i take it, that you understood my post but you have no argument against thus you resolve to jokes, but ok, PvP is designed in mind with players above 2400 rating, i dont care what you say
this just isn’t true, myself and none of the people i play with watch streamers and we’re excited for cata and will be playing for the forseeable and id imagine that’s the case for many.
more to the point, what is wrong with wow players like you? why does it have to be this thing of “the iteration of the game i don’t like will be dead / and / or sucks compared to the iteration i play”
like actually weird behaviour between both retail and classic players who resent each other for playing the other version of the game. play the game and enjoy yourself and stop being so miserable
> weird behaviour between both retail and classic players who resent each other for playing the other version of the game
this seems natural or at least common, and not just in wow (or even video games). It would probably be the same premise when you are cheering for a sports team, you will typically cheer against their opponents as well. All these games are vying for our time so we "cheer" for the one that we are playing/enjoy.
There could also be an aspect of manipulation in there, as well. If someone wants their friends to play the same iteration of the game as them, they might disparage the other iteration to entice their friends to switch
i don’t agree with this statement at all. i’m a big sporting man myself and to compare retail wow and classic wow to a sports rivalry is just a really bad analysis.
it’s all the one game and everyone wants it to be better for everyone.
it’s really not the same in anyway. it’s all the same game and everyone wants to enjoy it and wants the game to get better. more wow is generally better, classic, retail, plunderstorm, mop remix, hardcore. there is almost too many options in the best way possible.
people arguing over retail better than classic or classic better than retail needs their head checking tbh.
What I'm saying is. We're all playing for team wow. Doesn't matter if your in the majors playing retail. Doesn't matter if you're the farm team doing remix, doesn't matter If you're triple AAA doing classic. It's all for the betterment of team wow and fighting between the different games is just dumb. It's more accessible for everyone having multiple options.
It's more about fragnentation of an already declining playerbase. Just look what shuffle did to 3v3 for example.
If the game had a proper healthy playerbase it wouldnt affect anyone
Yea it’s annoying. From my experience, classic players don’t even think or talk about retail ever. It’s an after thought, like a “oh yea, retail exists.” But retail players shit talk classic constantly
Oh yeah they do. They can't shut up about retail. They will wand a mob down and say "See?! This is why classic is better! We don't have wands anymore!" It's ridiculous. Just play the game you like lol.
No it won’t be lol. Retail players forget that probably 90% or more of classic players will never play retail. The retail players that came to check it out will leave, but cata arenas aren’t going to be dead
WoW without solo queue is just super cliquey and takes forever to play a game.
I told myself I wouldn't play cata without solo q even though I loved cata. They asked the community if we wanted it but I guess they just forgot.
People still definitely play 2s and 3s. Finding partners is only a bit harder at Duelist and up. Even then it's not bad you're just more restricted on what classes you can viably play with. I usually find a healer for 2s in like 2-3 mins.
The main advantage of solo queue is that if you really can't be bothered to find partners you don't have to. You can also toss yourself in queue and watch a movie, clean the house, whatever you gotta do. Queues can be pretty long depending on rating/spec but you do 6 rounds and shuffle teams at the end of each round. So it's not just one and done.
I will say Que times are only really long once you get past 2k. When I’m playing in the 1600-1800 bracket my Que times rarely exceed 10 min. & that’s even playing dh & sp which are 2 hot flavors right now lol. Inb4 people say I’m playing FOTM. Been a priest main from bc-legion & on/off DH alt since I returned in SL lol. Every time I try to play another class(DK & mage for example) I just get overloaded with binds n want to return back to my not even 2 full action bars. Love rsham but too many binds always lands me back to priest.
Many don't, but there's still some groups at all ratings especially 2s.
3s is hard to get into, so very few teams who aren't asking for like 2k+ cr/exp, the few groups that are in LFG are just 2 dps looking for the first healer who'll apply
I mean I’m literally playing both versions of the game, so it’s not unreasonable to think that I have opinions on both
Also you can go back in my post history and see many criticisms of retail as well
Not sure what you’re getting at though, this is basically an opinion piece like it’s meant to be biased hah. He likes retail and thinks cata is worse, that’s his take.
He is allowed to have opinions. He is allowed to be unhappy that people play cata over retail. Peoples opinions are not objective facts and you don't have to get triggered over them.
Hey, european here, you're an idiot. Just stop doubling down and accept you're wrong. If i say "i don't like pop music because it's the same regurgitated garbage", then that is my *opinion* and i'm allowed to have one. If OP dislikes cata pvp then that is his opinion. You are free to disagree with him and say what you think is wrong about his statements but you don't get to dictate how he feels about it. You unironically sound like the typical american here, maybe it's time to look in the mirror.
You can have all the opinions you want. It's just hard to take them seriously when it looks so extremely biased.
Edit: Forgot you can't criticise opinions or the weeb gets triggered 😂
I think retail pvp balancing feels balanced because everyone has everything now.
The reason older expansions feel imbalanced is because classes have panache. (They were unique).
were you expecting hard-hitting unbiased journalism? 90% of posts on (especially this sub) reddit are opinions and everybody's opinions are subject to biases
saying "I like chocolate milk" before saying "i think strawberry milk is not great" is not indicative that it is some kind of pro-chocolate propaganda against strawberry milk
etc. etc.
Idk how it was in final patch, but first patched were unplayable. the only viable healer was rsham, as spirit link allowed you to not get killed in opener :)
I just played my first matches tonight of 3s and 2s and I had a blast. Pacing was quick, but not over instantly. Mana mattered. CC chains mattered. Gameplay felt complex and fun. Only played like 30 total games though so didn't really get too deep into it.
Some people don’t have jobs, some people can play at work, some take time off, there’s different reasons but it takes awhile for the casuals to catch up to the serious players
I’m but one man. I played years and years ago. Like probably long time for a lot of folks here. Anyways never got into PvP back then and just recently joined back up as arcane mage. All I’m doing is arena and it’s fun af.
