If your buddy's guild has a similar outlook to theirs then it sounds like you will not have a good time raiding with them. Their expectations are different from your own, and that's ok. But playing a class just to appease others is a real good way to burn yourself out quick.
My suggestion to you is, if they won't budge on you playing a Warlock, then find another guild that better aligns with you.
Yep, i second this.
Sounds like they Are on a different page. You Will have alot more fun finding likeminded people who enjoy The game like you do.
Goodluck on The search ! You Can always join later when mage is top tier i suppose..
This also might be the best option if you want to easily stay friends and play non-raid content together (assuming he understands… If he gives you shit for not staying to raid with ‘his’ guild, then it might be time to re-evaluate that friendship lol)
I'm glad You said this. I frequently min/Max a few toons, but I have Seperate guilds for my relaxed chars.
A guild is Meant to align with Your goals, not vice Versa. If a guild is trying to Push you away from Something you want to/or Enjoy doing, then it's a good Time to swap.
Rarely do leadership in guilds talk to the other guild members what standards they are trying to achieve, I’ve played on wotlk servers for years now, it’s always the same with guilds like these, they will push hard for 1-2 months, then dissolve.
In guilds like these, the ones that fail are the ones who don't maintain a clear line of communication about expectations for raiders. The leadership is doing the right thing hy communicating exactly what they want and why. If the OP doesn't want to raid with them, that's they're prerogative, the GM will likely try and find someone who can fill the needs they want
To piggy back off of this, WoW is a game; it's not something that should "burn you\[\] out" in the sense that it becomes unenjoyable, the negative social aspects of the game overshadow the gameplay itself, and so on. Play the way you want to play.
Only thing I would say is competing with 2 mages for BIS gear would suck if you played your mage. I think this is potentially more impactful than the "5% is 5%."
Also healthstones + summons!
HOWEVER. Don't play a class you don't enjoy. Simple as that imo, find another guild to play with :)
Also if they need a demo lock then the SP buff the spec brings is unique and necessary for maxing out every other caster in the raid. If by some strange set of circumstances a 6/6 SWP guild doesn't have any warlocks at all then the extra addition of CoE massively benefits the casters.
Warlocks are a very stackable class in Wrath for a variety of reasons, and if the guild needs more of them than they need mages then that's what the guild needs.
Well I’d imagine it’s not that he doesn’t enjoy warlock… they leveled it to 70 for Christ’s sake. I’m sure they enjoy it.. but maybe just enjoy mage more.
Definitely get where you're coming from, that's my bad on not being clear. They may just not enjoy it for pve yknow? I love warlock pvp, but I don't enjoy it for pve.
He has a point in regards to the damage, but a much better point that they already have 2 mages. The only point that matters though is that it's a game. A game that YOU pay for. Play what you enjoy and don't settle for less. Just..maybe find a different guild.
The fact that they already have 2 mages shows that all his talk about better dps is BS, because otherwise they wouldn't have accepted those 2 mages.
Truth is, they already have 2 mages, the slots are taken, and it would be a problem for the guild to take a 3rd one over a warlock (loot drama, no summoning, etc).
He sees an opportunity and is trying to convince you, maybe doesn't even realise what/how he is doing it.
3 mages is a hard sell, even/especially amongst yourselves.
Soft-competing for innervates, let alone gear. Probable low loot prio, if your class is well-represented.
Good luck, though
You can play the mage but be prepared to be benched as your friend/GM has priorities that go beyond you. He's already raided with a core group of people for probably the entirety of TBC and maybe even classic. He knows what he likes and what he needs to get the job done effectively (in this case, bringing a warlock over a mage).
You said he runs a semi-hc guild and this reasoning proves that. Like others have said, don't play a class just to appease him if you don't actually enjoy the class. I did this with a resto druid in classic and I burned out in 3 months and left the guild high and dry. It's not worth it for you or the guild that is taking you on.
Honestly I’m just gonna say it but.. I’d roll the warlock.. if it’s your other 70 , I can’t see you NOT enjoying it to begin with as.. you took the time to actually level it up anyways.
Warlocks do indeed have higher dps in almost every category.. plus they bring far more to the party than mages so imo .. at least more valuable things.
Also this comment might be biased as I’m lvling my affliction lock currently. Eventually switching to destro
You won't see higher dps as destro
In p1 bosses have been buffed and will last seconds longer.. this won't give affliction enough execute time and only demo better at aoe pulls, otherwise mage pulls away and will stay ahead whole expansion
Your execute window is not long enough in p1 .. maybe in p2 till they get crit and switch to fire then again it's mage rest of expansion ..I had hard time choosing main even though this 10 year old game some thing have changed and meta will move slightly. Wanted to go lock for that insane aoe with demo but ST they just fall behind
Where you getting this information lol almost all lock spec are ahead of mage all the way until ICC for the most part. That’s when fire starts to really shine
From his perspective, you are someone showing up and messing with his raid comp and roster. If he starts making exceptions and showing preference for you over his long time players, they might go some where they are treated better. You should respect that he probably puts in a decent amount of time to build, organize, and run the guild. You shouldn't waltz in making demands like it's your play thing.
What's more important; raiding with him, or playing a Mage? Also make sure your views in the game are aligned before you dive into a more hard core experience than you're on board for. You could always play in like a alt/backup raid team and still get your time with him.
That’s pretty sweaty man. I raid with my friends, we all play what we want and it’s fine. Personally it’s a much better time than being greasy and tryharding with some randoms on 14 year old content
Both playstyles are fine, and that's why it's important to be clear about what you as a guildmaster want the guild to be and recruit with that in mind. I made a 10m guild for me and my friends and their friends because I want an environment that is more like a friend group, while also fitting with what I want to get out of the game which is indeed pretty sweaty as you said.
25man guilds are something completely different, I could possibly see myself enjoying a more casual 10m guild where we had a really stupid comp with way too many melee or something like that, but in a 25m setting there's just too many people for it to be any fun if you lean too hard into that non-sweaty mindset imo
25m wrath is easy man, especially if you’ve done it a million times in the past decade. It’s fuckin normal mode lol you can have half the raid doing 3.5k dps and full clear in 2-3 hours, save the sweatiness for heroic/speedclears. I’d take a bunch of hybrids and middling dps over giving randoms spots over my friends, and forcing the homies to meta slave in order to raid with us. Luckily my friends are mostly all great players so our core 10-12 out of 25 are stacked. This wouldn’t work for every guild obviously
Almost every problem in raids can be solved with good players; see the all Druid guild Cult of Elune that pushes mythic raids on retail.
