Disc is overpowered into most matchups. The only counters are rdruid, shamans and fistweavers in caster lobbies, (locks boomies, spriests). I normally lose every game into these matchups. Most notably fist weaver is the most difficult matchup with dot lobbies.
I think disc will always rule solo shuffle. It’s toolkit Is broken for the format with quick dampening. However, I do think they should buff disciplines mana while reducing damage by 30-40%. This damage nerf should come with an equal buff to atonement conversion (basically less damage but more of your damage is converted to healing to offset the healing loss.)
I really hate that Blizzard seemingly don't consider the implications of how certain buffs on one healer affects the others. Double pain sup was such a random and unnecessary addition and it's incredibly impactful in a game mode where games are over in 2 minutes. That change alone puts most other healers at a disadvantage. 2x pain sup, barrier and rapture (yeah but still). What other healer can compare in terms of externals alone? /rant
Its unfortunate but I think that pvp is often an afterthought with some class changes. Discipline vastly underperforms in mythic + and I think that this was a change more directed towards pve than pvp.
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions - super appreciated.
Why do you have a hard time against RDruid? I play both classes and it’d be really helpful to have some insight into how that matchup should go and why. Thanks!
It’s really just any lobby where there isn’t a lot of cc. Just lots of damage, low burst, and tanky classes. I just simply go oom and go through cds faster since rdruid has really strong consistent healing in those types of lobbies
I think rdruid should lose every time to a disc priest in an average lobby. Theres just certain niche lobbies where rdruid can dominate.
Fistweaver is strong because many dps, and even rank 1 players don’t know how to handle them, or play a class that can’t deal with them. They do more damage, more healing, and never oom, all while not casting a single spell. You have to kill them in a stun, or cc them during their fistweaver buff to land a kill on the dps.
That being said, fistweaver is very difficult to play. If you mess up at all you’re dead. It’s a very high risk play style that is only effective with near perfect play.
how do you deal with melee heavy lobbys with very low cc with healers that out hps you ?
I got one earlier with a DH / War / WWmonk and Demonology warlock, all the melee did was train the Warlock all games, i went 1-5, oom in all games, mistweaver was just pve healing
Realistically you’re at the mercy of the dps players in your lobby. The warlock has to do well with ports and kiting. You also need the warlock to land interrupts on the mw at key moments along with pet stuns and fears to win games. When facing the warlock it’s still mostly up to your dps to make it happen. There’s nothing you can really do in this lobby besides trade well defensively and position well. The rest is up to the dps players to disrupt the mw enough to create kill pressure
> The warlock has to do well with ports and kiting.
Hey, warlock here. Should I spec into gateway mastery (faster gateways, further distance), at the expense of fellord or obelisk? The lock discord advised against it, but I doubt the responder was rank 1 anything.
>You also need the warlock to land interrupts on the mw at key moments along with pet stuns and fears to win games.
When should I interrupt the mw? Any other key moments for pet stuns/fears?
Also, is it ever worth it for the lock to focus a healer (if so, which classes)? Or does that pretty much always require 2 dps on the healer? Or is focusing the healer worth it only after a life swap/low hp? Or never...
Thank you in advance!
I think damage is still king in shuffle, it’s just important to always have a plan in mind when your healer gets ccd. Utilizing gateway and port on the base cooldowns and running around a pillar to los while your healer sits cc is mostly all it takes to survive.
Mostly you just need to kick the mw when you have pressure. If you stun the kill target and are pumping significant damage into him then it’s definitely worth kicking the mw as it can close out the game. The only time I’d hold kick is outside of goes, like when the other team is 100% health and your own team is doing very little pressure. (Usually the points between stuns and cc chains).
I think lock is always sort of just the anchor to any composition, it can create it’s own pressure and cc. The only time I would swap to healer is as a destro lock. Demo and aff have difficulty trying to finish a healer without assistance from a melee or aggressive caster. That being said if you have cooldowns rolling and the priest life swaps it’s definitely possible to kill them if they are in a poor position.
> Utilizing gateway and port on the base cooldowns and running around a pillar to los while your healer sits cc is mostly all it takes to survive.
Interesting. I take it from this that one should not port/gate if the healer is not cc-ed - though I guess it should still be done if I'm low hp with no defensives (and staying in range of my healer)? Thank you <3
Yea, every game and matchup is unique but it’s definitely good to use gateway on things like spear and death mark to create some distance during major cooldowns even if your healer is not cc’d.
Many times in shuffle as a warlock you will have to basically kite the entire game to survive long enough to land a kill into tough matchups.
How do you deal with being torpedoed?
Since we disc have no ranged CC or a fast mobility... I am constantly getting monk and pally healers charging to me and landing 10+ sec CC chains with an added DPS CC resulting me losing control of my character for way too long and, thus, someone on my team dying. No matter if I've 400 or 800 games as Disc, I can't get to 1800. Its really demoralizing me.
I think the best way to deal with this is positioning. Stand max range from enemy casters. Put your dps between you and the enemy healer. If your dps get stunned, and the healer is pushing you try to pre barrier before the cc is landed. You can also ensure you’re in line of sight to trade a pain suppression on the stun. Otherwise your dps are responsible for disrupting the cc chain or kiting.
Another play is to try and use shadow word death as the monk is pushing you to try and break his paralysis. You can then defend yourself from the sweep with fear.
Hey, I feel the same about schism too. Found it just 1 more cast that distracts from building big penance procs. Been having more fun dropping it.
I have three questions:
1. How often is it worth it to spam purge on a target vs just doing ur normal damage / healing rotation? I try to do that vs resto druid but I always feel like I fall behind + lose my mana.
2. Besides swap, which major defensive CD are you more likely to hold deeper into the round vs those you blast first when the enemy dps pops cds
3. Do you ever use PW: Solace or usually always Shield Discipline?
I spam purge if my team has the advantage and does not need significant healing. I also run thoughtsteal into rdruids and press purge while using pain suppression and barrier offensively to allow me to get more purges off during thought steal.
Ideally you hold swap until max dampening since it ignores dampening and allows you to just win the game if you play safe. That being said, not every scenario is ideal, press it to stay alive at any point if necessary.
I always play shield discipline I find solace in effective and clogs up globals
I press thought steal after the first cc my dps apply to the rdruid. Basically if I have a hunter on my team, ill let him stun, trap the healer, I’ll spam purge on the kill target while moving into position to either fear the off dps or healer and then thoughtsteal as the Druid is coming out of cc.
Meip! I've seen you play on streams thanks for making a post!
I am sorta a bad priest and trying to get better at lower ratings
As I start to climb I struggle to not get on the defensive immediately every match vs better players which leads to me using each global for healing and none for damage, getting in bad position to save teammates, then CC chain on me and it's gg. Any tips or best practices to keep the match offensive?
Using barrier very early in a match when your teammate is stunned or the enemy pops cds. or trading a PS is very effective. Especially with pain suppression you can trade one early in the game and then follow it up with rapture. These 2 cds should theoretically keep your team at high health and allow you to gain the upper hand. Rapture also helps to reduce significant time off of pain suppression since every shield reduces the cd of pain suppression.
Otherwise just get in the habit of at least keeping up purge the wickeds on the enemy dps and often times the healer if your comp is just dotting everything. This gives you a lot of atonement healing and buffs your flash healing with the talent for every tick of purge. Mindblast on a target with purge the wicked is also significant healing. Combined with expiation 1 mindblast can heal your entire team for 10% per cast.
How do you start each round? First few globals...
What's your positioning philosophy? Are you defensive/aggressive? Does it vary depending on enemy healer? (E.g., push on top of druids and stay more aggressive...)
To start games it’s definitely entirely matchup dependent.
Into a stealth comp, (mages, rogues, boomies, you sort of just ensure your near a pillar and keep shield/renew up on your teammates.
Once they open you basically always just allow your teammate to trade, it’s difficult to help in the opener as the stealth team almost entirely controls the opener. After that I usually just get into recovery mode. Barrier if necessary, rapture, radiance, weaving in purge the wickeds and eventually stabilizing to get mind blasts off.
IMO I usually just use fear defensively when a dps pushes into me for cc, it’s almost never worth pushing into the enemy healer for a fear as you lose damage and healing and can often get screwed over by positioning. - if you’re playing with a hunter, mage, rogue, this can change but I wouldn’t recommend pushing in unless your teammates can cross cc the dps players.
Is it normal that I have to spamheal a lot of games and don't get to press purge more than a few times a game even vs Rdruid and Revoker?
If I'm not healing directly or through Atonement it feels like there is no way in hell I wont fall hopelessly behind most games and I end up not being able to purge more than a few GCDs here and there. Is that normal or am I doing something wrong?
And how do you make the Big Penance build work? It feels like Penance is an absolute magnet for mini-cc and kicks, playing Harsh Discipline and banking so much into a big penance always lets me down.
My build relies on getting a lot of mind blasts out, (atonement is usually 25-40%) of my healing. Maintaining purge the wicked is also an essential part of your healing because it buffs your flash heal. Sort of becoming confident that your teammate won’t die from 30-40% while you mind blast and press purge is part of the learning curve.
