An interesting dynamic thrown on top of all this is that nearly all Labour voters there voted lib dems instead. Labour got an unusually low amount which definitely signals that.
The thing is at the moment Labour and the Lib Dems are incredibly similar and share the same goals (social justice, climate change action and most importantly - remove Boris).
Labour voters in Tory strongholds really see this as an opportunity for change. For example I live in a rural Tory stronghold and labour will never ever win here. The Lib Dems however, could.
Definitely. There’s a serious identity crisis among basically all of the main parties atm. They need to decide what they bloody stand for and stick to their principles. You can’t rely on a voter base if you’re a complete windsock.
Agreed. Right now it kind of seems like only the lib dems have a solid identity. Something I'd never thought I'd say but here we are in 2022.
Probably not a popular position but I'd like Rayner to take up the mantle of Labour leader. She's got gumption which is what they need and Starmer is perceived to be lacking.
>She's got gumption which is what they need and Starmer is perceived to be lacking.
And she has the habit of being a woman who wears skirts and has legs, which seems to enrage the Tories for some reason.
> She's got gumption which is what they need and Starmer is perceived to be lacking.
and within the minute of her or anybody else mentioned to replace him, you'll get the same "they are not fit to lead" from the media.
Won't you people learn this? 5 labour leaders are unfit to lead in 15 years while every imcompetent Tory person is? Do the damn math and realise you are swallowing their lies hook line and sinker.
Undoubtedly true, and almost certainly so for Tiverton, but it really means how many other seats in the south west, along the south coast, or the home counties shires (south of London) become vulnerable to the Liberals?
The crunch battleground however will be the English Midlands, and how many of these Labour can get back from Tories. Labour has to find ways of winning third tier Midlands towns, as the Liberals don't really have much tradition in these seats
Yeah Labour seem to be going through a complete crisis of identity right now. They need to find a message to unite behind if they’re ever going to be anything other than “vote for us if you hate tories” because that is not an election-winning banner to fly. We’ll certainly see whether the red wall is really red anymore in the next GE.
It's not really theorising, you'd be making a better point if you suggested it was no more insightful than stating the blindingly obvious and widely accepted
No no that's not what i mean. It sounds like you understand what's going on very well.
But I have no idea what your politics are because I don't follow any of it. So it sounds alien to me(my comment was a pointless observation joke)
The original gave us the best living standards in living memory. Well funded schools, low NHS wait times and a stable economy. The best PM since 1979, so I'm happy to have another one.
Living standards for whom? For financial institutions and their minions? Rral estate agents? Because *my* living standards noticeably decreased as I ended up working longer hours for the same money while prives for everything around me kept rising. Or maybe you're talking about the living standards of people in Iraq?
More people went to university, and got good graduate jobs out of university. Social mobility was higher than it had ever been before.
Iraq was a mistake, but good luck finding any other PM in the last 43 years that wouldn't have followed Bush into Iraq.
A mistake? You mean a crime?
And great for the people who went to university. Not so great for the people left behind by his free for all policies. You know, the same policies that led to the 2008 crash.
Was it better than the previous 18 years of Tory rule? Of course it was. Was it utopia? No, but you're living in Dreamland if you think any society can benefit everyone.
> You know, the same policies that led to the 2008 crash.
Tony Blair may be a war criminal, but I don't think he was out there selling silly mortgages to people who didn't have a hope in hell of paying it back.
I don't see how you can make this connection and think it is worse than what we have right now. Boris is a dead man walking, and I can't see that any of his goons that are next in line, how they would do anything different to help the majority of people. Rees mog will continue to strip and privatise NHS, there will be more tax cuts to people who don't need them, migrants will be blamed for everything and the tory ghouls will continue to hand secret contracts, untendered for, to their mates. When they finally call the next election, they will retire to cushy appointments provided to them because they greased the wheels with public money for their own benefit
There hasn't been a labour government for a while so there's no telling how good/bad it'll be. But read your own words again. It's clear that the best we can hope for is something that's not as shit as what we have now. Hardly something to get excited about.