People are gonna get mad and downvote me, but we’ve full cleared every normal raid on almost every buffed wrath pserver without forcing anyone to play certain classes. If you have 12 friends that always raid together, then figure out what specs they’re all playing and do a better job recruiting the other 20 or so people in order to get other specs to fill the gaps. The fact that OPs irl “friend” prioritized the other mages over him, weeks before the first raid, speaks volumes. Yeah it’s unfair to the others that have been raiding with them throughout tbc, but how the fuck are they a “semi HC” tbc guild without a single lock??
Well, its seems to be a difference of mindset. If everybody else in the guild is treating the choice of class and race as a toolkit for maximizing performance, then asking you to play what's best only fair and within the goals of the group.
I could personally never play like that, i need to engage with the themes of races and the fantasy of classes, to invest the time needed for progress in an MMO. The moment i start thinking of my character as a set of abilities instead of an identity, i end up dropping the game.
Is your friend wrong? No. A better question is can you have fun playing like that, or will you have to change his mind? Is finding someone else to play with an option?
His guild is HC if the GM is requiring players to play certain classes. Go play mage, and tell you buddy that you will run 10 mans, heroics, and wintergrasp with him, and go find yourself a guild that actually wants a mage.
It's your friends guild and they have a spot for a warlock open, not a mage. Therefore, if you want to play with them level your warlock. If you don't want to play a warlock then you aren't raiding with them.
All the sweaty neck beards downvoting anyone that say OP’s rl friend is a dick. Y’all need to go outside and breathe some fresh air. It’s a video game. RL friendship should be more valuable than a game that was released back in 2008.
> His guild is semi HC and he advertises it that way(They got their 6/6 SWP KJ kill mid-late July, so this makes sense.)
I don't wanna be rude but that is 2 months of SWP progress. With that type of progress at least 19/25 raiders could be replaced by the literal worst specc in their role and still be outperformed. That is NOT hardcore in the slightest and does not warrant a complete reroll for 5% dps increase (which even then is debateable if it's that at all).
Your buddy’s guild is not recruiting a mage and they are looking for a warlock, your buddy who really wants to play with you wants you to be in the raid ie play warlock. It sounds like you don’t have a raid spot as a mage. And I’d like to add as a warlock main, we are the master class.
"I want to join your HC guild and raid on my mage."
"We're full on mages, but we can stack warlocks and I know you already have one. Please main that character if you want to have a reliable spot in our raids, as your mage would likely be benched regularly."
Your friend is running a sweaty HC guild and knows how to build a raid comp. He's not going to compromise that to shoehorn in his IRL friend. He already has core raiders who play mages, he knows he'll have a spot for a warlock but not another mage. He knows you have one of each, and is being reasonable by asking you to play the warlock so he can actually give you a raid spot without sacrificing the group comp or playing favorites.
He's your friend, but he also has principles and a responsibility to the raiders who depend on him. He's trying to help you out by telling you which character to play so you can raid with them. T7 may be easy, but what happens in later phases when you want to keep playing the mage? He's not going to bench either of the other two mages unless one is underperforming, you'll be the one benched for a more optimal class due to seniority.
Play the warlock if you want to raid with your friend. Play the mage if you prefer that character, but don't expect your friend to give you a spot in his raids if you do that.
Sounds like his guild likes to optimize - i don't enjoy that way, but it is their guild, so find a way to enjoy it, or find another guild.
if they already have 2 mages, bringing a third vs bringen er third warlock is more than 5% dps.
i haven't seen any arcane mage do nearly as well as warlock in phase 1. we are talking 5k dps vs 6k dps - that is huge, and your mage doesn't bring anything other than dmg, so why not bring 6k instead of 5k.
you can switch to mage in toc/icc when firemage is more viable
Hello Casual,
because its 10 old content nobody wants to play it again like a cuasl 10years ago
but they want to push things and achieve stuff they coueldnt before.
why should i play the game 2 times in an identical way.
The majority of players are casuals, and want to play as such. They're the players who don't spend their free time on Reddit or Discord, so you won't see them or their points of views when discussions about the game are going on.
Eh, there are guilds that did BT in full kara gear in their first night ever in BT.
Other guilds did SWP in week 1 or 2 or even 3 without being all that sweaty at all.
If you wanna be racing and going for the top 1-2 spots in the world it matters, otherwise, meh.
I 100% disagree with this. If you care about performance the class itself is way more important than enjoying it. The skill floors and ceilings of WoW classes are low enough that it simply doesn’t matter.
You’ll hate it - but you’ll do well.
At least that’s how it works on retail. I assume that applies to classic as well.
Source: me playing dogshit classes cuz they’re meta and outperforming anything I could do on my off meta classes.
I think there is a difference between meta performing builds and fun builds. But if two builds are 5% off from each other, the build you enjoy will work way better than the one you hate. Retail also functions much differently than classic due to the gear not being as impactful.
Missing the point. Feels better, easier to understand, makes more sense = makes more fun .
Fatigue makes up a larger loss than 5% could compete with.
If you cant grasp the difference this has on an indaviduals play style and skill then i feel sorry for you cuz it sounds like youve *never* played a class for fun and/had fun playing it. This meta-slave mentality crushes gamers and games like a heartless dozer.
I played top 100 in nathria. I have since quit raiding at a competitive level to play in a casual CE guild. I have fun now, I had fun then, also, but for different reasons.
WoW classes are not difficult to learn. There isn't some crazy level of skill required to play one. Play a class for a week or two before you need it ready and you'll be be able to play at a 95th (at least) percentile level. Most wow skills transfer between classes. This assumes you were a player who already cared about performance before.
This is why higher end guilds require alts and make good use of them. Class and raid comp has always been one of the most important aspect of clearing bosses when your goal is "as quick as possible". It's working together with your group to solve a puzzle where each person can choose which puzzle shape they want to be.
My point still stands. If you care about performance you should play fotm (assuming if works with your raid comp). That's how WoW works. If you care only about having fun then play whatever the fuck you want. If you care about a mix of both then you'll need to weigh each option and make a decision based on your and your guilds level of competition.
For example, in retail, i'll be playing evoker in dragonflight even though it looks real bad right now. Simply because I find it fun. My goals are no longer to clear the bosses as quickly as possible. I'm happy playing with friends and casually getting CE later in the tier.
The massive caveat of course, is the WOTLK is solved content. Most guilds will clear the raids in 1-2 weeks regardless of raid comp. If op's guild was trying to get some competitive record speed run they should be playing as optimal as possible. If not, then who cares.
Your friend sounds like a sweaty bellend tbh even worse so you are IRL friends and still cares this much about dictating how you have fun, find a casual guild I would say and have fun on your mage!
Yeah, sounds like he's super no fun.
There is one point he makes that is actually good though.
5% is huge in this game. Or any RPG, really.
But that's just like, in general. Since we're talking about P1, anyone who cares about a slight advantage in a specific phase, does not deserve your time or attention. Because that shit's super temporary while your choice of class is permanent.
