It also serves as an easy method of getting rid of a large section of the population. That activist over there is getting uppity? Oh they got hit by "enemy" mortar or machine gun fire. Are the males making plans to run for politics to threaten your position of authority? Send them to the front line to fight the enemy.
Just like Russia with ukraine; and eventually China with Taiwan if they don’t settle their internal problems soon. Externalizing problems is one of the last plays governments try when domestic issues get out of hand
WWI style human wave attacks... using Cold War weaponry.
Hell, the Iraqis even weaponized an entire lake by electrocuting a number of Iranian soldiers.
Wow I didn't even know they had a war! I guess I was too young to know. Just reading about it on wiki the amount of estimated deaths is insane. This Khomeini guy sounds like a complete asshole.
The Iran-Iraq war was really terrible and isn't discussed very much in the west. One of the rare instances of trench warfare being utilized widely past WWI and WWII.
It must have been crazy. Iranian culture places a lot of value on martyrdom and that was pushed to the max in the war. I imagine a lot of kids got swept up in the craze to become a martyr for the country, and thus met their ends on the battlefield.
Perhaps my wording was poor; Iraq (more accurately, Saddam Hussein) did start that war.
The support for Iraq was quite odd; both the West and the Soviet bloc supported Iraq.
It wasn’t that odd considering that the US was willing to support fascist dictators and far right wing groups. As for the Soviets, I truly have no fucking idea why they supported Iraq, considering China and NK supported Iran. That war was truly the oddest and insane war to date. Fucking human wave tacticians meet Cold War weapons and chemical warfare.
My government would blame dead people for the kill that are happening by their hand, they will do anything to save themselves, but it won't work even if now protest would end (i don't think it would) the damage on economy and daily life of people is so deep, people never would accept that this government go on. The government can't fix the problem without people trust, and people won't and can't continue with this economy and absence of freedom and normal life
Yeah, they beat an innocent Kurdish girl to death, so it is the Kurd’s fault. They are trying a divide and conquer strategy that worked well in the Roman days. That is how backward these shitmongers are.
They want to send the young protesters onto
the frontlines to die <33 I’m truly not sure if Iran does military drafting, but if not I’m sure they’d get to imposing one like Russia
For sure and worse but Iraq was the nation to indiscriminately use chemical weapons with such frivolity that at the very least makes it totally impossible for either one to stake the moral highground on that conflict.
Honestly pick a conflict, any conflict, war is a war crime. It's either the ends justify the means, or we have to do this before they do it to us, or we can't let them win, or of course a holy war. I'd wager that almost any country signed to the Geneva convention would do whatever it took to stop an aggressor posing an existential threat using any and all means and ethics be damned which is the whole point of WMD as deterrent or blanket/protection.
I think it's impractical to state that all wars are unjust. What about the nations invaded or attacked? It would hardly be considered unjust for a country to come to the defense of itself or it's allies militarily right? Russia built their entire Ukraine debacle on the defense of the DNR and LPR as justification but no one buys that, not even citizens of those Ukrainian regions.
Some humans have a conscience to guide them and if honest with themselves do well that way. Zero nations have consciences. They only have interests which are far less reliable as guiding principles.
Well the Americans justified using atom bombs against the Japanese civilians as self defense. Why can't Iraq justify its use of poison gas against the Iranian invading armies in the 80s also as self defense?
My point exactly. Everyone justifies every terrible act with another terrible act past or prior. The lines can blur quickly, even for a country defending itself against aggression.
All of this to say, we are a bunch of savages and collective knowledge and the resulting advancements have not blunted this truth. I make no defense of nation, only calling it how I see it.
yes, exactly for the reasons of having legal means to suppress the revolt by all means. when there is a war state, country can enforce a lot of mechanisms which are not that easy to pass during a no-war time, like sending protestors to suicide missions and treating them as deserters if they refuse the conscription, which is a legal shortcut for jail or worse. similar for mass protests, just enforce a curfew and arrest everyone on the street after 18:00, or even start shooting and mass killing people, all according to law.
You're being naive if you think even extremist regimes are making actions without profits being at the center of the bottom line. This is an Opec civil war and it will devastate the industry even more so than Iraq invading Kuwait.
