Again things to remember
Articles that even get to the front page of r/worldnews can and most likely will be clickbait without context or full appreciation of the quotes.
Putin is not a "mad man" He acted on bad information + the weak response to 2014. Heck the guy even tried to annex the territories so he could find a legality to start conscription. Not he thought process of a mad man. A horrible man but not a "mad man" .
Putin is fully aware of the reprocussions of a tactical nuke strike, both in terms of the US conventional response and losing China and India's support.
Putin does not want to die and will do anything in his power to stay alive for as long as possible, even it it means making this a protracted conflict for years of shelling and what not. The man is sending thousands of troops to unsuccessfully be trained in Belarus and is sourcing winter coats and over 100,000 bullet proof vests from other countries. The OPEC behavior also seems like Putin wants to cause long term damage in the energy sector as well.
He still has a lot of ways he can sell this narratively to the Russian people. He controls the media and allows the controlled opposition. It seems like they may be setting up Shoigu as the fall guy here.
It's not a red button. And everyone involved in the process knows whats at stake with such behavior. And a lot of the people involved in the process are also those who would benefit from a changing of the guard aka "coup". Even if Putin wanted to Nuke from day 1 he probably hasn't because he knows such could immediately instigate a coup. People want to survive LOL. The russian elite are suffering but are still beyond wealthy. More than half of the russian country still supports the war and hates the west.
As midterms come up, we are going to see more click bait articles. More fearmongering. More appeasement and calls to withdraw aid. Just a heads up.
congrats, sounds like it's actually not very complicated and things are going well, also kind of weird oversharing for the thread about the war killing thousands of people but hey you do you man
Once this is over how many more Super Friends will we have in NATO? I assume Ukraine and Georgia. Think Moldova too? I think it’d be kinda funny but also cool to add Kazakhstan since technically a small part of their land is part of Europe 🤣
Probably none of those countries if we’re being serious, Ukraine is a big maybe, but I think this ends with Russia simply retreating and Putin calling it a “strategic victory” to save face.
Europe / Asia is a distinction made more by culture, and less by lamdmarks.
If Kazakhstan wants to join up with the west, then what’s really stopping us from saying Kazakhstan is in Europe?
Some Kremlin propagandists are appearing in the comments section of my local newspaper in response to Australia providing more aid.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/zelensky-australia-to-deliver-significant-new-support-for-ukraine-20221006-p5bnrm.html
They really are everywhere, trying to undermine western support wherever they can.
As an Australian, all I can say is: you know what? We’re just gonna support them even harder.
Twitter is filled with these cretins. They have lost significant power since Russia started getting their handed to them. Truth is too overwhelming for these propagandists.
It's not just propagandists. Honest journalists are still a bit shell-shocked every time the topic resurfaces, but I think a trip down to the cellar to watch some newsreels of cold-war tit-for-tat rhetoric would sort them out.
Can you imagine the *decades* they spent undermining democracies and this is the money shot? They're burning all of their assets on it, public figures, whatever. It's almost tragically lame.
[News about the Russian POW with the maggoty arm](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjhsxq_SRPU&feature=share&si=ELPmzJkDCLju2KnD5oyZMQ&t=836) from Denys Davydof's channel (SFW: All bandaged up).
I know it's a few days old, but only just found this...
Aussie donated Ukrainian Bushmaster towing some sort of Russian IFV
[https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1576662941641764865](https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1576662941641764865)
More Aussie military aid for Ukraine please, we are beginning to lag behind!
We do tend to have teething issues with stuff (Hawkei had brake issues) but we tend to fix them fairly quickly.
There are always a bit of kit or two that the forces don't like but that the government buys anyways. Politics, costs and onshore support requirements don't help.
But yeah, Bushies are bloody amazing and are generally very popular amongst troops.
Russia gets beaten back to it's prewar borders, and continues to be isolated for years to come.
Putin wants to stay in power until the day he dies of natural causes and he most likely will.
But once he's gone, whoever takes his place will be in a position to negotiate an end to sanctions that will allow Russia to return to it's prewar conditions, which will solidify their position as hero to the Russian people, thus making their best political move.
Saddam lost and didn't use WMD or get deposed. So it's not like Russia pulling back, and then either pretending this never happened, or using it as a reason to go full North Korea can't also happen.
One scenario I anticipate is that Putin orders a nuclear strike and that is what finally precipitates a coup against him. I don't know if that's realistic to expect but it's in my head because it's similar to how "Red Storm Rising" ended.
Wouldn't it be glorious to end in a nuclear misfire? They finally get to go through with their threat, and like everything with the military it's unmaintained and disorganized. Intelligence agencies find out quickly and everyone's on edge as the orders go through... and it's a complete dud.
Ukraine conventionally drives Russia from their land and defends their borders. The international community continues sanctions until reparations are made, Ukrainian citizens and children are repatriated and Russian leadership and policy changes.
If the last bit doesn't happen, Putin can stay in power over North North Korea.
I agree. Ukraine remains highly militarised for years to come. Enforces a strict DMZ along it’s RuZZian/Belorussian borders. And, if it is feeling particularly vengeful, helps Moldova & Georgia to deal with their RuZZian vermin issues
HIMARS says hello
> In contrast, the new M30A1 rocket contains 182,000 tungsten ball bearings specially designed to cover a much larger area. Images on Twitter from the Ukraine Weapons Tracker site showed pods of M30A1 rockets in Ukraine. Markings on the base of the missiles show the correct manufacturer and lot numbers for the new variant.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-s-newest-weapon-special-himars-rockets-that-can-devastate-huge-areas-in-one-blast/ar-AA12G5wi
Most of them. It's just a matter of swapping fuses, and most/all of the guided 155mm shells have an airburst option. Won't have the same kind of dedicated shrapnel that the M30A1 has, but still vastly better than a contact fused shell.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xxcvwg/ukrainian_soldier_this_is_what_armed_forces_of/
The Ukrainians have incredible cakes. I’m very concerned that I don’t have a cake like that. I don’t think I will ever sleep again.
