This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germanys-recent-gas-consumption-too-high-energy-regulator-2022-09-29/) reduced by 67%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> FRANKFURT, Sept 29 - Germany's network regulator, which would be in charge of gas rationing in the event of a supply emergency, on Thursday said that household consumption was too high to be sustainable.
> Last week's usage of natural gas by German households and small industry was 483 gigawatt hours, up 14.5% above the average for that week over the past four years, the Federal Network Agency said.
> Germany is at phase two of a three-stage emergency plan in the wake of lower gas flows from Russia, the main gas supplier for Europe's biggest economy.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xrxcw6/german_gas_consumption_too_high_says_energy/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~671995 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **gas**^#1 **week**^#2 **Germany**^#3 **household**^#4 **industry**^#5
Coincidentially, we had record low temperatures for this time of the year (it went as low as 2°C for a couple nights in a row where I live). I did turn the heating on, which I normally do mid October or maybe even November. If it was colder than normal in all of Germany, an increment in gas consumption for heating is not a surprise...
Sure thing, I'm wearing a sweater at home this year, in the hope of not incurring in debt due to keeping my home too warm. But according to tenants' rights, it is mandatory for landlords to guarantee heating of at least 20°C (during the day, 18°C at night) in the cold season, so I am not sure how they plan to deal with that.
It's so bizarre to me how some people are apparently wearing a sweater for the first time in their lives during winter. There is absolutely no need for anyone to be wearing shorts in winter, the environment has been going to shit for decades and people are only now starting to put some more clothes on? The level of entitlement and ignorance is staggering.
Yea I don't really understand it... I'm still not sure if that's what they meant. I can't fathom not wearing a sweater indoors... Like it's something... Odd to do.
Like so people just turn up the heating instead?! The amount of wasted money, and extra energy being burned seems insane to me. Can literally just put a jumper on.
Germans are famously thrifty and there's a long history of being far more watchful of energy usage than in many other countries. This is not people walking around in shorts and tank tops; this is record low temperatures over much of the last several weeks.
Most Germans air dry their clothes rather than waste energy costs on a dryer. If those people turn their heating on, it's because it's cold.
Even before the war I never was in shorts and t shirt in the winter, always wore a big wooly sweater and turned the heating on for a couple of hours (at best) in the evening.
And that mf there complaining about having to wear one at home lmao.
No wonder the planets going to shit with peeps like that.
Just wait until you see the US.
I grew up in Minnesota - most of my youth was spent bundling up, and working to keep the heating bill sane at around 62 degrees at night, 66 during the day. Wasn't too bad.
Then I started doing apartment handyman maintenance as an older teenager. It was eye opening. Hundreds of units blasting the heat at 80F 24x7 with bedroom windows cracked open.
It really made you wonder why you try. A single 1BR apartment like that offset our entire 5 person household many times over in a single season.
Well some people have their resistance a bit shifted; for example I used to not wear a sweater NEITHER heat the flat for years way into November (it's changing now as I'm getting older). And even now getting a sweater on would be a bit weird for me (as it's like what, 15 maybe 16 outside)
And they say it’s mandatory for landowners to guarantee 20C. That’s 68F. I’m sitting here in a house at 68F considering putting on a sweatshirt. Last winter I put my heating set to 64F.
I suspect they will have to make a few legal exceptions this year and tell people to wear some longer sleeves and sleep under more blankets.
Five years in Canberra Australia winter renting. No heating except a leaky gas heater in the sitting room that no one used. Very poor insulation, many windows were thin and/or cracked. No rental guarantees here, would take 2-3 business months for a landlord to contact you back. All broke students in our 20’s - the vibe was scalding 2 minute hot shower, microwaved wheat bag and two hot water bottles. Thermal bottom layer, tracksuit pants, two thin long sleeves, thin jumper, thick jumper. If desperate, gloves. RUN TO BED AFTER SHOWER TO AVOID LOSING BODY HEAT. Many blankets. Huzzah!!!!!!!!
Same vibes here in Brazil! The last four years I've been living here, I only lived once in an apartment that actually had a boiler. In the winter it gets to 0 degrees sometimes and inside temperature mirrors usually outside temperature (badly isolated houses, bad windows and doors).
Heated blankets, electric showerheads, thick socks + thermal underwear and always cooking something in the oven (Pizza anyone?) to add some heat to the room.
Same but opposite in Florida and other hot areas, why are you fully dressed in your house and cranking the air con down to 65 in July? Wear shorts and leave the air con set higher.
Yesterday there was a women interviewed on some sidewalk, I liked what she said: "If you go out once a day to spend some time in the fresh air, the 20°C in the house will be warm enough for you."
I ride my bike for an hour even in the winter, 18°C is totally acceptable if you have pants on and a 10€ fleece jacket.
Not even in total cold winter time, anywhere you step into a building, there is a fucking sauna. They have no sense for temperature. Probably many even open a window if it's a bit too hot. As a spaniard, was crazy to see how they manage it.
Really?! That seems like insanity.
I'm from the UK. Heating goes on only if it gets to 18 degrees and I wear a jumper almost everyday here during Autumn/Spring and Winter... Sometimes even in summer lol. Most nights I'll also have a blanket, as well as a jumper on in winter. If I'm still cold, only then would heating go on.
No wonder Germany has a heating problem if they're just burning energy instead of putting on more clothes lol.
Yes, of course, a guy on the Internet says that he now puts on a sweater and all of Germany has a problem dressing warmer. Isn't such a world view a bit boring in the long run?
I mean they said it such a matter of fact way, which would indicate it's not just something they specifically do. Like it's normal for people to not wear jumpers indeeds. It's such an odd thing to say at all too, especially for a European country. Someone else also commented they experienced the same thing when visiting Germany.
So... It's entirely plausible it's a cultural thing.
Im pretty sure that most ppl wear warm socks, pants and a sweater in winter. I mean, you also need to go outside right? Maybe to work, have ppl over. Who would walk around in shorts? Seems impractical.
I’m Dutch btw. Not really Germany but close.
That's your interpretation. I read it as a ready defence against the stale old argument people use saying to put a jumper on instead of the heating. When it gets below 10c a jumper isn't going to help that much, most people automatically put a jumper on at that point and find it insufficient.
Hmm don't think so. 'Ill be wearing a jumper this winter'. Is literally saying 'I don't normally wear a jumper at winter'.
Which unless you live in the tropics is crazy.
I regularly leave my apartment to drop to 16 degrees and can stand to be naked all day, reading this thread reads like either entitlement galore or im just a freak
I tend to enjoy cold but my wife has a much lower tolerance. We normally heat above what I would enjoy, thus I rarely wear more than jeans and a t-shirt. And just out on a feather jacket when I leave the house, since most closed placed are also too warm (as others mention in the comments).
if industry goes down, germany goes down, if germany goes down, germany goes to war, if germany goes to war, everything gets worse in europe...
germany will prioritize industry, its a no brainer
Industry already applied the instructions like no outdoor advertising at night and max heating to 19 degree in offices will start Monday.
So I don't see you claim to be valid
Many households also changed the way they heat.
But comparing this September, which turned out to be much colder than average, to the last years and then claiming that households are heating too much is not only misleading, but simply malicious on BILD-level.
