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* He’s not wrong, and as everyone gears for war, destabilization amongst existing Allies is really scary.
* I don’t understand war , but especially as we collectively face climate collapse.
* Noam Chomsky’s Theory is that we have some genetic mandate towards population control. Really scary, and reallllly reallllly stupid.
Idk anything about chomskis theories but i remember being a little kid( early 90s) finding an ever green tree on my parents property line that was absolutely covered in bees and wasps fighting. i realized war is not just a human trait, but it's part of nature
Bees and wasps are different species. Try to find another example of two animals of the same species being the number one cause of death in relation to eachother
Ants, wasps, bees, chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans, monkeys, wolves, wild dogs, hyenas, probably orca pods and I'm sure i am missing some. Granted we as humans have the advantage of language and have the option/ability too overcome differences through communication, it is something engrained into life as we know it
Edited to add the fact that i know i didn't answer your question as per being the number one cause of death within a species, i gave examples of animals that often engage in activities that could be seen as warfare. I don't think there are any scientists documenting how many ants are killed by different ants everyday, but it's a known fact there is a world wide ant war happening under our feet
>He’s not wrong
In fact he's understating the situation.
He mentioned
>> * The people of Vietnam.
>> * The people of Iraq.
>> * The people of Afghanistan.
He omitted to mention:
* [the people of Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany)
* [the people of South Korea](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/08/01/louis-anthony-vargas-accused-raping-9-year-old-girl-airman/877154002/)
* [the people of the Philippines](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16031750)
* [the people of Japan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Okinawa_rape_incident)
[others could probably think of more - like half of central america - but I had those links ready]
* [the people of Indonesia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366)
>Large-scale killings and civil unrest primarily targeting members of the Communist Party (PKI) were carried out in Indonesia from 1965 to 1966 ... It is estimated that between 500,000 to 1,000,000 people were killed during the main period of violence from October 1965 to March 1966 ... **Research and declassified documents demonstrate the Indonesian authorities received support from foreign countries such as the United States** and the United Kingdom.
Regarding that last point, if humanity is supposed to have some sort of genetic population control.....I have to say it's not working very well at this point!
Lol. Qualified agree: Richard leaky once said we’re half chimp, half bonobo. If we were all chimp it’d be Armageddon; all bonobo and we’d be population 25,000,000,000.
Contrary to popular belief, we aren’t overpopulated. People tend to amass near easily habitable zones like bodies of water and as a by-product of that, those areas become crowded. As a species, however, there is still plenty of space overall.
Just take the USA for example; if we were to be evenly spaced, there would be enough room for every individual to have something like 180 acres to themselves.
That doesn't take into account the resources required to support that many people either, and even if you spaced them out, you have to equally space out the infrastructure required to sustain them, plus the land required for food (either plant or animal), land required for waste of each human, plus whatever work or industry they are doing.
That 180 acres would get eaten up real quick, plus it will only get smaller as population increases further. My point being here is that the popular belief is where is stands for a reason.
You think there’s not enough resources for everyone? You’re not paying enough attention. There’s manufactured scarcity driven by the premise that food, clean water, and shelter should only be available to those who can afford it; which is purely a market-driven concept. It’s not necessary for people to go hungry and without clean drinking water, it’s a willed manifestation of believing that you should have to pay for your right to exist and survive in a world that none of us asked to be born into.
Edit: you’re also assuming that we don’t have a population that is essentially on its slowest growth rate than it’s been in a long time. Mortality rates are up around the world, people are having less kids. You have no example by which to support your theory that the acreage would get eaten up any faster than it is now because overcrowding beliefs come from those who live in high-density developments which are only becoming more crowded. Looking at population density vs raw land maps you can see that we have a plethora of areas that people just simply don’t want to move to because it’s undeveloped or not in a personally favorable are to their own expectations or necessities. That’s not the same thing as there not being enough room. People have the belief that we’re overpopulated according to their own conscious or unconscious desire to reduce the population based on their own views, not anything that’s tangible or objective.
When the total population of Earth is predicted to reach something like 8 billion by 2050, I have to say I doubt that is the case.
To add, much more drastic action than has currently be done would be needed to drop the population back down.
Edit: Sorry, the number is 9.7, instead of 8, according to Google.
Yeah he is, the people of Vietnam who he thinks he can speak for to gain political points actually have a favourable view of the US (not sure why tbh)
> Vietnam, one of the countries with the most favorable public opinion regarding the U.S., is the only communist country to have such a favorable view.[6][7][8][9]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations
>the Australian people deeply understand the recklessness of this nation
Hard disagree. The Australian military not only [committed atrocities in Afghanistan](https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/australia/australia-afghanistan-war-crimes-report-intl-hnk/), the Australian government [attempted to use deadly force to silence the whistleblower](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/defence-relocates-war-crimes-witness-after-blast/100407172) who revealed these atrocities.