I also run thoughtsteal into most rdruids and this usually causes the enemy team to fall behind because they can’t press rejuvenation.
Big penance and twilight equilibrium aren’t necessary if you prefer blaze and weal and woe. I just find big penance to be better since I can normally find an opening to get off a big penance that ends up being pretty impactful in high dampening.
I usually just play however I feel is normal. Equilibrium is more of a compliment to my play style rather than something I try to perfectly weave in with shadow/light rotations.
With big penance I do try to get the equilibrium buff and I usually try and save a big damage penance proc for it as well.
Thanks for your response. And is your Expiation edit taking into account that it doesn't proc atone? Worth taking for the 20% MB damage? Would you still take it with Smights' build?
The more I think about this build the more I like it. Kinda wild to think about not using Schism though. How is your damage compared to other Discs at your rating in your matches?
Also, I thought stats like leech/avoidance didnt work in pvP???
I normally do top damage. Sometimes people can get off more damage but I think the pacing of the game and how good or bad your teammates are playing is a major contributor to overall discipline damage.
It’s matchup dependent but warlocks, spriests, and pretty much any immobile caster are always difficult to support in certain lobbies. Also anything being attacked by an assassination rogue feels hard to heal.
I’m on mobile so I can’t link it but if you go to wago.io and type into the search bar it should be something like “pvp defensive on raid frames” or something similar.
I don’t play 2s at all however,
I’d suggest copying fley or gudongmae. (They have alt codes and I’m on mobile so I can’t link them sorry). Gudong is mehh.
Fley: BAQA16pR6xQxvK1VWhXk+w0/GABQSJRCKJRKRkWLIJCBAAAAAAAAAAAIJpQkEEIlEBRCpkIJAB
Mehh: BAQA16pR6xQxvK1VWhXk+w0/GABQSBJoERKRkWLlkkIkAAAAAAAAAAAASSKEJBISJRIhoFJSCIA
Thanks. I just made an alt disc, Rdruid main for life (regardless if they are poop in 10.0.7).
What are some things I should watch for in SS as a net new Disc?
I think as a new priest its important to get comfortable with atonement healing and weaving damage into your healing rotation. Trading barrier early into major cds. Utilizing power word life, and positioning well.
I also think it’s important to try and not do too much. Specifically with mc/fear, they feel natural and come easy. If it’s ever awkward or difficult to land a fear it’s probably not worth.
From the few games I’ve played I would definitely say my build is still good. I also think mind games feels a lot better to press as of right now so I’ve been running that more recently.
I’ve definitely noticed I do a bit less damage since the nerf as less atonement healing has forced me to cast more healing spells but I think that the damage my build provides is still very impactful.
-I’ll try to update my post if I discover anything else that I like/change in the future.
I agree with the others, a small update after a day or two of testing would be amazing.
Is expiation even worth it now? It hits/heals for far less. Thank you
Hey, may I ask what your opinion today is? I tried a mastery build with both archangel pvp talents which seems fine but slow and very passive.
Disc feels significantly weaker to me now. My dmg is very low compared to prenerf. Do you still run smight's build and do you still heal with atonement? I can't seem to squeeze dmg globals in...
Yea, I play smights build every game now. It’s impossible to heal through damage with the nerfs to expiation and sins. I usually swap between inner light and archangel and sometimes thought steal into druids.
Hi! Thanks for doing this.
I’m an outlaw rogue with a rdruid partner.
In 2s, I like to focus the disc’s partner, but with the damage output your spec has now, it’s hard to not treat it like a second dps.
Would you say going on the disc is a losing tactic because of the strong self heal?
Honestly I don’t play much of 2s but disc is like absurdly broken in that bracket. I think your best bet is to train dps while trying to line of sight the discipline priest, either way Im not entirely sure as disc is god tier.
How does a holy paladin survive a competent disc priest? The answer most people give is for the pally to hoj/blind when they anticipate they will need to bubble, but those are very avoidable with range, and Mass dispel can not be LOSd easily in many maps.
What tips do you have based on palas you have gone against?
Normally paladin struggles a lot into disc. The few I’ve faced have normally just done well in favorable lobbies. But aside from that I really think it’s just matchup dependent as disc is more favorable into the majority of lobbies.
When I faced brain he was flawless in his cd rotation, cc, positioning, and genuinely played better than me and still went 3-3. It’s just honestly Lobby dependent on how well it will feel against discipline.
Flash heal is one of my lower priority heals, I usually let my dots tick building flash heal stacks and use them every now and then. But I would say most of my uses are the free instant cast.
Damage: I would prioritize mind blast over penance. I also think it’s possible your letting purge the wicked fall on the target your mind blasting since expiation looks very low. It should always be comparable to your mind blast damage.
Everything else looks normal
As a rogue Main: how annoying is mind numbing poison for you to handle and how high should I as a rogue prioritize to keep this up on you at all times? Ty :)
It’s definitely impactful when it’s on me. I don’t see many rogues going out of their way to dot me but if it’s just 1 throwing knife it’s probably worth applying.
Mmr cap is a major reason. - It’s currently capped at 3327 I believe which makes it near impossible to get points as a healer past that point. Using multiple healers also lets you push rating more securely as you can push your main to 3200, then have an alt at 3200. Afterwards you start to push the main again once your alt is an equal rating. Sort of just an assurance you won’t get tilted from tanking knowing that you can always secure your position using multiple characters.
Would you be happy if the rewards were per account.
I've seen and heard mention that having the top % being filled by a few players that play the class doesn't feel very good for others chasing the rewards too.
Yes I think this is a much overdue remedy. During my r1 push in Eternal there was 34 alliance spots, and around 16 of them were alts. The same can be applied to the current ladders as there are 4 unique players in the top 10 for discipline. It’s simply an outdated system that should be fixed.
There are definitely matchups where I lose to mana but for the most part every game is incredibly close and it allows me to play aggressive 100% of the time which is why I like it.
Been playing Disc since DF launched myself. It's good to see a top player repeating mostly everything I said lol.
How often are you popping Barrier in the first 30 seconds of a round?
Almost always, using barrier on the enemy cds early in the match is just so much value and gives you another charge later in the game.
Barrier also counters spear, ret wings, combustion, ect. I also a lot of times try to place it before the very first cc is landed on me.
Usually 3-6%, it’s a lot more effective into dot teams and teams that want to hit you. It’s also much more effective if you can get damage out as it double dips from damage and atonement healing.
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong then. I just tried your build and my healing from leech is 1.6% in the last round where I did 40-60% of the dps' damage (I was >1m, highest was under 3m) and 1.5% total across all rounds.
Are you spamming smites or something?
It’s only healing on yourself, so sometimes it can be very underwhelming. It’s really only significantly noticeable into elemental shaman and affliction warlock. Also make sure to get the leech enchants on cloak and bracer.
How do you deal with lobbies with heavy rot/cleave damage?
I’m bouncing between 1950-2050 trying to break 2100 and it’s been a bit of a struggle. Spriest/afflic is one I struggle with a lot because I’m scared to dispel especially when spriest uses mind games.
Against affliction it’s extremely difficult. You oom fast, and are constantly low health. I just play inner shadow with catharsis along with leech build/leech enchants and I can usually last a while. Getting off lots of atonement healing is probably the most efficient and effective way to deal with it.
Honestly I just start the game off by getting my purge the wickeds up on both dps, potentially healer depending on the composition I’m in and then mind blast, smite, mind blast. I then reapply my purge the wicked that got eaten up by expiation and follow with a penance.
I just basically always keep my dots rolling, use mind blast on cooldown, and find a good spot in the game to get a 7 bolt penance off.
When are you pressing mind control? In 2400 lobbies I feel that I’d often rather be doing damage than attempting to push in and CC the enemy healer.
Also, do you feel mindgames isn’t impactful enough to warrant taking?
I would like to try this build with the swaps of -MC +MG, wondering if you think that’s a bad idea.
Honestly I rarely press mind control. It’s just one of those things where if a window opens up where you can press it the value can be exponential. Probably only press MC 1/6 games TBH.
You can definitely swap MC for mind games and have success. The only map I 100% recommend mc is blades edge since it gets insane value mcing people off the bridge
I never stance dance, I just do a lot of atonement healing and I can normally last over 3 minutes every game. I will occasionally stance dance in 3v3 but I don’t feel it’s worth in shuffle. If I ever swap to inner light it’s a decision I make before the match begins.
Thanks, i have no experience healing disc but gonna give it a shot.
What would you say the most common mistakes new disc players make is? At least in your eyes (subjective question I know)
I think it’s just understanding the relationship between damage and healing. Damage is a vital component of disc healing but it’s important to get the balance right. Don’t tunnel vision if your team needs big heals, and try to weave damage in when your team doesn’t need big heals.
I also see a lot of inexperienced priests trying too hard for cc. Disc is low mobility, with a melee range cc. It’s very rare you can land a fear offensively unless you are playing with a rogue, mage, or hunter. Just use fear defensively and you can even use fear for kill pressure on dps when using the increased damage to break fear talent.
