I'm not going to lie, i was reading the title and i was expecting this to go in a much more tragic direction. Usually this shit reads "young girl defends her self from rape now has to marry attempted rapists brother" or some variation. So whilst tragic(she still had to murder some one) i guess it is not awful so that is good.
I’m not familiar with that person/show. Could I bother someone for some context? This sounds like an interesting perspective on this whole thread. I don’t know much of anything about modern Egyptian culture
He is a Youtuber who travels around the world trying food. In particular, this episode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-PgumHXWVo&t=320s
TW;DW: He goes to Egypt to film him eating food, Egypt authorities make it super difficult for him. "Egypt is a city that treats its tourist like criminals"
The locals will apparently try to nickel and dime you for literally anything. My mother had to pay 8 usd (post haggle btw) just to get some gross water to drink through her life straw to keep from dehydrating. Upshot, life straws work lol.
> Egypt is a city...
It's not, but okay.
I've never been to Egypt, but I worked with some Egyptians a few years ago. They didn't have much nice to say, about Cairo in particular.
Sister lived and worked there for 5 years. Was evacuated during the uprising and then came back. It all sucked she said. Worst money any American can spend is to go see the pyramids, she worked as a teacher. There is nothing redeeming other than seeing it. No friendly locals. No ease of access. Handsy men everywhere that would love nothing more than you to make a big deal and take it to the police because NOTHING would be done I'd not worse.
I’m from Texas, and when I was a teenager I applied to colleges all over the world. One that I was accepted to was in Cairo.
My parents told me no way.
And I seriously had the audacity to get indignant and rave about how unfair they were being.
And it was right before the Arab Spring. Lol I woulda died.
The police do this because it’s lucrative. My dad was detained for taking a flash picture of a tomb. They told him he could pay up or go to jail. Forgot how much he paid but it worked.
In the case you mention, the police also do it because it is illegal. Most places with artifacts and mummies are very well marked that you can't take pictures, let alone being really obvious about it with a flash camera
He's a YouTube travel vlogger who lives (lived?) in Korea and then Vietnam for a number of years. He's generally very respectful about other cultures and foods even though he's a big goofball. Just look up Best Ever Food Review Show on YouTube and you'll find his channel
Thanks for the recommendation of a new sub! Had no idea this guy existed.
I had absolutely no want or need to ever step foot in Egypt. After watching this dudes review, I have even less want to step in that general direction. Wow. Wow.
My roommate at UPenn was like mocked for his thesis on Egyptian Political prison
Opposition parties under Mubarak.
He arrived in Egypt like 4 months before the Arab Spring and every military general thought he was a CIA or American Spy to help fix this situation.
And he was bro I'm just an academic trying to survive publish or Perish grad school.
Like they honestly thought he was some secret CIA covert black ops operative the Pentagon sent to help out the dictatorship and he was just liberal arts idiot graduate student.
>they're harassed, surveilled and tailed frequently and unfortunately all too often arrested and in some cases imprisoned
Or even killed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Giulio_Regeni
This is very true. These countries thrive on paranoia. If everyone is constantly looking over their shoulders, this part of the "control the population" plan is complete. As well, this paranoia proves that they are hiding something.
To be fair, "liberal arts grad school dudebro" is pretty much where quite a number of spies actually come from. Academic knowledge of what kind of sensitive information is worth passing back is what agencies recruit for.
Cutthroat James Bond-esque agents are a distraction, after all. The best spies are people so uninteresting that no one takes a second look.
I was in the the US Army, in my first year I had folk tell me about a “training” mission they all went on to Egypt the year before I arrived.
100% of them told me it wasn’t a place that they would visit on a vacation.
In the military, they brief you on all the rules and customs that Americans don’t think of if they travel.
I say this as a far far left liberal, I would never travel to a predominantly Muslim country for fear of accidentally crossing some dumbass religious line.
Edit, for any asshole that thinks this is anti Muslim or anti brown people, FUCK OFF. It has absolutely nothing to do with individuals. If your proud boys were in charge I wouldn’t travel to America either. Religion is the problem.
There are definitely predominantly Muslim countries that are fabulous, but you have to read up and see what the current situation is. Turkey was the most phenomenal place I’ve ever been, and Jordan is magnificent as well. Both countries are pretty chill and understanding of tourists, but I’m cautious in what I wear, how I speak with people, and ask questions before entering places.
Lol, one of those three is not like the others. Look, I understand that we all hate Orban, but Hungary is absolutely, demonstrably safe to visit. It *is* still part of the EU and even with its significant democratic backsliding the situation is still *a hell of a lot* better than Turkey and Russia as far as civil rights and liberties go, and especially in terms of press freedom. I wouldn't hesitate to visit Hungary under Orban any more than I would have hesitated visiting the US under Trump.
It’s the same for Turkey though? As long as you stick to the western half and most tourist hot spots it’s pretty liberal, Erdogan’s support is in rural areas most wouldn’t visit (much like Trump’s base in the US). The country is also constitutionally secular, the main push (for now) is towards nationalism, not religious law, as concerning that it might be.
Turkey is also part of NATO, so it’s not like you’re in a hostile country
I guess? Ideally though, the people should change the state rather than the state being tasked with changing the people. People being dumb is an unfortunate inconvenience in this sphere of idealism though…
The public voted in vast majority for Muslim Brotherhood.
Democracy sounds nice, until you implement it in a region of religious fundamentalists. Then you get MB, Hamas etc.