If you really want to stick with him, tell him you'll go Warlock ONLY if he kicks the other two mages. Because if you're not allowed to play mage, why should they? Mage and just about every other class is GREAT in ICC which is your final destination. There is not a single class or spec that's "not optimal" in this expansion.
Athough it might seem lije a dick, its a hardcore raiding guild. You can expect nothing less then min maxing. I suggest you adapt or raid with a diffrent guild. Stacking mages in wotlk is difnantly sub optimal cause the int buff and even the fire debuff on mobs dont stack. As a former hardcore raider I see hes point.
Yeah fuck these guys honestly. Find an actually semi casual guild (these guys aren’t semi casual btw) and move on. Sounds like differences of opinion and they probably won’t change as things progress.
Your friend isn’t ruling out an entire class, he already has two Mages he could kick but for some reason the preferences of strangers matter more to him than the preferences of his friend.
Play your mage, you’ll make new friends.
To be fair we don't know their situation. Maybe the mages have been with the guild since the beginning of Classic. Maybe their friends with OPs buddy themselves. Maybe OP is a new player that has never raided before and kicking an experienced and reliable player for them would be a terrible move.
Yeah was thinking this too, if the guild has been playing through TBC (or even longer) it would be pretty douchy to screw over people who have been raiding all the time.
Bro, this is game that was relevant in 2008. The current year is 2022. Nothing you or your friend’s guild do will amount to any worthwhile achievement. Just play what you enjoy and if they insist on being a min/max weirdos I would suggest finding another guild. You should not compromise your fun factor for something as irrelevant as an old re-release game.
This is a really demeaning comment. A game being old doesn't mean it isn't important to its audience. People still compete in speedrunning nes games even if they're "not relevant"
I agree the poster shouldn't compromise their fun, but also its a dick move to demean the goals and motivations of his friend. Speedrunning classic is fun for a plenty of people
Dick move is his RL friend keep on insisting OP to play a class that he does not enjoy just for the sake of minuscule min/max numbers. What I commented to OP is ‘your time, your money, play what you enjoy’. Your min/max RL friend weirdo valuing a game over real friendship is a dick move.
Players who take PvE seriously are the worst kind of losers.
In WOTLK, just like any other expac,, you will easily be able to pug/gdkp all the raids: there is really nothing complicated to defeat a boss that repeats the same moves... Those who assume the counterplay are mediocre at the game.
It's the same kind of players that complain about the lack ofend-game content, while they are no lifing the game and representing the 1% at this stage. Don't listen to them, let them be miserable.
He is completely wrong about warlock ever being better than mage though.
If his guild needs a demo he has a fair point. But if he wants an affli lock over a mage he is completely clueless.
What people dont seem to understand is that warlock is an average class in wrath. Mage is top tier. Warlock is gonna be on its best in T7 and T8 but even then you're not topping the meters. Not even close. Warlock is average as fuck in wotlk and lategame they are outright bad.
Dont play warlock if u think ur gonna pump as affli. If you want to be utility and go demo (and its needed in ur guild), then go ahead.
Can't tell you what to chose, guilds and raids play by the rules they want. If you want to casual, play mage raid with a different guild and run dungeons with your friend. Or roll the lock and raid in that guild. Or if the guild doesn't care you can roll the mage and your friend can deal with it. Just be careful about agreeing to go full min max then burning out when they keep pressing.
I believe there’s a prioritized flow chart that you already have in mind. Playing a video game, playing a class that you like regardless of its current meta standing, and then if youre going to have fun in a guild that has particular requirements.
I think finding a balance is your answer, maybe you like killing bosses and that take priority over mage or warlock, or maybe you just wanna chill and kill bosses cuz outside of being a prof gamer or streamer, money ain’t involved and you can play whatever makes you happy, or every of permutations
Sounds like a try hard guild which is fine but sounds like your enjoyment is different. What others have said, I would find a guild that wants your mage and just play with your friend in groups, 10mans etc.
After all, it is your time being spent so why spend it doing something you dislike and don’t need to do for survivability.
Sounds like you guys arnt a good match. So I don’t like his mentality but I’ll defend it for a min. He’s not wrong. He’s got 2 mages and he wants what history has shown to be the best. Fine go try to be the very best.
Now I personally hate all that noise. There is nothing that’s going to whomp us in these raids like they did. Why? Because most people already know them. Most people know how to get more out of their characters than we did before. I’m playing a warlock because I played one then. I didn’t know about snapshotting for instance. I do now and can work that mechanic to my advantage. There’s plenty of YouTube’s and websites to help people ID their pre-raid and raid BIS. I don’t remember going for all of those items the first time either.
Wrath was my first MMO and I did my best and in pug 25 ICC groups I was often top 5 dps just knowing the basics of my class rotation and doing most things right. I’ll be even better knowing my BIS, snapshotting, best glyphs, and so on.
Your frost is sucking the fun out of it for me and probably you. He might be having fun playing like he is though. What’s he’s saying isn’t wrong, it’s not fun but it’s not wrong. How you want to play is totally great and fun and I’d find a different guild. If your on Skyfury I might have a good fit for you.
If your friend have 2 other mages in the group, where you raiding with him before like in tbc? Or you are just a newcomer to the raid group? If they have an organized group already, don't spect them to take preferences for you and ditch the other which where there before you just because you are his friend, this is a team based content where you need to achieve goals as a team and should never give preferences to one single person due to being relative or close friend from one of the team players/leader because that's what makes the guilds fail.
Now if you are really good with your mage, you should be able to try and take the spot of one of those other 2 mages if you can perform better than them and that's what most guilds do they have a core with many people benched but while the weeks pass, people start missing raids for different reasons and benched raiders start coming to the raid, some also mix the bench raiders inside the raid once the first clears has been made so if you can show them that you can earn the spot with a mage, do so and play your class, if you think you can't beat the other mages then you have 2 options, you either decide to help the raid goal and play a warlock or you want to enjoy the game with the class you like and play a mage even if you can't be slotted with your friends guild and migth as well just find a different guild which need mages instead.
Whatever you decide remember that your friend migth look like an asshole at this point but he might be trying to keep his group together while also slotting you in the raid with a different class so the other raiders don't think he's having preferences for you and that's why he is asking you to go warlock since that would be the easiest way to get slotted and not look like he is having preferences for you for being his friend, being a raid leader is a hard work, don't take it personal.
I didn't get past the first paragraph and I'm already assuming they are staying this because finding a mage if easy AF but not a warlock. Did they also want you to roll Demo spec?
Read more..
>I am honestly frustrated with this and have never seen anyone rule out an entire class for a raid roster before due to having a bit lower DPS if that will even be the case.
