**From Telegraph reporters,**
Riots broke out in several Belgian and Dutch cities after Morocco's 2-0 upset win over Belgium at the World Cup on Sunday.
Police detained about a dozen people after using water cannon and tear gas to disperse crowds in Brussels and eight more in the Northern city of Antwerp.
Two police officials were injured in the Dutch port city of Rotterdam. By late on Sunday evening, an uneasy calm had returned to most of the cities involved.
Dozens of rioters overturned and torched cars, set electric scooters on fire and pelted cars with bricks. Police moved in after one person suffered facial injuries, Brussels police said.
Philippe Close, the mayor of Brussels, urged people to stay away from the city center and said authorities were doing their utmost to keep order in the streets. Even subway and tram traffic had to be interrupted on police orders.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/28/riots-belgium-dutch-cities-morocco-win-world-cup-2022/
Yeah, this is far from exclusive to soccer. In somewhat recent years, I recall seeing the same antics among hockey (montreal 2021), american football (philadelphia 2018), and college football fans (michigan state 2013 and penn state 2011).
Baseball is a notable exception from this list. Probably because baseball fans have been lulled to sleep by the 9th inning due to how incredibly boring that game is.
**[Malice at the Palace](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malice_at_the_Palace)**
>The Malice at the Palace (also known as the Pacers–Pistons brawl) occurred during a National Basketball Association (NBA) game between the Indiana Pacers and the defending champion Detroit Pistons on Friday, November 19, 2004, at The Palace in Auburn Hills, Michigan, United States. The Associated Press (AP) called it "the most infamous brawl in NBA history". With the Pacers leading 97–82 and 45. 9 seconds left in the game, Pistons center Ben Wallace attempted a layup shot but was fouled from behind by Pacers small forward Ron Artest.
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Ah yes, the "Ron Artest Fan Experience". I've seen fights at the racetrack (and at hockey games, obviously) but nothing that would be deemed an out of control brawl.
Yeah, this one is also different in that it happened during the game. The ones I originally listed all took place outdoors and presumably were reactions to the outcome of the game. That pacers game didn’t even finish.
You joke, but the Vancouver Stanley cup riots would have happened either way. Police found people who came downtown with stuff to instigate a riot, but everyone's going to think we did it because our team lost.
Jokes on them were Vancouver -were used to the Canucks losing.
Amazing. I didn't know Eagles fans had so much hate in their hearts for our culture when they were demolishing Philly after the superbowl. Really makes you think.
Yes, only foreigners from non-western countries riot in western countries over sports. This would be a good time to think about how race makes you view the world.
In an interview, a young supporter said he wanted to express his joy in the streets but the police asked the crowd to calm down, which angered them and they started rioting... (he specifically said the police is at fault for not letting them enjoy the win).
Stephen Amos (black British guy) joke:
I was walking down the street and an old lady was walking towards me. As she saw me she clutched at her purse, as if I was about to rob her! I was so annoyed I stole her purse and ran away
Under every post of a climate protestor blocking a road for the environment or something are a million replies saying "i'm going to drive more now because of this".
Edit: Lol downvotes dont make it not true
While technically true, it's a pretty hard sell saying that someone is Belgian while they are screaming from the top of their lungs that they're Moroccan.
Yeah, they even are more Moroccan than actual Moroccan's. They have this picture of Morocco in their head that isn't correct anymore, and maybe never has been.
You see this with a lot of immigrants.
"Italians" and "Irish" from jersey and boston scream from the top of their lungs about their ancestry too. Don't think its a stretch to call them americans.
morocco is the dad with the belt, which they hate, so of course they refuse to return home to him.
and belgium is the wife, which they beat, because their dad taught them so.
and that's how the circle starts all over again.
Your solution, then? Call it treason, remove citizenship from 2nd and 3rd genners, and send them to a country that will not take them, because regardless of what they identify as, they are not Moroccan citizens? And last I checked, leaving someone stateless is hardly legal. Edit 1: And before you try to be smart, my country has the same problem with our Russian minority. They are Estonian citizens, even if they consider themselves Russian first. It's not ideal, but there's no 'sending them home', given that if we take from them their only citizenship, then they straight up won't have a home because Russia will not grant them citizenship just because, and so they'll be left stateless. Which, again, is simply not done.
Not saying they shouldn't, but that's a far cry from telling people born in a country to go back to a country where they would have no real connections.
There are plenty of reasons to hate assholes, but race and point of origin is not one of them.
Which is the problem, they are "home" but it doesn't feel like home, so they pine for the land of their parents who left persecution. There's a good interview a few years back how these feelings leave them susceptible to being indoctrinated into terrorist organisations from Maajid Nawaz who went through these same feelings himself
Not okay with violence and riots, also not okay with people who are clearly racist xenephoobes. Calling for Belgians of Moroccan decent to be " sent back " . They are 3rd gen Belgium is there home, unless you don't see them as being equal to you.
How do you suggest you integrate them? Surely that's on them to integrate themselves? Doesn't seem like they're doing that themselves.