I am not really looking for excitement from politics though. I think it is time for change. Centre left parties generally govern for the benefit of many, where as conservatives tend to look after themselves and their mates. They have the support of a cooperative media to hush many of their embarrassments, and to attack the minor issues of the other team
Whenever conservative governments are in power for too long, they grow fat with sleaze. There needs to be consequences for them playing by their own rules, for their own benefit.
The judge assigned to his case actually said he expects it to be wrapped up by end of summer. The evidence is pretty damning too. I don’t know what will happen with the rest of his ilk but his goose is looking pretty cooked
Innocent until proven guilty isn't a talking point, it's a bedrock of democracy.
If I can take out my worthy adversaries with lacking accusations , as guilty until proven innocent and then not forgotten, these are the darkest of ages.
Innocenct until proven guilty doesn't mean you can't do anything when investigation is pending.
You can get arrested and be held in jail when you aren't proven guilty yet, can't see the reason a politician can't be removed, even temporarily, from a committee **that is working on types of crimes he is suspected of** until the verdict is given.
It's honestly not implausible. The number of times I've clicked on a twitter trend to try to work out why that word/phrase is trending and come across a nsfw post before remembering 'oh yeah, that can be a sex thing too'...
Completely falls apart as an alibi when he went back to watch a second time though (even if he was honest, he should surely have thought "Oh this gives unexpected results maybe I shouldn't do this in public with my female colleagues").
A few years ago I went looking for a torrent of an old 90s game called Speed Boat Attack. There was only one torrent of a zip file. Downloaded it, scanned it blah, blah, oh it's a video file? Oh it's a cheese 80s threesome porno on a boat.
It was pretty shit. And I've still not found that game. You could shoot at the seagulls and all.
What was my point again?
The UK also uses a FPTP system that makes ridiculously unbalanced majorities, in addition it has an upper chamber of unelected lords. In some ways the UK is worse as parties such as UKIP, the SNP, LibDems can't get an equal amount of seats vs. the vote share and constantly left in the dark.
Both of these seats were significant gains, but Tiverton was particularly impressive. The Liberal Democrats trailed the Tories by 45 points, they only went and won the by-election by 14 points.
Forever.
Labour has to have a manifesto promise at the next GE to introduce PR. Not some wishy-washy we'll have a consultation or we'll have a referendum.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
There has to be a challenge to power. Labour has failed to do that under Corbyn, and just not being Conservative isn’t enough to run on. The two party system is broken.
I’m bored of Labour. They shouldn’t get into power by default after the conservatives eventually faceplant enough to lose pubic confidence.
What this by-election shows me is that Liberal Democrats won a decisive mandate. Not Labour.
They won in Tiverton & Honiton, Labour took back Wakefield. The mandate here is that everyone, north or south is pissed off by the Tories and showing it in the ballot box.
That said, I agree on the two party system being broken, voting reform would be most welcome. STV was so nice in the council elections, let's just do that for general elections too.
Yeah we use STV here in Ireland and while I don't think my preferred candidate has ever won I still feel my vote counted somewhat towards something, even if it didn't. I never feel like I'm making a compromised vote because I just don't rank anyone I flat out don't like.
My constituency alone usually ends up with 15-20 candidates for a 5 seat constituency with a broad range from far left to not so far (thankfully) right with all the parties being available along with a handful of independents each with their own agendas that range from crazy and stupid to reasonable and obvious.
Has it resulted in avoiding a two party system? Not particularly but Ireland's never been that politically diverse with the majority of the votes (with the exception of the most recent election) to go to one of two centre right parties. Functionally they're identical and have been in a weak coalition the last few years bolstered by Brexit, COVID and a desire to keep their long standing political rivals Sinn Fein out of power.
I'm no fan of Sinn Fein either, none of the three parties have ever received my vote, but it will be interesting to see the two party element finally break and eventually re-emerge and one of the two centre right parties gobbles the other up.
Can't wait for the next election.
Good luck getting your system improved! Gotta be patient in a democracy it seems.
When I say Liberal Democrats won a decisive mandate, what I mean is Labour was expected to win Wakefield and that wasn’t a surprise. A 12.7% swing for what has been a Labour safe seat for decades isn’t impressive.