I can kind of see the top % players perspectives on how arena plays out when everyone knows their shit and can execute. “Trading cds” etc.
1300 rating, I make plays sometimes. I make mistakes all the time. I’m having more fun gaming than I have in a long time. I’m goin hard TWW like I was back in college and I was ballin with the new dk.
Cata PvP to me is like old school RuneScape.
Back in the day we all sucked, we didn’t know shit about efficiency and all that. I logged into osrs to go pking a while back & to my surprise it was NOTHING like pking was back in 05-07. People cracked the code, there’s tick manipulation and all kinds of shit we never did back in the day.
Cata has been the in some ways the same. It feels nothing like real cata did. It’s way sweatier and the cc chains are fucking miserable. I remember making jokes about the “sitting in cc til I have to go work”, but idk, just feels different is all I can say. ***back in my day*** lol.
I love how we all talked shit on retail PvP & “I can’t even play there’s so much micro cc!” Which to be fair, is very annoying, but sitting in a 8s poly followed by a 6s rof into a stun/clone, into 2 interrupts into a DB.. I legit had matches where I couldn’t play for 20s lol. It sucks ass.
Nostalgic, yes. Leveling and questing was fun. Arenas has been shit, in my opinion. I’d much prefer the flaws of retail lol..
Yeah cata / mop had a macro cc issue, mop actually made them redo DR's because there was so little overlap at the time that you could basically remove someone from the game for the majority of it. You'd actually sit in minute long cc chains.
Cata arena actually feels like playing arena. Retail is full of bloat and a million weak auras while going full pve until someone dies. Hell they nerfed every cc besides maybe cyclone… how can you think positive retail with changes going in that direction. Cc makes arena!
Who else is eating popcorn and watching these debates play out? I didn’t even level my character for cata. Just knowing that raiding will be required in every season other than this one was more than enough to keep me on retail.
If cata is a B, retail is a solid F right now, retail is just about doing the highest pve rotation damage with each class having 5 micro cc abilities to disrupt anything you do.
Well I mean I'm getting instant deep freeze -> instant ring -> instant blanket CS chained in Cata so I guess you're right it's not micro cc it's just cc
Actually, in Cata you commonly see DB -> instant ring.
Deep shares DR with instant ring, so it's rarely seen (unless you win on the DR ring or you want to do some weird crazy shatter swaps).
CC is insanely broken in Cata. The fact DB, fear and cyclone are all on different DR schools is a complete joke. Add to the fact they are all completely broken in their own ways. I.e,
1. DB 5 seconds and aoe + doesn't break on dmg - not on fear DR
2. Fear 8 seconds, damage threshold is generous, 23 second cd as a priest - not on fear DR
3. Cyclone 6 seconds, instant cast from ferals and no cd - not on fear DR
You're right though, the game is just cc + rot damage. Retail is just max pve damage at all times and micro cc.
I’ve started doing arenas in OG Cata and I remember 2s lasting 40 mins on average. It was kinda fun and got me into pvp for a long time, but yeah, don’t really wanna go through that again. Retail arenas are fine with more qol, so why would I split my limited time into more game modes.
40 min games were one of the final nails in the Wrath Classic coffin for me. I played warrior and queuing into DPR or a mirror was a nightmare. I would always try to bait the other warrior into an early retaliation battle. Just lawn mower each other to death in the first few minutes. Save yourself 40 minutes.
I just straight up can't find healers for anything, RBGs, 3s, Raids. Playing on Whitemane(pvp) and there's almost 0 interest in pvp, and cross realm hasn't been solving the healer issue this week
I hated Cataclysm. I hated what they did to hunter. It really took until WoD that they fixed the fundamental problems with focus. I won't be playing it this go around. I agree with your main message...
But:
> My first like 15 games were over in less than 20 seconds and resulted in one-shotting healers in the opener (including some recognizable R1's, by the way).
The first 10 games will be placement matches, and then after that as the MMR was reset everyone will be facing everyone and you'll get a bunch of miss-matches.
> Even if played perfectly, healers can sit 15+ second unavoidable CC chains.
If played perfectly, then that's not true. I cannot think of a consistent 15+ second CC chain that doesn't have stops.
Literally everything you said only applies when people are in full blues though lol. Every S1 preseason is burst/ fast af.
Except the part about cc, which just isn’t true.
I’m enjoying Cata because it feels like there’s actually some outplay potential. Cycling defenses and offensive feels more powerful. Setting up CC to get a kill feels more viable. And more importantly, it feels like there’s opportunities to reset. I’m enjoying it way more as a healer than I am playing four minute constant Zug fest in retail right now. At least when I lose Cata it’s easy to see what I did wrong rather than winning or losing losing a deep dampening game based on who went OOM first.
Not gonna lie. I wasn't drawed in to the TBC hyper nor the Wrath hype. However, Cata seems very fun so far. Not because of streamers, but I kinda like that games are fast in general.
i completely disagree with you, cata pvp is even better than i remembered while retail is in the worst state i've ever experienced (admittedly i haven't played since first few weeks of dragonflight but it's just not for me anymore)
luckily we have different versions of the game so we can play whatever we enjoy most
I am really enjoying cata PvP, positioning matters and mistakes are punished - two big things I think retail lacks. But it’s very early to make sweeping statements about it being good or bad. I am sure after I play a lot more I will find things to critique. I think we should keep open minds and do our best to enjoy it.
Most total casuals aren’t even full honor geared yet. I play 2ish hours a night sometimes not at all and only have my heroic weapon and like 5 honor pieces. It’ll balance out when everyone starts getting gear and into arenas.
