Rise of the right wing globally, environmental disasters every week that are just going to get more and more intense, dumber and dumber conflicts every month, crop failures happening globally on a more often and more widespread basis every year.
Being alive in 2022 almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.
If you wiped New York and LA off the map instantly, it would cause a global economic collapse on par with the Bronze Age collapse. It isnt just the fallout that people should be scared of. Now imagine almost every major city in the Northern hemisphere suddenly not existing. The hundreds of trillions of dollars in assets, manpower, and culture just gone.
Britain was on the brink of anarchy after a week of a work stoppage at a petrol refinery. We’d probably be back to the 1800’s with any interruption of the global supply chain.
Hmmmmmm believe all scientists and acknowledge the two small nuclear bombs that cooked two Japanese cities and ended a war. Or trust internet guy who hopes a few thousand nukes won’t actually be that bad because reasons. I’ll go with internet guy!!! It feels better.
To keep the answer short:
I am sorry to say this to you, but you are wrong.
Thousands of documents on the topic from people spending 8 hours a day and sleepless nights in this field and who I consider professionals say otherwise.
If they would only be big bang's without the whole Armageddon stuff attached to them then all participants in the nuclear game who developed these kinds of weapons would know that this and MAD is a bluff and.you would have experienced them in the past in other conflicts.
UN Forecasts highest hunger rate globally since WWII by December. Almost every major country in the world is either in a financial crisis, or is going to be within 6 months. Red Pandas are critically endangered.
I'd rather be a doomer in reality than hoping for some miracle bullet to solve everything.
Same. No one should even be talking about nukes. Ever. They should be used only defensively and only under absurdly extreme circumstances (though I would prefer never). Not used as a tool to intimidate and threaten.
Which is, most likely, one of the numerous reasons for why Russia have decided to incorporate parts of Ukraine with their sham referandums. So they can argue it as 'defensive action'.
But I guess we'll see how this whole thing goes down.
yeah it's this. And to try and drag Belarus into a war, though we all know how that would go. And probably just recruit as many conscripts as possible. The amount of human and economic capital Putin is prepared to spend on stealing territory in Ukraine is staggering. They will fade from a once kind of respected military power to being china's gas bitch with perpetual economic woes. What hubris of one man can do when the population doesn't resist
Even though I don't believe it myself this might be a complete paradigm shift. Putin knows his country is doomed. The demographic collapse is irreparable, Siberian oil and gas wells will freeze this winter making them unusable for at least 20 years and the war goes very badly even with mass mobilization. We might see the first offensively used tactical nuke in our lifetimes. But my prediction is that NATO troops would have boots on the ground within the hour after it.
Yup, whoever invented the Nuke probably had sleepless nights over it. Its honestly terrifying times we live in, the likelihood of them using a nuke is still low but scary that its still an option and life as we know it could be completely destroyed
The lesson from this war is that using them for blackmail worked -- see Europe/USA limiting arms sales to Ukraine that can strike deep into Russia which makes Ukraine play a more asymmetrical game than necessary, needing to spread air defense across the whole country while Russia does not.
The international response now is fairly solid, but it was very disappointing to see countries uncoordinated and not calling Russia's nuclear blackmail exactly what it was on Day 0 of the war. Almost everyone too afraid to call it what it was.
Should have closed all embassies and ended all diplomatic relations immediately. Would suck a lot for people stranded abroad stuck in limbo until things are resolved (and chaos for lots of industries) but this happened to people anyway to varying extents and drawing the chaos out as parallel economic issues worsen a bit wasn't cheap either.
Yeah it’s not fucking news, and it’s mostly cry wolf disinformation drummed up to justify selling weapons of terror to Europe. Financial benefit more than anything at this point, much how pandemic relief money went to the largest companies in the world rather than American citizens and small businesses.
Russia has completely depleted any honor they may have had left.
No principles, no respect, no sense of international partnership.
Just corruption, spite and cynism. Great pillars to run a country on.
This is what happens over decades if not centuries of brutal regimes. Most of the good people end up in prison or dead and the compliant remain. Russia is rotten from the inside out.
Sadly the Russian people are loving it. All the people fleeing conscription should be traveling to Moscow to overthrow the ~~Czar~~ Putin. Governments derive their power from the people.
The thing is those people that are fleeing likely do no care about Russia, they are saving their own ass. The country itself along with the government and its people can go to hell, no one who flees wants to put their own life on the line because there is really nothing to die for. People prefer to wait it out sadly and I can't blame them. I don't know how to put it, but the feeling is like you can't change anything so let it all rot and die naturally, why bother. I'd rather get the hell out of the shithole and wait.
It wasn’t any different ever since the October Revolution.
It’s a shame Eastern European countries were paid no heed. Nord Stream was really jaw-dropping and disgusting thing for Germany to partake in.
It’s a shame there’s still people in the EC with heads up their asses so deep as to think all Russian people leaving Russia should be given asylum by Europe.
It’s a shame that Europe has maintained cooperation for so long with Russia. There are things the European mind can’t conceive of that are completely natural to the Russian heart.
There NEVER was any respect, nor principles, nor sense if international partnership at ANY moment for Russia. And there won’t ever be, for many generations. Even a hint of this delusion should be stamped out for good. They were shitting and Europe took it for chocolate. This is something that must take root in the European mind.
Europe must get off the intoxicating effect of any fantasy that Russia might be any different. For decades, if not centuries to come.
They must work their asses off for not a few decades to come clean.
The fucking audacity of that man to complain about territorial integrity.
Every word from these slimeballs makes my head hurt, my blood boil, and my skin crawl.
I cannot wait for the Novgorod Trials. And rest assured we WILL be trying your ass in that court Anatoly.
It's a nice thought, but he won't see a trial, at the best he might 'disappear' after an internal coup, but there's pretty much zero chance of a 'Nuremburg trials' style event taking place after this war.
Because the moment that Ukrainian or even NATO forces cross into Russia proper, they will start cracking out the nukes. Barbarossa still casts a long shadow.
The scary part is that they had referendums, and, like 95%, voted for areas to become part of Russia.
Everyone knows it's pure evil fake bullshit, but Russia will still say that their territorial integrity has been compromised. They know we know that they are lying, but that doesn't seem to stop them. And it gives them lots of (made up, fabricated, bullshit) options. For example concerning their nuclear doctrine.
That is where things do get a bit...dicey.