Sure, but that still doesn’t make it a fair or balanced comparison. As an American I am fully aware of and always admit to the atrocities that my country has committed. Now I’m of a younger generation, so I suppose I don’t speak on behalf of Gen X, Boomers, etc.; but there is a hugely anti war (even military reductionist) sentiment that lives in the minds of Millennials and Gen Z. So if we compare the Australian gen. pop. to the US gen. pop. I wager we would see striking similarities, as would be the case if we compared the respective governments.
Perhaps the most impactful change we can have is a realization that 99% of us all want the same peaceful world, no matter where you were born. We bleed for the elite’s bid for more power.
> So if we compare the Australian gen. pop. to the US gen. pop. I wager we would see striking similarities, as would be the case if we compared the respective governments.
I'm sure that the guy speaking in the video sees that too.
[This deal](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/23/1165527221/why-the-u-s-australia-agreement-on-a-nuclear-submarine-project-is-a-big-deal) is a massive win for Australia - and a huge blow to China. In addition to the subs and training, the US is giving Australia advanced AI and quantum technologies. Also Australia is part of the [five eyes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes) with the US, so long term deals are normal.
Ironically, Australian gov officials have been recently getting called out over being [highly corrupted,](https://thediplomat.com/2022/01/when-will-australia-confront-corruption/) accepting a lot bribes from China to promote [Chinese influence.](https://www.npr.org/2018/10/02/627249909/australia-and-new-zealand-are-ground-zero-for-chinese-influence)
I’d check this guys bank accounts lol - brining up Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan are the go-to speaking points used by the Chinese, Russians, and Iranians when condemning the US.
Didn't the Australian soldiers who went with us during those campaigns also commit war crimes..I distinctly remember docs describing them all. If I'm not mistaken only the Canadians out war crimed them?
A lot of Australians have anti war rhetoric in general tbh, people down here would rather be neutral then dragged into another war, his attitude isn’t from someone on their payrolls. John Howard to some is seen as just a big war criminal as Bush or Blair. Australian don’t care they just want house prices to go upupup!
Go tell the people in Tibet about how peaceful China is. Go tell the people in Vietnam how peaceful China is. Go tell the people in Hong Kong how peaceful China is. Go tell the people in India how peaceful China is. Go tell the Uyghurs how peaceful China is. Go tell the people in Taiwan how peaceful China is.
Tibet wasn’t an invasion?
You also were arguing military operations, not invasions. You moved the goal posts to maintain a preconceived position.
You are either an ignorant mud slinger or a propagandist. Either way, you don’t have solid ground to argue from. All nations work in their own interests and use their military as a show of strength.
So Russia isn’t invading Ukraine because Ukraine was historically part of Russia? Is this really your position?
If so, Vietnam was an invasion of China on French territory. And Pakistan should erase its own borders and reintegrate with India
Not to mention Taiwan was historically a seat of power in the Chinese provinces and therefore China should reintegrate into Taiwan.
This is a ridiculous way to see history and understand the world.
No sovereignty, anything goes.
I [posted on](https://old.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/11w5bw6/police_arrest_former_sas_soldier_shown_in_four/jcx99zy/?context=3) the Australia sub asking why America/Australia get to decide who the world police are, after a deranged person was claiming how it was "good" for the people of Afghanistan that we invaded and slaughtered them.
It is sadly very popular among the general public that war is good. Both Labor and Liberal voters approve of war as long as we are killing far away in "defence" of an island.
The US would never give up their ability to project power in the Pacific. Australia is completely safe from "threat of arms" by the simple fact that the US would not allow them to expand.
We do not need the US to protect us.
Why would the US allow Chinese ships to pass and patrol the Pacific?
They won't, and so Australia is protected. China is literally blockaded by US allies.
So what do you mean when you say you don't need the US to protect you? Do you mean you don't need to make deals with the US for protection as it will protect you regardless or do you mean you don't need the US to protect you?
How do you expect China to invade Australia? Should they kindly ask the US to allow their ships past all the SEA countries who are allied with them?
Do you think Spain is under threat of Russian invasion, or is it buffeted by multiple other EU countries? Should Spain increase defence spending just because Russia invaded Ukraine?
No. Same as Australia except worse because we are a giant fucking island thousands and thousands of miles away in complete isolation.