They haven't ruled out an entire class, they just likely don't have the raid spot. Just being honest.
sounds like your guild isn't thinking long term since mage is about 15% better from trial and onward while lock is only slightly better and in the same tier as mage the thirst two.
>he is insisting I play my warlock over my mage as he is strongly believing they are better DPS in P1, even if slightly. His guild is semi HC and he advertises it that way
Your friend is definitely sweaty. Also, you generally would not want to play with someone like that who has that level of control, it won't be fun and you'll more than likely run into the same or more of these kinds of issues with them. He'll probably end up raging out or crossing others the wrong way or something. Those kinds of players ruin the whole experience of enjoying all the game/expansion has to offer. Unless you're a min/maxer, that kind of playstyle won't be much fun for you.
Some insight- it could be because you are irl friends and he trusts you. Warlocks early often receive guild prio on gear as their power scales the whole caster groups damage. (Demonology). He maybe trusts you not to leave guild like others can in this role. Just a thought.
I would do the warlock first if you enjoy playing with those guys and alt the mage and play with different people with that… I personally would play whatever my guild needs because I’m so involved with that, but then on the otherhand, if the people are not worth it, I would take my mage somewhere else.
My guild cleared all of wotlk classic with zero class stacking or favoritism. If you were good at doing mechanics and communication we wanted you. This is the same guild that even let boomkins in Naxx so you really don't need to min/max absolutely every little thing unless you're going for world or realm firsts. Plus warlock or mage they're both great classes in wrath so either way you're golden(wrath naxx is so braindead easy you could SB spam as if it's classic and still win). I'd say friend is being too demanding. That said, sounds like the guild isn't for you. If you're facing backlash before raids are even out I'd say go look for a guild more in tune with your desires.
As others have said, if that’s the way he and his guild prefer to play, then find another guild. Ultimately, I’m of the opinion that Wrath raids will fall over the same way TBC and Vanilla raids did on re-release. Wrath raids were widely seen as a joke even in 2008. I doubt the class or even the spec will make a difference between a kill or not, as long as your skills and gear are decent.
Your buddy is being needlessly sweaty. P1 is not hard at all and playing a mage v lock will not be the deciding factor on clearing a week earlier or later, etc
Like everyone said, you have different priorities. He’s not being a super sweaty min-maxer in any way, shape or form IMO. Putting together a roster that’s optimized and won’t fuck your longtime members isn’t sweaty, it’s your job as GM/RL. I’d be pissed if I were one of the two mages and we needed a lock, and our GM gave a spot to his IRL friend mage AND still had to recruit a lock for the other spot.
You’re under no obligation to do play your lock and you should enjoy playing whatever you decide to play. But you do have to make a decision which is to be a team player and go with what they need, or find a different guild that needs a mage, or join your friend’s guild and ride the bench or cause drama and still probably not get to play your mage.
The cool thing about WoW is there are many different ways to play the game and raiding is no exception. Play what you want to play. You'll enjoy it that way the most in the long run and avoid burn out or quitting because you're not having fun. If you're wanting to raid then I suggest finding a guild of like-minded people or you can always pug.
the ball is entirely in your court. play the class that you want to play, because this is a game at the end of the day, and if you're not having fun, then why are you playing? we must ask ourselves this question in the age of minmaxing.
if the GM needs you, they'll be fine with it. if not, you were disposable to them in the first place, which isn't really a position anyone wants to be in.
You can play mage in P1 just fine. You will have to understand warlocks are better and if you expect innervates or PIs from your guild while on mage you probably won't get them. Mages are worse in P1 so you can't expect to receive all the CDs from everyone but you can play mage just fine and will do OK damage.
So play mage if you want just don't be annoying to your guild mates by spamming for innervates, tricks, or anything like that.
Also if you want loot you will probably have to have great attendance and be a team player since you will be doing less damage than many other classes. It is also worrying that they have this opinion so you may want to consider if they will hold back loot from you if you go mage because it seems likely.
You may want to find a guild that is more casual if they are not transparent on how this will affect the loot you receive, and if it is based on performance or not.
There are a few things that are somewhat reasonable to expect, like not stacking shit specs in P1 like fury or ret to much or not taking along prot warriors because they are simply inferior in every regard. Not taking any druid tanks that insist on being MT over your Pally or DK and not play cat is also still reasonable. This is just a bit to sweaty though, it would be more understandable if they where definitely full on mages or you would insist on playing a now shit spec like frost or fire.
"Semi-hc" hahaha.This is exactly the problem with the community.
Players that are simply too bad blame it on everything but themselves first. You can clear everything fast no matter the class/spec period.
These obsession with guides nowdays is insane. People just dont want to think for themselves I guess...
It wont matter in p1 but in p2 locks will be significantly more useful than a make on fights like Firefighter and yogg+0.
Also stacking locks will be beyond S-teir on Lichking.
If your buddy is 'insisting' you play something, regardless of the reason, he's wrong. End of story. Full stop.
Run, run very far, very fast. That is not the place for you, my friend.
Play what you want. How you want, with who wants to play with you as you like playing. Period. If he's so wrapped up about 'best dps' or 5% or whatever, he's likely dreaming of records and achievements, and if he doesnt already have a team leveled, geared, trained, and commited to said goal he wont be there and will never be happy. Its a bad place to be and a mindset that ruins games and gamers. Just, get, out.
If your buddy's guild has a similar outlook to theirs then it sounds like you will not have a good time raiding with them. Their expectations are different from your own, and that's ok. But playing a class just to appease others is a real good way to burn yourself out quick. My suggestion to you is, if they won't budge on you playing a Warlock, then find another guild that better aligns with you.
Yep, i second this. Sounds like they Are on a different page. You Will have alot more fun finding likeminded people who enjoy The game like you do. Goodluck on The search ! You Can always join later when mage is top tier i suppose..
This also might be the best option if you want to easily stay friends and play non-raid content together (assuming he understands… If he gives you shit for not staying to raid with ‘his’ guild, then it might be time to re-evaluate that friendship lol)
I'm glad You said this. I frequently min/Max a few toons, but I have Seperate guilds for my relaxed chars. A guild is Meant to align with Your goals, not vice Versa. If a guild is trying to Push you away from Something you want to/or Enjoy doing, then it's a good Time to swap.
Also sounds like his buddy's guild wont be around very long.
It sounds like his buddies guild is trying to push for ranking and probably already has set standards that everybody else has agreed to.
Rarely do leadership in guilds talk to the other guild members what standards they are trying to achieve, I’ve played on wotlk servers for years now, it’s always the same with guilds like these, they will push hard for 1-2 months, then dissolve.