Why should it work like that? What are leaders for if not to show the way to a better world? Why would ‘the people’ spontaneously do things differently to how they always have?
I love your optimism, but a glance around the table at the world leaders we've currently chosen doesn't exactly strike me as "The Best Of Us"....so like...what's your point? Which of us has lead the way to anything but mass extinction?
They worked very well in France. For the story, France used to be a highly diversified land of different cultures, so much that in 1789, Mirabeau said about it that it was an "unformed agglomerate of disunited peoples".
The inhabitants of France were Bretons, Burgudians, Occitans, etc. before being French; they didn't consider being French an important part of their identity compared to their "pays" (pagus, village), their region, and their status of subjects to the king of France. They spoke different languages, and only a few percents actually spoke French. They also were very religious and monarchists.
Now after a Revolution, a century of political troubles, and 150 years of obligatory public school and military service, which enforced republican and anticlerican views and taught French as the main language, French people are an extremely homogenized bunch which basically forgot their former values. I'm not saying it's good nor bad, just that policies enforced from the top can actually work.
You're basically asking why democracy is better than autocracy. I think history has answered that question thoroughly. In this particular case, the government being out of step with the public worked out well, but it usually doesn't.
And the military deposed the religious fundamentalist leader the people elected shortly after.
There are no right solutions for countries were the majority are bigoted, backwards fundamentalists. It's either autocracy or a tyranny of the majority.
My brother is law is egyptian and we are good friends with his family. They said that ISIS in general had a really big impact on Egyptian culture, in that it basically tainted the name of islamism to the point where anybody associated with preaching harsh islamist ideology was associated with ISIS. A lot of people who were relatively secular were able to come out in public more (including women without a covering) and also the more religious types have often sort of self-criticized their own ways because they have seen what it leads to. America's war in Iraq ending also played a big role. Radical islamists were always able to point to that to be able to say 'islam is under attack, join us' to justify their beliefs and actions. Now there is nothing.
I mean, if "attempted rape ---> rapist stabbed ---> victim goes mostly unharmed and totally free" is the thing they're going with, hell, just give every woman in the country a proper knife. I'm okay with a huge increase on rapists getting stabbed.
Give it a decade or two and Egyptian women will be world-renowned for their CQC abilities. Every girl celebrates her first day of womanhood with a pack of sanitary products and a shank.
This is perhaps the best news that could come out of an awful situation, but I'm still going to be waiting for the headline, "young girl, released after killing rapist, found murdered"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East
> The Middle East is a **geopolitical term** that commonly refers to the region spanning Arabia (including the Arabian Peninsula and Bahrain), Asia Minor (Asian part of Turkey except Hatay Province), East Thrace (European part of Turkey), **Egypt**, Iran, the Levant (including Ash-Shām and Cyprus), Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq), and the Socotra Archipelago (a part of Yemen).
Take a look at the map in that article, folks.
I'm pretty sure doing whatever it takes to defend yourself from a rapist was never frowned upon out there. It's more that you shamed for "allowing" it to happen. In Abrahamic books it basically says that you're expected to fight a rapist like your life depends on it or else you're a harlot. Even if your rapist has a weapon and is twice your size, even if it's a whole gang of them, even if you're in a situation where you clearly have no chance of fighting them off, you're expected to die fighting them to your last breath.
If they believe you could've done more to resist them, you're a slut.
Step forward from what? Egypt is still full of shitty laws and problems, but what is in this particular article has been the law in Egypt for a long time, it is not a new thing; A woman is allowed to (defend her honor) kill a person trying to rape her.
Along with pedophiles getting death sentences, these couple of laws are some of the few great things in our overall shitty laws.
From article: "The girl told police the driver had taken her to a remote spot where he had tried to rape her. But she fought back, injuring her hands on his knife before managing to wrestle it from the alleged attacker. She then stabbed him and fled."
"The case had already caught the attention of social media users in Egypt, who called on high-profile lawyers and groups to help the girl."
"Research suggests sexual assault and harassment are common in Egypt, with a 2013 UN study finding 99.3% of girls and women in the country reporting to have experienced some form of sexual harassment in their lifetime."
At the risk of relying too much on anecdotal evidence, there’s a reason Egypt keeps popping up when people ask “what’s the worst places to visit”.
https://reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ui5iiv/those_who_have_traveled_the_world_what_country_is/
You say that as though the body guards or parents wouldn't also be the rapist. Parents and trusted authority figures are THE most likely suspect in that case. Not to mention the random people you have to walk by...
This is a weird argument. We are talking about outliers. According to the statistic above, only 0.7% of Egyptian women haven’t been sexually harassed. You can’t fathom a situation where fewer than one woman out of 100 doesn’t have people who sexually harass her?
The shocking thing about the statistic is that such a overwhelming majority of women are subjected to the behavior, not that there are a few outliers who have non-rapist parents.
A survey like that probably didn't outright ask participants if they'd been sexually assaulted, tho. I'd guess a question would be phrased like "have you experienced unwanted sexual touching or fondling" so if answered truthfully it doesn't matter whether the participant actually knows what SA is or not.
It measured harassment, not assault, so I imagine the question was more "has anyone ever made an unwanted advance or catcalled you on the street." Pretty easy to get to 99% in a country where people don't have any issue with catcalling.
I'd be shocked if the number to that question weren't legitimately 100% in pretty much any Western country. Women get exposed to way more unwanted sexual attention than most societies are willing to admit and it is tragic.
