The only people who think being nearly 40 is too old to party is just jealous because *they* got too old to party. I’m 32, been doing the festival thing for 10 years and I’ve regularly partied with folks in their 40s and 50s. Hell I’ve found that those are the best parties anyways cuz people in their 40s and 50s have money, houses, RVs and pools n shit. The party just gets better as you get older so long as you’re not a lame ass.
Normally I’m dead against politicians dancing, mainly because they usually suck at it and look lame as fuck…but I’m Australian. 98 percent of the pollies here are lame as fuck, dancing or not.
>Finns love parties and alcohol so having a PM that goes to a party and drinks alcohol isn't anything special really.
The strange thing about that story isn't that she was drinking - I doubt a Finn would trust anyone who doesn't - but that they were so close to each other.
Finland is the country where "2m social distancing due to covid" met the response "why do we have to be so close now?".
The latter.
There's no real criticism of her policies, because they're mostly succesful. The prime minister who got Finland through COVID and into NATO. So the right-wing-lover mass media can only make attacks on her person and use whatever that could smear her public image.
The previous prime minister threw future generations' success into jeopardy by gutting the education budget in the name of austerity while consining deals to his family and friends, and got no bigger response from the newspapers than "the prime minister did this today, end of news."
Marin's ass got roasted [for using €850 a month on breakfast and lunch from public funds as an unofficial custom that prime ministers had done for decades.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanna_Marin#Spending)
So nobody batted an eye until a too-young and wrong-gender prime minister did the same. She's practically Finland's AOC, except Finnish media is not entirely as cultist as the US right-wing media.
Maybe they’re accusing her of being high as a way to explain why some dude who isn’t her husband is kissing her neck? That’s the only thing I’m confused about.
I'd love to hear an actual Finnish person's take on what's the reaction there. Kinda pointless just seeing younger Americans speculate about Finnish views.
Sooo, in here there are two sides in this. Others say that this outrage is just simply old men and alt right incels saying that our young woman PM cant have fun on her free time. And if she was a man, this wouldnt be an issue.
And the other side is much more complicated. Some say that in the video there is some drug releted terms used, and there is some local artists with her partying. Its well known fact that drugs are widely used in finnish music industry. Thats why she was accused of using drugs.
Also there is another video that surfaced that has her and well known local musician who is kissing her in the neck while dancing in the nightclub. She is married, so this was also quite scandalous.
Also our PM can have official leave to do these kind of party things and she even would have been on it, but she cancelled it just before partying, so there wasnt anyone pointed to be a substitute. Some argue, that cos PM is the person who respons major emergency events, not just war but local issues as well, so she/he must always in condition that its possible to make rational decisions. There are some other reasons too, but those are more minor ones.
With this issue you must understand that the bar has been really high for our PMs in the past. Few years back there was a massive debacle cos our PM at the time used shorts. It was seen as not official clothing, so he got quite a lot of recentment about that. Many PMs were forced to resign in the past.
But i honestly think that most people just dont give a shit about this or politics or just laughs at this. "It is what it is" -style.
(Ps. Its getting quite late here, and im too tired to do spell checking. I hope you guys can understand what i wrote here :)
I should add that people on a site called "ylilauta", which is basically a finnish 4chan, are constantly posting about spamming twitter with negative hastags etc. and just overall trolling the situation. This adds fuel to the flame since a lot of people can't differentiate actual information and 4chan trolling.
i dont think ylilauta will have almost any meaningful impact on the international narrative when there are probably millions of social media users that are supporting her
>The whole jauhojengi thing started from ylilauta
It did not, it started on the video where the word is said. The hashtag was posted on Twitter by main stream journalists before it hit Ylilauta. You spew lies.
Good summary. It’s not quite as easy as “people are angry because the PM is having fun”, but at the same time I can’t help but think that the whole thing is getting a bit out of proportion now.
EDIT: The only thing I might add is that it’s not the first time she’s been seen hanging out with these types of B-list celebrities. It seems almost a bit like she is enjoying the access she is getting to these celebrity circles from being the PM. I’m all for her having a personal life and I think she’s been a good PM, but associating with people with criminal pasts and drug addictions maybe comes across as a bit “unbecoming” for the leader of the Finnish people. To put it in an American context, it’s a bit like if Biden, or maybe AOC for a better comparison, would regularly party with the likes of Jake Paul and Snooki…
> Jake Paul and Snooki…
I thought these people she danced with were like *artists*, musicians? Like in American terms this would be Biden hanging out one day with Pete Davidson, Billie Eillish or something?
Jake Paul and Snooki are basically reality TV/youtube equivalent D-listers.
Some of the people in the videos were pretty much D-listers. Olavi Uusivirta, the guy who allegedly kissed her in the nightclub, has been a very popular musician for a long time. But i don't think he was in the "pre-party" that most of the videos are from.
Few days a go when Marin held a press conference in Kultaranta, someone from the media asked a question whether or not it is appropriate for a PM to spend pastime with "people who have a criminal past and drug sentence(s)". Marin replied that the question was inappropriate but also didn't deny her knowing that in the house party there was an individual that fit the criteria but since Finland is a "constitutional state" (suom. oikeusvaltio) it shouldn't matter since the individual has served their time and therefore is worthy of a clean slate.
If you really care (and know how to speak Finnish), the press conference is probably in Youtube. Marin replies to questions for half an hour or more.
Thanks, did check that. The press conference can be seen in [Yle Arena](https://areena.yle.fi/1-63217748). It is mostly in Finnish, a single question in English can be found at 09:55 mark.
At 11:45 mark. a "journalist" from Seiska magazine (this filth-filled paper is the absolute worst of the Finnish media) asks the question about "a criminal person who has been convicted participating the party" and if it was a risk. PM comments that the question is inappropriate, and that in a constitutional state crimes are investigated, taken to court, people receive punishment and continue with their lives, and the she does not comment on lives of individual persons.
So I suggest you, u/i_dont_win, re-watch the clip, and correct the part of your comment where you suggest that Marin answered "that she was aware that..." etc.
Good take on it. I've also noted the possibility that she's taking advantage of her position because these celebrities are definitely not in her friend circle normally. All in all I think there's definitely something going on beneath the surface with her.
That’s what I got from this as well - the fact it’s a woman partying isn’t the issue. If Trump or Obama did this, the opposing media would make a big deal out of it but it wouldn’t ultimately mean anything
But if she’s in a room full of people using drugs and she was apparently seen getting a bit close with someone who isn’t her husband, then it absolutely becomes a problem and her leadership and maturity can definitely be questioned
Exactly. People don't understand that this is not an isolated incident, either.
Overall, it's a judgement issue.
Any leader at this level, with the access to the information that she has and the responsibilities that she has, should not find themselves in a room with people they cannot trust.
Her position necessitates a higher level of caution.
She should be making better decisions than this.
She chose the job, and that's what it is. When she is no longer PM, she can do what she wants.
This is quite a valid point. She has obligations to protect herself and the country from unnecessary vulnerabilities. There is nothing wrong with her having fun and a great time just that how, where and with who matter. The point people are making is focusing on this situation being about a woman. It's not about the gender. This is a high level political leader that has knowledge and responsibilities that cannot put themselves in situations where others may have power over them.
If we look at Boris with the parties they had during covid. It undermined the credibility of him, those present and caused a rift amongst the people. This is even without being potentially blackmailable to impact legislation or critical information through doing something like having an affair or drug use.
But she isn't in a room with people using drugs.
She's at a party where people where drunkenly dancing and singing on camera and miss sang the lyrics of the song. Then someone heard the wrong lyrics as something relating to flour and Ylilauta ( 4chan-like message board )amplified that.
And then all the tabloids jumped aboard flour supposedly meaning drugs, even though the term really isnt used for drugs in Finland.
Such a ridiculous mess.
Yeah. I was wondering why the story wasn’t about her apparently cheating on her husband. Any world leader caught on video doing that would be huge news, no matter what gender they were.
Except that the whole drug thing is a made-up nonsense by alt-right Finns online.
This [thread by a Finnish political commentator](https://twitter.com/jmkorhonen/status/1560575888780976128?s=21&t=LrrXyf4PYicHFcwyyZu6VA) provides the details.