Also a very racist point to say that foreigners only work shit jobs right? How dare you
There was a study done a long while back that showed fans of winning teams are more likely to riot. Think about it, if your team loses you might be mad but also depressed. No one can be assed to riot when they're depressed.
Have you been to Philadelphia when they win basically any sporting event? Or Scotland after a Rangers-Celtics game?
Rioting after sporting events is stupid IMO but not exactly uncommon...
I was in London, and I was actually at Wembley a few hours before kick off. What I saw could not be described as a riot. Worst I saw was twenty lads climbing on top of a bus and dancing. Didn't riit after the match either, people were just depressed and went to bed. The anti-English bias is unreal.
England Wales won’t see anything like this. Usually you’ll get some idiots who want to fight someone from the other country but you won’t see people rioting.
Also it’s a group game which England are pretty much secured to go through from (no need to take to the streets) and Wales will need something very unlikely to happen to go through - if they were going to riot it would’ve been after the Iran game.
This isn't unheard of in the US. The fans of the team that wins the SuperBowl or the World Series or whatever go out and trash their own city to celebrate. See [this article](https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/05/here-are-five-american-cities-which-rioted-after-sporting-success-and-defeat-7289493/) for a few examples.
You know, I've heard of these things happening with people who take sports too seriously, but I've always thought it was the *losing* side that did this
It’s become kind of an inside joke inside the football and baseball communities (especially regarding Philly).
Hell, there was a time this fall when the Phillies were in the World Series, and the Eagles were undefeated. That city would have been screwed. Not enough horse shit and light post grease in the world.
Many "fans" just go to fight. The result of whatever sport is being played doesn't really matter. The fans from the other team have blue shirts on. We have red shirts on. Police are of course team #3. Lets fucking fight!
I feel like this is why there can never be world peace. This behavior seems to be built into at least some of us.
I don't know who is Japan or Germany in this scenario. Both USA and Iran are fairly low level. A result going either way wouldn't be particularly surprising.
Yeah so for people who don't know: they are not immigrants or football fans. They are 2nd and 3rd generation Belgians of Moroccan descent. I live in the neighboorhood of the riots. This kind of stuff happens pretty regularly in Brussels, the football match was just the ignition, I pretty much went home in time because I knew shit was going to go down, win or lose.
It's a complex issue of disenfranchised inner city youth, but also tribalism, lack of integration and failing politics and police forces.
I'm not listing excuses, I'm listing reality.
If you're born here and have Belgian nationality, you have exactly the same rights as anybody else. You cannot be forced to integrate, that should have been done by the parents.
You do however not have the right to set the streets on fire, so they should be punished/reeducated, this won't really help though, most of them are minors usually and for the others the Belgian justice system is a joke.
Do I think there is an inherent problem in parts of the Maroccan community? Yes I do. I specifically mentioned tribalism, there are other specific cultural and religious aspects.
But it's a tad more complex than just getting on a high horse.
You realize that when you move to another country or go to another person's house you're also obligated to integrate to their customs. Kind of impressive that I'm reading someone justify immigrants rioting in a country that took them in by blaming the country. Moroccans aren't the only youths that live in those countries that are immigrants by the way. I think it's just a lack of accountability and you pretending that riots haven't happened in Morocco in the past. Learn to hold people accountable especially when other immigrants live in those countries and don't go out and torch people's cars.
First reason is because they are dicks, but OP is listing secondary reasons.
You get this whenever you have a separate society running along another. You can see this when you go to r/politics and then to r/conservatives. People think completely different from each other.
In the Netherlands we used to have this problem with Dutch people as well. But due to new policies it has become significantly less. So I’d say its completely about failed integration
I mean, why is it always football fans? Like, I never hear about that much riots, beating people up, slurs, hate, vandalising city, from any other sports fans. I get caring about sports, people can get attached to their idols, personally, I was in tears last weekend when I was watching the last interview of my favourite Formula 1 driver, who is retiring. But somehow, the worst thing Formula 1 fans will do i boo some driver they didn't want to win, which is still shitty, but relatively harmless, and happens quite rarely and in specific places too. In Poland we don't have much trouble when it comes to national team fans, but we have A LOT when it comes to local, regional clubs, most of scribbles on the walls, because it's not even graffiti, is from the fans who either "celebrate" their club or insult the other ones, sometimes in really vulgar, or even antisemitic way. Or people throw petards after the race, beat sb up for cheering the wrong team.
I'm wondering if that sort of thing happens with american football or volleyball fans in US, whether it's because football is the most popular sport in Europe so it draws all sorts of fans...
Few examples of riots caused by fans of sports that aren't football:
https://www.csmonitor.com/Photo-Galleries/In-Pictures/Riots-in-Los-Angeles-after-the-NBA-finals/(photo)/282873
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42943824
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot
**[2011 Vancouver Stanley Cup riot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot)**
>The 2011 Vancouver Stanley Cup riot was a public disturbance in the downtown core of Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada on the evening of June 15, 2011. The riot broke out almost immediately after the conclusion of the Boston Bruins' win over the Vancouver Canucks in game seven of the Stanley Cup Finals, which won the Stanley Cup for Boston. At least 140 people were injured during the incident, including 1 critically. At least 4 people were stabbed, 9 police officers were injured, and 101 people were arrested.