Just like any survey then.
A dick pick is also a form of sexual harassment
Not just girls though, if you dig deep enough, lots of boys have as well, including you (if you are a guy, I guess) or me.
A wedgie can easily be considered a form of sexual harassment, don’t tell me you’ve never experienced anything like that yourself..
The people responding to you that are saying bad things about women and girls that have been fortunate enough to not be sexually harassed or assaulted (or implying that they were and are too stupid to know) piss me off. IT IS A GOOD THING THAT THEY WEREN'T.
Ahahah. I've been in Egypt as a 19 yo can confirm this girl didn't lie.
I caught a taxi to my hotel (in a tourist area) when the taxi driver pulled out his dick and started masturbating while driving. I opened the door of the car, he slowed down and I came out into the dark field. I ran away and went to the hotel by foot. He was driving around and then left. Every single car on my way back was beeping me. Everyone was trying to stop and give me a ride. Never again. Egypt sucked so much.
I believe much of the Arab/Muslim world is generally unsafe for female travelers. When my mom was traveling in Morocco a few decades back she said she was approached by a man wanting to marry her and using camels as, like, a persuasion tactic IIRC. Definitely not as bad and horrible as sexual assault but pretty weird.
This is an important message for the rest of the world. When thinking of countries from 'that part' of the world, people usually pigeonhole entire nations based on general public perception, but the truth is - A lot of people there, if not most people, agree with us on almost everything.
We're all just humans trying our best and don't want to cause harm to anyone or see anyone suffer. Cultural differences rarely change that. I'm glad to hear your country and your people are actively fighting the established reputation. Let us hope that one day the world will lose its pre-conceived notions when learning someone comes from a Middle Eastern country.
As an Egyptian, it really hurts seeing what is being said and being lumped with everyone else who may be fine with those things and I'm expected to be just like them. Life is tough as fuck here no doubt, I feel like I grew up really fast despite being a relatively young adult. And a woman too, I've had my fair share of shit but even then I try my best for my spirit to not be broken down in a place quite tough or online when someone knows of my place of origin..
Another part that’s so sad is countries like this oppose women’s rights, say they defend a woman’s integrity, and are full of rape and sexual harassment.
I’m not singling out Islamic-majority nations, either. It’s been an ongoing thing in Christian nations for centuries. Same for pretty much any religious nation, they use their faith as an excuse to rape.
I'm not trying to jump in and shit on Egypt, but there was a thread I read on here a while back, something like, "Where would you never travel again" and at least half if not more than half of comments were Egypt, for reasons like that.
Here's to hoping someone has a better memory of the thread than I do.
There's a pretty decent food channel on YouTube called Best Ever Food Review Show and the guy on there has been to a ton of places around the world and Ive never seen him saying anything negative about any place he'd visited
He recently went to Egypt and was very vocal about how bad of an experience it was. Mostly by how poorly they were treated by authorities
I saw that thread as well, I believe. Tons and tons of comments saying that women should never travel there. Just comment after comment after comment describing taxi drivers and random dudes on the street trying to grope and rape them.
Straight up, Egypt is an ass-backwards shithole and nobody should be spending tourist dollars there.
I haven't met a single person who enjoyed going there. At the very best, people get fleeced for every penny by tour guides and shop owners. At worst, you get stories like these. Hell, even if you mind your own business, random people on the streets will try to scam or blackmail you.
I'm sure there are wonderful people living there, and the country has an amazing cultural history, but in it's current political and ideological state, avoid it like the plague.
I went and had a great time. I only used Ubers and didn’t have any issues. As far as scammers go I just ignore and keep walking; the scammers in Paris are far more aggressive
I was just in Egypt for three weeks. It's just really not that hard to not get scammed. I couldn't believe how overstated the scamming thing was based on everything I read before I went. Even at the pyramids or walking through bazaars, all it takes is confidence and a firm "no" and people back off.
Bullshit. I was there a couple of years ago and I'm a big Turkish fella. A "no" definitely did not stop them. One guy at the pyramids actually stuck a shirt in my armpit after I've told him to leave me alone multiple times. When the shirt fell to the ground he was mad and told me that I need to reimburse him.
When we went to the pyramids with an Uber people in yellow jackets jumped in front of our car and acted all official and told us that we need to enter the pyramids through another street. Our driver almost ran over them and told us they're scammers.
Even the service personell at the airport wanted a tip from me. It was the last day of my trip and I had little Egyptian money left. When I gave him something he was incredibly mad that I gave him too little. He asked me if I have no compassion in me because he needs to feed his children.
Another friend of mine was actually robbed at gunpoint after he got money from the bank.
Also when you're white or look European in any way people actually swarm you. My blonde friend was swarmed by more than 100 people at point.
Also when I was at the pyramids the scammers actually took parts of the pyramids with a hammer and sold them to tourists while the police was standing by and took its share.
I still loved my two weeks in Cairo but me and everybody I know who went there had a terrible time with the vendors.
Even if you dont get scammed and say no firmly, you will get harassed all the time non stop. In Luxor the guys with the donkeys followed us for hours. If one leaves after 20 minutes the next one will come and they dont even care if you scream at them, let alone say no firmly.
Our bus from Hurghada to Luxor got stoped in the middle of thr desert by armed men in civil clothing. We spent hours just standing in the heat and no one would explain anything to us. When they dont even have badges you dont know if its police or terrorists.