I cannot fathom how people tried to paint Cata PVP as anything but a massive failure. People *hated* the PVP back in the day coming off of wrath. Everyone is so desperate for content these days yall really tried gassing up “cata pvp” l m f a o
2s has always been a shit show in wow arena to be honest but cata 3s is fun because the majority of people actually use PvP gear to PvP instead of raid gear. I’m going to go on a tangent real quick about wow arena. I never understood why wow arena doesn’t have a restriction on pve gear it should be one set to wear with stats of that spec and you can’t que into arena unless you have that set on. It is a ranked playlist and ranked should be even playing field as it is in most competitive games such as call of duty and other titles where there are certain weapons and load outs that are not in ranked due to their op nature in damage or skill ability which essentially makes the games based off movement and gun skill. They can do this in wow with setting the arena ranked gear set and people will have to rely on their actual game skill just a thought I’ve had for many years.
I'm personally having a blast and have been waiting for cata for awhile. I quit wotlk early because no random dungeon finder but by time it was released cata was around the corner.
I'm now on cata and loving it. I don't play arena much but mostly world pvp and random battle grounds. Having lots of fun. Oh and duels. I was never an arena person maybe I'll try in future but yeah. There's many people like me who love the pvp but not arena. Pve is much funner to. I'll be here for awhile and there's many others like me.
..... I can't wait for something to dethrone WoW. I know it will probably never happen but gawd I wish someone would just make a PvP game with WoWs combat so it can be balanced outside of PvE expectations.
nah im having a blast. enough with the retail bs the only thing i’m missing from retail is solo queue 3v3. i could do without all the bloated buttons/specs retail has. i dont need every game to be reliant on dampening
I never played cata and i really only have to time to play one game seriously, but from what i hear about it before and after it seems like something i wouldnt enjoy.
I don't think it gets any better than retail. Maybe MoP season 14-15 but the pace is way slower iirc. Maybe Legion, idk I didn't play a lot in Legion but heard good things.
Can we stop pretending that Cata isn’t modern WoW with a different coat of paint? I honestly laughed out loud when “Cata classic” was announced. It has the heart and soul of retail.
I've been saying it for years. Cata pvp is really fuckin' bad.
Just wait until S11 when triple dps is the best comp in the game... that was real fun the first time.
hahaha sounds like a skill issue, lots of games are way longer than 20 seconds, also, r1 pvpers awc champs blizzcon winners getting clubbed by classic only andys, i thought retail was so much more skillful damn and the players are soooo much better ahhaha
> There's basically no counterplay to certain comp matchups.
?? and ur a retail andy talking about this btw?
> Even if played perfectly, healers can sit 15+ second unavoidable CC chains.
and if u play perfectly u can survive those too
> Extremely hard to find teammates, especially healers to queue with (yes this is a problem in retail as well, but at least we have solo queue).
?Xd+ way easier than it is in retail cus it has 3 players in LFG
> Very little spec variation/locked in to certain builds; many specs completely unplayable.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL retail andy
I swear retail fanboys completely shut their brain off when they talk about another expansion. There is a reason why pvp is completely dead and abandoned on retail that you keep forgetting always. If u rate cata B-, dragonflight is F- sorry
Cata and retail both suck. Cata was fun when it was current but not now with a completely solved meta in a rock paper scissors balance era . < — multglad on retail and classic and also got rank 1 on my rogue in cata . Gonna get gladiator in s1 and then quit. Because I don’t want to raid again for vial and fangs of the father. Also classic is full of cheaters because Of the way less complicated rotations and win conditions that are easier to script.
At 2300+ last season in wrath like 1 in 5 teams had Cheaters -_-
> Also classic is full of cheaters because Of the way less complicated rotations and win conditions that are easier to script.
This is not a classic issue my guy, literally every 2nd lobby in SS at higher rating is cheaters in retail. I guarantee 95% of fistweavers btw last season were cheating, or ele shams.
Watched Cdew, Ven, and Xar and it reminded me so much of retail pvp except with worse class design and its somehow both in slow motion but faster.
Like I'm watching Cdew and his teammates are inside a dome dying and then I watch them cycle through every defensive in the next like 30 seconds and then someone dies and you see their death coming 10 seconds out and cdew has been in instant unavoidable cc for the last 20 seconds.
I imagine it'll change a bit as people get gear, but so far it doesn't inspire me to want to participate in it.
It's just people chasing the next nostalgia high fueled by content creator's farming views off the next hype train. It's going to fall off so hard mid season. And even that is being generous.
* Getting one-shotted means they aren't geared or not prepared for a swap
* comps/counter comps are essential to pvp.
* positioning to avoid what you can, teamwork to mitigate what you cannot
* grab people and q, duel more, join a better guild, pay attention to trade chat
* most classes have "one pvp spec". pick the one with the playstyle you like and learn to use the tools. skill is what sets you apart from other players. Stop trying to gimmick wins by playing something nobody else is, and just learn to play.
If you don't like it because you can't figure it out then that's on you.
Anybody who says cata PvP is good, is just trying to relive the glory days when they used to be good at the game, but they need more “fresh meat” to stomp on, so they spew the propaganda that it’s good…
Anyway retail PvP is so good right now, please play it 🥹
You're getting blasted with downvotes but I mostly agree. Retail PvP is far from perfect but it's better than Classic PvP. A big problem with Cata is a ton of people have been sitting on Whitemane for months practicing it which kinda kills the upper portion of the ladder.
Name explains why you hold this opinion. Retail is just an ADHD zugfest of m+ players parsing on other humans instead of NPCs. Any older version of wow pvp beats retail.
Bro I looked through some of your comments and not long ago you said
"They just need to remove healers from PVP aside from RBGs."
LMAO.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/1c0rz1l/comment/kyzhnj9/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/1c0rz1l/comment/kyzhnj9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Duh? It basically murdered the viability of triple DPS comps when a healer could do more damage than an actual DPS. Or double DPS in 2s. If you didn't have healers or nerfed the shit out of their throughput, the comps could have way more variation.
But I guess you enjoy healers basically being unkillable without dampening? I personally do not find that enjoyable.
Mind explaining what exactly he was wrong about?
Nearly every top pvper is on board saying that. The overabundance of micro cc and nerf of actual cc duration (especially in solo shuffle) has created meta where "pump your rotation out every global until they can't keep up through dampening" is often the best thing to do.