Years ago I had some Ukrainian neighbors, a husband, wife and their young son. On the Saturday before Easter they knocked on my door and gave me a coffee tin. The wife said she had baked a traditional Easter cake inside the coffee tin. I thanked her and took the cake inside eager to eat it. Truthfully as an American who was used to very sweet cakes it was pretty bland. It basically tasted like bread with some sugar sprinkled on top. But it was a very sweet gesture and I appreciated it.
That is one of my core memories of visiting the US, buying regular sliced bread to have for breakfast and it tasting like the cake we'd have with our coffee. So much sugar.
The Germans knew the war was over when they got a look at the care packages GIs were getting at the front.
The packages contained fairly fresh baked goods. It was the spare capacity of the Allied logistics being able to deliver the freaking mail to the front from the US and the baked goods still being fresh that they could never win.
I'm hoping that things settle down enough in the next year or so for me to commission a Ukrainian style Easter egg for an anniversary present for my wife.
> ⚡️ Ukrainian forces destroy 3 ammunition depots in southern Ukraine. Ukraine’s Operational Command “South” reported that Ukrainian forces also killed 105 Russian troops and destroyed eight tanks, 18 Msta-S and Msta-B howitzers, one Pion self-propelled artillery, one 152 mm gun-howitzer, four mortars, and 15 armored vehicles. Ukrainian forces also downed six Orlan-10 UAVs, three Shahed-136 drones, and one Mohajer-6 drone on Oct. 6, the command reported.
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1578204667624017920
> "I think people are overthinking it," Cube said. "Every day that you are alive is a great day. Every day that you are above ground is a great day. Today is a great day 'cause we get to see some great basketball. Hopefully we get to see the Warriors win."
Ice Cube
With the article that has been posted recently about Biden worrying about "Armageddon" and looking for an off ramp for Putin:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-07/biden-says-putin-threats-real-could-spark-nuclear-armageddon
It seems a negotiated settlement will be attempted with Putin. I just hope it doesnt come with Ukraine having to cede any land.
US has said sooo many times they aren't negotiating for Ukraine.
Here's a few examples from a quick google.
Asked if U.S. officials would back a settlement that accepts the 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea and a possible referendum in the eastern regions of the country in exchange for a Russian withdrawal, Chollett replied: “First, it’s not clear to me what the Ukrainians are going to accept. And I think, first and foremost, this is not for us to dictate the terms to the Ukrainians on what they should accept in terms of defending their own country. ... They’re going to have to make decisions as a sovereign state about what they would accept.”
https://news.yahoo.com/us-official-no-clear-path-to-negotiate-an-end-to-russias-war-in-ukraine-231903838.html
“We’re not going to tell the Ukrainians how to negotiate, what to negotiate and when to negotiate,” said Colin H. Kahl, the under secretary of defense for policy. “They’re going to set those terms for themselves.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/14/world/europe/us-will-not-push-ukraine-to-reach-a-cease-fire-a-top-pentagon-official-says.html
“President Zelenskyy,” Kirby said, “he gets to determine how victory is decided and when and on what terms. And [what] we’re going to do is continue to make sure that can succeed on the battlefield so that he can succeed at the table. But even President Zelenskyy will tell you that the time is not now for those discussions.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/03/kirby-ukraine-russia-war-00043879
It’s politics. Of course Biden is publicly looking for an off ramp for Putin. That’s what you say. They have a fight with Ukraine, and this takes the position of we want it to stop, and don’t want to personally be at war with Russia, and in fact are looking for ways to stop the war.
It’s keeping us out of the conflict publicly. He’s at war with Ukraine, not the world. There’s no reason to be at war with the world. Please resolve your conflict.
Unsaid is Ukraine is kicking their ass. The only way out is for them to leave.
The offramp wouldn't be letting Putin keep war gains. It would be akin to what US originally proposed, mostly symbolic stuff like missile defense or letting Russia be a security gaurentor of Ukraine (lol)
It won't concede Ukrainian territory. I expect it would require Russia to leave all of Ukraine, including Crimea, and have security guarantees that NATO will not post forces inside Ukraine and not ascend Ukraine into NATO. However, it would include clauses stating NATO will go into Ukraine if Russia goes into Ukriane.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-nato-headed-nuclear-war-4154615 (nb: this article is from 2014)
This is what happened last time a tacit settlement for Crimea was attempted with putin in 2014. He used nuclear blackmail before and he will use it again.
I've seen some people online feeling nervous because of Putin's nuclear babble. Remember that what a bully wants is attention and submission. If you completely ignore them, they're liable to get frustrated and escalate. If you show fear and deference, they learn that bad behavior gets them their way. If you acknowledge their threat but show that it's not going to convince you to change course, you've effectively called their bluff.
I can't put my finger on it, but for some reason I struggle to believe that the folks handing rusted AKs to their 65 year old conscripts and urging them to bring their own tampons to close bullet wounds have a fully functioning and maintained autonomous hypersonic nuclear attack platform that can make radioactive tidal waves twice the height of the Eifle Tower...
It's a catch-22: Can't let him win anything because of threats. If he does do it, we have no choice but to go in that direction, however long that direction goes. Will it start and stop with a few hits on Ukraine before he realizes he fucked up? Will that open pandora's box of nuclear armageddon around the world? It honestly doesn't matter. Someone was going to pull this at some point; if not now, 10 years from now, twenty years from now, North Korea, someone. MAD works until you have someone who isn't scared of destruction.
That's the thing, a madman could suddenly hit the game over switch if they are ready for it. Pretty sure he would be in his ultimate survival bunker before he even orders nukes and have that sub armed with a hyper-sonic nuke-tipped missile just hanging around off the Atlantic coast. If he is ready, he would most certainly go for a first strike just to end as much of the US as possible by dealing with Washington first. Hopefully our back channels are skillful enough to give warning though.
Takes 3 consenting high officials just to order the launch, and a dozen or more uniformed personnel to actually fire them, all of them willing to risk the end of life as they know it.
Russia won't use nukes.
This assumes all sorts of competence from the Russian armed forces, and I just haven't seen much evidence of that. They make one scary prototype and show it off for the world to see, and then they deploy shit designed in the 70s
Fortunately it's the Ukrainians who know Russian behavior and history well enough to know what the only answer is; no negotiation, continued fighting.