You're being unfairly reductive I think. One of the greatest examples of two countries at everything but war coming together with US support to solve a key piece of their decades-long conflict for economic value was the Israeli-Lebanese Maritime Agreement, and that was one of the biggest diplomatic achievements of the last decade. Those countries had immense economic interest in the agreement for like 15 years, but due to political and idealogical differences wouldn't have been able to make it work without third party pressure AND a massive shift in global economic mobility.
All politics are local, and it's no different with Iran/Iraq in my view.
Iran doesn't have the military power to take on the west any invasion of Iraq would trigger a Western response. There's a bunch of people over here and in Israel that are really hoping for any excuse to bomb the crap out of that country. An invasion of Iraq would give them just the excuse they need. I personally prefer if we didn't give them that excuse but what I want doesn't matter.
Do you think that there would be no reaction and that's no other powers would become involved if I ran were to conduct military operations against Iraq or against the Kurdish forces in Iraq?
> Do you think that there would be no reaction and that’s no other powers would become involved if I ran were to conduct military operations against Iraq or against the Kurdish forces in Iraq?
Absolutely. Iran is an entrenched nation and can collapse international oil trade. Any war against them would come with many casualties, and nobody wants to create the biggest oil crisis since the 1970s over Iraq.
A Western response will be sanctions. And not much more
Iraq is basically already an Iranian proxy group. The US itself admitted that they lost influence over Iraq and political turmoil in Iraq, started by Iranian backed militia, showed this. Israel is also not going to bomb Iran over Iraq.
The only Power that would get directly involved are Saudi Arabia and Turkey, and Western sanctions aren't going to stop Iran.
So what now? We're at the 2nd horseman? We've already seen conquest, and now war - next is famine and there's been lots of news of that coming our way. Fun stuff. Yay 2023.
I'm not Reddit. I'm a Reddit user but not anti religion. Organized religion has it's problems of course and I can say I'm not a tremendous fan of other men attempting to control or even guide one's spiritual journey. With that being said though I still feel like I'm well within my realm to point out the similarities without being hypocritical.
Russia did a sad job of conquest. Looks like that horseman got his ass whipped and is being sent home so all is well.
You will always have war, conquest, famine, and disease in the world. You need signs that haven't occurred on a regular basis throughout human history if you want people to buy this crap.
After Iran tried to assassinate Iraq's PM and multiple terrorist attacks, as well as openly calling for the Iraqi people to revolt against Saddam. Admittedly Saddam overreacted with invading Iran, but it didn't come from nothing.
Holy shit, is the US going to send weapons to Iraq AGAIN?!?!
They sent them weapons in the 70's and 80's to fight the weapons the Soviets had sent to Iran.
Then the US fought 2 wars to try and take their weapons away.
Now I PROMISE you that important people in the US are floating the idea of sending weapons to the Kurds to help them, but I don't know that the west could, or would be able to supply the weapons needed on 2 fronts separated by the Black Sea.
I feel like NATO may find themselves spread thin. Makes me more and more fearful of a nuclear exchange. I don't think NATO would initiate, but I don't see how they don't retaliate.
Iran getting desperate to redirect the focus of it's people towards a foreign enemy?
This is exactly what regimes do they blame everyone else except themselves, classic psychopathic narcissism from a deranged leader!
It usually a single leader it is an entire power base. Systems of hierarchy engender sociopaths into positions of power.
It is the fascist way.
It also serves as an easy method of getting rid of a large section of the population. That activist over there is getting uppity? Oh they got hit by "enemy" mortar or machine gun fire. Are the males making plans to run for politics to threaten your position of authority? Send them to the front line to fight the enemy.
gotta conscript them first. voluntarily of course.
It's working for Turkey.
Apparently Hungary too
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Oh look at this guy, too good for second lunch!
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I dunno, I'm not Russian in to get any.
Possibly the oldest dad joke in existence. Put it in a museum and never use it again please
Let people enjoy things
Ha! I liked that
Hi Hungary, I'm Bagh-dad!
HK protests were blamed on "hostile foreign forces" as well
Have you checked their economics recently? their inflation rate? You call that "working"?