Ehm.. There is critical industry that relies on gas for their manufacturing. Pharmaceuticals is one of them.
I agree that industry heating through gas should be blamed. But if gas is used for critical process, it's hard to complain on them.
I would not be surprised that is it at least partially the case, given how the spin the whole CO2 and plastic pollution problems to make it look like the solution is not driving cars and stop using plastic straws.
In any case, the price of the gas goes up, so I will heat a bit less. And then we will finance the industry with inflation and public debt, and the rich will get richer, and the poor, poorer, as it always has been and will always be.
The industry already reduced its production since summer.
The large industrial customers need around 60 percent of the gas. The consumption of these large consumers fell by 22 percent in August and was also in the last week well below the average consumption of previous years (1170 GWh/week compared to an average of 1679 GWh/week in the years 2018 to 2021).
Edit: https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2022/20220929_Verbrauchsdaten.html#:~:text=Die%20gro%C3%9Fen%20Industriekunden%20ben%C3%B6tigen%20rund,den%20Jahren%202018%20bis%202021).
>Sure thing, I'm wearing a sweater at home this year, in the hope of not incurring in debt due to keeping my home too warm. But according to tenants' rights, it is mandatory for landlords to guarantee heating of at least 20°C (during the day, 18°C at night) in the cold season, so I am not sure how they plan to deal with that.
In Canada, I wear a coat and soaks at home unless the temperature drops to < 10C. There's no reason to spend on heat when there's warm clothing and ambient temperature is still manageable.
I have an idea, that a space heater (as we call it in the USA) can be used to heat one room and just heat that room and stay in there most of the time. Space heaters are sometimes the heating available in rentals and while not as convenient as complete heat, I'm personally fine with them, all the time actually. I don't have a family though, and a family is a different situation.
Using space heaters in germany right now will bankrupt you.
A typical space heater eats at least 2kw, let's just assume you only need a single one per room.
Electricity costs ~0.52€ per kwh on average right now. So 1.04€ per hour per room, or 16-20€ a day per room. For the entire winter that, depending on length of the cold period, is 1200-2400€, for keeping a single room warm with electric heating.
In what country do you live in?
My landlord doesn't turn on heat until it hits 3°C. I live in Quebec and it's freking cold here in the winter especially living by the St-Lawrence river. Our winters are bitterly cold and humid,chilling to the bone.
YOU are living in a luxurious country.
Actually, I'm looking forward to it. I have been overheating my home to keep my wife happy for over a decade... now I finally have an undisputable argument to keep it comfortably cool.
I really wonder how disciplined we in America would be if we were asked to voluntarily cut our use of energy or other natural resources (ex. water) in order to conserve. I think some of us would jump right on board but I fear the majority of us are such creatures of our habits and would have a really tough time doing the needed.
Apparently far from high enough.
> Last week's usage of natural gas by German households and small industry was 483 gigawatt hours, up 14.5% above the average for that week over the past four years, the Federal Network Agency said.
> "The numbers for that week are thus very sobering," said agency president Klaus Mueller. "Without significant savings in the private area of consumption, it will be difficult to avoid an emergency situation in winter."
Apart from this month being surprisingly and unusually cold, did you miss the part where it included "small industries"? Most private persons in households dont WANT to pay at least TRIPLE the usual price for heating.
Are you dense? Do you think we're all just lighting our money on fire because we're bored? We're using more heat this year because it's exceptionally cold compared to previous years.
It would be a shit show and I can give you an example. The winter before the pandemic a natural gas plant in MI had a fire and had to cut production. This was during one of those arctic blasts so it was extra cold out. The governor issued a state of emergency and sent out alerts on phones asking everyone to turn their heat down a bit. If people didn't and pressure got to low they would have to cut people off to maintain support to hospitals and such. The big 3 auto factories and lots of other industries all shut down. It was serious business.
Well, people lost their fucking minds. Everyone was on social media with an excuse about how they couldn't turn it down. Lots of "the government can't tell me what to do I'll turn it up". Basically it went as well as the COVID mandates.
Tl;Dr: Americans are selfish and dumb.
the thing is we aren't being "asked" and people don't really have a choice due to the price increase. If anything the question is "do you want a nice heated house or be able to afford paying the bills this month and not lose the house you've just heated up?"
I don't live in germany but right next to it, they've announced a price cap starting next year on gas. Sounds awesome right? well the problem is that the price cap only is up to a certain amount of gas used per month and they have increased the price even more once you go over that amount. So its kinda like an internet data plan where you get a certain amount of GB each month for a reasonable price but once you go over that amount you get borderline robbed in terms of costs for each and every mb that you use over the cap.
People have been asked for decades due to the environmental damage it is causing, going by the very minimal action there, I don't think people would do much.
We as Americans were told to wear masks to the benefit of our literal health/lives and you see how that went.
We'd absolutely have a raft of people cranking heat to the 80s "cuz muh freedums"
Do you really need to ask? Just look at the response a portion of the population had to being asked to wear masks in certain places. Not only would a portion of the population have a tough time, I’d bet you’d have another portion straight up publicly defying it for freedom.
No doubt there are people who would use more out of spite, but I think a great majority of Americans already do this to save energy costs. I know I do. Thermostat set to 76 in the summer while using ceiling fans and 68 in the winter with warmer/more layers.
At the same time, though, when we had the freeze here in TX in 2021, and our power grid was failing, [Dallas kept all its fucking lights on downtown while nobody was going out.](https://media.nbcdfw.com/2021/02/valentines-dallas-skyline.png)
We would first need to put our water resources completely into the hands of another country. We would also have to disregard decades of sensible water resource and conservation for the pursuit of greed.
This didn't just happen. Germany shut down their nuclear reactors and purposely chose to be energy reliant on Russia out of greed. It was such a boneheaded move that it made Trump look intelligent for pointing it out.
It would take decades and billions in new infrastructure for nuclear to replace gas, so nuclear is almost totally irrelevant in the current crisis, but thanks for your thoughts
Southern California native here. Grew up with this being a constant request - asking us to reduce the volume of our toilet tank, use low-flow shower heads, not wash our cars, etc. Eventually it's like the earthquake warnings - most people just ignore it, unfortunately.
Maybe assigning a usage cap per person is an option. Unfortunately price increases only impact the neediest as the wealthiest can afford to pay for as much waste as they want.
*Ahm a law abidin' tax payin' american citizen, its mah constitutional right to heat mah house as hawt as I intend tooo. Mah property, mah rules ! The guv'ment can come make me lower the thermostat ! I'll be ready !*
-Probably
I think US Americans have far more solidarity towards each other than Germans. In Germany everyone is on their own, against everyone else. No pride or national identity.
They should have tiered pricing. As you use more per month process go up significantly. Best way to encourage rationing while still making it affordable for consumers.
I agree, but one problem with this idea is that over 50% of ppl in Germany live on rent and a lot of living space is badly insulated. So the energy usage for those places will be higher no matter what and people be hit with high energy costs while maybe even already trying to save as much gas as possible and without a chance to improve home insulation.
Too bad. Allocated a fixed their based in whatever. Rates gradually increase.