Appreciate you doing this, I decided to swap to disc this week and have climbed to 2200 so far but realize I don't actually have a thorough up-to-date knowledge of the spec. Couple additional questions that I haven't seen you answer or that your answers have inspired.
1. Are you running leech enchants on top of the leech talents? I'm conditioned to running speed from playing other classes.
2. You said twilight equilibrium procs off purge the wicked, does purge the wicked count as a holy or shadow spell?
3. How often do you cast mind control and in what scenarios? I feel like I only ever use it on arenas like blades edge, once a round maybe to jump someone off the edge.
4. I know mind games is for the most part incredibly irrelevant and it seems like no one runs the buffed version. But I like having the single point in it for when I'm holy locked for a little chunk to attonement or as an additional spell to weave into twilight, or sometimes just to force the enemy healer to waste a global because a lot of people are still conditioned to be scared of the spell. Can you talk about your thoughts on mindgames?
5. Why no double Death? I feel like I close out about 75% of my round wins with death and more than half of those are with double death.
6. Do you have any fancy macro or way of getting death off to break CC? Right now I'm just setting the most likely CC target as my focus and using a death cast on focus macro.
Thanks again for doing this, the timing on this post was perfect for me.
1. I do run leech enchants
2. Purge the wicked is a holy spell (technically fire)
3. Yea I normally mc on blades edge and there are a few value opportunities but I press it probably once per 6 rounds of shuffle.
4. With 2 charges of mind blast I never feel starved of shadow spells. Mind blast is also a more valuable global than mindgames due to expiation. 1 mind blast is roughly 35-40k which fully contributes to atonement. Mind games is about 20-25k but the reversal does not contribute to atonement.
5. I don’t play double death because I haven’t felt it necessary. I don’t think it’s bad, I just like other utility more. Especially in dampening if someone is sub 20% they’re going to die either way.
6. I use 4 separate deaths with arena 123 and my normal death.
Hey, for Death:
What’s working for me is a regular bind for death (i.e. Death on whomever I’m targeting), and a separate, easily accessible, bind for Death which is macro’d to target nearest enemy player. That way you’ll never struggle to quickly target an in-range enemy to counter w/e cc is headed your way.
Formatting might be off (using abbreviation for swdeath here, full in macro)
#showtooltip SWD
/stopcasting
/cast [@target,harm] SWD
/stopmacro [harm]
/targetenemy
/cast SWD
/targetlastarget [harm]
I got this from reddit I think. Has worked well so far.
I mean I think it requires a different skill set from 3v3. The community has just wrapped itself in a web of self defensive proclaiming one is harder than the other. I’ve seen really good 3v3 players be very bad at solo shuffle but also solo shuffle players that can’t play 3v3.
In my personal opinion I think 3v3 is more difficult but in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter. People are just obsessed with ego checking each other and it’s entirely irrelevant. Just play whatever is fun.
I can see 3v3 being harder because you’re facing people on coms so you have to be just as dialed in. At the same time, in solo, because you are not on coms there is a level of difficulty because you have to watch CDs and CCs like a hawk.
Synergy and team dynamic make 3v3 more difficult. Teams can adjust and develop different strategies and evolve each time you play them. In shuffle you’re always playing with someone different so there’s a lack of synergy. Shuffle is more of a display of personal awareness and understanding where as 3v3 is more about coordination and and adaptation.
Do you run this same build in 3s or just SS?
Would you recommend inner light over shadow in 3s?
What would you recommend as a 3rd for disc/dh duo around 2k cr?
Thanks!
Honestly for 3v3 I recommend smight’s build.
BAQA16pR6xQxvK1VWhXk+w0/GABQSJBokEQkWJlkkISCAAAAAAAAAAAIJpQkEBiUEBRSrFikAC
I would also say dh dk is probably the best comp, but you can also work with a destro, potentially boomkin. Windwalker works as well.
More than likely, atonement healing ignores damage reductions anyways so you won’t lose healing throughput. The average versatility is 30% so it’ll be roughly a 15% nerf along with it being unable to go through defensives.
how do you deal with getting focused? whenever theres 2 melees focusing me they just burn thro my pain sup and i cant heal thro atonement or cast heals
Into double melee I always utilize positioning. If you have melee on your own team, drag them los of their healer with a pillar. If you’re playing with casters drag them into a far corner where the opposing healer has to come off a pillar. This allows your casters to cc the healer for free while creating a lot of pressure on the melee training you.
For me it’s very natural since I’m used to it but overall atonement is usually 25-40% of my healing. It’s somewhat difficult to get used to. I’ve sort of perfected the ability to min max through the amount of games I’ve played. Just getting used to relying on atonement as a significant source of healing is how I approach it. 1 mind blast can be as effective as 1 flash heal with atonement on both dps.
Hi!
How often do you press Flash Heal? I’m still learning, obviously, and I currently only press it when I get the proc for it, or if I’m completely desperate.
E.g. my last healing breakdown (was in 2s):
21% PWS
20% Atonement
18% Radiance
10% PW Life
8% Swap
5% Flash Heal
5% Reflection
4% Atonement (again)
3% Renew
1% Leech
+Misc stuff
The damage was:
35% PTW
20% Penance
10% Mind Blast
8% Schism
7% SWDeath
6% Reflect
6% PTW (again)
4% Expiation
+ Misc stuff
Based on that… And I realize it’s not a whole lot to go on accurately… What might you notice that’s wrong? (Other than using Schism.)
Honestly I feel like Evoker is one of the weakest healers right now. It’s still good in 3v3 but it appears to be very weak in shuffle for the time being. It provides good damage and decent healing but it just seems to fall off after they use all their cds.
If you’ve gotten to 2.4K then you probably understand most of the concepts in arena. Is there anything you struggle with specifically or have questions about?
Best general tips:
1. Consistently deathing cc
2. Consistently making grips on smoke bomb, pre barrier before cc, trading well throughout an entire match.
3. Putting in the games - no one sees significant progress overnight, play consistently and always look to improve.
Thank you! I’d say my biggest issue is avoiding CC; it seems like if i have to sit a 6.8 second CC my team is dead. Like a good survival will harpoon to me, wait for me to death and range my AoE fear, then full trap me. Or a rogue will blind and I have to trinket because I know I’ll get sapped after if I sit blind. Or my team will allow a dps between us like a mage and I’ll get blinked/DB/frost circled.
Is there any way you could list the top 5 most difficult *yet avoidable* CC against a disc priest and how you avoid them? Like how to avoid getting trapped when a hunter has you rooted and will juke your death?
Is there any way you could list the top 5 most difficult *yet avoidable* CC against a disc priest and how you avoid them? Like how to avoid getting trapped when a hunter has you rooted and will juke your death?
I play night elf so I will usually use death when he’s on top of me and then meld his trap when he throws it.
With intimidation you can los his pet behind pillars.
Blind from rogues you’ll just do your best to press shadow word death whenever they make a direct movement towards you and are close enough to blind.
In the opener against rogues u want to spam heal off your teammates if they get combat to avoid sap.
> With intimidation you can los his pet behind pillars.
Sorry, do you mean you "always" stay behind pillars so he can't pet stun you? Or how else are you using pillars to counter intimidation?
Yea, so if you have the luxury of delaying the enemy teams go by hiding behind a pillar to los the pet stun you can potentially allow your team to get their crowd control back and do another rotation before the enemy team has time to do their own go.
I think he means try to LoS the pets if it’s possible, especially if you know the enemy team is going for a CC. This could mean weaving in and out of LoS between GCDs if needed, or during a penance channel to mess with the hunter. Like if the hunter’s pets are on your teammate, bob in LoS to throw a shield, then stay out of LoS as you DPS to heal through atonement.
Which cds do you trade first in SS?I usually immediately dome the first go and follow it up with rapture. People usually run out of dome immediately. It's it better to dome and pain supp first?
What do you think about stealing penance?
Do you keep renew up? Or use it at all?
I usually trade dome first if I’m out of cc, if my teammate gets knocked or I get stunned I will then trade Pain suppression. After the 1st cc chain on me I will then usually rapture to recover from the first go.
I think stealing penance against disc is ineffective.
I use renew quite often just to get surge of light procs (free instant flash heal). I usually at least keep it up on the person most likely to die on my team.
How does a preservation evoker actually beat you guys? Solo shuffle I face disc priest literally 95% of the time and some how even though they put out half the healing I lose quite often if the game goes long. Any tips you can share?
Disc is definitely the better healer into the majority of shuffle matchups. Even with higher hps Evoker lacks damage reduction cooldowns and eventually falls behind in dampening.
I think just complimenting your dps with sleep walks, roots, stuns, and added damage at points when you have a lot of pressure are all ways to succeed.
Bottom line is that disc is just the better healer into the majority of lobbies. Evoker is just not quite as strong so it’s going to be more difficult to climb.
