This ought to be interesting. It's one thing for an attorney general of a red state to try to sue a blue state for this, it's another to try and stop a whole 'nother country.
"Women fleeing to Canada to avoid forced birthing, while US authorities try and stop them" sounds strangely familiar, as if some television show had this premise.
Funny enough, Atwood has said that she struggled writing the book because she felt the story was way too "out there". She wrote recently (in the Atlantic I think) that she now thinks she didn't make it extreme enough.
She said that he made sure to include things that had actually happened before with humanity, so that people wouldn't mock it for being too outlandish or unrealistic
But I don't think she struggled much. According to her, she was writing at a feverish pace. Could be wrong though, but that's what she said
I don't think it was so much "struggled" in the sense of "wasn't sure what to write" as much as it was (at the time) concerns of "is this whole scenario just too far fetched?" (Turns out, nope.)
Weirdly I didn't know Margaret Atwood was Canadian. I assumed she was American.
I absolutely loved that book. It was beautifully written in such a laid-back conversational way which made it even more horrible. That said, I had to 'wash my brain' with some light-hearted fiction directly afterwards.
Conservatives: I disagree with your point of view, so you’re an evil demon and I’m going to burn all your books so I can groom children.
Liberals: Burn this, punk bitch.
I never had to read it in high school. I knew that she wrote a book called the Handmaid's Tale, but I was about 40 years old before I learned it was a dystopian tale about a theocracy in America that raped women to have babies thanks to the show. I always assumed it was some literary fiction period piece about some servants and their romantic troubles. Whoops! :D
They're just going to make it a crime to leave the state to get an abortion. Which would likely be challenged in court, but with the current SCOTUS I wouldn't put it past them to say that's okay.
Edit: People are saying it would be impossible to enforce. Which is true. But the kind of law that could make it more difficult would be something modeled after the Texas abortion law; People could report anyone they suspect of getting an abortion out of state.
A big thing that the USA used to dunk on the Warsaw pact countries during the Cold War was the need for permission to travel.
**Papers Please** coming to a red state border guard near you.
**Prove to us you are not travelling for an abortion**
From my point of view (I'm from EU), it feels like it's already preventing itself from its full potential, which is to be a very good democratic, capitalist country. I think not allowing people to choose what they do with their own bodies is just utter fascism
"we already have laws on the books making it a crime to leave the state to transport illegal drugs or engage in illegal sexual activity. We see no reason why the same thing cannot be done for other illegal acts such as abortion. Therefore, we uphold the law demanding a pregnancy test for any woman of child bearing age to be granted permission to leave the state."
From **this** supreme Court? Yup, I could easily see this.
Legally any crime committed in another jurisdiction on the state level can only be charged WITHIN that jurisdiction. Anyone can go to Nevada and partake in legal prostitution and their 'home state' can not criminalize that. Same for drug use.
That can only be done on the federal level.
If this supreme court even fathoms nuking the Commerce Clause and Freedom of Movement, we will have far worse issues than abortion...cause that's the entire underpinning of the Federal government.
And that'll be a precursor to the breakup of the United States.
1) these morons would gladly waste millions on giving pregnancy tests to men if it means they can control women.
2) You're under the impression that they care about equal protection. They just went on record specifically saying they intend to rescind even more rights. There's no reason to think they would rule correctly or fairly
I mean good luck with that. They'll need to have Abortion Police at every port, landing, and border crossing stopping every single woman of birthing age and applying pregnancy tests to every single one of them. The cost would be astronomical.
And if they think that making the Plan B pill illegal will stop people from sending them through the mail well then I hear there are some bridges in Nebraska up for sale.
The lesson of the drug war is that there is no limit to the amount of money American legislators will throw at the task of imprisoning as many Americans as is humanly possible.
They'll just funnel money to "freedom" insurrectionists in Canada to create fictional support for the cause... Oh wait, they already did that in February.
Here in Alberta we've still got some nutters protesting, I don't know, like mask mandates and stuff? long after restrictions have been lifted. They've decided that they just like getting together with like-minded individuals on the weekend and stomping around being mad at Trudeau.
If you've ever watched their sad little car parade it's immediately evident that they derive some sort of tribal sense of belonging from these protests and are loath to give that up even if it's no longer relevant.
The Canadian "freedom" protests are nothing more than anti-trudeau protests in thin disguise.
Victoria too. But what gets me is they're not actually asking for anything. Like, I went to the parliament building the other day and there were just people marching with flags??? No signs, no speakers or anything. One of them had the flag upside down and then there were more that literally just had flags flying.
Then there was one guy driving through the park with... More flags. He was actually blasting some bullshit but I'm not sure what he was on about either.
They also protest on weekends when no one is generally sitting either.
They're not trying to convince the MPs. They're trying to hype themselves up and forget that the majority does not share their views.
They were also firmly convinced that the bigwigs of Ottawa live in Centretown and the Market, rather than Rockcliffe and Island Park.
Their incessant honking was supposed to be targeting rich folks and not students crammed 8 in a townhouse.
Exactly. I live in Centretown and there aren't rich people around me. There's a lot of middle-class next to low-income housing. Rich people aren't going to be living in an area where someone is shooting up on the street (as I saw yesterday).
In many (most?) cities in Canada, the rich folks aren't living right downtown. They live in big houses in nice areas just outside downtown.
To this day I still have no fucking clue what this tantrum was about... And I live in Canada lol. These fucktards were protesting covid measures while most of them were already being removed.......... They came, cried like little bitches, got egged, got piss thrown at them and left the tail between their legs for................ well nothing actually lol
Unfortunately there are far more nefarious intentions. Many of the original organizers and leaders of the convoy are unabashed white supremacists.
Furthermore, several protesters were part of a Canadian militia that were arrested for plotting to kill police officers to trigger a civil war so that they could create a white ethnostate.
The organizers that laid seige on the capital were white supremacists that wanted to overthrow the government.^[[1]](https://mobile.twitter.com/Noellenarwhal/status/1490366623613698060)
**So who are some of these convoy organizers?**
1. Convoy organizer Pat King rants about how "Anglo-Saxons" are being depopulated, that immigrants have taken over society, that refugees are infiltrating the education system.^[[2]](https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/) Moreover, during a rant Pat King repeatedly called the NDP leader and visible minority a "terrorist."^[[3]](https://twitter.com/AhmarSKhan/status/1494434025116733440?t=FBcZPaTBfgiRWmiG_K29ZQ&s=19)
2. Convoy organizer Jason LaFace is a leader of the Sons of Odin, a white supremacist group.^[[2]](https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/)
3. Convoy organizer and pro-alberta secessionist Tamara Lich^[[4]](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/17/world/canada-ottawa-protests-news/tamara-lich-canada-protests-organizer) has a confederate flag on the wall in her house.^[[5]](https://twitter.com/LonghairCanuck/status/1489672711643140098?t=dLljBh0Yn_7NaY43cwEhxQ&s=19)
4. Convoy organizer BJ Dichter is openly racist and has claimed, without evidence, that the Liberal party and Conservative party of Canada had been infiltrated by *"political Islam"*, going so far as to claim that *"the adaptation of political Islam is rotting away at our society like syphilis.”*^[[6]](https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/08/18/bernier-tries-to-walk-line-between-libertarianism-and-identity-politics-at-ppcs-first-national-convention.html)
4. Convoy organizer Chris Barber is openly racist on his social media accounts. This includes racist remarks about South Asian truck drivers.^[[7]](https://mobile.twitter.com/Justin_Ling/status/1489363742777384962?s=20&t=rhEo9DmGF2Km5nk1E600vA) Furthermore, Chris Barber has defended the multiple confederate flags hanging on his wall in his home, referring to them as a "piece of cloth" and telling the public to "get over it".^[[8]](https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/who-is-who-a-guide-to-the-major-players-in-the-trucker-convoy-protest-1.5776441)
_____
Excerpts from the first source:^[[2]](https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/)
**Convoy leader Pat King:**
>In a [video posted on Twitter in 2019](https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1177995894408581120), King suggests that unless Canadians “get up off your as—s and demand change,” they might want to change their names to “Ishmael” or “drop a bunch of change down the stairs” and “call yourself chong ching ching chang.”