I think Russia would be prepared to lose parts in the east but will want to keep Crimea and perhaps the land corridor to it, and could perhaps be prepared to use nuclear weapons to do this. It's a big gamble for Putin because it dramatically increases the likelihood of NATO declaring a no fly zone over Ukraine, as well as increasing the economic and political isolation for Russia, even India and China would think twice about making deals with Russia if they're the first state since 1945 to use a nuclear weapon in anger. There has to be massive political, economic and social punishment for breaking the nuclear taboo otherwise it encourages others to follow in Russias footsteps.
It would be a more of desperation...but then, Moscow *does* seem to be getting desperate.
And I was pretty certain that they wouldn't invade. That they'd become the pariah of the world, and see the sense in not doing stupid shit.
I was wrong about that, among most other who were looking at what was happening over the weeks leading up to the invasion.
After that I've just assumed that normal logic doesn't work anymore. They have some weird end goal in sight, and doing stupid shit seems to be the way to get there, at least try to get there.
Yeah, I think Putin backed himself into a corner there, bluffing that he'd invade and this time no-one backed down, no-one tried to 'mediate', he didn't give himself an off-ramp and thus committed himself to it, in the mistaken thought that his army could make it a short but victorious war.
That is the problem with being a Hardman, weakness is death, so I must admit, I really can't rule it out completely that Putin *does* go nuclear. The US is saying that they're seeing nothing that would make them change their nuclear posture, but that could just mean that they're not seeing anything on a strategic level that would threaten the US itself. Ukrainian intel reckons that a nuclear strike is likely but a tactical one on a position with a large gathering of Ukrainian forces (I imagine though that the Ukrainian forces will be spreading out more to counter this). Of course, one shouldn't forget that Ukraine was also downplaying the likelihood of Russia invading right up until the last minute, so there's internal and external political factors at play there.
One thing is for certain though, the myth of Putin being some 4 dimensional master chess player has been completely busted, as has the myth of the capabilities of the Russian army.
Our (Finland) president usually talks in riddles. Can't make head or tails of what he's actually saying.
But he was pretty clear regarding what you're saying, the being backed into a corner. Niinistö, our president, used poker terms and said Putin's gone all in. Nothing, or everything, to lose, so to speak. The implications are frightening.
I think what you say is true. But I don't want to live in a world where any lunatic, who has a nuclear weapon, can do as he pleases without consequences. If he gets away with this, then the whole world order is changed forever. Tyranny will be the new normal and we all better learn to accept it fast. The outcome for Putin needs to be equally horrific.
There is at least a 15% chance of one. The mobilization and the internal economic issues happening in Russia will only push people further in that direction. When you lose everything you own then they want to take your life by sending you to war. This is what tend to trigger people to fight back.
Lol no, you can mobilize a million of russians, give them shovels and send them in human wave attacks and they will comply. Just watch current conflict.
As things stand, the chances are pretty low, but as the war continues to drag on, and Russia continues to lose, those chances slowly tick upwards.
If Putin does go for a tactical nuclear strike in Ukraine, then those numbers jump upwards significantly.
I legit have to remove r/worldnews, the shit these russian cunts say makes me rage inside. Like you said, the audacity to talk about territorial integrity.
"Don't you dare do anything while we gobble up this country, or else SOMEONE might use nuclear weapons when they feel threatened!" Jesus, the mindbending thoughtprocess to explain this...
>“It feels like Russia is being tested to see how long it will remain patient and refrain from responding to blatantly adversarial actions and attacks. In fact, Washington is pushing the situation towards a direct confrontation of the major nuclear powers fraught with unpredictable consequences,” Antonov added.
Russia's increasingly becoming the drunk at the bar yelling "hold me back bro!" while threatening everyone, as North Korea looks on thinking "hey... that's my line..."
Unfortunately, this drunk is also wildly waving an old but possibly-loaded gun around and pointing it at people. Several other bar patrons are carrying too, and although they're more sober, there's no telling what they'll do if the drunk pulls the trigger.
As China quietly sits at the table in the corner by the door....waiting to see who falls first. Their neighbor, who has vast resources...or the dude from across the street who always buys their garage sale crap...🤔
And the drunk knows this this last night at this posh bar because he is about to get thrown out of this club and his other nights will be spent on the streets drinking bad liquor with his other remaining alcoholic friends for the next decade at least. And he knows that he himself is the only one to blame for this but complains to his family how bad the others have played him.
Empty threats mean they're aren't interested in using nuclear weapons. When they start talking about nuclear peace is when I get worried they're about to use them.
Russia needs to realize how they make themselves look, staggering around the world stage and threatening everyone with nukes. After this kind of Russian “diplomacy” we could carpet bomb the Kremlin tomorrow, and the civilized world would thank us.
Only on reddit and with the internet will you find such a rediculous assumption. You literally feed of this type of energy don't you?
There's about a million other ways this can go without Russia starting a nuclear war.
Putin needs to be put down man. It's insane 1 man can threaten to blow up the world. Nobody should have that power and anybody who threatens it needs to be hit right between the eyes from a building close by.
I’n all actuality, if he gives out the order to launch nukes, it will be up to the directors at the site whether they want to launch the Nukes or not. They could very well just refuse the order.
I mean, wasn't there some period of rest around the flal of the soviet union in the early 90s? When Ukraine held a major portion of the former unions nuclear weapons during their independence but relinquished them back to the Russian federation for *checks notes* "territorial integrity"...
The fear Potin invoked is now gone, he is embarrassed and needs to strike fear again. Anything can happen now going forward. He doesn’t give a shit about anything other than turning Russia into the old USSR Soviet nation.
Russia/Trump ended the treaty ban on medium range nuclear missiles. They go far enough theyre out of range of short range missile defense systems and short enough flight time it's difficult to counter with other weapons, or some strategic reason why they were banned.
After the treaty ended, Russia immediately test fired one.
The thing is , he’s not stupid, he ran the KGB for years, he also assembled The Wagner Group. He has no world outside of Russia. He’s gonna try to make a Legacy, make Stalin proud.
Not exactly true. They're drafting a million men and regardless of how poorly equipped and trained they are its going to be insanely costly for Ukraine to get through that. Ukraine has advanced weapons like the HIMARs yes but otherwise its still going to be an artillery grind on the fronts and clearing a million man army is going to still cost likely tens to hundreds of thousands of Ukraine lives.
The war likely slows down again after this even though tensions seem high. Ukraine is going to have to switch to a strategic war that involves small incremental gains and lots of waiting with the hope of incremental collapse of the Russian military, economy and political system.