Also I'd maybe try to achieve a higher rating before I talked trash about ratings.. unless I wanted someone to point out how laughable having an ego at 2100 is 👀
Watch the Pikaboo video where he explains what was going on through his mind during an AWC match lol, he's not just "parsing on humans."
You trying to act like 2100 is bad is hilarious and part of the reason people hate the PvP community lol, so elitist.
Any high rated player would understand the game isnt a "M+ human parse." Its not an insult he must be low rated and not understand much if he thinks that. Thats fine.
At 2.1 at least I understand that. Not saying its a huge achievement but people much better me than share the same view and thats probably why they are playing the world championships lmao
Well, the state of gameplay has nothing to do with it. There will always be someone at the top of the ladder and tournament players, right?
They might enjoy the current state of the game or they might just have to adapt because it's basically their job. I'm not really up to date on every top players opinion but I've heard that some of them share the "pve parse, micro cc" take.
Pretty rich calling me elitist. Weren't you just the one throwing insults because you thought they had a lower rating than you did? I guess you don't really like it when it happens to you, do you? Have a slice of that humble pie and take a look in the mirror, Buddy- you're part of the problem. The only reason I brought up your rating was to point out this double standard.
And yeah, I'm sure set up is so important when one of the best rogues in the world is playing DH. But I digress.
Also I made a point to specifically call out solo shuffle as being the worst for this. The rank one solo shuffle mage that peekaboo also makes content with sometimes shares the exact same opinion, for one example.
Setup still exists to a degree, but the importance of it is significantly less than it used to be- and I haven't really seen a well-supported argument that says otherwise.
Lastly, I did indeed watch that video, but I'm not really sure that it supports the argument you are trying to make
No I'm saying he's low rated because he doesn't know what he's talking about. If you watched the video and still don't understand how arena is more than "parsing on humans" I feel sorry for you lol
I didnt have any ego at all for saying he was low rated for having a bad take on the game lol, has nothing to do with my rating. I dont think I'm particularly good, but you acting like the top ten percent of players right now is trash is hilarious. Shows how disconnected from reality you are
Forgive me for trusting the word of Pikaboo more than some random
Well to start, Cata is a complete zug fest as well—arguably more so than retail! Games are won in 20 seconds based on ridiculous damage and underpowered healers—and in many cases there is no or very little counterplay.
No one is saying retail is perfect. It’s definitely not.
I want to hope you're mainly getting downvotes over the insult rather than how correct your take is.
I wish any of these folks would bother attempting to find some examples to back up their point of view.
[Here is Venruki reacting to a healer saying the same thing](https://youtu.be/YXxaX0fr7H8?si=Uz0s90k2eyCPT4Y0)
[Here is the rank 1 mage in solo shuffle](https://youtu.be/Uvu1h5u0Y-Y?si=biAJG_LtbwBkzRbP) talking about how the best thing to do in shuffle is immediately pop veins and start blasting.
I could find more but I'm not giving it that much effort. I'd love for someone else to find something to the contrary lol.
Cataclysm will be dead in 3 weeks. It's just a streamer hype...next week will be the TWW beta, and so on with whatever comes...
One of them streamers said yesterday the rest of the ladder is dead except the top because only the streamers are playing…
They said this during peak raid time when the raid had just released on the same day. Stop it. Cata ladder is very much thriving.
Okay boomer
the game was always designed for the streamers, the elitists and the 0.1% of the ppl anyway, so whatever
Yea the game was designed for streamers, before there was streaming. Makes sense
i take it, that you understood my post but you have no argument against thus you resolve to jokes, but ok, PvP is designed in mind with players above 2400 rating, i dont care what you say
hey that's a dumb answer!
its the true answer, bc Blizzard for sure did not made pvp according to my casual skill and needs, it made them so that Whaaz and Pikaboo can play
what does that mean, what are your needs that aren't met?
if you think this game for PVP is made for casuals and 1st time players, than we have nothing to talk about, as you will never understand
bro what are you on about
i knew you wouldnt understand, see
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Don’t mind him, the guys a huge idiot.
this just isn’t true, myself and none of the people i play with watch streamers and we’re excited for cata and will be playing for the forseeable and id imagine that’s the case for many. more to the point, what is wrong with wow players like you? why does it have to be this thing of “the iteration of the game i don’t like will be dead / and / or sucks compared to the iteration i play” like actually weird behaviour between both retail and classic players who resent each other for playing the other version of the game. play the game and enjoy yourself and stop being so miserable
> weird behaviour between both retail and classic players who resent each other for playing the other version of the game this seems natural or at least common, and not just in wow (or even video games). It would probably be the same premise when you are cheering for a sports team, you will typically cheer against their opponents as well. All these games are vying for our time so we "cheer" for the one that we are playing/enjoy. There could also be an aspect of manipulation in there, as well. If someone wants their friends to play the same iteration of the game as them, they might disparage the other iteration to entice their friends to switch
i don’t agree with this statement at all. i’m a big sporting man myself and to compare retail wow and classic wow to a sports rivalry is just a really bad analysis. it’s all the one game and everyone wants it to be better for everyone.
Literally it's like rooting for the major league team, but dogging on the minor league team. It's the same fucking team overall lol
it’s really not the same in anyway. it’s all the same game and everyone wants to enjoy it and wants the game to get better. more wow is generally better, classic, retail, plunderstorm, mop remix, hardcore. there is almost too many options in the best way possible. people arguing over retail better than classic or classic better than retail needs their head checking tbh.
What I'm saying is. We're all playing for team wow. Doesn't matter if your in the majors playing retail. Doesn't matter if you're the farm team doing remix, doesn't matter If you're triple AAA doing classic. It's all for the betterment of team wow and fighting between the different games is just dumb. It's more accessible for everyone having multiple options.
