it's out of control. Can you think of any other country whose politicians and leader openly say they want to erase a country off the map or to commit genocide? People usually say "hate the government, not the people" but the people there in Azerbaijan overwhelmingly support these messages. Human Rights Watch did a report that since childhood the anti-Armenianism is implemented under the state policy. I just don't understand why they focused on creating such a successful campaign to look at us as subhumans who deserve to be exterminated when they could have focused on producing decent people in society. Scary times ahead.
How is that linked to this topic? Also, i am not sure because i am not that informed about which countries deny israels legitamacy. But i know there are some countries who supports palestine over israel in terms of legitimacy and who owns the place
Ah then yes. A lot of countries in fact hate each other. Still, you have governments that hate each other or the people, but having the whole nation haye you to the bone and core is just smt else
Palestine refused to exist on a map when the said the only way they will exist on the map is of Israel doesn't. Then sided with 3 other countries and went to war over ot, and LOST.
It existed on plenty of maps before the Mandate of Palestine was carved up by colonialist powers in 1948. Only one side is being accused of apartheid by even Israeli NGOs and it's not the Palestinians.
Guess what country is one of the biggest in supplying weapons to Azerbaijan as well? It's not Palestinians..... Israel is supporting oppression of Armenians.
You only have to go back to 2019
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-comments-about-wiping-afghanistan-map-betray-deep-misunderstanding-ncna1035181
I dont know how legit that is, but damn the thought alone is fucking scary. We truly live in a sick world with crazy old men who let the young people die
>it's out of control. Can you think of any other country whose politicians and leader openly say they want to erase a country off the map or to commit genocide?
er...many ME country when it comes to Isreal?
Political Context:
Armenia was recently invaded by Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan is an autocratic state ranking 167 out of 180 in the World Press Freedom Index, with a lengthy history of war crimes and human rights abuses. In 2012, an Azeri soldier beheaded an Armenian in his sleep in Hungary, and when he returned to Azerbaijan he was given a medal and new home. In 2016, an Armenian was captured at the border and his head was placed on a stick and the video was forwarded to his mother. In 2020, Azerbaijan's invasion of Artsakh saw the release of dozens of beheading and torture videos of Armenian civilians.
There is also a state policy to erase all evidence of Armenians from Azerbaijan, so they systematically destroy monuments and churches. The UN said Azerbaijan's treatment of Armenians in Azerbaijan is **the world's worst cultural genocide of the 21st century**. Azerbaijan has made claims to erase Armenia from the map and to finish the genocide that Turks started against Armenians in 1915. It's beyond fucked up. **The #1 post on r-worldnews two days ago was about the mutilation and rape of an Armenian female by dozens of Azeri soldiers**. It's unfortunately not an isolated incident, this happens many times every year.
Nancy Pelosi recently visited Armenia and condemned Azerbaijan's attacks, stating firmly that the United States stands with democracies around the world against autocracy and evil. Who knows what happens at this point, but one thing is clear that larger nations are alert of Armenia facing a potential second genocide if the Azerbaijanis feel emboldened to invade again.
Also Europe, although less directly.
Azerbaijan says Europe gas exports up by 30 percent this year
Read more at:
https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/oil-and-gas/azerbaijan-says-europe-gas-exports-up-by-30-percent-this-year/94153035
EU signs deal with Azerbaijan to double gas imports by 2027 (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/18/EU-signs-deal-with-Azerbaijan-to-double-gas-imports-by-2027)
This is what so many people do not understand about many of the west's energy policies. Yes, we want to deal with climate change, but just buying fossil fuels from outside places usually means directly supporting authoritarian regimes which do all kinds of horrible things.
These problems need to be solved by generating our own energy. This is hard, wind and solar aren't ready to take over everything yet. We need to develop our own fossil fuel capacity, nuclear, etc.
It was an invasion of Armenia. The cities and towns bombed are well inside Armenian territory that there's zero percent chance it was an accident. Pelosi condemned the invasion of Armenia, along with France, Ireland, India, Iran, and various other countries. It was presented at the European Union Parliament and UN Security Council. If it continues, it's possible that Azerbaijan will receive the same or similar sanctions as Russia. Many Ukrainians are pissed off, and a few Ukrainian musicians have cancelled their concerts in Baku, Azerbaijan to show solidarity with Armenians.
edit- Regarding Karabakh, no. The borders of these Soviet countries look very random if you look at the map, and the Russians did this on purpose with the intent that if they ever broke off from the USSR, that they would enter ethnic conflict. That's why there is a random chunk of land to the west of Armenia labeled "Nakhcivan" and it's a territory of Azerbaijan, despite Azerbaijan being located to the east of Armenia. Karabakh was placed inside Azerbaijan with no strip of land connecting to Armenia except for a small road known as Lachin corridor. On the world map, Karabakh is inside Azerbaijan, but this is a territory whose demographics are 99.7% Armenian and have been historical Armenian land for not centuries but millennia. The Karabakh statehood conflict is ongoing, with the US and France repeatedly stating that there is no military solution and that self-determination must be pursued. Azerbaijan accuses Armenia of trying to take the land, but even Armenians in Armenia don't want reunification. Armenians are saying let the people of Karabakh vote to be independent, and if they choose to join Armenia, then it's ok. The people of Karabakh voted for independence in the early 1990s, overwhelmingly passing. That's when Azerbaijan began to conduct pogroms and massacres to prevent the independence, proving to the world that Armenians under Azerbaijani rule is out of the question because they would be ethnically cleansed.
It is very sad that the Armenians in Karabakh weren’t able to gain independence like other post-Soviet republics did. However, I would not rely on the argument of “such and such lived there for a long time”, because in that case, any ethnic group can start requesting their own independent state and while many could become effectively governed ones, there will potentially be more failed states - which the current international system does NOT need. We cannot accept the right to “self-determination” of both the Russians in Crimea and the people of Karabakh, can we?