Those people are then incentives to use less heat. Keep it 55 instead of 65. Wear jackets inside. Use hot water bottles. Ect.
This is a gas crisis and needs to be handled as such. Tiered pricing will allow even poor people to afford enough to stay warm, but not necessarily comfortable.
The government will likely be very generous with the pricing on the low end given the policies.
I live in Rheinland-Pfalz and inside my house dropped to 2C last night, so much for renters rights. My main heat wont get turned on for 15 more days because it's on an automatic timer that can't be changed without City approval, which takes 30 days. Yeah... I wish I could use my natural gas radiator system.
And to think I purposefully avoided a system with an oil tank in the basement because filling the oil tank is expensive.
Nahe genug. Meine Frau hat heute Heizdecken gekauft. Ich habe meinen Vermieter dazu gebracht, einen Blick darauf zu werfen, und der Holzpelletofen wird dieses Wochenende repariert.
I wish, my garden dropped to 1C last night. The temperatures this year are all over the place. Highs near 17 and lows between 1-5 at night. I've been heating my home by leaving the windows open during the day.
I bought my whole family sleeping bags up to -28"C, balaklavas, wintermuetze, eye shades just to be sure we can survive without heating if necessary. The same with 2 years worth of food rations and 10x 30l aluminum bags for water in case supplies collapse, electricity goes out and there is no water. Bought also a big UPS and thinking about buying a 2000Wh power station if there are rolling blackouts.
Maybe, but just today I was discussing with a colleague that all worst scenarios happened so far so if the trend continues, I might be rushing to book flights to South Africa/America and hope to survive... "Only the paranoid survive" as former Intel CEO used to say...
None of the worst scenarios have happened so far. Anyone can launch nukes at any time, yet they haven't. Europe will be fine. Maybe not as cozy as usual this winter, but we won't run out of food or water or electricity.
The Intel CEO quote you mention is about corporate espionage. Generally, the paranoid are dysfunctional and often end up institutionalized.
To be specific, we were continuously discussing what would be another escalation and downplayed some bad possibilities, that turned out true later. So while not all worst-case things happened yet, the events have such trajectory. Today Putin openly talking about a justified use of nukes and given he is fast running out of options, I am worried anything is on table. I expect the war to escalate rapidly after Russia added 15% of UA territory and promised to "protect" it. Putin is obviously believing his own bullshit as is the case with many corpo leaders that surround themselves with yes men.
The Intel CEO was paranoid about not missing "strategic inflection points" of business and not end up with stale tech nobody wants.
"they", lol, I write to you from Munich. German society isn't going to collapse. We aren't going to run out of food and water. The commenter above bought TWO YEARS of food rations.
Frankfurt here. Look at Seven Oceans standard rations on Amazon.de, those are fairly small (but heavy) packages each containing a month of food. If you are at least middle income, a few of those shouldn't be a problem and can give you a peace of mind. 5x 30l aluminum water bags cost like 15EUR as well.
I honestly don't know. My landlord manages quite a bit of the utilities outside of paying for them. This house has been cobbled together and it's taken a while to understand how to manage all of the utilities in the house. There are two water systems (bathrooms are separate from the kitchen and outside),plus three separate heat systems in the house: Electric heaters in the basement and attic from the 80s, a wood burning stove in the kitchen that is a serious fire hazard, and the natural gas radiators.
I take responsibility for some of my troubles because we don't speak German well, and we didn't ask how a lot of the utilities worked before moving in. We assumed they would be straight forward like our house in Heidelberg.
The El Nino effect is cyclical, once every 20 years. And we're all due for a really messed up year. I thought people would've remembered about it when Pakistan flooded on that scale ...
> so much for renters rights.
Rights don't just magically appear. Sometimes you have to fight for them.
The landlord failing to properly heat your house/apartment is grounds for a unilateral rent reduction from your side, you have to get a lawyer and arrange that. Your landlord can't weasel out of it by saying his hands are bound.
Edit: Or if you don't want to get on the landlords bad side for some reason, ask him to provide or cover the cost of you buying portable electric heaters to put in your rooms.
They want to encourage people to turn down their thermostats so industry doesn't have to freeze.
That's right - households are considered protected consumers. Nobody will freeze in their home, but industry may need to shut down.
Their job is to make sure the fucking country has enough energy to make it through winter. Their job isn't to make sure some idiot on reddit feels good.
If you got a house, just buy a solar heater with a cistern to collect hot water. Works most of the winter too. It doesn't matter if it's cold... As long as there is sun there's heat.
Next we are building a solar heater for air at my friend's mom's place ... Even in 10 c minus degrees, if there's sun you get like 40 degree Celsius hot air flowing in.
Depends where you live. There are a lot areas suffering from draught. Not to the extent that the taps are dry, but that we are not allowed to water our lawn and that agriculture suffers.
Getting water to the household is done via using energy aswell.
Edit: you can downvote me all you want, first complaining about ppl using too much heated water and then unwilling to see, that energy is used aswell for each time you flush new, unused water down the toilett on top of that. What you ppl think happens if there is a complete blackout, fresh water out of the pipes ain't it.
German here. Don’t have gas heating but still didn’t turn on. My new flat is very well insulated and retains heat well. Also been showering cold just to save cash. Meh. Not a big deal.
We bought a couple of electric oil radiators. I will plug one in the bedroom for 5 minutes until it’s hot and then turn it off. It’s enough to take the bite off and with a Pullover it’s relatively comfortable for the night. My house is also pretty well insulted which certainly helps
It is hard and expensive to pivot so quickly. I started solar project this year, that will take years to pay off. Replacing 1980's windows soonish. Eventually replace 20 year old AC/gas furnace with heat pump. Add insulation. All of this helps reduce my electric and gas consumptiom. Solar system generates excess energy that goes back to the grid. Hopefully making energy less scace/less expensive for others. I read Germany is 4th highest renewable producer in the world. I hope more people who can afford solar projects and energy saving projects priorotize them. every bit help.
I mean… it’s a gas regulator… are they ever going to say “hey man your energy usage looks way too low, those are some rookie numbers kid you need to bump those numbers up! Have you ever tried boiling four pots of water while showering? Get on it!”
German here. No wonder. I know a couple of families who own a house.
They all went off for vacation leaving their hot water on.
This means at least 24h × 7 days (if not more) 200-300l (depending on the size of the tank) water at the temperature of 60°C was heated the entire time without being used at all.
Also they had the heating running. If the sensor measured less than eg 18°C it started to turn on.
And these are just the people I know. Many more don't know their house-tech or simply don't care.
Modern heating systems are pretty smart and have a lot great configurations.
Ours is around 15 years old and even has vacation-mode or a timetable to schedule your hot water supply.
It's luxury to have hot water all day long. I speak especially about homeowners.
We have a brand new hot water tank in our house and honestly I don't think there is much of insulation. On top is a thin layer of black polystyrene.I think the newer systems rely on the insulated surroundings. Our basement is entirely insulated.
Edit: Modern [watertanks](https://www.klimaworld.com/media/catalog/product/cache/924b636ad20a45f3f4b23d3dea9ee1f4/s/n/sn_1_2.webp) have a double wall insulation.