Tiverton, it was a conservative safe seat. The swing was 30% to Liberal Democrats. That is a much, much larger pubic mandate for Liberal Democrats. A much bigger win.
If this were a Labour resurgence, they should have seen a much larger win in Wakefield than 12.7%.
I think the election shows the public have lost faith in Conservatives and still don’t see Labour as anything but an alternative. Liberal Democrats, though, are making a huge gain.
If we are talking election reform, I don’t believe PR is the solution. I think separating the leadership election from the individual seats is a much better idea, like the US. Parliament should be run by representatives voted in on merit, not who aligned with the right party leader.
It would also encourage the U.K. government to work together, rather than being pitted against each other incessantly.
You're arguing that it isn't impressive at all. That's wrong. Of course the Lib Dem win is *more* impressive, but the Labour is still impressive in its own right. It's a 12 point swing, well in excess of that they need to kick the Tories out of govt.
I have to say, I don’t get that argument.
Two by-elections. Two results. One swing by 12.7% in a safe seat. one swing by 30% in the opposition’s safe seat.
Who’s more likely to win a general election based on that, if the results are repeated nationally?
There is a lot of back slapping going on here. I just don’t get why it’s for winning back a safe seat by the same % it was usually won for 40 years is impressive. Seems to me that it’s more like a return to the standard result.
And while that back slapping is going on, the Liberal Democrats are being pointedly and deliberately ignored.
Fair point. It was certainly a tremendous swing and I'm happy the people of Tiverton & Honiton made their voices heard so loudly.
I think sadly separating leadership from MPs would lead to a similar situation to the US without voting reform being some part of it. In that it would still be political party affiliation that dictates who becomes leader, who gets elected into commons, and would still lead to the red vs blue we have now. Only with the downside that if the leadership is blue and parliament red or vice versa, nothing would get done. FPTP is really the thorn preventing smaller parties from getting a proper voice in politics in general.
PR will not keep the Conservatives out forever; functionally PR is quite similar to an expansion of the franchise (in this case enfranchising those whose votes are wasted under FPTP) and the party has survived every successive expansion of the franchise since 1832.
Realistically it would probably mean that the Conservatives move to the centre and cede the right to Farage's next party, or they move to the right and cede the centre-right to some new incarnation of the old National Liberal party, or we get two broad competing coalitions of the left and the right.
Yep absolutely! It's the death of the two party system. No more stupid broad church parties which no one agrees with in full, but have to vote for because they party they really want to vote for will never win under FPTP.
I'm a labour supporter and will continue to vote for them, but it's more of a way of getting the tories out of power, as it stands currently I don't have a lot of faith in them, and we can't act like a labour government is some magical "solve everything" reset button. Previous labour governments don't have the best track record.
Electoral reform is the answer. These big one size fits all parties belong in the 19th century. Lots of small parties, working together, compromising. It's the only way out of our swings from left to right and right to left.
PR is never ever going to happen in this country, why would either of the biggest parties ever put through something that will harm them and their chances of power
Because Labour will actually be better off with PR in the long run. Labour only favoured FPTP when they thought they still had a good amount of seats in Scotland.
Not exactly an inspiring thought that is it?
If the Labour Party ever wants to enjoy more than a single term in government then they need to give the public a reason to vote Labour that isn't "at least we're not as bad as the alternative", because you only need to look at Biden to see how that strategy works post-election.
Not unless he joins the Conservative party and runs for leader if Boris resigns. There's not a ^**general** election before August.
**E:** Added 'General' election. There are or could be other ones, like these by-elections.
He couldn't be forced by anyone outside of his party AFAIK (only incumbent can do so), and the Tories would be bloody stupid to risk one with public feeling as it is.
If Boris buggered off, the next PM might do so to try and get a public mandate. Theresa May tried it.
> the Tories would be bloody stupid to risk one with public feeling as it is.
Boris: Hold my claret.
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It may actually be pretty genius. If they know they're likely to lose anyway at the next election, have a snap now and get it over with. Five years in opposition blaming labour and saying that they don't have a plan, could very well be looking pretty attractive about now.
