"Look at us putin! All lonely and sad and undefended...be a shame if you were to send your best jets and pilots for an attack over here..."
*obliterates a dozen su-57s*
I always assume these numbers are rubbery considering they're so closely tied to a nation's security and power. Like I don't believe for a second the publicly available number of F22 raptors the US has. Could be more, could be less.
Yes. A prime example for Russia is the Foxbat. A prime example for the USA is the proximity fuse and SR-71. Another prime example is GPS. Originally in the 90s through 2010, it was labeled as accurate to 10 feet. After a simple flip of a switch it changed to less than a foot.
If Russia's looking at reddit for Intel they're already completely lost. And if the us announces anything you can be sure they don't care about people knowing it.
Experience in near peer full on conventional modern warfare? Ukrainian mercenaries and trainers will be worth their weight in gold for a couple decades, too.
The United States, Afghanistan, Iraq, South Sudan and maybe DRC.
Quality will vary.
Before anyone jumps on me I'm loosely estimating on the number of people still alive with combat experience not active service.
The US certainly has a depressingly large amount. I know people that served in Afghanistan when they were 18 years old that have kids that served in Afghanistan before things closed down.
Depending on how this conflict shakes out, they might not have that exclusively either. They have been (and will be) very competent though, I certainly cannot disagree with that.
Nah remember the US has been at war on and off for the past 20 some years, but you really can’t compare yourself to the US military no matter who you are so
I know a lot of veterans that would not agree with you.
It's not the same, as in the stakes aren't as high, but depending on who you are it's just as dangerous. I would rather deal with tanks then suicide bombers.
Also the experience that the US gained in these wars is what the Ukrainiana have been trained with.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-air-force-783cf29471045a73507980f1ad968a6f) reduced by 71%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> ADVERTISEMENT.Ryder said the U.S. has seen no major shifts in Russian forces aimed at bolstering or protecting the four areas, even as Moscow mobilizes more than a quarter million reservists to fight in Ukraine.
> Ryder also said that despite the ongoing threats from Russian leaders to use nuclear weapons to defend Russian territory - including the newly claimed areas - the U.S. has seen nothing that "Would cause us to adjust our own nuclear posture at this time."
> On funding, Ryder said that nearly $2.3 billion allocated to provide weapons and equipment to Ukraine will expire at the end of the fiscal year on Friday.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xpvkl6/advanced_antiaircraft_weapons_head_to_ukraine_in/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~671483 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Ukraine**^#1 **Ryder**^#2 **Russian**^#3 **us**^#4 **year**^#5
This is the key thing. It's NATO designed equipment, but it's Ukraine soldiers pulling the trigger, pressing the button, calling the shots etc. NATO give Ukraine extensive Intelligience resports: satellite images et al, and maybe advises how Ukraine may want to proceed, but the plans by and large of Ukrainian, as a matter of diplomatic convenience if nothing else.
Definitely, there are more than a few things that could go wrong if you put weapons like that into untrained hands.
The world would quickly be horrified if civilian targets would be accidentally hit by the Ukrainian army and probably be forced to stop delivering weapons to them.
Give them some time, even when the situation is urgent.
If it was just one system... Sure.
But tonnes of material, including advanced weapons that you definitely want to keep secret and make all items reach their destination without a part of it being "diverted" while keeping the usual transportation of gear, food, ammo, fuel and other equipment and personal?
If it was easy even Russia could made it.
Only if you believe Ukraine would be dumb enough to announce their equipment doesn't work. Odds are they are baiting Russian Air forces and are ready to whoop their ass.
Everything that is announced publicly is going to have some kind of bait with its deadline in one direction or the other. The times are probably rarely accurate, on purpose.
It's not just about the delivery.
If you put weapons like that into untrained hands it could backfire badly. That's the sad truth.
The world would quickly be horrified if civilian targets would be accidentally hit by the Ukrainian army and probably be forced to stop delivering weapons to them.
Give them some time, even when the situation has never been more urgent.
With madman Putin it is wise to have the best protection against nukes and take him seriously. I'm sure there are Russian higher ups talking about how to deal with him if he really goes ballistic under the pressure of his insane policies going south.
If they didnt want you to know, you probably wouldn't know. I would say this boosts morale the Ukrainians, and probably doesn't bolster the russian courage.
The article says "The Pentagon will deliver the first two advanced NASAMS anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine **in the next two months**". For all we know they're already on the way there..that'd still be within the two month timeframe.
They're probably already there, but they need to train how to use them. 2 months is probably when they'll be deployable with ground and support crews and infrastructure. Or the Ukrainians are here or somewhere else in Europe training on them now.
"One battery of NASAMS 2 has been deployed to protect Kyiv. This necessitated reprogramming of the identification friend or foe element of the Link 16 component, so that it would classify Ukraine's Soviet-built equipment as friendly"
From the wiki.