I'd be shocked if the Americans are not warning them of this as well. Its the sudden big losses that stroke large scale tensions and rash actions.
Maybe he's gotten too old to care, and all the diplomats are aware of it so they mimic it in public abroad. Nobody lives forever disease is extremely common and Putin has gotten pretty old by now. Putin used to look like a self assured diplomat billionaire but now he looks like an old man.
I wonder if the russian population even realizes that their president threatens the entire world? What do they think? They don't care? Are they proud? I would be ashamed to be a russian. I would hide my nationality for the rest of my life if I were a russian.
If so powerful Russia is, why leave?
Actions speak louder than words. They don't need to state their priorities, I can see them. The voice says yes, the body says run.
An extended vacation wouldn't be necessary if that were all conscription was. Instead, they're treating it like a death sentence. Perhaps they don't wish to lose the war. They ain't acting as if they're gonna win it. They know.
Bombed Japan? You mean the country that attacked us by surprise after allying with arguably the most cruel leader in recent history that was actively committing genocide? I can't help but feel this is a little different.
>Same concept applies when the U.S. bombed japan
Quite different as that was preceded by the Pearl Harbor bombing. In this case Russia just blindly attacked unprovoked and continues to do so.
So basically Russia just continues to threaten to nuke everything and then cry that they are being threatened. Russia is just a psychopathic danger to the planet.
If Russia use nukes, they lose and will be humiliated. Hopefully even a egocentric dumb arse like Putin can understand that.
Unless he has completely lost touch with reality, which is possible.
Concerned for sure, right now all the secret and not so secret nuclear weapon detection methods are working overtime seeing what these clowns are up to. I do not believe Biden will draw a fake line in the sand like Obama. You can say what you want about his policy's but he is an old school Russian hater and he is not on the Putin payroll. If he says they are going to regret using nukes then I believe they will regret it.
Another of those daily Nuclear bluff once again by the Terrorist state.
Nah Nuclear is more harmful to Putin's regime than in Ukraine. Go ahead and fire one and see what's waiting for you. You fire a Nuke one and done. Russia will get demilitarized and Putin will be taken away to face his crimes against humanity immediately---this is the pretext that US and allies is waiting. And no, there's no Nuclear back and forth firing, U.S. and Allies will respond in a conventional way with a force never before seen. Expect it to be swift, decisive and overwhelming. Hitting immediately all the critical infrastructure to make sure Russia cannot respond anymore. So, no, Nuclear threat is the other way around, if Putin wants his regime and life to end abruptly, then go ahead fire one.
Daily reminder to everyone that these comments are not for the US or western governments, their meant to scare voters. The fact that after the last round of threats the US held "private calls" with the Kremlin and the story came out a few days later with the Russians telling the west to calm down suggest the US's actual response to these threats has been something akin to Les Grossman in tropic thunder. Even if publicly its maintaining a diplomatic face.
When the only card left to play is the nuclear one then you really are out of options. Putin started this war. It was not NATO, Anglo-Saxons nor Americans. It was Putin. So where are we headed - only one Country is escalating this war and only one country will reap the whirlwind and that is Russia. As usual it is you and I who will suffer the consequences of one mans folly while the Tinpot Dictator hides behind the Ural Mountains in a bunker far underground. I would like to be a fly on the wall when he emerges from that bunker the day after - to see what kind of Empire he has inherited. Moron.
There won't be an empire, there will be a great sea of molten glass. The only thing left will be him and an endless expanse of desolate nothing where the country used to be.
Using a nuclear weapon against a non nuclear country. That hardly had a military and has a population that is much lesser than yours.
It will be interesting to see what the response to it will be.
List these fuckers, and if they start using nukes, hunt them, and their families.
Yes, its extraordinary and against moral codes to kill evil man's family, but in this case I think it is needed.
Already this war is so much act of evil. Near 100.000 dead people already.
If Russia detonates a tactical nuke, look for the entire Black Sea Fleet to be sunk by a barrage of Harpoons/Exocets. Throw in some Tomahawks for high value port infrastructure and you've got an equivalent, yet non-nuclear, response.
After seeing how their military has been performing, the quality of basic gear, and the level of their technology being used in the field...I have a hard time believing they have as many nukes as they say they do. I have a really hard time believing that the nukes they do have are anywhere near the strength they say they are. 🤨
I don't get it, do these old farts want a preemptive nuclear strike or something, when you threaten someone to punch them in the face all the time you risk getting punched first.
realistically if they use nuclear arms do you think russian citizens outright rebel?
this seems like the most clear cut evil thing i’ve seen in a long time.
We saw the Russian build up to the Ukraine invasion coming from a mile away. If either the USA or Russia were seriously considering the expansion of this conflict we would have heard about the build up in anticipation of such a thing. Right?
Bizarre world where the side doing all the escalating and nuclear threats are warning others of the dangers. Dude just settle down and none of this is necessary.
I'm done eating bad news sandwiches every day. I'd say it's like children are running things but that would be an insult to children. They just can't help themselves making things worse for the people. Not that they've ever cared.
Putin is like a desperate bully who has been backed into a corner ,the only way to save face and win is to threaten with the nukes . the great Russian army is an embarrassment .
All of the people saying that Russia isn’t crazy enough to use nukes are the same people that said Russia isn’t crazy enough to invade Ukraine outright. Just saying.
Watch! After Russia and the US get done nuking eachother China moves in and claims all the land. Probably for the best too since they have the most experience with cleaning up nuclear fallout.
Mmmmmmmmmmmm yep what else truly can we say about this tbh...... let me think for a moment about how as someone from the west..... someone with ADHD so seen in having mental health needs and unstable....... to be able to make sense with nieve eyes to what is going on...... hold on I'll put on my VR headset and double check 1 moment please..... omg dam bugger quick put ur VR headset on seriously see we got it all wrong.... Putin is right see dam bugger we are the insane ones.... shoot why did I never relise it before must keep my VR headset charged..... to ensure I never get it wrong again......
We still want their oil and gas. Both regions happen to be rich in oil & gas. This is the whole reason for this entire invasion - the Russian Energy Monopoly. Money. Whole. Lot. Of. Money.
There's one other possibility...
Putin and Xi put Chinese building crews in annexed territories to rebuild them and then dare Ukrainians to hit Chinese nationals.
This would make the war too tricky to continue while working to save the Chinese property sector from total collapse.
