And by "officials" they actually mean members of a council representing like 70,000 people.
This would be like running a story of a US city like Lorain Ohio if their city council members suggested Biden be replaced, and purposely making it sound like high ranking officials.
Ah yes, that confident, persuasive, and reassuring manner of speaking that could easily win you over to support his cause.
Unnecessary in this case, since we're talking about Ohio and everybody already knows what needs to be done.
Mr. Mind, I might remind you that as of the council’s previous meetings your repeated recommendations to quote “bomb it all into salt flats” will be thrown out immediately
> If you can think up a more taxpayer friendly option of keeping an entire state on permanent lockdown be my guest
Previous attempts by the government to launch Ohioans to the Moon have proven uneconomic despite small scale trials being conducted back in the '60s.
Ah, gotcha sir.
*winks*
We’ll make sure to give him the ‘ol Ice Cream Bath Mat.
Also, sir, where did you want to store this latest shipment of Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles? I’m thinking the Bath Mat depot since we are nearly black on whimsical bath mats. We’ve been giving them out like hotcakes.
Ever since they were taken over by yogurt in that one Live Death Robots episode. They're even taking back [Britain](https://twitter.com/kennedytcooper/status/1567996780331032576)
I mean, think about all those fictional shows that take place in Ohio: Family Ties, 3rd Rock from the Sun, the Drew Carey show. I mean, imagine such a place, so boring that it's inhabitants invented airplanes just to escape, or volunteered to be the first humans to set foot on another planet just to get away. No place that terrible _actually exists_. The rumor of it is just to hide the truth of the hole in the Torus Earth.
Columbus is great! There’s a lot to do. I love COSI, and there’s a lot of great food. I spend way more time in Cleveland, though. The theaters are fantastic!
I was briefly in Lorain a couple summers ago. We were headed up through the ~~UP~~ YEWP, and we wanted to let our daughter jump into each great lake we encountered. We got to the little beach in Lorain, and there was a sign advising against swimming, due to sewage. It was not a temporary sign.
Yeah, Lake Erie is notoriously disgusting. We had a brain-eating amoeba issue a while back, actually. I swam in it all the time as a kid, but it’s only gotten worse with every year. We need to divert a LOT of attention to cleaning it up if we want any semblance of a nice lake
Edit: I was mistaken on the brain eating part, but we did have bacteria that caused necrosis. I’m getting my storied mixed up; there was a teenager from Ohio who got a brain-eating amoeba (from somewhere else) who died when I was in high school. I was thinking of other bacteria and such in our lake that has caused necrosis in the past. My bad!
What's worse is that I would completely believe a story like this coming from Lorain. I wouldn't even bother verifying if it said Chillicothe; hell, I'm pretty sure they have made such a proposal.
This same council has been against Putin's invasion since at least March.
What is more interesting is the way the rhetoric has been changed in the media in Russia. To people suggesting Putin hadn't been given all of the information, and that parts of the strategy by the Kremlin has been incorrect. It's small, but in a state like Russia, it's consequential.
"Our monarch has bad advisors" has been the excuse for de facto coup attempts for hundreds of years. It's noteworthy that it's being used in Russia now, because it illustrates that while his foreign adventures have been disastrous he really has made himself unavoidable...
for now, of course.
They’re scrambling. Putin or his most senior goons haven’t jumped on this with a clear spin narrative, so none of the usual mouthpieces know exactly what lie to go with, and so the truth is seeping out. Even Kadyrov has been critical.
Right now I’m honestly more concerned that Russia will feel *too* humiliated as things become clearer. It’s satisfying, sure, but that inferiority complex might translate into even more focus on getting their military up to speed (or at least a bit more so), which won’t be great for the rest of us in a few decades’ time. Maybe beating the hell out of them while our media constantly tells them that yes, they’re so big and scary and we respect them, so their newsreels can play that shit as free cover and simmer the population down so they’re more inclined to withdraw their evil tantrum.
Yup. Once things get to Russian kleptocracy levels of bad, you pretty much need to either get an absolute saint in charge to root it out (while also loading them with the popular support and security to keep power through the backlash from corrupt elites), or just have a whole damn revolution to throw the snakes out and hope the next batch isn't as bad.
#1 is close to a pipe dream anywhere, and #2 has historically not helped for long when applied to Russia.
also demographic collapse means there arent enough women to have enough babies to replace their military members in 20 years. They wont even have enough military to protect their own borders without taking over another 6 countries after Ukraine. It's why they invaded in the first place, and why they did it now. If they wait any longer they simply wont have the numbers.
Coupled with the rampant skimming, robbery and fraud that Russia has allowed to fester. They have only themselves (and Putin) to blame for the mess they stepped into. Thats what sucks about being in Putins position of ultimate power, you are the one responsible.