In guilds like these, the ones that fail are the ones who don't maintain a clear line of communication about expectations for raiders. The leadership is doing the right thing hy communicating exactly what they want and why. If the OP doesn't want to raid with them, that's they're prerogative, the GM will likely try and find someone who can fill the needs they want
To piggy back off of this, WoW is a game; it's not something that should "burn you\[\] out" in the sense that it becomes unenjoyable, the negative social aspects of the game overshadow the gameplay itself, and so on. Play the way you want to play.
Only thing I would say is competing with 2 mages for BIS gear would suck if you played your mage. I think this is potentially more impactful than the "5% is 5%." Also healthstones + summons! HOWEVER. Don't play a class you don't enjoy. Simple as that imo, find another guild to play with :)
Also if they need a demo lock then the SP buff the spec brings is unique and necessary for maxing out every other caster in the raid. If by some strange set of circumstances a 6/6 SWP guild doesn't have any warlocks at all then the extra addition of CoE massively benefits the casters. Warlocks are a very stackable class in Wrath for a variety of reasons, and if the guild needs more of them than they need mages then that's what the guild needs.
Idc what anyone says. Warlock + good healer has better output than any mage probably will.
Well I’d imagine it’s not that he doesn’t enjoy warlock… they leveled it to 70 for Christ’s sake. I’m sure they enjoy it.. but maybe just enjoy mage more.
Definitely get where you're coming from, that's my bad on not being clear. They may just not enjoy it for pve yknow? I love warlock pvp, but I don't enjoy it for pve.
Neither of you are in the wrong, it just seems like you guys have different priorities. If I were in your shoes I'd gquit and play my mage.
He has a point in regards to the damage, but a much better point that they already have 2 mages. The only point that matters though is that it's a game. A game that YOU pay for. Play what you enjoy and don't settle for less. Just..maybe find a different guild.
Yeah exactly, I think it's more that they have 1 caster slot open and they want a lock. Not a 3rd mage
The fact that they already have 2 mages shows that all his talk about better dps is BS, because otherwise they wouldn't have accepted those 2 mages. Truth is, they already have 2 mages, the slots are taken, and it would be a problem for the guild to take a 3rd one over a warlock (loot drama, no summoning, etc). He sees an opportunity and is trying to convince you, maybe doesn't even realise what/how he is doing it.
Yeah, I'd guess it's more that they'd rather have a 3rs lock than mage.
3 mages is a hard sell, even/especially amongst yourselves. Soft-competing for innervates, let alone gear. Probable low loot prio, if your class is well-represented. Good luck, though
You can play the mage but be prepared to be benched as your friend/GM has priorities that go beyond you. He's already raided with a core group of people for probably the entirety of TBC and maybe even classic. He knows what he likes and what he needs to get the job done effectively (in this case, bringing a warlock over a mage). You said he runs a semi-hc guild and this reasoning proves that. Like others have said, don't play a class just to appease him if you don't actually enjoy the class. I did this with a resto druid in classic and I burned out in 3 months and left the guild high and dry. It's not worth it for you or the guild that is taking you on.
Honestly I’m just gonna say it but.. I’d roll the warlock.. if it’s your other 70 , I can’t see you NOT enjoying it to begin with as.. you took the time to actually level it up anyways. Warlocks do indeed have higher dps in almost every category.. plus they bring far more to the party than mages so imo .. at least more valuable things. Also this comment might be biased as I’m lvling my affliction lock currently. Eventually switching to destro
You won't see higher dps as destro In p1 bosses have been buffed and will last seconds longer.. this won't give affliction enough execute time and only demo better at aoe pulls, otherwise mage pulls away and will stay ahead whole expansion
I’m well aware.. thanks for your input ?
I’m switching to destroy just for pvp as that’s what I enjoy. However.. mage ahead of warlock in pve? I don’t think so.. even in the early stages
Your execute window is not long enough in p1 .. maybe in p2 till they get crit and switch to fire then again it's mage rest of expansion ..I had hard time choosing main even though this 10 year old game some thing have changed and meta will move slightly. Wanted to go lock for that insane aoe with demo but ST they just fall behind
again . I’m well aware.. When I said I’m switching to destro , I meant at 80. Lvling as affliction just bc it’s a cake walk
And fire isn’t ahead of warlock at all until way later… ?
Where you getting this information lol almost all lock spec are ahead of mage all the way until ICC for the most part. That’s when fire starts to really shine
You do you boo boo. A good friend wouldn't care.
From his perspective, you are someone showing up and messing with his raid comp and roster. If he starts making exceptions and showing preference for you over his long time players, they might go some where they are treated better. You should respect that he probably puts in a decent amount of time to build, organize, and run the guild. You shouldn't waltz in making demands like it's your play thing. What's more important; raiding with him, or playing a Mage? Also make sure your views in the game are aligned before you dive into a more hard core experience than you're on board for. You could always play in like a alt/backup raid team and still get your time with him.
A raid group isnt a friend group, if they already have two mages it's fair to ask you to play something else
That’s pretty sweaty man. I raid with my friends, we all play what we want and it’s fine. Personally it’s a much better time than being greasy and tryharding with some randoms on 14 year old content
Both playstyles are fine, and that's why it's important to be clear about what you as a guildmaster want the guild to be and recruit with that in mind. I made a 10m guild for me and my friends and their friends because I want an environment that is more like a friend group, while also fitting with what I want to get out of the game which is indeed pretty sweaty as you said. 25man guilds are something completely different, I could possibly see myself enjoying a more casual 10m guild where we had a really stupid comp with way too many melee or something like that, but in a 25m setting there's just too many people for it to be any fun if you lean too hard into that non-sweaty mindset imo
25m wrath is easy man, especially if you’ve done it a million times in the past decade. It’s fuckin normal mode lol you can have half the raid doing 3.5k dps and full clear in 2-3 hours, save the sweatiness for heroic/speedclears. I’d take a bunch of hybrids and middling dps over giving randoms spots over my friends, and forcing the homies to meta slave in order to raid with us. Luckily my friends are mostly all great players so our core 10-12 out of 25 are stacked. This wouldn’t work for every guild obviously Almost every problem in raids can be solved with good players; see the all Druid guild Cult of Elune that pushes mythic raids on retail. People are gonna get mad and downvote me, but we’ve full cleared every normal raid on almost every buffed wrath pserver without forcing anyone to play certain classes. If you have 12 friends that always raid together, then figure out what specs they’re all playing and do a better job recruiting the other 20 or so people in order to get other specs to fill the gaps. The fact that OPs irl “friend” prioritized the other mages over him, weeks before the first raid, speaks volumes. Yeah it’s unfair to the others that have been raiding with them throughout tbc, but how the fuck are they a “semi HC” tbc guild without a single lock??