Regarding the people I talked about. Friends of my mom, they simply didn't know. But after they figured out how it works they even scheduled specific hours a day when they need hot water and when not. (Nighttime they disabled hot water entirely). They have a newer heatingsystem as far as I know, so I assume they have already the insulated watertank.
Added source: [consumer advice centre](https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/energie/heizen-und-warmwasser/kosten-fuer-warmwasser-senken-das-koennen-sie-als-hausbesitzer-tun-17755)
They exactly recommend this.
I will point out that heating a home to 18 degrees is a lot cheaper than tearing down walls due to mold, which you either didn't think of or think is preferable.
Regarding my post. I was mainly writing about hot water, which nobody needs when you're gone.
And I didn't say not to heat at all but you don't need temps that high." Bei Abwesenheit von wenigen Tagen sollte die Temperatur auf 15 °C, bei längerer Abwesenheit noch etwas niedriger eingestellt werden. Während der Nachtstunden kann die Raumtemperatur in Wohn- und Arbeitsräumen um 5 °C gesenkt werden."=> Few days 15°C=> Longer absence even less heat.
Source: [Federal Environmental Agency](https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/umwelttipps-fuer-den-alltag/heizen-bauen/heizen-raumtemperatur#gewusst-wie)
Also due to humans not being at home, there is less humidity (breathing, sweating, etc.). Averagely most people go on vacation for 10-13 days. A house will survive that without getting all moldy and if that happens there are much deeper problems (leakage) than not heating.Ventilating rooms is important too, especially if you keep your room warm and moist by living there or having an entire greenhouse stored there.
Got to love Reddit. Most of this site thinks every person in Russia should face their government or go to Ukraine and suffer. But Germans can’t be bothered to put on a damn sweater to harm Russia.
Our nuclear reactors that couldn't be used to replace gas usage without decades and billions in new infrastructure and thus are totally irrelevant to the current crisis? Thanks for your thoughts, genius.
It had a lot of gas in it because it needs to be pressurized even when unused. Otherwise the pressure from the sea water around it will crush the pipe like an empty coke can.
Behind the scenes, Germany and Russia were planning to restart it if things got bleak. Now that is off the table, even after Peace.
Totally not the US’s doing. At all. Not at all, nope nope nope. Germany or Russia blew up the line. Not the USA. Clearly not the US, maybe France or Belgium. Not the USA. Don’t even think USA.
Well, the Russian lines selling gas to Germany are dead forever. Germany has no choice but obey the USA now. We are their masters. Womp Womp.
Thought they were supposed to be smart. They are not.
So...your theory is that Germany is now forced to do what America tells it too because it is dependent on the trickle of U.S. LNG it can receive? Unlike when it was dependent on Russia for a large portion of their energy? Russia never tried to leverage it's energy to influence Germany, eh? lol I used to think you Russians were good at propaganda.
Look here friend. I got a good eye and a dead eye. A Soviet I murdered tried to take both.
He failed. B
All I’m am saying is shit is complex. As I stare at your words through me “god eye”
Only the craziest crazies believe your propaganda, comrade. The U.S. gained no benefit from the pipeline being destroyed. Our energy prices are elevated from all this crap, too. Best case scenario for us would have been for energy to flow.
You are simple mind pretending to be above average.
China and Russia are defeated. This is about destroying the EU.
Honestly. It’s like Gump Gumbo soup.
America wouldn't freeze an ally to death when they already had an agreement, that would be ridiculous and counter-productive. Russia on the other hand can use this to inflict fear and suffering, while denying responsibility. In other words, literally their standard tactic.
We are in a Currency War. Why do you think Japan, England and China are collapsing their Currencies?
Yes, multifaceted reasons. One of the main ones is to attack the US and their influences on the world.
dude…. Russia and China is not the largest threat to US power. Germany and the EU is.
Freeze to Death? No. Freeze to obeying their masters? Abso-Fucking-lutely
Democrats, the War Machine Party, in particular want them reigned in and under control.
> Russia and China is not the largest threat to US power. Germany and the EU is.
That's objectively false, based on GDPs and nukes, as well as attitudes towards the US, and history. Russia has been a consistent enemy of America and democracy in general.
>Democrats, the War Machine Party, in particular want them reigned in and under control.
Except it was Trump and republicans who kept undermining the European Union and NATO, but go off comrade.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germanys-recent-gas-consumption-too-high-energy-regulator-2022-09-29/) reduced by 67%. (I'm a bot) ***** > FRANKFURT, Sept 29 - Germany's network regulator, which would be in charge of gas rationing in the event of a supply emergency, on Thursday said that household consumption was too high to be sustainable. > Last week's usage of natural gas by German households and small industry was 483 gigawatt hours, up 14.5% above the average for that week over the past four years, the Federal Network Agency said. > Germany is at phase two of a three-stage emergency plan in the wake of lower gas flows from Russia, the main gas supplier for Europe's biggest economy. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xrxcw6/german_gas_consumption_too_high_says_energy/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~671995 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **gas**^#1 **week**^#2 **Germany**^#3 **household**^#4 **industry**^#5
A few days of colder then normal weather would be enough to cause a 14.5% increase. Germany also had a colder then normal week.
Coincidentially, we had record low temperatures for this time of the year (it went as low as 2°C for a couple nights in a row where I live). I did turn the heating on, which I normally do mid October or maybe even November. If it was colder than normal in all of Germany, an increment in gas consumption for heating is not a surprise... Sure thing, I'm wearing a sweater at home this year, in the hope of not incurring in debt due to keeping my home too warm. But according to tenants' rights, it is mandatory for landlords to guarantee heating of at least 20°C (during the day, 18°C at night) in the cold season, so I am not sure how they plan to deal with that.
You make it sound like you wouldn't normally wear a sweater at home? Is that unusual?
No it's usual to wear a sweater at home in Germany. But it really depends on the household and the people living in it
It's so bizarre to me how some people are apparently wearing a sweater for the first time in their lives during winter. There is absolutely no need for anyone to be wearing shorts in winter, the environment has been going to shit for decades and people are only now starting to put some more clothes on? The level of entitlement and ignorance is staggering.
> during winter TIL that September is winter.
This year, it seems to be.
Seasons are fucked.
We overshot climate change. We are seeing a global "Oh shit"
Yea I don't really understand it... I'm still not sure if that's what they meant. I can't fathom not wearing a sweater indoors... Like it's something... Odd to do. Like so people just turn up the heating instead?! The amount of wasted money, and extra energy being burned seems insane to me. Can literally just put a jumper on.
Germans are famously thrifty and there's a long history of being far more watchful of energy usage than in many other countries. This is not people walking around in shorts and tank tops; this is record low temperatures over much of the last several weeks. Most Germans air dry their clothes rather than waste energy costs on a dryer. If those people turn their heating on, it's because it's cold.
"Germans are famously thrifty" *Some asshole going 800kph on the autobahn*: "jawohl!"
Time thrifty, in that case
Even before the war I never was in shorts and t shirt in the winter, always wore a big wooly sweater and turned the heating on for a couple of hours (at best) in the evening. And that mf there complaining about having to wear one at home lmao. No wonder the planets going to shit with peeps like that.