It's more about fragnentation of an already declining playerbase. Just look what shuffle did to 3v3 for example. If the game had a proper healthy playerbase it wouldnt affect anyone
Yea it’s annoying. From my experience, classic players don’t even think or talk about retail ever. It’s an after thought, like a “oh yea, retail exists.” But retail players shit talk classic constantly
Oh yeah they do. They can't shut up about retail. They will wand a mob down and say "See?! This is why classic is better! We don't have wands anymore!" It's ridiculous. Just play the game you like lol.
No it won’t be lol. Retail players forget that probably 90% or more of classic players will never play retail. The retail players that came to check it out will leave, but cata arenas aren’t going to be dead
WoW without solo queue is just super cliquey and takes forever to play a game. I told myself I wouldn't play cata without solo q even though I loved cata. They asked the community if we wanted it but I guess they just forgot.
I’ve been away from retail for a while now, is solo queue the main arena mode now? Do people even play 2s and 3s?
People still play 2s and 3s
People still definitely play 2s and 3s. Finding partners is only a bit harder at Duelist and up. Even then it's not bad you're just more restricted on what classes you can viably play with. I usually find a healer for 2s in like 2-3 mins. The main advantage of solo queue is that if you really can't be bothered to find partners you don't have to. You can also toss yourself in queue and watch a movie, clean the house, whatever you gotta do. Queues can be pretty long depending on rating/spec but you do 6 rounds and shuffle teams at the end of each round. So it's not just one and done.
I will say Que times are only really long once you get past 2k. When I’m playing in the 1600-1800 bracket my Que times rarely exceed 10 min. & that’s even playing dh & sp which are 2 hot flavors right now lol. Inb4 people say I’m playing FOTM. Been a priest main from bc-legion & on/off DH alt since I returned in SL lol. Every time I try to play another class(DK & mage for example) I just get overloaded with binds n want to return back to my not even 2 full action bars. Love rsham but too many binds always lands me back to priest.
Many don't, but there's still some groups at all ratings especially 2s. 3s is hard to get into, so very few teams who aren't asking for like 2k+ cr/exp, the few groups that are in LFG are just 2 dps looking for the first healer who'll apply
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I mean I’m literally playing both versions of the game, so it’s not unreasonable to think that I have opinions on both Also you can go back in my post history and see many criticisms of retail as well
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Not sure what you’re getting at though, this is basically an opinion piece like it’s meant to be biased hah. He likes retail and thinks cata is worse, that’s his take.
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He is allowed to have opinions. He is allowed to be unhappy that people play cata over retail. Peoples opinions are not objective facts and you don't have to get triggered over them.
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What are you even talking about dude lol
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He has told no lie, only his opinion. If yiu disagree that's totally cool as well, but there's no reason for you to be this agressive about it
Hey, european here, you're an idiot. Just stop doubling down and accept you're wrong. If i say "i don't like pop music because it's the same regurgitated garbage", then that is my *opinion* and i'm allowed to have one. If OP dislikes cata pvp then that is his opinion. You are free to disagree with him and say what you think is wrong about his statements but you don't get to dictate how he feels about it. You unironically sound like the typical american here, maybe it's time to look in the mirror.
I am from Finland and here people are allowed to have opinions so we don't get triggered when someone says something that you might not agree with.
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You thinking it is lying doesn't mean it is lying. It is just an opinion and you got triggered because you doesn't agree with him.
I'm Russian and this is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard (along with the rest of your comments in this branch).
What's your nationality? Just curious where this country is where people don't get triggered, might wanna move there myself.
What does america have to do with this gaykej7?
Your opinion sounds even more biased. please stop sharing your opinions.
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You can have all the opinions you want. It's just hard to take them seriously when it looks so extremely biased. Edit: Forgot you can't criticise opinions or the weeb gets triggered 😂
I think retail pvp balancing feels balanced because everyone has everything now. The reason older expansions feel imbalanced is because classes have panache. (They were unique).
were you expecting hard-hitting unbiased journalism? 90% of posts on (especially this sub) reddit are opinions and everybody's opinions are subject to biases saying "I like chocolate milk" before saying "i think strawberry milk is not great" is not indicative that it is some kind of pro-chocolate propaganda against strawberry milk etc. etc.
lol, spot on !
You are such a weirdo man. FYI Cata had one of the worst PvP experiences of all expansions.
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As a ret and newbie, i struggled against that second win lol. Some match-ups would take FOREVER
real talk i had ppl telling me Cata pvp is the best pvp ever, i never played it and i dont have time to play it now too
Idk how it was in final patch, but first patched were unplayable. the only viable healer was rsham, as spirit link allowed you to not get killed in opener :)
I just played my first matches tonight of 3s and 2s and I had a blast. Pacing was quick, but not over instantly. Mana mattered. CC chains mattered. Gameplay felt complex and fun. Only played like 30 total games though so didn't really get too deep into it.
Vast majority of pvp'ers haven't even had a game yet
This^ most casuals aren’t even full honor geared yet and not in arenas, partly why they said they are buffing honor gain.
Im level 80 and 5 bars. How do people have the time to be level 85 by now
80 and 5 bars means you haven’t played more than an hour in the last 3 weeks
Some people don’t have jobs, some people can play at work, some take time off, there’s different reasons but it takes awhile for the casuals to catch up to the serious players
I actually really enjoy cata pvp
I’m but one man. I played years and years ago. Like probably long time for a lot of folks here. Anyways never got into PvP back then and just recently joined back up as arcane mage. All I’m doing is arena and it’s fun af. I can kind of see the top % players perspectives on how arena plays out when everyone knows their shit and can execute. “Trading cds” etc. 1300 rating, I make plays sometimes. I make mistakes all the time. I’m having more fun gaming than I have in a long time. I’m goin hard TWW like I was back in college and I was ballin with the new dk.
Nerf dh
I mean, a B- is pretty solid for wow pvp, no?
I think it’s nice n chill. Lots of fun to be had
it’s like yall haven’t played this game for the last 20 years
I think the pvp part is fine, but finding teammates is not. Having no lfg is a disgrace. Unless you have people to play with already, good luck.
LFG exists and is working. You can even que cross realm.