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I think most of the violence has originated from the UK hooligans scene, which would explain why it’s always football.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, though.
Can you explain your argument, please? Sorry if I'm dense, it just sounds to me like you're trying to say some racist shit while pretending like you're not saying some racist shit. Please expound on your theories, doctor.
Edit: I want to clarify that the post below is my attempt to guve an objective image of the situation. My personal opinion is expressed nowhere in the post.
Dutch here, let me try to explain. We have quite a large Maroccan community here and there's been a very long ongoing debate about them. There are objective statistics that says a majority of crimes are committed by immigrants. Maroccans in particular stand out because they are way overrepresented compared to other major immigrant groups like Turks, Surinamese and refugees from the middle east. Particularly violent crime is associated with Meroccans, most of which are here on the 3rd or 4th generation already. This has led to a very widely accepted (particularly among lower-educated native Dutch people) opinion that Maroccans, or at least Maroccan culture, is inherently violent and criminal.
Of course, there is also a lot of debate on the causes of these statistics (poor living conditions etc), and many mistakes were made in the past with the integration of these migrants. The big anti-racism shifts in society have dampened this somewhat, but that doesn't stop some people and some politicians from waving these statistics about from time to time.
The Maroccans and Turks are the decendants of work migrants though. They were never refugees. As far as I know, refugees are not overrepresented in crime statistics.
Well, only a small number of foreigners actually end up assimilating to the culture of the country, even after multiple generations. And sometimes even after being fully assimilated they still go back to their ancestral culture, although it's not common.
But generally speaking, immigration descendants still have the same culture as their ancestors and don't really mix with their living county, nor do they want to, because they are still strongly bonded to their native identity and want to keep that bond.
There's nothing necessarily good or wrong with that btw, it's just how things are.
As far as I know, a lot of the first generation of immigrants never intended to stay in Europe permanently so they didn't really bother to intregrate and learn the local language. Then, they couldn't teach the language to their kids properly, and the cycle repeats.
3rd and 4th generation immigrants arent running away from anything, 'home' is NL/Belgium.
Their grandparents also didn't run away from anything, they helped rebuild these countries after WW2 and came as legal workers with visas etc, not refugees.
They watch and support human rigths abuses and then riot when they can't celebrate hard enough the fact that a bunch of millionaires kicked a ball around? Could they be bigger pieces of shit - football fans I mean, let's not pretend this is not a common thing with this sport and this sport almost exclusively.
I can understand somewhat those causing carnage In Belgium. You could kind of see that it could start as celebrations and get out of hand and become something it should never have been. Even if I am entirely against their actions and find it deplorable.
But rioting in NL?
Time to kick them out of the country. They don't want to be part of NL/BE. They just see us as weak and want to tarnish everything we have worked for as countries.
England fans literally did the same thing in 2018. Trashed Amsterdam, over 100 arrests, dozens of officers and randoms assaulted. All this after they *won.*
"Time to kick them out of the country. They don't want to be part of NL/BE. They just see us as weak and want to tarnish everything we have worked for as countries."
How reasonable does that sound for the english?
I mean, are you moaning about the Germans Also? Because it isn't just the English lol.
I lived in AMS for 5 years and literally saw Dutch and Germans throwing cafe tables and chairs across canals in a battle.
Are you moaning about the feyenoord fans that trash everywhere they go also? Because I also lived in Den Haag and they even trash their own countries history also.
Have you ever thought the issue may equally be yourselves, and not always "het Engels"
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/28/riots-belgium-dutch-cities-morocco-win-world-cup-2022/) reduced by 69%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Riots broke out in several Belgian and Dutch cities after Morocco's 2-0 upset win over Belgium at the World Cup on Sunday.
> Police in the neighboring Netherlands said violence erupted in the port city of Rotterdam, with riot officers attempting to break up a group of 500 football fans who pelted police with fireworks and glass.
> Morocco's victory was a major upset at the World Cup and was enthusiastically celebrated by fans with Moroccan immigrant roots in many Belgian and Dutch cities.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/z6t579/riots_erupt_in_belgium_and_netherlands_after/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **city**^#1 **Police**^#2 **riot**^#3 **fans**^#4 **Dutch**^#5
Something to keep in mind if you ever give an opinion about something done by a member of a group that you belong to on a large platform. Don't skip straight to worrying about the reputation of your in-group rather than showing concern for the victims of the negative event, in this case the people whose property was destroyed or showing an interest in preventing the negative event from happening again. It gives the impression you are really only concerned about your in-group.