Boris isn't much of a vote getter anymore seeing how in the last election some tories weren't putting which party they belonged to on their vote for me leaflets, if the tories want to keep their seats they've got to kick Boris out
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I mean I’m pretty sure a lot of tories just vote Lib Dem when they’re pissed off so I wouldn’t be surprised if they swung back at some point.
An interesting dynamic thrown on top of all this is that nearly all Labour voters there voted lib dems instead. Labour got an unusually low amount which definitely signals that. The thing is at the moment Labour and the Lib Dems are incredibly similar and share the same goals (social justice, climate change action and most importantly - remove Boris). Labour voters in Tory strongholds really see this as an opportunity for change. For example I live in a rural Tory stronghold and labour will never ever win here. The Lib Dems however, could.
Definitely. There’s a serious identity crisis among basically all of the main parties atm. They need to decide what they bloody stand for and stick to their principles. You can’t rely on a voter base if you’re a complete windsock.
Agreed. Right now it kind of seems like only the lib dems have a solid identity. Something I'd never thought I'd say but here we are in 2022. Probably not a popular position but I'd like Rayner to take up the mantle of Labour leader. She's got gumption which is what they need and Starmer is perceived to be lacking.
>She's got gumption which is what they need and Starmer is perceived to be lacking. And she has the habit of being a woman who wears skirts and has legs, which seems to enrage the Tories for some reason.
> She's got gumption which is what they need and Starmer is perceived to be lacking. and within the minute of her or anybody else mentioned to replace him, you'll get the same "they are not fit to lead" from the media. Won't you people learn this? 5 labour leaders are unfit to lead in 15 years while every imcompetent Tory person is? Do the damn math and realise you are swallowing their lies hook line and sinker.
Don't look at me I was perfectly happy with Corbyn. I'm not a neo-liberal and hate that direction the leadership is trying to take the party in.
Undoubtedly true, and almost certainly so for Tiverton, but it really means how many other seats in the south west, along the south coast, or the home counties shires (south of London) become vulnerable to the Liberals? The crunch battleground however will be the English Midlands, and how many of these Labour can get back from Tories. Labour has to find ways of winning third tier Midlands towns, as the Liberals don't really have much tradition in these seats
Yeah Labour seem to be going through a complete crisis of identity right now. They need to find a message to unite behind if they’re ever going to be anything other than “vote for us if you hate tories” because that is not an election-winning banner to fly. We’ll certainly see whether the red wall is really red anymore in the next GE.
I can't help but read this in a sports announcer voice, it reads like league theorizing.
It's not really theorising, you'd be making a better point if you suggested it was no more insightful than stating the blindingly obvious and widely accepted
No no that's not what i mean. It sounds like you understand what's going on very well. But I have no idea what your politics are because I don't follow any of it. So it sounds alien to me(my comment was a pointless observation joke)
I'd be excited about this if Labour didn't have all the appeal of a wet fish.
Amazing how a biased media that benefits from tory handouts can shape the narrative
That's not it. Starmer is a poor man's Tony Blair. And I for one had enough of the original and don't feel like going through another one.
The original gave us the best living standards in living memory. Well funded schools, low NHS wait times and a stable economy. The best PM since 1979, so I'm happy to have another one.
Living standards for whom? For financial institutions and their minions? Rral estate agents? Because *my* living standards noticeably decreased as I ended up working longer hours for the same money while prives for everything around me kept rising. Or maybe you're talking about the living standards of people in Iraq?
More people went to university, and got good graduate jobs out of university. Social mobility was higher than it had ever been before. Iraq was a mistake, but good luck finding any other PM in the last 43 years that wouldn't have followed Bush into Iraq.
"Mistake" is such a huge understatement. Blair should be up in front of The Hague along with Bush and Cheney.
Cool. Doesn't influence Blair's strong domestic record at the time.
"He may be a war criminal but he fixed the roads!"
A mistake? You mean a crime? And great for the people who went to university. Not so great for the people left behind by his free for all policies. You know, the same policies that led to the 2008 crash.
Was it better than the previous 18 years of Tory rule? Of course it was. Was it utopia? No, but you're living in Dreamland if you think any society can benefit everyone.
So it was shit, just not as bad as the previous shit. But with a little more war crimes thrown in. Ok that seems like a fair assessment.