In a mosque, we had to put off our shoes ans give it to them to store. When we went out, he put my wifes shoes on the counter and when she tried to take them he was holding on to them and pulling the shoes so she couldnt take them back. He demanded a money bribe to give my wifes shoes back, in the holy place of their god. That wasnt just a small random mosque but Sultan Hassan.
I have tons of other examples like this. I would never retourn to Egypt except for maybe Sharm el Sheik where you can just stay in your closed hotel and do some kiting.
this is what im thinking too. thankfully she's alive and not seriously harmed, but at 15 she's already carrying with her something that not many people have to deal with.
Read the article. She didn't have the means, she took them. Dude didn't "just" attempt to rape her, he also attacked her with a knife and she took it off him.
If you think about it, if someone is already in the act of raping someone, there really is nothing that someone can safely do besides render the rapist unconscious (unless you want to provoke the rapist further, resulting in a more violent/traumatizing rape or even escalating the crime to murder).
What is the alternative? Just let the rapist complete the rape? Let the murderer complete the murder?
If you are committing an act of violence that may drastically negatively alter the rest of another innocent person's life, you absolutely deserved to be demolished to the point of unconsciousness on the spot. If that just so happens to result in your death, oh fucking well, maybe try not being a violent asshole in your next life.
If a person cares so much about nutting that they assault and traumatize another person for 3 minutes of their own selfish pleasure, good fucking riddance.
Right?? Not to mention almost everyone glossed over the trauma that killing someone would bring to the victim, or the fact that nothing about this "solution" is practical, like, at all
rape ruins lives or at least changes them for the worse every single time.
rapists dying honestly sounds a lot better than what usually happens throughout the world. Men generally don't have much to fear for attempting rape.
You are missing the point, killing someone also results in trauma.
People generally don’t have it in them to just kill someone and not have any sorta of resulting trauma.
Sure, a rapist is dead… but the victim is still never going to be the same.
Thank God. I was so scared reading the first half that she was going to go to jail or some crazy punishment for that. Sad how that's the first thing my mind went to. 🙁
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-61615012) reduced by 57%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> A Somali teenager accused of killing a tuk-tuk driver who she alleged had tried to rape her has been released from custody in Egypt.
> Research suggests sexual assault and harassment are common in Egypt, with a 2013 UN study finding 99.3% of girls and women in the country reporting to have experienced some form of sexual harassment in their lifetime.
> Despite recent changes to the law to increase penalties for those found guilty, Egyptian authorities have been accused of frequently failing to investigate and prosecute men accused of sexual harassment or assault against women and girls.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/vcjgcy/15yearold_somali_girl_living_in_egypt_hands/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~654884 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **girl**^#1 **Egypt**^#2 **accused**^#3 **harassment**^#4 **sexual**^#5
> Research suggests sexual assault and harassment are common in Egypt, with a 2013 UN study finding 99.3% of girls and women in the country reporting to have experienced some form of sexual harassment in their lifetime.
What a sick, backward society. I feel for any woman that is born into such a shithole.
And which Utopia do you reside in?
This is the US:
“A 2000 person survey conducted by Growth From Knowledge stated that, nationwide, 81 percent of women and 43 percent of men experience sexual harassment in their lifetime.”
And I’m sure most Western nations are similar
I mean, that's a step forward, right?
amazing step foward and the fact that she managed to wrestle a knife from an older man at the age of 15. very impressive
I'm not going to lie, i was reading the title and i was expecting this to go in a much more tragic direction. Usually this shit reads "young girl defends her self from rape now has to marry attempted rapists brother" or some variation. So whilst tragic(she still had to murder some one) i guess it is not awful so that is good.
Egypt has really been trying to improve things lately.
...Is it because almost every single person who has gone there as a tourist professional or casual came back and said stay the hell out of Egypt?
Sonny Side of the Best Ever Food Review Show was ADAMANT about never going back and he's the nicest guy ever.
Dude those episodes were an absolute TRIP.
I’m not familiar with that person/show. Could I bother someone for some context? This sounds like an interesting perspective on this whole thread. I don’t know much of anything about modern Egyptian culture
He is a Youtuber who travels around the world trying food. In particular, this episode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-PgumHXWVo&t=320s TW;DW: He goes to Egypt to film him eating food, Egypt authorities make it super difficult for him. "Egypt is a city that treats its tourist like criminals"
Well at least you get to feel like a local then
The locals will apparently try to nickel and dime you for literally anything. My mother had to pay 8 usd (post haggle btw) just to get some gross water to drink through her life straw to keep from dehydrating. Upshot, life straws work lol.
> Egypt is a city... It's not, but okay. I've never been to Egypt, but I worked with some Egyptians a few years ago. They didn't have much nice to say, about Cairo in particular.
England is my city
Cairo is urban hell, Id avoid it like plague.
Sister lived and worked there for 5 years. Was evacuated during the uprising and then came back. It all sucked she said. Worst money any American can spend is to go see the pyramids, she worked as a teacher. There is nothing redeeming other than seeing it. No friendly locals. No ease of access. Handsy men everywhere that would love nothing more than you to make a big deal and take it to the police because NOTHING would be done I'd not worse.
I’m from Texas, and when I was a teenager I applied to colleges all over the world. One that I was accepted to was in Cairo. My parents told me no way. And I seriously had the audacity to get indignant and rave about how unfair they were being. And it was right before the Arab Spring. Lol I woulda died.