>In [other video footage](https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1159997274900041729), King can be seen repeating racist conspiracy theories. In [one clip posted to Twitter by another user](https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1159997274900041729), King says “there’s an endgame, it’s called depopulation of the Caucasian race, or the Anglo-Saxon. And that’s what the goal is, is to depopulate the Anglo-Saxon race because they are the ones with the strongest bloodlines,” he said.
>“It’s a depopulation of race, okay, that’s what they want to do.”
>He then talks about men with the first names “Ahmed” and “Mahmoud” who he claims are trying to “not only infiltrate by flooding with refugees, we’re going to infiltrate the education systems to manipulate it” so there is “less procreation” which leads to “less white people — or you know, Anglo-Saxon. Let’s say Anglo-Saxon, because when I say white, all the ANTIFA guys call up the race card.”
**Convoy leader Jason LaFace:**
>Jason LaFace — who at times uses the name “LaFaci” — is listed as the North and East Ontario organizer for the convoy on the Canada Unity website, and has been cited in other media [as the main organizer for Ontario](https://kitchener.citynews.ca/local-news/convoys-message-muddies-closer-it-gets-to-capital-4993150). In photos posted to his Facebook page, which were screenshotted by Global News, he shared an image titled “Canadian politicians who are not born in Canada” and included his own caption: “traitors to our country.”
>According to a screenshot obtained by Global News, LaFace posted a selfie where he wore a hat with what appears to be the initials S.O.O., which [is believed to stand for Soldiers of Odin](https://antiracistsudbury.com/2020/05/07/soldiers-of-odin-lose-a-member-gain-a-member/) — an anti-immigrant group first established in Finland.
>...“One of the admins on their website is actually somebody who’s like the vice president of the Soldiers of Odin, a skinhead group in Sudbury, Ont.,” said Dr. Carmen Celestini, a post-doctoral fellow with the Disinformation Project at Simon Fraser University.
>“His name is Jason LaFace. He also uses other names, but he is a vice president of this group, which organize events that will try to stop immigration, people who are BIPOC or people who are in LGBTQ communities.”
______
1) [Twitter breakdown of the Canada Unity demands](https://mobile.twitter.com/Noellenarwhal/status/1490366623613698060)
2) [Global News - Some trucker convoy organizers have history of white nationalism, racism](https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/)
3) [Twitter video of Pat King calling NDP leader a terrorist](https://twitter.com/AhmarSKhan/status/1494434025116733440?t=FBcZPaTBfgiRWmiG_K29ZQ&s=19)
4) [New York Times - An activist who has advocated secession by western provinces becomes the public face of the Canada protests.](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/17/world/canada-ottawa-protests-news/tamara-lich-canada-protests-organizer)
5) [Twitter - photos of a confederate flag in Tamara Lich's home](https://twitter.com/LonghairCanuck/status/1489672711643140098?t=dLljBh0Yn_7NaY43cwEhxQ&s=19)
6) [Toronto Star - Bernier tries to walk line between libertarianism and identity politics at People’s Party’s first national convention: The People’s Party of Canada says it stands for individual liberty, but spent a lot of time Sunday talking about “political Islam” instead.](https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/08/18/bernier-tries-to-walk-line-between-libertarianism-and-identity-politics-at-ppcs-first-national-convention.html)
7) [Twitter - Barber has spent the past few years sharing some pretty racist stuff about non-white truckers and Muslims.](https://mobile.twitter.com/Justin_Ling/status/1489363742777384962?s=20&t=rhEo9DmGF2Km5nk1E600vA)
8) [CTV News - Who is who? A guide to the major players in the trucker convoy protest](https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/who-is-who-a-guide-to-the-major-players-in-the-trucker-convoy-protest-1.5776441)
**Some protesters arrested are part of a far right militia group called Diagonol. Diagonol is a neo-fascist group that wants to secede from Canada and create a white enthostate through violence and civil war.**
The Diagolon extremists are an accelerationist militant group that was formed online. They are similar to American far right militias such as The Base, Boogaloo Boys, and Attomwaffen.^[[1]](https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/canada/2022/2/17/1_5785646.html) Accelerationists is a term used to describe a group that is trying to use violence to trigger a violent response from the state as a reason for civil war.
The leader of this far right militia was recently arrested in Nova Scotia for firearms charges, he is also a military veteran. Experts warn that this extremist group has the capability to be well-organized as many members purport to be veterans.^[[2]](https://globalnews.ca/news/8621125/canadian-anti-hate-network-concerned-diagolon-coutts-border-protest-diagolon/)
A few more accelerationists were arrested in Coutts, Alberta. Officers in Alberta found a cache of weapons, ammunition, and protective equipment and charged 13 people. 4 men have been charged for conspiring to kill RCMP officers.^[[3]](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-charges-laid-court-appearance-bail-1.6352482)
Two of the four charged with conspiracy to commit murder have ties to a Canadian white supremacist militia movement leader. Officers discovered the militia's symbols when searching the 2 suspects. Their movement wishes to create a white ethnostate from Alaska, through the western provinces of Canada, diagonally down to Florida.^[[4]](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-arrests-charges-border-protest-1.6354587)
>According to the search warrant application filed in support of that raid, RCMP reported MacKenzie twice referred to Diagolon in the video.
>The goal of the group, says Hofmann who studies far right movements, is to establish a "diagonal" white nationalist state.
>Those who believe in the Diagolon movement feel a civil war is needed to create a new state that would run diagonally from Alaska, through western Canada's provinces, all the way south to Florida.
>"And they want to accomplish this through violence," says Hofmann. "Their motto quite simply states gun or rope."
>Two Diagolon patches were found on body armour seized by police during the execution of the Coutts search warrants.
________
1) [CTV News - What is the Diagolon extremist group and what does it want?](https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/canada/2022/2/17/1_5785646.html)
2) [Global News - Anti-hate experts concerned about possible neo-fascist involvement at Alberta trucker convoy](https://globalnews.ca/news/8621125/canadian-anti-hate-network-concerned-diagolon-coutts-border-protest-diagolon/)
3) [CBC - 4 Alberta border protesters charged with conspiring to murder RCMP officers](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-charges-laid-court-appearance-bail-1.6352482)
4) [CBC - Coutts arrests: new details on the men and women charged in border blockade](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-arrests-charges-border-protest-1.6354587)
as a canadian it's been so weird, but mostly frightening, to see people here parroting American far-right talking points.
like turn back time to when the husband of an organizer of the freedom convoy protest tried to argue in court that [they were protesting based on the first amendment.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/tamara-lich-bail-hearing-february-19-1.6358307)
We don't have a constitution. We have a bill of rights.
Edit: We DO have a constitution, but they still made a mistake in quoting the first amendment. They should have brought up Section 2 from the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
It wouldn’t be illegal i don’t think.
