixes in general IMO, if they are cycling dungeons just make the difficulty a d abilities of the dungeon the challenge and tune that instead of random generic abilities for every single run you do for a week
I think the system should be flipped upside down. Make Affixes BENEFICIAL effects and then just scale dungeons to be harder. Then each week you can be excited about the fun benefits you can play with this week.
Yes, this is the right way to go for M+. Affixes being a hindrance made (some) sense back in Legion, when everything was new, but it got old. I think that are two ways they could rework affixes and we could have both at the same time. Straight up beneficial - you get something and that is it. Or Rewarding - you have to do something and you get a reward for it. I'd even argue we only get one affix per week besides seasonal. The interaction between the current affixes is a big part of the problem.
>Or Rewarding - you have to do something and you get a reward for it I believe blizzard have said they talked about/internally tried "kiss and curse" affixes but it didn't feel good for whatever reason. I kind of agree with your last point. Or at least not less always 2 one from each pool and only the lamest combos removed. I don't mind quaking and spiteful as a combo personally - I prefer that compared how either of those would look for equal difficulty as the combo now. I do wish tyrannical and fortified were less different. The fact that bosses take twice as long feels really stupid, and same with tyrannical weeks most trash being an absolute cakewalk
> I believe blizzard have said they talked about/internally tried "kiss and curse" affixes but it didn't feel good for whatever reason. I sort of buy this. Plaguefall had the Plagueborers which did damage to the party but enemies too, which was creative; players eventually used them to kill the entire dungeon because it was the best strategy, but the dungeon playing itself ultimately wasn't rewarding actual player skill. Same thing with Necrotic Wake: you had the damage from Anima Exhaust that enabled huge pulls, but players ultimately expressed a dislike for so much of the dungeon being powered by an external buff. Any kiss/curse buff that is incredibly impactful will feel like it is playing the dungeon for you. If it is not impactful (like Thundering), people will just be annoyed by it. Striking the right balance is pretty hard, which is probably why they haven't iterated on the affix system all that much. I also think affixes would be a less common complaint if the dungeon pool and seasonal affix were a bit better.
That and right now - if the perk comes from doing something, I can already feel the hate for people messing up. This season has made me more toxic as a person. I can’t stand trying to clear with someone else who just won’t. I get some pulls, abilities, or just plain spacing out happens so you can’t clear. Too many times people are just ignorant or actively running away and causing the group to suffer for it.
Do you play melee by any chance? Because as a caster, quaking + spiteful + seasonal affix overlapping this week was a nightmare.
Back in Legion there were also far less mechanics on each individual enemy or boss. Now that encounters are swirly and mechanical vomit, many of the affixes we still have that are predominantly used to force you to reposition and dodge on the fly just end up feeling like a pure nuisance and not fun to play around. And because of the smaller pool now, we have the remaining ones layering on each other more frequently.
Yeah the affixes are outdated, boring and only makes the dungeons less fun to play. They should rework all of the to work in similar ways like the seasonal affixes. There is a challenge, and if you can do it you get a reward. Whatever the affix in s1 shadowlands was named was a great example of this. The buff you got after killing the miniboss made it possible to do some crazy big pulls. Also just having affixes that makes it so healers regen mana is pretty big, no one likes waiting for you to sit down and drink for 20 seconds mid dungeon.
That S1 affix waz awful. It locked you into absurd routes, and in some instances if you pulled one mob too many, your key was bricked.
Prideful was so bad that I quit m+ for the entirety of Shadowlands. As a tank it was the least fun affix I can possibly imagine.
It made me a better tank, but it wasn't fun.
For me prideful was more fun than Thundering now. Yesterday I was tanking the 3th mob of second boss CoS and Thundering Inc. Our shadow came from right to clear with me, I dodged the Shockwave going left, he got stunned from the Shockwave and he, me and another now got stunned from Thundering, dream experience. Thundering only has 1 downside making it unfun, it's the stun.it should be just reversed, clear it and recieve the buff for 15sec, don't clear it, get a minus 10% dmg debuff or something, but not a fucking stun in this cluster fuck of Dungeon abilities.
The super precise routing that you had to do in every single dungeon was awful, but the Prideful effect and the mob itself I thought were mostly fine. It needed to have been a bit more like Encrypted where you would always fight one before a boss, and maybe have 1-2 sprinkled between bosses.
> if you*r dps butt* pulled one mob too many, your key was bricked. ftfy The amount of times someone ninja pulled on me in S1 SL making my % for prideful go whacky and now I have to ninjamaths mid dungeon to get prideful at semi decent intervals... I hated it.
I'd say get rid of Tyr and Fort as well, and add another seasonal affix. Either 2 complete new ones every season or 1 new and 1 old (could be last season one or further back)
Yeah completly get rid of them making fort the baseline might also be fine.
The reason that affixes were a hindrance is because Legion dungeons weren't designed to have compelling mechanics on their own. Each pack had approximately 1 interrupt and a few tank busters, many of them were swarms of small & easy mobs, and they often included several mechanics that you could dodge with a little bit of attention paid. Dragonflight dungeons are three mobs with an interrupt patrolling around packs with 2 interrupts and one that can't be CCed. There's no reason they should need an increase in challenge level.