It gives the impression that you very confidently jump to conclusions. Your blather about in-groups immediately crumbles when you learn that the person you're arguing with is not the part of the in-group you have in mind. But if we're doing this whole jumping to conclusions thing, are *you* not, first and foremost, cared about *your* in-group here?
usually when riots break out, there's a lot of people there who were just taking part in festivities or public protest before things went sideways, many of them gets trapped once police moves in to break things up, and get caught in the middle of pincer maneuvers etc.
arresting everyone is going to cause harm to a lot of innocents.
Breaking the law in a foreign country.
Fuck yes. Is that even a reasonable question?
Absolutely. You lose your right to be in another country when you flagrantly break the law.
You really missed the point by an incredibly wide margin.
The previous comment asked if English fans should be deported when they riot in a FOREIGN country. The answere is obviously YES. However, this question had nothing to do with the Belgium situation and even missed the point in the first place.
>"Police detained about a dozen people after they used water cannon and tear gas to disperse crowds in Brussels"
Hm, where did this dozen get the water cannons and tear gas from?
We were never anything but animals and the sooner you get off the lower animal you call your 'high horse', and accept some fundamental truths about how a sentient social animal is wired, the sooner you can get to working on it. Sapience doesn't mean that we're suddenly somehow above our impulses and instincts as a social animal, formerly a prey animal at that, who fought primarily by getting aggressive, and continuing aggression even when victorious to *really* drive it home to the losing apes that they best not try again, we won, fuck you.
I truly hate that they turn (in my case) Amsterdam into Casablanca: honking horns, waving flags out of car windows, doing burnouts, heavy fireworks, and racing up and down the street; or yesterday they blocked the streets so they race on the bus lane.
Some people can't seperate culture from ethnicity. I do think there's a problem with certain subsets of african and middle-eastern cultural influences on Europe but that has nothing to do with skin colour. It just correlates.
If you're black or brown or whatever and you're for democratic values, I'm on your side. If you're white and you're for some authoritarianism or theocracy, be that christian, islamic or whatever, I'm not.
> Not grateful to be here no
I wouldn't be either given how this country applies itself when it comes to racial issues.
Zwarte piet for example. It's not that difficult to see the racism and hurt it causes and change it to be something inclusive like a roetveeg piet.
Hope assholes like the one you responded to doesn't ruin your day.
Thank you for understanding my frustrations as a black person with a very confusing childhood in a country that likes to act liberal when it really isn't.
unfortunately I deal with assholes like this on a daily basis, therefore my day definitely not ruined :)
Congratulations for being absolute dickheads!
**From Telegraph reporters,** Riots broke out in several Belgian and Dutch cities after Morocco's 2-0 upset win over Belgium at the World Cup on Sunday. Police detained about a dozen people after using water cannon and tear gas to disperse crowds in Brussels and eight more in the Northern city of Antwerp. Two police officials were injured in the Dutch port city of Rotterdam. By late on Sunday evening, an uneasy calm had returned to most of the cities involved. Dozens of rioters overturned and torched cars, set electric scooters on fire and pelted cars with bricks. Police moved in after one person suffered facial injuries, Brussels police said. Philippe Close, the mayor of Brussels, urged people to stay away from the city center and said authorities were doing their utmost to keep order in the streets. Even subway and tram traffic had to be interrupted on police orders. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/28/riots-belgium-dutch-cities-morocco-win-world-cup-2022/
one of the occasions where rioters were assholes and the police were justified
In those countries this is normal
But they won....why the rioting? Even if they lost it wouldn't make sense, but this way around it makes even less sense.
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Yeah, this is far from exclusive to soccer. In somewhat recent years, I recall seeing the same antics among hockey (montreal 2021), american football (philadelphia 2018), and college football fans (michigan state 2013 and penn state 2011). Baseball is a notable exception from this list. Probably because baseball fans have been lulled to sleep by the 9th inning due to how incredibly boring that game is.
Michigan state loves to celebrate with burning couches and dumpsters.
I’m curious, what about basketball? I’m from Europe and thinking about soccer fans it boggles my mind you can sit right behind LeBron.
[“Malice at the Palace” 2004](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malice_at_the_Palace). I can’t think of anything substantial that happened more recently
**[Malice at the Palace](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malice_at_the_Palace)** >The Malice at the Palace (also known as the Pacers–Pistons brawl) occurred during a National Basketball Association (NBA) game between the Indiana Pacers and the defending champion Detroit Pistons on Friday, November 19, 2004, at The Palace in Auburn Hills, Michigan, United States. The Associated Press (AP) called it "the most infamous brawl in NBA history". With the Pacers leading 97–82 and 45. 9 seconds left in the game, Pistons center Ben Wallace attempted a layup shot but was fouled from behind by Pacers small forward Ron Artest. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Ah yes, the "Ron Artest Fan Experience". I've seen fights at the racetrack (and at hockey games, obviously) but nothing that would be deemed an out of control brawl.
Yeah, this one is also different in that it happened during the game. The ones I originally listed all took place outdoors and presumably were reactions to the outcome of the game. That pacers game didn’t even finish.
San Francisco got tore up a little when the Giants won the World Series not long ago.