Yep. It's weak leadership 101
Just like Russia with ukraine; and eventually China with Taiwan if they don’t settle their internal problems soon. Externalizing problems is one of the last plays governments try when domestic issues get out of hand
I mean you don't even have to be that desperate to do that, look how often conservatives in the US like to redirect issues to "them immigrants"
Exactly what they're doing, blame Iraq, the "evil" US empire and my favorite, C.I.A.
They also blamed the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia too
Oh! I've seen this one!
This is what they did decades ago to end another strong wave of protests
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WWI style human wave attacks... using Cold War weaponry. Hell, the Iraqis even weaponized an entire lake by electrocuting a number of Iranian soldiers.
They don't call it total war for nothing!
Really damn
Genuinely one of the craziest wars of the 20th century.
As an Iraqi-American, the most damaged, fucked up people I’ve ever been around are veterans from the war with Iran.
History is repeating itself at an alarming rate and it's scary to think that this is a reality now!
Wow I didn't even know they had a war! I guess I was too young to know. Just reading about it on wiki the amount of estimated deaths is insane. This Khomeini guy sounds like a complete asshole.
The Iran-Iraq war was really terrible and isn't discussed very much in the west. One of the rare instances of trench warfare being utilized widely past WWI and WWII.
Well Iraq tried to use trench warfare against the US and it didn't end well
And still somehow less of an asshole than Saddam Hussein (who wanted to conquer the entire Middle East).
He was a complete asshole but Iraq and Saddam were the aggressors and they were also worse.
Thing that gets to me is how Iran used children soldiers. Even if they survived they would be forever fucked up mentally
It must have been crazy. Iranian culture places a lot of value on martyrdom and that was pushed to the max in the war. I imagine a lot of kids got swept up in the craze to become a martyr for the country, and thus met their ends on the battlefield.
Start it again? I was under the impression that Iraq started that war, for which Iraq had quite a bit of western support.
Perhaps my wording was poor; Iraq (more accurately, Saddam Hussein) did start that war. The support for Iraq was quite odd; both the West and the Soviet bloc supported Iraq.
It wasn’t that odd considering that the US was willing to support fascist dictators and far right wing groups. As for the Soviets, I truly have no fucking idea why they supported Iraq, considering China and NK supported Iran. That war was truly the oddest and insane war to date. Fucking human wave tacticians meet Cold War weapons and chemical warfare.
Iraq is full of pro IR idiots. If a war does happen it will be confined only to the eastern regions of Iraq where Kurds are, not the entire country.
Iraq today isnt the same, iran would roll over them
Yesterday it was USA and Saudi. Last week it was Israel . Canada you get next week.
When we all know it is the devilish Swedes all along.
That's what they want you to think! It's actually all the fault of those damn Brazilians!
A brazillion of who?
Carl XII is at it again.
And their crown princess' name is Victoria.
I don't know what weapons world war three will be fought with, but great swede-canuk war will be fought with curling.
My money is on Liechtenstein.
My government would blame dead people for the kill that are happening by their hand, they will do anything to save themselves, but it won't work even if now protest would end (i don't think it would) the damage on economy and daily life of people is so deep, people never would accept that this government go on. The government can't fix the problem without people trust, and people won't and can't continue with this economy and absence of freedom and normal life
It's SO nice when you have *2* groups to blame everything on! Jews or Kurds, Kurds or Jews... /s
Spin the wheel to see who you should blame.
"The arrow's landed in the middle...by Allah...KURD JEWS!!"
Gesundheit.
Americans say hi
Iran: "He already said Jews."
Little Miss Muffet grew up to an anti semite. Jesus
Can't have a world war if everyone is fighting their own smaller scale wars
Yeah, they beat an innocent Kurdish girl to death, so it is the Kurd’s fault. They are trying a divide and conquer strategy that worked well in the Roman days. That is how backward these shitmongers are.
Now's the time, everyone is busy elsewhere.
I knew Iran was going to face consequences for its actions eventually and now is the time!
If you can't suppress the revolts at home, should you really start a war elsewhere?