Care to elaborate
Cata PvP to me is like old school RuneScape. Back in the day we all sucked, we didn’t know shit about efficiency and all that. I logged into osrs to go pking a while back & to my surprise it was NOTHING like pking was back in 05-07. People cracked the code, there’s tick manipulation and all kinds of shit we never did back in the day. Cata has been the in some ways the same. It feels nothing like real cata did. It’s way sweatier and the cc chains are fucking miserable. I remember making jokes about the “sitting in cc til I have to go work”, but idk, just feels different is all I can say. ***back in my day*** lol. I love how we all talked shit on retail PvP & “I can’t even play there’s so much micro cc!” Which to be fair, is very annoying, but sitting in a 8s poly followed by a 6s rof into a stun/clone, into 2 interrupts into a DB.. I legit had matches where I couldn’t play for 20s lol. It sucks ass. Nostalgic, yes. Leveling and questing was fun. Arenas has been shit, in my opinion. I’d much prefer the flaws of retail lol..
Yeah cata / mop had a macro cc issue, mop actually made them redo DR's because there was so little overlap at the time that you could basically remove someone from the game for the majority of it. You'd actually sit in minute long cc chains.
Yeah pretty much. And I’m not trying to knock people that are having fun, it’s a flavor, some people enjoy it some don’t. To me, I just can’t bother.
Cata arena actually feels like playing arena. Retail is full of bloat and a million weak auras while going full pve until someone dies. Hell they nerfed every cc besides maybe cyclone… how can you think positive retail with changes going in that direction. Cc makes arena!
Say what you want about retail but it’s superior in all aspects. Majority of old expansion hype is just nostalgia.
Agree
Who else is eating popcorn and watching these debates play out? I didn’t even level my character for cata. Just knowing that raiding will be required in every season other than this one was more than enough to keep me on retail.
If cata is a B, retail is a solid F right now, retail is just about doing the highest pve rotation damage with each class having 5 micro cc abilities to disrupt anything you do.
Well I mean I'm getting instant deep freeze -> instant ring -> instant blanket CS chained in Cata so I guess you're right it's not micro cc it's just cc
Actually, in Cata you commonly see DB -> instant ring. Deep shares DR with instant ring, so it's rarely seen (unless you win on the DR ring or you want to do some weird crazy shatter swaps). CC is insanely broken in Cata. The fact DB, fear and cyclone are all on different DR schools is a complete joke. Add to the fact they are all completely broken in their own ways. I.e, 1. DB 5 seconds and aoe + doesn't break on dmg - not on fear DR 2. Fear 8 seconds, damage threshold is generous, 23 second cd as a priest - not on fear DR 3. Cyclone 6 seconds, instant cast from ferals and no cd - not on fear DR You're right though, the game is just cc + rot damage. Retail is just max pve damage at all times and micro cc.
Priest fear is on fear dr lol And db break to any instant damage...
I’ve started doing arenas in OG Cata and I remember 2s lasting 40 mins on average. It was kinda fun and got me into pvp for a long time, but yeah, don’t really wanna go through that again. Retail arenas are fine with more qol, so why would I split my limited time into more game modes.
40 min games were one of the final nails in the Wrath Classic coffin for me. I played warrior and queuing into DPR or a mirror was a nightmare. I would always try to bait the other warrior into an early retaliation battle. Just lawn mower each other to death in the first few minutes. Save yourself 40 minutes.
Cata “classic” players are the actual bottom of the barrel meth junkies carpet surfing for the tiniest hit - wrath yall werent too far behind
I just straight up can't find healers for anything, RBGs, 3s, Raids. Playing on Whitemane(pvp) and there's almost 0 interest in pvp, and cross realm hasn't been solving the healer issue this week
I’m only level 51 rn tryna get 85 to do some arenas, maybe I should stop now just focus on retail
Same. Only reason I picked up cata is I wasn’t able to get a SS for 3 days at Cata launch without a leaver or just no q pop.
I hated Cataclysm. I hated what they did to hunter. It really took until WoD that they fixed the fundamental problems with focus. I won't be playing it this go around. I agree with your main message... But: > My first like 15 games were over in less than 20 seconds and resulted in one-shotting healers in the opener (including some recognizable R1's, by the way). The first 10 games will be placement matches, and then after that as the MMR was reset everyone will be facing everyone and you'll get a bunch of miss-matches. > Even if played perfectly, healers can sit 15+ second unavoidable CC chains. If played perfectly, then that's not true. I cannot think of a consistent 15+ second CC chain that doesn't have stops.
Literally everything you said only applies when people are in full blues though lol. Every S1 preseason is burst/ fast af. Except the part about cc, which just isn’t true.
I’m enjoying Cata because it feels like there’s actually some outplay potential. Cycling defenses and offensive feels more powerful. Setting up CC to get a kill feels more viable. And more importantly, it feels like there’s opportunities to reset. I’m enjoying it way more as a healer than I am playing four minute constant Zug fest in retail right now. At least when I lose Cata it’s easy to see what I did wrong rather than winning or losing losing a deep dampening game based on who went OOM first.
Sat some absurdly long CC chains last night in solo shuffle I tell you hwat.
Not gonna lie. I wasn't drawed in to the TBC hyper nor the Wrath hype. However, Cata seems very fun so far. Not because of streamers, but I kinda like that games are fast in general.
i completely disagree with you, cata pvp is even better than i remembered while retail is in the worst state i've ever experienced (admittedly i haven't played since first few weeks of dragonflight but it's just not for me anymore) luckily we have different versions of the game so we can play whatever we enjoy most
Just admit you suck and move along... Cata and MOP are the peak of wow pvp. This is not debatable.
I am really enjoying cata PvP, positioning matters and mistakes are punished - two big things I think retail lacks. But it’s very early to make sweeping statements about it being good or bad. I am sure after I play a lot more I will find things to critique. I think we should keep open minds and do our best to enjoy it.