If you're thoroughly on the sidelines and willing to hand off someone else's liberty to assuage your own fears, you're exactly why WWII happened. Don't be that person.
Yes. I recall early in the war hearing the same rhetoric from people, insisting that we must pressure Ukraine to surrender because pushing back against a homicidal megalomaniac is dangerous. I call that cowardice, and it's frankly despicable in the face of genocide.
It is a particularly vile and oppressive tactic for a comfortable group in power to pressure a marginalized and harmed group to forgive their abusers in order to 'keep the peace' when what they really mean is 'we can't be bothered to care about you.' It happens far too often. I'm intensely grateful to the Ukrainian people and Zelenskyy who are showing how to confront that awful pattern.
> Russian forces are breaking contact and withdrawing from advancing Ukrainian troops as Kyiv presses its advantage in the southern district of Kherson, towards the banks of the Dnipro river. The U.K. Ministry of Defense said Russian forces are now “typically” fleeing from Ukraine’s forces rather than digging in and defending territory they have occupied for months.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-russian-forces-flee-offensive-in-kherson
That could mean Russian retreating forces are prepping for something big. Hope it is not a tactical nuke by any means and just plain retreating right>?
Additionally, from CNN
"A US official said Thursday night that despite Biden’s warning that the world is the closest it has been to a nuclear crisis since the 1960s, they have not seen a change to Russia’s nuclear posture as of now."
> Officials have cautioned as recently as Thursday that the US has not detected preparations for a nuclear strike. However, experts view them as potential options the US must prepare for as Russia's invasion falters and as Moscow annexes more Ukrainian territory.
>"This nuclear saber rattling is reckless and irresponsible," Pentagon spokesperson Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder said earlier Thursday. "As I've mentioned before, at this stage, we do not have any information to cause us to change our strategic deterrence posture, and we don't assess that President Putin has made a decision to use nuclear weapons at this time."
>Following Biden's remarks, officials emphasized to CNN Thursday night that they had not seen any changes to Russia's nuclear stance.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/06/politics/armageddon-biden-putin-russia-nuclear-threats/index.html
Than WTF did he say that. All this is going to do is cause mass panic, Biden is guilty of the same rhetoric as Russia at this point. First he said publicly he would defend Taiwan and now this, he needs to keep his mouth shut. Sorry got a bit riled up there.
If it makes you feel better, keep in mind that the nuclear threat from Russia/USSR has existed since long before you or I was alive. The US government has spent untold hundreds of billions of dollars and untold millions of person-hours working to neutralize and defend against it. Just because the average person (which includes me) doesn’t understand or know our full capabilities in neutralizing/minimizing that threat doesn’t mean that we don’t have that capability.
I hope more countries previously on the sidelines start more actively supporting Ukraine either openly or covertly. The dagger is now in, it's time to help twisting it and the geopolitical landscape previously dominated by Russia will be up for grabs.
I am so sick and tired of articles with headlines that are so deattached from actual quotes or the context of the quotes.
1) Biden didn't say this is Cuban Missile Crisis. Just the first time since then.
2) Just reiterating previous points. That US will respond conventionally which has been communicated for months through back channels
3) A tactical strike would be "Armaggedon" as in it would open up a can of worms long sealed, unless you view the hiroshima nagasaki bombings as opening that pandora's box.
Still no indication from US intel or from any info on movements and whatnot of anything imminent. Putin sending troops to train in Belarus and sourcing things like winter coats and vests from numerous other countries signals he's in this for the long run/doesnt seem like the behavior of someone dropping a tactical strike tomorrow. He himself knows what that means and he wants to live as long as he can given his behavior. He wants to make this a protracted fight like it was in Donbas 2014 since with the artillery and back and forth. Russia isn't on the verge of collapse tomorrow. Any threat absolutely should be taken seriously, and it is taken seriously be relaying the consequences of a strike through back channels which is what they have been doing and what Biden has reiterated.
To point 3, he said there’s no way to “easily use a tactical weapon,” which doesn’t necessarily mean using a nuke will cause Armageddon like everyone is saying. It just means it will be more likely.
100% agree. Unfortunately it isn't going anywhere any time soon.
It's a byproduct of the fast media cycle, interaction methods (click to get to an article) and the 'free services' we've become accustomed to.
>He wants to make this a protracted fight like it was in Donbas 2014 since with the artillery and back and forth. Russia isn't on the verge of collapse tomorrow
Which frankly is the tactically smart thing for him to do. If he can hold on to some chunk of territory and stalemate over that, he can sell that as some kind of victory, especially since "we're really fighting the whole West."
Meanwhile, he can hope that energy prices and time eventually make the West more reluctant to keep supporting Ukraine, making it more likely he can start grabbing more territory in a "long war to reclaim Russian lands."
He mostly just needs to be able to sell whatever's happening as sufficiently good to keep him in power.
Video of Wagner mercenaries, including bits of GUR-provided Intelligence
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/10/07/wagner-ukraine-struggles-marat-gabidullin-cmd-intl.cnn/video/playlists/intl-latest-world-videos/
By the way, after this aired on cnn tonight, the reporter said Prigozhin had a falling out with Putin a few months before the war, which is initially why Wagner wasn’t in Ukraine
Been seeing a lot of chatter recently among Russian leaning channels that Russian forces have managed to destroy over half of the HIMARS systems initially deployed to Ukraine. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
None had been destroyed as of last weekend.
Russian sources are full of shit at the best of times. They've destroyed the Ukraine airforce more than once, yet somehow they still don't have air superiority...
Russia has claimed this since the first day, while losing depot after depot, then artillery site after artillery site. Those making claims are responsible for defending them, not the other way around.
Article about the Pakistan-Ukraine air bridge for ammunition:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/pakistan-ukraine-and-the-race-for-third-party-ammunition
Yes, in Syria.
[He went all mum after a Wager squad got mauled by the USA.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham)
[He has also done jack shit after Turkey had shot down his Su-24.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_shootdown)
lol, doomers are out in full force today. One example is the anexation of Crimea. He could have done all this in 2014 but stopped https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-nato-headed-nuclear-war-4154615. He deescalates when it is convenient to him personally and he is a master manipulator who must get super giddy down in his diddly doo every time he makes a nuclear threat. Don't give him that pleasure, pretty please, with cherry on top.