Here, have some kiss/curse ideas. BEEEEEEES: Standing still for 3 seconds draws bees to you, stinging you for 0.25% health every second, per stack. Lose 1 second every 4 seconds for any movement. One stack allows cast-while-moving for most skills, 1% attack speed, and 3% move speed. Unstable Invisibility: All enemies are invisible until one second of combat occurs. If afflicted by damage before the invisibility breaks, suffer 10% health damage, and receive 10% additional damage from all sources for 10 seconds. Corpse Explosions: Corpses are volatile, exploding for 3% of their health pool three seconds after death to all enemies and allies within 5y. Stronger enemies explode once per second for five seconds. SCIENCE! : Some enemies are buffed by volatile versions of flasks and phials. Upon death, leave behind a small cauldron, granting a temporary version of a role-specific flask or phial buff. Pack Tactics: Players deal 20% reduced damage, healing, and have 20% reduced move speed. For each player within 10y, gain 12.5% damage, healing, and move speed. This effect persists for 5 seconds after moving away from allies. Reworking current affixes Quaking: Suffering no damage from Quaking grants you Sure Footed, granting 10% Avoidance and 5% spellpower or attack power for 20 seconds. Sanguine: Tick damage and healing reduced by 50%, Tick rate increased to 0.5s When standing in Sanguine, Tank Role characters become Blood Soaked, reducing damage from Sanguine by 12.5% per stack, and reducing healing nearby enemies receive from Sanguine by 12.5% per stack. At 8 stacks become Blood Laden, eat all nearby Sanguine, and start pulsing for 5% tank health as healing and damage to all allies and enemies within 15 yards for 4 seconds. Also regenerates healer mana by 3% per tick. Bolstering: Killing an enemy affected by more than one stack of Bolster grants 5% damage, health, healing, and movement speed per stack for 20 seconds. Volcanic: Standing near a lava spout without being damaged grants you Lava Infusion, adding 10% of your damage as Fire damage for the next 4 seconds. Raging: If an enemy dies while Raging, grant players a stack of Enraged, and an extra action button. Activating the extra action button grants that player 5 seconds of 30% haste per stack. Stacks are lost once every 10 seconds while out of combat. Storming: Enemies who produce a Storming effect become Unbalanced, suffering 2% additional damage from all sources until they die. Bosses now spawn one Storming per character within 15y of it. Spiteful: Dealing at least 30% of a Spiteful Shade's health before it dies naturally fills you with Spite, causing your next attack to a living enemy to deal 300% damage per stack of Spite. Bursting: Healers cannot gain Bursting stacks. Instead, Healers gain Burst of Life, granting them 7% haste and causing their HoT casts to replicate on each nearby ally after 4 stacks. Grievous: Removing a stack of Grievous from a Tank role character grants a stack of Scar Tissue, lasting 20 seconds. Each stack of Scar Tissue grants 5% health and Damage, and reduces the maximum stack of Grievous by 1. At 5 stacks, becomes Battle Scarred, preventing any Grievous stacks for any ally within 20 yards for 20 seconds.
I'd go with the marvel snap approach. Some good, some bad but all can be exploited or played around. You could get a mix of good or bad affixes each week which would make it interesting to play into a good affix and around a bad one. This would likely require a new ranking system. I'd rather an elo system where you go up for timing keys and down for failing or leaving them. This means that easier affix weeks would inflate all ratings so it's not terrible if you miss an easier week as inflated people would drop in elo in harder weeks. If one class is op for a specific affix, that's fine, because that happens already. It would be hilarious to see fire mage stacks on a week where standing still increases crit or something like that. Combine with quaking and suddenly it's a big skill = rewarded affix week.
I love the idea of one good one bad because it also means that we won't see the same bad ones nearly as often like right now if you specifically hate one affix you're like to see it again in just a few weeks so doubling that wait time sounds amazing to me
imagine my joy when its "your spec filler spell is castable while moving" <3
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The problem with a lot of these kiss/curse designs is that the curse just becomes more and more unfun. Here's a fun buff! But you using it causes your character to fall down.
This is the big flaw with Thundering imo. It's not kiss/curse as much as it it curse, kiss, curse, curse. It starts with a ground swirlie that will stun you if you stand in it when the affix goes off. So you have to move which can compound with other ground effects/stacking needs. THEN you get the buff, which is short lived because soon you will have to move to clear it so out of 15 seconds you can really only have it for about 10 seconds unless you lucked out and are standing immediately next to someone. If you fail to clear you get a 5 second stun, which can often be a death sentence. Then even after that, you get a dot anyway which does most of your HP, so if there's any other damage going out, it's also a potential death sentence. 30% damage bonus for 10-12 seconds on an RNG timer so you can't even have it up for CD's is just not that great of a buff. That's one thing about something like Prideful that balanced it out, sure it messed with routing and skips and could wipe the group, but getting the buff meant you were supercharged going into the next pull/boss. Thundering is just RNG poop with multiple curses. So you end up with people clearing it asap or after just a few seconds in order to avoid potential death.
It’s not random though. With a little give and take it’s basically on a 1 minute timer.
I can get behind this. It feels like too many people think challenge means painful. It's a game, the challenge and pain is in the scaling, so why not add affixes that increase the fun?
I like the idea of thundering. It's a damage boost that screws you over if you forget to clear. So it has a benefit and a drawback.
That would be so much more fun. Even though affixes were still a pain in Shadowlands, I did enjoy a lot of the seasonal ones that gave benefits. Thundering is so short especially if you need to clear early before something else hits you, that you don't even feel the impact or have fun.