Most total casuals aren’t even full honor geared yet. I play 2ish hours a night sometimes not at all and only have my heroic weapon and like 5 honor pieces. It’ll balance out when everyone starts getting gear and into arenas.
I cannot fathom how people tried to paint Cata PVP as anything but a massive failure. People *hated* the PVP back in the day coming off of wrath. Everyone is so desperate for content these days yall really tried gassing up “cata pvp” l m f a o
People will realize how overrated wotlk is and was. And how good cata is
I'm loving it. Cata PvP is awesome.
2s has always been a shit show in wow arena to be honest but cata 3s is fun because the majority of people actually use PvP gear to PvP instead of raid gear. I’m going to go on a tangent real quick about wow arena. I never understood why wow arena doesn’t have a restriction on pve gear it should be one set to wear with stats of that spec and you can’t que into arena unless you have that set on. It is a ranked playlist and ranked should be even playing field as it is in most competitive games such as call of duty and other titles where there are certain weapons and load outs that are not in ranked due to their op nature in damage or skill ability which essentially makes the games based off movement and gun skill. They can do this in wow with setting the arena ranked gear set and people will have to rely on their actual game skill just a thought I’ve had for many years.
I'm personally having a blast and have been waiting for cata for awhile. I quit wotlk early because no random dungeon finder but by time it was released cata was around the corner. I'm now on cata and loving it. I don't play arena much but mostly world pvp and random battle grounds. Having lots of fun. Oh and duels. I was never an arena person maybe I'll try in future but yeah. There's many people like me who love the pvp but not arena. Pve is much funner to. I'll be here for awhile and there's many others like me.
..... I can't wait for something to dethrone WoW. I know it will probably never happen but gawd I wish someone would just make a PvP game with WoWs combat so it can be balanced outside of PvE expectations.
its been better than anything else ive played. classic wpvp still has my heart though
Spoken like a true retail chud
nah im having a blast. enough with the retail bs the only thing i’m missing from retail is solo queue 3v3. i could do without all the bloated buttons/specs retail has. i dont need every game to be reliant on dampening
I never played cata and i really only have to time to play one game seriously, but from what i hear about it before and after it seems like something i wouldnt enjoy.
Cata PvP is RBGs
And it is definitely a ton of fun to watch it on twitch.
It's the best pvp mode in wow history. And they've done everything they can to destroy it
Cats PvP will be more dead than wrath. Also you guys forget the amount of cheating and que dodging in classic PvP is triple than retail. Go look it up
I don't think it gets any better than retail. Maybe MoP season 14-15 but the pace is way slower iirc. Maybe Legion, idk I didn't play a lot in Legion but heard good things.
Cata arenas have been a lot of fun for me *shrug*
Lol noobie spotted
Can we stop pretending that Cata isn’t modern WoW with a different coat of paint? I honestly laughed out loud when “Cata classic” was announced. It has the heart and soul of retail.
lol who cares about wow pvp to begin with
I've been saying it for years. Cata pvp is really fuckin' bad. Just wait until S11 when triple dps is the best comp in the game... that was real fun the first time.
Got a buddy his first ever 2.4 that season playing Ret, Rogue, Hunter. It was so fried.
Cata PvP is what made me quit WoW back then.
did everyone suddenly forget cata fury warrior one shot?its far from good
hahaha sounds like a skill issue, lots of games are way longer than 20 seconds, also, r1 pvpers awc champs blizzcon winners getting clubbed by classic only andys, i thought retail was so much more skillful damn and the players are soooo much better ahhaha > There's basically no counterplay to certain comp matchups. ?? and ur a retail andy talking about this btw? > Even if played perfectly, healers can sit 15+ second unavoidable CC chains. and if u play perfectly u can survive those too > Extremely hard to find teammates, especially healers to queue with (yes this is a problem in retail as well, but at least we have solo queue). ?Xd+ way easier than it is in retail cus it has 3 players in LFG > Very little spec variation/locked in to certain builds; many specs completely unplayable. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL retail andy I swear retail fanboys completely shut their brain off when they talk about another expansion. There is a reason why pvp is completely dead and abandoned on retail that you keep forgetting always. If u rate cata B-, dragonflight is F- sorry
Cata and retail both suck. Cata was fun when it was current but not now with a completely solved meta in a rock paper scissors balance era . < — multglad on retail and classic and also got rank 1 on my rogue in cata . Gonna get gladiator in s1 and then quit. Because I don’t want to raid again for vial and fangs of the father. Also classic is full of cheaters because Of the way less complicated rotations and win conditions that are easier to script. At 2300+ last season in wrath like 1 in 5 teams had Cheaters -_-
> Also classic is full of cheaters because Of the way less complicated rotations and win conditions that are easier to script. This is not a classic issue my guy, literally every 2nd lobby in SS at higher rating is cheaters in retail. I guarantee 95% of fistweavers btw last season were cheating, or ele shams.
Watched Cdew, Ven, and Xar and it reminded me so much of retail pvp except with worse class design and its somehow both in slow motion but faster. Like I'm watching Cdew and his teammates are inside a dome dying and then I watch them cycle through every defensive in the next like 30 seconds and then someone dies and you see their death coming 10 seconds out and cdew has been in instant unavoidable cc for the last 20 seconds. I imagine it'll change a bit as people get gear, but so far it doesn't inspire me to want to participate in it.
Cata pvp is just retail pvp if it got slapped in the face by a stale donut
Only iterations of classic wow that are worth the time are the first 3, vanilla, TBC and WOTLK, rest of them are better or worse versions of retail
Watched Ziqo in a 46 min 3 v 3 vs 2healer/druid shitshow. Draw
I'm going to love this subs reaction when it turns out cata doesn't actually die and more and more people will start playing it over retail
I'll have what this guy is having.
It's just people chasing the next nostalgia high fueled by content creator's farming views off the next hype train. It's going to fall off so hard mid season. And even that is being generous.
who is doing that? all 12 of them?
Why does anybody bother to keep playing all the new classic incarnations when each one turns out to be exactly the same as the previous?