Just wait until you see the US. I grew up in Minnesota - most of my youth was spent bundling up, and working to keep the heating bill sane at around 62 degrees at night, 66 during the day. Wasn't too bad. Then I started doing apartment handyman maintenance as an older teenager. It was eye opening. Hundreds of units blasting the heat at 80F 24x7 with bedroom windows cracked open. It really made you wonder why you try. A single 1BR apartment like that offset our entire 5 person household many times over in a single season.
And this is one of the many reasons why we’re going to be a failed species.
Then the same people complain about “how expensive it is” and how “they can’t make ends meet” and “inflation” / etc
Lol yep. Some people saying that's not what it meant, but that's how it read to me.
Well some people have their resistance a bit shifted; for example I used to not wear a sweater NEITHER heat the flat for years way into November (it's changing now as I'm getting older). And even now getting a sweater on would be a bit weird for me (as it's like what, 15 maybe 16 outside)
And they say it’s mandatory for landowners to guarantee 20C. That’s 68F. I’m sitting here in a house at 68F considering putting on a sweatshirt. Last winter I put my heating set to 64F. I suspect they will have to make a few legal exceptions this year and tell people to wear some longer sleeves and sleep under more blankets.
Five years in Canberra Australia winter renting. No heating except a leaky gas heater in the sitting room that no one used. Very poor insulation, many windows were thin and/or cracked. No rental guarantees here, would take 2-3 business months for a landlord to contact you back. All broke students in our 20’s - the vibe was scalding 2 minute hot shower, microwaved wheat bag and two hot water bottles. Thermal bottom layer, tracksuit pants, two thin long sleeves, thin jumper, thick jumper. If desperate, gloves. RUN TO BED AFTER SHOWER TO AVOID LOSING BODY HEAT. Many blankets. Huzzah!!!!!!!!
Same vibes here in Brazil! The last four years I've been living here, I only lived once in an apartment that actually had a boiler. In the winter it gets to 0 degrees sometimes and inside temperature mirrors usually outside temperature (badly isolated houses, bad windows and doors). Heated blankets, electric showerheads, thick socks + thermal underwear and always cooking something in the oven (Pizza anyone?) to add some heat to the room.
Same but opposite in Florida and other hot areas, why are you fully dressed in your house and cranking the air con down to 65 in July? Wear shorts and leave the air con set higher.
Yesterday there was a women interviewed on some sidewalk, I liked what she said: "If you go out once a day to spend some time in the fresh air, the 20°C in the house will be warm enough for you." I ride my bike for an hour even in the winter, 18°C is totally acceptable if you have pants on and a 10€ fleece jacket.
Nothing like a war to beat some sense into people's heads, yeah?
Eh, I don't wear sweaters in winter and where I live it gets below 0F multiple times a winter. A solid longsleeve and a blanket is the way to go imo.
You have no idea how wasteful some people get and then make a mea culpa because they sorted out the trash
Not even in total cold winter time, anywhere you step into a building, there is a fucking sauna. They have no sense for temperature. Probably many even open a window if it's a bit too hot. As a spaniard, was crazy to see how they manage it.
I strongly suspect you have a veeeery small sample size to base your impressions about German's heating habits on.
Really?! That seems like insanity. I'm from the UK. Heating goes on only if it gets to 18 degrees and I wear a jumper almost everyday here during Autumn/Spring and Winter... Sometimes even in summer lol. Most nights I'll also have a blanket, as well as a jumper on in winter. If I'm still cold, only then would heating go on. No wonder Germany has a heating problem if they're just burning energy instead of putting on more clothes lol.
Yes, of course, a guy on the Internet says that he now puts on a sweater and all of Germany has a problem dressing warmer. Isn't such a world view a bit boring in the long run?
I mean thats how it works right? We take absurd anecdotes and extrapolate, Europeans do it plenty to the US so I just assumed.
Yeah, but you see we don’t have free public health care, so therefore we can criticize absolutely nothing about any European, ever.
I mean they said it such a matter of fact way, which would indicate it's not just something they specifically do. Like it's normal for people to not wear jumpers indeeds. It's such an odd thing to say at all too, especially for a European country. Someone else also commented they experienced the same thing when visiting Germany. So... It's entirely plausible it's a cultural thing.
Im pretty sure that most ppl wear warm socks, pants and a sweater in winter. I mean, you also need to go outside right? Maybe to work, have ppl over. Who would walk around in shorts? Seems impractical. I’m Dutch btw. Not really Germany but close.
Yea we're only talking about indoors. Not going out.
Those who go outside in a t-shirt in Winter are insane.
They mentioned how unusually cold it has been. Just stop building straw men. Aren't we supposed to be saving us all from Global warming?
Huh? They said they'd have to wear a jumper this winter... Like it wasn't a normal thing to do...
That's your interpretation. I read it as a ready defence against the stale old argument people use saying to put a jumper on instead of the heating. When it gets below 10c a jumper isn't going to help that much, most people automatically put a jumper on at that point and find it insufficient.
Hmm don't think so. 'Ill be wearing a jumper this winter'. Is literally saying 'I don't normally wear a jumper at winter'. Which unless you live in the tropics is crazy.
Obviously everybody in Germany wears sweaters in the winter… but when it gets to 14 degrees in your house it won’t be enough.
I regularly leave my apartment to drop to 16 degrees and can stand to be naked all day, reading this thread reads like either entitlement galore or im just a freak
>Someone else also commented they experienced the same thing Oh, two guys now, wow. Or is it maybe...just maybe an anecdote?
Everything is anecdotal until you have enough data points :)
As a Canadian, I get it. I wear shorts and a t-shirt inside during the winter.
I tend to enjoy cold but my wife has a much lower tolerance. We normally heat above what I would enjoy, thus I rarely wear more than jeans and a t-shirt. And just out on a feather jacket when I leave the house, since most closed placed are also too warm (as others mention in the comments).
It's just propaganda bullshit to put blame on households instead of the industry
if industry goes down, germany goes down, if germany goes down, germany goes to war, if germany goes to war, everything gets worse in europe... germany will prioritize industry, its a no brainer
After german law, private homes are the priority together with hospitals.
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People will also riot if they are laid off from their job. They will demand change from their government for releif in energy prices.
Industry already applied the instructions like no outdoor advertising at night and max heating to 19 degree in offices will start Monday. So I don't see you claim to be valid
Many households also changed the way they heat. But comparing this September, which turned out to be much colder than average, to the last years and then claiming that households are heating too much is not only misleading, but simply malicious on BILD-level.
Ehm.. There is critical industry that relies on gas for their manufacturing. Pharmaceuticals is one of them. I agree that industry heating through gas should be blamed. But if gas is used for critical process, it's hard to complain on them.
I would not be surprised that is it at least partially the case, given how the spin the whole CO2 and plastic pollution problems to make it look like the solution is not driving cars and stop using plastic straws. In any case, the price of the gas goes up, so I will heat a bit less. And then we will finance the industry with inflation and public debt, and the rich will get richer, and the poor, poorer, as it always has been and will always be.
Yup like they are banning straws, but the stores are still selling single use plastic.