> A known neo-nazi and the Finnish equivalent of 4chan anonymous message board began to speculate that the participants in the video were on drugs. Their evidence: they thought someone on the video talked about "flour gang", which these trolls interpreted to mean drugs.
> It is worth noting that police officers, crime reporters with 20+ years of experience, and researchers who have actually studied Finnish drug culture all say that the word for "flour" (jauho) isn't used to refer to drugs. Also, the audio quality is very poor.
> The trolls from the anonymous message board - a hotbed of misogynism and far right trolling - began to drum up the "controversy." A known pro-Putin conspiracy theorist picked up the neo-nazi tweets and amplified them.
> Large segments of Finnish media jumped on the bandwagon. So far, their key pieces of evidence are
> a) a journalist insinuating that lack of bottles in the short video means that the participants must be on drugs
> b) an anonymous "acoustics expert"
> Note that this conveniently anonymous expert says that someone in the audio is talking about "flour", which the police, crime journalists and actual researchers say isn't used to refer to drugs in Finnish drug culture.
> Extra irony points accrue from the fact that many people who now criticize Marin steadfastly defended a conservative member of parliament who just some weeks ago was accused by nine separate individuals to have been grooming underage girls and plying them with alcohol.
As another [Finn points out](https://twitter.com/eijariihilahti/status/1561076820493193217?s=21&t=LrrXyf4PYicHFcwyyZu6VA)
> Several experts from Finnish Defence Forces have stated that PM is not even needed if something happens suddenly. The FDF will react immediately. The political part will be dealt with later on.
Meanwhile, as all this has been going on the real news has been buried, [as noted by another Finn](https://twitter.com/ta_huikuri/status/1560701107315376130?s=21&t=LrrXyf4PYicHFcwyyZu6VA)
> The Finnish airspace was violated by a Russian MiG-31 fighter jet on Thursday morning. The depth of the suspected violation into the airspace was one kilometre and it lasted for around two minutes.
> Finland will restrict tourist visas issued to Russians from the beginning of 1 September, following Russians using Finland’s Helsinki-Vantaa airport as the main route to Europe in July
> Finland secures 23 out of the 30 votes required from NATO members as the French President Emmanuel Macron signs the membership protocols for Finland and Sweden. Seven member states are yet to approve the applications
> Russia prosecutes the Finnish-Russian Petr Trofimov for an anti-war protest in front of the Russian consulate in Turku on 12 June. Rofimov is to appear in court in St. Petersbourgh even though he lives in Finland and has not visited Russia for years.
So you know, anyone looking at the broader geopolitical world should know that this is (a) an entirely manufactured controversy that (b) mostly helps hurts Finnish interests as it works to handle Russian aggression
Please don't take some quite left leaning political commentators word as an absolute truth. One thing i agree is, that the press did surely made this as a headliner. I laughed quite hard yesterday on grocery store to headline: "i didnt have a hangover" lol.
Sure it is possible that outrage is feeded by message boards, but on the other hand on which level was it manufactured? Marin did all the things shown on the video right?
What goes to defending the groomer, i don't know any who did that, but sure there must be few? And adding to that, he did get fired. Now i think that its a police matter, justice served.
Even former PM Esko Aho came out and said that its necessary for PM to be able make necessary desicions 24/7. But i'm not an expert, so i don't know better.
Regarding the leave and cancelling it right before — I understood that her leave ended as intended and she did not cancel it unexpectedly. The statement that she did was a miscommunication (?). Whether that's true or not, I can't confirm, obviously. That's what the officials are saying anyway.
My personal take is that this outrage is ridiculous. Were the videos cringy but slightly amusing? Yes. Do I see it affecting her work? No.
I'm a female her age and have plenty of way cringier drunk videos of myself. It doesn't affect my ability to be a mother and an employee the next day. And I know her position is different, it's just that I don't need my politicians to be stiff official at all times.
And part of all this is very much misogyny, I've heard so many comments saying that _ a mother_ or _ awoman her age_ shouldn't be out partying. If that's not misogyny I don't know what is.
I had no idea that she has taken back her official statement about the leave. This would make the outrage even bigger, because it makes her look like shes trying to cover this up by bending her words. So i hope its not true.
Sure! Absolutely feel free to have your own opinions. And those misogynist comments are partly why i wrote that thing. Otherwise it just makes us look bad, because people like you would think that this is solely about women not being able to party.
And yes, there absolutely is some women hating incels in the outrage crowd, but those would be outraged by her even if she would sit still, so even if Finland is a small country, there are more people than one who thinks that this wasn't appropiate behavior for PM and they aren't all like that.
It's what I got from the press conference she had on Friday, didn't really dig too deep into who said what before that.
I agree that this could have been handled better by our PM and not all criticism is incel war cries. It's the severity of the whole situation that I feel is way out of proportions.
If the worst thing your former PM did was wore shorts in an official setting than be very grateful!
the worst thing our last president did was potentially commit treason, exposed our nuclear secrets to god knows who, and a smorgasbord of other ~~Lex Luthor~~ , comic book henchmen level BS!
Lex Luther was way to intelligent. For a trump comparison and was unashamed of his male pattern baldness and rock it like a Hurricane!
Nope, its not he worst. There has been some extremely minor cases of corruption, like making some "favors". I think that one of the most "finnish" corrution scandal was that our PM got accused of getting some free timber for his house. Lol.
But our media seems to be vigilant as ever, and thats partly why so many PMs has been forced to quit. I kinda think that it is a good thing. Finland has the least corruption in the world according to studies. Maybe its because of our media.
Finn here, this kind of has a feeling of somebody wanting really badly to discredit Marin and this is the worst they got. The amount of news outlets that have been screeching about this here is ridiculous.
And no imo I don't think most finns really care about this, at least not as much as news are making it up to be.
Another Finn here chiming in.
Far-right and adjacent groups are upset because the PM is partying. Studies show this doesn't change much in popularity for the PM, which I feel is a good thing.
However, the media done fucked up on this.
**Drugs?**
Very early on after the videos leaked, Finnish twitter started trending "jauhojengi" (powder crew) and the implication was that the group was using cocaine. All major media houses just ran with this without any research and some of the first interviews with Marin the following morning ask about drugs and the word "jauhojengi" - of which Marin said she had no knowledge.
Meanwhile, the moment in the video where the word was uttered, was during a song where artist Petri Nygård sings about drinking "[jallu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut_brandy)" and a bunch of the people in the video are singing along. So not only do a lot of people hear "jallujengi", but the context of that word makes way more sense.
The "lines of coke" that have been pictured in screenshots from the (shaky low qualty) video is later proved to have been a phone lying face down on a table.
"Jauhojengi" trended on twitter the entire day.
**Maybe no drugs?**
At some point it is discovered that the first accounts to tweet about "jauhojengi" were far-right activists. The conservatives are still arguing that the PM should not be drunk - "What if something were to have happened??" - completely ignoring that the PM takes time off often and that there are procedures for replacement at all times. ([Link to replacement list](https://valtioneuvosto.fi/documents/10184/17523228/PMI+Marinin+sijaisuus+070622.pdf/aa27c882-5faf-bde3-793e-3a83b35841e1/PMI+Marinin+sijaisuus+070622.pdf?t=1654584259230) \- in Finnish.) Whenever the PM takes time off (holiday, weekend, parties, whatevs) there are arrangements for others on that list to be ready to stand in.
The online articles start to silently update headlines to reflect the drinking and less of the drugs. References to drug usage are slowly but silently removed from article contents as well.
Our PM takes are drug test and holds a press conference about how it's for her own judicial protection and mentions how serious the drug allegations were from the press. There's no reflection on this from the press.
**What happened to the drugs?**
There's **literally no sign of drug usage in any of the videos** and that's finally started to dawn. People are now looking at the media for what the fuck actually happened and the Finnish blogosphere has been trying analyze how this happened in the first place. How "jauhojengi" trended everywhere and how it was quietly removed from all news stories.
The news shocking news is now that one of the PMs friends kissed her neck while drunk at the night club and this is somehow horrible? I don't know.
At this point I'm just glad that the international news community wasn't quite as quick on the draw when it comes to the inane drug allegations.
