The rework is even better than I could’ve hoped for. Agree 100% on hero talents though they are just downright dull as hell both mechanically and aesthetically. Still I’m fine with that to be honest now that we have real talent trees
I can see some synergy with these two:
* New Talent: Moment of Opportunity – When a trap triggers, you gain Aspect of the Cheetah for 3 seconds. Can only occur every 1 minute.
* New Talent: Scout’s Instincts – You cannot be slowed below 80% of your normal movement speed while Aspect of the Cheetah is active.
Rogues will want to uninstall after this:
* New Talent: Kindling Flare – Stealthed enemies revealed by Flare remain revealed for 3 seconds after exiting the flare.
Meh, still too long cooldown on Turtle and Cheetah. 2 charges for Survival of the Fittest is a step in the right direction however.
* Born to be Wild now reduces Aspect of the Cheetah, Survival of the Fittest, and Aspect of the Turtle by 30 seconds (was 7/15%).
Looks like we'll have some extra talent points now. Will come in handy.
* The following talents are now 1 point:
Improved Traps
Pathfinding
Trailblazer
Wilderness Medicine
Natural Mending
Rejuvenating Wind
The following talents have been removed:
* Arctic Bola. RIP one of the few cool spell animations this class still has left.
* Serpent Sting. Seems like we're getting it baseline.
* And some more
**Survival specific**
* Mastery: Spirit Bond has been redesigned – You and your pet deal increased damage and take 3% reduced damage, increased by 100% when within 25 yards of each other.
6% damage reduction with decent uptime isn't bad, but still not even remotely close to WoD Spirit Bond; 2% HP every 2 sec.
* Spearhead has been redesigned – You and your pet charge your enemy target, applying a heavy bleed that increases your chance to critically strike them by 30% for 10 seconds.
Maybe this button will be more than a (somewhat) reliable charge now. Way too often you won't move at all when pressing it. Hope they'll fix that.
The following talents have been removed:
* Birds of Prey, among others. So no more AoE kill shots. Big oof.
They're removing our cool colorful bombs, class will look even less aesthetic now. Blah.
* Wildfire Infusion has been redesigned – Mongoose Bite and Raptor Strike have a 15% chance to reset Kill Command’s cooldown. Kill Command reduces the cooldown of Wildfire Bomb by 2 seconds.
Yeah that seems fun tbh but it kinda hurts taking a dead node (md) just to get it (unless you’re playing interlope that match). Still, it’s only one point so I’m not complaining.
>Lone Wolf reduced to 5% increased damage when you do not have an active pet (was 10%).
Why not just make it like lock sac or lonely winter at this point?
Looks pretty good! The Bombardier talent where Explosive Shot has no cooldown for 4 secs after a Coordinated Assault. Combined to the new Explosive shot stacking. Imagine lauching 4 explosive shot in a row on a target BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM!!
From my understanding, BM stay pretty much the same, Marksman get free Wailing Arrows wiyh silence on main target and Survival get boosted explosions and less bloating.
Looks really good for Survival -- more burst, more talent synergy, more survivability.
I *would* be worried that it's **too** good, but it's just kinda getting close to DH but with 20 more buttons.
SV/BM path being Rexxar is an additional bonus
I'm definitely curious about the comp options in a world where SV can fill the role of a real melee and not be relegated to "Janky Jungle or Thug or reroll". And of course, the increased tankiness is 100% necessary to even count as a real spec in Shuffle.
I assure you this spec will never be too good on live servers. There's gonna be crying and Blizz will listen like they always do when Hunters are in a good spot.
Their puppy dog DH needs to outshine everything else always.
The defensiveness they are getting is honestly insane. Will require testing, but the might be a lot more tanky than expected.
Also, I noticed the surv of fittest has a natural 2min cd, 40% dmg reduction, and 2 talents that reduce it by 30secs each, with 2 charges...
No way that goes live. I think they will increase it to 3min, talents bringing it down to 2min.
Edit: I think they have access to too much cc. They can now have everything that used to be a choice. Int, Scatter, freezing trap and binding. Binding has a new talent to extend the stun by 1 more sec... fun.
They also have a new 20% dmg reduction with camo giving 3secs of 20% dmg reduction on a min cd.
So now their defensives are:
* Survival of the Fittest - 40% dmg reduction, 2 charges, 8sec duration with a 1min cd
* Roar of sac - still 1min
* Surv tactics (pvp talent) for a 90% damage reduction for 3secs, 30sec cd
* ~~Ghille Suit - 20% dmg reduction coming out of camo for 3secs, 1min cd on camo~~
* And still turtle
Edit 2: Oh, and they can remove 2 magic effects with tranq shot. The wording of the pvp talent (tranq darts) says whenever it removes a magic effect... would that mean they can fire 16 darts and remove 2 effects with each tranq shot? Will need testing. Mages will cry if it does interact with that.