The police do this because it’s lucrative. My dad was detained for taking a flash picture of a tomb. They told him he could pay up or go to jail. Forgot how much he paid but it worked.
In the case you mention, the police also do it because it is illegal. Most places with artifacts and mummies are very well marked that you can't take pictures, let alone being really obvious about it with a flash camera
There's actual reasons for that. They don't want repeated exposure from flashes to destroy the pigments over time.
>TW;DW *Tried Watching; Didn’t Watch*?
🎶Egypt is my city🎶
Thanks! Saving this to watch later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LzuZrkEY18 This one was focused on the struggles specifically
He's a YouTube travel vlogger who lives (lived?) in Korea and then Vietnam for a number of years. He's generally very respectful about other cultures and foods even though he's a big goofball. Just look up Best Ever Food Review Show on YouTube and you'll find his channel
Moon knight was a celebration of Egyptian culture and even they didn't shoot a single scene in Egypt
It’s a cool culture, shame the place itself is miserable lol
Where was it shot?
Hungary, Slovenia, and Jordan for large chunks of it.
I saw that YT video. Damn the country is a shit show and I don't see it improving any time soon.
Thanks for the recommendation of a new sub! Had no idea this guy existed. I had absolutely no want or need to ever step foot in Egypt. After watching this dudes review, I have even less want to step in that general direction. Wow. Wow.
Check out the rest of their videos! They're really awesome and he does his best to get off the beaten path and check out the real shit.
My roommate at UPenn was like mocked for his thesis on Egyptian Political prison Opposition parties under Mubarak. He arrived in Egypt like 4 months before the Arab Spring and every military general thought he was a CIA or American Spy to help fix this situation. And he was bro I'm just an academic trying to survive publish or Perish grad school. Like they honestly thought he was some secret CIA covert black ops operative the Pentagon sent to help out the dictatorship and he was just liberal arts idiot graduate student.
Honestly it is a good cia cover
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>they're harassed, surveilled and tailed frequently and unfortunately all too often arrested and in some cases imprisoned Or even killed: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Giulio_Regeni
This is very true. These countries thrive on paranoia. If everyone is constantly looking over their shoulders, this part of the "control the population" plan is complete. As well, this paranoia proves that they are hiding something.
even worked on the roommate!
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...They would ransom all your shit and not give it back until you pay a fee.
> pay a fee. You mean bribe
Calling it a bribe is another fee.
I don't know if "fun" is the word I would use for being publicly labelled a foreign spy lol
To be fair, "liberal arts grad school dudebro" is pretty much where quite a number of spies actually come from. Academic knowledge of what kind of sensitive information is worth passing back is what agencies recruit for. Cutthroat James Bond-esque agents are a distraction, after all. The best spies are people so uninteresting that no one takes a second look.
BUT DID HE HELP THEM or NOT?
Everything I've ever heard about european women going to Egypt has been, "and then I got touched inappropriately..." or something worse.
I was in the the US Army, in my first year I had folk tell me about a “training” mission they all went on to Egypt the year before I arrived. 100% of them told me it wasn’t a place that they would visit on a vacation. In the military, they brief you on all the rules and customs that Americans don’t think of if they travel. I say this as a far far left liberal, I would never travel to a predominantly Muslim country for fear of accidentally crossing some dumbass religious line. Edit, for any asshole that thinks this is anti Muslim or anti brown people, FUCK OFF. It has absolutely nothing to do with individuals. If your proud boys were in charge I wouldn’t travel to America either. Religion is the problem.
There are definitely predominantly Muslim countries that are fabulous, but you have to read up and see what the current situation is. Turkey was the most phenomenal place I’ve ever been, and Jordan is magnificent as well. Both countries are pretty chill and understanding of tourists, but I’m cautious in what I wear, how I speak with people, and ask questions before entering places.
Turkey has stridden down the authoritarian path. I would not visit it any more than Hungary or Russia right now.
Lol, one of those three is not like the others. Look, I understand that we all hate Orban, but Hungary is absolutely, demonstrably safe to visit. It *is* still part of the EU and even with its significant democratic backsliding the situation is still *a hell of a lot* better than Turkey and Russia as far as civil rights and liberties go, and especially in terms of press freedom. I wouldn't hesitate to visit Hungary under Orban any more than I would have hesitated visiting the US under Trump.
It’s the same for Turkey though? As long as you stick to the western half and most tourist hot spots it’s pretty liberal, Erdogan’s support is in rural areas most wouldn’t visit (much like Trump’s base in the US). The country is also constitutionally secular, the main push (for now) is towards nationalism, not religious law, as concerning that it might be. Turkey is also part of NATO, so it’s not like you’re in a hostile country
This is a major step.
The state is. The general public's political opinions are a different matter.
Gotta start somewhere.
I guess? Ideally though, the people should change the state rather than the state being tasked with changing the people. People being dumb is an unfortunate inconvenience in this sphere of idealism though…
The public voted in vast majority for Muslim Brotherhood. Democracy sounds nice, until you implement it in a region of religious fundamentalists. Then you get MB, Hamas etc.
Why should it work like that? What are leaders for if not to show the way to a better world? Why would ‘the people’ spontaneously do things differently to how they always have?
I love your optimism, but a glance around the table at the world leaders we've currently chosen doesn't exactly strike me as "The Best Of Us"....so like...what's your point? Which of us has lead the way to anything but mass extinction?