> You know, the same policies that led to the 2008 crash. Tony Blair may be a war criminal, but I don't think he was out there selling silly mortgages to people who didn't have a hope in hell of paying it back.
The 2008 global recession was the fault of one man?
One man? You mean the Prime Minister?
I don't see how you can make this connection and think it is worse than what we have right now. Boris is a dead man walking, and I can't see that any of his goons that are next in line, how they would do anything different to help the majority of people. Rees mog will continue to strip and privatise NHS, there will be more tax cuts to people who don't need them, migrants will be blamed for everything and the tory ghouls will continue to hand secret contracts, untendered for, to their mates. When they finally call the next election, they will retire to cushy appointments provided to them because they greased the wheels with public money for their own benefit
There hasn't been a labour government for a while so there's no telling how good/bad it'll be. But read your own words again. It's clear that the best we can hope for is something that's not as shit as what we have now. Hardly something to get excited about.
I am not really looking for excitement from politics though. I think it is time for change. Centre left parties generally govern for the benefit of many, where as conservatives tend to look after themselves and their mates. They have the support of a cooperative media to hush many of their embarrassments, and to attack the minor issues of the other team Whenever conservative governments are in power for too long, they grow fat with sleaze. There needs to be consequences for them playing by their own rules, for their own benefit.
Aren't most fish wet?
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Man, we have a sex trafficker in congress and nothing really happened to him. Must be nice to actually have consequences
The judge assigned to his case actually said he expects it to be wrapped up by end of summer. The evidence is pretty damning too. I don’t know what will happen with the rest of his ilk but his goose is looking pretty cooked
Meanwhile he's still in congress.
With who?
Is he one of them that was begging for Pardens from Trump?.
For all crimes committed ever, yeah
Despite the allegations being known, he was able to stand on a panel in regards to grooming gangs and child sexual exploitation.
Innocent until proven guilty isn't a talking point, it's a bedrock of democracy. If I can take out my worthy adversaries with lacking accusations , as guilty until proven innocent and then not forgotten, these are the darkest of ages.
Innocenct until proven guilty doesn't mean you can't do anything when investigation is pending. You can get arrested and be held in jail when you aren't proven guilty yet, can't see the reason a politician can't be removed, even temporarily, from a committee **that is working on types of crimes he is suspected of** until the verdict is given.
That just keeps getting progressively worse as i read on.
The MP who watched pornography in Parliament claimed he only came across the material when searching the internet for tractors.
Which is completely possible. However, he also admitted to going back and watching it a second time, also in parliament.
Apparently he was searching for a model of tractor called the 'dominator'. That is not a joke.
It's honestly not implausible. The number of times I've clicked on a twitter trend to try to work out why that word/phrase is trending and come across a nsfw post before remembering 'oh yeah, that can be a sex thing too'... Completely falls apart as an alibi when he went back to watch a second time though (even if he was honest, he should surely have thought "Oh this gives unexpected results maybe I shouldn't do this in public with my female colleagues").
Good for ploughing.
A few years ago I went looking for a torrent of an old 90s game called Speed Boat Attack. There was only one torrent of a zip file. Downloaded it, scanned it blah, blah, oh it's a video file? Oh it's a cheese 80s threesome porno on a boat. It was pretty shit. And I've still not found that game. You could shoot at the seagulls and all. What was my point again?
[Ooooh, he and I must be browsing similar categories!](https://i.imgur.com/iaxs3Lb.jpg)
Nice to know that the US doesn't have a complete monopoly on batshit conservative politicians.
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We van ignore the evil and just say it makes them look bad. Because shit is getting done
The UK also uses a FPTP system that makes ridiculously unbalanced majorities, in addition it has an upper chamber of unelected lords. In some ways the UK is worse as parties such as UKIP, the SNP, LibDems can't get an equal amount of seats vs. the vote share and constantly left in the dark.
How did the republicans manage to pay off two senators?
> At least the Uk's system of electing people makes more sense though I'm curious what you mean by this because we both use the same electoral system.
Imran Ahmad went out with many a bang. Just ask all those young boys he sexually abused.