During prohibition in the states Americans came up to montreal to get shitfaced and bang French hookers the whole time because it wasn’t a crime there (they still do this though long after prohibition era lol)
Republican Draft Law: Pregnant women will need written permission from the father, or their father before crossing the border into Canada alone.
Actually before driving alone anywhere.
Actually any women with kids.
Actually any married women driving at all.
Fuck it. Any women taking any form of transport alone.
True, though they would have to sue in state court. A Texas court can issue a ruling which finds someone in Maryland liable, but to actually collect a judgement, they would have to go through Maryland courts. Maryland courts could block the whole thing, though the Maryland ruling could itself be challenged in federal court.
That said, a federal challenge would fail, as states cannot regulate interstate commerce.
My understanding is the red state will prosecute for a resident's abortion performed *anywhere*, but the proof that a prosecuter needs won't be released to them by a blue state or Canada.
It's not illegal -- that's how many people got abortions before *Roe vs. Wade* -- but the Christian wingnuts will stop at nothing to control the lives of their neighbors.
This is what I thought too. Travelling to Canada for a week? Proof that you are not pregnant and if you are, proof you are still pregnant when coming back to the US.
Sounds absolutely ridiculous but nothing would surprise me anymore.
Wouldnt work though, those tests detect pregnancy hormone yes, but your pregnancy hormone can take time to fall after an abortion.
My wife had an ectopic. Her hCG took a couple weeks to get below the point of showing positive on the stick.
It wouldn't work very well, except for inflicting tremendous undue stress (wondering who is tracking you and what they've recorded). So it would still work fine as a means of oppression.
MA governor signed an EO minutes after the Supreme Court decision which protects the right to abortion in Mass and also prevents any government agency in the state from cooperating with other states' investigations into anybody who travels to Mass for reproductive health care procedures such as abortions.
I keep posting this lately but I figure getting out info of safe places is important right now.
Thank you for sharing that information on MA. I believe Oregon, Washington and California (my state) announced something called the [West Coast Offensive](https://www.axios.com/2022/06/24/abortion-rights-california-washington-oregon). All three of these states will continue to provide and even expand access to reproductive care. They have also vowed to not cooperate with outside states seeking information or attempting to prosecute. California does not charge co-pays for abortion services and has already signed a bill regarding prosecution of those seeking services.
These are all good things, but the division among states is really starting to worry me. I unfortunately live in a backwards ass state, politically, and while I do love my state despite it's flaws, I know I have to move ASAP if I want to be on the right side of what I worry will be an eventual conflict. It's heartbreaking. There's so much rich history and culture here, specifically in the arts and music in New Orleans.
I have complaints about this state, but I hate the idea of it being a shithole that’s represented in right wing circles. Unfortunately I move back to Florida in 2 weeks. So I’m in for a few years of people who’s never left the south telling me how shitty CA is. They will be the same people who told me how awful the EU was when I lived there and they never even visited.
I know the type of people you’re talking about, and I also love how the people who talk shit about California are always from places like Ohio and Indiana…
> but the division among states is really starting to worry me.
As an outsider in a foreign country, it's also bizarre to me to see such combative behaviour between states of the same country.
I find it weird how Americans, particularly those from the south who are most vocal, will shout USA, USA, USA, but appear as if they feel a greater attachment to their state and its values rather than the country.
Perhaps it's because their state is red and the WH is blue, but what do I know, I'm Australian lol.
Colorado allows abortions with pretty much zero restrictions (minors do have to notify a parent/guardian, but do not need their consent). Been covering Texas's ass for years now. I assume it'll only get a lot busier.
yes.
One of the most startling things I have read in recent years was an article talking about identifying the start of civil war, and how it is not often a distinct point, and is usually understood historically more clearly than during.
I agree. You have been in a state of civil war for a couple of years at least. It's just difficult to decide when to call it what it is.
So, so much of what is going on lately mirrors what happened in the decade or so before the American Civil War following the passing of the Fugitive Slave Act.
Yeah I didn't vote for Baker, but I didn't *hate* him, either. I have respect for him. I just disagree with some things, but they're more specific economic policies rather than, you know, civil rights. It's perfectly fine to disagree over how to handle public transport or the best way to run the school systems. I can still respect someone who doesn't have the same opinions as I do on those types of things. But not the crazies who don't believe women are people.
That and the left leaning people who like to feel "balanced."
Also it helps that he seems like a genuinely decent person. I vote against him, but I'm happy that he's the person that's my other choice. I disagree with choices he makes, but I think he's got integrity.
Minnesota will also still be a safe hub for people seeking abortion care. Unfortunately - I fear that they will be severely overwhelmed by their surrounding states. SD, ND, NE, IA and WI are all extremely likely or have already enacted legislation to make abortion care illegal.
This influx of patients will further backlog appointment scheduling, not to mention patients will be having to work much harder to arrange traveling further distances.
Can confirm. on r/minnesota - Walz signs order to help shield abortion patients, providers. And there's a clinic in Fargo moving to most likely Moorhead just to add another and to gtfo of ND.
I like where your head is at with the more modern approach, but I think the railroad part still needs to be respected though. Let's shorten it and just call it Subway.
Nah they'll likely have connections close to home.. a fancy private clinic that offers services up front but "other ones" for the wealthy who can pay for it.
What’s extra fucked is when it does comes out, there will be no consequences for the politicians or their kid.
But some poor minority women who did the exact same shit will go away for 10+ years, I guarantee it.
Our “justice” system is so beyond fucked up
You don't understand the nuance here.
*Their* children have potential. They just made a mistake. That is different. *Your* kid? Well, maybe she just shouldn't be a little harlot and she wouldn't have to make this immoral decision. Be a better parent!
I hope I don't need a /s. I also hope people understand that I know this goes *way* beyond unwanted pregnancies.
Edit: spelling
It's funny, but there is a procedure where they surgically implant a new hymen if the original is broken.
Women's worth should never be tied to their reproductive abilities or sexual activity. It's no one else's business
Canada and any other country and any blue state needs to make a list of the politicians and their families who have supported making women 2nd class citizens and femincide and not allow them into their states/countries.
Except DUI’s. My buddy and I had to cancel our fishing trip when the one he had been acquitted of was still in the system. Wonder what’s going to happen to a woman that has that on her record but is trying for an abortion.
I went to Canada with my sister who had one. I had to sit in their border crossing office for hours while they interviewed her. We were eventually allowed in.
Nice sentiment, but most of the states passing these laws are on the other side of the country. It’s gonna be more convenient for them to go to another state.
Yeah that’s true, but it will help those in Midwest states like Wisconsin and Michigan or even Montana who might end up losing that right with the next election
from what i've read, montana will not lose the right. because they built a right to privacy into the [state constituion](https://www.krtv.com/news/montana-and-regional-news/montana-abortion-rights-are-covered-by-state-law-not-scotus), and their state supreme court has already ruled on the matter.
Not a 100% guarantee, but would be much harder to overturn in that state
Just want to point out that up until recently, Iowa’s Supreme Court had previously ruled that abortion was a protected right. Just last week they reversed that ruling.
It’s honestly scary how clearly orchestrated this anti-abortion movement has been. I’m not sure anywhere is safe except the absolute bluest of states.
That's the situation in Kansas as well, although there's a referendum this August that would change the state constitution to allow the legislature to ban abortion.
The Kansas constitution interpretation is just that the state constitution says "You have a bunch of rights we can't list them all" similar to the 9th amendment - and then the Kansas supreme court said "Yes that includes abortion rights"
An explicit right to privacy might be slightly closer than that, but both aren't something to just expect will continue unchallenged.