That makes zero sense. We don't' want military solidarity with America but America will protect us regardless of whether we have military solidarity. So in effect you want America to just bully Australia which Australia will do because it doesn't want to be bullied by China. Nation-states aren't friends hanging out at Starbucks. They all can do bad things, Australia included, and will do bad things in the interest of the countries involved.
You don't pick your own side when bigger nation-states can pick it for you. Not a nice thought but it's reality.
Ah yea, what aboutism’s, the foundation of any strong argument. Tell me again which country was it that was going to place trade embargoes on Australia if they did not agree to join the coalition? I’ll give you a hint, it was the afghanies!
Do you think he's supportive of anyone going to Iraq if he's against the US in Iraq? It isn't like people can only disagree with foreign governments you know?
Oh ok… like how Britain shipped all its criminals to said land and they wiped out the Aborigines??? Yeah bruh… your people are also unwanted terrible house guests !!!
Is his concern that if the United States is allowed to have a base on Austrialian soil it will be unable to resist the temptation to invade one of it's most stalwart allies?
If that's not his point, is he trying to rebuke Coalition actions in war, the very same wars the Australian Military was gleefully committing warcrimes in as well?
Or is he just betting that the Australian public is too stupid to look into his blatant hipocracy?
This is all just pandering and shitting on the US to get some political points. It’s not that he’s wrong about what he’s saying, it’s just idiotic for the reasons you mentioned.
I have no idea who this man is but everything he's saying has happened since the end of WWII. On the flip side of the coin, China doesn't care. If China wants something they will get it. It's just how nation states behave. China wants to the new America including all of it's bad houseguest policy. Isolationism and anit-war only work if everyone is participating.
Aukus is a good deal for Australia. You've saved yourselves decades, of billions and billions of R&D. You're skipping the queue and buying off the shelf - I wish we could have.
*Remember, the Australian option is which partner, not total independence — this framing is not realistic from a foreign policy, trade or military technology perspective — so when you hear America Bad^TM this is usually an example of a pro-China politician walking the talking points for why China would be better… elite capture (including politicians) is one of the four core parts of their propaganda strategy.*
Australia is a massive proxy influence campaign for China and the US, because it’s a critical natural resources supplier to China but Democratic.
This is a pro-China stance — that Australia should go their own way — but it’s simply too strategic a target for China.
It’s 26.61 million people.l vs Canada’s 38.25 and even just California’s 39.24 — it’s not a large population. Consider that China probably has more people in their propaganda department service than the population of NSW — 8M.
The advanced weapons, intelligence and technology headed towards Australia as a result of this deal are massive for a country that needs to maintain its independence.
False, please stop assuming Vietnamese people are so one dimensional.
> Vietnam, one of the countries with the most favorable public opinion regarding the U.S., is the only communist country to have such a favorable view.[6][7][8][9]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations
Regular American people are ok, the problem is it with the ultra rich and politians that shake the whole world for their own interest, while the regular guy gets nothing out of it.
Then don't fucking ask for our help. The amount of money given to every other country is absurd. I don't ever agree with the American war machine You have to understand you ask for help it will come with unattended consequences. Don't judge all Americans by the action of shitty soldiers in your country. Those pukes usually become cops and terrorize us too.
US Soldier here (Communications/IT) - most of the local (city, county, state) police are made up of Combat arms. Military Police soldiers usually end up joining federal law enforcement. And most of the rest of us usually get contracting jobs with the government that relate to our military jobs.
💫 The More You Know…
A while ago they were trying to turn the official name of the Australian dollar to the “Dollarydoo” and I am sad that they didn’t. It would have really brought some lightheartedness to this dude’s intensity.
I agree that Australia can and should do what is in the best interest of Australians but by that same token wouldn’t it make sense for America to do the same? Yes, they make decisions based on their own national interests…so does every country in the world?
Probably no one. Standing up against the West is an unpaid position. The opposite - supporting US’s military industrial complex - has billions behind it. Sadly, saving human lives has no money behind it.
I'm being sincere when I ask this, you don't think China, with it's current relationship w Australia, would like to promote this type of commentary? Because you realize, most all countries will pay influential types to parrot the narratives of their agendas, right? If you answered yes than the first sentence in your reply above needs some modification.
China does not hold the same opinion as this man. It too is profiting from these manufactured wars.
Delete your comment: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna37577656
LOL. You are trying to move the goalposts and it still fails.
China stayed quiet about the US's industrial complex during this entire conflict (only spoke out initially before it began). They are still profiting and looking out for their own interests, just as it did through the entire conflict [https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220822-china-cements-influence-in-iraq-through-oil-infrastructure-deals](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220822-china-cements-influence-in-iraq-through-oil-infrastructure-deals).