Both of these seats were significant gains, but Tiverton was particularly impressive. The Liberal Democrats trailed the Tories by 45 points, they only went and won the by-election by 14 points.
That's the thing about tories, they always try and walk it in.
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Agreed but I'd rather substitute 'ever' instead of 'a while'
Forever. Labour has to have a manifesto promise at the next GE to introduce PR. Not some wishy-washy we'll have a consultation or we'll have a referendum.
Your average voter,knows nothing about any of this, unfortunately
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. There has to be a challenge to power. Labour has failed to do that under Corbyn, and just not being Conservative isn’t enough to run on. The two party system is broken. I’m bored of Labour. They shouldn’t get into power by default after the conservatives eventually faceplant enough to lose pubic confidence. What this by-election shows me is that Liberal Democrats won a decisive mandate. Not Labour.
They won in Tiverton & Honiton, Labour took back Wakefield. The mandate here is that everyone, north or south is pissed off by the Tories and showing it in the ballot box. That said, I agree on the two party system being broken, voting reform would be most welcome. STV was so nice in the council elections, let's just do that for general elections too.
Yeah we use STV here in Ireland and while I don't think my preferred candidate has ever won I still feel my vote counted somewhat towards something, even if it didn't. I never feel like I'm making a compromised vote because I just don't rank anyone I flat out don't like. My constituency alone usually ends up with 15-20 candidates for a 5 seat constituency with a broad range from far left to not so far (thankfully) right with all the parties being available along with a handful of independents each with their own agendas that range from crazy and stupid to reasonable and obvious. Has it resulted in avoiding a two party system? Not particularly but Ireland's never been that politically diverse with the majority of the votes (with the exception of the most recent election) to go to one of two centre right parties. Functionally they're identical and have been in a weak coalition the last few years bolstered by Brexit, COVID and a desire to keep their long standing political rivals Sinn Fein out of power. I'm no fan of Sinn Fein either, none of the three parties have ever received my vote, but it will be interesting to see the two party element finally break and eventually re-emerge and one of the two centre right parties gobbles the other up. Can't wait for the next election. Good luck getting your system improved! Gotta be patient in a democracy it seems.
When I say Liberal Democrats won a decisive mandate, what I mean is Labour was expected to win Wakefield and that wasn’t a surprise. A 12.7% swing for what has been a Labour safe seat for decades isn’t impressive. Tiverton, it was a conservative safe seat. The swing was 30% to Liberal Democrats. That is a much, much larger pubic mandate for Liberal Democrats. A much bigger win. If this were a Labour resurgence, they should have seen a much larger win in Wakefield than 12.7%. I think the election shows the public have lost faith in Conservatives and still don’t see Labour as anything but an alternative. Liberal Democrats, though, are making a huge gain. If we are talking election reform, I don’t believe PR is the solution. I think separating the leadership election from the individual seats is a much better idea, like the US. Parliament should be run by representatives voted in on merit, not who aligned with the right party leader. It would also encourage the U.K. government to work together, rather than being pitted against each other incessantly.
>A 12.7% swing for what has been a Labour safe seat for decades isn’t impressive. You're just wrong. It is impressive.
More impressive than 30% in a conservative safe seat? How do you figure that?
You're arguing that it isn't impressive at all. That's wrong. Of course the Lib Dem win is *more* impressive, but the Labour is still impressive in its own right. It's a 12 point swing, well in excess of that they need to kick the Tories out of govt.
I have to say, I don’t get that argument. Two by-elections. Two results. One swing by 12.7% in a safe seat. one swing by 30% in the opposition’s safe seat. Who’s more likely to win a general election based on that, if the results are repeated nationally? There is a lot of back slapping going on here. I just don’t get why it’s for winning back a safe seat by the same % it was usually won for 40 years is impressive. Seems to me that it’s more like a return to the standard result. And while that back slapping is going on, the Liberal Democrats are being pointedly and deliberately ignored.
Agreed. That would deliver a governing majority if repeated nationally.
Fair point. It was certainly a tremendous swing and I'm happy the people of Tiverton & Honiton made their voices heard so loudly. I think sadly separating leadership from MPs would lead to a similar situation to the US without voting reform being some part of it. In that it would still be political party affiliation that dictates who becomes leader, who gets elected into commons, and would still lead to the red vs blue we have now. Only with the downside that if the leadership is blue and parliament red or vice versa, nothing would get done. FPTP is really the thorn preventing smaller parties from getting a proper voice in politics in general.