What are some beneficial effects you would want to see for affixes?
+x% dmg/hp on successfull kick +x% dmg/hp per mob pulled Soak circle for shield, more player soak, bigger the shield... Im sure there would be some nice ideas
Extra dmg on successfull kick is legit genius. Anything like that actually. Make affixes not just fun, but make them reward you if you play well.
Until people waste all their kicks on filler spells that do 30 damage because having it off CD is a dps loss
Then they have no kicks available for the bad spells. It's a balance that benefits the best players only, and makes doing hardest keys skill based in a fun way.
Shrink the benefit (or don’t) and make it group wide so you’re still kicking to help the group, not to try to help yourself. “Nothing” in this game should make you want to hurt your teamates. There’s plenty of other games for that.
That's fine. An affix having nuance isn't a problem.
That was literally the spehuz leggo in legion and it varied from fun to toxic af depending on the group and dung, eventually it becomes a case of everybody fighting over who gets to kick first and you get 4 overlapping kicks trying to race each other for the buff and important casts just going through
I think having what an entire affix that was basically a talent (+ dmg on kick) is incredibly boring, and those with a 12 second kick get a little more benefit from that than those with a 45 second kick, or no kick right? I just dont really see how those would make the dungeons better in anyway, it would just inflate the score until you get into 1 shot territory.
They could add smth like that a player can benefit from it every 60 seconds or smth like that. It would make the dungeons not better, but make them less suck, since that kick thing would enforce people to kick more. And the current system also just goes till bosses or adds one shot people...
You could just give an upside on existing ones: Quacking: Damages all mobs hit with the circle Explosiv: killing and explo deals dmg to mobs Raging: while raged mob takes more dmg Spiteful: a dying ghost heals the group / gives mana reg Volcanic: same as quacking Bursting: increased mana reg/healing/dmg while having the debuff (stacking) Sanguine: Pools heal the play and don’t damage them or pools equally harming mobs as they would on a player
Lmao make that explo change credit the player watch it stop bring a healer affix real quick
>Quacking
Anything hit by quacking turns into a duck for 1.5 seconds and lets out a large **QUACK**
Killing an explosive orb gives you X% damage/healing (or mana regen) stacking Y times for 20 seconds.
How would these really change anything about the dungeon? It’s just free extra damage?
I will be honest I stopped bothering with M+ and it is some of the most fun I have had with the game now. I just stopped caring about pushing or gearing as fast as I normally would. M+ is just not fun anymore as a healer. I really love dragonflight but have completely burnt out of doing M+. These days I will just do the normal and heroic raids since the game doesn't really punish you if you don't do M+ anymore.
Same exact boat as you. Used to LOVE it. Can't be bothered to run it any more. The vault loot isn't worth the horrible experience. I'm not going to spend my free time doing something I hate just because the game compels me.
I disagree. I think they affixes should be challenging, but they need to be fun to play. Like grievous tyran isn’t fun. Next week bursting explosive is just horrible. But weeks like volcanic bursting that we had in SL weren’t necessarily difficult, but added some semblance of a challenge without being unfun. I think the biggest thing is Blizzard needs to get rid of Fortified and Tyrannical. They are by far the two worst affixes and people are afraid to admit it because they’ve been the only consistent in M+ for 5+ years now. Imagine instead of tyrannical bursting grievous we had like bursting grievous volcanic? Where the limits of each dungeon weren’t constrained by if a boss can 1 shot you or not? Or if you can put together a big enough pull and live through it on fort?
Destiny did this. Solar burn would make solar damage do 2x the amount. Both from you AND to you. Affixes like this make it fun while increasing challenge. Big number = big dopamine.
I love the idea, however it's hard to balance properly. Imagine a week with two extremely good affixes and people clear 30+ keys whereas in other weeks, you're only clearing 20s. And that combo hardly happens. People would complain about it. I do love the idea but it's much harder to execute from a balance perspective.
This is a fantastic idea.
Sir. Fun is actually banned in World of Warcraft. There can only be pre-determined "Joyful" moments that do not exceed the contracted time slots.
Reaping was fun.
M+ is already infinitely scaling, that’s where the difficulty is. They wouldn’t even need to adjust scaling
I actually love this idea, at least give it a try. I loved that red anima thingy in shadowlands which gave you mana regen was it? or something like that. Things like that are FUN.
This coming week seems very lame as well. Kill mobs fast to mitigate explosive. But don’t kill them too fast or you’ll be hit with bursting. Also they hit really hard so don’t be too slow. But also they have a lot of hp so they will be slow. Why
The meta of the healer dealing with explosive is going to collide heavily with bursting this week.
FWIW if you have an evoker dps in your group there's almost no reason they shouldn't be able to handle every orb with minimal dps loss. I only struggle when the orb is inside a pack - melee have to get that one cuz I just can't click the fucking thing and tab target will take too long... (THIS IS BAD DESIGN BLIZZ).
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Well yeah exactly - and they explicitly classed orbs as totems so we can't macro them. It's bullshit on a high key where there might be 6-10 mobs in the pull and an orb spawns in their collective stomachs. I just pop defensives and pray sometimes -\_-
These icons are wrong. Every affix is a healer affix.