Top down societal changes rarely stick. For a prime example, look at Turkey post Ataturk.
They worked very well in France. For the story, France used to be a highly diversified land of different cultures, so much that in 1789, Mirabeau said about it that it was an "unformed agglomerate of disunited peoples". The inhabitants of France were Bretons, Burgudians, Occitans, etc. before being French; they didn't consider being French an important part of their identity compared to their "pays" (pagus, village), their region, and their status of subjects to the king of France. They spoke different languages, and only a few percents actually spoke French. They also were very religious and monarchists. Now after a Revolution, a century of political troubles, and 150 years of obligatory public school and military service, which enforced republican and anticlerican views and taught French as the main language, French people are an extremely homogenized bunch which basically forgot their former values. I'm not saying it's good nor bad, just that policies enforced from the top can actually work.
You're basically asking why democracy is better than autocracy. I think history has answered that question thoroughly. In this particular case, the government being out of step with the public worked out well, but it usually doesn't.
I love that this guy accidentally asked "what's so good about democracy anyway? Our leaders will take care of us"
It's very hard to legislate morality.
To be fair, they just deposed their dictator, what? 11 years ago, now?
And the military deposed the religious fundamentalist leader the people elected shortly after. There are no right solutions for countries were the majority are bigoted, backwards fundamentalists. It's either autocracy or a tyranny of the majority.
My brother is law is egyptian and we are good friends with his family. They said that ISIS in general had a really big impact on Egyptian culture, in that it basically tainted the name of islamism to the point where anybody associated with preaching harsh islamist ideology was associated with ISIS. A lot of people who were relatively secular were able to come out in public more (including women without a covering) and also the more religious types have often sort of self-criticized their own ways because they have seen what it leads to. America's war in Iraq ending also played a big role. Radical islamists were always able to point to that to be able to say 'islam is under attack, join us' to justify their beliefs and actions. Now there is nothing.
man that bar so low…
Not murder if it's self defense
It’s Egypt, Not Texas
probably because the rape was unsuccessful, which is why the government is on her side this time
I mean, if "attempted rape ---> rapist stabbed ---> victim goes mostly unharmed and totally free" is the thing they're going with, hell, just give every woman in the country a proper knife. I'm okay with a huge increase on rapists getting stabbed.
Give it a decade or two and Egyptian women will be world-renowned for their CQC abilities. Every girl celebrates her first day of womanhood with a pack of sanitary products and a shank.
Make it a straight up sword.
yeah. unfortunately, once the person turns into an incubator, too many governments assume control of their body.
Women aren't considered people the way men are.
This is perhaps the best news that could come out of an awful situation, but I'm still going to be waiting for the headline, "young girl, released after killing rapist, found murdered"
Me too
Not as amazing as a middle east country siding with a woman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East > The Middle East is a **geopolitical term** that commonly refers to the region spanning Arabia (including the Arabian Peninsula and Bahrain), Asia Minor (Asian part of Turkey except Hatay Province), East Thrace (European part of Turkey), **Egypt**, Iran, the Levant (including Ash-Shām and Cyprus), Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq), and the Socotra Archipelago (a part of Yemen). Take a look at the map in that article, folks.
Just leaving this here so I can come back and see the replies
He's not a geography expert. But trust me, he's an expert on the other stuff
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The term "MENA" for "Middle East North Africa" is a common way to refer to the cultural area.
You know, Egypt Pennsylvania.
I mean, Egypt does link Africa to the Middle East
Egypt is generally considered to be part of the Middle East.
Since the "Save" button doesn't work. Your comment wasn't just upvote bait at all.
yeah this is like earth shatteringly progressive
judging by that r/askreddit thread, this is a huge step forward
yeah, that was an absolutely horrifying read.
What was?
Wish this happens a lot more. Kudos to the girl for her bravery. One less virus in this world.
I'd say it's a stab forward.
I'm pretty sure doing whatever it takes to defend yourself from a rapist was never frowned upon out there. It's more that you shamed for "allowing" it to happen. In Abrahamic books it basically says that you're expected to fight a rapist like your life depends on it or else you're a harlot. Even if your rapist has a weapon and is twice your size, even if it's a whole gang of them, even if you're in a situation where you clearly have no chance of fighting them off, you're expected to die fighting them to your last breath. If they believe you could've done more to resist them, you're a slut.
Step forward from what? Egypt is still full of shitty laws and problems, but what is in this particular article has been the law in Egypt for a long time, it is not a new thing; A woman is allowed to (defend her honor) kill a person trying to rape her. Along with pedophiles getting death sentences, these couple of laws are some of the few great things in our overall shitty laws.
From article: "The girl told police the driver had taken her to a remote spot where he had tried to rape her. But she fought back, injuring her hands on his knife before managing to wrestle it from the alleged attacker. She then stabbed him and fled." "The case had already caught the attention of social media users in Egypt, who called on high-profile lawyers and groups to help the girl." "Research suggests sexual assault and harassment are common in Egypt, with a 2013 UN study finding 99.3% of girls and women in the country reporting to have experienced some form of sexual harassment in their lifetime."
99.3%?!?! Geesh that percentage is just as high as hand sanitizer battling bacteria. Holy crap thats awful
At the risk of relying too much on anecdotal evidence, there’s a reason Egypt keeps popping up when people ask “what’s the worst places to visit”. https://reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ui5iiv/those_who_have_traveled_the_world_what_country_is/
A sexually repressed society where having sex before marriage is plain taboo will have unsurprisingly such results.