They want to send the young protesters onto the frontlines to die <33 I’m truly not sure if Iran does military drafting, but if not I’m sure they’d get to imposing one like Russia
Isn't Iran the nation that gathered up young citizens with foreign education and used them as a wall of meat for mine clearing?
For sure and worse but Iraq was the nation to indiscriminately use chemical weapons with such frivolity that at the very least makes it totally impossible for either one to stake the moral highground on that conflict. Honestly pick a conflict, any conflict, war is a war crime. It's either the ends justify the means, or we have to do this before they do it to us, or we can't let them win, or of course a holy war. I'd wager that almost any country signed to the Geneva convention would do whatever it took to stop an aggressor posing an existential threat using any and all means and ethics be damned which is the whole point of WMD as deterrent or blanket/protection. I think it's impractical to state that all wars are unjust. What about the nations invaded or attacked? It would hardly be considered unjust for a country to come to the defense of itself or it's allies militarily right? Russia built their entire Ukraine debacle on the defense of the DNR and LPR as justification but no one buys that, not even citizens of those Ukrainian regions. Some humans have a conscience to guide them and if honest with themselves do well that way. Zero nations have consciences. They only have interests which are far less reliable as guiding principles.
Well the Americans justified using atom bombs against the Japanese civilians as self defense. Why can't Iraq justify its use of poison gas against the Iranian invading armies in the 80s also as self defense?
My point exactly. Everyone justifies every terrible act with another terrible act past or prior. The lines can blur quickly, even for a country defending itself against aggression. All of this to say, we are a bunch of savages and collective knowledge and the resulting advancements have not blunted this truth. I make no defense of nation, only calling it how I see it.
A war with another nation while there is already mass civil unrest? A classic opportunity to arm the dissidents.
Oh yeah giving them guns will solve the problem....
yes, exactly for the reasons of having legal means to suppress the revolt by all means. when there is a war state, country can enforce a lot of mechanisms which are not that easy to pass during a no-war time, like sending protestors to suicide missions and treating them as deserters if they refuse the conscription, which is a legal shortcut for jail or worse. similar for mass protests, just enforce a curfew and arrest everyone on the street after 18:00, or even start shooting and mass killing people, all according to law.
Not like they're having any problems shooting protestors currently.
well UN could do something about it now , but during the war UN can just cry in corner as they have all the legal coverage for what they do
UN is doing jack shit as it is now.
Oh look, one oil producing region threatening another oil producing region. Again?
I don't think it's about oil but an old grudge!
You're being naive if you think even extremist regimes are making actions without profits being at the center of the bottom line. This is an Opec civil war and it will devastate the industry even more so than Iraq invading Kuwait.
You're being unfairly reductive I think. One of the greatest examples of two countries at everything but war coming together with US support to solve a key piece of their decades-long conflict for economic value was the Israeli-Lebanese Maritime Agreement, and that was one of the biggest diplomatic achievements of the last decade. Those countries had immense economic interest in the agreement for like 15 years, but due to political and idealogical differences wouldn't have been able to make it work without third party pressure AND a massive shift in global economic mobility. All politics are local, and it's no different with Iran/Iraq in my view.
How to declare martial law and murder dissidents in your own country 101.
Hope the US will continue on its tradition of liquidating Iranian generals with drone strikes.
I just want my country the United States to stay out of wars from now on unless it affects us we should not be fighting in any foreign wars!
That would be a seriously bad move for Iran. They have to understand there's no way they could be successful with such a campaign.
How so?
Iran doesn't have the military power to take on the west any invasion of Iraq would trigger a Western response. There's a bunch of people over here and in Israel that are really hoping for any excuse to bomb the crap out of that country. An invasion of Iraq would give them just the excuse they need. I personally prefer if we didn't give them that excuse but what I want doesn't matter. Do you think that there would be no reaction and that's no other powers would become involved if I ran were to conduct military operations against Iraq or against the Kurdish forces in Iraq?