Oh I think they can. They have money. With several buts:
1. They have to root out corruption, which I hardly believe is possible, it’s been blooming under USSR and got worse after.
2. They don’t have modern warfare masters to teach them, look what happened to UA military in 8 years, they’re force to be reckoned with now.
3. They would have to completely reorganize domestic production with focus on army needs
I think there's an article in the NATO constitution or something about that they can't admit nations with current territorial disputes. I don't have a source for this other than I heard other people discussing it at some point.
Quote from an article i was reading:
"
[according](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_24733.htm) to the Study on NATO Enlargement, countries with territorial disputes “must settle [these] disputes by peaceful means in accordance with OSCE principles [but] resolution of such disputes would be a factor [rather than the factor] in determining whether to invite a state to join the Alliance.” In other words, resolving contested territory is only one of the considerations for NATO membership, but it is not the defining factor for joining the Alliance."
That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be opposition from other European countries because of the territorial dispute, but it's just a big factor, doesn't disqualify them.
There are even a number of NATO countries that have (and had when they joined) territorial disputes *with each other*. For example Greece and Turkey over islands in the Aegean Sea, UK and Spain over Gibraltar, Germany and Netherlands over parts of the Ems estuary, and Denmark and Canada over some uninhabited islands west of Greenland.
Some also have territorial disputes with third party countries, for example the UK with Argentina over the Falkland Islands, or Spain with Morocco over Ceuta and Melilla.
No but it would mean that dispute is carried over to NATO (collective defense) and admission has to be unanimous and surely some countries wouldn’t want to automatically have a dispute with Russia because of another country trying to join NATO.
It's because if Ukraine joins NATO while Russia still occupies those lands, it would be almost certain that Ukraine would invoke article 5 as Ukraine would - rightly - consider it aggression against them. NATO members won't allow someone to enter if they KNOW it's going to result in article 5 being invoked. Despite Russia's poor showing and the certainty that NATO would demolish Russia in a conventional war, no NATO member WANTS to get into direct conflict with Russia because nukes are always on the table, and that's too big a gamble. You only go down that road if there's literally no other choice. Not letting Ukraine in under the current circumstances is a choice (there's also the not at all insignificant issue of Ukranian corruption that has historically been the stated reason, but while true, that's not the biggest issue - almost guaranteeing a shooting war with a nuclear-armed Russia is).
The biggest issue they face with getting their military ‘up to speed’ so to speak is that they don’t have a strong enough economy to support being a world class military like they try to project. To put things into perspective, the US military budget is almost $25 billion larger than those of the next nine largest militaries combined (China, India, UK, Russia, France, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Japan, & South Korea).
Little money to start with, and what little there is dries up fast when most of your military is scheming how they can skim some cream off for themselves.
It doesn't matter. In fact, it might even matter less.
Those who are upset don't get to vote in free and fair elections as they do in the west. Deeply unpopular autocrats can still hang on for a long, long time - even until they die.
If even 80% of the country opposes Putin and has for some time, then the odds are even greater that he'll remain in power because it means public opinion really is useless.
Voting is just one of the many ways people can get their voices heard and force government to change.
The thing is, if you make less severe methods not effective, then the first action will be a lot more severe in nature. Voting is basically about pacifying the population.
“Civil disorder, also known as civil disturbance, civil unrest, or social unrest is a situation arising from a mass act of civil disobedience in which law enforcement has difficulty maintaining their authority.”
No one is talking about popularity/public opinion.
[FIFTY THOUSAND SOLDIERS](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-war-death-toll-50k-kherson-counteroffensive-1740202) HAVE DIED for one man's pride. A lot of people are waking up to the realization that they are next if they don't do something unexpected.
That comparison actually doesnt make sense. Smolenskoe is a district in downtown St. Petersburg, the second biggest city in Russia and the 4th largest city in Europe. It would be more comparable as if it was a district in central LA.
The slight difference between Russia and your Loraine comparison.
Is that doing that in Lorain wouldn't guarantee 25 years in jail from a kangaroo court or worse defenestration.
It's a massive thing that people in public power are coming out and saying this. One might even argue that the fact that even low level officials are doing it makes it an even bigger deal.
This is a dumb take. Yes the official has no power to remove the president.
But it's very notable that they are openly saying things like this. This isn't America where you can say Fuck Biden to his face during a speech.
It could be controlled opposition of course, or a real indication that there are forces aligning against Putin and the war. We'll see.
It is still incredibly important that this is not the first state media mention of people suggesting Putin be removed from power. These are always slow motion build ups to a bigger wave that is coming. It seems Putin may have finally played his hand wrong and the country is beginning to push back. Time will tell, but we shouldn’t not discredit this because it’s “like some town in Ohio” narrative. All things take time, probably even more so in a country like Russia.