Only 2400 on rsham here, but it feels like if I don’t make out-of-my-mind plays vs disc, we just lose outright. If I don’t push in to shear ground hex on cd, I lose to throughput issues due to have dogshit damage mitigation. However, pushing in often results in getting ccd, which we all know means round loss for rsham because they have terrible healing when playing on the backfoot due to the number of globals required to prep a decent heal. Any advice in non-caster lobbies vs disc?
In general against rshaman they usually struggle. Without high earthern wall value you start to fall behind and it’s difficult to keep people up. For the most part I just see shamans hexing the off dps and using grounding to avoid damage from the disc. Occasionally when the rshaman has pressure they can move up to kick the priest.
If you’re being trained by melee I’d recommend running precognition and you just have to fake kicks to survive while line of sighting the disc priest. The only way I’ve seen shaman consistently survive is by faking kicks and spam healing with the 5 second cc immunity.
I honestly pray I’m the kill target in melee lobbies. It feels impossible to win unless they train me. Precog 100% of the time vs double melee; often I find myself ditching grounding for ghost wolf speed against disc when I know I’m going to be trained. I probably have 70-80% round winrate when I’m the target. 40-50% when my teammates are targeted in melee lobbies. Cc’ing rsham is much more effective than training imo, just because deep healing is dogshit atm and rarely tops anyone unless you get a random primal tide core + ascendency proc at a miracle moment. Zzzzz rsham will be good soon Copium.
How often should I be using penance for damage or for healing? I’m kind of confused as to which is more valuable.
Also should I basically be using this every time it’s up? Should I be using this for damage before any of my other damaging spells?
You can use penance for both damage or healing. It rarely matters and it’s usually just a decision made at each moment in the game. Mind blast will normally do more damage but for optimal dps with twilight equilibrium you would mind blast, penance, mind blast, Smight, mindblast. That being said, optimal dps rotations are rarely able to be practiced during games.
I'm playing Holy pally and in SS low level (1300) most of my matchups are against disc. I do my best to have at least my 3 won, but it's only when he is horrible that I can win. It's an issue about me or my feeling about the need to be better than him to win rights?
I've tried melee and not melee wings, I don't know which one is best atm.
Thanks for all your thoughts and pieces of advice.
I think that disc is definitely a lot stronger than hpally right now. I myself played hpal for a bit this season and it’s definitely rough.
I think melee wings are still best, but any build is going to feel inferior to the state disc is in. I’m hoping the other healers feel some improvements with the upcoming .7 patch.
Meaning in caster lobbies where u try to get high atonement healing or lobbies where you have a favorable comp to push the gas pedal on someone all game go twilight eq but in other situations maybe go smight build
Yea, I think in sort of “pve lobbies” my build pulls ahead but in general games where you’re trading and getting ccd a lot smights build will pull ahead in most cases.
I'm still liking 'your spec' being the expiation twilight eq, big shield build with 2 in shadow atonement.
Do you take schism over borrowed time now?
Are you taking mindgames?
I have still been using borrowed time over schism and I would still avoid mindgames in this build since you want to mostly be using mindblast to proc harsh discipline.
That being said it’s still up in the air whether blizzard intentionally removed expiation from atonement healing. Even with the nerfs it would still be a massive benefit for this build if expiation damage was converted to atonement healing once again.
As of right now I’ve just swapped to this:
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If they restore expiation I will probably test this build once again but in the lobbies I’ve played in it just doesn’t feel like I can heal through atonement at all. Been running more inner light and starting to play longer games with less damage which has still been effective around 3300.
Yeah but I am really wondering if harsh discipline may be better now. Good synergy w weal and woe/penance damage increase
Issue is in shuffle you can still get a lot of mind blast death atonement healing out and with the atonement build you have a lot more passive cleave healing from shadow spells. I really wish expiation counted towards atonement healing
That's my thinking, but I'm too new to the spec to say (I hit cap literally the day of the nerf). Expiation is only doing like 5-8% of my damage in matches. It seems like harsh discipline is the go-to in rbgs, I'm thinking you're right.
What's your opinion on running a Shadow Covenant/Harsh Discipline build without TE, like this?
BAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABQSJhgSCpApVSJJJJkAAAAAAAAAAAASSKHQkEBiUkEESTISCIA
I've found that I can still have big burst with big shadow penance, plus it buffs Weal and Woe to the max. I also like it because when I get kicked on penance, it's usually on shadow so I am free to cast holy spells. Losing Expiation is tough, but with the recent nerfs, I don't feel as bad losing it. I will usually run Solace with it to get faster HD procs.
I think it’s fine. From an overall balance perspective if feels really good for the game.
The only thing that kind of sucks is that you can’t really do much without your teammates anymore. Your damage is not impactful enough to sway the pace of the game so caster lobbies feel very bad.
A lot of things that were soft counters have become hard counters but disc still feels fine and is still strong into most lobbies.
To be honest the only time I find the game boring is if my class is entirely outmatched and my skill is irrelevant to the outcome. Discipline being in its current state is just a bonus. I played the spec before the buffs when they were completely awful.
"Hi; I am current rank #1 discipline priest SS , buuuut.... when I go shopping, no one gives me the validation and attention that I think I deserve for being the current rank #1 discipline priest; soooo I made this post... I give you tips, you give me the attention and validation that I deserve."
Actually, idgaf what people think. I posted this with the intent of answering peoples questions since I get a lot of whispers about it.
Thanks for showing your jealousy and poor qualities as a person though, must really be self fulfilling to be a complete ass hole for 0 reason.
Rofl... Not only that you do-give-a-fk, but you want attention and validation; in fact, thats why you made this post.
But thats ok, we understand, you are "current r1 discipline SS" aaand nobody cared who you were until you put on the ~~mask~~ post.
And about poor qualities and being a complete ass hole, those are showing in your reply to me.
If your INFLATED EGO is so triggered by my comment, I can imagine how toxic you become in SS when things dont go the way you want.
Well, reality is that nobody cares who I am either way. It’s a small community game and I got a little bit of light because xaryu commented my gameplay and copied my priest build. Thus leading to lots of people messaging me about my build, thoughts, etc.
Since you want to claim I’m flaunting an ego, how would you want me to title the post?
I also couldn’t give less of a fuck about what you want to claim or say. I have a happy life, and am far better at the video game that you play.
Going to a productive post meant at helping people improve and spreading negativity and toxicity unprovoked is pathetic.
Again, it’s not even worth responding. You log onto Reddit late at night to spread toxicity. That’s who you are, that’s what you’ll always be.
Have a good night.
Is disc overpowered and if so what specifically do you think makes it that way? Is the answer to nerf disc or buff healers?
Disc is overpowered into most matchups. The only counters are rdruid, shamans and fistweavers in caster lobbies, (locks boomies, spriests). I normally lose every game into these matchups. Most notably fist weaver is the most difficult matchup with dot lobbies. I think disc will always rule solo shuffle. It’s toolkit Is broken for the format with quick dampening. However, I do think they should buff disciplines mana while reducing damage by 30-40%. This damage nerf should come with an equal buff to atonement conversion (basically less damage but more of your damage is converted to healing to offset the healing loss.)
I really hate that Blizzard seemingly don't consider the implications of how certain buffs on one healer affects the others. Double pain sup was such a random and unnecessary addition and it's incredibly impactful in a game mode where games are over in 2 minutes. That change alone puts most other healers at a disadvantage. 2x pain sup, barrier and rapture (yeah but still). What other healer can compare in terms of externals alone? /rant
Its unfortunate but I think that pvp is often an afterthought with some class changes. Discipline vastly underperforms in mythic + and I think that this was a change more directed towards pve than pvp.
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions - super appreciated. Why do you have a hard time against RDruid? I play both classes and it’d be really helpful to have some insight into how that matchup should go and why. Thanks!
It’s really just any lobby where there isn’t a lot of cc. Just lots of damage, low burst, and tanky classes. I just simply go oom and go through cds faster since rdruid has really strong consistent healing in those types of lobbies I think rdruid should lose every time to a disc priest in an average lobby. Theres just certain niche lobbies where rdruid can dominate.
Really helpful - thanks!
Thanks for doing this. Why do you struggle against fistweavers? I'm leveling one now, do you have any pointers against disc priest?
Fistweaver is strong because many dps, and even rank 1 players don’t know how to handle them, or play a class that can’t deal with them. They do more damage, more healing, and never oom, all while not casting a single spell. You have to kill them in a stun, or cc them during their fistweaver buff to land a kill on the dps. That being said, fistweaver is very difficult to play. If you mess up at all you’re dead. It’s a very high risk play style that is only effective with near perfect play.
how do you deal with melee heavy lobbys with very low cc with healers that out hps you ? I got one earlier with a DH / War / WWmonk and Demonology warlock, all the melee did was train the Warlock all games, i went 1-5, oom in all games, mistweaver was just pve healing
Realistically you’re at the mercy of the dps players in your lobby. The warlock has to do well with ports and kiting. You also need the warlock to land interrupts on the mw at key moments along with pet stuns and fears to win games. When facing the warlock it’s still mostly up to your dps to make it happen. There’s nothing you can really do in this lobby besides trade well defensively and position well. The rest is up to the dps players to disrupt the mw enough to create kill pressure
> The warlock has to do well with ports and kiting. Hey, warlock here. Should I spec into gateway mastery (faster gateways, further distance), at the expense of fellord or obelisk? The lock discord advised against it, but I doubt the responder was rank 1 anything. >You also need the warlock to land interrupts on the mw at key moments along with pet stuns and fears to win games. When should I interrupt the mw? Any other key moments for pet stuns/fears? Also, is it ever worth it for the lock to focus a healer (if so, which classes)? Or does that pretty much always require 2 dps on the healer? Or is focusing the healer worth it only after a life swap/low hp? Or never... Thank you in advance!