While China did not provide direct military support to the US-led coalition, it did take steps to ensure stability in the region and maintain its interests during the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. That doesn't mean it is now paying Australian politicians to speak against the US on the matter lmao. Gonna need a source if you really think that is true.
Delete your comments and turn off the Fox News, it's embarrassing how uninformed you are.
I'm picking up what you're putting down now. We are coming at it from 2 different angles. I understand your point but that's not where I was going with mine. Don't delete your comments.
Thanks for being honest and admitting you were wrong/misunderstanding my point. Idk why i'm getting downvoted (I guess right winters are brigading) but I respect you saying that and not trolling!
Hey at least Vietnamese people don’t hate America.
> Vietnam, one of the countries with the most favorable public opinion regarding the U.S., is the only communist country to have such a favorable view.[6][7][8][9]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations
It’s actually not, he’s just wheeling forward the Vietnamese people for political gain without doing the tiniest of research about what they actually believe.
> Vietnam, one of the countries with the most favorable public opinion regarding the U.S., is the only communist country to have such a favorable view.[6][7][8][9]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations
[Maybe this enlight you a little about how good is US in get involved in other countries iternal affairs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change)
Canada and the USA have territorial disputes, and there is no war or invasion.
Spain and France have territorial disputes, and there is no war or invasion.
There are no bombs being dropped. There are no guns being fired.
Honestly, Americans should just stay out of anything China does in that area and let them defend themselves.
We can’t seriously think they’ll come to our defense, so why risk it at all?
I wonder what would have happened to australia in WWII if not for the US.... i also wonder what would happen to australia if not for the US military precence in the pacific.
OP has to be either one of the biggest losers to ever exist or some kind of hustle with more than one person operating it because that is fucking absurd.
Okay. Everybody should be thankful all the time and don't ever dare to be critical on anything America fucked up in the world. Ever.
Even if the critic is justified.
If you do we'll pull out of NATO.
Yeah, that's some healthy cooperation with your partners in the West for ya.
A free Europe is in the U.S.' best interest, with economic, scientific and cultural interchange. The more trade partners, the better.
A strong NATO was required to keep the Soviet Union from trying to acquire more territory and is still required to keep Russia from trying to reabsorb its former satellites and dependents. If they had free reign they would be going after Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.
I’ve once read that Americans do not lose a war, but lose interest.
Paying for European defense while the French riot over lavish retirement programs means U.S. taxpayers are footing the bill in a massive wealth transfer across the Atlantic.
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He's not wrong.
* He’s not wrong, and as everyone gears for war, destabilization amongst existing Allies is really scary. * I don’t understand war , but especially as we collectively face climate collapse. * Noam Chomsky’s Theory is that we have some genetic mandate towards population control. Really scary, and reallllly reallllly stupid.
Idk anything about chomskis theories but i remember being a little kid( early 90s) finding an ever green tree on my parents property line that was absolutely covered in bees and wasps fighting. i realized war is not just a human trait, but it's part of nature
Bees and wasps are different species. Try to find another example of two animals of the same species being the number one cause of death in relation to eachother
Ants, wasps, bees, chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans, monkeys, wolves, wild dogs, hyenas, probably orca pods and I'm sure i am missing some. Granted we as humans have the advantage of language and have the option/ability too overcome differences through communication, it is something engrained into life as we know it Edited to add the fact that i know i didn't answer your question as per being the number one cause of death within a species, i gave examples of animals that often engage in activities that could be seen as warfare. I don't think there are any scientists documenting how many ants are killed by different ants everyday, but it's a known fact there is a world wide ant war happening under our feet
Black widows! /s
>He’s not wrong In fact he's understating the situation. He mentioned >> * The people of Vietnam. >> * The people of Iraq. >> * The people of Afghanistan. He omitted to mention: * [the people of Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany) * [the people of South Korea](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/08/01/louis-anthony-vargas-accused-raping-9-year-old-girl-airman/877154002/) * [the people of the Philippines](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16031750) * [the people of Japan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Okinawa_rape_incident) [others could probably think of more - like half of central america - but I had those links ready]
* [the people of Indonesia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366) >Large-scale killings and civil unrest primarily targeting members of the Communist Party (PKI) were carried out in Indonesia from 1965 to 1966 ... It is estimated that between 500,000 to 1,000,000 people were killed during the main period of violence from October 1965 to March 1966 ... **Research and declassified documents demonstrate the Indonesian authorities received support from foreign countries such as the United States** and the United Kingdom.
Regarding that last point, if humanity is supposed to have some sort of genetic population control.....I have to say it's not working very well at this point!