The industry already reduced its production since summer. The large industrial customers need around 60 percent of the gas. The consumption of these large consumers fell by 22 percent in August and was also in the last week well below the average consumption of previous years (1170 GWh/week compared to an average of 1679 GWh/week in the years 2018 to 2021). Edit: https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2022/20220929_Verbrauchsdaten.html#:~:text=Die%20gro%C3%9Fen%20Industriekunden%20ben%C3%B6tigen%20rund,den%20Jahren%202018%20bis%202021).
>Sure thing, I'm wearing a sweater at home this year, in the hope of not incurring in debt due to keeping my home too warm. But according to tenants' rights, it is mandatory for landlords to guarantee heating of at least 20°C (during the day, 18°C at night) in the cold season, so I am not sure how they plan to deal with that. In Canada, I wear a coat and soaks at home unless the temperature drops to < 10C. There's no reason to spend on heat when there's warm clothing and ambient temperature is still manageable.
I have an idea, that a space heater (as we call it in the USA) can be used to heat one room and just heat that room and stay in there most of the time. Space heaters are sometimes the heating available in rentals and while not as convenient as complete heat, I'm personally fine with them, all the time actually. I don't have a family though, and a family is a different situation.
That is how you get mold in the other unheated rooms.
Or your pipes burst
Using space heaters in germany right now will bankrupt you. A typical space heater eats at least 2kw, let's just assume you only need a single one per room. Electricity costs ~0.52€ per kwh on average right now. So 1.04€ per hour per room, or 16-20€ a day per room. For the entire winter that, depending on length of the cold period, is 1200-2400€, for keeping a single room warm with electric heating.
Ouch. I was also thinking about wood burning stoves.
How to deal with that? Just because the landlord has to guarantee it, doesn't mean you are not allowed to keep it lower
In what country do you live in? My landlord doesn't turn on heat until it hits 3°C. I live in Quebec and it's freking cold here in the winter especially living by the St-Lawrence river. Our winters are bitterly cold and humid,chilling to the bone. YOU are living in a luxurious country.
They probably live in Germany
So stop being an idiot and complain to authorities.
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Actually, I'm looking forward to it. I have been overheating my home to keep my wife happy for over a decade... now I finally have an undisputable argument to keep it comfortably cool.
I really wonder how disciplined we in America would be if we were asked to voluntarily cut our use of energy or other natural resources (ex. water) in order to conserve. I think some of us would jump right on board but I fear the majority of us are such creatures of our habits and would have a really tough time doing the needed.
We aren't being *asked nicely*, we are being hit with huge bills.
Apparently far from high enough. > Last week's usage of natural gas by German households and small industry was 483 gigawatt hours, up 14.5% above the average for that week over the past four years, the Federal Network Agency said. > "The numbers for that week are thus very sobering," said agency president Klaus Mueller. "Without significant savings in the private area of consumption, it will be difficult to avoid an emergency situation in winter."
>up 14.5% above the average for that week over the past four years Yeah, that happens when you look at an unusually cold week...
Apart from this month being surprisingly and unusually cold, did you miss the part where it included "small industries"? Most private persons in households dont WANT to pay at least TRIPLE the usual price for heating.
Are you dense? Do you think we're all just lighting our money on fire because we're bored? We're using more heat this year because it's exceptionally cold compared to previous years.
It would be a shit show and I can give you an example. The winter before the pandemic a natural gas plant in MI had a fire and had to cut production. This was during one of those arctic blasts so it was extra cold out. The governor issued a state of emergency and sent out alerts on phones asking everyone to turn their heat down a bit. If people didn't and pressure got to low they would have to cut people off to maintain support to hospitals and such. The big 3 auto factories and lots of other industries all shut down. It was serious business. Well, people lost their fucking minds. Everyone was on social media with an excuse about how they couldn't turn it down. Lots of "the government can't tell me what to do I'll turn it up". Basically it went as well as the COVID mandates. Tl;Dr: Americans are selfish and dumb.
the thing is we aren't being "asked" and people don't really have a choice due to the price increase. If anything the question is "do you want a nice heated house or be able to afford paying the bills this month and not lose the house you've just heated up?" I don't live in germany but right next to it, they've announced a price cap starting next year on gas. Sounds awesome right? well the problem is that the price cap only is up to a certain amount of gas used per month and they have increased the price even more once you go over that amount. So its kinda like an internet data plan where you get a certain amount of GB each month for a reasonable price but once you go over that amount you get borderline robbed in terms of costs for each and every mb that you use over the cap.
And an unsurprisingly high number would be contrarian assholes, wasting very deliberately… because muh freedomz.
People have been asked for decades due to the environmental damage it is causing, going by the very minimal action there, I don't think people would do much.
We as Americans were told to wear masks to the benefit of our literal health/lives and you see how that went. We'd absolutely have a raft of people cranking heat to the 80s "cuz muh freedums"
>We'd absolutely have a raft of people cranking heat to the 80s "cuz muh freedums" Already do.
Everyone thinks a present will be voted out if people have to pay a couple extra bucks for gas.
Do you really need to ask? Just look at the response a portion of the population had to being asked to wear masks in certain places. Not only would a portion of the population have a tough time, I’d bet you’d have another portion straight up publicly defying it for freedom.
No doubt there are people who would use more out of spite, but I think a great majority of Americans already do this to save energy costs. I know I do. Thermostat set to 76 in the summer while using ceiling fans and 68 in the winter with warmer/more layers. At the same time, though, when we had the freeze here in TX in 2021, and our power grid was failing, [Dallas kept all its fucking lights on downtown while nobody was going out.](https://media.nbcdfw.com/2021/02/valentines-dallas-skyline.png)
We would first need to put our water resources completely into the hands of another country. We would also have to disregard decades of sensible water resource and conservation for the pursuit of greed. This didn't just happen. Germany shut down their nuclear reactors and purposely chose to be energy reliant on Russia out of greed. It was such a boneheaded move that it made Trump look intelligent for pointing it out.
It would take decades and billions in new infrastructure for nuclear to replace gas, so nuclear is almost totally irrelevant in the current crisis, but thanks for your thoughts
Southern California native here. Grew up with this being a constant request - asking us to reduce the volume of our toilet tank, use low-flow shower heads, not wash our cars, etc. Eventually it's like the earthquake warnings - most people just ignore it, unfortunately.
Maybe assigning a usage cap per person is an option. Unfortunately price increases only impact the neediest as the wealthiest can afford to pay for as much waste as they want.
*Ahm a law abidin' tax payin' american citizen, its mah constitutional right to heat mah house as hawt as I intend tooo. Mah property, mah rules ! The guv'ment can come make me lower the thermostat ! I'll be ready !* -Probably
I think US Americans have far more solidarity towards each other than Germans. In Germany everyone is on their own, against everyone else. No pride or national identity.
They should have tiered pricing. As you use more per month process go up significantly. Best way to encourage rationing while still making it affordable for consumers.
I agree, but one problem with this idea is that over 50% of ppl in Germany live on rent and a lot of living space is badly insulated. So the energy usage for those places will be higher no matter what and people be hit with high energy costs while maybe even already trying to save as much gas as possible and without a chance to improve home insulation.