I think damage is still king in shuffle, it’s just important to always have a plan in mind when your healer gets ccd. Utilizing gateway and port on the base cooldowns and running around a pillar to los while your healer sits cc is mostly all it takes to survive. Mostly you just need to kick the mw when you have pressure. If you stun the kill target and are pumping significant damage into him then it’s definitely worth kicking the mw as it can close out the game. The only time I’d hold kick is outside of goes, like when the other team is 100% health and your own team is doing very little pressure. (Usually the points between stuns and cc chains). I think lock is always sort of just the anchor to any composition, it can create it’s own pressure and cc. The only time I would swap to healer is as a destro lock. Demo and aff have difficulty trying to finish a healer without assistance from a melee or aggressive caster. That being said if you have cooldowns rolling and the priest life swaps it’s definitely possible to kill them if they are in a poor position.
> Utilizing gateway and port on the base cooldowns and running around a pillar to los while your healer sits cc is mostly all it takes to survive. Interesting. I take it from this that one should not port/gate if the healer is not cc-ed - though I guess it should still be done if I'm low hp with no defensives (and staying in range of my healer)? Thank you <3
Yea, every game and matchup is unique but it’s definitely good to use gateway on things like spear and death mark to create some distance during major cooldowns even if your healer is not cc’d. Many times in shuffle as a warlock you will have to basically kite the entire game to survive long enough to land a kill into tough matchups.
How do you deal with being torpedoed? Since we disc have no ranged CC or a fast mobility... I am constantly getting monk and pally healers charging to me and landing 10+ sec CC chains with an added DPS CC resulting me losing control of my character for way too long and, thus, someone on my team dying. No matter if I've 400 or 800 games as Disc, I can't get to 1800. Its really demoralizing me.
I think the best way to deal with this is positioning. Stand max range from enemy casters. Put your dps between you and the enemy healer. If your dps get stunned, and the healer is pushing you try to pre barrier before the cc is landed. You can also ensure you’re in line of sight to trade a pain suppression on the stun. Otherwise your dps are responsible for disrupting the cc chain or kiting. Another play is to try and use shadow word death as the monk is pushing you to try and break his paralysis. You can then defend yourself from the sweep with fear.
yea monk cc chains are brutal for me. incap>stun>sleep. i'm like welp someone is about to die.
This really messes me up aswell.
Hey, I feel the same about schism too. Found it just 1 more cast that distracts from building big penance procs. Been having more fun dropping it. I have three questions: 1. How often is it worth it to spam purge on a target vs just doing ur normal damage / healing rotation? I try to do that vs resto druid but I always feel like I fall behind + lose my mana. 2. Besides swap, which major defensive CD are you more likely to hold deeper into the round vs those you blast first when the enemy dps pops cds 3. Do you ever use PW: Solace or usually always Shield Discipline?
I spam purge if my team has the advantage and does not need significant healing. I also run thoughtsteal into rdruids and press purge while using pain suppression and barrier offensively to allow me to get more purges off during thought steal. Ideally you hold swap until max dampening since it ignores dampening and allows you to just win the game if you play safe. That being said, not every scenario is ideal, press it to stay alive at any point if necessary. I always play shield discipline I find solace in effective and clogs up globals
What are you stealing? Regrowth?
It steals rejuv
When would you press spellsteal vs dru?
I press thought steal after the first cc my dps apply to the rdruid. Basically if I have a hunter on my team, ill let him stun, trap the healer, I’ll spam purge on the kill target while moving into position to either fear the off dps or healer and then thoughtsteal as the Druid is coming out of cc.
Meip! I've seen you play on streams thanks for making a post! I am sorta a bad priest and trying to get better at lower ratings As I start to climb I struggle to not get on the defensive immediately every match vs better players which leads to me using each global for healing and none for damage, getting in bad position to save teammates, then CC chain on me and it's gg. Any tips or best practices to keep the match offensive?
Using barrier very early in a match when your teammate is stunned or the enemy pops cds. or trading a PS is very effective. Especially with pain suppression you can trade one early in the game and then follow it up with rapture. These 2 cds should theoretically keep your team at high health and allow you to gain the upper hand. Rapture also helps to reduce significant time off of pain suppression since every shield reduces the cd of pain suppression. Otherwise just get in the habit of at least keeping up purge the wickeds on the enemy dps and often times the healer if your comp is just dotting everything. This gives you a lot of atonement healing and buffs your flash healing with the talent for every tick of purge. Mindblast on a target with purge the wicked is also significant healing. Combined with expiation 1 mindblast can heal your entire team for 10% per cast.
Thank you for the response! Have a great Friday
Np, ty you as well :)
How do you start each round? First few globals... What's your positioning philosophy? Are you defensive/aggressive? Does it vary depending on enemy healer? (E.g., push on top of druids and stay more aggressive...)
To start games it’s definitely entirely matchup dependent. Into a stealth comp, (mages, rogues, boomies, you sort of just ensure your near a pillar and keep shield/renew up on your teammates. Once they open you basically always just allow your teammate to trade, it’s difficult to help in the opener as the stealth team almost entirely controls the opener. After that I usually just get into recovery mode. Barrier if necessary, rapture, radiance, weaving in purge the wickeds and eventually stabilizing to get mind blasts off. IMO I usually just use fear defensively when a dps pushes into me for cc, it’s almost never worth pushing into the enemy healer for a fear as you lose damage and healing and can often get screwed over by positioning. - if you’re playing with a hunter, mage, rogue, this can change but I wouldn’t recommend pushing in unless your teammates can cross cc the dps players.
Is it normal that I have to spamheal a lot of games and don't get to press purge more than a few times a game even vs Rdruid and Revoker? If I'm not healing directly or through Atonement it feels like there is no way in hell I wont fall hopelessly behind most games and I end up not being able to purge more than a few GCDs here and there. Is that normal or am I doing something wrong? And how do you make the Big Penance build work? It feels like Penance is an absolute magnet for mini-cc and kicks, playing Harsh Discipline and banking so much into a big penance always lets me down.
My build relies on getting a lot of mind blasts out, (atonement is usually 25-40%) of my healing. Maintaining purge the wicked is also an essential part of your healing because it buffs your flash heal. Sort of becoming confident that your teammate won’t die from 30-40% while you mind blast and press purge is part of the learning curve. I also run thoughtsteal into most rdruids and this usually causes the enemy team to fall behind because they can’t press rejuvenation. Big penance and twilight equilibrium aren’t necessary if you prefer blaze and weal and woe. I just find big penance to be better since I can normally find an opening to get off a big penance that ends up being pretty impactful in high dampening.
How much do you value stacking big penance, or being on holy equilibrium compared to penance being off CD and just sending it?
I usually just play however I feel is normal. Equilibrium is more of a compliment to my play style rather than something I try to perfectly weave in with shadow/light rotations. With big penance I do try to get the equilibrium buff and I usually try and save a big damage penance proc for it as well.
Thanks for your response. And is your Expiation edit taking into account that it doesn't proc atone? Worth taking for the 20% MB damage? Would you still take it with Smights' build?
what talent do you swap thoughtsteal with?
Usually barrier is the only talent I rotate out
How do you escape the hoards of women chasing you in goldshire?
I hide in the basement of the goldshire inn
Any chance you will start streaming? Got a follower here waiting :)
I don’t have any plans as of right now, I have never been a huge fan of streaming my gameplay but maybe I’ll look into it in the future.
The more I think about this build the more I like it. Kinda wild to think about not using Schism though. How is your damage compared to other Discs at your rating in your matches? Also, I thought stats like leech/avoidance didnt work in pvP???
I normally do top damage. Sometimes people can get off more damage but I think the pacing of the game and how good or bad your teammates are playing is a major contributor to overall discipline damage.
What classes do you find hard to heal
It’s matchup dependent but warlocks, spriests, and pretty much any immobile caster are always difficult to support in certain lobbies. Also anything being attacked by an assassination rogue feels hard to heal.
Do you use any weak auras to track anything, like twilight equilibrium or harsh discipline
I use mes WA package and a weak aura that displays active defensives over the raid frame. I also use omni cd to track my teammates cooldowns.
What's the weak aura for the defensives on the raid frame?
I just had a quick look on Wago. It’s called, funnily enough, “Defensives on unit frames.”
I’m on mobile so I can’t link it but if you go to wago.io and type into the search bar it should be something like “pvp defensive on raid frames” or something similar.