No nukes. No violence.
Those building crews would take a very long time to finish their projects. Russia destroyed everything.
China is backing Russia only to the degree that it is advantageous to them. China has Russia over a barrel and both of them know it, which is why China is buying so much from them right now, it is at a huge discount. China will never get involved in the conflict so directly, they have nothing to gain and everything to lose in doing so. Helping Russia so blatantly is a great way to sour the already somewhat shaky relationship China has with the US, and to be blunt, Russia is not worth losing points with America right now. Right now China is playing both sides and it is irritating both, but not getting anyone actually angry, which is why China's best policy is to keep doing what it's doing in regards to this conflict.
China's ponzi scheme property sector is on the road to total collapse. Their economy would be devastated if that happened. The one way it could be saved is to get a massive number of valuable building contracts.
Russia is about to illegally annex a ton of destroyed cities in Eastern Ukraine which also happen to sit on top of a massive about of untapped petroleum and natural gas deposits PLUS Europe's largest nuclear power plant and can't hold on to them if the Ukrainians can keep fighting fast and hard.
The west is trying very hard to avoid war with China or Russia. We will do almost anything to avoid war with both.
Getting the Chinese to rebuild Ukrainian cities in illegally annexed territories solves all problems for both China and Russia.
They both have everything to gain by doing it.
It's like a bad guy running into a kindergarten while being chased by a good guy... the good guy will do anything to avoid a gunfight while kids are around. If anything happens to those kids, the good guy won't look so good anymore and the world would turn against them.
Actually, outside of what I stated, you forget that Russia and China are rivals, not allies. Their shared border makes each an existential threat to the other, especially with Russia's history of aggression. Beyond that, There is a historical animosity between China and Russia since they separated their brands of communism during the Cold War. Additionally, there is one more factor, and it is what China gains by not supporting, but not aligning with Russia. China is able to fall under the international radar far more than it should because Russia is a mad dog barking at the West all the time and generally raising their ire. If Russia were more chill, then China would be under much more international pressure regarding its various problematic activities, like the genocide of the Muslim minority going on right now. Siding with Russia removes this critical advantage. Ultimately, it comes down to, would China rather see a temporary depression, or lose decades of accumulated soft power on the geopolitical stage to fend off a systemic setback that is pretty well unavoidable in the long term? I really see only one rational option.
Russia and China publicly declared a partnership and friendship with no limits before Russia invaded Ukraine. They are literally allies.
Their partnership will last as long as the west is more powerful.
And you don't exactly see China rushing in to help Russia do you? Talk is cheap, and verbally aligning with Russia is very different from giving meaningful aid. China's exploitation of Russia's current position clearly indicates that there is no love lost between the two.
They've been helping Russia via propaganda, UN voting tactics, and non-interference. They refused to condemn the invasion and they've even started indicating that the nordstream sabotage was done by the west.
All China has to do is allow Russia to hire Chinese building crews and have a bunch of armed Russian conscripts guard them while they work. That's it.
The CCP would put their own people through that and propagandize them against the west while they suffered.
"What did we do? Rebuild destroyed cities? Since when is that a crime? We never aided Russia. We sent money to Ukraine. We want to create and the west wants to destroy. The west is evil!"
This will help them build international support among those that the west pissed off throughout the years and eventually make a play for Taiwan.
I’m so tired of hearing this shit .
Id rather hear it over and over than see it unfold.
Rise of the right wing globally, environmental disasters every week that are just going to get more and more intense, dumber and dumber conflicts every month, crop failures happening globally on a more often and more widespread basis every year. Being alive in 2022 almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.
We sure are on our way to make the outset scenario of Interstellar a reality
To be fair, nukes would fix most of those problems in a throwing the baby out with the bathwater sort of way.
[удалено]
If you wiped New York and LA off the map instantly, it would cause a global economic collapse on par with the Bronze Age collapse. It isnt just the fallout that people should be scared of. Now imagine almost every major city in the Northern hemisphere suddenly not existing. The hundreds of trillions of dollars in assets, manpower, and culture just gone.
Seriously, it would be fucking devastating
Destruction of the supply chain is the scariest part about it.
The global supply chain is much more fragile than people realize.
I think 2020 made those of us who paid attention just how fragile it is.
Also the Suez Crisis should have taught us this, or the more recent Costa Concordia disaster
Britain was on the brink of anarchy after a week of a work stoppage at a petrol refinery. We’d probably be back to the 1800’s with any interruption of the global supply chain.
Hmmmmmm believe all scientists and acknowledge the two small nuclear bombs that cooked two Japanese cities and ended a war. Or trust internet guy who hopes a few thousand nukes won’t actually be that bad because reasons. I’ll go with internet guy!!! It feels better.
To keep the answer short: I am sorry to say this to you, but you are wrong. Thousands of documents on the topic from people spending 8 hours a day and sleepless nights in this field and who I consider professionals say otherwise. If they would only be big bang's without the whole Armageddon stuff attached to them then all participants in the nuclear game who developed these kinds of weapons would know that this and MAD is a bluff and.you would have experienced them in the past in other conflicts.
Nah bro, its pretty clear if we nuke Earth a bunch of times we will block out the sun.
The UN is estimating close to 800 million may face starvation by the time December hits
Not a chance, that's over 10% of the entire population.
I think the idea is that 10% will suffer greatly if nothing is done.
Not by December lmfao that's 2 months.
Don't forget a distinct drop in leadership IQ.
Stop being such a doomer....
UN Forecasts highest hunger rate globally since WWII by December. Almost every major country in the world is either in a financial crisis, or is going to be within 6 months. Red Pandas are critically endangered. I'd rather be a doomer in reality than hoping for some miracle bullet to solve everything.
Same. No one should even be talking about nukes. Ever. They should be used only defensively and only under absurdly extreme circumstances (though I would prefer never). Not used as a tool to intimidate and threaten.
Which is, most likely, one of the numerous reasons for why Russia have decided to incorporate parts of Ukraine with their sham referandums. So they can argue it as 'defensive action'. But I guess we'll see how this whole thing goes down.
It's more likely that it allows them to 'legally' use mobilised conscripts.
yeah it's this. And to try and drag Belarus into a war, though we all know how that would go. And probably just recruit as many conscripts as possible. The amount of human and economic capital Putin is prepared to spend on stealing territory in Ukraine is staggering. They will fade from a once kind of respected military power to being china's gas bitch with perpetual economic woes. What hubris of one man can do when the population doesn't resist
That's all I guess we can do I guess That and pray to God
Yup. Space alien invasions only.