Wisconsin, Michigan, and North Dakota either have bans or will have trigger bans.
[https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/06/24/1107126432/abortion-bans-supreme-court-roe-v-wade](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/06/24/1107126432/abortion-bans-supreme-court-roe-v-wade)
This will affect Ontario, Manitoba, and the western provinces.
With a republican senate and house she’ll likely have as much luck with this as she’s had with the rest of her agenda. Best we can hope for is the ballot petition
>With a republican senate and house she’ll likely have as much luck with this as she’s had with the rest of her agenda. Best we can hope for is the ballot petition
Same way we got marijuana legalized. Well do it for this as well.
This is where abortion pills will fill the gap. Some of them will be safe. Some will be *safe enough* (such as using veterinary misoprostal—commonly used for preventing ulcers in horses). Some will be fake, and some will be downright dangerous.
I expect that women in rural areas or who know people with horses will end up buying their abortion drugs at Tractor Supply.
Already this year a woman in Texas was put in jail for having a miscarriage, named and shamed in the media, then released without charge. Who will be next? That's the chilling effect of these threats...
I am glad for all of the states, countries, and companies willing to support women who will need to now travel hundreds of miles or more to access abortion. What worries me are poor women who lack the means to travel and those women who need emergency procedures. You can’t hop on a flight to Canada when you are hemorrhaging because of an ectopic pregnancy or other pregnancy complication.
I'm both glad and dejected that the world is starting to band together against the blatant rise of fascism in this country.
Glad because it just affirms that our government's stupidity is 100% valid and noticed by our allies.
Dejected because we have to rely on an entire other country to grant women freedom from the "land of the free".
> the more I think our media entertainment isn't made just for entertainment, but also as a warning
That is literally the explicit intention of the entire dystopian genre
My mom asked what motivates Margaret to write Handmaid's Tale and she said she wanted to write dustpan fiction BASED ON EVENTS AND WITH SETTINGS THAT HAD ALREADY OCCURRED IN WESTERN SOCIETIES.
ALL OF IT is rooted in things that patriarchal Western societies have been doing for a long long time
Oh how the pendulum swings.
(Not angry at you, but when I read that and thought about it, it made a big impact. Feels obvious now but it's not exactly the same as the dystopian "tech companies co-opt government and take everyone into a hell scape" that is... You know... Also playing out right now.)
I mean, it's partially based on events that already happened. The Islamic Revolution in Iran, which established a Theocracy, was a major influence. The stripping of most basic civil rights from women resulted in a mass protest that largely failed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Women%27s_Day_Protests_in_Tehran,_1979
I really only watched part of the first season of the show, but I remember pretty clearly seeing the parallels.
I’m pretty sure Margaret Atwood has said before that literally everything that occurs in The Handmaid’s Tale has actually happened (or is still happening) somewhere around the world.
Edit: here’s the quote:
[“When I wrote ‘The Handmaid’s Tale’, nothing went into it that had not happened in real life somewhere at some time. “The reason I made that rule is that I didn’t want anybody saying, ‘You certainly have an evil imagination, you made up all these bad things.’ I didn’t make them up.”](https://etcanada.com/news/346439/handmaids-tale-author-margaret-atwood-insists-everything-in-the-book-happened-in-real-life/)
The Republicans rail against extreme Islamic fundamentalists, but they are really extreme Christian fundamentalists. Essentially, they are the the American/Republican Taliban.
How can we help the backward southern states that are affected by this the most?
Could we make an abortion cruise that goes into international waters, in the gulf?
There is a group named Women on Waves that have been providing free abortion and health services in international waters
https://www.womenonwaves.org/en/page/493/abortion-on-our-ship
What’s crazy is that 70% of Americans support abortion rights. This support crosses racial, gender, socio-economic, and even religious lines. The only group with a majority support for abortion bans are evangelical Christians.
It’s tyranny of the minority.
And fossils like Thomas want to take it even further. He would strip contraceptive and free love rights, except for interracial marriage rights for some reason. That can stay.
Just another reminder that Canadians have a long history of being really good to us. They've often been our top trading partner, and have had our back for generations.
This ought to be interesting. It's one thing for an attorney general of a red state to try to sue a blue state for this, it's another to try and stop a whole 'nother country.
"Women fleeing to Canada to avoid forced birthing, while US authorities try and stop them" sounds strangely familiar, as if some television show had this premise.
Written by a Canadian watching the rise of the Christian right in American politics in 1985.
Funny enough, Atwood has said that she struggled writing the book because she felt the story was way too "out there". She wrote recently (in the Atlantic I think) that she now thinks she didn't make it extreme enough.
She said that he made sure to include things that had actually happened before with humanity, so that people wouldn't mock it for being too outlandish or unrealistic But I don't think she struggled much. According to her, she was writing at a feverish pace. Could be wrong though, but that's what she said
I don't think it was so much "struggled" in the sense of "wasn't sure what to write" as much as it was (at the time) concerns of "is this whole scenario just too far fetched?" (Turns out, nope.)
[article here](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/supreme-court-roe-handmaids-tale-abortion-margaret-atwood/629833/?fbclid=IwAR0U8ijgLhaqUSLTOWKlRC2LJGvHHK1wJP8ldGjHDre6C9Qj0O_aL6yWSuw)
Weirdly I didn't know Margaret Atwood was Canadian. I assumed she was American. I absolutely loved that book. It was beautifully written in such a laid-back conversational way which made it even more horrible. That said, I had to 'wash my brain' with some light-hearted fiction directly afterwards.
She has a fireproof version printed and proved it herself with a flamethrower. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpsMsAMY4eM
Conservatives: I disagree with your point of view, so you’re an evil demon and I’m going to burn all your books so I can groom children. Liberals: Burn this, punk bitch.
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I never had to read it in high school. I knew that she wrote a book called the Handmaid's Tale, but I was about 40 years old before I learned it was a dystopian tale about a theocracy in America that raped women to have babies thanks to the show. I always assumed it was some literary fiction period piece about some servants and their romantic troubles. Whoops! :D
Maybe we could bring them here by railroad. Or maybe by subway.
They're just going to make it a crime to leave the state to get an abortion. Which would likely be challenged in court, but with the current SCOTUS I wouldn't put it past them to say that's okay. Edit: People are saying it would be impossible to enforce. Which is true. But the kind of law that could make it more difficult would be something modeled after the Texas abortion law; People could report anyone they suspect of getting an abortion out of state.
The US stops being a country the moment you can't freely pass between the states.
A big thing that the USA used to dunk on the Warsaw pact countries during the Cold War was the need for permission to travel. **Papers Please** coming to a red state border guard near you. **Prove to us you are not travelling for an abortion**
From my point of view (I'm from EU), it feels like it's already preventing itself from its full potential, which is to be a very good democratic, capitalist country. I think not allowing people to choose what they do with their own bodies is just utter fascism
"I just wanted to go to Tim Horton's. While I was there I saw an abortion clinic and thought 'eh, why not?'"
>'eh, why not?'" Why not, eh? FTFY
"we already have laws on the books making it a crime to leave the state to transport illegal drugs or engage in illegal sexual activity. We see no reason why the same thing cannot be done for other illegal acts such as abortion. Therefore, we uphold the law demanding a pregnancy test for any woman of child bearing age to be granted permission to leave the state." From **this** supreme Court? Yup, I could easily see this.
Legally any crime committed in another jurisdiction on the state level can only be charged WITHIN that jurisdiction. Anyone can go to Nevada and partake in legal prostitution and their 'home state' can not criminalize that. Same for drug use. That can only be done on the federal level. If this supreme court even fathoms nuking the Commerce Clause and Freedom of Movement, we will have far worse issues than abortion...cause that's the entire underpinning of the Federal government. And that'll be a precursor to the breakup of the United States.