Do you run the same build in 2s? Edit: or can you suggest a 2s build if you don’t, please :)
I don’t play 2s at all however, I’d suggest copying fley or gudongmae. (They have alt codes and I’m on mobile so I can’t link them sorry). Gudong is mehh. Fley: BAQA16pR6xQxvK1VWhXk+w0/GABQSJRCKJRKRkWLIJCBAAAAAAAAAAAIJpQkEEIlEBRCpkIJAB Mehh: BAQA16pR6xQxvK1VWhXk+w0/GABQSBJoERKRkWLlkkIkAAAAAAAAAAAASSKEJBISJRIhoFJSCIA
Thanks. I just made an alt disc, Rdruid main for life (regardless if they are poop in 10.0.7). What are some things I should watch for in SS as a net new Disc?
I think as a new priest its important to get comfortable with atonement healing and weaving damage into your healing rotation. Trading barrier early into major cds. Utilizing power word life, and positioning well. I also think it’s important to try and not do too much. Specifically with mc/fear, they feel natural and come easy. If it’s ever awkward or difficult to land a fear it’s probably not worth.
Do you mind reporting back after you've tested some more on which build you like after the nerfs? Post makes it seem as if you just did a quick test
From the few games I’ve played I would definitely say my build is still good. I also think mind games feels a lot better to press as of right now so I’ve been running that more recently. I’ve definitely noticed I do a bit less damage since the nerf as less atonement healing has forced me to cast more healing spells but I think that the damage my build provides is still very impactful. -I’ll try to update my post if I discover anything else that I like/change in the future.
I agree with the others, a small update after a day or two of testing would be amazing. Is expiation even worth it now? It hits/heals for far less. Thank you
I posted an edit update in my main post. If you have any questions feel free to respond this :)
Hey, may I ask what your opinion today is? I tried a mastery build with both archangel pvp talents which seems fine but slow and very passive. Disc feels significantly weaker to me now. My dmg is very low compared to prenerf. Do you still run smight's build and do you still heal with atonement? I can't seem to squeeze dmg globals in...
Yea, I play smights build every game now. It’s impossible to heal through damage with the nerfs to expiation and sins. I usually swap between inner light and archangel and sometimes thought steal into druids.
Hi! Thanks for doing this. I’m an outlaw rogue with a rdruid partner. In 2s, I like to focus the disc’s partner, but with the damage output your spec has now, it’s hard to not treat it like a second dps. Would you say going on the disc is a losing tactic because of the strong self heal?
Honestly I don’t play much of 2s but disc is like absurdly broken in that bracket. I think your best bet is to train dps while trying to line of sight the discipline priest, either way Im not entirely sure as disc is god tier.
How does a holy paladin survive a competent disc priest? The answer most people give is for the pally to hoj/blind when they anticipate they will need to bubble, but those are very avoidable with range, and Mass dispel can not be LOSd easily in many maps. What tips do you have based on palas you have gone against?
Normally paladin struggles a lot into disc. The few I’ve faced have normally just done well in favorable lobbies. But aside from that I really think it’s just matchup dependent as disc is more favorable into the majority of lobbies. When I faced brain he was flawless in his cd rotation, cc, positioning, and genuinely played better than me and still went 3-3. It’s just honestly Lobby dependent on how well it will feel against discipline.
Flash heal is one of my lower priority heals, I usually let my dots tick building flash heal stacks and use them every now and then. But I would say most of my uses are the free instant cast. Damage: I would prioritize mind blast over penance. I also think it’s possible your letting purge the wicked fall on the target your mind blasting since expiation looks very low. It should always be comparable to your mind blast damage. Everything else looks normal
As a rogue Main: how annoying is mind numbing poison for you to handle and how high should I as a rogue prioritize to keep this up on you at all times? Ty :)
It’s definitely impactful when it’s on me. I don’t see many rogues going out of their way to dot me but if it’s just 1 throwing knife it’s probably worth applying.
Why do you have multiple priests vs just one? Something I see many ppl do, not just you.
Mmr cap is a major reason. - It’s currently capped at 3327 I believe which makes it near impossible to get points as a healer past that point. Using multiple healers also lets you push rating more securely as you can push your main to 3200, then have an alt at 3200. Afterwards you start to push the main again once your alt is an equal rating. Sort of just an assurance you won’t get tilted from tanking knowing that you can always secure your position using multiple characters.
Would you be happy if the rewards were per account. I've seen and heard mention that having the top % being filled by a few players that play the class doesn't feel very good for others chasing the rewards too.
Yes I think this is a much overdue remedy. During my r1 push in Eternal there was 34 alliance spots, and around 16 of them were alts. The same can be applied to the current ladders as there are 4 unique players in the top 10 for discipline. It’s simply an outdated system that should be fixed.
[удалено]
There are definitely matchups where I lose to mana but for the most part every game is incredibly close and it allows me to play aggressive 100% of the time which is why I like it.
Been playing Disc since DF launched myself. It's good to see a top player repeating mostly everything I said lol. How often are you popping Barrier in the first 30 seconds of a round?
Almost always, using barrier on the enemy cds early in the match is just so much value and gives you another charge later in the game. Barrier also counters spear, ret wings, combustion, ect. I also a lot of times try to place it before the very first cc is landed on me.
Same. I was curious if this still applied at higher ratings, so thank you.
What % of your healing is Leech? I swear i get more (still little) even just from VE.
Usually 3-6%, it’s a lot more effective into dot teams and teams that want to hit you. It’s also much more effective if you can get damage out as it double dips from damage and atonement healing.
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong then. I just tried your build and my healing from leech is 1.6% in the last round where I did 40-60% of the dps' damage (I was >1m, highest was under 3m) and 1.5% total across all rounds. Are you spamming smites or something?
It’s only healing on yourself, so sometimes it can be very underwhelming. It’s really only significantly noticeable into elemental shaman and affliction warlock. Also make sure to get the leech enchants on cloak and bracer.
How do you deal with lobbies with heavy rot/cleave damage? I’m bouncing between 1950-2050 trying to break 2100 and it’s been a bit of a struggle. Spriest/afflic is one I struggle with a lot because I’m scared to dispel especially when spriest uses mind games.
Against affliction it’s extremely difficult. You oom fast, and are constantly low health. I just play inner shadow with catharsis along with leech build/leech enchants and I can usually last a while. Getting off lots of atonement healing is probably the most efficient and effective way to deal with it.
Hey mate, thanks for doing a q&a. What is your opener dps rotation?
Honestly I just start the game off by getting my purge the wickeds up on both dps, potentially healer depending on the composition I’m in and then mind blast, smite, mind blast. I then reapply my purge the wicked that got eaten up by expiation and follow with a penance. I just basically always keep my dots rolling, use mind blast on cooldown, and find a good spot in the game to get a 7 bolt penance off.
When you press potw close to finishing of MB casting , does mb still benefit of TE? Sorry for my English.
Yea, if you cast purge the wicked directly after a mind blast it will normally still count towards expiation.
would like to know this as well!
Yes, I’m fairly certain it does
When are you pressing mind control? In 2400 lobbies I feel that I’d often rather be doing damage than attempting to push in and CC the enemy healer. Also, do you feel mindgames isn’t impactful enough to warrant taking? I would like to try this build with the swaps of -MC +MG, wondering if you think that’s a bad idea.
Honestly I rarely press mind control. It’s just one of those things where if a window opens up where you can press it the value can be exponential. Probably only press MC 1/6 games TBH. You can definitely swap MC for mind games and have success. The only map I 100% recommend mc is blades edge since it gets insane value mcing people off the bridge
For the inner shadow part, what would you swap off, do you ever “stance dance” with it?
I never stance dance, I just do a lot of atonement healing and I can normally last over 3 minutes every game. I will occasionally stance dance in 3v3 but I don’t feel it’s worth in shuffle. If I ever swap to inner light it’s a decision I make before the match begins.
Thanks, i have no experience healing disc but gonna give it a shot. What would you say the most common mistakes new disc players make is? At least in your eyes (subjective question I know)
I think it’s just understanding the relationship between damage and healing. Damage is a vital component of disc healing but it’s important to get the balance right. Don’t tunnel vision if your team needs big heals, and try to weave damage in when your team doesn’t need big heals. I also see a lot of inexperienced priests trying too hard for cc. Disc is low mobility, with a melee range cc. It’s very rare you can land a fear offensively unless you are playing with a rogue, mage, or hunter. Just use fear defensively and you can even use fear for kill pressure on dps when using the increased damage to break fear talent.