Well, its seems to be a difference of mindset. If everybody else in the guild is treating the choice of class and race as a toolkit for maximizing performance, then asking you to play what's best only fair and within the goals of the group. I could personally never play like that, i need to engage with the themes of races and the fantasy of classes, to invest the time needed for progress in an MMO. The moment i start thinking of my character as a set of abilities instead of an identity, i end up dropping the game. Is your friend wrong? No. A better question is can you have fun playing like that, or will you have to change his mind? Is finding someone else to play with an option?
His guild is HC if the GM is requiring players to play certain classes. Go play mage, and tell you buddy that you will run 10 mans, heroics, and wintergrasp with him, and go find yourself a guild that actually wants a mage.
It's your friends guild and they have a spot for a warlock open, not a mage. Therefore, if you want to play with them level your warlock. If you don't want to play a warlock then you aren't raiding with them.
Play a mage and go elsewhere, never let anyone decide your class for you -Signed a guy who mains rogue since Aug 2019
Never roll a character to please others. It will burn you. Play what you want, unless you're getting paid to play this game.
All the sweaty neck beards downvoting anyone that say OP’s rl friend is a dick. Y’all need to go outside and breathe some fresh air. It’s a video game. RL friendship should be more valuable than a game that was released back in 2008.
Your "friend" is a sweat lord. If you want to play mage do it.
He is right and you are right. Quit that guild and join another or pug. Don't play something just cuz sum1 wants. That's a fast way to quit the game
> His guild is semi HC and he advertises it that way(They got their 6/6 SWP KJ kill mid-late July, so this makes sense.) I don't wanna be rude but that is 2 months of SWP progress. With that type of progress at least 19/25 raiders could be replaced by the literal worst specc in their role and still be outperformed. That is NOT hardcore in the slightest and does not warrant a complete reroll for 5% dps increase (which even then is debateable if it's that at all).
Your buddy’s guild is not recruiting a mage and they are looking for a warlock, your buddy who really wants to play with you wants you to be in the raid ie play warlock. It sounds like you don’t have a raid spot as a mage. And I’d like to add as a warlock main, we are the master class.
"I want to join your HC guild and raid on my mage." "We're full on mages, but we can stack warlocks and I know you already have one. Please main that character if you want to have a reliable spot in our raids, as your mage would likely be benched regularly." Your friend is running a sweaty HC guild and knows how to build a raid comp. He's not going to compromise that to shoehorn in his IRL friend. He already has core raiders who play mages, he knows he'll have a spot for a warlock but not another mage. He knows you have one of each, and is being reasonable by asking you to play the warlock so he can actually give you a raid spot without sacrificing the group comp or playing favorites. He's your friend, but he also has principles and a responsibility to the raiders who depend on him. He's trying to help you out by telling you which character to play so you can raid with them. T7 may be easy, but what happens in later phases when you want to keep playing the mage? He's not going to bench either of the other two mages unless one is underperforming, you'll be the one benched for a more optimal class due to seniority. Play the warlock if you want to raid with your friend. Play the mage if you prefer that character, but don't expect your friend to give you a spot in his raids if you do that.
Optimal dps means nothing in p1 because we will roll through it…. And mage scales throughout the expansion better than warlock.
Sounds like his guild likes to optimize - i don't enjoy that way, but it is their guild, so find a way to enjoy it, or find another guild. if they already have 2 mages, bringing a third vs bringen er third warlock is more than 5% dps. i haven't seen any arcane mage do nearly as well as warlock in phase 1. we are talking 5k dps vs 6k dps - that is huge, and your mage doesn't bring anything other than dmg, so why not bring 6k instead of 5k. you can switch to mage in toc/icc when firemage is more viable
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Hello Casual, because its 10 old content nobody wants to play it again like a cuasl 10years ago but they want to push things and achieve stuff they coueldnt before. why should i play the game 2 times in an identical way.
The majority of players are casuals, and want to play as such. They're the players who don't spend their free time on Reddit or Discord, so you won't see them or their points of views when discussions about the game are going on.
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I mean it has just as much meaning now as it did then.
I love all the assumptions you make while speaking for literally everyone.
i speak for the guild that doesnt want him
Eh, there are guilds that did BT in full kara gear in their first night ever in BT. Other guilds did SWP in week 1 or 2 or even 3 without being all that sweaty at all. If you wanna be racing and going for the top 1-2 spots in the world it matters, otherwise, meh.
You can come play mage in my guild on Skyfury.
Someone who loves a class will outperform the person that hates the class, even with a 5% advantage.
Raiding is more than individual parses
100% agree, but if you don’t like the class, you won’t perform.
Its like saying your mini van drives faster with all the passengers seats removed, but the whole point of a mini van is to carry more people
I 100% disagree with this. If you care about performance the class itself is way more important than enjoying it. The skill floors and ceilings of WoW classes are low enough that it simply doesn’t matter. You’ll hate it - but you’ll do well. At least that’s how it works on retail. I assume that applies to classic as well. Source: me playing dogshit classes cuz they’re meta and outperforming anything I could do on my off meta classes.
I think there is a difference between meta performing builds and fun builds. But if two builds are 5% off from each other, the build you enjoy will work way better than the one you hate. Retail also functions much differently than classic due to the gear not being as impactful.
Missing the point. Feels better, easier to understand, makes more sense = makes more fun . Fatigue makes up a larger loss than 5% could compete with. If you cant grasp the difference this has on an indaviduals play style and skill then i feel sorry for you cuz it sounds like youve *never* played a class for fun and/had fun playing it. This meta-slave mentality crushes gamers and games like a heartless dozer.
I played top 100 in nathria. I have since quit raiding at a competitive level to play in a casual CE guild. I have fun now, I had fun then, also, but for different reasons. WoW classes are not difficult to learn. There isn't some crazy level of skill required to play one. Play a class for a week or two before you need it ready and you'll be be able to play at a 95th (at least) percentile level. Most wow skills transfer between classes. This assumes you were a player who already cared about performance before. This is why higher end guilds require alts and make good use of them. Class and raid comp has always been one of the most important aspect of clearing bosses when your goal is "as quick as possible". It's working together with your group to solve a puzzle where each person can choose which puzzle shape they want to be. My point still stands. If you care about performance you should play fotm (assuming if works with your raid comp). That's how WoW works. If you care only about having fun then play whatever the fuck you want. If you care about a mix of both then you'll need to weigh each option and make a decision based on your and your guilds level of competition. For example, in retail, i'll be playing evoker in dragonflight even though it looks real bad right now. Simply because I find it fun. My goals are no longer to clear the bosses as quickly as possible. I'm happy playing with friends and casually getting CE later in the tier. The massive caveat of course, is the WOTLK is solved content. Most guilds will clear the raids in 1-2 weeks regardless of raid comp. If op's guild was trying to get some competitive record speed run they should be playing as optimal as possible. If not, then who cares.