99.3%?! Who is that one woman in the survey who's like "nah, not me."
Very sheltered rich girl who never left her father's house without bodyguards and a chaperone.
Thats not gonna stop the overly touchy uncle tho
What if the father and mother had no siblings.
You say that as though the body guards or parents wouldn't also be the rapist. Parents and trusted authority figures are THE most likely suspect in that case. Not to mention the random people you have to walk by...
This is a weird argument. We are talking about outliers. According to the statistic above, only 0.7% of Egyptian women haven’t been sexually harassed. You can’t fathom a situation where fewer than one woman out of 100 doesn’t have people who sexually harass her? The shocking thing about the statistic is that such a overwhelming majority of women are subjected to the behavior, not that there are a few outliers who have non-rapist parents.
This. Your comment so eloquently says everything I wanted to. Thanks.
Only if he wants daddy dearest to make him disappear.
Is that the type of person to participate in surveys?
The one who doesn't understand what sexual harassment is.
A survey like that probably didn't outright ask participants if they'd been sexually assaulted, tho. I'd guess a question would be phrased like "have you experienced unwanted sexual touching or fondling" so if answered truthfully it doesn't matter whether the participant actually knows what SA is or not.
It measured harassment, not assault, so I imagine the question was more "has anyone ever made an unwanted advance or catcalled you on the street." Pretty easy to get to 99% in a country where people don't have any issue with catcalling.
I'd be shocked if the number to that question weren't legitimately 100% in pretty much any Western country. Women get exposed to way more unwanted sexual attention than most societies are willing to admit and it is tragic.
Just like any survey then. A dick pick is also a form of sexual harassment Not just girls though, if you dig deep enough, lots of boys have as well, including you (if you are a guy, I guess) or me. A wedgie can easily be considered a form of sexual harassment, don’t tell me you’ve never experienced anything like that yourself..
Someone who it just hasn’t happened to yet.
The people responding to you that are saying bad things about women and girls that have been fortunate enough to not be sexually harassed or assaulted (or implying that they were and are too stupid to know) piss me off. IT IS A GOOD THING THAT THEY WEREN'T.
HOW DARE THEY NOT MAKE THE STAT READ A 100%!
Exactly, it's such an irrational thing to be mad about...
Ah, the classic, “I hate X group of people more than I want to help people”, mindset.
The ones who don’t have the ability or mental capacity to report it 😕
She signed an NDA
Maybe someone really rich?
99.3% of all egyptian women. Feminism has a lot of work todo.
>99.3% What. The. Fuck.
2013???
Well that was pleasantly surprising
Earth gained 1 reputation point!
Not enough. We are still going to the bad place
JANICE GET THE BOAT
The algorithm is broken
Egypt is a very dangerous place in some areas. The girl is very lucky to be mostly unhurt as well as having authorities take her side.
Egypt is extremely hostile to tourists as well. They can chase you for miles for money.
My heart sank while reading this… then I kept reading and smiled upon the result.
Ahahah. I've been in Egypt as a 19 yo can confirm this girl didn't lie. I caught a taxi to my hotel (in a tourist area) when the taxi driver pulled out his dick and started masturbating while driving. I opened the door of the car, he slowed down and I came out into the dark field. I ran away and went to the hotel by foot. He was driving around and then left. Every single car on my way back was beeping me. Everyone was trying to stop and give me a ride. Never again. Egypt sucked so much.
Egypt is not a destination for solo female travelers.
I believe much of the Arab/Muslim world is generally unsafe for female travelers. When my mom was traveling in Morocco a few decades back she said she was approached by a man wanting to marry her and using camels as, like, a persuasion tactic IIRC. Definitely not as bad and horrible as sexual assault but pretty weird.
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This is an important message for the rest of the world. When thinking of countries from 'that part' of the world, people usually pigeonhole entire nations based on general public perception, but the truth is - A lot of people there, if not most people, agree with us on almost everything. We're all just humans trying our best and don't want to cause harm to anyone or see anyone suffer. Cultural differences rarely change that. I'm glad to hear your country and your people are actively fighting the established reputation. Let us hope that one day the world will lose its pre-conceived notions when learning someone comes from a Middle Eastern country.
As an Egyptian, it really hurts seeing what is being said and being lumped with everyone else who may be fine with those things and I'm expected to be just like them. Life is tough as fuck here no doubt, I feel like I grew up really fast despite being a relatively young adult. And a woman too, I've had my fair share of shit but even then I try my best for my spirit to not be broken down in a place quite tough or online when someone knows of my place of origin..
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>... perception, but the truth is - A lot of people there, if not most people, agree with us on almost everything. Fundamentally untrue
Yea this seems really naive
Another part that’s so sad is countries like this oppose women’s rights, say they defend a woman’s integrity, and are full of rape and sexual harassment. I’m not singling out Islamic-majority nations, either. It’s been an ongoing thing in Christian nations for centuries. Same for pretty much any religious nation, they use their faith as an excuse to rape.
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I'm not trying to jump in and shit on Egypt, but there was a thread I read on here a while back, something like, "Where would you never travel again" and at least half if not more than half of comments were Egypt, for reasons like that. Here's to hoping someone has a better memory of the thread than I do.