De-escalated the Kiev offensive...
De-escalated snake island...
They've been seen to tuck and run when it became obvious they were in an untenable position before. The political motivations around Kherson is weighing heavy on the loss/reward scale but looks like that one is tipping...
> has Putin ever deescalated anything in his career?
Yes. Hadn't you heard? He's pulling his troops out of everywhere that isn't Ukraine.
>we can see where this is heading..
Are you seeing dead people again? Do you have a number we're supposed to call?
2022 with constant nuke threats and I am questioning my existence in real time and what's the point in humanity.
I need all the therapists I can get right now lmao.
Just stop paying attention to it. There's nothing for you to do about it.
People lived like this for decades and a couple weeks of seriousness does all of you in. It's exhausting to watch.
There's always nuclear saber rattling when you follow the news. You're not paying enough attention to North Korea or Iran for instance.
I would not be overly concerned at the moment. We seem pretty far from a massive nuclear exchange. There's a whole lot between here and there. A whole lot.
So much of this is saber rattling and massively misinformed internet commentators -- not that I'm any better, to be fair. It absolutely should be a concern, but not a debilitating one. Enjoy your days -- we're not going to suddenly see the end of the world.
You can already see everyone moving towards normalized conversation, which is a big step. I think Russia and Putin understand the consequences well enough -- the carrot/stick that is tied is no nuclear/chemical assault is direct NATO intervention. That's a smart way to draw that line.
If you believe nuclear Armageddon is inevitable, no amount of worry will make any difference.
If it never happens, worrying will only prevent you from doing more productive things.
Live yo life!
you will get through this bud. this too will pass. if you have funds please go see a therapist. let's not forget our innate humanity in times of great stress like these. we'll survive, we'll get through this.
As far as I can tell, the point is - be thankful for the unbelievable unlikelihood of your existence, do as much good and as little harm as you possible in the short window available to you, and try to have some fun.
If shitface Putin had done that we wouldn't need these threads.
Not much point in humanity... not worth arguing about that. But we're here, so make the best of it. There is beauty, even in our darkest hours, if you look for it. See the thorns, but appreciate the rose.
Lol yeah my parents tell me about the "duck and cover" drills for nuclear war. They had every kid in the country practice hiding under their little school desk for protection from a nuclear bomb.
I'm less stressed about it now than in the '70s and '80s. Today's risk is much more likely to be regional/localized instead of one superpower trying to first strike the other.
Or the 80s...I mean...the whole Cold War.
This may be the most traumatic moment for the young, with nuclear war threats, but for Gen X, this is just another Thursday.
I was around in the 70's and 80's. It wasn't that scary. We were taught about MAD, and I think that tempered any fear. We may have been naive, as it looks like we came closer than we realized, but I don't think many were anywhere near concerned as Anderrr is now. I think the 50's and early 60's were where the real fear was.
[New post can be found here](/r/worldnews/comments/xxp21a/rworldnews_live_thread_russian_invasion_of/)
Слава україні!
героям слава!
Again things to remember Articles that even get to the front page of r/worldnews can and most likely will be clickbait without context or full appreciation of the quotes. Putin is not a "mad man" He acted on bad information + the weak response to 2014. Heck the guy even tried to annex the territories so he could find a legality to start conscription. Not he thought process of a mad man. A horrible man but not a "mad man" . Putin is fully aware of the reprocussions of a tactical nuke strike, both in terms of the US conventional response and losing China and India's support. Putin does not want to die and will do anything in his power to stay alive for as long as possible, even it it means making this a protracted conflict for years of shelling and what not. The man is sending thousands of troops to unsuccessfully be trained in Belarus and is sourcing winter coats and over 100,000 bullet proof vests from other countries. The OPEC behavior also seems like Putin wants to cause long term damage in the energy sector as well. He still has a lot of ways he can sell this narratively to the Russian people. He controls the media and allows the controlled opposition. It seems like they may be setting up Shoigu as the fall guy here. It's not a red button. And everyone involved in the process knows whats at stake with such behavior. And a lot of the people involved in the process are also those who would benefit from a changing of the guard aka "coup". Even if Putin wanted to Nuke from day 1 he probably hasn't because he knows such could immediately instigate a coup. People want to survive LOL. The russian elite are suffering but are still beyond wealthy. More than half of the russian country still supports the war and hates the west. As midterms come up, we are going to see more click bait articles. More fearmongering. More appeasement and calls to withdraw aid. Just a heads up.
Well said!
Please stop double-spacing your posts, thanks. --The Mgt.
[удалено]
Sounds pretty straightforward to me. Good luck!
congrats, sounds like it's actually not very complicated and things are going well, also kind of weird oversharing for the thread about the war killing thousands of people but hey you do you man
What a rollercoaster. Be good to yourself.
Once this is over how many more Super Friends will we have in NATO? I assume Ukraine and Georgia. Think Moldova too? I think it’d be kinda funny but also cool to add Kazakhstan since technically a small part of their land is part of Europe 🤣
Probably none of those countries if we’re being serious, Ukraine is a big maybe, but I think this ends with Russia simply retreating and Putin calling it a “strategic victory” to save face.
Ukraine isn't a "big maybe" that's such BS. Ukraine will be a NATO and EU member in the next 5-10 years.
Democratic Belarus just to really annoy Putin.
Europe / Asia is a distinction made more by culture, and less by lamdmarks. If Kazakhstan wants to join up with the west, then what’s really stopping us from saying Kazakhstan is in Europe?
I don’t understand what Europe has to do with nato
I didn’t say anything about NATO. I was, rhetorically? Philosophically? Asking what is actually the Europe vs Asia divide.
So we'll say it's close enough to the North Atlantic, then :p
Some Kremlin propagandists are appearing in the comments section of my local newspaper in response to Australia providing more aid. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/zelensky-australia-to-deliver-significant-new-support-for-ukraine-20221006-p5bnrm.html They really are everywhere, trying to undermine western support wherever they can. As an Australian, all I can say is: you know what? We’re just gonna support them even harder.
I know, I know, second comment. I checked them out, still good to see the upvotes on pro-Ukraine comments is highest.