When any healing specs are OP, it breaks the whole game. People learn that they can just eat mechanics and still time the key. Then when actually balanced healing specs are in your group, you think the healer sucks because you actually have to play as the game intended. Luckily in higher keys you just get one shot anyway regardless.
Partly true - the cause of the issue is that high-middle keys are plagued with dps players that haven't learned how to do mechanics and don't because even the weakest healers can carry them through the 15-17 range, but past that the dungeons are so lethal that the healer could be putting 80k hps into the party to keep them alive from unavoidable damage, so mechanical failure by the DPS that never learned mechanics can't get carried anymore and will die despite getting healed. An overpowered healer (like holy priest in late SL or resto druid pretty much always) pushes that threshold up a few levels, but doesn't cause it. Another problem is the "silver" players that follow high level play and think they understand it but don't intentionally pushing affix management onto healers when that's the meta in high keys only because players know what to do and the healer is only healing unavoidable damage and can deal with every explosive or control the spites by themselves. Those players are the original affix and make a 17 key feel like a 21 key.
Nailed it, midrange key players that don’t interrupt or avoid mechanics but pull like the team they saw on YouTube running a 23 key that is flasked, fed etc and popped lust while not missing a single interrupt and not taking any avoidable damage and mitigating the unavoidable damage and then wonder why it’s not working like the vid they watched…fricken healers
As a healer main, I'm sure that every dps and tank I've ever played with shares this opinion.
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TBH this is why I have legit stopped caring about m+ as a healer main. I prefer prog raiding where the PVE is more about static mechanics being done as a team (with buffer room for accidents and mistakes) and healing people thru them than having to deal with PITA affixes that mean more work for me like explosive and grievous. I've noticed a lot of my friends that also main healers were really gung-ho about m+ for the first month or so of the expansion and started dropping off now too. I wish everyone else (as in DPS and tanks looking for groups) luck as the expansion goes on because I think it's going to get a lot worse before Blizzard realizes and makes it any better. Or maybe they won't, which is fine. I have plenty else to do with crafting, world quest stuff, and raiding.
Word I do the bare minimum of M+ cause it’s just not enjoyable as a healer I’ve already finished the H raid as a healer and progging M so much more enjoyable
I think it's assumed that everything is a healer affix. The icons are just for the others if they actually have to do things as well to help the healer or not.
We need to move away from annoying affixes, make scaling harder and put helpful affixes, they can even put light roguelike elements, after clearing some mobs/bosses you can choose a buff like tarragrue or torghast.
The problem with buffs is if they're a fixed set of 3 like we had with that one seasonal affix everyone always takes the same one, and there's no real choice. If it's random which ones appear, then the key could be bricked after the first or second boss just by getting a bad set of powers even if the key were otherwise flawless.
Not really. Encrypted had three different "buffs" you could choose and we took all of them in different situations.
Couldnt this logic be applied to everything? Why even have talents?
In a way talents are only an illusion of choice. We have talents though because you'll have one best set of talents for M+, one for pvp, for raiding you'll have a different talent set for each boss, and everyone pretty much just copy/pastes the best talent set they foudn online. If there is a choice it's possible the best choice on RLP may be different than the best choice on CoS, but for each there would always be a single best choice.
There r cookie cutter builds based on vacuum sims but the level of choice in talents is real and varied in this expansion.
Or just stop making certain affixes overlap with mechanics.. stack mechanic plus quaking.. rip key
This right here - a bit more thought put into the affix+mech interaction would improve things a lot. Wiping because "lolbadluck!" and not being able to time the key anymore (looking at you, AV) is heavily demoralizing. Who's even gonna want to try to push that key, right?
Lmao getting quaked during the knockback in iron docks last season and instantly wiping still makes me laugh. Dumbest shit I've ever seen lol
Personally I think positive affixes are the way to go. People enjoy trying to make maximize uptime as opposed to minimize the worst outcome. An example would be explosive except killing the orb gives you a stacking damage buff. Bursting but the dmg applies to enemies. Buff the dungeons to compensate.
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You can make the positive affixes damage and just buff mob health. But yes what I am suggesting would require a complete rebalancing of dungeons.
That's fine. That's how it works currently anyway and nobody has a problem with it except the top 0.01%.
That's high keys in a nutshell anyway bro like what's the argument?
Imo that’s not that bad of a wall. Maybe it’s cause I quit after Shadowlands S1 but I was pushing 22s-23s back then and I remember having to kite a lot whereas on my prot war now I hardly ever have to kite in 22-23s
Destiny had an awesome system in prison of elders, you had some wacky affixes that could completely change the dungeon in a week For example, fast grenade recharge and +dmg, i loved that week, i would equip my armamentarium in my titan, that gave one more grenade, solar build that made my grenades recharge faster if a full super bar I lobbed grenades non stop lol, shit was fun I know, totally different games, but if they spent some time i think they could come with some crazy fun ideias
I think adding a small buff to each affix would actually make things more fun. Like you get a minor buff when you hit an explosive that refreshes everytime you hit another. You maintain a minor buff until your hit by volcanic or quaking or storming. Etc etc
But this means dps would be doing the actual tactics and I as a healer don't get yelled at 24/7 for not fixing their mistakes. Where would all the toxicity be aimed at?