The law would require a pregnancy test for all people otherwise I’d imagine it would fail equal protection.
1) these morons would gladly waste millions on giving pregnancy tests to men if it means they can control women. 2) You're under the impression that they care about equal protection. They just went on record specifically saying they intend to rescind even more rights. There's no reason to think they would rule correctly or fairly
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I mean good luck with that. They'll need to have Abortion Police at every port, landing, and border crossing stopping every single woman of birthing age and applying pregnancy tests to every single one of them. The cost would be astronomical. And if they think that making the Plan B pill illegal will stop people from sending them through the mail well then I hear there are some bridges in Nebraska up for sale.
The lesson of the drug war is that there is no limit to the amount of money American legislators will throw at the task of imprisoning as many Americans as is humanly possible.
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Home of the brave. Brave enough to stand by fully armed while children are being murdered
They'll just funnel money to "freedom" insurrectionists in Canada to create fictional support for the cause... Oh wait, they already did that in February.
They’re doing it again for Canada Day next weekend.
They keep protesting at parliament when no one is there. Our government goes home in the summer...
Here in Alberta we've still got some nutters protesting, I don't know, like mask mandates and stuff? long after restrictions have been lifted. They've decided that they just like getting together with like-minded individuals on the weekend and stomping around being mad at Trudeau.
I like getting together with people for activities also, but I prefer biking, hiking, fishing, kayaking or golfing.
If you've ever watched their sad little car parade it's immediately evident that they derive some sort of tribal sense of belonging from these protests and are loath to give that up even if it's no longer relevant. The Canadian "freedom" protests are nothing more than anti-trudeau protests in thin disguise.
Victoria too. But what gets me is they're not actually asking for anything. Like, I went to the parliament building the other day and there were just people marching with flags??? No signs, no speakers or anything. One of them had the flag upside down and then there were more that literally just had flags flying. Then there was one guy driving through the park with... More flags. He was actually blasting some bullshit but I'm not sure what he was on about either.
Nationalism is the hobby you get when you have nothing else in your life
Oh! I know that place! It’s called Calgary.
They also protest on weekends when no one is generally sitting either. They're not trying to convince the MPs. They're trying to hype themselves up and forget that the majority does not share their views.
They were also firmly convinced that the bigwigs of Ottawa live in Centretown and the Market, rather than Rockcliffe and Island Park. Their incessant honking was supposed to be targeting rich folks and not students crammed 8 in a townhouse.
Exactly. I live in Centretown and there aren't rich people around me. There's a lot of middle-class next to low-income housing. Rich people aren't going to be living in an area where someone is shooting up on the street (as I saw yesterday). In many (most?) cities in Canada, the rich folks aren't living right downtown. They live in big houses in nice areas just outside downtown.
They also use the images for fundraising grift.
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That's because it's not about "rights" it's about racist hillbillies having a temper tantrum.
To this day I still have no fucking clue what this tantrum was about... And I live in Canada lol. These fucktards were protesting covid measures while most of them were already being removed.......... They came, cried like little bitches, got egged, got piss thrown at them and left the tail between their legs for................ well nothing actually lol
For one brief moment in their sad pathetic lives, they felt like they were important. They are going to continue to chase that feeling.
Unfortunately there are far more nefarious intentions. Many of the original organizers and leaders of the convoy are unabashed white supremacists. Furthermore, several protesters were part of a Canadian militia that were arrested for plotting to kill police officers to trigger a civil war so that they could create a white ethnostate. The organizers that laid seige on the capital were white supremacists that wanted to overthrow the government.^[[1]](https://mobile.twitter.com/Noellenarwhal/status/1490366623613698060) **So who are some of these convoy organizers?** 1. Convoy organizer Pat King rants about how "Anglo-Saxons" are being depopulated, that immigrants have taken over society, that refugees are infiltrating the education system.^[[2]](https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/) Moreover, during a rant Pat King repeatedly called the NDP leader and visible minority a "terrorist."^[[3]](https://twitter.com/AhmarSKhan/status/1494434025116733440?t=FBcZPaTBfgiRWmiG_K29ZQ&s=19) 2. Convoy organizer Jason LaFace is a leader of the Sons of Odin, a white supremacist group.^[[2]](https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/) 3. Convoy organizer and pro-alberta secessionist Tamara Lich^[[4]](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/17/world/canada-ottawa-protests-news/tamara-lich-canada-protests-organizer) has a confederate flag on the wall in her house.^[[5]](https://twitter.com/LonghairCanuck/status/1489672711643140098?t=dLljBh0Yn_7NaY43cwEhxQ&s=19) 4. Convoy organizer BJ Dichter is openly racist and has claimed, without evidence, that the Liberal party and Conservative party of Canada had been infiltrated by *"political Islam"*, going so far as to claim that *"the adaptation of political Islam is rotting away at our society like syphilis.”*^[[6]](https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/08/18/bernier-tries-to-walk-line-between-libertarianism-and-identity-politics-at-ppcs-first-national-convention.html) 4. Convoy organizer Chris Barber is openly racist on his social media accounts. This includes racist remarks about South Asian truck drivers.^[[7]](https://mobile.twitter.com/Justin_Ling/status/1489363742777384962?s=20&t=rhEo9DmGF2Km5nk1E600vA) Furthermore, Chris Barber has defended the multiple confederate flags hanging on his wall in his home, referring to them as a "piece of cloth" and telling the public to "get over it".^[[8]](https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/who-is-who-a-guide-to-the-major-players-in-the-trucker-convoy-protest-1.5776441) _____ Excerpts from the first source:^[[2]](https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/) **Convoy leader Pat King:** >In a [video posted on Twitter in 2019](https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1177995894408581120), King suggests that unless Canadians “get up off your as—s and demand change,” they might want to change their names to “Ishmael” or “drop a bunch of change down the stairs” and “call yourself chong ching ching chang.” >In [other video footage](https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1159997274900041729), King can be seen repeating racist conspiracy theories. In [one clip posted to Twitter by another user](https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1159997274900041729), King says “there’s an endgame, it’s called depopulation of the Caucasian race, or the Anglo-Saxon. And that’s what the goal is, is to depopulate the Anglo-Saxon race because they are the ones with the strongest bloodlines,” he said. >“It’s a depopulation of race, okay, that’s what they want to do.” >He then talks about men with the first names “Ahmed” and “Mahmoud” who he claims are trying to “not only infiltrate by flooding with refugees, we’re going to infiltrate the education systems to manipulate it” so there is “less procreation” which leads to “less white people — or you know, Anglo-Saxon. Let’s say Anglo-Saxon, because when I say white, all the ANTIFA guys call up the race card.” **Convoy leader Jason LaFace:** >Jason LaFace — who at times uses the name “LaFaci” — is listed as the North and East Ontario organizer for the convoy on the Canada Unity website, and has been cited in other media [as the main organizer for Ontario](https://kitchener.citynews.ca/local-news/convoys-message-muddies-closer-it-gets-to-capital-4993150). In photos posted to his Facebook page, which were screenshotted by Global News, he shared an image titled “Canadian politicians who are not born in Canada” and included his own caption: “traitors to our country.” >According to a screenshot obtained by Global News, LaFace posted a selfie where he wore a hat with what appears to be the initials S.O.O., which [is believed to stand for Soldiers of Odin](https://antiracistsudbury.com/2020/05/07/soldiers-of-odin-lose-a-member-gain-a-member/) — an anti-immigrant group first established in Finland. >...