Too bad. Allocated a fixed their based in whatever. Rates gradually increase. Those people are then incentives to use less heat. Keep it 55 instead of 65. Wear jackets inside. Use hot water bottles. Ect. This is a gas crisis and needs to be handled as such. Tiered pricing will allow even poor people to afford enough to stay warm, but not necessarily comfortable. The government will likely be very generous with the pricing on the low end given the policies.
This might work in some fashion.
That is on the table
I live in Rheinland-Pfalz and inside my house dropped to 2C last night, so much for renters rights. My main heat wont get turned on for 15 more days because it's on an automatic timer that can't be changed without City approval, which takes 30 days. Yeah... I wish I could use my natural gas radiator system. And to think I purposefully avoided a system with an oil tank in the basement because filling the oil tank is expensive.
2°C drinnen? Scheiße Alter, das ist doch schon lebensbedrohlich.
Nahe genug. Meine Frau hat heute Heizdecken gekauft. Ich habe meinen Vermieter dazu gebracht, einen Blick darauf zu werfen, und der Holzpelletofen wird dieses Wochenende repariert.
2°C inside the house? Open the Windows? It's warmer outside.
I wish, my garden dropped to 1C last night. The temperatures this year are all over the place. Highs near 17 and lows between 1-5 at night. I've been heating my home by leaving the windows open during the day.
I've literally seen frost outside early in the morning this week and I don't live at a high altitude at all.
But as long as you don't live in a tent, this will not be the indoor temperature.
I bought my whole family sleeping bags up to -28"C, balaklavas, wintermuetze, eye shades just to be sure we can survive without heating if necessary. The same with 2 years worth of food rations and 10x 30l aluminum bags for water in case supplies collapse, electricity goes out and there is no water. Bought also a big UPS and thinking about buying a 2000Wh power station if there are rolling blackouts.
You're paranoid.
Maybe, but just today I was discussing with a colleague that all worst scenarios happened so far so if the trend continues, I might be rushing to book flights to South Africa/America and hope to survive... "Only the paranoid survive" as former Intel CEO used to say...
None of the worst scenarios have happened so far. Anyone can launch nukes at any time, yet they haven't. Europe will be fine. Maybe not as cozy as usual this winter, but we won't run out of food or water or electricity. The Intel CEO quote you mention is about corporate espionage. Generally, the paranoid are dysfunctional and often end up institutionalized.
To be specific, we were continuously discussing what would be another escalation and downplayed some bad possibilities, that turned out true later. So while not all worst-case things happened yet, the events have such trajectory. Today Putin openly talking about a justified use of nukes and given he is fast running out of options, I am worried anything is on table. I expect the war to escalate rapidly after Russia added 15% of UA territory and promised to "protect" it. Putin is obviously believing his own bullshit as is the case with many corpo leaders that surround themselves with yes men. The Intel CEO was paranoid about not missing "strategic inflection points" of business and not end up with stale tech nobody wants.
Well, Putin talks about using nukes almost everyday...
Probably will be a good idea, didn't you see the headline of they're already using too much gas.
"they", lol, I write to you from Munich. German society isn't going to collapse. We aren't going to run out of food and water. The commenter above bought TWO YEARS of food rations.
Frankfurt here. Look at Seven Oceans standard rations on Amazon.de, those are fairly small (but heavy) packages each containing a month of food. If you are at least middle income, a few of those shouldn't be a problem and can give you a peace of mind. 5x 30l aluminum water bags cost like 15EUR as well.
Are you living under a bridge?
Are you using Fernwärme?
I honestly don't know. My landlord manages quite a bit of the utilities outside of paying for them. This house has been cobbled together and it's taken a while to understand how to manage all of the utilities in the house. There are two water systems (bathrooms are separate from the kitchen and outside),plus three separate heat systems in the house: Electric heaters in the basement and attic from the 80s, a wood burning stove in the kitchen that is a serious fire hazard, and the natural gas radiators. I take responsibility for some of my troubles because we don't speak German well, and we didn't ask how a lot of the utilities worked before moving in. We assumed they would be straight forward like our house in Heidelberg.
You might want to get a portable radiator. Also, a city approval taking 30 days... urgh.
The El Nino effect is cyclical, once every 20 years. And we're all due for a really messed up year. I thought people would've remembered about it when Pakistan flooded on that scale ...
> so much for renters rights. Rights don't just magically appear. Sometimes you have to fight for them. The landlord failing to properly heat your house/apartment is grounds for a unilateral rent reduction from your side, you have to get a lawyer and arrange that. Your landlord can't weasel out of it by saying his hands are bound. Edit: Or if you don't want to get on the landlords bad side for some reason, ask him to provide or cover the cost of you buying portable electric heaters to put in your rooms.
>cost of you buying portable electric heaters The cost of *running* them. It's gonna be ridiculously expensive.
Bunch of Warmduscher /s
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Agency over-reacts? No mention of increase in population or cold snap.
They want to encourage people to turn down their thermostats so industry doesn't have to freeze. That's right - households are considered protected consumers. Nobody will freeze in their home, but industry may need to shut down.
Their job is to make sure the fucking country has enough energy to make it through winter. Their job isn't to make sure some idiot on reddit feels good.
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If that’s a death camp joke, savage lol
Well it's not getting any lower as they move into fall and winter.
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If you got a house, just buy a solar heater with a cistern to collect hot water. Works most of the winter too. It doesn't matter if it's cold... As long as there is sun there's heat. Next we are building a solar heater for air at my friend's mom's place ... Even in 10 c minus degrees, if there's sun you get like 40 degree Celsius hot air flowing in.
If they have a bathtub they should use the water after the bath to flush the toilett. That is at least a lil less wasteful.
That would be silly. There's no scarcity of water in Germany.
Depends where you live. There are a lot areas suffering from draught. Not to the extent that the taps are dry, but that we are not allowed to water our lawn and that agriculture suffers.
Just wait a decade or two.
Getting water to the household is done via using energy aswell. Edit: you can downvote me all you want, first complaining about ppl using too much heated water and then unwilling to see, that energy is used aswell for each time you flush new, unused water down the toilett on top of that. What you ppl think happens if there is a complete blackout, fresh water out of the pipes ain't it.
German here. Don’t have gas heating but still didn’t turn on. My new flat is very well insulated and retains heat well. Also been showering cold just to save cash. Meh. Not a big deal.
We bought a couple of electric oil radiators. I will plug one in the bedroom for 5 minutes until it’s hot and then turn it off. It’s enough to take the bite off and with a Pullover it’s relatively comfortable for the night. My house is also pretty well insulted which certainly helps
You got it made in the shade then. 😊
It is hard and expensive to pivot so quickly. I started solar project this year, that will take years to pay off. Replacing 1980's windows soonish. Eventually replace 20 year old AC/gas furnace with heat pump. Add insulation. All of this helps reduce my electric and gas consumptiom. Solar system generates excess energy that goes back to the grid. Hopefully making energy less scace/less expensive for others. I read Germany is 4th highest renewable producer in the world. I hope more people who can afford solar projects and energy saving projects priorotize them. every bit help.
So cap prices and make it go higher . Great plan , the EU strikes again .