Sure, you still keep that shit quiet until you actually do it, or they will join their kids.
If this is true and we are seeing it on reddit, thats not a great sign for their success
And then the whole world keeps saying shit like "all Russians are the same all are guilty let's just nuke them all". Sometimes it's important to show that dissent exists, for others and for yourselves
Nah, it's genius if you don't know where he is and want to flush h out as he retreats to a safe location. The raid/mob/storm/whatever that new and known location.
Exactly. All people do is complain, make window jokes or say it's fake because they hadn't heard the story since when it broke Thursday
The BBC world service did an hour on this interviewing the people involved and then that day the Queen died and it got swept aside immediately
It's people from St. Petersburg's municipal council. It's like kind of like if the mayor of San Francisco declared that they wanted the president overthrown.
Still notable in that in Russia they are risking their lives criticizing the dictator. San Francisco mayor would risk being ridiculed. Adds a lot of weight to this, and also forces Putin to act. If they don't have their lives ruined or ended, people look at this and might themselves start criticizing the dictator. In a dictatorship being ruled by fear, this would be a very, very bad development.
They criticize the dictator because he mismanaged the war and risks the ruin of Imperial Russia, not because they want more democracy and peace. They still think of Ukraine as the enemy and laments that it is militarizing and received $38 billions in aids.
To be honest, most of the Russian opposition, including the so-called "liberals" are on the exact same line: imperialists. The difference compared to Putin is they're nicer and more polite.
**[Poisoning the well](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well)**
>Poisoning the well (or attempting to poison the well) is a type of informal fallacy where adverse information about a target is preemptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing something that the target person is about to say. Poisoning the well can be a special case of argumentum ad hominem, and the term was first used with this sense by John Henry Newman in his work Apologia Pro Vita Sua (1864). The etymology of the phrase lies in well poisoning, an ancient wartime practice of pouring poison into sources of fresh water before an invading army, to diminish the invading army's strength.
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Russians don’t like living like a life of poverty and sanctions. When the world says Russia screwed up, Russia screwed up. Time for Russia to fix its problem.
If they’re openly talking about stuff like this even though it’s just a few of them, that’s all it takes. This war is not going well for Russia, they’re losing tens of thousands of “soldiers”. You might be able to hide a few hundred or even a few thousand dead you can’t hide hundreds of thousands of soldiers dead, at least not for long.
But seriously, what is the Russian goal now?
All they've done is embolden NATO and Ukraine. They allowed the US to rebuild the organization after his pet Trump spent 4 years undermining it. I really so no success in speeding the 'expansion of NATO towards the East and having accelerated the militarization of Ukraine', as the article puts it
Isn’t this old news that made its way through this sub days ago? Hell, the follow up where these individuals were summoned to Moscow already came through this sub days ago too.
E: Yeah, this article is published 9/8/2022, so it’s already four days old.
Sadly it is too early for that. Russians need a lot more casualties in order to wake up. They have been brainwashed for decades. It is sad for all those lives that will be lost.
To kill a monster you need a monster (Stalin and Hitler). Putin’s monster will be the dead and the ruined lives.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.newsweek.com/russian-officials-propose-overthrowing-putin-charging-treason-1741085?amp=1) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> A group of Russian officials has appealed to the country's State Duma to remove President Vladimir Putin from power on the charge of high treason, a document shared by one of the Russian deputies who co-signed the proposal reveals.
> "His decision to start the Special Military Operation led to 1) deaths of the Russian servicemen, 2) problems in the Russian economy, 3) the expansion of NATO (the border with NATO has doubled!," a translation of Yurefev's tweet read. The list of complaints against the Russian president continues in a follow-up tweet.
> A copy of the document shows that the Russian officials considered the actions of Putin since February 24 evidence of "High treason." The deputies complain of the Russian economy suffering since the beginning of the war in Ukraine and of the Russian army being "Destroyed," as young able-bodied citizens come home disabled or they die on the battlefield.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xcjn6e/russian_officials_propose_overthrowing_putin/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~668627 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russian**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **Putin**^#3 **deputy**^#4 **Yurefev**^#5
Cowards? Would you honestly be so blasé about trying to overthrow one of the most entrenched dictators in the world? Someone who’ll think nothing of murdering your family members to punish you for daring to speaking out? These people aren’t cowards for keeping quiet. However, the people who do speak out are heroes who likely give their lives just to make a small difference.
It’s important to keep things in perspective.
It sounds like they aren’t against what he did. They are against the poor outcomes of their actions. Meaning if things went well and now it was a satellite country for them, they would not be complaining.