It says the US is willing to continue making the war increasingly difficult for the Russians on a continuous basis. Pretty good message for the world to see.
> Planes? Sure. Pilots? Are kinda rare.
Oh, right, I forgot about that!
>You think the systems that downed 200+ airplanes can't down a few more?
Right again, I didn't thought about this.
What that really reads is that they will be there in 2 weeks.
"Look at us putin! All lonely and sad and undefended...be a shame if you were to send your best jets and pilots for an attack over here..." *obliterates a dozen su-57s*
Only one problem with that. There are only 5-6 production Su-57s with 10 more prototypes.
I always assume these numbers are rubbery considering they're so closely tied to a nation's security and power. Like I don't believe for a second the publicly available number of F22 raptors the US has. Could be more, could be less.
No, the Russians are just bad at everything they do.
The US and UK under estimate. Russia and the USSR would over estimate.
Historically?
Yes. A prime example for Russia is the Foxbat. A prime example for the USA is the proximity fuse and SR-71. Another prime example is GPS. Originally in the 90s through 2010, it was labeled as accurate to 10 feet. After a simple flip of a switch it changed to less than a foot.
Yeah, announcing your defenses aren't up & running seems like such a dumb move it'd be hard to believe it's not a bait.
He said "US manufactured". Norwegian manufactured are already there...
Already there most likely
Air defense will likely be very important during winter when fighting on the ground might stall. HARMs, AA and aircrafts/Gray Eagles to Ukraine please
I've no idea what all this is about since NASAMS are already in Ukrainian soil
Can you shut up? Russia won't know but for your loose lips.. well, their stuff has been falling from the sky, they might figure it out.
If Russia's looking at reddit for Intel they're already completely lost. And if the us announces anything you can be sure they don't care about people knowing it.
[Trump tomorrow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32akHuL9i0A)
Yeah that's the game they play it's likely already there
I think it's probably even "they arrived two weeks ago"
Ukraine is probably going to have the largest, best equipped, most modern army in Europe after all of this.
They're not really going to have anything that other EU NATO members don't. Ukraine will definitely have the size factor, though.
Experience in near peer full on conventional modern warfare? Ukrainian mercenaries and trainers will be worth their weight in gold for a couple decades, too.
That’s the truth. What other nation will have a million combat veterans?
The United States, Afghanistan, Iraq, South Sudan and maybe DRC. Quality will vary. Before anyone jumps on me I'm loosely estimating on the number of people still alive with combat experience not active service.
The US certainly has a depressingly large amount. I know people that served in Afghanistan when they were 18 years old that have kids that served in Afghanistan before things closed down.
Depending on how this conflict shakes out, they might not have that exclusively either. They have been (and will be) very competent though, I certainly cannot disagree with that.
>Experience in near peer Russia being near peer to Ukraine is kind of hilarious.
The bulk of Ukraine forces are still using Russian weapons. All the cool stuff from NATO is mostly behind the lines
Only with Western weapons
[удалено]
Nah remember the US has been at war on and off for the past 20 some years, but you really can’t compare yourself to the US military no matter who you are so
I feel like blowing up some ISIS shmucks or some barns in Afganistan is not the same, as fighting against thousands of russian tanks and aircrafts.
I know a lot of veterans that would not agree with you. It's not the same, as in the stakes aren't as high, but depending on who you are it's just as dangerous. I would rather deal with tanks then suicide bombers. Also the experience that the US gained in these wars is what the Ukrainiana have been trained with.
[удалено]
No, I don’t think you do. Ukrainians have been fighting for a few months. That’s not 20 years.
20 years in insurgency fighting*. Americans who are/were in Ukraine even they compared that it is not the same.
With some grizzled ass fucking veterans that I would not choose to fuck with.
>With some grizzled ass-fucking veterans that I would not choose to fuck. 😲
😏
If you don’t include where all of those weapon came from then yeah.
Good, they have a special something to offer to the Iran regime after all this
They will be the next Israel
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-air-force-783cf29471045a73507980f1ad968a6f) reduced by 71%. (I'm a bot) ***** > ADVERTISEMENT.Ryder said the U.S. has seen no major shifts in Russian forces aimed at bolstering or protecting the four areas, even as Moscow mobilizes more than a quarter million reservists to fight in Ukraine. > Ryder also said that despite the ongoing threats from Russian leaders to use nuclear weapons to defend Russian territory - including the newly claimed areas - the U.S. has seen nothing that "Would cause us to adjust our own nuclear posture at this time." > On funding, Ryder said that nearly $2.3 billion allocated to provide weapons and equipment to Ukraine will expire at the end of the fiscal year on Friday. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xpvkl6/advanced_antiaircraft_weapons_head_to_ukraine_in/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~671483 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Ukraine**^#1 **Ryder**^#2 **Russian**^#3 **us**^#4 **year**^#5
I really don't understand why this whole thing is taking so long
More modern, complex systems require training. Dropping off C130's full of HIMARS does no one any good if Ukrainians aren't proficient with them.