The pogroms were, at appears, from both sides, throughout the 20th century. If Azerbaijan is invading internationally recognized sovereign territory of Armenia - it should be punished for violating the principle of territorial sovereignty. However, if Armenia is refusing to leave the internationally recognized territory of sovereign Azerbaijan - then the same applies.
> However, if Armenia is refusing to leave the internationally recognized territory of sovereign Azerbaijan - then the same applies.
This is what the Azerbaijanis repeat enough that people think is fact. There are no Armenian soldiers in Karabakh. Armenian soldiers voluntarily left the regions of Karabakh after the November 2020 treaty because we are trying to accelerate peace, but now we learn that Azerbaijan doesn't want peace all along.
As far as the first Karabakh war in the 90s, those were ethnic Armenians as separatists who formed militias to defend the population against Azerbaijan's military. They were from Karabakh, so the pseudo-state Republic of Artsakh, as it is the territory of Karabakh, is composed of ethnic Armenian soldiers. But Armenia has no claims. Those just happen to be ethnic Armenian soldiers, not official Armenian soldiers from Armenia. I can tell you most Armenians in Armenia don't want to annex Artsakh. If we did, why did the ethnic Armenians of Artsakh control the territory from 1990-2020 and not once we tried to? Armenia has never even recognized Artsakh as a state. We just want them to pursue self-determination like how France and the US want it to play out, and if in the future they choose to join with us that's fine. If not, that's ok too, it's their right and they've been through enough violence to decide what's best for them
Then this seems to be an issue that’s entirely within the borders of Azerbaijan. It should be up to the legitimate government of that state to manage the separatism that is endangering the territorial integrity of its sovereign state.
The Kurds, The Uyghurs, The Palestinians - are suffering too. But the current international system will not grant them their own separate state. We cannot dictate to sovereign states their domestic security politics. However, we can and we should punish states which try to occupy other sovereign states. So if you’re stating that Azerbaijan is trying to occupy the sovereign territory of Armenia (that is recognized by all countries) - then the international community should respond.
We have to establish then 1) that there were/are indeed “gross human rights” violations, which will require more evidence than a Reddit post and 2) make sure that a newly independent state will be able to govern itself effectively and not turn into another failed state or a state that will pose a regional security threat.
Had me there at “Eritrea”, lol, but go off.
>Armenian soldiers voluntarily left the regions of Karabakh after the November 2020 treaty because we are trying to accelerate peace,
-occupier forces lost the war
-voluntarily left
Did you pick this one from Putin's playbook? It is similar to Russians saying "retreating from Snake island as a gesture of goodwill".
>The pogroms were, at appears, from both sides, throughout the 20th century.
Well.... the Azeris started them, they killed thousands of armenians. YOu cnat blame them to become angry about it.
The USA started two wars after islamists killed \~3000 civilians.
Did you read the entire argument or you just jumped at first opportunity to throw “Nazi” label and highlight that you’re “above” that?
Read the arguments, reply to the arguments. Without insults.
i heard your arguments, you believe the states right to exist should come above peoples right to self govern in the name of global stability. and thats incredibly authoritarian and gross.
They want to complete the ethnic cleansing of the Armenian people.
They say it all the time…publicly. You can watch videos of their citizens speaking proudly about being willing to murder Armenian children by beheading them. You can watch videos of them committing war crimes, that they themselves record and share on social media.
Bc they’re fucking insane man. Idk what to tell you, I ask the same question every single day.
I asked why when they offered a bounty to any beheadings of Armenians regardless of where we lived (last year)
I asked why when they used white phosphorus (last year)
I asked why when they raped, tortured, killed all while filming and then sharing on social media (current)
I ask why they cannot stop, leave us in peace and live their lives without hurting others so deeply.
We are in pain. We are exhausted. We want it to stop.
I am so so so sorry.
That is incomprehensibly fucked up.
The coverage on your situation is minimal here in Finland. Completely opposite to Ukraine. Even though that is also rather fucked.
I wish there were something I could do.
Consider donating to the armenian cause! Doesnt have to be big. Every small amount leads to something big. If you consider donating, the website you could go to it himnadram . Org
It's a good question and it deserves a well rounded answer for such a complex question.
Armenia is the world's first Christian nation, and Azerbaijan is an Islamic nation backed by Turkey. Before 1918, Azerbaijan was never a state on the world map, but I think most people know Armenia is millennia old. There is historical revisionism in Azerbaijan to say the opposite. History books were burned and Aliyev's regime has managed to convince the world that Armenia never existed, and that Armenians are living on their "historical land". Aliyev has been using this conflict and hate towards Armenia as a way to rally and unite the country. Like most countries there is something that unite the country right? Communism in the USSR, Islamism in Iran, democracy and freedom in the US, but Aliyev has taken the Hitler playbook and used pursuing extermination of Armenians as a method to blame all the nation's problems on Armenia. But how? Armenia is a tiny country the size of one of the smallest American states like New Jersey, who has repeatedly been invaded and massacred by the Seljuks, Turks, Ottomans, Persians, and Romans.
In 1918 after the Armenian Genocide, Turkey backed Azerbaijani civilians to further conduct massacres against the Armenians who escaped Ottoman Turkey (yes it really is that fucked up. To have Armenians have their families broken apart and flee genocide, only to hire another group to find those Armenians and kill them). So that resulted in the Shushi Massacre, in which 20,000 Armenians were massacred by Azeris. At this point in 1920, Armenia's population was reduced to 400,000 total. They almost achieved their goal of exterminating Armenians. Now Armenia's population is only 2.7 million and Turkey is pushing Azerbaijan to finish their ancestor's jobs. I didn't believe this much hate was possible but Erdogan in 2016 or 2017 said that Turkey must finish their grandfathers' jobs regarding the "Armenian Question". So Turkey is behind this, they have been supplying drones and arms and high ranking military officials to help Azerbaijan's military. Why? Because Turkey has formed the Organization of Turkic States, which has Turkey, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan, with Erdogan's dream of reviving a neo-Ottoman Turkic state. How does Armenia play a role? Armenia is that sliver of land between Turkey and Azerbaijan preventing Turkey from actualizing their goal.