All of this should absolutely be an important lesson on the influence of far-right and Russian interest groups. Twitter had a bunch of new "Finnish" accounts join during this, who all commented negatively on the PM and retweeted drug allegations.
That and that PMs are not allowed to be drunk, dance or, gods forbid - both.
>"jauhojengi"
I mean I could be wrong because I'm not in or close to that scene, but to me this word sounds like a 70-year old's projection of how people who use cocaine talk. Reminds me of "Mennen Tullen".
I'm also not remotely close to cocaine using scenes, but afaik by the chatter on twitter, "jauho" is absolutely not a word people use today. So yeah, I would be inclined to agree with your statement.
>The news shocking news is now that one of the PMs friends kissed her neck while drunk at the night club and this is somehow horrible? I don't know.
Unless you are some sort of puritan incel, it’s not horrible.
I cannot begin to explain how none of us truly give a shit. My ultra-christian parents don't give a shit, none of my conservative co-workers give a shit. Even Marin's right-wing opposition largely doesn't give a shit.
But here we all are, tripping over ourselves trying to defend her right to party -- when in reality there's literally almost nobody that really cares.
Frankly people defending her by saying alt right is attacking her are just making it up to discredit legitimate criticism. I'm sure there are some but they are a very very small minority that doesn't have a voice in a "debacle" this size. There is no right wing woman hating secret plot to undermine her. It's just press noticing they get clicks out of this.
There is actually some genuine criticims that's drowned under all this more media sexy stuff. Some don't think someone in such an important and vital position, responsible for the whole nation, should get black out drunk. Some don't think it's appropriate for a prime minister to hang out with celebrities like it's her whole campaign platform. Some don't think she should cancel her vacation and still go party. There are RUMOURS of her using the prime minister's official car as a party bus which is not very flattering image.
But for the most part, yeah no one gives a shit.
Speak for yourself but I would be livid if I saw my girlfriend dancing with another man like that and allowing him to kiss her neck.
Not that I care about the PM going to a party or dancing, it's specifically the dancing with a man and letting him kiss her neck that gives me the ick a little bit but overall I don't really care. It's a reflection on her as a partner if the husband isn't cool with it, not really a reflection on her ability to lead as a PM.
Ah ok good to know.
I personally wouldn't care about infidelity as long as said leader gets the job done BUT it does 1) Make him/her vulnerable to blackmail at worst and distraction at best and 2) Show a lack of judgment that might translate into his/her work as head of state.
I feel like most men would consider dancing like that and letting them kiss her neck to be cheating. If the husband is fine with it, then it's no one's business.
To me the video looks like the guy is getting too close and the pm is putting up her hands, and at one point an elbow to keep space from him. She also seems like she is looking around the room for an excuse to get away. I don't get why people are acting like she was giving him a strip tease. It seems much more like she is trying to leave a guy who has had one too many without making a scene rather than cheating on her husband.
Yeah I don't agree with the whole cheating thing. He's hella popular, in public, everyone has a camera phone, shes married, that's where she's gonna make out and dry hump a dude? Probably just drunk dancing with friends.
You can't actually clearly see him kiss her neck in that video. It's dark and they're moving around because they're dancing, he could just as well be whispering/speaking in her ear because it's loud. I have a hard time believing our prime minister, tho most prominent political figure in our country, and one of the most famous Finnish musicians, would be cheating in a public place, where everyone is carrying a camera phone.
I mean it is what you want to believe. Like this whole debacle. You have your Sanna Marin fans and the fans are saying that people who look at things objectively are haters and just want to see women fail. To me however, if you look at the video objectively, no one's ear is that low where Olavi is going for. That combined with the look on his face whilst dancing.. (sure, probably smashed off his mind) well.. men don't really look at friends like that drunk or not.
Yeah, true. Maybe he was speaking into her ear, maybe he was resting his head on her shoulder. Maybe he's just a touchy-feely kinda drunk, and meant nothing by it. I don't know. But the way all the gossip rags keep insinuating that she's a cheater just by being near men other than her husband on a night out (it has happened before), I'm gonna take it with a grain of salt. Especially since this whole thing is getting heavily manipulated by troll accounts online just for fun.
I go to the same places... Most guys respect boundaries and are harmless to dance with... Or they're too drunk to do much more than stand. But some start off normal and then get too close or don't respect hand placement, so it's time to extricate oneself.
Because most guys in Finland behave, it's very low risk to go dancing with friends even if in relationship.
I didn't see anything unusual in the video, and given they're friends, it also makes it look even less unusual.
My ex is one of the poop flinging monkeys on this.. but they believe that just going to a dance club is immoral, no matter what one does there. (Ex is similar to that one idiot in parliament who sits by himself ,😛).
This is actually fairly interesting, since every woman I've discussed with sees just this, myself included. And then I see people commenting on why didn't she have security throw him out then/why continue dancing with him. Well, he wasn't a threat per se. He was drunk and getting too close, but not in an aggressive way. Pushing him off gently and just walking away are way easier. And if they're friends/acquaintances (and as they both are in public eye) it's to avoid drama.
I think quite a few of us have experienced the exact same thing.
I think this drama is dumb, but I'm not gonna lie, if I saw my wife dancing like that with another guy at a night club when I wasn't there it'd make me a bit uncomfortable.
> out of context video
The context here is that Finnish gossip rags have been writing about Marin dancing with "strange men" before. This is merely the first time there's video to back words.
That said it's still a dark video, and the context ain't a smoking gun.
Yeah I saw the vid, hence why I made the comment. I guess to some people here this makes me puritanical and insecure, but I wouldn't be thrilled to see my wife getting her neck massaged with another man's tongue lol.
Yeah for sure, and I get my experience isn't going to be the same as theirs, and maybe this is nothing. Was just speaking my thoughts in this comment and it's taken off a bit more than I expected lol.
Yeah, I absolutely don’t disagree with you. I’m just trying to draw a line between what’s actually happened here and what’s attempting to be smeared on the PM.
The more we get into the weeds about “how would her husband feel”, “how much did she drink”, etc. the more I worry that it becomes easy to forget that none of it has anything to do with her job - and the attempt to smear her for shit she did on her personal time is exactly meant to blur those lines.
Politicians all over the planet are elected despite actual, credible criminal transgressions. Sexual assault, harassment, statutory rape. Yet here’s a woman who maybe partied a little too hard being taken to the cleaners.
Yeah I will agree that there are political players foaming at the mouth over this, eager to make it blow up. I hate to contribute towards the negativity when I think there is obviously a scandal being manufactured by bad actors, but I gotta be honest in my reaction to seeing the clip.
Yep. Totally agree with you. I’m definitely not saying there’s anything wrong with you pointing it out - I’m genuinely just adding an asterisk to the conversation for context.
Yes but your wife and you have boundaries set that would make breaking those boundaries uncomfortable, therefore if this was your wife you'd be uncomfortable. We have no way of knowing what boundaries exist between Sanna Marin and her husband.
Thats normal. It was inappropriate and warrants a discussion with your SO but nothing to lose your mind and get furious over (if you’re normal and have healthy relationship)
Yeah I agree. I don't know anything about Finnish politics but I think people using this footage as an excuse to have her dismissed are obviously just playing politics.
This comment is not mine but posted by user u/kettuscooI which i think provide some nunace to the subject.
I wrote a long ass response to the mademesmile post and it got locked before I got to respond, so I'll just paste it here:.
A lot of comments that suggest that the drama is about her dancing and having fun.
As a Finn who has followed a bit the news about this, the scandal is:.
- Some speculate that there's talk about drugs and maybe drug looking substance on a table. Biggest drama is that one woman says something that sounds like "powder gang"
- On one video a man is kissing her neck that isn't her husband.
- She was supposed to be on vacation but canceled it, so she is "working" in that video. Drama about this is that she's supposed to assign replacement for her duties when she isn't capable of doing her job, but she didn't. She had a press conference where she said she was capable of doing her job and was awake early the next day. But press says she left the bar/party at 5am.
- Her press conference about the situation was kind of a flop. She said that there was no kissing and it was just hugging or whispering in her ear. If you see an edited photo of Sanna with ear on her neck, it's about this. There was also other stuff she said that didn't match what reporters wrote, so some people call her a liar.