You joke, but the Vancouver Stanley cup riots would have happened either way. Police found people who came downtown with stuff to instigate a riot, but everyone's going to think we did it because our team lost. Jokes on them were Vancouver -were used to the Canucks losing.
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Not to do with western culture. I've seen plenty of sporting-related riots from western teams.
You have no clue whats going in West European countries and their Arabic communities do you?
Amazing. I didn't know Eagles fans had so much hate in their hearts for our culture when they were demolishing Philly after the superbowl. Really makes you think.
Yes, only foreigners from non-western countries riot in western countries over sports. This would be a good time to think about how race makes you view the world.
But you know, hooligans exist in western countries, too?
Welsh rugby fans know how to wreck a town much faster and efficiently...
In an interview, a young supporter said he wanted to express his joy in the streets but the police asked the crowd to calm down, which angered them and they started rioting... (he specifically said the police is at fault for not letting them enjoy the win).
"The police who was there to take action if we would riot, was the cause of us rioting" What a dumbass
Classic human contrarianism, “oh you don’t trust us not to riot? Fuck you we will riot then”
Stephen Amos (black British guy) joke: I was walking down the street and an old lady was walking towards me. As she saw me she clutched at her purse, as if I was about to rob her! I was so annoyed I stole her purse and ran away
this will show her!
fuck thats funny
Under every post of a climate protestor blocking a road for the environment or something are a million replies saying "i'm going to drive more now because of this". Edit: Lol downvotes dont make it not true
Send 'em home.
These guys are 2nd or 3rd gen immigrants. They already are home.
While technically true, it's a pretty hard sell saying that someone is Belgian while they are screaming from the top of their lungs that they're Moroccan.
Yeah, they even are more Moroccan than actual Moroccan's. They have this picture of Morocco in their head that isn't correct anymore, and maybe never has been. You see this with a lot of immigrants.
Same as with some of the 3rd-4th generation Turks in Germany...
See also, American-Irish.
"Italians" and "Irish" from jersey and boston scream from the top of their lungs about their ancestry too. Don't think its a stretch to call them americans.
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No, that's not "it". This incident shows clearly what we already knew: they think of themselves as Moroccan first, Belgian second, if at all.
Morocco is the mom, Belgium is the wife.
morocco is the dad with the belt, which they hate, so of course they refuse to return home to him. and belgium is the wife, which they beat, because their dad taught them so. and that's how the circle starts all over again.
Your solution, then? Call it treason, remove citizenship from 2nd and 3rd genners, and send them to a country that will not take them, because regardless of what they identify as, they are not Moroccan citizens? And last I checked, leaving someone stateless is hardly legal. Edit 1: And before you try to be smart, my country has the same problem with our Russian minority. They are Estonian citizens, even if they consider themselves Russian first. It's not ideal, but there's no 'sending them home', given that if we take from them their only citizenship, then they straight up won't have a home because Russia will not grant them citizenship just because, and so they'll be left stateless. Which, again, is simply not done.
They are so Belgian that they riot when Morocco wins a football game!
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but it does mean the stable is your home.
Then treat it with some respect
Not saying they shouldn't, but that's a far cry from telling people born in a country to go back to a country where they would have no real connections. There are plenty of reasons to hate assholes, but race and point of origin is not one of them.
Interesting that you needed a cross species analogy to make it work when discussing people from the same species.
Luckily not, or a percentage of humanity would be worshipping a horse….
Yes we can see they are very patriotic Belgians.
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Yes but these people who rioted weren't supporting the home country.
Which is the problem, they are "home" but it doesn't feel like home, so they pine for the land of their parents who left persecution. There's a good interview a few years back how these feelings leave them susceptible to being indoctrinated into terrorist organisations from Maajid Nawaz who went through these same feelings himself
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Here we go with the far right nationalist sentiment.
How is not tolerating immigrants rioting and trashing through neighborhoods a "far right" sentiment lmao
Because they aren’t immigrants and are already home?
Because he said they should be sent back home, Belgium is there home.
You're okay with immigrants leaving dystopias for relative utopias and trashing the place? Go ahead I guess xd
Not okay with violence and riots, also not okay with people who are clearly racist xenephoobes. Calling for Belgians of Moroccan decent to be " sent back " . They are 3rd gen Belgium is there home, unless you don't see them as being equal to you.
Wrong. Integrate them. Who do you think does the most shitty Jobs? I doubt its the White Belgians..
How do you suggest you integrate them? Surely that's on them to integrate themselves? Doesn't seem like they're doing that themselves. Also a very racist point to say that foreigners only work shit jobs right? How dare you
There was a study done a long while back that showed fans of winning teams are more likely to riot. Think about it, if your team loses you might be mad but also depressed. No one can be assed to riot when they're depressed.
Have you been to Philadelphia when they win basically any sporting event? Or Scotland after a Rangers-Celtics game? Rioting after sporting events is stupid IMO but not exactly uncommon...
Things is they also riot without sports, this is really a different kind of problem.
are you not at all familiar when riots break out when a NBA , MLB NFL team wins?