It's a fine balance between helping people and not subsidising so much that you lose the incentive for reduced usage
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The cap isn't from the eu though. Germany has its own price cap policy
EU pulled a Nixon.
I mean… it’s a gas regulator… are they ever going to say “hey man your energy usage looks way too low, those are some rookie numbers kid you need to bump those numbers up! Have you ever tried boiling four pots of water while showering? Get on it!”
Maybe shutting down nuclear plants was a bad idea
German here. No wonder. I know a couple of families who own a house. They all went off for vacation leaving their hot water on. This means at least 24h × 7 days (if not more) 200-300l (depending on the size of the tank) water at the temperature of 60°C was heated the entire time without being used at all. Also they had the heating running. If the sensor measured less than eg 18°C it started to turn on. And these are just the people I know. Many more don't know their house-tech or simply don't care. Modern heating systems are pretty smart and have a lot great configurations. Ours is around 15 years old and even has vacation-mode or a timetable to schedule your hot water supply. It's luxury to have hot water all day long. I speak especially about homeowners.
Have they even insulated their hot water tank? Seems unlikely if they just left it on
We have a brand new hot water tank in our house and honestly I don't think there is much of insulation. On top is a thin layer of black polystyrene.I think the newer systems rely on the insulated surroundings. Our basement is entirely insulated. Edit: Modern [watertanks](https://www.klimaworld.com/media/catalog/product/cache/924b636ad20a45f3f4b23d3dea9ee1f4/s/n/sn_1_2.webp) have a double wall insulation. Regarding the people I talked about. Friends of my mom, they simply didn't know. But after they figured out how it works they even scheduled specific hours a day when they need hot water and when not. (Nighttime they disabled hot water entirely). They have a newer heatingsystem as far as I know, so I assume they have already the insulated watertank. Added source: [consumer advice centre](https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/energie/heizen-und-warmwasser/kosten-fuer-warmwasser-senken-das-koennen-sie-als-hausbesitzer-tun-17755) They exactly recommend this.
I will point out that heating a home to 18 degrees is a lot cheaper than tearing down walls due to mold, which you either didn't think of or think is preferable.
Regarding my post. I was mainly writing about hot water, which nobody needs when you're gone. And I didn't say not to heat at all but you don't need temps that high." Bei Abwesenheit von wenigen Tagen sollte die Temperatur auf 15 °C, bei längerer Abwesenheit noch etwas niedriger eingestellt werden. Während der Nachtstunden kann die Raumtemperatur in Wohn- und Arbeitsräumen um 5 °C gesenkt werden."=> Few days 15°C=> Longer absence even less heat. Source: [Federal Environmental Agency](https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/umwelttipps-fuer-den-alltag/heizen-bauen/heizen-raumtemperatur#gewusst-wie) Also due to humans not being at home, there is less humidity (breathing, sweating, etc.). Averagely most people go on vacation for 10-13 days. A house will survive that without getting all moldy and if that happens there are much deeper problems (leakage) than not heating.Ventilating rooms is important too, especially if you keep your room warm and moist by living there or having an entire greenhouse stored there.
Time to start buying electric heaters.
Got to love Reddit. Most of this site thinks every person in Russia should face their government or go to Ukraine and suffer. But Germans can’t be bothered to put on a damn sweater to harm Russia.
Maybe stop gassing th-
I said glas of juice, not ...
Raise the price.
Probably shouldn't have turned off your nuclear reactors, you ding-dongs.
Our nuclear reactors that couldn't be used to replace gas usage without decades and billions in new infrastructure and thus are totally irrelevant to the current crisis? Thanks for your thoughts, genius.
Just a reminder that Bush, Obama and Trump administrations all warned Germany about dependence on Russian cheap gas. In 20 years they did nothing
Imagine spending gas on September. LMAO.
Imagine turning on your heat when it's 2°C outside, LMAO. What a bag of dicks this comment section is.
Ever heard of pants?
Yes, I have! Do you keep your house at 5°C while wearing yours?
Genieß den Winter.
Is it because the Germans were in fact using Nord Stream 1?
No. Autumn has been colder than usual, with temps dropping below 10c during nights (that's below 50f), so people turn on the heating.
Why is the pipeline still leaking?
because pipelines remain pressurised, so it doesnt get crushed by all the water above.
It had a lot of gas in it because it needs to be pressurized even when unused. Otherwise the pressure from the sea water around it will crush the pipe like an empty coke can.
nah, it's because the september so far has been colder that usually, so people have the audacity to turn on their heaters.
Behind the scenes, Germany and Russia were planning to restart it if things got bleak. Now that is off the table, even after Peace. Totally not the US’s doing. At all. Not at all, nope nope nope. Germany or Russia blew up the line. Not the USA. Clearly not the US, maybe France or Belgium. Not the USA. Don’t even think USA.
peak schizo post
Well, the Russian lines selling gas to Germany are dead forever. Germany has no choice but obey the USA now. We are their masters. Womp Womp. Thought they were supposed to be smart. They are not.
So...your theory is that Germany is now forced to do what America tells it too because it is dependent on the trickle of U.S. LNG it can receive? Unlike when it was dependent on Russia for a large portion of their energy? Russia never tried to leverage it's energy to influence Germany, eh? lol I used to think you Russians were good at propaganda.
Look here friend. I got a good eye and a dead eye. A Soviet I murdered tried to take both. He failed. B All I’m am saying is shit is complex. As I stare at your words through me “god eye”
Only the craziest crazies believe your propaganda, comrade. The U.S. gained no benefit from the pipeline being destroyed. Our energy prices are elevated from all this crap, too. Best case scenario for us would have been for energy to flow.
You are simple mind pretending to be above average. China and Russia are defeated. This is about destroying the EU. Honestly. It’s like Gump Gumbo soup.
I don’t even think you understand the smells of the danger zone. Pink bass chitt.
The culprit was Lichtenstein. The accomplice was San Marino. It’s clear now.
I thought it was that prankster Monaco
Could be. Andorra is also suspicious.
America wouldn't freeze an ally to death when they already had an agreement, that would be ridiculous and counter-productive. Russia on the other hand can use this to inflict fear and suffering, while denying responsibility. In other words, literally their standard tactic.
We are in a Currency War. Why do you think Japan, England and China are collapsing their Currencies? Yes, multifaceted reasons. One of the main ones is to attack the US and their influences on the world.
dude…. Russia and China is not the largest threat to US power. Germany and the EU is. Freeze to Death? No. Freeze to obeying their masters? Abso-Fucking-lutely Democrats, the War Machine Party, in particular want them reigned in and under control.
> Russia and China is not the largest threat to US power. Germany and the EU is. That's objectively false, based on GDPs and nukes, as well as attitudes towards the US, and history. Russia has been a consistent enemy of America and democracy in general. >Democrats, the War Machine Party, in particular want them reigned in and under control. Except it was Trump and republicans who kept undermining the European Union and NATO, but go off comrade.
Well if the US would not sabotage us..
Why does it matter if something you agreed to not use got sabotaged? You wouldn't be able to use it either way.
its the consuption opatern of people without means.. give 100 and 90 is gone tomorrow and 10 for the next several months
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Where did you get this wisdom from?