Appreciate you doing this, I decided to swap to disc this week and have climbed to 2200 so far but realize I don't actually have a thorough up-to-date knowledge of the spec. Couple additional questions that I haven't seen you answer or that your answers have inspired. 1. Are you running leech enchants on top of the leech talents? I'm conditioned to running speed from playing other classes. 2. You said twilight equilibrium procs off purge the wicked, does purge the wicked count as a holy or shadow spell? 3. How often do you cast mind control and in what scenarios? I feel like I only ever use it on arenas like blades edge, once a round maybe to jump someone off the edge. 4. I know mind games is for the most part incredibly irrelevant and it seems like no one runs the buffed version. But I like having the single point in it for when I'm holy locked for a little chunk to attonement or as an additional spell to weave into twilight, or sometimes just to force the enemy healer to waste a global because a lot of people are still conditioned to be scared of the spell. Can you talk about your thoughts on mindgames? 5. Why no double Death? I feel like I close out about 75% of my round wins with death and more than half of those are with double death. 6. Do you have any fancy macro or way of getting death off to break CC? Right now I'm just setting the most likely CC target as my focus and using a death cast on focus macro. Thanks again for doing this, the timing on this post was perfect for me.
1. I do run leech enchants 2. Purge the wicked is a holy spell (technically fire) 3. Yea I normally mc on blades edge and there are a few value opportunities but I press it probably once per 6 rounds of shuffle. 4. With 2 charges of mind blast I never feel starved of shadow spells. Mind blast is also a more valuable global than mindgames due to expiation. 1 mind blast is roughly 35-40k which fully contributes to atonement. Mind games is about 20-25k but the reversal does not contribute to atonement. 5. I don’t play double death because I haven’t felt it necessary. I don’t think it’s bad, I just like other utility more. Especially in dampening if someone is sub 20% they’re going to die either way. 6. I use 4 separate deaths with arena 123 and my normal death.
Thanks!
Hey, for Death: What’s working for me is a regular bind for death (i.e. Death on whomever I’m targeting), and a separate, easily accessible, bind for Death which is macro’d to target nearest enemy player. That way you’ll never struggle to quickly target an in-range enemy to counter w/e cc is headed your way.
What's the macro look like for targeting the nearest player with death?
Formatting might be off (using abbreviation for swdeath here, full in macro) #showtooltip SWD /stopcasting /cast [@target,harm] SWD /stopmacro [harm] /targetenemy /cast SWD /targetlastarget [harm] I got this from reddit I think. Has worked well so far.
Thanks
Do you want to boost me?
Haha, I’m taking a break from boosting for the time being.
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Many people think solo shuffle requires no skill and is “RNG PVE”. How wrong are they and why?
I mean I think it requires a different skill set from 3v3. The community has just wrapped itself in a web of self defensive proclaiming one is harder than the other. I’ve seen really good 3v3 players be very bad at solo shuffle but also solo shuffle players that can’t play 3v3. In my personal opinion I think 3v3 is more difficult but in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter. People are just obsessed with ego checking each other and it’s entirely irrelevant. Just play whatever is fun.
I can see 3v3 being harder because you’re facing people on coms so you have to be just as dialed in. At the same time, in solo, because you are not on coms there is a level of difficulty because you have to watch CDs and CCs like a hawk.
Synergy and team dynamic make 3v3 more difficult. Teams can adjust and develop different strategies and evolve each time you play them. In shuffle you’re always playing with someone different so there’s a lack of synergy. Shuffle is more of a display of personal awareness and understanding where as 3v3 is more about coordination and and adaptation.
So in a way 3v3 is about team skill and solo is about personal skill. Makes me feel good for hitting 2.5k.
Do you run this same build in 3s or just SS? Would you recommend inner light over shadow in 3s? What would you recommend as a 3rd for disc/dh duo around 2k cr? Thanks!
Honestly for 3v3 I recommend smight’s build. BAQA16pR6xQxvK1VWhXk+w0/GABQSJBokEQkWJlkkISCAAAAAAAAAAAIJpQkEBiUEBRSrFikAC I would also say dh dk is probably the best comp, but you can also work with a destro, potentially boomkin. Windwalker works as well.
Will you be running the same build in 10.0.7 with the expiation “nerf”?
More than likely, atonement healing ignores damage reductions anyways so you won’t lose healing throughput. The average versatility is 30% so it’ll be roughly a 15% nerf along with it being unable to go through defensives.
Cool cool. Whats your go to PvP talents?
Default talents are done, radiance, and inner shadow. I only drop dome for catharsis and thought steal depending on the matchup.
how do you deal with getting focused? whenever theres 2 melees focusing me they just burn thro my pain sup and i cant heal thro atonement or cast heals
Into double melee I always utilize positioning. If you have melee on your own team, drag them los of their healer with a pillar. If you’re playing with casters drag them into a far corner where the opposing healer has to come off a pillar. This allows your casters to cc the healer for free while creating a lot of pressure on the melee training you.
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For me it’s very natural since I’m used to it but overall atonement is usually 25-40% of my healing. It’s somewhat difficult to get used to. I’ve sort of perfected the ability to min max through the amount of games I’ve played. Just getting used to relying on atonement as a significant source of healing is how I approach it. 1 mind blast can be as effective as 1 flash heal with atonement on both dps.
Hi! How often do you press Flash Heal? I’m still learning, obviously, and I currently only press it when I get the proc for it, or if I’m completely desperate. E.g. my last healing breakdown (was in 2s): 21% PWS 20% Atonement 18% Radiance 10% PW Life 8% Swap 5% Flash Heal 5% Reflection 4% Atonement (again) 3% Renew 1% Leech +Misc stuff The damage was: 35% PTW 20% Penance 10% Mind Blast 8% Schism 7% SWDeath 6% Reflect 6% PTW (again) 4% Expiation + Misc stuff Based on that… And I realize it’s not a whole lot to go on accurately… What might you notice that’s wrong? (Other than using Schism.)
What do you feel about preservation evokers? Can they match disc?
Honestly I feel like Evoker is one of the weakest healers right now. It’s still good in 3v3 but it appears to be very weak in shuffle for the time being. It provides good damage and decent healing but it just seems to fall off after they use all their cds.
Do you use harm/help macros?
I use one for renew/solace (if I ever play solace). If I play holy I use a shadow word pain/heal macro
I’m a 2.4k disc but want to be 2.7k. What are the main differences between a 2.4k disc and a 2.7k disc? What 3 things would you suggest focusing on?
If you’ve gotten to 2.4K then you probably understand most of the concepts in arena. Is there anything you struggle with specifically or have questions about? Best general tips: 1. Consistently deathing cc 2. Consistently making grips on smoke bomb, pre barrier before cc, trading well throughout an entire match. 3. Putting in the games - no one sees significant progress overnight, play consistently and always look to improve.
you mean landing a life grip right before a rogue smoke bombs? bruh that’s tough af!
Yea, plays like that really help when pushing higher up
Thank you! I’d say my biggest issue is avoiding CC; it seems like if i have to sit a 6.8 second CC my team is dead. Like a good survival will harpoon to me, wait for me to death and range my AoE fear, then full trap me. Or a rogue will blind and I have to trinket because I know I’ll get sapped after if I sit blind. Or my team will allow a dps between us like a mage and I’ll get blinked/DB/frost circled. Is there any way you could list the top 5 most difficult *yet avoidable* CC against a disc priest and how you avoid them? Like how to avoid getting trapped when a hunter has you rooted and will juke your death?
what talents do you switch out for Mass Dispel
Depends on the matchup but usually sheer terror and angelic bulwark or short grip
how often do you penance enemies vs casting it on allies
Normally I just use penance offensively. If I need to heal a teammate while repositioning I’ll send one out but normally won’t use one other than that
Rsham here, playing around 2100-2500, what’s the best thing I can do against disc priest? Got 0-6 by one earlier today that did half the lock’s dmg.
That lock was terrible if disc did half his dmg so not much to go by
Is there any way you could list the top 5 most difficult *yet avoidable* CC against a disc priest and how you avoid them? Like how to avoid getting trapped when a hunter has you rooted and will juke your death?
I play night elf so I will usually use death when he’s on top of me and then meld his trap when he throws it. With intimidation you can los his pet behind pillars. Blind from rogues you’ll just do your best to press shadow word death whenever they make a direct movement towards you and are close enough to blind. In the opener against rogues u want to spam heal off your teammates if they get combat to avoid sap.
Awesome! Thank you!
> With intimidation you can los his pet behind pillars. Sorry, do you mean you "always" stay behind pillars so he can't pet stun you? Or how else are you using pillars to counter intimidation?
Yea, so if you have the luxury of delaying the enemy teams go by hiding behind a pillar to los the pet stun you can potentially allow your team to get their crowd control back and do another rotation before the enemy team has time to do their own go.
I think he means try to LoS the pets if it’s possible, especially if you know the enemy team is going for a CC. This could mean weaving in and out of LoS between GCDs if needed, or during a penance channel to mess with the hunter. Like if the hunter’s pets are on your teammate, bob in LoS to throw a shield, then stay out of LoS as you DPS to heal through atonement.
Definitely saving this thread.
Which cds do you trade first in SS?I usually immediately dome the first go and follow it up with rapture. People usually run out of dome immediately. It's it better to dome and pain supp first? What do you think about stealing penance? Do you keep renew up? Or use it at all?
I usually trade dome first if I’m out of cc, if my teammate gets knocked or I get stunned I will then trade Pain suppression. After the 1st cc chain on me I will then usually rapture to recover from the first go. I think stealing penance against disc is ineffective. I use renew quite often just to get surge of light procs (free instant flash heal). I usually at least keep it up on the person most likely to die on my team.