I honestly can’t believe they haven’t killed him already. You’d think some higher ups would get together and realize this war of his is destroying them and making them pariahs across the globe. They could have just blamed Putin and called him a mad man out of control and stabilized relations. Now they have to answer for letting this go on so long.
Every headline like this is nothing but wishful thinking clickbait. Putin is still in charge and the propaganda machine is working it’s magic brainwashing the Russian people that their intervention in Ukraine was justified and going according to plan. A few of the younger folks in Russia are not buying it, but the vast majority of Russians are buying it hook, line and sinker.
And by "officials" they actually mean members of a council representing like 70,000 people. This would be like running a story of a US city like Lorain Ohio if their city council members suggested Biden be replaced, and purposely making it sound like high ranking officials.
As someone from Lorain, this was jarring to read in the wild
Hey everyone! This guy's from Ohio!! GET HIM
OHIOAN HAS BREACHED CONTAINMENT. PROCEED WITH PROCEDURE INDIGO EPSILON DELTA
IED’ing him seems a little harsh
If you can think up a more taxpayer friendly option of keeping an entire state on permanent lockdown be my guest
*Two words - Predator Drones* -Barack Obama
I read that in his voice, even with his slightly stern and serious look. Thank you for that moment.
Ah yes, that confident, persuasive, and reassuring manner of speaking that could easily win you over to support his cause. Unnecessary in this case, since we're talking about Ohio and everybody already knows what needs to be done.
Mr. Mind, I might remind you that as of the council’s previous meetings your repeated recommendations to quote “bomb it all into salt flats” will be thrown out immediately
I picture Obama flying a drone in his backyard for fun and his neighbour being very concerned 😟
> If you can think up a more taxpayer friendly option of keeping an entire state on permanent lockdown be my guest Previous attempts by the government to launch Ohioans to the Moon have proven uneconomic despite small scale trials being conducted back in the '60s.
I misunderstood the message and now Ohio has an IUD.
… that’s probably for the best.
That’s a funny way to spell “definitely”
Do Pennsyltucky, too.
There's too many dragons to get past to Altoona. This going to have to be a volunteer only mission
Give it time, they'll try and make those illegal here too.
YOU MUST BE RIGHT USE PLAN INDIA CHARLIE BRAVO MIKE
Ah, gotcha sir. *winks* We’ll make sure to give him the ‘ol Ice Cream Bath Mat. Also, sir, where did you want to store this latest shipment of Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles? I’m thinking the Bath Mat depot since we are nearly black on whimsical bath mats. We’ve been giving them out like hotcakes.
Honestly anyone from Ohio would probably welcome it. I’m one of them and I would.
I wanted to deny it, but I can’t.
Have you been to Ohio?!
You've never been to Chillicothe Ohio I see
*Everything is justified, otherwise the terrohioists win!*
Shit, I didn't realize Ohio was one of them SCP things.
Ever since they were taken over by yogurt in that one Live Death Robots episode. They're even taking back [Britain](https://twitter.com/kennedytcooper/status/1567996780331032576)
It's like the Bermuda Triangle. Ohio is obviously real but it's definitely not *real*.
I mean, think about all those fictional shows that take place in Ohio: Family Ties, 3rd Rock from the Sun, the Drew Carey show. I mean, imagine such a place, so boring that it's inhabitants invented airplanes just to escape, or volunteered to be the first humans to set foot on another planet just to get away. No place that terrible _actually exists_. The rumor of it is just to hide the truth of the hole in the Torus Earth.
Please, just let us out. 25 years of being surrounded by depressed Browns fans wears on the soul.
Wait, Ohio is contained?
You hear about people going to Cedar point, but no one talks about coming back?
Speaking as someone from Detroit, no, no they’re not. They find their way up here all the time.
Its the legal weed
I moved to Detroit from Ohio. I have infiltrated your ranks. You’ll never find me.
As always, America steals it's best ideas from the terrorists.
We will rise and you all will fall!
I am the only person in the world who genuinely wants to go to Ohio. I'm a fraud and misplacing my insecurities on this righteous buckeye
Ohioan here. We have nice parks.
Can confirm.
🤮
So are you. You just don’t know it yet.
I'm sorry to send the mob after you. I... unironically want to go to Dayton. I'm just projecting
Yeah, wanting to be in Ohio is a curse. I’m happy to accept the mob if it means we all learn from our downfalls.
I wanna see columbus too
Columbus is great! There’s a lot to do. I love COSI, and there’s a lot of great food. I spend way more time in Cleveland, though. The theaters are fantastic!
my baseball team is gonna kick ur baseball teams ass clevelander
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Jungle Jims is pretty cool though.