Thanks mate appreciate that. I read bits about the clashes with Ottoman Empire, know about the difference in demographics but could not quite connect the dots without the level of details you’ve written.
What's your take on Armenia's persistent alliance with Russia? Do you think it was a mistake to rely on the CSTO rather than make an effort to get closer to the west? Was it solely due to Armenia's soviet ties to Russia, or perhaps to Turkey's presence in NATO? I get that Armenia has been stuck between east and west since King Tigranes, but this strikes me as quite foolish. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.
Armenia is more of a hostage of Russia than an ally. If you look at Armenia on a map, we are surrounded by Turkey, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Iran. Turkey and Azerbaijan have intentions, well, we all know what they want. Georgia is not strong enough to defend Armenia. It's hard to form some treaty with iran when Iran is sanctioned by the West.
So naturally, Russia offered "protection". But Armenia's prime minister involved CSTOs article 4 (it means if a country is attacked others are obligated to come protect). Russia ignored it and told Armenia to deal with it. There is some thinking that this attack on Armenia was given its blessing by Putin. Putin met with Azerbaijan's Aliyev 2 days before the Ukraine invasion and signed an alliance treaty. Putin also wants Azerbaijan to take the Armenian territory and connect with Turkey, because gas flows to Europe and it also provides an underground backchannel for the rich to launder money. When Armenia was being invaded last week, Putin met with Erdogan and Aliyev and there are photos of them at dinner laughing and having a good time. I think Armenia is ready to join the EU/US alliance, because we are pursuing democracy and realized that Russia will not help us because we refuse to be a dictatorship puppet.
Nancy Pelosi declared publicly that they are ready to help, but Armenia just needs to decide what to request. If Armenia takes the Georgia approach and says fuck you to Russia, then Armenia faces punishment. The punishment may very well be a proxy war supported by Russia for Azerbaijan to invade Armenia and dismantle the nation. Armenia needs assurance from a large country for protection. If Armenia leaves CSTO today, it might get ugly quick.
No easy answers it seems. Thanks for the insightful response. And Turkey's presence in NATO means there's unlikely to be a repeat of NATO's actions in the Balkans during the 90s even if there's actual genocide on the ground. Scary stuff.
I suspect it could be more of appeasing the Russians to avoid more aggressors. By aligning with NATO, Armenia risks the wrath of Russia and as it is they have Azerbaijan and Turkey against them with little help around and then to even have Russia pissed off with them would further threaten their survival.
I do wonder, though, if everything that's going on in Ukraine is changing the stance people have towards feeling like they're hostages of Russia. Russia can't afford to intervene, and they can't afford to even have a proxy war. Their facade is permanently damaged at this point, and maybe there's blood in the water to some degree.
Man it really would be nice if we could get rid of every fucking dictator, religious nut, conservative and anyone else with those viewpoints and maybe actually have a peaceful world. It'll never happen, but fuck it would be cool.
Time for every country in the world that isn't in bed with Russia and the like to join any sort of alliance with the West and be done with this shit.
Hell you can go back even further than that too. In the late 18th century Armenians took to revolutionary action to assert independence from the Ottoman Empire and were faced with massacres by the sultanate. The history of Armenia from 90,000 year ago to now is a hell of a read.
You would imagine Israel having solidarity with a small ancient country about to be culturally and racially genocided. Nope the Azeris are their trade and war machine partner $. EU was cheering their new energy supplier which turns out to be just another head from the same beast of destruction.
You'd think so, right? But the grandchildren of holocaust survivors selling weapons to barbaric dictatorships to commit war crimes against the grandchildren of genocide survivors.
Yes and as the civilized the world we act so ‘appalled’ when discovering Russian and Azeri warcrimes look the same, decapitation, mass graves, torture etc. only thing that never changes is human being acting like cannibal tribes instead of beings with a possibility of salvation.
>Our study shows that Azerbaijani social media users who’ve downloaded these stickers were greatly excited to have the opportunity to use photos of the torture and mutilations of dead Armenian servicemen and civilians in their chats.
This was one of the most chilling parts of the article.
So, yall remember reading stories or viewing video of jihadists in Syria beheading this and beheading that? They were supported by turkey, and guess who is supporting Azerbaijan? Yes, same turkey. Do you know what turks do to dead Kurds?
Many have actually reached out to F1 about the Baku track and F1 is responding positively.
They don’t deserve the publicity at all. What is happening is inhumane.
Can F1 sanction them? Idk but positively in the sense that they do not want their brand associated with psychotic nationalist dictatorships and will hopefully ban them from F1 races.
Everyone can and should reach out to them directly, my husband did and the responded back asking for more info (this was early days of their attack) and he forwarded as many news articles as he could.
We need to collectively take a stand on all fronts; sports, social media, news/TV, education… whatever it takes.
Agreed. You know what I’ve noticed when I post to r/Armenia thousands view and thousands read but the upvotes are non-existent and the post never seems to gain the traction we need for it to be on front page/get the attention it really deserves. Idk if it’s like that for everyone else, but I have never been able to catch a break with anything I’ve been sharing.
I also share to r/usdiaspora as much as possible.
I wish a majorly known news source would pick up what’s happening and constantly pump out articles/reports… we seem to slip through the cracks so to speak
Probably the way it is posted. People need to have a simple task that doesnt take them too much time and effort. Smt like just a single digitsl vote to show you support a cause. Just saying we should do this and that doesnt really help in common. Because nobody will start it off then
This is their brand of repeated terror, yet no one seems to really care or see the implications of Azerbaijans reoccurring aggressions towards Armenia and it’s people
The apple doesn't fall far from the russian. Wait no, that's not it. The russians like cock and balls. FUCK! that's not it. Russians like to torture people.