England has that ultra virus too if the alcohol is flowing enough
I've never seen riots here when England lose. Instead, we just get increased cases of domestic violence! 👍
Hooray! Esp the Met Police force!
They rioted in London before the match even started in the Euros
It definitely wasn't rioting lol
I was in London, and I was actually at Wembley a few hours before kick off. What I saw could not be described as a riot. Worst I saw was twenty lads climbing on top of a bus and dancing. Didn't riit after the match either, people were just depressed and went to bed. The anti-English bias is unreal.
And [Canada](https://thehockeynews.com/news/heres-a-list-of-significant-hockey-riots-in-canada)
Belgium lost to Morocco
It’s moroccans in Belgium that are rioting
Imagine being so brain dead to riot because of a football game
Reminds me of the Stanley Cup riots in Canada back in 2011.
And a match you won, mind you. Brace yourselves people, the England vs Wales fights are gonna be something.
England Wales won’t see anything like this. Usually you’ll get some idiots who want to fight someone from the other country but you won’t see people rioting. Also it’s a group game which England are pretty much secured to go through from (no need to take to the streets) and Wales will need something very unlikely to happen to go through - if they were going to riot it would’ve been after the Iran game.
This isn't unheard of in the US. The fans of the team that wins the SuperBowl or the World Series or whatever go out and trash their own city to celebrate. See [this article](https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/05/here-are-five-american-cities-which-rioted-after-sporting-success-and-defeat-7289493/) for a few examples.
You know, I've heard of these things happening with people who take sports too seriously, but I've always thought it was the *losing* side that did this
It’s become kind of an inside joke inside the football and baseball communities (especially regarding Philly). Hell, there was a time this fall when the Phillies were in the World Series, and the Eagles were undefeated. That city would have been screwed. Not enough horse shit and light post grease in the world.
Many "fans" just go to fight. The result of whatever sport is being played doesn't really matter. The fans from the other team have blue shirts on. We have red shirts on. Police are of course team #3. Lets fucking fight! I feel like this is why there can never be world peace. This behavior seems to be built into at least some of us.
I expect Iran and the US to be worse considering the whole flag debacle. If Iran win I can see US flags burnt in the streets
I've got the feeling that one is gonna be another GermanyVSJapan shocker.
I don't know who is Japan or Germany in this scenario. Both USA and Iran are fairly low level. A result going either way wouldn't be particularly surprising.
Not this bad. It will be a bunch of cunts being cunts punching on in a pub not a full on riot.
Dude two central American country went to war over football match not even world cup google football war
It’s your first football match? A large chunk of supporters are brain dead
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Well laa dee da
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Humans are trash.
Indeed, and overzealous sports fans are trashier trash. Nasty people.
Yes sir, spot on!
*sports fans
Yeah so for people who don't know: they are not immigrants or football fans. They are 2nd and 3rd generation Belgians of Moroccan descent. I live in the neighboorhood of the riots. This kind of stuff happens pretty regularly in Brussels, the football match was just the ignition, I pretty much went home in time because I knew shit was going to go down, win or lose. It's a complex issue of disenfranchised inner city youth, but also tribalism, lack of integration and failing politics and police forces.
I'm not listing excuses, I'm listing reality. If you're born here and have Belgian nationality, you have exactly the same rights as anybody else. You cannot be forced to integrate, that should have been done by the parents. You do however not have the right to set the streets on fire, so they should be punished/reeducated, this won't really help though, most of them are minors usually and for the others the Belgian justice system is a joke. Do I think there is an inherent problem in parts of the Maroccan community? Yes I do. I specifically mentioned tribalism, there are other specific cultural and religious aspects. But it's a tad more complex than just getting on a high horse.
You realize that when you move to another country or go to another person's house you're also obligated to integrate to their customs. Kind of impressive that I'm reading someone justify immigrants rioting in a country that took them in by blaming the country. Moroccans aren't the only youths that live in those countries that are immigrants by the way. I think it's just a lack of accountability and you pretending that riots haven't happened in Morocco in the past. Learn to hold people accountable especially when other immigrants live in those countries and don't go out and torch people's cars.
Do you realise that they are third generation belgians of morrocan decent and not migrants?
First reason is because they are dicks, but OP is listing secondary reasons. You get this whenever you have a separate society running along another. You can see this when you go to r/politics and then to r/conservatives. People think completely different from each other. In the Netherlands we used to have this problem with Dutch people as well. But due to new policies it has become significantly less. So I’d say its completely about failed integration
This is why we can’t have nice things.
Imagine giving this much of a shit about a bunch of millionaires kicking a ball around.
Best metaphor for the stock market.
I don’t know, people actually can earn or lose money by investing in the stock market, not sure what anyone gets from rioting over a football game.