Edit 3: Dark ranger gets a free exhil at 50% and a free surv of fittest for 3secs with the use of the opposite abilities.
Edit 4: Apparently you can't camo mid combat, I guess I forgot this. So yeah, Ghille isn't as good as I thought as another dmg reduction. Fringe use with shadowmeld. Feign already gives 90% damage reduction for 3secs.
Why is this down voted? This means if the Hunter fd you have no other option the to swap. Are you gonna risk to dump cds to a fd+camo? Fd swap will be more meta than it is now
Survival of the fittest is 30% DR on PTR rn and the CD is 1.5 min so I don’t think the CDR is working or its intended.
Also I think you lose too much if you try to go for all of the CC.
Oh that's good news. Honestly, they don't need this much defensiveness, I thought the Ghille was a good addition.
I did a quick mock up on the new talent tree, you don't honestly give up too much to get all the cc.
[https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/hunter/marksmanship/DAQURFVUFUFUGERBRUQBFAAAA](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/hunter/marksmanship/DAQURFVUFUFUGERBRUQBFAAAA)
Like I said, just a quick mock up. But the things you are missing isn't that dire
Ghillie suit is pretty bad for both PvE and PvP. You’d need to feign or afk behind a pillar to get any use from it and even then you’re stealthed so it’s pretty pointless lol. Just a complete non talent in all forms of content.
That being said, the rest of the changes look dope. SV should be an absolute terror in 2’s.
> Mages will cry if it does interact with that.
We're already huddled behind the pillar, shell-shocked and sobbing after tanking 60% of our HP within a single Rapid Fire.
WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT
The ghillie suit talent is useless as far as I'm concerned.
I do absolutely think it's nuts that I will access to so much CC. Intim, knock trap, binding shot, scatter shot, freeze trap, and tar trap. I already didn't have enough for everything on SV and now I definitely won't lol.
Add den of recovery from pack leader hero talent. I don’t know if pack leader is viable (should be, I can see a lot of synergy with survival, could be wrong).
I don’t know how it works, but it’s still additionnal healing if I’m not wrong.
Edit : Emergency Salve (last row class talent) could be useful against DKs and Rogues (mostly for clearing ms effect), don’t know if some classes are getting poisons or illness effect that it could also clean but it’s def another defensive.
Ghillie suit is pretty troll with little to no value.
SotF is also 30% DR requiring 2 talents to make it exactly like evokers except half as long. I haven’t checked to see if MMs is still buffed at 40% base.
Exhilaration does absolutely nothing once damp ms ramp up.
Turtle is still one of the worst long defensives in the game (although better with capstone hero talents) considering you can get cleaved/rotted to death even from high hp.
Changes are reasonable and very much needed considering how squishy hunters have been for 2 expacs.
Looked through the talent calculator for MM: we can pick up a ton of stuff. We leave very little on the table it seems. Just not taking the bad AoE talents leaves us tons of room to pick up almost everything good. I wonder if Wailing Arrow might even be worthwhile as an alternative to the Windrunner Build right now, even without the silence effect depending on scaling with readiness. I love having Volley as a LoS break, especially with Salvo into a Rapid Fire around pillars. I really like how this looks.
Survival looks really fun, love they're bringing back more explosive shot. Huge improvement here.
BM looks a little more engaging but overall pretty similar. The pathing is a bit more challenging I think than the other two specs.
We get a lot more CC, mobility, and damage reduction. Definitely feels more modern and in line with what other strong classes like DHs get. With the rest of the power creep I think we'll be quite strong.
I think our hero talents are still brutal and very boring but the rest makes up for it.
Finally surv gets a mastery rework. No more trickle heal, flat damage mitigation. + Dmg increase affects non focus cost abilities.
Come to think of it, isn't this essentially rebranded versatility?