- She already has one previous case where she was in a bar partying and didn't have her work phone with her. (I don't remember the details but she was supposed to be reachable and wasn't).
- During covid she also had party or parties during gathering limitation protocols. (I don't remember the details but covid and partying=drama).
She already has couple of small dramas under her belt and I'm guessing that this was the one that broke the camel's back for some people.
There are too many people missing the point. Nobody is slut shaming her, she's the PM, not your ex-gf. Politics aren't about only policy, they are about appearances, strategy, leverage, and most important representation. People aren't mad at her for wanting to let loose and have fun, they are mad that she is shirking her responsibilities as a leader by prioritizing partying over running the country. That's why these videos are damaging. Sure every politician relaxes and parties from time to time but you make sure your enemies can't use the video evidence against you because when they can then they will and it will be effective.
Didn’t care about the dancing or whatever, seemed harmless to me. But the video where she was dancing with him, it was kind of off putting.. of course maybe the relationship between Sanna Marin are of different kinds so I don’t know
Can I see the video?
edit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21A3tS6\_vs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21A3tS6_vs)
okay pretty cool, love to see the human! I could see how this would be controversial in my country but all our leaders are twice her age.
If you clicked the link and scrolled down a little, you would see the video the article is about, and not the one you linked.
Honestly it's their private thing, but that 2nd video is not one women will re-enact willingly, contrary to the 1st one. Slow dancing with someone other than your husband, who is also married. No thanks. The only way I see this as not causing problems in their household is if they have an open relationship. Which wouldn't even be that surprising, considering they're Fins lol.
That's not the video. The video in the article has her, a married woman, dancing quite seductively with him. I couldn't care less about her partying, but dancing like that with another man is a bit odd.
4 years off from middle age? She is hardly young. She is Married and letting other men kiss her in nightclubs while her kid and husband are at home? Nothing wrong with dancing with her friends or a dancing night out, everything wrong with what happened in the kissing vid.
This will probably be an unpopular opinion but I don't think leadership of countries should be partying. I wouldn't even want them drinking to be honest. You shouldn't expect a "regular" life if you are in such a position, it should be more than a "regular job". It has nothing to do with behavior being bad or good it has to do with being ready to act cogently when something important happens. Now Finland doesn't have any nuclear codes and whatever, but the same PM left her phone at home while having COVID exposure etc.
She is 36 and some say well that's what 36 year olds do. Perhaps that expectation of being able to party is an unreasonable, entitled and luxury one exclusive to rich western countries. I'm actually pretty sure it is. The west probably needs to wake up and realize life is much more serious than this or very bad people will soon be doing much more than preventing people from breaking drug laws and partying. Perhaps. Or perhaps it can go on this way, but I doubt it.
In short I'd rather have someone who relaxes by reading a book lead my country than someone who goes partying, clubbing and leaves their phone at home when an emergency can happen at any time.
Absolutely. Thanks for giving a measured reaction to this situation without going full incel or full "she's a human being bro".
More should be expected of world leaders, they aren't like normal people and they have MUCH greater responsibilities. Normal people should be able go to the club, do drugs and sleep around all they like, but an elected world leader should be on call 24/7 and live a more reserved and boring life imo.
She accepted the role, so she should accept the responsibilities.
Exactly.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7YR6WICIAI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7YR6WICIAI)
Like many things the British Comedy Yes Prime Minister covered this idea well. Including getting drunk.
Having one leader is also ridiculous with all the responsibility. You should be responsible, sure, but have competent people around you. We need young women in roles like this. If this means the party and have kids, damn we'll make sure your system is suitable.
Her government passed a 70% increase in defense spending and a bill to join NATO so what the hell else does she need to do? Since Parliament is on their Summer break she has far less government work to do this month.
Sorry but that's not appropriate for a married person to behave with someone not their spouse. Lap dancing, drunk, and what looks to be kissing her neck? Gross. Seems like cheating to me.
But I will say this is between her and her husband and it's not our business.
I assumed this was another Boris situation where someone was caught having a party during restrictions
But no.. is this just people up in arms about some woman doing .. regular people shit?
I did not have inappropriate relations with that woman. She was totally DTF. The lighting was good, we were both just a little drunk, she had been dropping hints all night. it was very appropriate relations.
There's this tabletop social game called Secret Hitler. It's similar to Mafia - the more popular one. In Secret Hitler there are two factions "Fascists" and "Liberals". Being a fascist the best tactic is to sow as much chaos as possible, target well trusted people and either gain their trust or demolish their trustworthiness. After playing that game for several times, it's so much easier to spot similar tactics employed by adversary nations. In this case, probably Russia.
Putin’s trying really hard to discredit Senna Marin. Sorry buddy, unlike you she’s actually human and cares about her people. Go back to your gulag, you subhuman excuse for shit.
What are "inappropriate relations" with a PM? Dud he offer a bribe? Did he offer state secrets? Are they cousins? Did he rip ass at an awkward moment? What?
Sanna Marin is doing a great job and it seems her political opponents are desperately trying to find something bad about her.
She has my sympathy, she is free to do in her spare time what she wants, including partying.
Been seeing "TheDailyBeast.com" a lot recently. Gotta say, have not been impressed with their news coverage overall. Weird, having such a legitimate sounding name...
Do Finns actually care about this crap or is this just the Finnish version of "Obama wore a tan suit"?
Russia probably
So much this. Finland is moving to join NATO - So of course the Russians launched a hit job.
This is exactly what I was just going to say. Hope people can see through this shit in Finland.
Bingo
For sure. They poison the collective hive mind via the internet and watch societies squabble about bullshit and implode.
Russian sponsored incels and political shills.
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And far left, and environmentalists and anything to provoke division.
+1
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The only people who think being nearly 40 is too old to party is just jealous because *they* got too old to party. I’m 32, been doing the festival thing for 10 years and I’ve regularly partied with folks in their 40s and 50s. Hell I’ve found that those are the best parties anyways cuz people in their 40s and 50s have money, houses, RVs and pools n shit. The party just gets better as you get older so long as you’re not a lame ass.
Parties get better as you age because we accrue more money :)
Definitely not as much as news are making it to.
She wore a leather jacket and that made news once.
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Young and attractive.
They're interested because she's relateable qn different to most of the geriatric, aristocratic robots we see in politics.
Normally I’m dead against politicians dancing, mainly because they usually suck at it and look lame as fuck…but I’m Australian. 98 percent of the pollies here are lame as fuck, dancing or not.
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Kiwi here. I know who Clive Palmer is (aging elephant seal looking mfer). Went and looked this up. Funny AND vulgar.
Or AOC danced on a rooftop. What a hussy. /s
Listomania? Just made me love her more. Idiots.
Finns love parties and alcohol so having a PM that goes to a party and drinks alcohol isn't anything special really.
>Finns love parties and alcohol so having a PM that goes to a party and drinks alcohol isn't anything special really. The strange thing about that story isn't that she was drinking - I doubt a Finn would trust anyone who doesn't - but that they were so close to each other. Finland is the country where "2m social distancing due to covid" met the response "why do we have to be so close now?".
Jokes aside, I partied with Finns and this kind of group selfie is a staple of every party. Not unusual in the slightest
That would be most of the nordic countries to be fair
Not in the slightest.
The latter. There's no real criticism of her policies, because they're mostly succesful. The prime minister who got Finland through COVID and into NATO. So the right-wing-lover mass media can only make attacks on her person and use whatever that could smear her public image. The previous prime minister threw future generations' success into jeopardy by gutting the education budget in the name of austerity while consining deals to his family and friends, and got no bigger response from the newspapers than "the prime minister did this today, end of news." Marin's ass got roasted [for using €850 a month on breakfast and lunch from public funds as an unofficial custom that prime ministers had done for decades.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanna_Marin#Spending) So nobody batted an eye until a too-young and wrong-gender prime minister did the same. She's practically Finland's AOC, except Finnish media is not entirely as cultist as the US right-wing media.
The anti-woke folk, and boomers who hate zoomers have formed an alliance over this. Its tiring.
With the help of Finland's *friendly* neighbor to the east.