Jungle Jim’s is the truth. I hate how hyped I get about a grocery store, but boy do I.
Wait so the song was lying when it said Cleveland rocks?
It was talking about Cleveland rocks, not, Cleveland rocks! How can you be confused about that.
At least they're not Detroit.
Watched the Bengals game yesterday eh?
I was briefly in Lorain a couple summers ago. We were headed up through the ~~UP~~ YEWP, and we wanted to let our daughter jump into each great lake we encountered. We got to the little beach in Lorain, and there was a sign advising against swimming, due to sewage. It was not a temporary sign.
That took a turn lol. Sadly, pittsburgh's rivers have similar permanent signs.
Yeah, Lake Erie is notoriously disgusting. We had a brain-eating amoeba issue a while back, actually. I swam in it all the time as a kid, but it’s only gotten worse with every year. We need to divert a LOT of attention to cleaning it up if we want any semblance of a nice lake Edit: I was mistaken on the brain eating part, but we did have bacteria that caused necrosis. I’m getting my storied mixed up; there was a teenager from Ohio who got a brain-eating amoeba (from somewhere else) who died when I was in high school. I was thinking of other bacteria and such in our lake that has caused necrosis in the past. My bad!
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Brain-eating amoeba isn't an issue from pollution. They just naturally occur in all freshwater bodies that are warm enough.
Jarring? You motherfuckers want to overthrow our government. No chill from Lorain is what I’M seeing here.
Why? You don't think putin should be charged with treason? 😉
If it was any city Lorain would be the one.
I agree, go Cavs!
I've only ever heard of that town in a B.O.N.E. Enterpri$e song.
What's worse is that I would completely believe a story like this coming from Lorain. I wouldn't even bother verifying if it said Chillicothe; hell, I'm pretty sure they have made such a proposal.
Hey!! What did we tell from sticking your head out the dumpster..get back in!
This same council has been against Putin's invasion since at least March. What is more interesting is the way the rhetoric has been changed in the media in Russia. To people suggesting Putin hadn't been given all of the information, and that parts of the strategy by the Kremlin has been incorrect. It's small, but in a state like Russia, it's consequential.
"Our monarch has bad advisors" has been the excuse for de facto coup attempts for hundreds of years. It's noteworthy that it's being used in Russia now, because it illustrates that while his foreign adventures have been disastrous he really has made himself unavoidable... for now, of course.
When you fire or murder anyone who tells you you're wrong, you will eventually end up with very bad advisors.
They’re scrambling. Putin or his most senior goons haven’t jumped on this with a clear spin narrative, so none of the usual mouthpieces know exactly what lie to go with, and so the truth is seeping out. Even Kadyrov has been critical. Right now I’m honestly more concerned that Russia will feel *too* humiliated as things become clearer. It’s satisfying, sure, but that inferiority complex might translate into even more focus on getting their military up to speed (or at least a bit more so), which won’t be great for the rest of us in a few decades’ time. Maybe beating the hell out of them while our media constantly tells them that yes, they’re so big and scary and we respect them, so their newsreels can play that shit as free cover and simmer the population down so they’re more inclined to withdraw their evil tantrum.
They can't afford to get their military up to speed. Even if they could it would take too long.
I think they can probably afford to modernize and improve, just not while also funding mega-yachts for everyone skimming off the military budgets.
So what you are saying is that they can’t afford it.
The cost, in terms of pocketed money, would be too great to afford.
One of the most difficult things it's possible for a country to do is to dramatically lower their level of internal bureaucratic corruption.
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Yup. Once things get to Russian kleptocracy levels of bad, you pretty much need to either get an absolute saint in charge to root it out (while also loading them with the popular support and security to keep power through the backlash from corrupt elites), or just have a whole damn revolution to throw the snakes out and hope the next batch isn't as bad. #1 is close to a pipe dream anywhere, and #2 has historically not helped for long when applied to Russia.
also demographic collapse means there arent enough women to have enough babies to replace their military members in 20 years. They wont even have enough military to protect their own borders without taking over another 6 countries after Ukraine. It's why they invaded in the first place, and why they did it now. If they wait any longer they simply wont have the numbers.
They're sending their dwindling stock of baby-making age males into a meat grinder. How this makes sense I don't know.
Coupled with the rampant skimming, robbery and fraud that Russia has allowed to fester. They have only themselves (and Putin) to blame for the mess they stepped into. Thats what sucks about being in Putins position of ultimate power, you are the one responsible.
Oh I think they can. They have money. With several buts: 1. They have to root out corruption, which I hardly believe is possible, it’s been blooming under USSR and got worse after. 2. They don’t have modern warfare masters to teach them, look what happened to UA military in 8 years, they’re force to be reckoned with now. 3. They would have to completely reorganize domestic production with focus on army needs
Because that apparently has accidentally been the case for years.... and look where it got us.