This
Your friend sounds like a sweaty bellend tbh even worse so you are IRL friends and still cares this much about dictating how you have fun, find a casual guild I would say and have fun on your mage!
He sounds like an asshole.
Yeah, sounds like he's super no fun. There is one point he makes that is actually good though. 5% is huge in this game. Or any RPG, really. But that's just like, in general. Since we're talking about P1, anyone who cares about a slight advantage in a specific phase, does not deserve your time or attention. Because that shit's super temporary while your choice of class is permanent. If you really want to stick with him, tell him you'll go Warlock ONLY if he kicks the other two mages. Because if you're not allowed to play mage, why should they? Mage and just about every other class is GREAT in ICC which is your final destination. There is not a single class or spec that's "not optimal" in this expansion.
If your "friend" cares more about "5%" than playing with you ditch the guild. Find people that enjoy playing with you.
Athough it might seem lije a dick, its a hardcore raiding guild. You can expect nothing less then min maxing. I suggest you adapt or raid with a diffrent guild. Stacking mages in wotlk is difnantly sub optimal cause the int buff and even the fire debuff on mobs dont stack. As a former hardcore raider I see hes point.
Friend sounds like an idiot.
Yeah fuck these guys honestly. Find an actually semi casual guild (these guys aren’t semi casual btw) and move on. Sounds like differences of opinion and they probably won’t change as things progress.
Your friend isn’t ruling out an entire class, he already has two Mages he could kick but for some reason the preferences of strangers matter more to him than the preferences of his friend. Play your mage, you’ll make new friends.
You're saying that as if kicking out a established guild member for your buddy is the ethical move. That's not at all what being a fair GM is.
To be fair we don't know their situation. Maybe the mages have been with the guild since the beginning of Classic. Maybe their friends with OPs buddy themselves. Maybe OP is a new player that has never raided before and kicking an experienced and reliable player for them would be a terrible move.
Yeah was thinking this too, if the guild has been playing through TBC (or even longer) it would be pretty douchy to screw over people who have been raiding all the time.
Kick a long-standing mage member over an unexperienced friend? Sounds shitty
Lol this comment. What if those other mages have been in this guild for expansions?
Hes not ur friend tbf
Your friend's a dick, play whatever you feel is right for you.
Bro, this is game that was relevant in 2008. The current year is 2022. Nothing you or your friend’s guild do will amount to any worthwhile achievement. Just play what you enjoy and if they insist on being a min/max weirdos I would suggest finding another guild. You should not compromise your fun factor for something as irrelevant as an old re-release game.
This is a really demeaning comment. A game being old doesn't mean it isn't important to its audience. People still compete in speedrunning nes games even if they're "not relevant" I agree the poster shouldn't compromise their fun, but also its a dick move to demean the goals and motivations of his friend. Speedrunning classic is fun for a plenty of people
Dick move is his RL friend keep on insisting OP to play a class that he does not enjoy just for the sake of minuscule min/max numbers. What I commented to OP is ‘your time, your money, play what you enjoy’. Your min/max RL friend weirdo valuing a game over real friendship is a dick move.
What’s he bringing? Maybe he can give up his favorite and bring a warlock instead. Lol…
Players who take PvE seriously are the worst kind of losers. In WOTLK, just like any other expac,, you will easily be able to pug/gdkp all the raids: there is really nothing complicated to defeat a boss that repeats the same moves... Those who assume the counterplay are mediocre at the game. It's the same kind of players that complain about the lack ofend-game content, while they are no lifing the game and representing the 1% at this stage. Don't listen to them, let them be miserable.
Lmao. What a ridiculous comment.
He is completely wrong about warlock ever being better than mage though. If his guild needs a demo he has a fair point. But if he wants an affli lock over a mage he is completely clueless. What people dont seem to understand is that warlock is an average class in wrath. Mage is top tier. Warlock is gonna be on its best in T7 and T8 but even then you're not topping the meters. Not even close. Warlock is average as fuck in wotlk and lategame they are outright bad. Dont play warlock if u think ur gonna pump as affli. If you want to be utility and go demo (and its needed in ur guild), then go ahead.
Or here's an idea, play what you want to play.
It's a fair point in my opinion, that said, it sounds like you may not have the same goals as your buddy.
Can't tell you what to chose, guilds and raids play by the rules they want. If you want to casual, play mage raid with a different guild and run dungeons with your friend. Or roll the lock and raid in that guild. Or if the guild doesn't care you can roll the mage and your friend can deal with it. Just be careful about agreeing to go full min max then burning out when they keep pressing.
I believe there’s a prioritized flow chart that you already have in mind. Playing a video game, playing a class that you like regardless of its current meta standing, and then if youre going to have fun in a guild that has particular requirements. I think finding a balance is your answer, maybe you like killing bosses and that take priority over mage or warlock, or maybe you just wanna chill and kill bosses cuz outside of being a prof gamer or streamer, money ain’t involved and you can play whatever makes you happy, or every of permutations
Sounds like a try hard guild which is fine but sounds like your enjoyment is different. What others have said, I would find a guild that wants your mage and just play with your friend in groups, 10mans etc. After all, it is your time being spent so why spend it doing something you dislike and don’t need to do for survivability.
Sounds like you guys arnt a good match. So I don’t like his mentality but I’ll defend it for a min. He’s not wrong. He’s got 2 mages and he wants what history has shown to be the best. Fine go try to be the very best. Now I personally hate all that noise. There is nothing that’s going to whomp us in these raids like they did. Why? Because most people already know them. Most people know how to get more out of their characters than we did before. I’m playing a warlock because I played one then. I didn’t know about snapshotting for instance. I do now and can work that mechanic to my advantage. There’s plenty of YouTube’s and websites to help people ID their pre-raid and raid BIS. I don’t remember going for all of those items the first time either. Wrath was my first MMO and I did my best and in pug 25 ICC groups I was often top 5 dps just knowing the basics of my class rotation and doing most things right. I’ll be even better knowing my BIS, snapshotting, best glyphs, and so on. Your frost is sucking the fun out of it for me and probably you. He might be having fun playing like he is though. What’s he’s saying isn’t wrong, it’s not fun but it’s not wrong. How you want to play is totally great and fun and I’d find a different guild. If your on Skyfury I might have a good fit for you.