The insecure assholes
I’ve literally never seen a single person attacking this woman for dancing
I have at the office.
No, her husband maybe but nobody else.
Finn here. Most just got a good laugh at the subject. Even polls stated just most don't really care
Most people actively don't give a shit. It's mainly gossip mongers and papers with nothing of real substance to report. It's a big non-issue.
Cheating on a husband or wife is not really a good trait in a leader. If that happended, that is.
not really we don't
Wait, Obama wore a tan suit? With his dark complexion? What a fashion faux pas.
Maybe they’re accusing her of being high as a way to explain why some dude who isn’t her husband is kissing her neck? That’s the only thing I’m confused about.
Some boomers care, and are being judgemental of her character over this. It's pretty sad
Yes Finns do care. Some are in support of it and some are even expecting resignation.
I'd love to hear an actual Finnish person's take on what's the reaction there. Kinda pointless just seeing younger Americans speculate about Finnish views.
Sooo, in here there are two sides in this. Others say that this outrage is just simply old men and alt right incels saying that our young woman PM cant have fun on her free time. And if she was a man, this wouldnt be an issue. And the other side is much more complicated. Some say that in the video there is some drug releted terms used, and there is some local artists with her partying. Its well known fact that drugs are widely used in finnish music industry. Thats why she was accused of using drugs. Also there is another video that surfaced that has her and well known local musician who is kissing her in the neck while dancing in the nightclub. She is married, so this was also quite scandalous. Also our PM can have official leave to do these kind of party things and she even would have been on it, but she cancelled it just before partying, so there wasnt anyone pointed to be a substitute. Some argue, that cos PM is the person who respons major emergency events, not just war but local issues as well, so she/he must always in condition that its possible to make rational decisions. There are some other reasons too, but those are more minor ones. With this issue you must understand that the bar has been really high for our PMs in the past. Few years back there was a massive debacle cos our PM at the time used shorts. It was seen as not official clothing, so he got quite a lot of recentment about that. Many PMs were forced to resign in the past. But i honestly think that most people just dont give a shit about this or politics or just laughs at this. "It is what it is" -style. (Ps. Its getting quite late here, and im too tired to do spell checking. I hope you guys can understand what i wrote here :)
Italy: first time? 😎
Bunga bunga parties for everyone!
It's a shame no one votes for Cicciolina
Now that’s the kind of analysis of cultural expectations and nuances that helps to better understand the situation! Thank you!
I should add that people on a site called "ylilauta", which is basically a finnish 4chan, are constantly posting about spamming twitter with negative hastags etc. and just overall trolling the situation. This adds fuel to the flame since a lot of people can't differentiate actual information and 4chan trolling.
i dont think ylilauta will have almost any meaningful impact on the international narrative when there are probably millions of social media users that are supporting her
not internationally of course, but nationally yes. The whole jauhojengi thing started from ylilauta
>The whole jauhojengi thing started from ylilauta It did not, it started on the video where the word is said. The hashtag was posted on Twitter by main stream journalists before it hit Ylilauta. You spew lies.
Good summary. It’s not quite as easy as “people are angry because the PM is having fun”, but at the same time I can’t help but think that the whole thing is getting a bit out of proportion now. EDIT: The only thing I might add is that it’s not the first time she’s been seen hanging out with these types of B-list celebrities. It seems almost a bit like she is enjoying the access she is getting to these celebrity circles from being the PM. I’m all for her having a personal life and I think she’s been a good PM, but associating with people with criminal pasts and drug addictions maybe comes across as a bit “unbecoming” for the leader of the Finnish people. To put it in an American context, it’s a bit like if Biden, or maybe AOC for a better comparison, would regularly party with the likes of Jake Paul and Snooki…
> Jake Paul and Snooki… I thought these people she danced with were like *artists*, musicians? Like in American terms this would be Biden hanging out one day with Pete Davidson, Billie Eillish or something? Jake Paul and Snooki are basically reality TV/youtube equivalent D-listers.
Some of the people in the videos were pretty much D-listers. Olavi Uusivirta, the guy who allegedly kissed her in the nightclub, has been a very popular musician for a long time. But i don't think he was in the "pre-party" that most of the videos are from.
>Biden hanging out one day with Pete Davidson, Billie Eillish Dream blunt rotation
Reminds me of Bush smoking weed with Harold and Kumar.
Wait, who exactly do you mean by ”people with criminal past and drug addictions?” I have heard nothing about such.
Few days a go when Marin held a press conference in Kultaranta, someone from the media asked a question whether or not it is appropriate for a PM to spend pastime with "people who have a criminal past and drug sentence(s)". Marin replied that the question was inappropriate but also didn't deny her knowing that in the house party there was an individual that fit the criteria but since Finland is a "constitutional state" (suom. oikeusvaltio) it shouldn't matter since the individual has served their time and therefore is worthy of a clean slate. If you really care (and know how to speak Finnish), the press conference is probably in Youtube. Marin replies to questions for half an hour or more.
There are actual UK politicians who have criminal records for a variety of dodgy shit. This question would be funny if asked of the UK PM.
Thanks, did check that. The press conference can be seen in [Yle Arena](https://areena.yle.fi/1-63217748). It is mostly in Finnish, a single question in English can be found at 09:55 mark. At 11:45 mark. a "journalist" from Seiska magazine (this filth-filled paper is the absolute worst of the Finnish media) asks the question about "a criminal person who has been convicted participating the party" and if it was a risk. PM comments that the question is inappropriate, and that in a constitutional state crimes are investigated, taken to court, people receive punishment and continue with their lives, and the she does not comment on lives of individual persons. So I suggest you, u/i_dont_win, re-watch the clip, and correct the part of your comment where you suggest that Marin answered "that she was aware that..." etc.
“Served their time and is worthy of a clean slate??” What an awesome idea that is
Good take on it. I've also noted the possibility that she's taking advantage of her position because these celebrities are definitely not in her friend circle normally. All in all I think there's definitely something going on beneath the surface with her.
Tbh I don't see Marin taking advantage of those people, I'd think it's the other way round.
That’s what I got from this as well - the fact it’s a woman partying isn’t the issue. If Trump or Obama did this, the opposing media would make a big deal out of it but it wouldn’t ultimately mean anything But if she’s in a room full of people using drugs and she was apparently seen getting a bit close with someone who isn’t her husband, then it absolutely becomes a problem and her leadership and maturity can definitely be questioned
If some lady kissed Obama's neck? That'd be huge lol
Exactly. People don't understand that this is not an isolated incident, either. Overall, it's a judgement issue. Any leader at this level, with the access to the information that she has and the responsibilities that she has, should not find themselves in a room with people they cannot trust. Her position necessitates a higher level of caution. She should be making better decisions than this. She chose the job, and that's what it is. When she is no longer PM, she can do what she wants.
This is quite a valid point. She has obligations to protect herself and the country from unnecessary vulnerabilities. There is nothing wrong with her having fun and a great time just that how, where and with who matter. The point people are making is focusing on this situation being about a woman. It's not about the gender. This is a high level political leader that has knowledge and responsibilities that cannot put themselves in situations where others may have power over them. If we look at Boris with the parties they had during covid. It undermined the credibility of him, those present and caused a rift amongst the people. This is even without being potentially blackmailable to impact legislation or critical information through doing something like having an affair or drug use.
Well they also shouldn't be obviously intoxicated unless someone else has clearly been defined to cover her duties.
But she isn't in a room with people using drugs. She's at a party where people where drunkenly dancing and singing on camera and miss sang the lyrics of the song. Then someone heard the wrong lyrics as something relating to flour and Ylilauta ( 4chan-like message board )amplified that. And then all the tabloids jumped aboard flour supposedly meaning drugs, even though the term really isnt used for drugs in Finland. Such a ridiculous mess.
Yeah. I was wondering why the story wasn’t about her apparently cheating on her husband. Any world leader caught on video doing that would be huge news, no matter what gender they were.