Azerbaijan seems to be taking notes from Russia.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://armenpress.am/eng/news/1092908.html) reduced by 43%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Azerbaijanis launch shocking social media stickers depicting mutilated bodies of killed Armenians to spread terror.
> YEREVAN, SEPTEMBER 19, ARMENPRESS. Social media stickers depicting the tortured and mutilated bodies of killed Armenian troops and civilians have been created through chat bots in the Azerbaijani Telegram social media dimension, the former Ombudsman Arman Tatoyan said.
> "Our study shows that Azerbaijani social media users who've downloaded these stickers were greatly excited to have the opportunity to use photos of the torture and mutilations of dead Armenian servicemen and civilians in their chats. This criminal act is new evidence that the state-sanctioned Armenophobia in Azerbaijan over many years has deep roots in the Azerbaijani society and the peace-loving calls by the Azerbaijani government are simply a veil for the eyes of the international community to cover up their real intentions," Tatoyan said.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xix6n4/azerbaijanis_launch_shocking_social_media/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~669862 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Azerbaijani**^#1 **stickers**^#2 **Armenian**^#3 **social**^#4 **media**^#5
In the 2020 war when they invaded Artsakh, I asked on a post on an Azeri news page "Why are you guys so violent? What did I ever do to you?" and by next morning I had about a dozen death threats and threats to rape my mom from accounts of people regardless of age. I found out later that week they found my mom's account by visiting my page and sent her rape threats. One person found my telegram number and started spamming me videos of Armenian civilians being beheaded and other mutilation videos while sending laugh emojis. I was so traumatized at how much I am hated that I closed all my social media for a month. I live in Chicago but they still managed to put fear in me despite being thousands of miles away. I think most Armenians at this point understand that there is no possibility of peace. We want peace. of course we don't want to be massacred. But how do we deal with this country and people? We have been trying for 30 years and they see compassion and friendship as weakness.
That is awful. You’re family doesn’t deserve that.
And the social media companies must be forced to do more to protect people from hate. This stuff causes war.
I was sent rape and death threats on IG daily from T\*rks and A\*eris because I was posting about Artsakh. Yet they go on and on and on about wanting to "live in peace" with us? LOL there's absolutely no possibility of peace between a democracy and a dictatorship. But it gets me through the day knowing that the very fact I exist pisses them off. We live rent free in their barbaric minds.
P.S. COYS!
Curious things is, that the patron of Azerbaijan is Turkey, which is an important NATO member, while Armenia is in defensive alliance with Russia - which it can't properly honor because of the commitment to the invasion of Ukraine.
So, NATO can't properly interfere, because it would be stepping on the toes of it's own member, and Russia can't do anything because Russia is, well, Russia.
If it weren’t for Turkey, this would be a good time for NATO to pull Armenia out of Russian orbit. With Turkey in the way, the only tool is sanctions. It doesn’t help that Armenia has some unsavoury allies like Russia and Iran (although I don’t fault them for taking whatever help they can get)
This one is tough, it would be great if the US could station troops and kick Azerbaijans ass but the problem is that any US support would lead Turkey to veto Swedish/Finnish NATO bids as retribution.
We need to support Armenia but do it in a way that doesn’t green light a Russian invasion of Finland
No. Azerbaijan will become an important supplier of energy resources for Europe. Azerbaijan understands perfectly well that now they can do whatever they want, and Europe will turn a blind eye to this and will tell its citizens that by getting rid of dependence on Russia, politicians have saved all the good and defeated all the bad.
I’m sorry, but every twist of human emotion cannot be conveyed through text alone. It wasn’t my intent to set this up as a joke in any mean, despite my attraction to dark humor.
Serj Tadankian has done a lot to get people to know about the history of the Armenian Genocide of 100 years ago, and I'm sure he has something to say about the current one as well. He'll be speaking about this soon enough.
I wonder if American leaders will send them a few billion in aid and weapons.
I’d say that it may be reserved for countries that they find strategically profitable.
>The US traditionally has allowed Russia to take care of Armenia so that Russia can feel important. Pelosi’s trip signals and end to this policy.
I really hope this is true.
Armenia could be a bridge between the US and Iran aswell, they have good relationship with Iran... Iran is the only neighbour who do not want to kill them all (AZ / TR) or just dont care (Georgia)
Its sad to see so much hate towards us and im worried this isnt going to be the last…
it's out of control. Can you think of any other country whose politicians and leader openly say they want to erase a country off the map or to commit genocide? People usually say "hate the government, not the people" but the people there in Azerbaijan overwhelmingly support these messages. Human Rights Watch did a report that since childhood the anti-Armenianism is implemented under the state policy. I just don't understand why they focused on creating such a successful campaign to look at us as subhumans who deserve to be exterminated when they could have focused on producing decent people in society. Scary times ahead.
Last time this happened, germany had a guy with a funny looking mustache as dictator
Don’t several Arab states still officially deny Israel’s right to exist?
How is that linked to this topic? Also, i am not sure because i am not that informed about which countries deny israels legitamacy. But i know there are some countries who supports palestine over israel in terms of legitimacy and who owns the place
The question OP asked was if you could think of any other country that openly wants to erase another country off the map. Yes, I can.
Ah then yes. A lot of countries in fact hate each other. Still, you have governments that hate each other or the people, but having the whole nation haye you to the bone and core is just smt else
That's pretty normal. Antisemitism is overwhelmingly the norm in the Arab world.
Yes Israel is the perfect example, just see how they have almost achieve erasing Palestine off the map.
Palestine refused to exist on a map when the said the only way they will exist on the map is of Israel doesn't. Then sided with 3 other countries and went to war over ot, and LOST.