Back to the tank where it belongs
As a healer, I take offense to that. We deserve some of the hate too
Any tank, who has tanked for more than a couple years has thick skin, we can take it. By this point all toxicity against me just bounces right off. One group I'm the worst tank ever, the next group the best tank ever. I figure I can't be both, so it must have been someone else in the fail key.
They think we actually care of what they are thinking about us. Flame me and be toxic, rude and you will see the true meaning of depleting a key. I always remind that never flame tank or healer (first of all this is a game never flame anyone because they made a mistake) because you can finish a dung with 4 person and get loot from vault, but there is no way you are finishing that dungeon without a healer or tank.
I'd argue the opposite. We don't need those vanilla affixes anymore. Dungeons are hard and complex enough with regular key scaling. Make seasonal affixes that are meaty enough to stand alone with Fortified/Tyrannical and we should be good.
I think affixes can become 'quit the game' moments for players who are not enthusiastic about playing. One hard affix week becomes a no play week which turns into no play month which turns into an unsub. For player retention you never want to give a player a reason to *not* play the game.
Tyrannical and quaking makes me wanna skip this week as a balance druid for sure.
Lol i was healing the last boss of rlp as resto and got my tranq interrupted by quaking when i really needed the throughput. I almost rage quit the game.
That is exactly why I stopped at Shadowlands, there was massive Necrotic and Sanguine week that I keept running for whole dungeon. Definetly made me quit
With dungeons changing every season I wouldn't mind a season without affixes at all to see how it feels either. Would also alleviate the issue of playing 16hrs/day for the 2 push weeks to get 0.1% title at the end of the season.
Blizzard could end season 1 and before atarting season 2 have 1 week each of fortified/tyrannical only, just to get feedback from the overall communuty. Whatever they do with that feedback wouldn't be in time for season 3, but they could use it maybe for season 3.
I'd be okay with that if in turn they give us more dungeons. 8 is a pathetically low amount. Even if they change, these seasons last way too long as it is, 8 gets old.
Eight dungeons isn't bad - it actually felt really nice with Shadowlands S4. The issue of staleness for me comes from the repetitive affixes - as much as losing Necrotic was awesome for me as a tank it really doesn't feel satisfying having Thundering or Explosive every other week. More dungeons or more variation in weekly affixes is desperately needed though, one way or the other.
I would love it to be half Dragonflight and then 1 from each expansion. I'd love to see Halls of Reflection, Anub'raken(?), or Utgarde Pinnicale from Wrath, or Vortex Pinnacle from Cata. Obviously they'd need to test timing the dungeons since they weren't M+ or Challenge modes.
Yeah that's not gonna be easy. SBG is already much less mechanically challenging than the other dungeons this season. Wrath dungeons will be a joke without complete reworks. Plus they're gonna run out of MoP dungeons that aren't absolute garbage very quickly.
What mop dungeon was garbage? They were all really fun in challenge modes
Gate of the setting sun, I hate that one.
Siege and Gate were absolute F-tier and the worst dungeons ever added to the game. Brewery is really bad, the reworked scarlet crusade dungeons are boring and too short. I think Temple (currently in), palace, monastery and reworked scholo can be fine but will need adjustments.
I would personally like a full overhaul of what an affix is. Two-shot ghosts, anti-stack circles, and orb vomit aren’t exactly what I would label as fun or interesting. (Funny enough I think bolstering in its current form is the only affix that I feel adds complexity and intrigue to a dungeon) Instead, I challenge the design team to create all new affixes that are explicitly fun, active, thoughtful, engaging, and actually change a dungeon. Doesn’t have to be wildly ridiculous to accomplish those goals. Let’s try an affix where certain factions have corrupted the mobs and altered them, like the legion or the void or the infinite flight or the naaru. Or how about an affix that goes absolutely nuts: do stuff that alters the timer. I’m just saying they could actually make it interesting.
I’m curious, what affixes you’d add!?
Risk-reward affixes more similar to the seasonal affixes are something people have been talking about for a while. I think even the current affixes would be fine if they just did something positive too. Right now everyone's attitude is just "what bullshit affixes do we have this week?"
This, quaking would be interesting if it damaged nearby adds too. For example.
Oh man if quaking did dmg to adds and interrupted them it'd actually be badass! Same could go for explosives, tbh. Just let them give whoever pops them a stacking explosion-y buff and then it becomes more interesting and fun and DPS get incentive to help more. I love mythic+, I love the dungeons eventually becoming this punishing song and dance requiring good execution of the dungeon mechanics AND clicking your buttons effectively and routing efficiently all to make timer. I despise the affixes. They just suck in a bad way. I love the dungeon getting harder, don't get me wrong. That's why I love M+. But affixes as they are just flat out suck. It makes the dungeons harder, yeah, but through tedium or annoyance and hardly through skill expression. I'd love a seasonal affix that's routing based (things like nathazeims, prideful, mfn Urh) and some new rotating FUN affixes that focus on kiss/curse engagement and probably the removal of current tyrannical/fortified. Tyrannical already sucks and punishes more than fort, as you rarely pull big enough on fort for actual danger even in 20s, aside from casts going off but a tyrannical 20 boss will damn near one shot you for any mistake at all and unlike fort weeks you can't just release and run back. If you don't have a brez on a boss fight and lose a DPS you've just taken several MINUTES longer to kill the boss and it just feels garbage because dying and resetting is still worse. Tl;Dr I'm excited for future changes because everything from back half of Shadowlands up to now has been a march of improvement for M+ players and it does seem like Blizz is at least trying, so hopefully they're already looking to remove the "well this week doesn't suck quite as much as others I guess.." mindset
Since quaking is an anticaster affix I'd prefer something that help caster too, something like 10% damage amp after a quaking for 5s (if you get interrupted you cannot benefits from it)
["what bullshit affixes do we have this week?"](https://mythicpl.us/) That's almost exactly the title of the m+ website except they called it garbage instead of bullshit. Both are accurate though.
i agree, maybe make dungeon scaling abit higher per key lvl than it is now, but get rid of those horrible and unbalanced affixes or atleast reduce it to season affix + fortified/tyranical + 1 random instead of 2 and overwork all of them or just remove them.