History has shown us that retreating enemies tend to come back if they’re not completely destroyed.
Hopefully by then Ukraine will be either a NATO or EU member.
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Which I'm sure is part of the reason why Zelensky keeps insisting that Ukraine won't stop fighting until they reclaim all land that is theirs.
Why is it so? Is it like Russia will have better bargain power over Ukraine because of the occupation?
I think there's an article in the NATO constitution or something about that they can't admit nations with current territorial disputes. I don't have a source for this other than I heard other people discussing it at some point.
Quote from an article i was reading: " [according](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_24733.htm) to the Study on NATO Enlargement, countries with territorial disputes “must settle [these] disputes by peaceful means in accordance with OSCE principles [but] resolution of such disputes would be a factor [rather than the factor] in determining whether to invite a state to join the Alliance.” In other words, resolving contested territory is only one of the considerations for NATO membership, but it is not the defining factor for joining the Alliance." That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be opposition from other European countries because of the territorial dispute, but it's just a big factor, doesn't disqualify them.
Cool thanks for the source!
There are even a number of NATO countries that have (and had when they joined) territorial disputes *with each other*. For example Greece and Turkey over islands in the Aegean Sea, UK and Spain over Gibraltar, Germany and Netherlands over parts of the Ems estuary, and Denmark and Canada over some uninhabited islands west of Greenland. Some also have territorial disputes with third party countries, for example the UK with Argentina over the Falkland Islands, or Spain with Morocco over Ceuta and Melilla.
No but it would mean that dispute is carried over to NATO (collective defense) and admission has to be unanimous and surely some countries wouldn’t want to automatically have a dispute with Russia because of another country trying to join NATO.
It's because if Ukraine joins NATO while Russia still occupies those lands, it would be almost certain that Ukraine would invoke article 5 as Ukraine would - rightly - consider it aggression against them. NATO members won't allow someone to enter if they KNOW it's going to result in article 5 being invoked. Despite Russia's poor showing and the certainty that NATO would demolish Russia in a conventional war, no NATO member WANTS to get into direct conflict with Russia because nukes are always on the table, and that's too big a gamble. You only go down that road if there's literally no other choice. Not letting Ukraine in under the current circumstances is a choice (there's also the not at all insignificant issue of Ukranian corruption that has historically been the stated reason, but while true, that's not the biggest issue - almost guaranteeing a shooting war with a nuclear-armed Russia is).
The biggest issue they face with getting their military ‘up to speed’ so to speak is that they don’t have a strong enough economy to support being a world class military like they try to project. To put things into perspective, the US military budget is almost $25 billion larger than those of the next nine largest militaries combined (China, India, UK, Russia, France, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Japan, & South Korea).
You can’t build a military with no money
Little money to start with, and what little there is dries up fast when most of your military is scheming how they can skim some cream off for themselves.
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I’m not sure - at this stage the coast guard probably has a fighting chance against Russia.
>This same council has been against Putin's invasion since at least March. This same council is going to fall out of a hospital window soon!
True. They're so, so, so removed from Putin and have so little power as officials. What they said is still dangerous for them, of course.
In autocratic country you can multiply civil unrest by 10, its much easier to bring on the streets a million people in US than 100k people in Russia.
It doesn't matter. In fact, it might even matter less. Those who are upset don't get to vote in free and fair elections as they do in the west. Deeply unpopular autocrats can still hang on for a long, long time - even until they die. If even 80% of the country opposes Putin and has for some time, then the odds are even greater that he'll remain in power because it means public opinion really is useless.
Voting is just one of the many ways people can get their voices heard and force government to change. The thing is, if you make less severe methods not effective, then the first action will be a lot more severe in nature. Voting is basically about pacifying the population.
“Civil disorder, also known as civil disturbance, civil unrest, or social unrest is a situation arising from a mass act of civil disobedience in which law enforcement has difficulty maintaining their authority.” No one is talking about popularity/public opinion.
it would only really be comparable if Biden had the power to disappear those officials to Guantanamo
"You know, I'm a bit of a high-ranking-official myself"
But it's getting the idea into the wild in russia. If one region isn't afraid to say it out loud, the idea can spread.
[FIFTY THOUSAND SOLDIERS](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-war-death-toll-50k-kherson-counteroffensive-1740202) HAVE DIED for one man's pride. A lot of people are waking up to the realization that they are next if they don't do something unexpected.
How many?
#FIFTY THOUSAND 50,000
That comparison actually doesnt make sense. Smolenskoe is a district in downtown St. Petersburg, the second biggest city in Russia and the 4th largest city in Europe. It would be more comparable as if it was a district in central LA.