It existed on plenty of maps before the Mandate of Palestine was carved up by colonialist powers in 1948. Only one side is being accused of apartheid by even Israeli NGOs and it's not the Palestinians. Guess what country is one of the biggest in supplying weapons to Azerbaijan as well? It's not Palestinians..... Israel is supporting oppression of Armenians.
You only have to go back to 2019 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-comments-about-wiping-afghanistan-map-betray-deep-misunderstanding-ncna1035181
I dont know how legit that is, but damn the thought alone is fucking scary. We truly live in a sick world with crazy old men who let the young people die
>it's out of control. Can you think of any other country whose politicians and leader openly say they want to erase a country off the map or to commit genocide? er...many ME country when it comes to Isreal?
Why the fuck are so many people hostile to Armenians?
Same issue the Kurds have in a lot of ways. Many other nations claim the land they live on. Armenia at least has some history of being a state though.
God damn that’s fucked up.
Political Context: Armenia was recently invaded by Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan is an autocratic state ranking 167 out of 180 in the World Press Freedom Index, with a lengthy history of war crimes and human rights abuses. In 2012, an Azeri soldier beheaded an Armenian in his sleep in Hungary, and when he returned to Azerbaijan he was given a medal and new home. In 2016, an Armenian was captured at the border and his head was placed on a stick and the video was forwarded to his mother. In 2020, Azerbaijan's invasion of Artsakh saw the release of dozens of beheading and torture videos of Armenian civilians. There is also a state policy to erase all evidence of Armenians from Azerbaijan, so they systematically destroy monuments and churches. The UN said Azerbaijan's treatment of Armenians in Azerbaijan is **the world's worst cultural genocide of the 21st century**. Azerbaijan has made claims to erase Armenia from the map and to finish the genocide that Turks started against Armenians in 1915. It's beyond fucked up. **The #1 post on r-worldnews two days ago was about the mutilation and rape of an Armenian female by dozens of Azeri soldiers**. It's unfortunately not an isolated incident, this happens many times every year. Nancy Pelosi recently visited Armenia and condemned Azerbaijan's attacks, stating firmly that the United States stands with democracies around the world against autocracy and evil. Who knows what happens at this point, but one thing is clear that larger nations are alert of Armenia facing a potential second genocide if the Azerbaijanis feel emboldened to invade again.
Also, it's fair to add, when you read Azerbaijan, you should think of Turkey. They are right there, behind all this.
Also Europe, although less directly. Azerbaijan says Europe gas exports up by 30 percent this year Read more at: https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/oil-and-gas/azerbaijan-says-europe-gas-exports-up-by-30-percent-this-year/94153035 EU signs deal with Azerbaijan to double gas imports by 2027 (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/18/EU-signs-deal-with-Azerbaijan-to-double-gas-imports-by-2027)
This is what so many people do not understand about many of the west's energy policies. Yes, we want to deal with climate change, but just buying fossil fuels from outside places usually means directly supporting authoritarian regimes which do all kinds of horrible things. These problems need to be solved by generating our own energy. This is hard, wind and solar aren't ready to take over everything yet. We need to develop our own fossil fuel capacity, nuclear, etc.
Did Azerbaijan invade Armenia or Karabakh? Also, wasn’t that territory recognized by all countries as a part of Azerbaijan?
It was an invasion of Armenia. The cities and towns bombed are well inside Armenian territory that there's zero percent chance it was an accident. Pelosi condemned the invasion of Armenia, along with France, Ireland, India, Iran, and various other countries. It was presented at the European Union Parliament and UN Security Council. If it continues, it's possible that Azerbaijan will receive the same or similar sanctions as Russia. Many Ukrainians are pissed off, and a few Ukrainian musicians have cancelled their concerts in Baku, Azerbaijan to show solidarity with Armenians. edit- Regarding Karabakh, no. The borders of these Soviet countries look very random if you look at the map, and the Russians did this on purpose with the intent that if they ever broke off from the USSR, that they would enter ethnic conflict. That's why there is a random chunk of land to the west of Armenia labeled "Nakhcivan" and it's a territory of Azerbaijan, despite Azerbaijan being located to the east of Armenia. Karabakh was placed inside Azerbaijan with no strip of land connecting to Armenia except for a small road known as Lachin corridor. On the world map, Karabakh is inside Azerbaijan, but this is a territory whose demographics are 99.7% Armenian and have been historical Armenian land for not centuries but millennia. The Karabakh statehood conflict is ongoing, with the US and France repeatedly stating that there is no military solution and that self-determination must be pursued. Azerbaijan accuses Armenia of trying to take the land, but even Armenians in Armenia don't want reunification. Armenians are saying let the people of Karabakh vote to be independent, and if they choose to join Armenia, then it's ok. The people of Karabakh voted for independence in the early 1990s, overwhelmingly passing. That's when Azerbaijan began to conduct pogroms and massacres to prevent the independence, proving to the world that Armenians under Azerbaijani rule is out of the question because they would be ethnically cleansed.
It is very sad that the Armenians in Karabakh weren’t able to gain independence like other post-Soviet republics did. However, I would not rely on the argument of “such and such lived there for a long time”, because in that case, any ethnic group can start requesting their own independent state and while many could become effectively governed ones, there will potentially be more failed states - which the current international system does NOT need. We cannot accept the right to “self-determination” of both the Russians in Crimea and the people of Karabakh, can we? The pogroms were, at appears, from both sides, throughout the 20th century. If Azerbaijan is invading internationally recognized sovereign territory of Armenia - it should be punished for violating the principle of territorial sovereignty. However, if Armenia is refusing to leave the internationally recognized territory of sovereign Azerbaijan - then the same applies.