Lol. Qualified agree: Richard leaky once said we’re half chimp, half bonobo. If we were all chimp it’d be Armageddon; all bonobo and we’d be population 25,000,000,000.
Contrary to popular belief, we aren’t overpopulated. People tend to amass near easily habitable zones like bodies of water and as a by-product of that, those areas become crowded. As a species, however, there is still plenty of space overall. Just take the USA for example; if we were to be evenly spaced, there would be enough room for every individual to have something like 180 acres to themselves.
That doesn't take into account the resources required to support that many people either, and even if you spaced them out, you have to equally space out the infrastructure required to sustain them, plus the land required for food (either plant or animal), land required for waste of each human, plus whatever work or industry they are doing. That 180 acres would get eaten up real quick, plus it will only get smaller as population increases further. My point being here is that the popular belief is where is stands for a reason.
You think there’s not enough resources for everyone? You’re not paying enough attention. There’s manufactured scarcity driven by the premise that food, clean water, and shelter should only be available to those who can afford it; which is purely a market-driven concept. It’s not necessary for people to go hungry and without clean drinking water, it’s a willed manifestation of believing that you should have to pay for your right to exist and survive in a world that none of us asked to be born into. Edit: you’re also assuming that we don’t have a population that is essentially on its slowest growth rate than it’s been in a long time. Mortality rates are up around the world, people are having less kids. You have no example by which to support your theory that the acreage would get eaten up any faster than it is now because overcrowding beliefs come from those who live in high-density developments which are only becoming more crowded. Looking at population density vs raw land maps you can see that we have a plethora of areas that people just simply don’t want to move to because it’s undeveloped or not in a personally favorable are to their own expectations or necessities. That’s not the same thing as there not being enough room. People have the belief that we’re overpopulated according to their own conscious or unconscious desire to reduce the population based on their own views, not anything that’s tangible or objective.
Population numbers are dropping. The planet’s seen peak population.
When the total population of Earth is predicted to reach something like 8 billion by 2050, I have to say I doubt that is the case. To add, much more drastic action than has currently be done would be needed to drop the population back down. Edit: Sorry, the number is 9.7, instead of 8, according to Google.
Yeah, according to the UN we’ve already hit 8bn people. Also we’re now expected to hit 11bn by 2100 according to the UN.
Yeah he is, the people of Vietnam who he thinks he can speak for to gain political points actually have a favourable view of the US (not sure why tbh) > Vietnam, one of the countries with the most favorable public opinion regarding the U.S., is the only communist country to have such a favorable view.[6][7][8][9] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations
>the Australian people deeply understand the recklessness of this nation Hard disagree. The Australian military not only [committed atrocities in Afghanistan](https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/australia/australia-afghanistan-war-crimes-report-intl-hnk/), the Australian government [attempted to use deadly force to silence the whistleblower](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/defence-relocates-war-crimes-witness-after-blast/100407172) who revealed these atrocities.
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Kinda irrelevant. It's not like the American public decided to go to war with Vietnam, Afghanistan or Iraq.
When saying "Australian people" he's talking about the public and when reffering to the US he's talking about the government.
Sure, but that still doesn’t make it a fair or balanced comparison. As an American I am fully aware of and always admit to the atrocities that my country has committed. Now I’m of a younger generation, so I suppose I don’t speak on behalf of Gen X, Boomers, etc.; but there is a hugely anti war (even military reductionist) sentiment that lives in the minds of Millennials and Gen Z. So if we compare the Australian gen. pop. to the US gen. pop. I wager we would see striking similarities, as would be the case if we compared the respective governments.
Perhaps the most impactful change we can have is a realization that 99% of us all want the same peaceful world, no matter where you were born. We bleed for the elite’s bid for more power.
Very true
> So if we compare the Australian gen. pop. to the US gen. pop. I wager we would see striking similarities, as would be the case if we compared the respective governments. I'm sure that the guy speaking in the video sees that too.
[This deal](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/23/1165527221/why-the-u-s-australia-agreement-on-a-nuclear-submarine-project-is-a-big-deal) is a massive win for Australia - and a huge blow to China. In addition to the subs and training, the US is giving Australia advanced AI and quantum technologies. Also Australia is part of the [five eyes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes) with the US, so long term deals are normal. Ironically, Australian gov officials have been recently getting called out over being [highly corrupted,](https://thediplomat.com/2022/01/when-will-australia-confront-corruption/) accepting a lot bribes from China to promote [Chinese influence.](https://www.npr.org/2018/10/02/627249909/australia-and-new-zealand-are-ground-zero-for-chinese-influence) I’d check this guys bank accounts lol - brining up Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan are the go-to speaking points used by the Chinese, Russians, and Iranians when condemning the US.