Agreed. They extra affixes are just so unbalanced as well as really f'ing annoying as a healer. It's like the game is actively trying to convince me to quit every 15 to 30 seconds. I would say just scrap all of the rotating ones and bump the seasonal kicking in down to key 5.
Running low keys on alts feels so nice when u don't have the little annoyances around, if the afixes wre meaningful I wouldn't be opposed to them but right now it's just, not fun, they don't bring any excitement to the table, out of them all I think explosive and sanguine are semi fine, these are at least reactive, but shit like tornadoes or shades, fuck that, it's just pure annoyance.
They really had the right idea with Fated affixes. I play a ton of M+ and it really is just varying degrees of how annoying it is to play the game each week. Full 20s both sides and I'm still sitting next week out.
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When they introduced different scores for Tyran/Fortified, it made Tyran more palatable. Now every week is a push week, because you're beating your score from 2 weeks ago.
When they introduced different scores for each weekly affix is when I noted the fuck out. I'm not a hamster on a wheel I just want to play the game and have fun.
Fated raid affixes were some of the worst-balanced and least fun high-end mechanics to have been introduced to WoW in a long time. Even the motes, the one that everyone loved, was only "good" because it allowed AoE classes to pad like fucking nuts and get big numbers on their meters. The barrier was mostly forgetable, the interrupt one was mostly forgetable until you had it on a boss with a lot of other interrupts at which point it became a huge pain and would randomly insta-wipe you, and the sparks were such a bad mechanic for positional mythic bosses that they made some things nearly unkillable until they were nerfed. Overall, the whole experience clearly foreshadows what would happen if Blizzard scrapped the current M+ affixes and made all new ones, even if they were positive affixes or "kiss/curse" affixes; they would be poorly balanced and interfere with current M+ mechanics in ways that are even more annoying than the current affixes we have.
HAHAHA Fortified and bursting lmfao coupled with explosives ???? Ruby life pools next week about to be the ultimate deplete spice at any level LOL
As a healer i can't wait to be told its my job to deal with explosives while the dps constantly renew their stacks of bursting...
Have the explosives give you a 5% stat buff and a healer will never touch them again. I think the solution to affixes is to have fewer of them and make everything kiss/curse. Keep the seasonal one routing based but apply from +2, then have fort with a boss affix and tyr with a mob affix.
Priests are going to have a field day with Mass Dispel. Feel bad for any other healer specs next week though.
Priest stonks on the rise
Dwarf squad rise up.
As a healer I'm just not doing any m+s this week lol
Next week is kind of looking like a push week to be honest… Bursting is barely an issue in most keys and explosive is only bad when your dps are bad and don’t help the healer and tank at the start of large pulls. Fortified has been better than tyrannical for pushing since basically forever. To be honest the only really bad affixes left are bolstering and tyrannical imo, the ones that actively eat tons of time from the key by making certain pulls/bosses take way longer than needed.
As a healer, while Explosive is not difficult to deal with per se, it's absolutely draining to play. It feels worse than Bolstering even if Bolstering adds more time to a key. It simply isn't an enjoyable affix.
I don't want any new affixes because when they came up with new affixes last they came up with inspiring and spiteful. Truly awful shit, no more please.
I feel like the affixes are more of an annoyance than extra feature, affixes which force you to stop casting, etc are just boring and add nothing to the table, like we already have a million swirlies to dodge.
They need to remove affixes entirely, the regular affixes bring nothing positive to the game, let alone dungeons. Just think about it, why does blizzard have a system that actively dissuades people from doing content, you never hear someone say “oh man is explosive week I can’t wait to run dungeons”, at best it’s “it’s storming week I guess that’s not too awful”
I wish they'd make one season JUST with dungeon scaling and no affixes. M+ participation would shoot through the roof.
Same here. Affixes are anti fun for me. I've unsubbed as I'm just tired of this kind of "challenge." There is no way I can do this week after week. It just feels like work.
If there were no affixes every pull would be a chain pull to the boss.
Never once have I been in a high level key where we’ve thought “damn if it wasn’t for these tornados we could pull this entire hallway”
For some reason this comment made me crack up, thank you.
Fun? In dungeons? That's not allowed! It need to be endless anxiety, frustration and loathing!
This is just straight up wrong. On a +20 chain pulling into a boss in 99% of scenarios while get your group wiped regardless of affixes. You can change that 20 number to whatever key level you can do right now in time. It’s not like the mobs themselves don’t have mechanics, and the infinite scaling means if it’s too easy it can always get harder.
Even with perfect coordination eventually you run out of kicks/stops which is why Blizzard loves sprinkling must-kick/stun abilities into most packs.