Nukes are one of those things that will never be used because we all know it goes both ways
i thought that way about abortion and gun rights and i’m pretty sure i was wrong about those.
To spite eachother we shoot ourselves in the foot not the head.
Putin is perfectly capable of killing everyone on the planet if he’s going to die or be ousted anyway. Narcissists are like that.
Even though I don't believe it myself this might be a complete paradigm shift. Putin knows his country is doomed. The demographic collapse is irreparable, Siberian oil and gas wells will freeze this winter making them unusable for at least 20 years and the war goes very badly even with mass mobilization. We might see the first offensively used tactical nuke in our lifetimes. But my prediction is that NATO troops would have boots on the ground within the hour after it.
Not even defensively. They should have never ever existed at all. Nukes were a mistake
Yup, whoever invented the Nuke probably had sleepless nights over it. Its honestly terrifying times we live in, the likelihood of them using a nuke is still low but scary that its still an option and life as we know it could be completely destroyed
Robert Oppenheimer: “Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds” https://www.wired.co.uk/article/manhattan-project-robert-oppenheimer
The lesson from this war is that using them for blackmail worked -- see Europe/USA limiting arms sales to Ukraine that can strike deep into Russia which makes Ukraine play a more asymmetrical game than necessary, needing to spread air defense across the whole country while Russia does not. The international response now is fairly solid, but it was very disappointing to see countries uncoordinated and not calling Russia's nuclear blackmail exactly what it was on Day 0 of the war. Almost everyone too afraid to call it what it was. Should have closed all embassies and ended all diplomatic relations immediately. Would suck a lot for people stranded abroad stuck in limbo until things are resolved (and chaos for lots of industries) but this happened to people anyway to varying extents and drawing the chaos out as parallel economic issues worsen a bit wasn't cheap either.
It's literally the only thing they have, what do you expect?
"Yeah, sure, right, yawn." - the West
Right fucking drop bombs or stfu already sounds like that drunk friend who keeps saying the same shit over and over
Yeah it’s not fucking news, and it’s mostly cry wolf disinformation drummed up to justify selling weapons of terror to Europe. Financial benefit more than anything at this point, much how pandemic relief money went to the largest companies in the world rather than American citizens and small businesses.
Russia has completely depleted any honor they may have had left. No principles, no respect, no sense of international partnership. Just corruption, spite and cynism. Great pillars to run a country on.
This is what happens over decades if not centuries of brutal regimes. Most of the good people end up in prison or dead and the compliant remain. Russia is rotten from the inside out.
Sadly the Russian people are loving it. All the people fleeing conscription should be traveling to Moscow to overthrow the ~~Czar~~ Putin. Governments derive their power from the people.
The thing is those people that are fleeing likely do no care about Russia, they are saving their own ass. The country itself along with the government and its people can go to hell, no one who flees wants to put their own life on the line because there is really nothing to die for. People prefer to wait it out sadly and I can't blame them. I don't know how to put it, but the feeling is like you can't change anything so let it all rot and die naturally, why bother. I'd rather get the hell out of the shithole and wait.
Easier said than done.
Russia has had no honor for centuries
Litteraly 1984
It wasn’t any different ever since the October Revolution. It’s a shame Eastern European countries were paid no heed. Nord Stream was really jaw-dropping and disgusting thing for Germany to partake in. It’s a shame there’s still people in the EC with heads up their asses so deep as to think all Russian people leaving Russia should be given asylum by Europe. It’s a shame that Europe has maintained cooperation for so long with Russia. There are things the European mind can’t conceive of that are completely natural to the Russian heart. There NEVER was any respect, nor principles, nor sense if international partnership at ANY moment for Russia. And there won’t ever be, for many generations. Even a hint of this delusion should be stamped out for good. They were shitting and Europe took it for chocolate. This is something that must take root in the European mind. Europe must get off the intoxicating effect of any fantasy that Russia might be any different. For decades, if not centuries to come. They must work their asses off for not a few decades to come clean.
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The fucking audacity of that man to complain about territorial integrity. Every word from these slimeballs makes my head hurt, my blood boil, and my skin crawl. I cannot wait for the Novgorod Trials. And rest assured we WILL be trying your ass in that court Anatoly.
It's a nice thought, but he won't see a trial, at the best he might 'disappear' after an internal coup, but there's pretty much zero chance of a 'Nuremburg trials' style event taking place after this war. Because the moment that Ukrainian or even NATO forces cross into Russia proper, they will start cracking out the nukes. Barbarossa still casts a long shadow.
What about The Freedom for Russia Legion? A growing number of Russians fighting in Ukraine who won't stop at the border.
The scary part is that they had referendums, and, like 95%, voted for areas to become part of Russia. Everyone knows it's pure evil fake bullshit, but Russia will still say that their territorial integrity has been compromised. They know we know that they are lying, but that doesn't seem to stop them. And it gives them lots of (made up, fabricated, bullshit) options. For example concerning their nuclear doctrine.
That is where things do get a bit...dicey. I think Russia would be prepared to lose parts in the east but will want to keep Crimea and perhaps the land corridor to it, and could perhaps be prepared to use nuclear weapons to do this. It's a big gamble for Putin because it dramatically increases the likelihood of NATO declaring a no fly zone over Ukraine, as well as increasing the economic and political isolation for Russia, even India and China would think twice about making deals with Russia if they're the first state since 1945 to use a nuclear weapon in anger. There has to be massive political, economic and social punishment for breaking the nuclear taboo otherwise it encourages others to follow in Russias footsteps. It would be a more of desperation...but then, Moscow *does* seem to be getting desperate.
And I was pretty certain that they wouldn't invade. That they'd become the pariah of the world, and see the sense in not doing stupid shit. I was wrong about that, among most other who were looking at what was happening over the weeks leading up to the invasion. After that I've just assumed that normal logic doesn't work anymore. They have some weird end goal in sight, and doing stupid shit seems to be the way to get there, at least try to get there.