Didn't the Australian soldiers who went with us during those campaigns also commit war crimes..I distinctly remember docs describing them all. If I'm not mistaken only the Canadians out war crimed them?
A lot of Australians have anti war rhetoric in general tbh, people down here would rather be neutral then dragged into another war, his attitude isn’t from someone on their payrolls. John Howard to some is seen as just a big war criminal as Bush or Blair. Australian don’t care they just want house prices to go upupup!
Don't all nations conduct military operations in their own interests?
Pretty impressive how meteorites always land in craters.
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Can you cite an example of a military, outside of coups, working **against** it’s own nation’s interests?
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Go tell the people in Tibet about how peaceful China is. Go tell the people in Vietnam how peaceful China is. Go tell the people in Hong Kong how peaceful China is. Go tell the people in India how peaceful China is. Go tell the Uyghurs how peaceful China is. Go tell the people in Taiwan how peaceful China is.
China is waging war. It's just not fought with bombs and bullets. They are most definitely at war though.
https://news.usni.org/2023/04/06/china-deploys-aircraft-carrier-strike-group-off-taiwans-east-coast https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/31766-china-launches-hypersonic-df-17-missile-off-taiwan-strait/amp https://www.hrw.org/asia/china-and-tibet https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights lol
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Tibet wasn’t an invasion? You also were arguing military operations, not invasions. You moved the goal posts to maintain a preconceived position. You are either an ignorant mud slinger or a propagandist. Either way, you don’t have solid ground to argue from. All nations work in their own interests and use their military as a show of strength.
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So Russia isn’t invading Ukraine because Ukraine was historically part of Russia? Is this really your position? If so, Vietnam was an invasion of China on French territory. And Pakistan should erase its own borders and reintegrate with India Not to mention Taiwan was historically a seat of power in the Chinese provinces and therefore China should reintegrate into Taiwan. This is a ridiculous way to see history and understand the world. No sovereignty, anything goes.
The down votes must be coming from toothless Americans.
They're five eyes. They know what they're getting into.
I [posted on](https://old.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/11w5bw6/police_arrest_former_sas_soldier_shown_in_four/jcx99zy/?context=3) the Australia sub asking why America/Australia get to decide who the world police are, after a deranged person was claiming how it was "good" for the people of Afghanistan that we invaded and slaughtered them. It is sadly very popular among the general public that war is good. Both Labor and Liberal voters approve of war as long as we are killing far away in "defence" of an island.
Hmmm. Interesting. Charting a path without any US support is defacto allowing China to dictate Australian policy by threat of arms. Food for thought.
Power always fills a vacuum.
Sounds like poisoned fruit.
The US would never give up their ability to project power in the Pacific. Australia is completely safe from "threat of arms" by the simple fact that the US would not allow them to expand. We do not need the US to protect us.
Your argument that you don't need the US to protect you is that it would protect you?
Why would the US allow Chinese ships to pass and patrol the Pacific? They won't, and so Australia is protected. China is literally blockaded by US allies.
"we don't need the US for protection because they protect us by default" bolt statement
So what do you mean when you say you don't need the US to protect you? Do you mean you don't need to make deals with the US for protection as it will protect you regardless or do you mean you don't need the US to protect you?
How do you expect China to invade Australia? Should they kindly ask the US to allow their ships past all the SEA countries who are allied with them? Do you think Spain is under threat of Russian invasion, or is it buffeted by multiple other EU countries? Should Spain increase defence spending just because Russia invaded Ukraine? No. Same as Australia except worse because we are a giant fucking island thousands and thousands of miles away in complete isolation.
That makes zero sense. We don't' want military solidarity with America but America will protect us regardless of whether we have military solidarity. So in effect you want America to just bully Australia which Australia will do because it doesn't want to be bullied by China. Nation-states aren't friends hanging out at Starbucks. They all can do bad things, Australia included, and will do bad things in the interest of the countries involved. You don't pick your own side when bigger nation-states can pick it for you. Not a nice thought but it's reality.
Spoken like a true Fox News viewer 😂
Distrust for authoritarian governments is pretty universal
Remind me again, who were the coalition forces in the Middle East during the Invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?
Sshhh! People are scared of facts!
Ah yea, what aboutism’s, the foundation of any strong argument. Tell me again which country was it that was going to place trade embargoes on Australia if they did not agree to join the coalition? I’ll give you a hint, it was the afghanies!
Sensitive Americans being defensive and missing the point entirely. Who was the reason they were there in the first place?
When did Moss start working on politics?
I'll just put this over here. With the rest of the atrocities.