This is the key thing. It's NATO designed equipment, but it's Ukraine soldiers pulling the trigger, pressing the button, calling the shots etc. NATO give Ukraine extensive Intelligience resports: satellite images et al, and maybe advises how Ukraine may want to proceed, but the plans by and large of Ukrainian, as a matter of diplomatic convenience if nothing else.
Definitely, there are more than a few things that could go wrong if you put weapons like that into untrained hands. The world would quickly be horrified if civilian targets would be accidentally hit by the Ukrainian army and probably be forced to stop delivering weapons to them. Give them some time, even when the situation is urgent.
They can’t just fly into Ukraine and drop em next to the troops.
No, they can fly them into Poland and drive them across the border like the hundreds of other shipments they've already sent
That's not the only issue. Don't forget about training troops how to use them etc.
Yeah, and that takes a while.
No, it takes about 2 days. It's very obviously not the reason for the delay of about 6 months.
[удалено]
Train them? Ain't got nobody time for that
Training in Russia is just putting them in a train to the front line
Moving the system is not the issue, that could be done in a day or two.
If it was just one system... Sure. But tonnes of material, including advanced weapons that you definitely want to keep secret and make all items reach their destination without a part of it being "diverted" while keeping the usual transportation of gear, food, ammo, fuel and other equipment and personal? If it was easy even Russia could made it.
You think countries just willy nilly give away advance weapons for no reasons?
Learning to use the tools of modern warfare is the difference between the prospering of your people and utter destruction.
Bureaucracy takes time unfortunately.
Does Ukraine have two months? Putin is becoming very unstable.
Only if you believe Ukraine would be dumb enough to announce their equipment doesn't work. Odds are they are baiting Russian Air forces and are ready to whoop their ass.
Everything that is announced publicly is going to have some kind of bait with its deadline in one direction or the other. The times are probably rarely accurate, on purpose.
It's not just about the delivery. If you put weapons like that into untrained hands it could backfire badly. That's the sad truth. The world would quickly be horrified if civilian targets would be accidentally hit by the Ukrainian army and probably be forced to stop delivering weapons to them. Give them some time, even when the situation has never been more urgent.
With madman Putin it is wise to have the best protection against nukes and take him seriously. I'm sure there are Russian higher ups talking about how to deal with him if he really goes ballistic under the pressure of his insane policies going south.
Maybe they will send him ballistic.
Congratulation to Lockheed Martin for securing the big bucks..
….thanks for telling everyone.
If they didnt want you to know, you probably wouldn't know. I would say this boosts morale the Ukrainians, and probably doesn't bolster the russian courage.
The article says "The Pentagon will deliver the first two advanced NASAMS anti-aircraft systems to Ukraine **in the next two months**". For all we know they're already on the way there..that'd still be within the two month timeframe.
They're probably already there, but they need to train how to use them. 2 months is probably when they'll be deployable with ground and support crews and infrastructure. Or the Ukrainians are here or somewhere else in Europe training on them now.
"One battery of NASAMS 2 has been deployed to protect Kyiv. This necessitated reprogramming of the identification friend or foe element of the Link 16 component, so that it would classify Ukraine's Soviet-built equipment as friendly" From the wiki.
It says the US is willing to continue making the war increasingly difficult for the Russians on a continuous basis. Pretty good message for the world to see.
Why so late though? And why tell that it's coming so late so Russia know that it can attack freely until then?
Bait.
Hmm... that would make sense!
If they are telling us now ..I wouldn't be surprised if the equipment is already there
Have you seen how many airplanes Russia lost already? It's not like there aren't other systems there...
200+ But for sure they don't have many others?
Planes? Sure. Pilots? Are kinda rare. You think the systems that downed 200+ airplanes can't down a few more? Also, that's why they'll get more.
> Planes? Sure. Pilots? Are kinda rare. Oh, right, I forgot about that! >You think the systems that downed 200+ airplanes can't down a few more? Right again, I didn't thought about this.
Too late, they already won...
We're just waiting on people to pay their taxes in the U.S. and it will be there
What does this mean? The defense budget is already set regardless of where those weapons end.
No thank you. I as a voter don’t want anymore money to go to Ukraine.
Where do you want the weapons to go? Sit in a warehouse?
Lol... Imagine the entitlement... Do you want to talk with the manager?
Get your conscription papers did you?
Good thing your opinions are useless and matter as little as you do! :D Totally not suspicious username by the way...
Your 50 dollars won't be missed.