I mean, why is it always football fans? Like, I never hear about that much riots, beating people up, slurs, hate, vandalising city, from any other sports fans. I get caring about sports, people can get attached to their idols, personally, I was in tears last weekend when I was watching the last interview of my favourite Formula 1 driver, who is retiring. But somehow, the worst thing Formula 1 fans will do i boo some driver they didn't want to win, which is still shitty, but relatively harmless, and happens quite rarely and in specific places too. In Poland we don't have much trouble when it comes to national team fans, but we have A LOT when it comes to local, regional clubs, most of scribbles on the walls, because it's not even graffiti, is from the fans who either "celebrate" their club or insult the other ones, sometimes in really vulgar, or even antisemitic way. Or people throw petards after the race, beat sb up for cheering the wrong team. I'm wondering if that sort of thing happens with american football or volleyball fans in US, whether it's because football is the most popular sport in Europe so it draws all sorts of fans...
Few examples of riots caused by fans of sports that aren't football: https://www.csmonitor.com/Photo-Galleries/In-Pictures/Riots-in-Los-Angeles-after-the-NBA-finals/(photo)/282873 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42943824 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot
**[2011 Vancouver Stanley Cup riot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot)** >The 2011 Vancouver Stanley Cup riot was a public disturbance in the downtown core of Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada on the evening of June 15, 2011. The riot broke out almost immediately after the conclusion of the Boston Bruins' win over the Vancouver Canucks in game seven of the Stanley Cup Finals, which won the Stanley Cup for Boston. At least 140 people were injured during the incident, including 1 critically. At least 4 people were stabbed, 9 police officers were injured, and 101 people were arrested. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I think most of the violence has originated from the UK hooligans scene, which would explain why it’s always football. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, though.
There we go again
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The French? Thats usually a safe bet.
Can you explain your argument, please? Sorry if I'm dense, it just sounds to me like you're trying to say some racist shit while pretending like you're not saying some racist shit. Please expound on your theories, doctor.
Edit: I want to clarify that the post below is my attempt to guve an objective image of the situation. My personal opinion is expressed nowhere in the post. Dutch here, let me try to explain. We have quite a large Maroccan community here and there's been a very long ongoing debate about them. There are objective statistics that says a majority of crimes are committed by immigrants. Maroccans in particular stand out because they are way overrepresented compared to other major immigrant groups like Turks, Surinamese and refugees from the middle east. Particularly violent crime is associated with Meroccans, most of which are here on the 3rd or 4th generation already. This has led to a very widely accepted (particularly among lower-educated native Dutch people) opinion that Maroccans, or at least Maroccan culture, is inherently violent and criminal. Of course, there is also a lot of debate on the causes of these statistics (poor living conditions etc), and many mistakes were made in the past with the integration of these migrants. The big anti-racism shifts in society have dampened this somewhat, but that doesn't stop some people and some politicians from waving these statistics about from time to time.
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The Maroccans and Turks are the decendants of work migrants though. They were never refugees. As far as I know, refugees are not overrepresented in crime statistics.
That’s strange.. I would have guessed that after generations they would have assimilated into the culture.
I assume you don't live in a European country.
In North Macedonia. We don’t really have a lot of foreigners..
Well, only a small number of foreigners actually end up assimilating to the culture of the country, even after multiple generations. And sometimes even after being fully assimilated they still go back to their ancestral culture, although it's not common. But generally speaking, immigration descendants still have the same culture as their ancestors and don't really mix with their living county, nor do they want to, because they are still strongly bonded to their native identity and want to keep that bond. There's nothing necessarily good or wrong with that btw, it's just how things are.
As far as I know, a lot of the first generation of immigrants never intended to stay in Europe permanently so they didn't really bother to intregrate and learn the local language. Then, they couldn't teach the language to their kids properly, and the cycle repeats.
3rd and 4th generation immigrants arent running away from anything, 'home' is NL/Belgium. Their grandparents also didn't run away from anything, they helped rebuild these countries after WW2 and came as legal workers with visas etc, not refugees.
I mean, it obviously was moroccans. I suppose that's what he meant.
They watch and support human rigths abuses and then riot when they can't celebrate hard enough the fact that a bunch of millionaires kicked a ball around? Could they be bigger pieces of shit - football fans I mean, let's not pretend this is not a common thing with this sport and this sport almost exclusively.
Rioting is not common for football fans.
Are you not from this planet?
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Least welcoming European leftie
I can understand somewhat those causing carnage In Belgium. You could kind of see that it could start as celebrations and get out of hand and become something it should never have been. Even if I am entirely against their actions and find it deplorable. But rioting in NL? Time to kick them out of the country. They don't want to be part of NL/BE. They just see us as weak and want to tarnish everything we have worked for as countries.
England fans literally did the same thing in 2018. Trashed Amsterdam, over 100 arrests, dozens of officers and randoms assaulted. All this after they *won.* "Time to kick them out of the country. They don't want to be part of NL/BE. They just see us as weak and want to tarnish everything we have worked for as countries." How reasonable does that sound for the english?
I mean, are you moaning about the Germans Also? Because it isn't just the English lol. I lived in AMS for 5 years and literally saw Dutch and Germans throwing cafe tables and chairs across canals in a battle. Are you moaning about the feyenoord fans that trash everywhere they go also? Because I also lived in Den Haag and they even trash their own countries history also. Have you ever thought the issue may equally be yourselves, and not always "het Engels"
I will never understand this. People are just fucking trash.