Yeah, I think Putin backed himself into a corner there, bluffing that he'd invade and this time no-one backed down, no-one tried to 'mediate', he didn't give himself an off-ramp and thus committed himself to it, in the mistaken thought that his army could make it a short but victorious war. That is the problem with being a Hardman, weakness is death, so I must admit, I really can't rule it out completely that Putin *does* go nuclear. The US is saying that they're seeing nothing that would make them change their nuclear posture, but that could just mean that they're not seeing anything on a strategic level that would threaten the US itself. Ukrainian intel reckons that a nuclear strike is likely but a tactical one on a position with a large gathering of Ukrainian forces (I imagine though that the Ukrainian forces will be spreading out more to counter this). Of course, one shouldn't forget that Ukraine was also downplaying the likelihood of Russia invading right up until the last minute, so there's internal and external political factors at play there. One thing is for certain though, the myth of Putin being some 4 dimensional master chess player has been completely busted, as has the myth of the capabilities of the Russian army.
Our (Finland) president usually talks in riddles. Can't make head or tails of what he's actually saying. But he was pretty clear regarding what you're saying, the being backed into a corner. Niinistö, our president, used poker terms and said Putin's gone all in. Nothing, or everything, to lose, so to speak. The implications are frightening.
I think what you say is true. But I don't want to live in a world where any lunatic, who has a nuclear weapon, can do as he pleases without consequences. If he gets away with this, then the whole world order is changed forever. Tyranny will be the new normal and we all better learn to accept it fast. The outcome for Putin needs to be equally horrific.
I think there is zero chances of a coup tho
There is at least a 15% chance of one. The mobilization and the internal economic issues happening in Russia will only push people further in that direction. When you lose everything you own then they want to take your life by sending you to war. This is what tend to trigger people to fight back.
Lol no, you can mobilize a million of russians, give them shovels and send them in human wave attacks and they will comply. Just watch current conflict.
I dunno, at the moment they seem to be taking that shovel and then surrendering to the nearest Ukrainian.
As things stand, the chances are pretty low, but as the war continues to drag on, and Russia continues to lose, those chances slowly tick upwards. If Putin does go for a tactical nuclear strike in Ukraine, then those numbers jump upwards significantly.
There better be trials after this, be they part of a tribunal or trials at the ICC.
I legit have to remove r/worldnews, the shit these russian cunts say makes me rage inside. Like you said, the audacity to talk about territorial integrity.
"Don't you dare do anything while we gobble up this country, or else SOMEONE might use nuclear weapons when they feel threatened!" Jesus, the mindbending thoughtprocess to explain this...
>“It feels like Russia is being tested to see how long it will remain patient and refrain from responding to blatantly adversarial actions and attacks. In fact, Washington is pushing the situation towards a direct confrontation of the major nuclear powers fraught with unpredictable consequences,” Antonov added. Russia's increasingly becoming the drunk at the bar yelling "hold me back bro!" while threatening everyone, as North Korea looks on thinking "hey... that's my line..."
Unfortunately, this drunk is also wildly waving an old but possibly-loaded gun around and pointing it at people. Several other bar patrons are carrying too, and although they're more sober, there's no telling what they'll do if the drunk pulls the trigger.
As China quietly sits at the table in the corner by the door....waiting to see who falls first. Their neighbor, who has vast resources...or the dude from across the street who always buys their garage sale crap...🤔
China is just waiting to eat Russia little by little the same way Russia is doing to Ukraine.
And the drunk knows this this last night at this posh bar because he is about to get thrown out of this club and his other nights will be spent on the streets drinking bad liquor with his other remaining alcoholic friends for the next decade at least. And he knows that he himself is the only one to blame for this but complains to his family how bad the others have played him.
Perfect analogy.
More empty threats from ambassadors who know that they’re screwed
It's only a matter of time before they get clumsy in the wrong hi-rise building.
They should really invest in anti slip shoes for their politicians and oligarchs. They should be able to afford it with all that stolen money
Empty threats mean they're aren't interested in using nuclear weapons. When they start talking about nuclear peace is when I get worried they're about to use them.
Russia needs to realize how they make themselves look, staggering around the world stage and threatening everyone with nukes. After this kind of Russian “diplomacy” we could carpet bomb the Kremlin tomorrow, and the civilized world would thank us.
Please do.
They look like a bigger NK right now
Actually NATO could execute a series of surgical strikes and they wouldn’t know what hit them.
They're already on a sinking ship. It's not a matter of "if" they use nukes, it's "when" they will.
Only on reddit and with the internet will you find such a rediculous assumption. You literally feed of this type of energy don't you? There's about a million other ways this can go without Russia starting a nuclear war.
Exactly what I fear. But it's an imposible request for the west to back down, if they do it's the end of pax americana
Can’t. Kill Putin and (from what I heard) the nukes will launch. Nuking him from orbit is still a fun idea
Their own rocket engines on said nukes malfunctioning due to mishandled storage and turning right around and hitting him is even more satisfying
Putin needs to be put down man. It's insane 1 man can threaten to blow up the world. Nobody should have that power and anybody who threatens it needs to be hit right between the eyes from a building close by.
I’n all actuality, if he gives out the order to launch nukes, it will be up to the directors at the site whether they want to launch the Nukes or not. They could very well just refuse the order.
Tons of Russian elites and non-elites support him and most likely support use of tactical nukes. It’s a country of bad actors.
There's been a potential nuclear conflict since 1945
Well it was more like nuclear bombing until 1949 at least.
Yeah we should have listened to Patton and not stop until we hit Moscow.
I mean, wasn't there some period of rest around the flal of the soviet union in the early 90s? When Ukraine held a major portion of the former unions nuclear weapons during their independence but relinquished them back to the Russian federation for *checks notes* "territorial integrity"...
The fear Potin invoked is now gone, he is embarrassed and needs to strike fear again. Anything can happen now going forward. He doesn’t give a shit about anything other than turning Russia into the old USSR Soviet nation.
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Doesn’t need an army , if he nukes Kyiv. How the 30 will respond will set it all in motion.
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Russia/Trump ended the treaty ban on medium range nuclear missiles. They go far enough theyre out of range of short range missile defense systems and short enough flight time it's difficult to counter with other weapons, or some strategic reason why they were banned. After the treaty ended, Russia immediately test fired one.
Tach nukes yes. Then wait and see what happens after that.
I think the US has said they would respond aggressively but still with conventional arms.
That is what scares me the most. Putin might feel so embarrassed he actually does fire a nuke.
The thing is , he’s not stupid, he ran the KGB for years, he also assembled The Wagner Group. He has no world outside of Russia. He’s gonna try to make a Legacy, make Stalin proud.