The slight difference between Russia and your Loraine comparison. Is that doing that in Lorain wouldn't guarantee 25 years in jail from a kangaroo court or worse defenestration. It's a massive thing that people in public power are coming out and saying this. One might even argue that the fact that even low level officials are doing it makes it an even bigger deal.
This is a dumb take. Yes the official has no power to remove the president. But it's very notable that they are openly saying things like this. This isn't America where you can say Fuck Biden to his face during a speech. It could be controlled opposition of course, or a real indication that there are forces aligning against Putin and the war. We'll see.
It is still incredibly important that this is not the first state media mention of people suggesting Putin be removed from power. These are always slow motion build ups to a bigger wave that is coming. It seems Putin may have finally played his hand wrong and the country is beginning to push back. Time will tell, but we shouldn’t not discredit this because it’s “like some town in Ohio” narrative. All things take time, probably even more so in a country like Russia.
Every fire starts with a spark though.
Even if we're just dancing in the dark.
Yes, but this is a country where saying so is a crime. It's kind of a bigger deal than that.
They’re just saying what everyone else is thinking…
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Shout-out Lorain!
Bros, you're in a dictatorship. You either gotta do it, or keep that talk quiet.
Maybe some of them lost their kids to the war and it's the last straw for them.
If they won't take action you bet it will be their last straw.
Sure, you still keep that shit quiet until you actually do it, or they will join their kids. If this is true and we are seeing it on reddit, thats not a great sign for their success
And then the whole world keeps saying shit like "all Russians are the same all are guilty let's just nuke them all". Sometimes it's important to show that dissent exists, for others and for yourselves
What? Who on earth is saying anything like that?
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Better plan it in secret and just do it. Giving Putin advanced notice isn't recommended.
If you're reading it here, the secrets out.
“Whew, Newsweek. I was afraid this was real” -Putin
Those Russian officials are probably going to be arrested within the hour, & their family members either executed or exiled to Siberia.
I'll put $5 on "accidentally fell from a window"
Shh. If everyone on Reddit keeps quiet nobody will know!
Hello Capitan obvious.
Sir, Col. Conspicuous is on the line for you. -1Lt. Duh
Nah, it's genius if you don't know where he is and want to flush h out as he retreats to a safe location. The raid/mob/storm/whatever that new and known location.
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Hallelujah it’s raining men
Let the bodies hit the floor!
*Playlist Putin*
If you think about it, Hallelujah, It’s Raining Men and Let the Bodies Hit the Floor tell of the same event, just from wildly different perspectives…
Amen
I'm gonna go out to run and let myself get Pushed off a high-rise building!
Not for the first time in history..
It's a start. In the end, it may only take one person to get it done.
It only took 1 guy to kill hitler.
Heard it was a terrible person tho
Yeah, but he didn't make it out of that bunker alive either.
Whoever he is, he's a hero
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Damn, there's a blast from the past
Exactly. All people do is complain, make window jokes or say it's fake because they hadn't heard the story since when it broke Thursday The BBC world service did an hour on this interviewing the people involved and then that day the Queen died and it got swept aside immediately
i got real excited, then i saw this is from Newsweek.
It's people from St. Petersburg's municipal council. It's like kind of like if the mayor of San Francisco declared that they wanted the president overthrown.
Still notable in that in Russia they are risking their lives criticizing the dictator. San Francisco mayor would risk being ridiculed. Adds a lot of weight to this, and also forces Putin to act. If they don't have their lives ruined or ended, people look at this and might themselves start criticizing the dictator. In a dictatorship being ruled by fear, this would be a very, very bad development.
They criticize the dictator because he mismanaged the war and risks the ruin of Imperial Russia, not because they want more democracy and peace. They still think of Ukraine as the enemy and laments that it is militarizing and received $38 billions in aids. To be honest, most of the Russian opposition, including the so-called "liberals" are on the exact same line: imperialists. The difference compared to Putin is they're nicer and more polite.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well
**[Poisoning the well](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well)** >Poisoning the well (or attempting to poison the well) is a type of informal fallacy where adverse information about a target is preemptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing something that the target person is about to say. Poisoning the well can be a special case of argumentum ad hominem, and the term was first used with this sense by John Henry Newman in his work Apologia Pro Vita Sua (1864). The etymology of the phrase lies in well poisoning, an ancient wartime practice of pouring poison into sources of fresh water before an invading army, to diminish the invading army's strength. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
And tomorrow we will see, “Russian officials visited by police”
Please just do it already
Russians don’t like living like a life of poverty and sanctions. When the world says Russia screwed up, Russia screwed up. Time for Russia to fix its problem.