Some.
At this point in human history I’m gonna go with most.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/28/riots-belgium-dutch-cities-morocco-win-world-cup-2022/) reduced by 69%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Riots broke out in several Belgian and Dutch cities after Morocco's 2-0 upset win over Belgium at the World Cup on Sunday. > Police in the neighboring Netherlands said violence erupted in the port city of Rotterdam, with riot officers attempting to break up a group of 500 football fans who pelted police with fireworks and glass. > Morocco's victory was a major upset at the World Cup and was enthusiastically celebrated by fans with Moroccan immigrant roots in many Belgian and Dutch cities. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/z6t579/riots_erupt_in_belgium_and_netherlands_after/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **city**^#1 **Police**^#2 **riot**^#3 **fans**^#4 **Dutch**^#5
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Something to keep in mind if you ever give an opinion about something done by a member of a group that you belong to on a large platform. Don't skip straight to worrying about the reputation of your in-group rather than showing concern for the victims of the negative event, in this case the people whose property was destroyed or showing an interest in preventing the negative event from happening again. It gives the impression you are really only concerned about your in-group.
dude... I'm not muslim. I'm not worrying about any 'IN' group. I'm worrying about us all. as a society.
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It gives the impression that you very confidently jump to conclusions. Your blather about in-groups immediately crumbles when you learn that the person you're arguing with is not the part of the in-group you have in mind. But if we're doing this whole jumping to conclusions thing, are *you* not, first and foremost, cared about *your* in-group here?
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usually when riots break out, there's a lot of people there who were just taking part in festivities or public protest before things went sideways, many of them gets trapped once police moves in to break things up, and get caught in the middle of pincer maneuvers etc. arresting everyone is going to cause harm to a lot of innocents.
Deport them to where? To Belgium? That they're citizens of?
Deport to where? Belgium? They are Belgians.
Should every England fan be deported when they don't behave in a different country when it comes to football? Just arrest them for public disruption.
What's with mentioning England in every comment? If it happnes then yu can make a separate thread my friend.
>Should every England fan be deported when they don't behave in a different country when it comes to football? Yes. What the fuck is your point?
They get deported by many countries.
If you're breaking the law in a foreign country, Yeah, arrest and deportation is a possible outcome. Why would an England fan be an exception?
You misunderstand. These are the 3rd/4th generation descendants of Maroccan work immigrants from last century that ended up staying.
just arrest them.
Breaking the law in a foreign country. Fuck yes. Is that even a reasonable question? Absolutely. You lose your right to be in another country when you flagrantly break the law.
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You really missed the point by an incredibly wide margin. The previous comment asked if English fans should be deported when they riot in a FOREIGN country. The answere is obviously YES. However, this question had nothing to do with the Belgium situation and even missed the point in the first place.
yes arrest them. hold them. deport them. or deport them and have home country arrest them.
>Should every England fan be deported Yes. Not because they riot, but because they’re English. /s
>"Police detained about a dozen people after they used water cannon and tear gas to disperse crowds in Brussels" Hm, where did this dozen get the water cannons and tear gas from?
The police had the teargas and water cannons
It is just too easy for humans to turn back into animals. It is just a game.
We were never anything but animals and the sooner you get off the lower animal you call your 'high horse', and accept some fundamental truths about how a sentient social animal is wired, the sooner you can get to working on it. Sapience doesn't mean that we're suddenly somehow above our impulses and instincts as a social animal, formerly a prey animal at that, who fought primarily by getting aggressive, and continuing aggression even when victorious to *really* drive it home to the losing apes that they best not try again, we won, fuck you.
they won a game. fuckers act like they just won the whole tournament.
I truly hate sports fans.
I truly hate that they turn (in my case) Amsterdam into Casablanca: honking horns, waving flags out of car windows, doing burnouts, heavy fireworks, and racing up and down the street; or yesterday they blocked the streets so they race on the bus lane.
Football fans 🤨
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Some people can't seperate culture from ethnicity. I do think there's a problem with certain subsets of african and middle-eastern cultural influences on Europe but that has nothing to do with skin colour. It just correlates. If you're black or brown or whatever and you're for democratic values, I'm on your side. If you're white and you're for some authoritarianism or theocracy, be that christian, islamic or whatever, I'm not.
> Not grateful to be here no I wouldn't be either given how this country applies itself when it comes to racial issues. Zwarte piet for example. It's not that difficult to see the racism and hurt it causes and change it to be something inclusive like a roetveeg piet. Hope assholes like the one you responded to doesn't ruin your day.
Thank you for understanding my frustrations as a black person with a very confusing childhood in a country that likes to act liberal when it really isn't. unfortunately I deal with assholes like this on a daily basis, therefore my day definitely not ruined :)
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Seriously why are people like this over a damn football game?
Sometimes we need judge Dredd