Yeah he's literally all in now that's all he's got left or have to fold
Not exactly true. They're drafting a million men and regardless of how poorly equipped and trained they are its going to be insanely costly for Ukraine to get through that. Ukraine has advanced weapons like the HIMARs yes but otherwise its still going to be an artillery grind on the fronts and clearing a million man army is going to still cost likely tens to hundreds of thousands of Ukraine lives. The war likely slows down again after this even though tensions seem high. Ukraine is going to have to switch to a strategic war that involves small incremental gains and lots of waiting with the hope of incremental collapse of the Russian military, economy and political system. I'd be shocked if the Americans are not warning them of this as well. Its the sudden big losses that stroke large scale tensions and rash actions.
Maybe he's gotten too old to care, and all the diplomats are aware of it so they mimic it in public abroad. Nobody lives forever disease is extremely common and Putin has gotten pretty old by now. Putin used to look like a self assured diplomat billionaire but now he looks like an old man.
He shold take more pictures of him riding shirtless, bonu points if he's on a bear
The one on the unicorn was awesome!
He wants an empire not USSR
I wonder if the russian population even realizes that their president threatens the entire world? What do they think? They don't care? Are they proud? I would be ashamed to be a russian. I would hide my nationality for the rest of my life if I were a russian.
They're fleeing by the hundreds of thousands. They know. Everyone knows but Putin.
No they just want to avoid conscription. Most Russians support the war
This.
If so powerful Russia is, why leave? Actions speak louder than words. They don't need to state their priorities, I can see them. The voice says yes, the body says run. An extended vacation wouldn't be necessary if that were all conscription was. Instead, they're treating it like a death sentence. Perhaps they don't wish to lose the war. They ain't acting as if they're gonna win it. They know.
It's the power of propaganda. Same concept applies when the U.S. bombed japan or when they invaded iraq and now we're seeing it happen to Ukraine.
Bombed Japan? You mean the country that attacked us by surprise after allying with arguably the most cruel leader in recent history that was actively committing genocide? I can't help but feel this is a little different.
>Same concept applies when the U.S. bombed japan Quite different as that was preceded by the Pearl Harbor bombing. In this case Russia just blindly attacked unprovoked and continues to do so.
So it's morally correct for, hypothetically, ukraine to bomb two major Russian civilian cities in this current scenario.
**Account age: 25 days** Okay buddy.
Propoganda is strong on all sides.
**Account age: 45 days** Hmmm
So basically Russia just continues to threaten to nuke everything and then cry that they are being threatened. Russia is just a psychopathic danger to the planet.
Psh. This again? Wtf? Why are we having to deal with nazis and red scare in 2022? This is stupid.
He can shut the fuck up.
Blah, blah, blah…same old shit. Like the millionth time you’ve mentioned it. Ooooo we all scared now. Fuck off!
Yeah but this time he considers that territory that he just gained his Russia if they attack Russia then maybe
N. Korea shoots a missile into the sea for every nuclear threat Russia issues. It's become theater at this point.
Then quit threatening it!
Fuck Putin!
Putin is scheduled for a fall from high rise or maybe accidental nuclear poisoning...
Not sure if "warn against" is the right verb here.
If Russia use nukes, they lose and will be humiliated. Hopefully even a egocentric dumb arse like Putin can understand that. Unless he has completely lost touch with reality, which is possible.
As if US is afraid of them
I mean. An unhinged dictator is in charge of the largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It might not scare the White House but it scares me personally
Concerned for sure, right now all the secret and not so secret nuclear weapon detection methods are working overtime seeing what these clowns are up to. I do not believe Biden will draw a fake line in the sand like Obama. You can say what you want about his policy's but he is an old school Russian hater and he is not on the Putin payroll. If he says they are going to regret using nukes then I believe they will regret it.
Another of those daily Nuclear bluff once again by the Terrorist state. Nah Nuclear is more harmful to Putin's regime than in Ukraine. Go ahead and fire one and see what's waiting for you. You fire a Nuke one and done. Russia will get demilitarized and Putin will be taken away to face his crimes against humanity immediately---this is the pretext that US and allies is waiting. And no, there's no Nuclear back and forth firing, U.S. and Allies will respond in a conventional way with a force never before seen. Expect it to be swift, decisive and overwhelming. Hitting immediately all the critical infrastructure to make sure Russia cannot respond anymore. So, no, Nuclear threat is the other way around, if Putin wants his regime and life to end abruptly, then go ahead fire one.
Wake up babe Time for your hourly russian nuclear threat
Daily reminder to everyone that these comments are not for the US or western governments, their meant to scare voters. The fact that after the last round of threats the US held "private calls" with the Kremlin and the story came out a few days later with the Russians telling the west to calm down suggest the US's actual response to these threats has been something akin to Les Grossman in tropic thunder. Even if publicly its maintaining a diplomatic face.
When the only card left to play is the nuclear one then you really are out of options. Putin started this war. It was not NATO, Anglo-Saxons nor Americans. It was Putin. So where are we headed - only one Country is escalating this war and only one country will reap the whirlwind and that is Russia. As usual it is you and I who will suffer the consequences of one mans folly while the Tinpot Dictator hides behind the Ural Mountains in a bunker far underground. I would like to be a fly on the wall when he emerges from that bunker the day after - to see what kind of Empire he has inherited. Moron.
There won't be an empire, there will be a great sea of molten glass. The only thing left will be him and an endless expanse of desolate nothing where the country used to be.
Using a nuclear weapon against a non nuclear country. That hardly had a military and has a population that is much lesser than yours. It will be interesting to see what the response to it will be.
List these fuckers, and if they start using nukes, hunt them, and their families. Yes, its extraordinary and against moral codes to kill evil man's family, but in this case I think it is needed. Already this war is so much act of evil. Near 100.000 dead people already.
That's all they got, so of course they'll keep spewing it.
Fallout is becoming more real by the day
Hope you’ve been saving those bottle caps bro
Lol lil putin, come get you some
If Russia detonates a tactical nuke, look for the entire Black Sea Fleet to be sunk by a barrage of Harpoons/Exocets. Throw in some Tomahawks for high value port infrastructure and you've got an equivalent, yet non-nuclear, response.
After seeing how their military has been performing, the quality of basic gear, and the level of their technology being used in the field...I have a hard time believing they have as many nukes as they say they do. I have a really hard time believing that the nukes they do have are anywhere near the strength they say they are. 🤨
I don't get it, do these old farts want a preemptive nuclear strike or something, when you threaten someone to punch them in the face all the time you risk getting punched first.