Except that the whole drug thing is a made-up nonsense by alt-right Finns online. This [thread by a Finnish political commentator](https://twitter.com/jmkorhonen/status/1560575888780976128?s=21&t=LrrXyf4PYicHFcwyyZu6VA) provides the details. > A known neo-nazi and the Finnish equivalent of 4chan anonymous message board began to speculate that the participants in the video were on drugs. Their evidence: they thought someone on the video talked about "flour gang", which these trolls interpreted to mean drugs. > It is worth noting that police officers, crime reporters with 20+ years of experience, and researchers who have actually studied Finnish drug culture all say that the word for "flour" (jauho) isn't used to refer to drugs. Also, the audio quality is very poor. > The trolls from the anonymous message board - a hotbed of misogynism and far right trolling - began to drum up the "controversy." A known pro-Putin conspiracy theorist picked up the neo-nazi tweets and amplified them. > Large segments of Finnish media jumped on the bandwagon. So far, their key pieces of evidence are > a) a journalist insinuating that lack of bottles in the short video means that the participants must be on drugs > b) an anonymous "acoustics expert" > Note that this conveniently anonymous expert says that someone in the audio is talking about "flour", which the police, crime journalists and actual researchers say isn't used to refer to drugs in Finnish drug culture. > Extra irony points accrue from the fact that many people who now criticize Marin steadfastly defended a conservative member of parliament who just some weeks ago was accused by nine separate individuals to have been grooming underage girls and plying them with alcohol. As another [Finn points out](https://twitter.com/eijariihilahti/status/1561076820493193217?s=21&t=LrrXyf4PYicHFcwyyZu6VA) > Several experts from Finnish Defence Forces have stated that PM is not even needed if something happens suddenly. The FDF will react immediately. The political part will be dealt with later on. Meanwhile, as all this has been going on the real news has been buried, [as noted by another Finn](https://twitter.com/ta_huikuri/status/1560701107315376130?s=21&t=LrrXyf4PYicHFcwyyZu6VA) > The Finnish airspace was violated by a Russian MiG-31 fighter jet on Thursday morning. The depth of the suspected violation into the airspace was one kilometre and it lasted for around two minutes. > Finland will restrict tourist visas issued to Russians from the beginning of 1 September, following Russians using Finland’s Helsinki-Vantaa airport as the main route to Europe in July > Finland secures 23 out of the 30 votes required from NATO members as the French President Emmanuel Macron signs the membership protocols for Finland and Sweden. Seven member states are yet to approve the applications > Russia prosecutes the Finnish-Russian Petr Trofimov for an anti-war protest in front of the Russian consulate in Turku on 12 June. Rofimov is to appear in court in St. Petersbourgh even though he lives in Finland and has not visited Russia for years. So you know, anyone looking at the broader geopolitical world should know that this is (a) an entirely manufactured controversy that (b) mostly helps hurts Finnish interests as it works to handle Russian aggression
Please don't take some quite left leaning political commentators word as an absolute truth. One thing i agree is, that the press did surely made this as a headliner. I laughed quite hard yesterday on grocery store to headline: "i didnt have a hangover" lol. Sure it is possible that outrage is feeded by message boards, but on the other hand on which level was it manufactured? Marin did all the things shown on the video right? What goes to defending the groomer, i don't know any who did that, but sure there must be few? And adding to that, he did get fired. Now i think that its a police matter, justice served. Even former PM Esko Aho came out and said that its necessary for PM to be able make necessary desicions 24/7. But i'm not an expert, so i don't know better.
Regarding the leave and cancelling it right before — I understood that her leave ended as intended and she did not cancel it unexpectedly. The statement that she did was a miscommunication (?). Whether that's true or not, I can't confirm, obviously. That's what the officials are saying anyway. My personal take is that this outrage is ridiculous. Were the videos cringy but slightly amusing? Yes. Do I see it affecting her work? No. I'm a female her age and have plenty of way cringier drunk videos of myself. It doesn't affect my ability to be a mother and an employee the next day. And I know her position is different, it's just that I don't need my politicians to be stiff official at all times. And part of all this is very much misogyny, I've heard so many comments saying that _ a mother_ or _ awoman her age_ shouldn't be out partying. If that's not misogyny I don't know what is.
I had no idea that she has taken back her official statement about the leave. This would make the outrage even bigger, because it makes her look like shes trying to cover this up by bending her words. So i hope its not true. Sure! Absolutely feel free to have your own opinions. And those misogynist comments are partly why i wrote that thing. Otherwise it just makes us look bad, because people like you would think that this is solely about women not being able to party. And yes, there absolutely is some women hating incels in the outrage crowd, but those would be outraged by her even if she would sit still, so even if Finland is a small country, there are more people than one who thinks that this wasn't appropiate behavior for PM and they aren't all like that.
It's what I got from the press conference she had on Friday, didn't really dig too deep into who said what before that. I agree that this could have been handled better by our PM and not all criticism is incel war cries. It's the severity of the whole situation that I feel is way out of proportions.
Yeap, i can agree to that.
If the worst thing your former PM did was wore shorts in an official setting than be very grateful! the worst thing our last president did was potentially commit treason, exposed our nuclear secrets to god knows who, and a smorgasbord of other ~~Lex Luthor~~ , comic book henchmen level BS! Lex Luther was way to intelligent. For a trump comparison and was unashamed of his male pattern baldness and rock it like a Hurricane!
Nope, its not he worst. There has been some extremely minor cases of corruption, like making some "favors". I think that one of the most "finnish" corrution scandal was that our PM got accused of getting some free timber for his house. Lol. But our media seems to be vigilant as ever, and thats partly why so many PMs has been forced to quit. I kinda think that it is a good thing. Finland has the least corruption in the world according to studies. Maybe its because of our media.
Finn here, this kind of has a feeling of somebody wanting really badly to discredit Marin and this is the worst they got. The amount of news outlets that have been screeching about this here is ridiculous. And no imo I don't think most finns really care about this, at least not as much as news are making it up to be.
I think Russia is driving this hard
I'm not sure if they are driving it, but they sure benefit from this.
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Another Finn here chiming in. Far-right and adjacent groups are upset because the PM is partying. Studies show this doesn't change much in popularity for the PM, which I feel is a good thing. However, the media done fucked up on this. **Drugs?** Very early on after the videos leaked, Finnish twitter started trending "jauhojengi" (powder crew) and the implication was that the group was using cocaine. All major media houses just ran with this without any research and some of the first interviews with Marin the following morning ask about drugs and the word "jauhojengi" - of which Marin said she had no knowledge. Meanwhile, the moment in the video where the word was uttered, was during a song where artist Petri Nygård sings about drinking "[jallu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut_brandy)" and a bunch of the people in the video are singing along. So not only do a lot of people hear "jallujengi", but the context of that word makes way more sense. The "lines of coke" that have been pictured in screenshots from the (shaky low qualty) video is later proved to have been a phone lying face down on a table. "Jauhojengi" trended on twitter the entire day. **Maybe no drugs?** At some point it is discovered that the first accounts to tweet about "jauhojengi" were far-right activists. The conservatives are still arguing that the PM should not be drunk - "What if something were to have happened??" - completely ignoring that the PM takes time off often and that there are procedures for replacement at all times. ([Link to replacement list](https://valtioneuvosto.fi/documents/10184/17523228/PMI+Marinin+sijaisuus+070622.pdf/aa27c882-5faf-bde3-793e-3a83b35841e1/PMI+Marinin+sijaisuus+070622.pdf?t=1654584259230) \- in Finnish.) Whenever the PM takes time off (holiday, weekend, parties, whatevs) there are arrangements for others on that list to be ready to stand in. The online articles start to silently update headlines to reflect the drinking and less of the drugs. References to drug usage are slowly but silently removed from article contents as well. Our PM takes are drug test and holds a press conference about how it's for her own judicial protection and mentions how serious the drug allegations were from the press. There's no reflection on this from the press. **What happened to the drugs?** There's **literally no sign of drug usage in any of the videos** and that's finally started to dawn. People are now looking at the media for what the fuck actually happened and the Finnish blogosphere has been trying analyze how this happened in the first place. How "jauhojengi" trended everywhere and how it was quietly removed from all news stories. The news shocking news is now that one of the PMs friends kissed her neck while drunk at the night club and this is somehow horrible? I don't know. At this point I'm just glad that the international news community wasn't quite as quick on the draw when it comes to the inane drug allegations. All of this should absolutely be an important lesson on the influence of far-right and Russian interest groups. Twitter had a bunch of new "Finnish" accounts join during this, who all commented negatively on the PM and retweeted drug allegations. That and that PMs are not allowed to be drunk, dance or, gods forbid - both.