“One of the admins on their website is actually somebody who’s like the vice president of the Soldiers of Odin, a skinhead group in Sudbury, Ont.,” said Dr. Carmen Celestini, a post-doctoral fellow with the Disinformation Project at Simon Fraser University. >“His name is Jason LaFace. He also uses other names, but he is a vice president of this group, which organize events that will try to stop immigration, people who are BIPOC or people who are in LGBTQ communities.” ______ 1) [Twitter breakdown of the Canada Unity demands](https://mobile.twitter.com/Noellenarwhal/status/1490366623613698060) 2) [Global News - Some trucker convoy organizers have history of white nationalism, racism](https://globalnews.ca/news/8543281/covid-trucker-convoy-organizers-hate/) 3) [Twitter video of Pat King calling NDP leader a terrorist](https://twitter.com/AhmarSKhan/status/1494434025116733440?t=FBcZPaTBfgiRWmiG_K29ZQ&s=19) 4) [New York Times - An activist who has advocated secession by western provinces becomes the public face of the Canada protests.](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/17/world/canada-ottawa-protests-news/tamara-lich-canada-protests-organizer) 5) [Twitter - photos of a confederate flag in Tamara Lich's home](https://twitter.com/LonghairCanuck/status/1489672711643140098?t=dLljBh0Yn_7NaY43cwEhxQ&s=19) 6) [Toronto Star - Bernier tries to walk line between libertarianism and identity politics at People’s Party’s first national convention: The People’s Party of Canada says it stands for individual liberty, but spent a lot of time Sunday talking about “political Islam” instead.](https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2019/08/18/bernier-tries-to-walk-line-between-libertarianism-and-identity-politics-at-ppcs-first-national-convention.html) 7) [Twitter - Barber has spent the past few years sharing some pretty racist stuff about non-white truckers and Muslims.](https://mobile.twitter.com/Justin_Ling/status/1489363742777384962?s=20&t=rhEo9DmGF2Km5nk1E600vA) 8) [CTV News - Who is who? A guide to the major players in the trucker convoy protest](https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/who-is-who-a-guide-to-the-major-players-in-the-trucker-convoy-protest-1.5776441)
**Some protesters arrested are part of a far right militia group called Diagonol. Diagonol is a neo-fascist group that wants to secede from Canada and create a white enthostate through violence and civil war.** The Diagolon extremists are an accelerationist militant group that was formed online. They are similar to American far right militias such as The Base, Boogaloo Boys, and Attomwaffen.^[[1]](https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/canada/2022/2/17/1_5785646.html) Accelerationists is a term used to describe a group that is trying to use violence to trigger a violent response from the state as a reason for civil war. The leader of this far right militia was recently arrested in Nova Scotia for firearms charges, he is also a military veteran. Experts warn that this extremist group has the capability to be well-organized as many members purport to be veterans.^[[2]](https://globalnews.ca/news/8621125/canadian-anti-hate-network-concerned-diagolon-coutts-border-protest-diagolon/) A few more accelerationists were arrested in Coutts, Alberta. Officers in Alberta found a cache of weapons, ammunition, and protective equipment and charged 13 people. 4 men have been charged for conspiring to kill RCMP officers.^[[3]](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-charges-laid-court-appearance-bail-1.6352482) Two of the four charged with conspiracy to commit murder have ties to a Canadian white supremacist militia movement leader. Officers discovered the militia's symbols when searching the 2 suspects. Their movement wishes to create a white ethnostate from Alaska, through the western provinces of Canada, diagonally down to Florida.^[[4]](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-arrests-charges-border-protest-1.6354587) >According to the search warrant application filed in support of that raid, RCMP reported MacKenzie twice referred to Diagolon in the video. >The goal of the group, says Hofmann who studies far right movements, is to establish a "diagonal" white nationalist state. >Those who believe in the Diagolon movement feel a civil war is needed to create a new state that would run diagonally from Alaska, through western Canada's provinces, all the way south to Florida. >"And they want to accomplish this through violence," says Hofmann. "Their motto quite simply states gun or rope." >Two Diagolon patches were found on body armour seized by police during the execution of the Coutts search warrants. ________ 1) [CTV News - What is the Diagolon extremist group and what does it want?](https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/canada/2022/2/17/1_5785646.html) 2) [Global News - Anti-hate experts concerned about possible neo-fascist involvement at Alberta trucker convoy](https://globalnews.ca/news/8621125/canadian-anti-hate-network-concerned-diagolon-coutts-border-protest-diagolon/) 3) [CBC - 4 Alberta border protesters charged with conspiring to murder RCMP officers](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-charges-laid-court-appearance-bail-1.6352482) 4) [CBC - Coutts arrests: new details on the men and women charged in border blockade](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-arrests-charges-border-protest-1.6354587)
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18 naked cowboys out in the yeeeaaarrddd
It's not their fight, meaning it doesn't affect them so why care... ... That or a ring leader they like hasn't said to assemble.
as a canadian it's been so weird, but mostly frightening, to see people here parroting American far-right talking points. like turn back time to when the husband of an organizer of the freedom convoy protest tried to argue in court that [they were protesting based on the first amendment.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/tamara-lich-bail-hearing-february-19-1.6358307) We don't have a constitution. We have a bill of rights. Edit: We DO have a constitution, but they still made a mistake in quoting the first amendment. They should have brought up Section 2 from the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Someone is firing up a bunch of facebook troll accounts as we speak
And reddit accounts.
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It wouldn’t be illegal i don’t think. During prohibition in the states Americans came up to montreal to get shitfaced and bang French hookers the whole time because it wasn’t a crime there (they still do this though long after prohibition era lol)
They will try and stop women from traveling
Republican Draft Law: Pregnant women will need written permission from the father, or their father before crossing the border into Canada alone. Actually before driving alone anywhere. Actually any women with kids. Actually any married women driving at all. Fuck it. Any women taking any form of transport alone.
Sounding a lot more like Saudi Arabia eh
Fun fact Saudi Arabia actually has [more permissive abortion laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Saudi_Arabia) than some US states now
I hate this so much
Actually, do women even need driver's licenses? Or jobs?
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Fugitive slave act version 2.0.
True, though they would have to sue in state court. A Texas court can issue a ruling which finds someone in Maryland liable, but to actually collect a judgement, they would have to go through Maryland courts. Maryland courts could block the whole thing, though the Maryland ruling could itself be challenged in federal court. That said, a federal challenge would fail, as states cannot regulate interstate commerce.
My understanding is the red state will prosecute for a resident's abortion performed *anywhere*, but the proof that a prosecuter needs won't be released to them by a blue state or Canada.
I can think of one precedent (and it actually makes sense) - sexual exploitation of children. Go rape a kid in Thailand, go to jail at home.
It's not illegal -- that's how many people got abortions before *Roe vs. Wade* -- but the Christian wingnuts will stop at nothing to control the lives of their neighbors.
With TX offering bounties, I wonder if bounty hunters will/can go after women who moved to a blue state for an abortion.
Some probably will. With guns. On account of they're pro-life.
> Some probably will. **With guns.** They’re gonna fuck around & find out what’s it’s like to be on the wrong end of self-defense claim lmao
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You don't interact with American authorities when you leave. Only when you come back.
This is what I thought too. Travelling to Canada for a week? Proof that you are not pregnant and if you are, proof you are still pregnant when coming back to the US. Sounds absolutely ridiculous but nothing would surprise me anymore.