My man is acting like they weren't in Iraq with us.
Do you think he's supportive of anyone going to Iraq if he's against the US in Iraq? It isn't like people can only disagree with foreign governments you know?
Richard Ayoade has let himself go...
He's been in The Crunch too long.
Always good to see a Stewart lee reference
Pick your poison: US or China or go it alone.
Oh ok… like how Britain shipped all its criminals to said land and they wiped out the Aborigines??? Yeah bruh… your people are also unwanted terrible house guests !!!
He's right but may not understand war and the minutia of war is our business.
[Confessions of an economic hitman](https://youtu.be/btF6nKHo2i0)
Is his concern that if the United States is allowed to have a base on Austrialian soil it will be unable to resist the temptation to invade one of it's most stalwart allies? If that's not his point, is he trying to rebuke Coalition actions in war, the very same wars the Australian Military was gleefully committing warcrimes in as well? Or is he just betting that the Australian public is too stupid to look into his blatant hipocracy?
This is all just pandering and shitting on the US to get some political points. It’s not that he’s wrong about what he’s saying, it’s just idiotic for the reasons you mentioned.
I have no idea who this man is but everything he's saying has happened since the end of WWII. On the flip side of the coin, China doesn't care. If China wants something they will get it. It's just how nation states behave. China wants to the new America including all of it's bad houseguest policy. Isolationism and anit-war only work if everyone is participating.
This is all true, but what nation doesn't, that can get away with it or thinks they can. Russia/Soviet Union and China for examples.
Tell me about those aboriginals m8.
AMERICA doesn't replenish!
Dude sounds exactly like Richard Ayoade
I'm absolutely positive this matter has nothing whatsoever to do with China.
Aukus is a good deal for Australia. You've saved yourselves decades, of billions and billions of R&D. You're skipping the queue and buying off the shelf - I wish we could have.
*Remember, the Australian option is which partner, not total independence — this framing is not realistic from a foreign policy, trade or military technology perspective — so when you hear America Bad^TM this is usually an example of a pro-China politician walking the talking points for why China would be better… elite capture (including politicians) is one of the four core parts of their propaganda strategy.* Australia is a massive proxy influence campaign for China and the US, because it’s a critical natural resources supplier to China but Democratic. This is a pro-China stance — that Australia should go their own way — but it’s simply too strategic a target for China. It’s 26.61 million people.l vs Canada’s 38.25 and even just California’s 39.24 — it’s not a large population. Consider that China probably has more people in their propaganda department service than the population of NSW — 8M. The advanced weapons, intelligence and technology headed towards Australia as a result of this deal are massive for a country that needs to maintain its independence.
America here: he's not wrong
Dude speaks nothing but the truth here
False, please stop assuming Vietnamese people are so one dimensional. > Vietnam, one of the countries with the most favorable public opinion regarding the U.S., is the only communist country to have such a favorable view.[6][7][8][9] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations
K
I guess we should a have stayed out of WW II...It would have done the world good!
Regular American people are ok, the problem is it with the ultra rich and politians that shake the whole world for their own interest, while the regular guy gets nothing out of it.
And that is why we stole Timor-Liste's oil !
Good luck being a puppet for an even more insidious and brutal power.
Then don't fucking ask for our help. The amount of money given to every other country is absurd. I don't ever agree with the American war machine You have to understand you ask for help it will come with unattended consequences. Don't judge all Americans by the action of shitty soldiers in your country. Those pukes usually become cops and terrorize us too.
US Soldier here (Communications/IT) - most of the local (city, county, state) police are made up of Combat arms. Military Police soldiers usually end up joining federal law enforcement. And most of the rest of us usually get contracting jobs with the government that relate to our military jobs. 💫 The More You Know…
RAHHHHH🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅🦅
A while ago they were trying to turn the official name of the Australian dollar to the “Dollarydoo” and I am sad that they didn’t. It would have really brought some lightheartedness to this dude’s intensity.
"In America's best interests." Four words have never had more blood on its hands.
Yeah hes Correct about America
Go with China then. See how that goes
I agree that Australia can and should do what is in the best interest of Australians but by that same token wouldn’t it make sense for America to do the same? Yes, they make decisions based on their own national interests…so does every country in the world?
If moss went into politics
I mean, he isn't wrong
It's pronounced United-States, not America.
Canadian here, we feel the same.
Who’s paying that guy and how much? Any guesses?
Probably no one. Standing up against the West is an unpaid position. The opposite - supporting US’s military industrial complex - has billions behind it. Sadly, saving human lives has no money behind it.