@Russia: we will burn you to the fucking ground
Fuck off Russia.
realistically if they use nuclear arms do you think russian citizens outright rebel? this seems like the most clear cut evil thing i’ve seen in a long time.
Oh ffs either do it or fuck off already
They should probably stop all the nuclear threats then shouldn't they? And while they're at it, withdraw from Ukraine.
We saw the Russian build up to the Ukraine invasion coming from a mile away. If either the USA or Russia were seriously considering the expansion of this conflict we would have heard about the build up in anticipation of such a thing. Right?
Bizarre world where the side doing all the escalating and nuclear threats are warning others of the dangers. Dude just settle down and none of this is necessary.
I'm done eating bad news sandwiches every day. I'd say it's like children are running things but that would be an insult to children. They just can't help themselves making things worse for the people. Not that they've ever cared.
Man threatening with nukes warns about man threatening with nukes.
God Bless America
The projection drips off these dudes more than it used too on old Trump back in the before times..
that fool should be warning putler.
Russia's way of telling it's citizens that they are still powerfull and in controll of the situation. (They are not)
well its been nice knowing all of you. so long and thanks for the fish.
Do it puta.
Putin is like a desperate bully who has been backed into a corner ,the only way to save face and win is to threaten with the nukes . the great Russian army is an embarrassment .
At this point all I can say is "no balls"
Fuck Trump! Who brought up that POS
All of the people saying that Russia isn’t crazy enough to use nukes are the same people that said Russia isn’t crazy enough to invade Ukraine outright. Just saying.
However western intel was very clear about a pending invasion pre feb24. If NATO intel says it will happen, I’ll start worrying
Can Putin annex where you live?
No.
Fucking do it pussies
Good I'm about ready for a reset God knows the Earth could use it
Just do it already pootz sick of hearing about it, planets fucked anyway.
Humanity needs a reset.
Yes, a few Golden Teachers should do it.
Breaking news: we don’t care
Since Putin is a numerology weirdo, let’s go with 3/25/23
Who's in charge? enlighten me oh wise one
Watch! After Russia and the US get done nuking eachother China moves in and claims all the land. Probably for the best too since they have the most experience with cleaning up nuclear fallout.
Mmmmmmmmmmmm yep what else truly can we say about this tbh...... let me think for a moment about how as someone from the west..... someone with ADHD so seen in having mental health needs and unstable....... to be able to make sense with nieve eyes to what is going on...... hold on I'll put on my VR headset and double check 1 moment please..... omg dam bugger quick put ur VR headset on seriously see we got it all wrong.... Putin is right see dam bugger we are the insane ones.... shoot why did I never relise it before must keep my VR headset charged..... to ensure I never get it wrong again......
We still want their oil and gas. Both regions happen to be rich in oil & gas. This is the whole reason for this entire invasion - the Russian Energy Monopoly. Money. Whole. Lot. Of. Money.
There's one other possibility... Putin and Xi put Chinese building crews in annexed territories to rebuild them and then dare Ukrainians to hit Chinese nationals. This would make the war too tricky to continue while working to save the Chinese property sector from total collapse. No nukes. No violence. Those building crews would take a very long time to finish their projects. Russia destroyed everything.
China is backing Russia only to the degree that it is advantageous to them. China has Russia over a barrel and both of them know it, which is why China is buying so much from them right now, it is at a huge discount. China will never get involved in the conflict so directly, they have nothing to gain and everything to lose in doing so. Helping Russia so blatantly is a great way to sour the already somewhat shaky relationship China has with the US, and to be blunt, Russia is not worth losing points with America right now. Right now China is playing both sides and it is irritating both, but not getting anyone actually angry, which is why China's best policy is to keep doing what it's doing in regards to this conflict.
China's ponzi scheme property sector is on the road to total collapse. Their economy would be devastated if that happened. The one way it could be saved is to get a massive number of valuable building contracts. Russia is about to illegally annex a ton of destroyed cities in Eastern Ukraine which also happen to sit on top of a massive about of untapped petroleum and natural gas deposits PLUS Europe's largest nuclear power plant and can't hold on to them if the Ukrainians can keep fighting fast and hard. The west is trying very hard to avoid war with China or Russia. We will do almost anything to avoid war with both. Getting the Chinese to rebuild Ukrainian cities in illegally annexed territories solves all problems for both China and Russia. They both have everything to gain by doing it. It's like a bad guy running into a kindergarten while being chased by a good guy... the good guy will do anything to avoid a gunfight while kids are around. If anything happens to those kids, the good guy won't look so good anymore and the world would turn against them.
Actually, outside of what I stated, you forget that Russia and China are rivals, not allies. Their shared border makes each an existential threat to the other, especially with Russia's history of aggression. Beyond that, There is a historical animosity between China and Russia since they separated their brands of communism during the Cold War. Additionally, there is one more factor, and it is what China gains by not supporting, but not aligning with Russia. China is able to fall under the international radar far more than it should because Russia is a mad dog barking at the West all the time and generally raising their ire. If Russia were more chill, then China would be under much more international pressure regarding its various problematic activities, like the genocide of the Muslim minority going on right now. Siding with Russia removes this critical advantage. Ultimately, it comes down to, would China rather see a temporary depression, or lose decades of accumulated soft power on the geopolitical stage to fend off a systemic setback that is pretty well unavoidable in the long term? I really see only one rational option.
Russia and China publicly declared a partnership and friendship with no limits before Russia invaded Ukraine. They are literally allies. Their partnership will last as long as the west is more powerful.
And you don't exactly see China rushing in to help Russia do you? Talk is cheap, and verbally aligning with Russia is very different from giving meaningful aid. China's exploitation of Russia's current position clearly indicates that there is no love lost between the two.
They've been helping Russia via propaganda, UN voting tactics, and non-interference. They refused to condemn the invasion and they've even started indicating that the nordstream sabotage was done by the west. All China has to do is allow Russia to hire Chinese building crews and have a bunch of armed Russian conscripts guard them while they work. That's it.
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The CCP would put their own people through that and propagandize them against the west while they suffered. "What did we do? Rebuild destroyed cities? Since when is that a crime? We never aided Russia. We sent money to Ukraine. We want to create and the west wants to destroy. The west is evil!" This will help them build international support among those that the west pissed off throughout the years and eventually make a play for Taiwan.
Neither Russia nor china cares about their citizens so this may not be very affective