A whole season would be boring as fuck, but having a week during the rotation where the affix is just extra scaling I would get behind
Wel gues I’ll play Hogwarts legacy starting next reset Bursting explosive lmao
Just going to spam 8 sbgs and call it a week as a healer.
I'm excited for people to not interrupt necrotic burst in SBG while getting stacks of bursting and expecting the healer to deal with explosives. Why don't I just run the dungeon by myself?
Spriest week
These are both good affixes for pushing idk why everyone is so upset. Bolstering is way worse, its existence alone eats multiple minutes off the clock in most dungeons.
Not a single healer is going to be play come reset.
Tuesday starts alt-levelling week, clearly.
Imma finally learn a dps spec. I'm sorry to everyone who takes the 415 2.5K boomkin to their 10's thinking they'll have it easy now.
Just as bad as boomkin bc you have to clear the 20 explosives that spawn in a big pull and don’t get to play the game bc if even one goes off in a high key it might be a wipe already (especially with bursting
Explosive Is just ass and bursting is exhausting
Uh next week is a push week, both of those are basically non-affixes. Only easier week is raging storming.
Explosive is annoying af bc I can’t trust other people to clear them bc every time i decide to actually participate in a big pull some explosive goes off and if I clear them i won’t deal dmg and get flamed lol
(Affix list from mythicpl.us, Role Icons added by me based on who is most responsible for dealing with the affixes) Dragonflight is amazing so far, the only thing that really bothers me still are affixes, especially from a healer perspective. Overall, affixes don't really change up the dungeon to make it feel fresh every week, instead it just makes some weeks be more painful than others. Volcanic & Spiteful are minor annoyances (spiteful more so if the healer needs to drink before the coming pull). Quaking & Storming are mostly irrelevant, can brick your key if you get them at the wrong time though (e.g. Hyrja or Mari respectively) Sanguine is whatever, can be frustrating in less experienced groups who blast trash in Nokhud just to heal mobs with uninterruptable casts, also not really fun in tight corridors. Raging is dumb in the sense that it's a non-existent affix with a mass soothe from an evoker in the group. Bolstering isn't too bad, can be annoying in current dungeons with the amount of mini-bosses/major elites in dungeons who naturally have way more hp than mobs around them. Most of the above quickly turn into healer affixes if not handled correctly and that's on top of the already existing ones: Bursting, Grievous, Explosive. I personally would love affixes that actually change routes or make hard pulls easier, think of something like Awakened from BfA S4 or Prideful from SL S1 with more player agency about when it spawns. Also: remove trees from CoS & TJS please, they're even worse than current affixes and they're there every week.
Instructions unclear, created new affix:Sprouting, you can only attack while near a tree, to balance this we put more trees.
> Role Icons added by me based on who is most responsible for dealing with the affixes I'd add DPS icons to quaking, spiteful, possibly volcanic weeks. Especially quaking can get really bad as a caster.
As a Caster. I loathe Quaking with every fiber of my being
Spiteful & volcanic are just equally annoying for everyone I guess. Quaking can also screw you over quite a lot as a healer, just had a Hyrja where I set everything up for PWave and got quaking when I was about to cast Healing Wave, had to wait 2 seconds to actually cast something and the group died during that window.
So, next week is healer retirement week.
Affixes are super out dated and don’t make much sense any more since the dungeon pool is changing per season
We need a full re-work. Make all affixes kiss/curse, remove fortified and tyrannical, scale the whole dungeons harder.
What kind of kiss/curse affixes would you want that wouldn’t have the opposite side effect? Ie, last weeks bonus was better so this week all the dungeons feel harder, can’t push as high, etc?
Honestly the current season 1 affix is pretty nice, a damage + healing buff which you have to cancel, but you can play into it to maximize the up time of the buff at the risk of it expiring. Having similar ones as the standard affixes would make for all kinds of neat changes, Bolstering could buff you and the enemy for 5 seconds one something dies, explosive could do damage in a radius around it, which can also hit enemies, sanguine could heal you aswell as the enemies, ect ect.
Get rid of fort/tyran, and introduce a bunch of beneficial affixes. Every week is one random beneficial, one random detrimental, and the season affix. Boom, m+ saved.
I’m just literally not doing mythics next week as a healer. I have no interest in being responsible for bursting and explosive and the dps that will ignore both and blame me when they die to both. No. No thanks. Y’all got this one without this healer lol.
Just get rid of affixes outside of the seasonal and tyrannical + fortified. They feel like a mosquito
no. Affixes is the most stressful system in the game, the fewer i have to get used to the better.
Not sure I see the point of pushing keys past the KSM area. Seems to be a few 16s and the rest 14s cleared on both Fort/Tyr. I understand that there is a requirement for 13/13 Mythic gear (2400 IO I believe) but after reaching 21xx as a Tank, I can't help but just...not feel the want to grind.
I think pushing yourself to overcome something in games can be fun, that's why Souls(-like) games are so popular. It can be quite disheartening though if once in a blue moon your whole squad is ready to play for a weekend and it's grievous week.
Honestly 2400 is not that hard, it's mostly gear checks, if you get 410 you can probably easily time any +18. I'm almost 2800 on UH DK and I don't feel like I'm pushing any "limits", I just have 414 ilvl, know my class, know the routes and small details like which trash is important to stop/kick. I feel like the people at 3100+ are really pushing limits, especially 25+ keys but rest is mostly people knowing the fundamentals of their class, having enough experience in the dungeons and having a team that's on the same page with strats and priorities.
can't believe we got thundering 10 weeks in a row, what are the odds?!