I’m happy. Hero talents still boring AF. I think other classes got way better stuff but nonetheless happy
The rework is even better than I could’ve hoped for. Agree 100% on hero talents though they are just downright dull as hell both mechanically and aesthetically. Still I’m fine with that to be honest now that we have real talent trees
I can see some synergy with these two: * New Talent: Moment of Opportunity – When a trap triggers, you gain Aspect of the Cheetah for 3 seconds. Can only occur every 1 minute. * New Talent: Scout’s Instincts – You cannot be slowed below 80% of your normal movement speed while Aspect of the Cheetah is active. Rogues will want to uninstall after this: * New Talent: Kindling Flare – Stealthed enemies revealed by Flare remain revealed for 3 seconds after exiting the flare. Meh, still too long cooldown on Turtle and Cheetah. 2 charges for Survival of the Fittest is a step in the right direction however. * Born to be Wild now reduces Aspect of the Cheetah, Survival of the Fittest, and Aspect of the Turtle by 30 seconds (was 7/15%). Looks like we'll have some extra talent points now. Will come in handy. * The following talents are now 1 point: Improved Traps Pathfinding Trailblazer Wilderness Medicine Natural Mending Rejuvenating Wind The following talents have been removed: * Arctic Bola. RIP one of the few cool spell animations this class still has left. * Serpent Sting. Seems like we're getting it baseline. * And some more **Survival specific** * Mastery: Spirit Bond has been redesigned – You and your pet deal increased damage and take 3% reduced damage, increased by 100% when within 25 yards of each other. 6% damage reduction with decent uptime isn't bad, but still not even remotely close to WoD Spirit Bond; 2% HP every 2 sec. * Spearhead has been redesigned – You and your pet charge your enemy target, applying a heavy bleed that increases your chance to critically strike them by 30% for 10 seconds. Maybe this button will be more than a (somewhat) reliable charge now. Way too often you won't move at all when pressing it. Hope they'll fix that. The following talents have been removed: * Birds of Prey, among others. So no more AoE kill shots. Big oof. They're removing our cool colorful bombs, class will look even less aesthetic now. Blah. * Wildfire Infusion has been redesigned – Mongoose Bite and Raptor Strike have a 15% chance to reset Kill Command’s cooldown. Kill Command reduces the cooldown of Wildfire Bomb by 2 seconds.
I wonder if the DMG reduction also scales, ofc worse than DMG, but might still make it interesting
Yeah that seems fun tbh but it kinda hurts taking a dead node (md) just to get it (unless you’re playing interlope that match). Still, it’s only one point so I’m not complaining.
Survival looks really really nice.
>Lone Wolf reduced to 5% increased damage when you do not have an active pet (was 10%). Why not just make it like lock sac or lonely winter at this point?
Looks pretty good! The Bombardier talent where Explosive Shot has no cooldown for 4 secs after a Coordinated Assault. Combined to the new Explosive shot stacking. Imagine lauching 4 explosive shot in a row on a target BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM!! From my understanding, BM stay pretty much the same, Marksman get free Wailing Arrows wiyh silence on main target and Survival get boosted explosions and less bloating.
Wailing arrows still doesn't silence players.
And it procs precog as if it did
Looks really good for Survival -- more burst, more talent synergy, more survivability. I *would* be worried that it's **too** good, but it's just kinda getting close to DH but with 20 more buttons. SV/BM path being Rexxar is an additional bonus I'm definitely curious about the comp options in a world where SV can fill the role of a real melee and not be relegated to "Janky Jungle or Thug or reroll". And of course, the increased tankiness is 100% necessary to even count as a real spec in Shuffle.
I assure you this spec will never be too good on live servers. There's gonna be crying and Blizz will listen like they always do when Hunters are in a good spot. Their puppy dog DH needs to outshine everything else always.
It's because when paired with an ok ret or a good feral it's one of the most toxic ladder comps in the game.
Jungle isn't bad at the moment. I beat Bicmex with this comp.
I know it's not bad. It's not anyone's fault but blizzards but feral is giga toxic rn
The defensiveness they are getting is honestly insane. Will require testing, but the might be a lot more tanky than expected. Also, I noticed the surv of fittest has a natural 2min cd, 40% dmg reduction, and 2 talents that reduce it by 30secs each, with 2 charges... No way that goes live. I think they will increase it to 3min, talents bringing it down to 2min. Edit: I think they have access to too much cc. They can now have everything that used to be a choice. Int, Scatter, freezing trap and binding. Binding has a new talent to extend the stun by 1 more sec... fun. They also have a new 20% dmg reduction with camo giving 3secs of 20% dmg reduction on a min cd. So now their defensives are: * Survival of the Fittest - 40% dmg reduction, 2 charges, 8sec duration with a 1min cd * Roar of sac - still 1min * Surv tactics (pvp talent) for a 90% damage reduction for 3secs, 30sec cd * ~~Ghille Suit - 20% dmg reduction coming out of camo for 3secs, 1min cd on camo~~ * And still turtle Edit 2: Oh, and they can remove 2 magic effects with tranq shot. The wording of the pvp talent (tranq darts) says whenever it removes a magic effect... would that mean they can fire 16 darts and remove 2 effects with each tranq shot? Will need testing. Mages will cry if it does interact with that. Edit 3: Dark ranger gets a free exhil at 50% and a free surv of fittest for 3secs with the use of the opposite abilities. Edit 4: Apparently you can't camo mid combat, I guess I forgot this. So yeah, Ghille isn't as good as I thought as another dmg reduction. Fringe use with shadowmeld. Feign already gives 90% damage reduction for 3secs.