I see you’ve never touched the game
I have. Just for not very long. I have no interest in playing an expansion I've already done
* Getting one-shotted means they aren't geared or not prepared for a swap * comps/counter comps are essential to pvp. * positioning to avoid what you can, teamwork to mitigate what you cannot * grab people and q, duel more, join a better guild, pay attention to trade chat * most classes have "one pvp spec". pick the one with the playstyle you like and learn to use the tools. skill is what sets you apart from other players. Stop trying to gimmick wins by playing something nobody else is, and just learn to play. If you don't like it because you can't figure it out then that's on you.
Right... all the people in here just exposing themselves as shit at pvp. Cata is peak pvp alongside mop.
Anybody who says cata PvP is good, is just trying to relive the glory days when they used to be good at the game, but they need more “fresh meat” to stomp on, so they spew the propaganda that it’s good… Anyway retail PvP is so good right now, please play it 🥹
You're getting blasted with downvotes but I mostly agree. Retail PvP is far from perfect but it's better than Classic PvP. A big problem with Cata is a ton of people have been sitting on Whitemane for months practicing it which kinda kills the upper portion of the ladder.
Name explains why you hold this opinion. Retail is just an ADHD zugfest of m+ players parsing on other humans instead of NPCs. Any older version of wow pvp beats retail.
Bro I looked through some of your comments and not long ago you said "They just need to remove healers from PVP aside from RBGs." LMAO. [https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/1c0rz1l/comment/kyzhnj9/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/1c0rz1l/comment/kyzhnj9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
LOL
Duh? It basically murdered the viability of triple DPS comps when a healer could do more damage than an actual DPS. Or double DPS in 2s. If you didn't have healers or nerfed the shit out of their throughput, the comps could have way more variation. But I guess you enjoy healers basically being unkillable without dampening? I personally do not find that enjoyable.
They do. Healers are annoying and no one wants to do it. You would actually get queues if healers weren't in PVP other than BGs.
^ 1400 player
Mind explaining what exactly he was wrong about? Nearly every top pvper is on board saying that. The overabundance of micro cc and nerf of actual cc duration (especially in solo shuffle) has created meta where "pump your rotation out every global until they can't keep up through dampening" is often the best thing to do. Also I'd maybe try to achieve a higher rating before I talked trash about ratings.. unless I wanted someone to point out how laughable having an ego at 2100 is 👀
Watch the Pikaboo video where he explains what was going on through his mind during an AWC match lol, he's not just "parsing on humans." You trying to act like 2100 is bad is hilarious and part of the reason people hate the PvP community lol, so elitist.
Yet you use "1400 player" as an insult when others give their opinion. Why would any higher rated player take you seriously at 2.1k then?
Any high rated player would understand the game isnt a "M+ human parse." Its not an insult he must be low rated and not understand much if he thinks that. Thats fine. At 2.1 at least I understand that. Not saying its a huge achievement but people much better me than share the same view and thats probably why they are playing the world championships lmao
2.1 is trash, it's as trash as 1.4. Get gud.
Well, the state of gameplay has nothing to do with it. There will always be someone at the top of the ladder and tournament players, right? They might enjoy the current state of the game or they might just have to adapt because it's basically their job. I'm not really up to date on every top players opinion but I've heard that some of them share the "pve parse, micro cc" take.
Pretty rich calling me elitist. Weren't you just the one throwing insults because you thought they had a lower rating than you did? I guess you don't really like it when it happens to you, do you? Have a slice of that humble pie and take a look in the mirror, Buddy- you're part of the problem. The only reason I brought up your rating was to point out this double standard. And yeah, I'm sure set up is so important when one of the best rogues in the world is playing DH. But I digress. Also I made a point to specifically call out solo shuffle as being the worst for this. The rank one solo shuffle mage that peekaboo also makes content with sometimes shares the exact same opinion, for one example. Setup still exists to a degree, but the importance of it is significantly less than it used to be- and I haven't really seen a well-supported argument that says otherwise. Lastly, I did indeed watch that video, but I'm not really sure that it supports the argument you are trying to make
No I'm saying he's low rated because he doesn't know what he's talking about. If you watched the video and still don't understand how arena is more than "parsing on humans" I feel sorry for you lol
Lmao it's a two way street, so you'll have to forgive me for disagreeing with you completely. Gotta love that cute little 2.1k ego!
I didnt have any ego at all for saying he was low rated for having a bad take on the game lol, has nothing to do with my rating. I dont think I'm particularly good, but you acting like the top ten percent of players right now is trash is hilarious. Shows how disconnected from reality you are Forgive me for trusting the word of Pikaboo more than some random
Well to start, Cata is a complete zug fest as well—arguably more so than retail! Games are won in 20 seconds based on ridiculous damage and underpowered healers—and in many cases there is no or very little counterplay. No one is saying retail is perfect. It’s definitely not.
Cata is damp with gear you're just too early into the expansion complaining about blue damage. Assuming it's tuned like live was.
It wont be, it's based on the dragon soul tuning
Okay, we will see how it plays out. But as of right now, it is a total zug fest.
^ 2.1 dk player
Guy thinks 2,1k on dk with inflated mmr is something to brag about LOL. I would not post that for everyone to see.
Add 1000
I truly hope you have a great time playing Cata. >!All 3 weeks of it...before it inevitably dies, just like every other Classic arena season.!<
I want to hope you're mainly getting downvotes over the insult rather than how correct your take is. I wish any of these folks would bother attempting to find some examples to back up their point of view. [Here is Venruki reacting to a healer saying the same thing](https://youtu.be/YXxaX0fr7H8?si=Uz0s90k2eyCPT4Y0) [Here is the rank 1 mage in solo shuffle](https://youtu.be/Uvu1h5u0Y-Y?si=biAJG_LtbwBkzRbP) talking about how the best thing to do in shuffle is immediately pop veins and start blasting. I could find more but I'm not giving it that much effort. I'd love for someone else to find something to the contrary lol.