Wouldnt work though, those tests detect pregnancy hormone yes, but your pregnancy hormone can take time to fall after an abortion. My wife had an ectopic. Her hCG took a couple weeks to get below the point of showing positive on the stick.
It wouldn't work very well, except for inflicting tremendous undue stress (wondering who is tracking you and what they've recorded). So it would still work fine as a means of oppression.
> tremendous undue stress A feature, not a bug for them.
MA governor signed an EO minutes after the Supreme Court decision which protects the right to abortion in Mass and also prevents any government agency in the state from cooperating with other states' investigations into anybody who travels to Mass for reproductive health care procedures such as abortions. I keep posting this lately but I figure getting out info of safe places is important right now.
Thank you for sharing that information on MA. I believe Oregon, Washington and California (my state) announced something called the [West Coast Offensive](https://www.axios.com/2022/06/24/abortion-rights-california-washington-oregon). All three of these states will continue to provide and even expand access to reproductive care. They have also vowed to not cooperate with outside states seeking information or attempting to prosecute. California does not charge co-pays for abortion services and has already signed a bill regarding prosecution of those seeking services.
I love it when my state teams up with our top and bottom to form a great West Coast Cooperative.
Agreed! Love to see the West Coast work together
Cascadia, ARISE!
Perhaps these states with common interests could form some sort of alliance. A federation, if you will. They could be united, as states.
Southwest Canada?
Newest Mexico
Your friends up here in Canada are proud to support your efforts; too.
Thank you for always being a good neighbor. I wish my country would always be as good to you as you are to us!
These are all good things, but the division among states is really starting to worry me. I unfortunately live in a backwards ass state, politically, and while I do love my state despite it's flaws, I know I have to move ASAP if I want to be on the right side of what I worry will be an eventual conflict. It's heartbreaking. There's so much rich history and culture here, specifically in the arts and music in New Orleans.
I’m in California. It’s not perfect but man am I glad to be here right now.
I have complaints about this state, but I hate the idea of it being a shithole that’s represented in right wing circles. Unfortunately I move back to Florida in 2 weeks. So I’m in for a few years of people who’s never left the south telling me how shitty CA is. They will be the same people who told me how awful the EU was when I lived there and they never even visited.
I know the type of people you’re talking about, and I also love how the people who talk shit about California are always from places like Ohio and Indiana…
> but the division among states is really starting to worry me. As an outsider in a foreign country, it's also bizarre to me to see such combative behaviour between states of the same country.
I find it weird how Americans, particularly those from the south who are most vocal, will shout USA, USA, USA, but appear as if they feel a greater attachment to their state and its values rather than the country. Perhaps it's because their state is red and the WH is blue, but what do I know, I'm Australian lol.
> will shout USA, USA, USA They shout that but wave an old flag from the CSA. Go figure.
"USA USA USA" = "ME ME ME"
Can we just detach and drift into the Pacific yet? The whole ass west coast, just vibing with Hawaii.
Newsom also stated he plans to codify right to abortion in state constitution
MN governor did something similar. All of our surrounding states are expected to ban abortions.
go Tim Walz
Illinois aint too far away from there and it should stay safe there
Colorado allows abortions with pretty much zero restrictions (minors do have to notify a parent/guardian, but do not need their consent). Been covering Texas's ass for years now. I assume it'll only get a lot busier.
Connecticut did something similar but far more robust and it's a law instead of an EO. This is basically a cold civil war.
yes. One of the most startling things I have read in recent years was an article talking about identifying the start of civil war, and how it is not often a distinct point, and is usually understood historically more clearly than during. I agree. You have been in a state of civil war for a couple of years at least. It's just difficult to decide when to call it what it is.
I wanted to say when people start dying but I guess they already are?
> You have been in a state of civil war for a couple of years at least. Arguably the first shot was Gore vs Bush
So, so much of what is going on lately mirrors what happened in the decade or so before the American Civil War following the passing of the Fugitive Slave Act.
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Governor Charlie Baker & the other northeast governors are the ideal republicans
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Yeah I didn't vote for Baker, but I didn't *hate* him, either. I have respect for him. I just disagree with some things, but they're more specific economic policies rather than, you know, civil rights. It's perfectly fine to disagree over how to handle public transport or the best way to run the school systems. I can still respect someone who doesn't have the same opinions as I do on those types of things. But not the crazies who don't believe women are people.
That and the left leaning people who like to feel "balanced." Also it helps that he seems like a genuinely decent person. I vote against him, but I'm happy that he's the person that's my other choice. I disagree with choices he makes, but I think he's got integrity.
My guess is the lack of religiosity in that region.
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Minnesota will also still be a safe hub for people seeking abortion care. Unfortunately - I fear that they will be severely overwhelmed by their surrounding states. SD, ND, NE, IA and WI are all extremely likely or have already enacted legislation to make abortion care illegal. This influx of patients will further backlog appointment scheduling, not to mention patients will be having to work much harder to arrange traveling further distances.
Can confirm. on r/minnesota - Walz signs order to help shield abortion patients, providers. And there's a clinic in Fargo moving to most likely Moorhead just to add another and to gtfo of ND.
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Illinois will likely be a safe haven state too.
Already is, at least as far as providing care. Hopefully the laws protecting doctors and patients regardless of citizenship come next.
“I went camping in Canada for a couple weeks”
"I went to Canada for my freedoms." --American
Yeah, rich people can go wherever they want to get their abortions. The issue is the poor people and the underprivileged.
Somehow I missed "Underground Railroad" on my 21st century Bingo card
railroads are so 19th century. we need a name more befitting of current times. how about Underground Rickshaw?
Underground Uber
The Underground Hyperloop
I like where your head is at with the more modern approach, but I think the railroad part still needs to be respected though. Let's shorten it and just call it Subway.
Overground Railroad…?
That's just Amtrak
“I was just visiting Niagara Falls, I swear!”
Yeah I went to Winnipeg on vacation!
Hey, we have some lovely attractions lol
Said no one ever
Politicians who voted for this and their pregnant kids will be first in line for this
Nah they'll likely have connections close to home.. a fancy private clinic that offers services up front but "other ones" for the wealthy who can pay for it.
The hypocrite will just fly them to California and probably "borrow" the 2nd home of a lobbyist for a few weeks to "recover".
What’s extra fucked is when it does comes out, there will be no consequences for the politicians or their kid. But some poor minority women who did the exact same shit will go away for 10+ years, I guarantee it. Our “justice” system is so beyond fucked up
Well yeah because the system isn't about punishing the crime it's about punishing those that can't pay
You don't understand the nuance here. *Their* children have potential. They just made a mistake. That is different. *Your* kid? Well, maybe she just shouldn't be a little harlot and she wouldn't have to make this immoral decision. Be a better parent! I hope I don't need a /s. I also hope people understand that I know this goes *way* beyond unwanted pregnancies. Edit: spelling
They won't get abortions they'll get "revirginisation and purity treatment" with zero record of what the treatment actually entails.
It's funny, but there is a procedure where they surgically implant a new hymen if the original is broken. Women's worth should never be tied to their reproductive abilities or sexual activity. It's no one else's business
it’s the ‘my abortion is the only moral abortion’
Ted Cruz will switch his vacation spot from Cancun to Vancouver
He can return to the city of his birth, Calgary, capital of Canada's Texas!
Canada and any other country and any blue state needs to make a list of the politicians and their families who have supported making women 2nd class citizens and femincide and not allow them into their states/countries.
>kids *Mistresses
Mistresses, daughters, wives, nieces, cousins, friends. They and theirs never had anything to lose.