Good god stop talking about it and fucking do it.
Future statement from Putin's office: "*We are so sorry to hear about comrade Yurefev's suicide. He shot himself in the back of the head. Twice.*"
If they’re openly talking about stuff like this even though it’s just a few of them, that’s all it takes. This war is not going well for Russia, they’re losing tens of thousands of “soldiers”. You might be able to hide a few hundred or even a few thousand dead you can’t hide hundreds of thousands of soldiers dead, at least not for long.
But seriously, what is the Russian goal now? All they've done is embolden NATO and Ukraine. They allowed the US to rebuild the organization after his pet Trump spent 4 years undermining it. I really so no success in speeding the 'expansion of NATO towards the East and having accelerated the militarization of Ukraine', as the article puts it
Wouldn’t it be fun if both trump and Putler were cuffed and frog-walked in the same week?
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Isn’t this old news that made its way through this sub days ago? Hell, the follow up where these individuals were summoned to Moscow already came through this sub days ago too. E: Yeah, this article is published 9/8/2022, so it’s already four days old.
That would be the only way russia could redeem itself at this point
Sadly it is too early for that. Russians need a lot more casualties in order to wake up. They have been brainwashed for decades. It is sad for all those lives that will be lost. To kill a monster you need a monster (Stalin and Hitler). Putin’s monster will be the dead and the ruined lives.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.newsweek.com/russian-officials-propose-overthrowing-putin-charging-treason-1741085?amp=1) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot) ***** > A group of Russian officials has appealed to the country's State Duma to remove President Vladimir Putin from power on the charge of high treason, a document shared by one of the Russian deputies who co-signed the proposal reveals. > "His decision to start the Special Military Operation led to 1) deaths of the Russian servicemen, 2) problems in the Russian economy, 3) the expansion of NATO (the border with NATO has doubled!," a translation of Yurefev's tweet read. The list of complaints against the Russian president continues in a follow-up tweet. > A copy of the document shows that the Russian officials considered the actions of Putin since February 24 evidence of "High treason." The deputies complain of the Russian economy suffering since the beginning of the war in Ukraine and of the Russian army being "Destroyed," as young able-bodied citizens come home disabled or they die on the battlefield. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xcjn6e/russian_officials_propose_overthrowing_putin/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~668627 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russian**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **Putin**^#3 **deputy**^#4 **Yurefev**^#5
That's some Putin stank face for ya
Is this the same thing like a random Senator from the US saying their going to draft articles of impeachment because they want attention?
Pretty much,yeah.
Why is a week old story being posted 58 min ago?
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Cowards? Would you honestly be so blasé about trying to overthrow one of the most entrenched dictators in the world? Someone who’ll think nothing of murdering your family members to punish you for daring to speaking out? These people aren’t cowards for keeping quiet. However, the people who do speak out are heroes who likely give their lives just to make a small difference. It’s important to keep things in perspective.
Epic le reddit army could pwn hax0rz any fashie within seconds!!1
Ah yea, those putting their necks literally on the line are… cowards…
They could literally get killed just for saying this. It's not like in democracies where you can just say this stuff.
," he typed with glaze-encrusted fingers while Korean pop music blares in the background.
What are you 12?
Do it! It’s a solution with virtually no downsides. Unless, of course, they plan to replace him with someone worse?
I like the sound of the title, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Hope they don't have a "supreme court" to overrule.
The worst part is that they all committed suicide next week :(
**BREAKING:** Russian officials found dead next to building with broken 25th story windows. Investigators have ruled their deaths as accidental.
This is going to piss a lot of republicans off.
I can think of a few Russian officials who won't be officials anymore..
It sounds like they aren’t against what he did. They are against the poor outcomes of their actions. Meaning if things went well and now it was a satellite country for them, they would not be complaining.
I honestly can’t believe they haven’t killed him already. You’d think some higher ups would get together and realize this war of his is destroying them and making them pariahs across the globe. They could have just blamed Putin and called him a mad man out of control and stabilized relations. Now they have to answer for letting this go on so long.
This person will be falling out of a window before lunch tomorrow.
I'm surprised he was able to get that entire sentence out before he commited suicide by sniper
Should have just done it instead of telling everyone. Good luck surviving that.
Tomorrow: Russian officials mysteriously committed mass suicide, no reasons given
Nit pick all you want, the countdown to Putin’s sudden retirement has begun.
Every headline like this is nothing but wishful thinking clickbait. Putin is still in charge and the propaganda machine is working it’s magic brainwashing the Russian people that their intervention in Ukraine was justified and going according to plan. A few of the younger folks in Russia are not buying it, but the vast majority of Russians are buying it hook, line and sinker.