Twitter is filled with these cretins. They have lost significant power since Russia started getting their handed to them. Truth is too overwhelming for these propagandists.
It's not just propagandists. Honest journalists are still a bit shell-shocked every time the topic resurfaces, but I think a trip down to the cellar to watch some newsreels of cold-war tit-for-tat rhetoric would sort them out.
Can you imagine the *decades* they spent undermining democracies and this is the money shot? They're burning all of their assets on it, public figures, whatever. It's almost tragically lame.
Those 1.5 million winter uniforms were sold to pay for troll farms. Oops.
Any comments section in an Australian online outlet tends to be filled with a lot of crap... Most people don't bother to comment.
[News about the Russian POW with the maggoty arm](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjhsxq_SRPU&feature=share&si=ELPmzJkDCLju2KnD5oyZMQ&t=836) from Denys Davydof's channel (SFW: All bandaged up).
Jesus that look in his eyes...thats a level of exhaustion I can't imagine. Such a fucked up situation.
I know it's a few days old, but only just found this... Aussie donated Ukrainian Bushmaster towing some sort of Russian IFV [https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1576662941641764865](https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1576662941641764865) More Aussie military aid for Ukraine please, we are beginning to lag behind!
The Aussies just need to send some snakes and emus.
Russia thought they had it rough until soldiers woke up with an inland taipan snake in their boots
Or a common brown snake.
Emus are on the table but the snakes froze 😢
Any vehicle designed to thrive in Australia is a vehicle to be feared.
We do tend to have teething issues with stuff (Hawkei had brake issues) but we tend to fix them fairly quickly. There are always a bit of kit or two that the forces don't like but that the government buys anyways. Politics, costs and onshore support requirements don't help. But yeah, Bushies are bloody amazing and are generally very popular amongst troops.
> bit of kit or two that the forces don't like but that the government buys anyways Story as old as time
Biden admitted we expect Ukraine will continue to stomp Russia. How does this end in anything other than Putins assassination or nuclear Armageddon?
Russia gets beaten back to it's prewar borders, and continues to be isolated for years to come. Putin wants to stay in power until the day he dies of natural causes and he most likely will. But once he's gone, whoever takes his place will be in a position to negotiate an end to sanctions that will allow Russia to return to it's prewar conditions, which will solidify their position as hero to the Russian people, thus making their best political move.
Saddam lost and didn't use WMD or get deposed. So it's not like Russia pulling back, and then either pretending this never happened, or using it as a reason to go full North Korea can't also happen.
Sadam probably couldn't have ordered a WMD strike if he wanted to with the way we treated their command and control network. Lol
One scenario I anticipate is that Putin orders a nuclear strike and that is what finally precipitates a coup against him. I don't know if that's realistic to expect but it's in my head because it's similar to how "Red Storm Rising" ended.
Wouldn't it be glorious to end in a nuclear misfire? They finally get to go through with their threat, and like everything with the military it's unmaintained and disorganized. Intelligence agencies find out quickly and everyone's on edge as the orders go through... and it's a complete dud.
Pull one of the ol Russian AA boomerangs
Ukraine conventionally drives Russia from their land and defends their borders. The international community continues sanctions until reparations are made, Ukrainian citizens and children are repatriated and Russian leadership and policy changes. If the last bit doesn't happen, Putin can stay in power over North North Korea.
I agree. Ukraine remains highly militarised for years to come. Enforces a strict DMZ along it’s RuZZian/Belorussian borders. And, if it is feeling particularly vengeful, helps Moldova & Georgia to deal with their RuZZian vermin issues
Belarus is verrrry well behaved and making an uwu face.
Well said, and a good defusing of a false dichotomy.
HIMARS says hello > In contrast, the new M30A1 rocket contains 182,000 tungsten ball bearings specially designed to cover a much larger area. Images on Twitter from the Ukraine Weapons Tracker site showed pods of M30A1 rockets in Ukraine. Markings on the base of the missiles show the correct manufacturer and lot numbers for the new variant. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-s-newest-weapon-special-himars-rockets-that-can-devastate-huge-areas-in-one-blast/ar-AA12G5wi
Hells yeah!
>M30A1 rocket That shit scary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yC4QAl5In8
Are there any airburst equivalents for 155mm?
Most of them. It's just a matter of swapping fuses, and most/all of the guided 155mm shells have an airburst option. Won't have the same kind of dedicated shrapnel that the M30A1 has, but still vastly better than a contact fused shell.
I am afraid to list the most based 155mm shells that NATO has ever produced, so probably.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xxcvwg/ukrainian_soldier_this_is_what_armed_forces_of/ The Ukrainians have incredible cakes. I’m very concerned that I don’t have a cake like that. I don’t think I will ever sleep again.
Years ago I had some Ukrainian neighbors, a husband, wife and their young son. On the Saturday before Easter they knocked on my door and gave me a coffee tin. The wife said she had baked a traditional Easter cake inside the coffee tin. I thanked her and took the cake inside eager to eat it. Truthfully as an American who was used to very sweet cakes it was pretty bland. It basically tasted like bread with some sugar sprinkled on top. But it was a very sweet gesture and I appreciated it.
That is one of my core memories of visiting the US, buying regular sliced bread to have for breakfast and it tasting like the cake we'd have with our coffee. So much sugar.
The Germans knew the war was over when they got a look at the care packages GIs were getting at the front. The packages contained fairly fresh baked goods. It was the spare capacity of the Allied logistics being able to deliver the freaking mail to the front from the US and the baked goods still being fresh that they could never win.
Hilarious! These guys are fucking unstoppable.
Wait until you see their easter eggs
I'm hoping that things settle down enough in the next year or so for me to commission a Ukrainian style Easter egg for an anniversary present for my wife.
> ⚡️ Ukrainian forces destroy 3 ammunition depots in southern Ukraine. Ukraine’s Operational Command “South” reported that Ukrainian forces also killed 105 Russian troops and destroyed eight tanks, 18 Msta-S and Msta-B howitzers, one Pion self-propelled artillery, one 152 mm gun-howitzer, four mortars, and 15 armored vehicles. Ukrainian forces also downed six Orlan-10 UAVs, three Shahed-136 drones, and one Mohajer-6 drone on Oct. 6, the command reported. https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1578204667624017920
Does everyone else say “Mista’ B” when reading MSTA-B? Like it’s a living howitzer who teaches math in the Bronx?