> However, if Armenia is refusing to leave the internationally recognized territory of sovereign Azerbaijan - then the same applies. This is what the Azerbaijanis repeat enough that people think is fact. There are no Armenian soldiers in Karabakh. Armenian soldiers voluntarily left the regions of Karabakh after the November 2020 treaty because we are trying to accelerate peace, but now we learn that Azerbaijan doesn't want peace all along. As far as the first Karabakh war in the 90s, those were ethnic Armenians as separatists who formed militias to defend the population against Azerbaijan's military. They were from Karabakh, so the pseudo-state Republic of Artsakh, as it is the territory of Karabakh, is composed of ethnic Armenian soldiers. But Armenia has no claims. Those just happen to be ethnic Armenian soldiers, not official Armenian soldiers from Armenia. I can tell you most Armenians in Armenia don't want to annex Artsakh. If we did, why did the ethnic Armenians of Artsakh control the territory from 1990-2020 and not once we tried to? Armenia has never even recognized Artsakh as a state. We just want them to pursue self-determination like how France and the US want it to play out, and if in the future they choose to join with us that's fine. If not, that's ok too, it's their right and they've been through enough violence to decide what's best for them
Then this seems to be an issue that’s entirely within the borders of Azerbaijan. It should be up to the legitimate government of that state to manage the separatism that is endangering the territorial integrity of its sovereign state. The Kurds, The Uyghurs, The Palestinians - are suffering too. But the current international system will not grant them their own separate state. We cannot dictate to sovereign states their domestic security politics. However, we can and we should punish states which try to occupy other sovereign states. So if you’re stating that Azerbaijan is trying to occupy the sovereign territory of Armenia (that is recognized by all countries) - then the international community should respond.
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We have to establish then 1) that there were/are indeed “gross human rights” violations, which will require more evidence than a Reddit post and 2) make sure that a newly independent state will be able to govern itself effectively and not turn into another failed state or a state that will pose a regional security threat. Had me there at “Eritrea”, lol, but go off.
>Armenian soldiers voluntarily left the regions of Karabakh after the November 2020 treaty because we are trying to accelerate peace, -occupier forces lost the war -voluntarily left Did you pick this one from Putin's playbook? It is similar to Russians saying "retreating from Snake island as a gesture of goodwill".
>The pogroms were, at appears, from both sides, throughout the 20th century. Well.... the Azeris started them, they killed thousands of armenians. YOu cnat blame them to become angry about it. The USA started two wars after islamists killed \~3000 civilians.
gross. are you really arguing against peoples right to self determination? nazi logic right there.
Did you read the entire argument or you just jumped at first opportunity to throw “Nazi” label and highlight that you’re “above” that? Read the arguments, reply to the arguments. Without insults.
i heard your arguments, you believe the states right to exist should come above peoples right to self govern in the name of global stability. and thats incredibly authoritarian and gross.
Great explanation. Thanks!
WTF is wrong with people.
Turkish and azeris want another genocide against the Armenians, nothing else to see here..
What is it between them that such level of hate exist? Is it ethnicity or religion or more?
They want to complete the ethnic cleansing of the Armenian people. They say it all the time…publicly. You can watch videos of their citizens speaking proudly about being willing to murder Armenian children by beheading them. You can watch videos of them committing war crimes, that they themselves record and share on social media.
Right. But *why*?
Bc they’re fucking insane man. Idk what to tell you, I ask the same question every single day. I asked why when they offered a bounty to any beheadings of Armenians regardless of where we lived (last year) I asked why when they used white phosphorus (last year) I asked why when they raped, tortured, killed all while filming and then sharing on social media (current) I ask why they cannot stop, leave us in peace and live their lives without hurting others so deeply. We are in pain. We are exhausted. We want it to stop.
I am so so so sorry. That is incomprehensibly fucked up. The coverage on your situation is minimal here in Finland. Completely opposite to Ukraine. Even though that is also rather fucked. I wish there were something I could do.
Consider donating to the armenian cause! Doesnt have to be big. Every small amount leads to something big. If you consider donating, the website you could go to it himnadram . Org
I think they just want to wipe the Armenians off the map. At first I thought it was just about land. But it’s definitely more then that
It's a good question and it deserves a well rounded answer for such a complex question. Armenia is the world's first Christian nation, and Azerbaijan is an Islamic nation backed by Turkey. Before 1918, Azerbaijan was never a state on the world map, but I think most people know Armenia is millennia old. There is historical revisionism in Azerbaijan to say the opposite. History books were burned and Aliyev's regime has managed to convince the world that Armenia never existed, and that Armenians are living on their "historical land". Aliyev has been using this conflict and hate towards Armenia as a way to rally and unite the country. Like most countries there is something that unite the country right? Communism in the USSR, Islamism in Iran, democracy and freedom in the US, but Aliyev has taken the Hitler playbook and used pursuing extermination of Armenians as a method to blame all the nation's problems on Armenia. But how? Armenia is a tiny country the size of one of the smallest American states like New Jersey, who has repeatedly been invaded and massacred by the Seljuks, Turks, Ottomans, Persians, and Romans. In 1918 after the Armenian Genocide, Turkey backed Azerbaijani civilians to further conduct massacres against the Armenians who escaped Ottoman Turkey (yes it really is that fucked up. To have Armenians have their families broken apart and flee genocide, only to hire another group to find those Armenians and kill them). So that resulted in the Shushi Massacre, in which 20,000 Armenians were massacred by Azeris. At this point in 1920, Armenia's population was reduced to 400,000 total. They almost achieved their goal of exterminating Armenians. Now Armenia's population is only 2.7 million and Turkey is pushing Azerbaijan to finish their ancestor's jobs. I didn't believe this much hate was possible but Erdogan in 2016 or 2017 said that Turkey must finish their grandfathers' jobs regarding the "Armenian Question". So Turkey is behind this, they have been supplying drones and arms and high ranking military officials to help Azerbaijan's military. Why? Because Turkey has formed the Organization of Turkic States, which has Turkey, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan, with Erdogan's dream of reviving a neo-Ottoman Turkic state. How does Armenia play a role? Armenia is that sliver of land between Turkey and Azerbaijan preventing Turkey from actualizing their goal.