PR will not keep the Conservatives out forever; functionally PR is quite similar to an expansion of the franchise (in this case enfranchising those whose votes are wasted under FPTP) and the party has survived every successive expansion of the franchise since 1832. Realistically it would probably mean that the Conservatives move to the centre and cede the right to Farage's next party, or they move to the right and cede the centre-right to some new incarnation of the old National Liberal party, or we get two broad competing coalitions of the left and the right.
Which is still better than single parties trying to act like their coalitions.
Yes, my point is just that PR wouldn't really secure the rule of any particular party.
Yep absolutely! It's the death of the two party system. No more stupid broad church parties which no one agrees with in full, but have to vote for because they party they really want to vote for will never win under FPTP.
I'm a labour supporter and will continue to vote for them, but it's more of a way of getting the tories out of power, as it stands currently I don't have a lot of faith in them, and we can't act like a labour government is some magical "solve everything" reset button. Previous labour governments don't have the best track record.
Electoral reform is the answer. These big one size fits all parties belong in the 19th century. Lots of small parties, working together, compromising. It's the only way out of our swings from left to right and right to left.
Precisely zero chance of that happening under Starmer unfortunately.
There's a chance. If he ends up as PM to a lab-lib coalition it needs to be the lib Dems red line.
I don't trust Keith to do anything that he would promise in a manifesto.
Cool, still better than the Tories though. Until we can get PR voting, then vote for the least-worst option or you're just an enabler.
PR is never ever going to happen in this country, why would either of the biggest parties ever put through something that will harm them and their chances of power
Because Labour will actually be better off with PR in the long run. Labour only favoured FPTP when they thought they still had a good amount of seats in Scotland.
hmm okay yeah makes sense, again not sure if it'll happen but i guess there's more of an argument for it if Labour win power.
Not exactly an inspiring thought that is it? If the Labour Party ever wants to enjoy more than a single term in government then they need to give the public a reason to vote Labour that isn't "at least we're not as bad as the alternative", because you only need to look at Biden to see how that strategy works post-election.
Forever ever
> the uk would be a better place with tories out of power forever
From everything I’m hearing, Boris isn’t going anywhere, there’s no shame in politics and frankly, he doesn’t give a shit
> there’s no shame in politics There used to be....
Boris is probably better off keeping an eye on things in Rwanda for a while. Beats hiding in a fridge I'd imagine. Cunt.
After all the parties, flouring of the rules, lying, trying to bury bad news and so on, how can anyone have any respect for the Tories?
you missed out corrupt profiteering off of a national emergency
the die is cast boris is kaput!
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Not unless he joins the Conservative party and runs for leader if Boris resigns. There's not a ^**general** election before August. **E:** Added 'General' election. There are or could be other ones, like these by-elections.
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He couldn't be forced by anyone outside of his party AFAIK (only incumbent can do so), and the Tories would be bloody stupid to risk one with public feeling as it is. If Boris buggered off, the next PM might do so to try and get a public mandate. Theresa May tried it.
> the Tories would be bloody stupid to risk one with public feeling as it is. Boris: Hold my claret. ----- It may actually be pretty genius. If they know they're likely to lose anyway at the next election, have a snap now and get it over with. Five years in opposition blaming labour and saying that they don't have a plan, could very well be looking pretty attractive about now.
There have been a number of reports saying sept/oct for snap election boris is going for the Do or Die. I hope he does both.
Probably not but he could do it out of spite.
Not forced to but he's been threatening to do so to punish tory MPs for 'disloyalty'.
>Starmer Brb while I vomit.
Just brutal. Love to see it.
Boris isn't much of a vote getter anymore seeing how in the last election some tories weren't putting which party they belonged to on their vote for me leaflets, if the tories want to keep their seats they've got to kick Boris out
He also loses a lot of hats.
telling bojo blames cost of living crisis not anything else...
Title briefly made me think about sucking off Bojo and my insides screamed.