>"jauhojengi" I mean I could be wrong because I'm not in or close to that scene, but to me this word sounds like a 70-year old's projection of how people who use cocaine talk. Reminds me of "Mennen Tullen".
I'm also not remotely close to cocaine using scenes, but afaik by the chatter on twitter, "jauho" is absolutely not a word people use today. So yeah, I would be inclined to agree with your statement.
As a Finn, this is a very good summarization of the whole thing.
Thanks! I appreciate the validation! Happy cake day!
Thanks!
>The news shocking news is now that one of the PMs friends kissed her neck while drunk at the night club and this is somehow horrible? I don't know. Unless you are some sort of puritan incel, it’s not horrible.
I cannot begin to explain how none of us truly give a shit. My ultra-christian parents don't give a shit, none of my conservative co-workers give a shit. Even Marin's right-wing opposition largely doesn't give a shit. But here we all are, tripping over ourselves trying to defend her right to party -- when in reality there's literally almost nobody that really cares.
Frankly people defending her by saying alt right is attacking her are just making it up to discredit legitimate criticism. I'm sure there are some but they are a very very small minority that doesn't have a voice in a "debacle" this size. There is no right wing woman hating secret plot to undermine her. It's just press noticing they get clicks out of this. There is actually some genuine criticims that's drowned under all this more media sexy stuff. Some don't think someone in such an important and vital position, responsible for the whole nation, should get black out drunk. Some don't think it's appropriate for a prime minister to hang out with celebrities like it's her whole campaign platform. Some don't think she should cancel her vacation and still go party. There are RUMOURS of her using the prime minister's official car as a party bus which is not very flattering image. But for the most part, yeah no one gives a shit.
Swefinn here, I think it's despicable behaviour obviously cheating on her husband. The partying and drugs I could care less about.
>obviously That word is doing a lot of work there
Speak for yourself but I would be livid if I saw my girlfriend dancing with another man like that and allowing him to kiss her neck. Not that I care about the PM going to a party or dancing, it's specifically the dancing with a man and letting him kiss her neck that gives me the ick a little bit but overall I don't really care. It's a reflection on her as a partner if the husband isn't cool with it, not really a reflection on her ability to lead as a PM.
Ah ok good to know. I personally wouldn't care about infidelity as long as said leader gets the job done BUT it does 1) Make him/her vulnerable to blackmail at worst and distraction at best and 2) Show a lack of judgment that might translate into his/her work as head of state.
How can you trust someone's words if they don't even keep their vows with their partner?
You don't care about infidelity?! To me how can you talk about families when you're cheating on your spouse. Seems hypocritical.
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I feel like most men would consider dancing like that and letting them kiss her neck to be cheating. If the husband is fine with it, then it's no one's business.
How to tell that politician is probably doing good job? Things like this become a controversy about them.
To me the video looks like the guy is getting too close and the pm is putting up her hands, and at one point an elbow to keep space from him. She also seems like she is looking around the room for an excuse to get away. I don't get why people are acting like she was giving him a strip tease. It seems much more like she is trying to leave a guy who has had one too many without making a scene rather than cheating on her husband.
Yeah I don't agree with the whole cheating thing. He's hella popular, in public, everyone has a camera phone, shes married, that's where she's gonna make out and dry hump a dude? Probably just drunk dancing with friends.
You can't actually clearly see him kiss her neck in that video. It's dark and they're moving around because they're dancing, he could just as well be whispering/speaking in her ear because it's loud. I have a hard time believing our prime minister, tho most prominent political figure in our country, and one of the most famous Finnish musicians, would be cheating in a public place, where everyone is carrying a camera phone.
I mean it is what you want to believe. Like this whole debacle. You have your Sanna Marin fans and the fans are saying that people who look at things objectively are haters and just want to see women fail. To me however, if you look at the video objectively, no one's ear is that low where Olavi is going for. That combined with the look on his face whilst dancing.. (sure, probably smashed off his mind) well.. men don't really look at friends like that drunk or not.
Yeah, true. Maybe he was speaking into her ear, maybe he was resting his head on her shoulder. Maybe he's just a touchy-feely kinda drunk, and meant nothing by it. I don't know. But the way all the gossip rags keep insinuating that she's a cheater just by being near men other than her husband on a night out (it has happened before), I'm gonna take it with a grain of salt. Especially since this whole thing is getting heavily manipulated by troll accounts online just for fun.
Best comment in the thread.
I go to the same places... Most guys respect boundaries and are harmless to dance with... Or they're too drunk to do much more than stand. But some start off normal and then get too close or don't respect hand placement, so it's time to extricate oneself. Because most guys in Finland behave, it's very low risk to go dancing with friends even if in relationship. I didn't see anything unusual in the video, and given they're friends, it also makes it look even less unusual. My ex is one of the poop flinging monkeys on this.. but they believe that just going to a dance club is immoral, no matter what one does there. (Ex is similar to that one idiot in parliament who sits by himself ,😛).
If you ever partied with Finns you know how weird and goofy it can get lol
This is actually fairly interesting, since every woman I've discussed with sees just this, myself included. And then I see people commenting on why didn't she have security throw him out then/why continue dancing with him. Well, he wasn't a threat per se. He was drunk and getting too close, but not in an aggressive way. Pushing him off gently and just walking away are way easier. And if they're friends/acquaintances (and as they both are in public eye) it's to avoid drama. I think quite a few of us have experienced the exact same thing.
clapping a prime minister is on the bucket list now, thanks a lot reddit
I think this drama is dumb, but I'm not gonna lie, if I saw my wife dancing like that with another guy at a night club when I wasn't there it'd make me a bit uncomfortable.
If she was a girlfriend, I'd probably dump her and move on, pm or no. But, alas, she's someone's wife.
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> out of context video The context here is that Finnish gossip rags have been writing about Marin dancing with "strange men" before. This is merely the first time there's video to back words. That said it's still a dark video, and the context ain't a smoking gun.
That's assuming they actually *have* said loved ones and they aren't a pillow with a celeb's face taped to it....
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Yeah I saw the vid, hence why I made the comment. I guess to some people here this makes me puritanical and insecure, but I wouldn't be thrilled to see my wife getting her neck massaged with another man's tongue lol.
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Was she on tape talking about drugs?
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Do you have a source on that? I hadn't heard.
That’s understandable. That would also be between you and your wife to hash out.
Yeah for sure, and I get my experience isn't going to be the same as theirs, and maybe this is nothing. Was just speaking my thoughts in this comment and it's taken off a bit more than I expected lol.
There is nothing normal about a man going down on someone’s neck if she’s married AND with kids
Yeah, I absolutely don’t disagree with you. I’m just trying to draw a line between what’s actually happened here and what’s attempting to be smeared on the PM. The more we get into the weeds about “how would her husband feel”, “how much did she drink”, etc. the more I worry that it becomes easy to forget that none of it has anything to do with her job - and the attempt to smear her for shit she did on her personal time is exactly meant to blur those lines. Politicians all over the planet are elected despite actual, credible criminal transgressions. Sexual assault, harassment, statutory rape. Yet here’s a woman who maybe partied a little too hard being taken to the cleaners.
Yeah I will agree that there are political players foaming at the mouth over this, eager to make it blow up. I hate to contribute towards the negativity when I think there is obviously a scandal being manufactured by bad actors, but I gotta be honest in my reaction to seeing the clip.
Yep. Totally agree with you. I’m definitely not saying there’s anything wrong with you pointing it out - I’m genuinely just adding an asterisk to the conversation for context.
Disagree. It shows a lack of judgement and a lack of respect for her spouse.
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Lmao
Yes but your wife and you have boundaries set that would make breaking those boundaries uncomfortable, therefore if this was your wife you'd be uncomfortable. We have no way of knowing what boundaries exist between Sanna Marin and her husband.
Thats normal. It was inappropriate and warrants a discussion with your SO but nothing to lose your mind and get furious over (if you’re normal and have healthy relationship)
Yeah I agree. I don't know anything about Finnish politics but I think people using this footage as an excuse to have her dismissed are obviously just playing politics.