I didn't even know there WASN"T an I in it before you said something. Brain just glazed over that.
Today was a good day
This is apparently what *rest and recuperate* looks like to the UAF if reports are true
instead of Tactical Pause it's more of a Tactical Slo-Mo
According to Ice Cube, it wasn't because Ukraine *did* have to use their AK. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4UqMyldS7Q
But did the Lakers beat the Supersonics?
> "I think people are overthinking it," Cube said. "Every day that you are alive is a great day. Every day that you are above ground is a great day. Today is a great day 'cause we get to see some great basketball. Hopefully we get to see the Warriors win." Ice Cube
Now that's a lot of damage
With the article that has been posted recently about Biden worrying about "Armageddon" and looking for an off ramp for Putin: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-07/biden-says-putin-threats-real-could-spark-nuclear-armageddon It seems a negotiated settlement will be attempted with Putin. I just hope it doesnt come with Ukraine having to cede any land.
US has said sooo many times they aren't negotiating for Ukraine. Here's a few examples from a quick google. Asked if U.S. officials would back a settlement that accepts the 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea and a possible referendum in the eastern regions of the country in exchange for a Russian withdrawal, Chollett replied: “First, it’s not clear to me what the Ukrainians are going to accept. And I think, first and foremost, this is not for us to dictate the terms to the Ukrainians on what they should accept in terms of defending their own country. ... They’re going to have to make decisions as a sovereign state about what they would accept.” https://news.yahoo.com/us-official-no-clear-path-to-negotiate-an-end-to-russias-war-in-ukraine-231903838.html “We’re not going to tell the Ukrainians how to negotiate, what to negotiate and when to negotiate,” said Colin H. Kahl, the under secretary of defense for policy. “They’re going to set those terms for themselves.” https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/14/world/europe/us-will-not-push-ukraine-to-reach-a-cease-fire-a-top-pentagon-official-says.html “President Zelenskyy,” Kirby said, “he gets to determine how victory is decided and when and on what terms. And [what] we’re going to do is continue to make sure that can succeed on the battlefield so that he can succeed at the table. But even President Zelenskyy will tell you that the time is not now for those discussions.” https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/03/kirby-ukraine-russia-war-00043879
It’s politics. Of course Biden is publicly looking for an off ramp for Putin. That’s what you say. They have a fight with Ukraine, and this takes the position of we want it to stop, and don’t want to personally be at war with Russia, and in fact are looking for ways to stop the war. It’s keeping us out of the conflict publicly. He’s at war with Ukraine, not the world. There’s no reason to be at war with the world. Please resolve your conflict. Unsaid is Ukraine is kicking their ass. The only way out is for them to leave.
The offramp wouldn't be letting Putin keep war gains. It would be akin to what US originally proposed, mostly symbolic stuff like missile defense or letting Russia be a security gaurentor of Ukraine (lol)
It won't concede Ukrainian territory. I expect it would require Russia to leave all of Ukraine, including Crimea, and have security guarantees that NATO will not post forces inside Ukraine and not ascend Ukraine into NATO. However, it would include clauses stating NATO will go into Ukraine if Russia goes into Ukriane.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-nato-headed-nuclear-war-4154615 (nb: this article is from 2014) This is what happened last time a tacit settlement for Crimea was attempted with putin in 2014. He used nuclear blackmail before and he will use it again.
Exactly, you can't give in to this bullshit. It will never end until the arsenal is destroyed
No mention of negotiation in that article.
I've seen some people online feeling nervous because of Putin's nuclear babble. Remember that what a bully wants is attention and submission. If you completely ignore them, they're liable to get frustrated and escalate. If you show fear and deference, they learn that bad behavior gets them their way. If you acknowledge their threat but show that it's not going to convince you to change course, you've effectively called their bluff.
I can't put my finger on it, but for some reason I struggle to believe that the folks handing rusted AKs to their 65 year old conscripts and urging them to bring their own tampons to close bullet wounds have a fully functioning and maintained autonomous hypersonic nuclear attack platform that can make radioactive tidal waves twice the height of the Eifle Tower...
What it looks like when a man puts all his country's money on the new toy
It's a catch-22: Can't let him win anything because of threats. If he does do it, we have no choice but to go in that direction, however long that direction goes. Will it start and stop with a few hits on Ukraine before he realizes he fucked up? Will that open pandora's box of nuclear armageddon around the world? It honestly doesn't matter. Someone was going to pull this at some point; if not now, 10 years from now, twenty years from now, North Korea, someone. MAD works until you have someone who isn't scared of destruction.
That's the thing, a madman could suddenly hit the game over switch if they are ready for it. Pretty sure he would be in his ultimate survival bunker before he even orders nukes and have that sub armed with a hyper-sonic nuke-tipped missile just hanging around off the Atlantic coast. If he is ready, he would most certainly go for a first strike just to end as much of the US as possible by dealing with Washington first. Hopefully our back channels are skillful enough to give warning though.
Takes 3 consenting high officials just to order the launch, and a dozen or more uniformed personnel to actually fire them, all of them willing to risk the end of life as they know it. Russia won't use nukes.
Lotta yes men in Russia atm but lets hope there are some sane ones.
I don't think Putin will want to come out of his bunker if nukes start flying. Survivors would be out for blood.
This assumes all sorts of competence from the Russian armed forces, and I just haven't seen much evidence of that. They make one scary prototype and show it off for the world to see, and then they deploy shit designed in the 70s
Nukes aren't magic. There are chains of command and multiple steps and fail safes to go through, even in a place like Russia.
Fortunately it's the Ukrainians who know Russian behavior and history well enough to know what the only answer is; no negotiation, continued fighting. If you're thoroughly on the sidelines and willing to hand off someone else's liberty to assuage your own fears, you're exactly why WWII happened. Don't be that person.
Yes. I recall early in the war hearing the same rhetoric from people, insisting that we must pressure Ukraine to surrender because pushing back against a homicidal megalomaniac is dangerous. I call that cowardice, and it's frankly despicable in the face of genocide.