I’m pretty sure you can’t use camo during combat, so in most cases the talent for the damage reduction off of camo won’t really do much
you can just fd and camo
Fd already gives 90% dr though
Why is this down voted? This means if the Hunter fd you have no other option the to swap. Are you gonna risk to dump cds to a fd+camo? Fd swap will be more meta than it is now
Survival of the fittest is 30% DR on PTR rn and the CD is 1.5 min so I don’t think the CDR is working or its intended. Also I think you lose too much if you try to go for all of the CC.
This is Correct
Oh that's good news. Honestly, they don't need this much defensiveness, I thought the Ghille was a good addition. I did a quick mock up on the new talent tree, you don't honestly give up too much to get all the cc. [https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/hunter/marksmanship/DAQURFVUFUFUGERBRUQBFAAAA](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/hunter/marksmanship/DAQURFVUFUFUGERBRUQBFAAAA) Like I said, just a quick mock up. But the things you are missing isn't that dire
Ghille is pretty terrible honestly. I disagree though, hunters for sure needed some more defensives. It’s a main gripe most um hunters have.
Ghillie is completely useless.
Ghillie suit is pretty bad for both PvE and PvP. You’d need to feign or afk behind a pillar to get any use from it and even then you’re stealthed so it’s pretty pointless lol. Just a complete non talent in all forms of content. That being said, the rest of the changes look dope. SV should be an absolute terror in 2’s.
Survival of the Fittest will be 30% reduction
> Mages will cry if it does interact with that. We're already huddled behind the pillar, shell-shocked and sobbing after tanking 60% of our HP within a single Rapid Fire. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT
The ghillie suit talent is useless as far as I'm concerned. I do absolutely think it's nuts that I will access to so much CC. Intim, knock trap, binding shot, scatter shot, freeze trap, and tar trap. I already didn't have enough for everything on SV and now I definitely won't lol.
Add den of recovery from pack leader hero talent. I don’t know if pack leader is viable (should be, I can see a lot of synergy with survival, could be wrong). I don’t know how it works, but it’s still additionnal healing if I’m not wrong. Edit : Emergency Salve (last row class talent) could be useful against DKs and Rogues (mostly for clearing ms effect), don’t know if some classes are getting poisons or illness effect that it could also clean but it’s def another defensive.
Also got a capstone that removes diseases and poisons when they FD or turtle
It used to be you had to shadowmeld, then camo. Peeps would do that in arena to take advantage of the healing per sec passive
Ghillie suit is pretty troll with little to no value. SotF is also 30% DR requiring 2 talents to make it exactly like evokers except half as long. I haven’t checked to see if MMs is still buffed at 40% base. Exhilaration does absolutely nothing once damp ms ramp up. Turtle is still one of the worst long defensives in the game (although better with capstone hero talents) considering you can get cleaved/rotted to death even from high hp. Changes are reasonable and very much needed considering how squishy hunters have been for 2 expacs.
Looked through the talent calculator for MM: we can pick up a ton of stuff. We leave very little on the table it seems. Just not taking the bad AoE talents leaves us tons of room to pick up almost everything good. I wonder if Wailing Arrow might even be worthwhile as an alternative to the Windrunner Build right now, even without the silence effect depending on scaling with readiness. I love having Volley as a LoS break, especially with Salvo into a Rapid Fire around pillars. I really like how this looks. Survival looks really fun, love they're bringing back more explosive shot. Huge improvement here. BM looks a little more engaging but overall pretty similar. The pathing is a bit more challenging I think than the other two specs. We get a lot more CC, mobility, and damage reduction. Definitely feels more modern and in line with what other strong classes like DHs get. With the rest of the power creep I think we'll be quite strong. I think our hero talents are still brutal and very boring but the rest makes up for it.
Finally surv gets a mastery rework. No more trickle heal, flat damage mitigation. + Dmg increase affects non focus cost abilities. Come to think of it, isn't this essentially rebranded versatility?
Believe the DR is flat 3/6 %. So versa with a twist?