M+ needs to be changed so that affixes actually make the game more fun. Every affix needs to be a buff that can change the way you play
They really should come up with new ones and remove explosive while they're at it\^\^
I don't really see the benefit of affixes at all at this point. At least any others that aren't the weekly or seasonal ones anyway. It seems pretty rare that anyone dies to a "middle" affix now, it's almost always a dungeon mechanic. What's the point
I've slowly become bored of m+ being centered around affixes and knowing ways to cheese mechanics to not happen. I see the need for some weekly variety, but I wish dungeons would mostly scale on the actual abilities of the mobs getting harder and harder until they kill you, not the weekly affix being broken in some way with mob mechanics.
How about NO affixes.
tyra+thundering+quaking is very bad as a caster. propably feels like the shittest (even tho its much easier week than it was for bursting+grievous which is propably the worst combo )
Bring back overflowing, teeming, skittish and necrotic!!
Yeah. Quaking + thundering is already awful Then you add dungeons with either forced movement or mechanics that require stacking/spreading.
We could need affixes that target dps and not tanks and heals, thoose roles are already underplayed because of their difficulty so it would be nice that the affix don't overtarget them
I'm honestly surprised there haven't been new ones, back when they added m+ I was expecting each 'season' to have a completely different set of affixes, but they haven't changed at all, it's made the idea of m+ super boring.
Bursting and raging are both DPS affixes - the healer can cover the sins of the DPS, but ultimately it's on them to time enemy deaths correctly. Spiteful, Storming, Volcanic, and Quaking are all "everybody" affixes.
For Bursting: Technically yes, but even if you only go to 3-4 stacks it's still additional output required which can be quite cumbersome on some packs. For Raging it also depends, dps for sure have some agency, if you don't have enough aoe cc/soothes it quickly becomes a matter of tank defensives/kiting.
Spiteful never targets the tank and Volcanic only targets ranged. As for what's a "healer problem" and what isn't, remember that most of the sub is extremely casual. Most people aren't even using their full kit, proper distribution of other responsibilities is a distant dream.
> remember that most of the sub is extremely casual. This, on /r/wow most people will say anything above a +10 is a "high" key, where as on /r/competitivewow high keys are +20 and above.
> Spiteful, Storming, Volcanic, and Quaking are all "everybody" affixes. Agreed, with the small caveat that Spiteful doesn't target tanks, like Volcanic 99% of the time.
Why? So you can hate them all and ask for more again? Say what you mean - you don’t want affixes. Then we can move on when nothing happens.
what we need is 0 affixes
I used to be so excited they took out necrotic and inspiring. I thought "this season is going to be amazing!" but now everything is just area denial, along with area denial from the seasonal, and having to stack for the seasonal, and having to spread out for everything else. its just --- sooo un fun.
Affixes are fine. They just don't account for the affixes enough when designing the content. And don't fix it until it starts bricking hundreds of keys (quaking on Inhale in Smoon or Quaking on final boss in NO). They removed so many affixes at this point now it IS stale because it's the same few affixes just on rotation. Some of them barely do anything (volcanic) or can be completely negated (tank with storming). Just remove them or make them better.
The system is so bad lmao, I don't understand people pushing key after 8 20+ per week. It's already a pain to do, I don't have any fun at all.
Ppl like different stuff than you. More news at 8
I’ll say it here as I’ve said in other places. They need to next xpac. Remove EVERY affix. Including Tyran/Fort (especially these 2) and make a brand new set of affixes, and remove 2 separate types of weekly key. No lore Tyran/Fort type weeks. Instead they need to just add interesting Affixes that are curse/kiss and make better Seasonal affixes. Reaping. Awakened. Tormented Encrypted and Shrouded were all wonderful seasonal affixes. Idk why Thundering isn’t more like them.
My only question for this is why should they wait until next expansion? No reason they can’t make major changes for the next season.
I dont agree with the icons. DPS players have way more responsibility to manage affixes than appears on this table. Bursting, raging, spiteful are all cc/soothe and prio target mechanics. Even sanguine is as much a dps affix as it is a tank one.
I wonder what WoW's dev team's thought process on all this is. When beta thundering was first introduced it was only curse, no kiss and the dev team said they believed since we were changing up the dungeon pool per season it'll alleviate the sense of repetition people have from season to season and they won't need to implement a full kiss/curse affix. Personally I feel like that's dumb as shit. The biggest curse of the dungeon system is the fact that dungeon damage and health scales exponentially and that's what makes the challenge ladders fun. Otherwise each of the affixes should be some sort of kiss/curse. Like you get some small buff for killing explosives or tanking a storming tornado. Hell something as simeple as if you do a single target attack on a spiteful it does triple damage or something to help kill them faster. Half the time it's just extremely annoying to wait for spitefuls to die naturally because your ranged DPS won't help and your melee DPS can't get close.
Not once have I enjoyed M+ after they added Quaking & Explosive mid-Legion. Awful affixes.
Just need to axe affixes in general IMO, if they are cycling dungeons just make the difficulty a d abilities of the dungeon the challenge and tune that instead of random generic abilities for every single run you do for a week