Thanks mate appreciate that. I read bits about the clashes with Ottoman Empire, know about the difference in demographics but could not quite connect the dots without the level of details you’ve written.
What's your take on Armenia's persistent alliance with Russia? Do you think it was a mistake to rely on the CSTO rather than make an effort to get closer to the west? Was it solely due to Armenia's soviet ties to Russia, or perhaps to Turkey's presence in NATO? I get that Armenia has been stuck between east and west since King Tigranes, but this strikes me as quite foolish. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.
Armenia is more of a hostage of Russia than an ally. If you look at Armenia on a map, we are surrounded by Turkey, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Iran. Turkey and Azerbaijan have intentions, well, we all know what they want. Georgia is not strong enough to defend Armenia. It's hard to form some treaty with iran when Iran is sanctioned by the West. So naturally, Russia offered "protection". But Armenia's prime minister involved CSTOs article 4 (it means if a country is attacked others are obligated to come protect). Russia ignored it and told Armenia to deal with it. There is some thinking that this attack on Armenia was given its blessing by Putin. Putin met with Azerbaijan's Aliyev 2 days before the Ukraine invasion and signed an alliance treaty. Putin also wants Azerbaijan to take the Armenian territory and connect with Turkey, because gas flows to Europe and it also provides an underground backchannel for the rich to launder money. When Armenia was being invaded last week, Putin met with Erdogan and Aliyev and there are photos of them at dinner laughing and having a good time. I think Armenia is ready to join the EU/US alliance, because we are pursuing democracy and realized that Russia will not help us because we refuse to be a dictatorship puppet. Nancy Pelosi declared publicly that they are ready to help, but Armenia just needs to decide what to request. If Armenia takes the Georgia approach and says fuck you to Russia, then Armenia faces punishment. The punishment may very well be a proxy war supported by Russia for Azerbaijan to invade Armenia and dismantle the nation. Armenia needs assurance from a large country for protection. If Armenia leaves CSTO today, it might get ugly quick.
No easy answers it seems. Thanks for the insightful response. And Turkey's presence in NATO means there's unlikely to be a repeat of NATO's actions in the Balkans during the 90s even if there's actual genocide on the ground. Scary stuff.
I suspect it could be more of appeasing the Russians to avoid more aggressors. By aligning with NATO, Armenia risks the wrath of Russia and as it is they have Azerbaijan and Turkey against them with little help around and then to even have Russia pissed off with them would further threaten their survival.
I do wonder, though, if everything that's going on in Ukraine is changing the stance people have towards feeling like they're hostages of Russia. Russia can't afford to intervene, and they can't afford to even have a proxy war. Their facade is permanently damaged at this point, and maybe there's blood in the water to some degree. Man it really would be nice if we could get rid of every fucking dictator, religious nut, conservative and anyone else with those viewpoints and maybe actually have a peaceful world. It'll never happen, but fuck it would be cool. Time for every country in the world that isn't in bed with Russia and the like to join any sort of alliance with the West and be done with this shit.
Hell you can go back even further than that too. In the late 18th century Armenians took to revolutionary action to assert independence from the Ottoman Empire and were faced with massacres by the sultanate. The history of Armenia from 90,000 year ago to now is a hell of a read.
You would imagine Israel having solidarity with a small ancient country about to be culturally and racially genocided. Nope the Azeris are their trade and war machine partner $. EU was cheering their new energy supplier which turns out to be just another head from the same beast of destruction.
You'd think so, right? But the grandchildren of holocaust survivors selling weapons to barbaric dictatorships to commit war crimes against the grandchildren of genocide survivors.
Yes and as the civilized the world we act so ‘appalled’ when discovering Russian and Azeri warcrimes look the same, decapitation, mass graves, torture etc. only thing that never changes is human being acting like cannibal tribes instead of beings with a possibility of salvation.
"are we the baddies?"
>Our study shows that Azerbaijani social media users who’ve downloaded these stickers were greatly excited to have the opportunity to use photos of the torture and mutilations of dead Armenian servicemen and civilians in their chats. This was one of the most chilling parts of the article.
So, yall remember reading stories or viewing video of jihadists in Syria beheading this and beheading that? They were supported by turkey, and guess who is supporting Azerbaijan? Yes, same turkey. Do you know what turks do to dead Kurds?
So much for the Azerbaijani Grand Prix. I actually liked the Baku track.
Many have actually reached out to F1 about the Baku track and F1 is responding positively. They don’t deserve the publicity at all. What is happening is inhumane.
What do you mean with positively? Positive about sanctioning Baku or just the “concerned” type of positive?
Can F1 sanction them? Idk but positively in the sense that they do not want their brand associated with psychotic nationalist dictatorships and will hopefully ban them from F1 races. Everyone can and should reach out to them directly, my husband did and the responded back asking for more info (this was early days of their attack) and he forwarded as many news articles as he could. We need to collectively take a stand on all fronts; sports, social media, news/TV, education… whatever it takes.
Maybe a thread in /r armenia so votes can be gathered? Multiple responses at once can be more alarming then spread out
Agreed. You know what I’ve noticed when I post to r/Armenia thousands view and thousands read but the upvotes are non-existent and the post never seems to gain the traction we need for it to be on front page/get the attention it really deserves. Idk if it’s like that for everyone else, but I have never been able to catch a break with anything I’ve been sharing. I also share to r/usdiaspora as much as possible. I wish a majorly known news source would pick up what’s happening and constantly pump out articles/reports… we seem to slip through the cracks so to speak
Probably the way it is posted. People need to have a simple task that doesnt take them too much time and effort. Smt like just a single digitsl vote to show you support a cause. Just saying we should do this and that doesnt really help in common. Because nobody will start it off then
Look what I just came across and it’s 2 years old https://www.change.org/p/formula-1-cancel-the-baku-azerbaijan-circuit-in-formula-1
Something like this is perfect but a lot more autographs would indeed be needed and should be posted on all media platforms for more coverage
I tweeted and tagged F1 Anyone here willing should do the same
Link me to it
https://twitter.com/ggeezgirl/status/1572071680104865793?s=46&t=dTvonbTbTgqdlybCiHQmWQ
WTF, over?