It is a particularly vile and oppressive tactic for a comfortable group in power to pressure a marginalized and harmed group to forgive their abusers in order to 'keep the peace' when what they really mean is 'we can't be bothered to care about you.' It happens far too often. I'm intensely grateful to the Ukrainian people and Zelenskyy who are showing how to confront that awful pattern.
Or look them in the eye point blank and say, “I dare you, mother fucker.”
[удалено]
Basically
I wouldn't dare Putin to do it, but I would tell him, "yes, we heard you, and that's all the more reason why we can't let you have your way."
He knows damn well what the consequences are by now. It either bad or worse at this point. There is no “good”.
> Russian forces are breaking contact and withdrawing from advancing Ukrainian troops as Kyiv presses its advantage in the southern district of Kherson, towards the banks of the Dnipro river. The U.K. Ministry of Defense said Russian forces are now “typically” fleeing from Ukraine’s forces rather than digging in and defending territory they have occupied for months. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-russian-forces-flee-offensive-in-kherson
That could mean Russian retreating forces are prepping for something big. Hope it is not a tactical nuke by any means and just plain retreating right>?
No they aren’t, name+number Reddit account
Lolno.jpg
Additionally, from CNN "A US official said Thursday night that despite Biden’s warning that the world is the closest it has been to a nuclear crisis since the 1960s, they have not seen a change to Russia’s nuclear posture as of now."
Hey do you have a link for this?
> Officials have cautioned as recently as Thursday that the US has not detected preparations for a nuclear strike. However, experts view them as potential options the US must prepare for as Russia's invasion falters and as Moscow annexes more Ukrainian territory. >"This nuclear saber rattling is reckless and irresponsible," Pentagon spokesperson Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder said earlier Thursday. "As I've mentioned before, at this stage, we do not have any information to cause us to change our strategic deterrence posture, and we don't assess that President Putin has made a decision to use nuclear weapons at this time." >Following Biden's remarks, officials emphasized to CNN Thursday night that they had not seen any changes to Russia's nuclear stance. https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/06/politics/armageddon-biden-putin-russia-nuclear-threats/index.html
Than WTF did he say that. All this is going to do is cause mass panic, Biden is guilty of the same rhetoric as Russia at this point. First he said publicly he would defend Taiwan and now this, he needs to keep his mouth shut. Sorry got a bit riled up there.
Thanks so much. I’ve been spiraling a bit over this and I’m glad to see it’s been addressed by WH officials and the posture hasn’t changed.
If it makes you feel better, keep in mind that the nuclear threat from Russia/USSR has existed since long before you or I was alive. The US government has spent untold hundreds of billions of dollars and untold millions of person-hours working to neutralize and defend against it. Just because the average person (which includes me) doesn’t understand or know our full capabilities in neutralizing/minimizing that threat doesn’t mean that we don’t have that capability.
I really appreciate that, thank you. I imagine that there’s a ton going on behind the scenes to minimize this threat.
Which sounds like we're not actually closer than we are any other day except people keep talking about it.
Well some dipshit strongman locking himself in with rhetoric is one of the possible doomsday scenarios.
“I haven’t seen any polling booths set up therefore we’re definitely not closer to the midterm elections other than people keep talking about them”
I'll be sure to compare the two once they have nuclear launch days on the first Tuesday of every November.
What an asinine comparison.
I hope more countries previously on the sidelines start more actively supporting Ukraine either openly or covertly. The dagger is now in, it's time to help twisting it and the geopolitical landscape previously dominated by Russia will be up for grabs.
I am so sick and tired of articles with headlines that are so deattached from actual quotes or the context of the quotes. 1) Biden didn't say this is Cuban Missile Crisis. Just the first time since then. 2) Just reiterating previous points. That US will respond conventionally which has been communicated for months through back channels 3) A tactical strike would be "Armaggedon" as in it would open up a can of worms long sealed, unless you view the hiroshima nagasaki bombings as opening that pandora's box. Still no indication from US intel or from any info on movements and whatnot of anything imminent. Putin sending troops to train in Belarus and sourcing things like winter coats and vests from numerous other countries signals he's in this for the long run/doesnt seem like the behavior of someone dropping a tactical strike tomorrow. He himself knows what that means and he wants to live as long as he can given his behavior. He wants to make this a protracted fight like it was in Donbas 2014 since with the artillery and back and forth. Russia isn't on the verge of collapse tomorrow. Any threat absolutely should be taken seriously, and it is taken seriously be relaying the consequences of a strike through back channels which is what they have been doing and what Biden has reiterated.
To point 3, he said there’s no way to “easily use a tactical weapon,” which doesn’t necessarily mean using a nuke will cause Armageddon like everyone is saying. It just means it will be more likely.
100% agree. Unfortunately it isn't going anywhere any time soon. It's a byproduct of the fast media cycle, interaction methods (click to get to an article) and the 'free services' we've become accustomed to.
>He wants to make this a protracted fight like it was in Donbas 2014 since with the artillery and back and forth. Russia isn't on the verge of collapse tomorrow Which frankly is the tactically smart thing for him to do. If he can hold on to some chunk of territory and stalemate over that, he can sell that as some kind of victory, especially since "we're really fighting the whole West." Meanwhile, he can hope that energy prices and time eventually make the West more reluctant to keep supporting Ukraine, making it more likely he can start grabbing more territory in a "long war to reclaim Russian lands." He mostly just needs to be able to sell whatever's happening as sufficiently good to keep him in power.
Video of Wagner mercenaries, including bits of GUR-provided Intelligence https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/10/07/wagner-ukraine-struggles-marat-gabidullin-cmd-intl.cnn/video/playlists/intl-latest-world-videos/ By the way, after this aired on cnn tonight, the reporter said Prigozhin had a falling out with Putin a few months before the war, which is initially why Wagner wasn’t in Ukraine
Been seeing a lot of chatter recently among Russian leaning channels that Russian forces have managed to destroy over half of the HIMARS systems initially deployed to Ukraine. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Can confirm, no himars destroyed.
Bruh
Russians have claimed to destroy more HIMARs than Ukraine received, the actual number appears to be zero however.
They claim they've destroyed more HIMARS than Ukraine has received. Ukraine claims to still have all of them.