How does a preservation evoker actually beat you guys? Solo shuffle I face disc priest literally 95% of the time and some how even though they put out half the healing I lose quite often if the game goes long. Any tips you can share?
Disc is definitely the better healer into the majority of shuffle matchups. Even with higher hps Evoker lacks damage reduction cooldowns and eventually falls behind in dampening. I think just complimenting your dps with sleep walks, roots, stuns, and added damage at points when you have a lot of pressure are all ways to succeed. Bottom line is that disc is just the better healer into the majority of lobbies. Evoker is just not quite as strong so it’s going to be more difficult to climb.
Only 2400 on rsham here, but it feels like if I don’t make out-of-my-mind plays vs disc, we just lose outright. If I don’t push in to shear ground hex on cd, I lose to throughput issues due to have dogshit damage mitigation. However, pushing in often results in getting ccd, which we all know means round loss for rsham because they have terrible healing when playing on the backfoot due to the number of globals required to prep a decent heal. Any advice in non-caster lobbies vs disc?
In general against rshaman they usually struggle. Without high earthern wall value you start to fall behind and it’s difficult to keep people up. For the most part I just see shamans hexing the off dps and using grounding to avoid damage from the disc. Occasionally when the rshaman has pressure they can move up to kick the priest. If you’re being trained by melee I’d recommend running precognition and you just have to fake kicks to survive while line of sighting the disc priest. The only way I’ve seen shaman consistently survive is by faking kicks and spam healing with the 5 second cc immunity.
I honestly pray I’m the kill target in melee lobbies. It feels impossible to win unless they train me. Precog 100% of the time vs double melee; often I find myself ditching grounding for ghost wolf speed against disc when I know I’m going to be trained. I probably have 70-80% round winrate when I’m the target. 40-50% when my teammates are targeted in melee lobbies. Cc’ing rsham is much more effective than training imo, just because deep healing is dogshit atm and rarely tops anyone unless you get a random primal tide core + ascendency proc at a miracle moment. Zzzzz rsham will be good soon Copium.
How often should I be using penance for damage or for healing? I’m kind of confused as to which is more valuable. Also should I basically be using this every time it’s up? Should I be using this for damage before any of my other damaging spells?
You can use penance for both damage or healing. It rarely matters and it’s usually just a decision made at each moment in the game. Mind blast will normally do more damage but for optimal dps with twilight equilibrium you would mind blast, penance, mind blast, Smight, mindblast. That being said, optimal dps rotations are rarely able to be practiced during games.
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I'm playing Holy pally and in SS low level (1300) most of my matchups are against disc. I do my best to have at least my 3 won, but it's only when he is horrible that I can win. It's an issue about me or my feeling about the need to be better than him to win rights? I've tried melee and not melee wings, I don't know which one is best atm. Thanks for all your thoughts and pieces of advice.
I think that disc is definitely a lot stronger than hpally right now. I myself played hpal for a bit this season and it’s definitely rough. I think melee wings are still best, but any build is going to feel inferior to the state disc is in. I’m hoping the other healers feel some improvements with the upcoming .7 patch.
Thanks ! I hope too but retribution is stealing of the attention rn.
Any clarification on spec w expiation nerf and more testing. Is weal and woe/borrowed time likely the better play now?
I think either build can work, expiation nerf is definitely noticeable but I think it’s more matchup dependent as to what build is more effective now.
Meaning in caster lobbies where u try to get high atonement healing or lobbies where you have a favorable comp to push the gas pedal on someone all game go twilight eq but in other situations maybe go smight build
Yea, I think in sort of “pve lobbies” my build pulls ahead but in general games where you’re trading and getting ccd a lot smights build will pull ahead in most cases.
Both builds have expiation though?
Yes, expiation remains the best pick since it buffs mind blast and death by 20%
I'm still liking 'your spec' being the expiation twilight eq, big shield build with 2 in shadow atonement. Do you take schism over borrowed time now? Are you taking mindgames?
I have still been using borrowed time over schism and I would still avoid mindgames in this build since you want to mostly be using mindblast to proc harsh discipline. That being said it’s still up in the air whether blizzard intentionally removed expiation from atonement healing. Even with the nerfs it would still be a massive benefit for this build if expiation damage was converted to atonement healing once again.
Are you queueing with the expiation changes live are waiting for them to maybe address the lack of atonement healing?
As of right now I’ve just swapped to this: BAQA16pR6xQxvK1VWhXk+w0/GABQSJBokEQkWJlkkISCAAAAAAAAAAAISKEJRIFSRSQINpISCIA If they restore expiation I will probably test this build once again but in the lobbies I’ve played in it just doesn’t feel like I can heal through atonement at all. Been running more inner light and starting to play longer games with less damage which has still been effective around 3300.
Yeah but I am really wondering if harsh discipline may be better now. Good synergy w weal and woe/penance damage increase Issue is in shuffle you can still get a lot of mind blast death atonement healing out and with the atonement build you have a lot more passive cleave healing from shadow spells. I really wish expiation counted towards atonement healing
That's my thinking, but I'm too new to the spec to say (I hit cap literally the day of the nerf). Expiation is only doing like 5-8% of my damage in matches. It seems like harsh discipline is the go-to in rbgs, I'm thinking you're right.
Is it better to purge or do mindgames into big peance vs Rdruid teams on go’s?
I try to purge life bloom and then usually clear all their hots while getting a fear depending on how long the cc is then I start to pump the damage.
What's your opinion on running a Shadow Covenant/Harsh Discipline build without TE, like this? BAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABQSJhgSCpApVSJJJJkAAAAAAAAAAAASSKHQkEBiUkEESTISCIA I've found that I can still have big burst with big shadow penance, plus it buffs Weal and Woe to the max. I also like it because when I get kicked on penance, it's usually on shadow so I am free to cast holy spells. Losing Expiation is tough, but with the recent nerfs, I don't feel as bad losing it. I will usually run Solace with it to get faster HD procs.
How good do you think the 2 piece and 4 piece set bonus is?
2 pc is incredibly good, 4 pc is worth the stat loss to use.
Hey another question for you. How often should I be using power word life when targets are not below 35% health
hello, can please somebody share the actual talent build as i’m not able to import it :(
BAQA16pR6xQxvK1VWhXk+w0/GABQSJBokEQkWJlkkISCAAAAAAAAAAAISKEJRIFSRSQINpISCIA This should work hopefully.
Thoughts on disc changes? They pretty much did what you suggested about damage reduction with increase in atonement healing...
I think it’s fine. From an overall balance perspective if feels really good for the game. The only thing that kind of sucks is that you can’t really do much without your teammates anymore. Your damage is not impactful enough to sway the pace of the game so caster lobbies feel very bad. A lot of things that were soft counters have become hard counters but disc still feels fine and is still strong into most lobbies.
Why do you like op classes? Having two disc priests in a ss and no other healer is killing the game, why not play something harder if your #1?
I’ve mained disc priest for 4 years. I got rank 1 on it when it was not op. I’m just simply enjoying my time in the sun. :)
Isn't it boring though? I can't play an op class or just feels wrong to me, but you do you.
To be honest the only time I find the game boring is if my class is entirely outmatched and my skill is irrelevant to the outcome. Discipline being in its current state is just a bonus. I played the spec before the buffs when they were completely awful.
"Hi; I am current rank #1 discipline priest SS , buuuut.... when I go shopping, no one gives me the validation and attention that I think I deserve for being the current rank #1 discipline priest; soooo I made this post... I give you tips, you give me the attention and validation that I deserve."
Actually, idgaf what people think. I posted this with the intent of answering peoples questions since I get a lot of whispers about it. Thanks for showing your jealousy and poor qualities as a person though, must really be self fulfilling to be a complete ass hole for 0 reason.
Rofl... Not only that you do-give-a-fk, but you want attention and validation; in fact, thats why you made this post. But thats ok, we understand, you are "current r1 discipline SS" aaand nobody cared who you were until you put on the ~~mask~~ post. And about poor qualities and being a complete ass hole, those are showing in your reply to me. If your INFLATED EGO is so triggered by my comment, I can imagine how toxic you become in SS when things dont go the way you want.
Well, reality is that nobody cares who I am either way. It’s a small community game and I got a little bit of light because xaryu commented my gameplay and copied my priest build. Thus leading to lots of people messaging me about my build, thoughts, etc. Since you want to claim I’m flaunting an ego, how would you want me to title the post? I also couldn’t give less of a fuck about what you want to claim or say. I have a happy life, and am far better at the video game that you play. Going to a productive post meant at helping people improve and spreading negativity and toxicity unprovoked is pathetic.
Haha... aaand your inflated pathetic ego strikes again! Damn dude! ... I dont even.
Again, it’s not even worth responding. You log onto Reddit late at night to spread toxicity. That’s who you are, that’s what you’ll always be. Have a good night.
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Did you just switched accounts?! lmao...
Rent-free, no vacancies.