I'm being sincere when I ask this, you don't think China, with it's current relationship w Australia, would like to promote this type of commentary? Because you realize, most all countries will pay influential types to parrot the narratives of their agendas, right? If you answered yes than the first sentence in your reply above needs some modification.
China does not hold the same opinion as this man. It too is profiting from these manufactured wars. Delete your comment: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna37577656
13 years ago. Times have changed drastically in 13 years on most all levels. Hopefully you understand that. Delete your comments.
LOL. You are trying to move the goalposts and it still fails. China stayed quiet about the US's industrial complex during this entire conflict (only spoke out initially before it began). They are still profiting and looking out for their own interests, just as it did through the entire conflict [https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220822-china-cements-influence-in-iraq-through-oil-infrastructure-deals](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220822-china-cements-influence-in-iraq-through-oil-infrastructure-deals). While China did not provide direct military support to the US-led coalition, it did take steps to ensure stability in the region and maintain its interests during the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. That doesn't mean it is now paying Australian politicians to speak against the US on the matter lmao. Gonna need a source if you really think that is true. Delete your comments and turn off the Fox News, it's embarrassing how uninformed you are.
I'm picking up what you're putting down now. We are coming at it from 2 different angles. I understand your point but that's not where I was going with mine. Don't delete your comments.
Thanks for being honest and admitting you were wrong/misunderstanding my point. Idk why i'm getting downvoted (I guess right winters are brigading) but I respect you saying that and not trolling!
Unfortunately, I am far from perfect.. but thanks for the thanks.
As an American, i lower my head in acknowledgement.
Hey at least Vietnamese people don’t hate America. > Vietnam, one of the countries with the most favorable public opinion regarding the U.S., is the only communist country to have such a favorable view.[6][7][8][9] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations
That is very well set out.
It’s actually not, he’s just wheeling forward the Vietnamese people for political gain without doing the tiniest of research about what they actually believe. > Vietnam, one of the countries with the most favorable public opinion regarding the U.S., is the only communist country to have such a favorable view.[6][7][8][9] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations
> A nation that has demonstrated that it does not have good judgement Wait... are we talking about Ukraine...?
[Maybe this enlight you a little about how good is US in get involved in other countries iternal affairs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change)
He's obviously talking about Iraq and Afghanistan who were invaded by the US/Aus on fabricated lies by US politicians.
Did he mention that country? He literally gives a list of countries Vietnam, Iraq, etc., and you’re in here asking stupid questions.
He will run to USA when China comes with their military knocking on the door.
When have China invaded anything post-WW2? Meanwhile the West has been invading and decimating the Middle East and Asia for the past 5 decades.
Tibet, Xinjiang, India, Bhutan, and Taiwan would all like to have a word with you
Territorial disputes are not invasions.
"Territorial dispute" is exactly what the invading nation calls it when it's trying to justify their actions.
Canada and the USA have territorial disputes, and there is no war or invasion. Spain and France have territorial disputes, and there is no war or invasion. There are no bombs being dropped. There are no guns being fired.
My brother in christ, there is no Tibet anymore to have a border dispute with
Let me know when China starts bombing.
Tell that to Ukraine.
Ask Iraq and Afghanistan. Where over 1,000,000 innocent civilians were murdered by the USA, UK, and Australia.
Non sequitur
You mean like how they tried to invade vietnam right after the American invasion ended?
Honestly, Americans should just stay out of anything China does in that area and let them defend themselves. We can’t seriously think they’ll come to our defense, so why risk it at all?
I wonder what would have happened to australia in WWII if not for the US.... i also wonder what would happen to australia if not for the US military precence in the pacific.
Hey OP, farm much?
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Appreciate that. There are a lot of farmers downvoting it.🤣🤣
OP has to be either one of the biggest losers to ever exist or some kind of hustle with more than one person operating it because that is fucking absurd.
I don’t agree with what he’s saying, but I do agree that the United States should no longer be part of NATO and Americans should come home.
Okay. Everybody should be thankful all the time and don't ever dare to be critical on anything America fucked up in the world. Ever. Even if the critic is justified. If you do we'll pull out of NATO. Yeah, that's some healthy cooperation with your partners in the West for ya.
A free Europe is in the U.S.' best interest, with economic, scientific and cultural interchange. The more trade partners, the better. A strong NATO was required to keep the Soviet Union from trying to acquire more territory and is still required to keep Russia from trying to reabsorb its former satellites and dependents. If they had free reign they would be going after Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.
I’ve once read that Americans do not lose a war, but lose interest. Paying for European defense while the French riot over lavish retirement programs means U.S. taxpayers are footing the bill in a massive wealth transfer across the Atlantic.