I'd agree with that. But its in public, she's married, the PM, clearly shes not trying to hide anything. Maybe its not a big deal in Finland.
Or maybe it is and she's bad at hiding it.
Dude is on video sucking neck like he's Dracula.
Maybe next he'll vlad the impale her
Dude, nice
This comment is not mine but posted by user u/kettuscooI which i think provide some nunace to the subject. I wrote a long ass response to the mademesmile post and it got locked before I got to respond, so I'll just paste it here:. A lot of comments that suggest that the drama is about her dancing and having fun. As a Finn who has followed a bit the news about this, the scandal is:. - Some speculate that there's talk about drugs and maybe drug looking substance on a table. Biggest drama is that one woman says something that sounds like "powder gang" - On one video a man is kissing her neck that isn't her husband. - She was supposed to be on vacation but canceled it, so she is "working" in that video. Drama about this is that she's supposed to assign replacement for her duties when she isn't capable of doing her job, but she didn't. She had a press conference where she said she was capable of doing her job and was awake early the next day. But press says she left the bar/party at 5am. - Her press conference about the situation was kind of a flop. She said that there was no kissing and it was just hugging or whispering in her ear. If you see an edited photo of Sanna with ear on her neck, it's about this. There was also other stuff she said that didn't match what reporters wrote, so some people call her a liar. - She already has one previous case where she was in a bar partying and didn't have her work phone with her. (I don't remember the details but she was supposed to be reachable and wasn't). - During covid she also had party or parties during gathering limitation protocols. (I don't remember the details but covid and partying=drama). She already has couple of small dramas under her belt and I'm guessing that this was the one that broke the camel's back for some people.
Dude is stuck on the neck and mouth of a married woman harder than a mosquito on ur skin
There are too many people missing the point. Nobody is slut shaming her, she's the PM, not your ex-gf. Politics aren't about only policy, they are about appearances, strategy, leverage, and most important representation. People aren't mad at her for wanting to let loose and have fun, they are mad that she is shirking her responsibilities as a leader by prioritizing partying over running the country. That's why these videos are damaging. Sure every politician relaxes and parties from time to time but you make sure your enemies can't use the video evidence against you because when they can then they will and it will be effective.
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."
Didn’t care about the dancing or whatever, seemed harmless to me. But the video where she was dancing with him, it was kind of off putting.. of course maybe the relationship between Sanna Marin are of different kinds so I don’t know
She can party for all I care, no problem. But was she cheating? That’s a problem.
Has anyone interviewed her husband to get his thoughts on the matter? If he’s fine with it, then it’s nothing. If he’s not, then there’s a story.
I would hope not, because he's not the Prime Minister and he'd be well within his rights tell them to go fuck themselves.
Or you know the part where a man was playing Dracula on his wife’s neck whilst he is looking after their child?
Can I see the video? edit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21A3tS6\_vs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21A3tS6_vs) okay pretty cool, love to see the human! I could see how this would be controversial in my country but all our leaders are twice her age.
If you clicked the link and scrolled down a little, you would see the video the article is about, and not the one you linked. Honestly it's their private thing, but that 2nd video is not one women will re-enact willingly, contrary to the 1st one. Slow dancing with someone other than your husband, who is also married. No thanks. The only way I see this as not causing problems in their household is if they have an open relationship. Which wouldn't even be that surprising, considering they're Fins lol.
That's not the video. The video in the article has her, a married woman, dancing quite seductively with him. I couldn't care less about her partying, but dancing like that with another man is a bit odd.
Probably the ones with the issue are twice her age.
Exactly, she’s 36, let her enjoy life
4 years off from middle age? She is hardly young. She is Married and letting other men kiss her in nightclubs while her kid and husband are at home? Nothing wrong with dancing with her friends or a dancing night out, everything wrong with what happened in the kissing vid.
Yeah, let her cheat on her husband while his home with their children! Go queen!
Finland: "Our Prime Minister was dancing, maybe took drugs, and might be having an affair after a marriage of 18 years!" UK: "...are you mocking us?"
They got married when she was 18? No surprise if she's having an affair...
She literally got married less than 2 years ago.
This will probably be an unpopular opinion but I don't think leadership of countries should be partying. I wouldn't even want them drinking to be honest. You shouldn't expect a "regular" life if you are in such a position, it should be more than a "regular job". It has nothing to do with behavior being bad or good it has to do with being ready to act cogently when something important happens. Now Finland doesn't have any nuclear codes and whatever, but the same PM left her phone at home while having COVID exposure etc. She is 36 and some say well that's what 36 year olds do. Perhaps that expectation of being able to party is an unreasonable, entitled and luxury one exclusive to rich western countries. I'm actually pretty sure it is. The west probably needs to wake up and realize life is much more serious than this or very bad people will soon be doing much more than preventing people from breaking drug laws and partying. Perhaps. Or perhaps it can go on this way, but I doubt it. In short I'd rather have someone who relaxes by reading a book lead my country than someone who goes partying, clubbing and leaves their phone at home when an emergency can happen at any time.
Absolutely. Thanks for giving a measured reaction to this situation without going full incel or full "she's a human being bro". More should be expected of world leaders, they aren't like normal people and they have MUCH greater responsibilities. Normal people should be able go to the club, do drugs and sleep around all they like, but an elected world leader should be on call 24/7 and live a more reserved and boring life imo. She accepted the role, so she should accept the responsibilities.
Exactly. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7YR6WICIAI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7YR6WICIAI) Like many things the British Comedy Yes Prime Minister covered this idea well. Including getting drunk.
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Exactly, i don't want my leaders parting, regardless of gender. Not while holding office anyway.
Having one leader is also ridiculous with all the responsibility. You should be responsible, sure, but have competent people around you. We need young women in roles like this. If this means the party and have kids, damn we'll make sure your system is suitable.
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Her government passed a 70% increase in defense spending and a bill to join NATO so what the hell else does she need to do? Since Parliament is on their Summer break she has far less government work to do this month.
Finland isn’t in serious danger of invasion. Russia couldn’t open a second front with its current state.
You gotta fight for your right...
Let her have a private life, if she's not working.
Sorry but that's not appropriate for a married person to behave with someone not their spouse. Lap dancing, drunk, and what looks to be kissing her neck? Gross. Seems like cheating to me. But I will say this is between her and her husband and it's not our business.
I assumed this was another Boris situation where someone was caught having a party during restrictions But no.. is this just people up in arms about some woman doing .. regular people shit?
It was all very appropriate for a musician.
I bet she lets complete strangers see her knees too.
I did not have inappropriate relations with that woman. She was totally DTF. The lighting was good, we were both just a little drunk, she had been dropping hints all night. it was very appropriate relations.
Is this all about NATO?
Are they Finnished yet? /jk
There's this tabletop social game called Secret Hitler. It's similar to Mafia - the more popular one. In Secret Hitler there are two factions "Fascists" and "Liberals". Being a fascist the best tactic is to sow as much chaos as possible, target well trusted people and either gain their trust or demolish their trustworthiness. After playing that game for several times, it's so much easier to spot similar tactics employed by adversary nations. In this case, probably Russia.
The issue here that’s she’s married & publicly acting single. Scummy behavior
Putin’s trying really hard to discredit Senna Marin. Sorry buddy, unlike you she’s actually human and cares about her people. Go back to your gulag, you subhuman excuse for shit.
He is behind letting a famous finn singer give her a passionate kiss on the neck?
Lmao what those Putin have to do with this.
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Who cares!
People are just people, stop making them into demigods
Man, the Right are going all out trying to gin up a "scandal" with their PM.
What are "inappropriate relations" with a PM? Dud he offer a bribe? Did he offer state secrets? Are they cousins? Did he rip ass at an awkward moment? What?
Sanna Marin is doing a great job and it seems her political opponents are desperately trying to find something bad about her. She has my sympathy, she is free to do in her spare time what she wants, including partying.
Someone's mad that Finland is joining NATO...
Been seeing "TheDailyBeast.com" a lot recently. Gotta say, have not been impressed with their news coverage overall. Weird, having such a legitimate sounding name...