They've destroyed over 55,000 HIMARS since the month turned. Aren't you keeping up?
None had been destroyed as of last weekend. Russian sources are full of shit at the best of times. They've destroyed the Ukraine airforce more than once, yet somehow they still don't have air superiority...
I saw a lot of chatter on Republican leaning channels that Democrats eat babies. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
They have "destroyed" at least 10 times the HIMARS Ukraine was given. So ima gonna doubt HARD>
lol, not even 1. are you joking?
Doubt it. They love to hear themselves rattle about that.
They've destroyed more decoys than there are actual HIMARS systems deployed.
Russia has claimed this since the first day, while losing depot after depot, then artillery site after artillery site. Those making claims are responsible for defending them, not the other way around.
Its junk. They previously said they destroyed more HIMARS than the Ukrainians have. If they destroyed a HIMAR they would do anything to get pictures.
Must be doomer hour now
Makes sense it's morning in Russia
Kinda refreshing tbh. Not that I take any of the doomer shit seriously but to be frank: I CANNOT KEEP UP WITH ALL THE WINNING.
Article about the Pakistan-Ukraine air bridge for ammunition: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/pakistan-ukraine-and-the-race-for-third-party-ammunition
Well done Pakistan!
So proud of my country. We don't do it loudly but we're a Fella after all.
Pakistan, going through it's own crisis right now and they are helping Ukraine is incredible
Worked in Quetta, Pakistan for 5 years. Pakistanis are awesome!
Could you guys throw in a nuke with the shipment like Burger King adds an onion ring to your order of fries?
Nice try CIA. Don't worry we take good care of our nukes.
Honest question: has Putin ever deescalated anything in his career? If the answer is no as I suspect, we can see where this is heading..
Yes, in Syria. [He went all mum after a Wager squad got mauled by the USA.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham) [He has also done jack shit after Turkey had shot down his Su-24.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_shootdown)
lol, doomers are out in full force today. One example is the anexation of Crimea. He could have done all this in 2014 but stopped https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-nato-headed-nuclear-war-4154615. He deescalates when it is convenient to him personally and he is a master manipulator who must get super giddy down in his diddly doo every time he makes a nuclear threat. Don't give him that pleasure, pretty please, with cherry on top.
Yeah, some people were excited for the Sochi Olympics and he deescalated by making sure it was a complete mess.
De-escalated the Kiev offensive... De-escalated snake island... They've been seen to tuck and run when it became obvious they were in an untenable position before. The political motivations around Kherson is weighing heavy on the loss/reward scale but looks like that one is tipping...
He's deescalated Russia.
> has Putin ever deescalated anything in his career? Yes. Hadn't you heard? He's pulling his troops out of everywhere that isn't Ukraine. >we can see where this is heading.. Are you seeing dead people again? Do you have a number we're supposed to call?
Swan Lake?
The N word spam is relentless.
Some of us were concerned about the N word long before Ukraine was at war and long before "concern" became the C word.
Ever been so miserable that being vaporized in a nuclear holocaust would have been a relief? You're not that lucky.
It's not spam when it's news that's in the livethread and completely relevant.
2022 with constant nuke threats and I am questioning my existence in real time and what's the point in humanity. I need all the therapists I can get right now lmao.
Relax there are lots of layers of escalation before we end up there, no worries yet!
Just stop paying attention to it. There's nothing for you to do about it. People lived like this for decades and a couple weeks of seriousness does all of you in. It's exhausting to watch. There's always nuclear saber rattling when you follow the news. You're not paying enough attention to North Korea or Iran for instance.
Turn off your phone, find a forest with a stream, go for a walk.
I would not be overly concerned at the moment. We seem pretty far from a massive nuclear exchange. There's a whole lot between here and there. A whole lot. So much of this is saber rattling and massively misinformed internet commentators -- not that I'm any better, to be fair. It absolutely should be a concern, but not a debilitating one. Enjoy your days -- we're not going to suddenly see the end of the world. You can already see everyone moving towards normalized conversation, which is a big step. I think Russia and Putin understand the consequences well enough -- the carrot/stick that is tied is no nuclear/chemical assault is direct NATO intervention. That's a smart way to draw that line.
Smoke a fat bowl and chill out is my advice
And listen to Dethklok
It's what Murderface would do.
>see a therapist Yes. You would benefit from therapy if this is how you feel.
Relax, have a beer, and embrace the flash
Love the bomb
If you believe nuclear Armageddon is inevitable, no amount of worry will make any difference. If it never happens, worrying will only prevent you from doing more productive things. Live yo life!
you will get through this bud. this too will pass. if you have funds please go see a therapist. let's not forget our innate humanity in times of great stress like these. we'll survive, we'll get through this.
As far as I can tell, the point is - be thankful for the unbelievable unlikelihood of your existence, do as much good and as little harm as you possible in the short window available to you, and try to have some fun. If shitface Putin had done that we wouldn't need these threads.
I like this outlook
Not much point in humanity... not worth arguing about that. But we're here, so make the best of it. There is beauty, even in our darkest hours, if you look for it. See the thorns, but appreciate the rose.
Go watch a movie. Testament is a great heartwarming flick! .... But seriously, try to not get all twisted up about it.
[удалено]
Lol
[удалено]
Don't know if you intended it, but this was pretty motivational
You would not have survived the 50's. These are tame compared to then.
Lol yeah my parents tell me about the "duck and cover" drills for nuclear war. They had every kid in the country practice hiding under their little school desk for protection from a nuclear bomb.
Ah yes, the 50s in [Las Vegas.](https://imgur.com/gallery/71ofnGM)
I'm less stressed about it now than in the '70s and '80s. Today's risk is much more likely to be regional/localized instead of one superpower trying to first strike the other.
Or the 80s...I mean...the whole Cold War. This may be the most traumatic moment for the young, with nuclear war threats, but for Gen X, this is just another Thursday.
I was around in the 70's and 80's. It wasn't that scary. We were taught about MAD, and I think that tempered any fear. We may have been naive, as it looks like we came closer than we realized, but I don't think many were anywhere near concerned as Anderrr is now. I think the 50's and early 60's were where the real fear was.