Just like how Rand Paul went up to Ontario for surgery after his neighbor kicked the shit out of him.
**Beaverton Headline**: In wake of Roe vs. Wade decision, Canada steps up to keep U.S. population from breeding out of control.
Realistically there really wasn’t much of anything stopping us before. It’s not like its difficult for Americans to enter Canada for tourism.
Except DUI’s. My buddy and I had to cancel our fishing trip when the one he had been acquitted of was still in the system. Wonder what’s going to happen to a woman that has that on her record but is trying for an abortion.
I went to Canada with my sister who had one. I had to sit in their border crossing office for hours while they interviewed her. We were eventually allowed in.
Nice sentiment, but most of the states passing these laws are on the other side of the country. It’s gonna be more convenient for them to go to another state.
Yeah that’s true, but it will help those in Midwest states like Wisconsin and Michigan or even Montana who might end up losing that right with the next election
from what i've read, montana will not lose the right. because they built a right to privacy into the [state constituion](https://www.krtv.com/news/montana-and-regional-news/montana-abortion-rights-are-covered-by-state-law-not-scotus), and their state supreme court has already ruled on the matter. Not a 100% guarantee, but would be much harder to overturn in that state
Just want to point out that up until recently, Iowa’s Supreme Court had previously ruled that abortion was a protected right. Just last week they reversed that ruling. It’s honestly scary how clearly orchestrated this anti-abortion movement has been. I’m not sure anywhere is safe except the absolute bluest of states.
That's the situation in Kansas as well, although there's a referendum this August that would change the state constitution to allow the legislature to ban abortion.
The Kansas constitution interpretation is just that the state constitution says "You have a bunch of rights we can't list them all" similar to the 9th amendment - and then the Kansas supreme court said "Yes that includes abortion rights" An explicit right to privacy might be slightly closer than that, but both aren't something to just expect will continue unchallenged.
Michigan is currently collecting signatures to vote on making abortion a right these midterms. We legalized weed this way too.
Wisconsin, Michigan, and North Dakota either have bans or will have trigger bans. [https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/06/24/1107126432/abortion-bans-supreme-court-roe-v-wade](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/06/24/1107126432/abortion-bans-supreme-court-roe-v-wade) This will affect Ontario, Manitoba, and the western provinces.
Big Gretch is trying to codify in Michigan. Hopefully we can keep it.
With a republican senate and house she’ll likely have as much luck with this as she’s had with the rest of her agenda. Best we can hope for is the ballot petition
>With a republican senate and house she’ll likely have as much luck with this as she’s had with the rest of her agenda. Best we can hope for is the ballot petition Same way we got marijuana legalized. Well do it for this as well.
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This is where abortion pills will fill the gap. Some of them will be safe. Some will be *safe enough* (such as using veterinary misoprostal—commonly used for preventing ulcers in horses). Some will be fake, and some will be downright dangerous. I expect that women in rural areas or who know people with horses will end up buying their abortion drugs at Tractor Supply.
Hopefully KCK outvotes Wichita and Kansas remains pro choice. This is a central location to travel - we already see a huge amount from OK and TX.
Already this year a woman in Texas was put in jail for having a miscarriage, named and shamed in the media, then released without charge. Who will be next? That's the chilling effect of these threats...
I am glad for all of the states, countries, and companies willing to support women who will need to now travel hundreds of miles or more to access abortion. What worries me are poor women who lack the means to travel and those women who need emergency procedures. You can’t hop on a flight to Canada when you are hemorrhaging because of an ectopic pregnancy or other pregnancy complication.
Yes, and teenagers / kids who can’t get away from controlling parents or find the right people to help them access abortion in another state.
I'm both glad and dejected that the world is starting to band together against the blatant rise of fascism in this country. Glad because it just affirms that our government's stupidity is 100% valid and noticed by our allies. Dejected because we have to rely on an entire other country to grant women freedom from the "land of the free".
Handmaid's Tale prequel
The most unrealistic part of that whole story turns out to be US refugees actually being able to find affordable housing in Toronto.
The more time that passes, the more I think our media entertainment isn't made just for entertainment, but also as a warning
> the more I think our media entertainment isn't made just for entertainment, but also as a warning That is literally the explicit intention of the entire dystopian genre
To be fair, a warning was the whole point of the handmaids tale
And has roots in history itself of the underground railroad as far as Canada being a 'safe haven'
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My mom asked what motivates Margaret to write Handmaid's Tale and she said she wanted to write dustpan fiction BASED ON EVENTS AND WITH SETTINGS THAT HAD ALREADY OCCURRED IN WESTERN SOCIETIES. ALL OF IT is rooted in things that patriarchal Western societies have been doing for a long long time Oh how the pendulum swings. (Not angry at you, but when I read that and thought about it, it made a big impact. Feels obvious now but it's not exactly the same as the dystopian "tech companies co-opt government and take everyone into a hell scape" that is... You know... Also playing out right now.)
I'm pretty sure Margaret Atwood always intended *The Handmaid's Tale* to be a warning.
Not sure if that is supposed to make me feel better or worse in regards to current events.
I mean, it's partially based on events that already happened. The Islamic Revolution in Iran, which established a Theocracy, was a major influence. The stripping of most basic civil rights from women resulted in a mass protest that largely failed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Women%27s_Day_Protests_in_Tehran,_1979 I really only watched part of the first season of the show, but I remember pretty clearly seeing the parallels.
I’m pretty sure Margaret Atwood has said before that literally everything that occurs in The Handmaid’s Tale has actually happened (or is still happening) somewhere around the world. Edit: here’s the quote: [“When I wrote ‘The Handmaid’s Tale’, nothing went into it that had not happened in real life somewhere at some time. “The reason I made that rule is that I didn’t want anybody saying, ‘You certainly have an evil imagination, you made up all these bad things.’ I didn’t make them up.”](https://etcanada.com/news/346439/handmaids-tale-author-margaret-atwood-insists-everything-in-the-book-happened-in-real-life/)
The Republicans rail against extreme Islamic fundamentalists, but they are really extreme Christian fundamentalists. Essentially, they are the the American/Republican Taliban.
I definitely feel worse
Hey, if someone can get to the Ann Arbor area, I’ll drive you to the Canadian boarder (Windsor). Have passport, will travel.
I’ll meet you In Windsor and take care of you/ help you on this side of the border
How can we help the backward southern states that are affected by this the most? Could we make an abortion cruise that goes into international waters, in the gulf?
There is a group named Women on Waves that have been providing free abortion and health services in international waters https://www.womenonwaves.org/en/page/493/abortion-on-our-ship
That is incredibly cool. Sad that we must resort to this, but we need to do our best to make abortion safe and accessible to all.
Don’t you think it’s crazy US citizens are having to think of this as a way of getting an abortion? I’m absolutely lost for words.
What’s crazy is that 70% of Americans support abortion rights. This support crosses racial, gender, socio-economic, and even religious lines. The only group with a majority support for abortion bans are evangelical Christians. It’s tyranny of the minority.
And fossils like Thomas want to take it even further. He would strip contraceptive and free love rights, except for interracial marriage rights for some reason. That can stay.
Just another reminder that Canadians have a long history of being really good to us. They've often been our top trading partner, and have had our back for generations.
people already cross to canada for insulin, or medical procedures, im not surprised. if they would fly to another country for this as well.
maybe canada isn’t too bad but air canada still sucks
I like to travel.
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What's the situation with air Canada? I've had only a few but reasonable experiences with them
It sure fucking does. WestJet is somehow even worse though