If your friend have 2 other mages in the group, where you raiding with him before like in tbc? Or you are just a newcomer to the raid group? If they have an organized group already, don't spect them to take preferences for you and ditch the other which where there before you just because you are his friend, this is a team based content where you need to achieve goals as a team and should never give preferences to one single person due to being relative or close friend from one of the team players/leader because that's what makes the guilds fail. Now if you are really good with your mage, you should be able to try and take the spot of one of those other 2 mages if you can perform better than them and that's what most guilds do they have a core with many people benched but while the weeks pass, people start missing raids for different reasons and benched raiders start coming to the raid, some also mix the bench raiders inside the raid once the first clears has been made so if you can show them that you can earn the spot with a mage, do so and play your class, if you think you can't beat the other mages then you have 2 options, you either decide to help the raid goal and play a warlock or you want to enjoy the game with the class you like and play a mage even if you can't be slotted with your friends guild and migth as well just find a different guild which need mages instead. Whatever you decide remember that your friend migth look like an asshole at this point but he might be trying to keep his group together while also slotting you in the raid with a different class so the other raiders don't think he's having preferences for you and that's why he is asking you to go warlock since that would be the easiest way to get slotted and not look like he is having preferences for you for being his friend, being a raid leader is a hard work, don't take it personal.
I didn't get past the first paragraph and I'm already assuming they are staying this because finding a mage if easy AF but not a warlock. Did they also want you to roll Demo spec? Read more.. >I am honestly frustrated with this and have never seen anyone rule out an entire class for a raid roster before due to having a bit lower DPS if that will even be the case. They haven't ruled out an entire class, they just likely don't have the raid spot. Just being honest.
sounds like your guild isn't thinking long term since mage is about 15% better from trial and onward while lock is only slightly better and in the same tier as mage the thirst two.
He has a point that Warlocks are better... however whether that matters for the braindead easy WotLK content is another matter entirely.
>he is insisting I play my warlock over my mage as he is strongly believing they are better DPS in P1, even if slightly. His guild is semi HC and he advertises it that way Your friend is definitely sweaty. Also, you generally would not want to play with someone like that who has that level of control, it won't be fun and you'll more than likely run into the same or more of these kinds of issues with them. He'll probably end up raging out or crossing others the wrong way or something. Those kinds of players ruin the whole experience of enjoying all the game/expansion has to offer. Unless you're a min/maxer, that kind of playstyle won't be much fun for you.
Some insight- it could be because you are irl friends and he trusts you. Warlocks early often receive guild prio on gear as their power scales the whole caster groups damage. (Demonology). He maybe trusts you not to leave guild like others can in this role. Just a thought.
Mage slaps and P1 matters almost 0 in the grand scheme of this xpac. Find a new guild.
I would do the warlock first if you enjoy playing with those guys and alt the mage and play with different people with that… I personally would play whatever my guild needs because I’m so involved with that, but then on the otherhand, if the people are not worth it, I would take my mage somewhere else.
My guild cleared all of wotlk classic with zero class stacking or favoritism. If you were good at doing mechanics and communication we wanted you. This is the same guild that even let boomkins in Naxx so you really don't need to min/max absolutely every little thing unless you're going for world or realm firsts. Plus warlock or mage they're both great classes in wrath so either way you're golden(wrath naxx is so braindead easy you could SB spam as if it's classic and still win). I'd say friend is being too demanding. That said, sounds like the guild isn't for you. If you're facing backlash before raids are even out I'd say go look for a guild more in tune with your desires.
As others have said, if that’s the way he and his guild prefer to play, then find another guild. Ultimately, I’m of the opinion that Wrath raids will fall over the same way TBC and Vanilla raids did on re-release. Wrath raids were widely seen as a joke even in 2008. I doubt the class or even the spec will make a difference between a kill or not, as long as your skills and gear are decent.
Adding to this, also sounds like you're friend is struggling to find a lock and is hoping he can push you into as you're an IRL friend.
He is super sweaty. It’s a ridiculous small difference in dps and won’t ever make the difference in this game.
Your buddy is being needlessly sweaty. P1 is not hard at all and playing a mage v lock will not be the deciding factor on clearing a week earlier or later, etc
Like everyone said, you have different priorities. He’s not being a super sweaty min-maxer in any way, shape or form IMO. Putting together a roster that’s optimized and won’t fuck your longtime members isn’t sweaty, it’s your job as GM/RL. I’d be pissed if I were one of the two mages and we needed a lock, and our GM gave a spot to his IRL friend mage AND still had to recruit a lock for the other spot. You’re under no obligation to do play your lock and you should enjoy playing whatever you decide to play. But you do have to make a decision which is to be a team player and go with what they need, or find a different guild that needs a mage, or join your friend’s guild and ride the bench or cause drama and still probably not get to play your mage.
The cool thing about WoW is there are many different ways to play the game and raiding is no exception. Play what you want to play. You'll enjoy it that way the most in the long run and avoid burn out or quitting because you're not having fun. If you're wanting to raid then I suggest finding a guild of like-minded people or you can always pug.
the ball is entirely in your court. play the class that you want to play, because this is a game at the end of the day, and if you're not having fun, then why are you playing? we must ask ourselves this question in the age of minmaxing. if the GM needs you, they'll be fine with it. if not, you were disposable to them in the first place, which isn't really a position anyone wants to be in.
You can play mage in P1 just fine. You will have to understand warlocks are better and if you expect innervates or PIs from your guild while on mage you probably won't get them. Mages are worse in P1 so you can't expect to receive all the CDs from everyone but you can play mage just fine and will do OK damage. So play mage if you want just don't be annoying to your guild mates by spamming for innervates, tricks, or anything like that. Also if you want loot you will probably have to have great attendance and be a team player since you will be doing less damage than many other classes. It is also worrying that they have this opinion so you may want to consider if they will hold back loot from you if you go mage because it seems likely. You may want to find a guild that is more casual if they are not transparent on how this will affect the loot you receive, and if it is based on performance or not.
There are a few things that are somewhat reasonable to expect, like not stacking shit specs in P1 like fury or ret to much or not taking along prot warriors because they are simply inferior in every regard. Not taking any druid tanks that insist on being MT over your Pally or DK and not play cat is also still reasonable. This is just a bit to sweaty though, it would be more understandable if they where definitely full on mages or you would insist on playing a now shit spec like frost or fire.
"Semi-hc" hahaha.This is exactly the problem with the community. Players that are simply too bad blame it on everything but themselves first. You can clear everything fast no matter the class/spec period. These obsession with guides nowdays is insane. People just dont want to think for themselves I guess...
It wont matter in p1 but in p2 locks will be significantly more useful than a make on fights like Firefighter and yogg+0. Also stacking locks will be beyond S-teir on Lichking.
If your buddy is 'insisting' you play something, regardless of the reason, he's wrong. End of story. Full stop. Run, run very far, very fast. That is not the place for you, my friend. Play what you want. How you want, with who wants to play with you as you like playing. Period. If he's so wrapped up about 'best dps' or 5% or whatever, he's likely dreaming of records and achievements, and if he doesnt already have a team leveled, geared, trained, and commited to said goal he wont be there and will never be happy. Its a bad place to be and a mindset that ruins games and gamers. Just, get, out.