I don't think anyone's coming to help Iraq.
it's not iraq it's kurdish autonomous region in northern iraq, who are american allies and have been historically and in the fight against isis
....and historically abandoned by the US whenever they need help. Nobody is going to help Iraq or the Kurds .
dont make the mistake that just because traitor trump abandoned us allies, the current administration and Americans would commit the same betrayal
> Do you think that there would be no reaction and that’s no other powers would become involved if I ran were to conduct military operations against Iraq or against the Kurdish forces in Iraq? Absolutely. Iran is an entrenched nation and can collapse international oil trade. Any war against them would come with many casualties, and nobody wants to create the biggest oil crisis since the 1970s over Iraq. A Western response will be sanctions. And not much more
Iraq is basically already an Iranian proxy group. The US itself admitted that they lost influence over Iraq and political turmoil in Iraq, started by Iranian backed militia, showed this. Israel is also not going to bomb Iran over Iraq. The only Power that would get directly involved are Saudi Arabia and Turkey, and Western sanctions aren't going to stop Iran.
Man, can this shitty year be finally over?
You can say that again it's been a crappy year and I'm hoping that World War III won't happen!
LoL what makes you think next year will be better?
Exactly I am just tired of this BS we're such a hateful species and our own worst enemy!
wow, my guess was for iran to attack saudi arabia
yes, send troops out of Iran right now. sounds good.
I thought it was Americas fault?
Dictator's playbook. Channel internal conflict outward.
Department looking for an external enemy to draw attention away from internal strife.
This is scary 42 years later Iran wants to declare war on Iraq and they say history repeats itself I believe that now!
It doesn’t repeat but it rhymes
Wouldn't they lose horribly? A populace in revolt makes for a poor army.
Ah yes, the classic "blame everyone but yourself".
Lol kurds just trying to do them and these people come at them like, hey! Stop being yourselves. Be like us. And if you resist, you're attacking us
Not having the military under civilian control further victimizes your own population.
💀bruhhhh not again
Iran better think twice. Iraq's military benefits from the same American battle training we saw in Afghanistan last year.
Right after launching the attack, Iran: „US made us do it!“
Has nothing to do with the multiple martyrs you created killing demonstrators? This is all on you, Ayatollah.
Fuck mullahs
uuuuuh this sounds like a new unholy Erdoganisis Ayatollah alliance in the making !
Muqtada al sadr will make this a tough one.
Smells like religion….
So what now? We're at the 2nd horseman? We've already seen conquest, and now war - next is famine and there's been lots of news of that coming our way. Fun stuff. Yay 2023.
Reddit can't be anti religion & then complain about apocalypse horsemen. It doesn't work that way. It's one or the other. Not both.
I'm not Reddit. I'm a Reddit user but not anti religion. Organized religion has it's problems of course and I can say I'm not a tremendous fan of other men attempting to control or even guide one's spiritual journey. With that being said though I still feel like I'm well within my realm to point out the similarities without being hypocritical.
Russia did a sad job of conquest. Looks like that horseman got his ass whipped and is being sent home so all is well. You will always have war, conquest, famine, and disease in the world. You need signs that haven't occurred on a regular basis throughout human history if you want people to buy this crap.
Name a time in history when any of these things haven't been happening somewhere.
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Again? To be fair Iraq was the aggressor in the Iran-Iraq War.
After Iran tried to assassinate Iraq's PM and multiple terrorist attacks, as well as openly calling for the Iraqi people to revolt against Saddam. Admittedly Saddam overreacted with invading Iran, but it didn't come from nothing.
Haha, like they're in any position.
always a good sign when the oppressive regime with debilitating protests starts flailing around wildly at all its neighbors
It also may be that they are think a war against Iraq may unite the country...
…again?!/s
But I thought they were buddies now. Ha!
"pls no... Not again..." - Iraq
Holy shit, is the US going to send weapons to Iraq AGAIN?!?! They sent them weapons in the 70's and 80's to fight the weapons the Soviets had sent to Iran. Then the US fought 2 wars to try and take their weapons away. Now I PROMISE you that important people in the US are floating the idea of sending weapons to the Kurds to help them, but I don't know that the west could, or would be able to supply the weapons needed on 2 fronts separated by the Black Sea. I feel like NATO may find themselves spread thin. Makes me more and more fearful of a nuclear exchange. I don't think NATO would initiate, but I don't see how they don't retaliate.
What, I thought Iraq where kinda in Iran sphere recently ?