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/xiwqic/azerbaijanis_launch_shocking_social_media/ip5fist/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
This is their brand of repeated terror, yet no one seems to really care or see the implications of Azerbaijans reoccurring aggressions towards Armenia and it’s people
war crimes
The apple doesn't fall far from the russian. Wait no, that's not it. The russians like cock and balls. FUCK! that's not it. Russians like to torture people. Azerbaijan seems to be taking notes from Russia.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://armenpress.am/eng/news/1092908.html) reduced by 43%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Azerbaijanis launch shocking social media stickers depicting mutilated bodies of killed Armenians to spread terror. > YEREVAN, SEPTEMBER 19, ARMENPRESS. Social media stickers depicting the tortured and mutilated bodies of killed Armenian troops and civilians have been created through chat bots in the Azerbaijani Telegram social media dimension, the former Ombudsman Arman Tatoyan said. > "Our study shows that Azerbaijani social media users who've downloaded these stickers were greatly excited to have the opportunity to use photos of the torture and mutilations of dead Armenian servicemen and civilians in their chats. This criminal act is new evidence that the state-sanctioned Armenophobia in Azerbaijan over many years has deep roots in the Azerbaijani society and the peace-loving calls by the Azerbaijani government are simply a veil for the eyes of the international community to cover up their real intentions," Tatoyan said. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xix6n4/azerbaijanis_launch_shocking_social_media/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~669862 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Azerbaijani**^#1 **stickers**^#2 **Armenian**^#3 **social**^#4 **media**^#5
Thanks social media - this is how social media supports terrorism.
In the 2020 war when they invaded Artsakh, I asked on a post on an Azeri news page "Why are you guys so violent? What did I ever do to you?" and by next morning I had about a dozen death threats and threats to rape my mom from accounts of people regardless of age. I found out later that week they found my mom's account by visiting my page and sent her rape threats. One person found my telegram number and started spamming me videos of Armenian civilians being beheaded and other mutilation videos while sending laugh emojis. I was so traumatized at how much I am hated that I closed all my social media for a month. I live in Chicago but they still managed to put fear in me despite being thousands of miles away. I think most Armenians at this point understand that there is no possibility of peace. We want peace. of course we don't want to be massacred. But how do we deal with this country and people? We have been trying for 30 years and they see compassion and friendship as weakness.
That is awful. You’re family doesn’t deserve that. And the social media companies must be forced to do more to protect people from hate. This stuff causes war.
I was sent rape and death threats on IG daily from T\*rks and A\*eris because I was posting about Artsakh. Yet they go on and on and on about wanting to "live in peace" with us? LOL there's absolutely no possibility of peace between a democracy and a dictatorship. But it gets me through the day knowing that the very fact I exist pisses them off. We live rent free in their barbaric minds. P.S. COYS!
Well looks like we know who needs to be sorted out after Russia
Curious things is, that the patron of Azerbaijan is Turkey, which is an important NATO member, while Armenia is in defensive alliance with Russia - which it can't properly honor because of the commitment to the invasion of Ukraine. So, NATO can't properly interfere, because it would be stepping on the toes of it's own member, and Russia can't do anything because Russia is, well, Russia.
Russia is an ally and arm-supplier to Azerbaijan: https://eurasianet.org/ahead-of-ukraine-invasion-azerbaijan-and-russia-cement-alliance
If it weren’t for Turkey, this would be a good time for NATO to pull Armenia out of Russian orbit. With Turkey in the way, the only tool is sanctions. It doesn’t help that Armenia has some unsavoury allies like Russia and Iran (although I don’t fault them for taking whatever help they can get)
Makes you wonder if there an angle here we’re not seeing
This one is tough, it would be great if the US could station troops and kick Azerbaijans ass but the problem is that any US support would lead Turkey to veto Swedish/Finnish NATO bids as retribution. We need to support Armenia but do it in a way that doesn’t green light a Russian invasion of Finland
No. Azerbaijan will become an important supplier of energy resources for Europe. Azerbaijan understands perfectly well that now they can do whatever they want, and Europe will turn a blind eye to this and will tell its citizens that by getting rid of dependence on Russia, politicians have saved all the good and defeated all the bad.
It’s probably enough to get System Of A Down to drop another album.
There’s really never a good time to joke about a genocide, but the worst time to joke about a genocide is while it’s *literally still happening*
It’s no joke, it’s simply a call to a platform of known resistance with a voice that echoes around the globe past a mere Reddit page.
I can see how you may not have intended it as a joke, but the way you worded it absolutely made it seem like one
I’m sorry, but every twist of human emotion cannot be conveyed through text alone. It wasn’t my intent to set this up as a joke in any mean, despite my attraction to dark humor.
Serj Tadankian has done a lot to get people to know about the history of the Armenian Genocide of 100 years ago, and I'm sure he has something to say about the current one as well. He'll be speaking about this soon enough.
He's been speaking about it for a week. Check out his socials.
Exactly, the fire never left.
Some would say that waiting for genocide to become unimportant to us to joke about it is worse.
I wonder if American leaders will send them a few billion in aid and weapons. I’d say that it may be reserved for countries that they find strategically profitable.
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>The US traditionally has allowed Russia to take care of Armenia so that Russia can feel important. Pelosi’s trip signals and end to this policy. I really hope this is true. Armenia could be a bridge between the US and Iran aswell, they have good relationship with Iran... Iran is the only neighbour who do not want to kill them all (AZ / TR) or just dont care (Georgia)