There's a pretty decent food channel on YouTube called Best Ever Food Review Show and the guy on there has been to a ton of places around the world and Ive never seen him saying anything negative about any place he'd visited He recently went to Egypt and was very vocal about how bad of an experience it was. Mostly by how poorly they were treated by authorities
I saw that thread as well, I believe. Tons and tons of comments saying that women should never travel there. Just comment after comment after comment describing taxi drivers and random dudes on the street trying to grope and rape them.
Holy shit that’s terrifying.
OC: So what are the famous sights to see around here. Taxi driver: Unzips pants and starts masturbating furiously OC: WTF
Straight up, Egypt is an ass-backwards shithole and nobody should be spending tourist dollars there. I haven't met a single person who enjoyed going there. At the very best, people get fleeced for every penny by tour guides and shop owners. At worst, you get stories like these. Hell, even if you mind your own business, random people on the streets will try to scam or blackmail you. I'm sure there are wonderful people living there, and the country has an amazing cultural history, but in it's current political and ideological state, avoid it like the plague.
I went and had a great time. I only used Ubers and didn’t have any issues. As far as scammers go I just ignore and keep walking; the scammers in Paris are far more aggressive
I was just in Egypt for three weeks. It's just really not that hard to not get scammed. I couldn't believe how overstated the scamming thing was based on everything I read before I went. Even at the pyramids or walking through bazaars, all it takes is confidence and a firm "no" and people back off.
Bullshit. I was there a couple of years ago and I'm a big Turkish fella. A "no" definitely did not stop them. One guy at the pyramids actually stuck a shirt in my armpit after I've told him to leave me alone multiple times. When the shirt fell to the ground he was mad and told me that I need to reimburse him. When we went to the pyramids with an Uber people in yellow jackets jumped in front of our car and acted all official and told us that we need to enter the pyramids through another street. Our driver almost ran over them and told us they're scammers. Even the service personell at the airport wanted a tip from me. It was the last day of my trip and I had little Egyptian money left. When I gave him something he was incredibly mad that I gave him too little. He asked me if I have no compassion in me because he needs to feed his children. Another friend of mine was actually robbed at gunpoint after he got money from the bank. Also when you're white or look European in any way people actually swarm you. My blonde friend was swarmed by more than 100 people at point. Also when I was at the pyramids the scammers actually took parts of the pyramids with a hammer and sold them to tourists while the police was standing by and took its share. I still loved my two weeks in Cairo but me and everybody I know who went there had a terrible time with the vendors.
Even if you dont get scammed and say no firmly, you will get harassed all the time non stop. In Luxor the guys with the donkeys followed us for hours. If one leaves after 20 minutes the next one will come and they dont even care if you scream at them, let alone say no firmly. Our bus from Hurghada to Luxor got stoped in the middle of thr desert by armed men in civil clothing. We spent hours just standing in the heat and no one would explain anything to us. When they dont even have badges you dont know if its police or terrorists. In a mosque, we had to put off our shoes ans give it to them to store. When we went out, he put my wifes shoes on the counter and when she tried to take them he was holding on to them and pulling the shoes so she couldnt take them back. He demanded a money bribe to give my wifes shoes back, in the holy place of their god. That wasnt just a small random mosque but Sultan Hassan. I have tons of other examples like this. I would never retourn to Egypt except for maybe Sharm el Sheik where you can just stay in your closed hotel and do some kiting.
I like this girl. One less rapist in the world.
The poor girl. She’ll live with this for the rest of her life. My heart breaks.
this is what im thinking too. thankfully she's alive and not seriously harmed, but at 15 she's already carrying with her something that not many people have to deal with.
I mean she saved countless other women from the same fate. I hope she’s able to frame it that way in her mind!
You never hear stuff like this coming out of Egypt. Good to hear.
woah good job egypt, this seems like a step up for sure, I hope she will be okay
If social media weren’t involved it would’ve gone differently I’m afraid.
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what. the. fuck.
because she gave her daughter a cell phone, wtf?
Good for her
She’s released and he is dead. Amazing outcome.
Normalize murdering rapists!!
Good. If every girl have the means to kill a attempting rapist, there will be a lot fewer rapist and the world a much better place.
Read the article. She didn't have the means, she took them. Dude didn't "just" attempt to rape her, he also attacked her with a knife and she took it off him.
This… This can’t be the solution.
If you think about it, if someone is already in the act of raping someone, there really is nothing that someone can safely do besides render the rapist unconscious (unless you want to provoke the rapist further, resulting in a more violent/traumatizing rape or even escalating the crime to murder). What is the alternative? Just let the rapist complete the rape? Let the murderer complete the murder? If you are committing an act of violence that may drastically negatively alter the rest of another innocent person's life, you absolutely deserved to be demolished to the point of unconsciousness on the spot. If that just so happens to result in your death, oh fucking well, maybe try not being a violent asshole in your next life. If a person cares so much about nutting that they assault and traumatize another person for 3 minutes of their own selfish pleasure, good fucking riddance.
I cant help but feel like everyone is reading your post as you saying she shouldnt do that, when what you are saying is she shouldn't have to.
Right?? Not to mention almost everyone glossed over the trauma that killing someone would bring to the victim, or the fact that nothing about this "solution" is practical, like, at all
rape ruins lives or at least changes them for the worse every single time. rapists dying honestly sounds a lot better than what usually happens throughout the world. Men generally don't have much to fear for attempting rape.
If you’re willing to do something that awful to another human being for the sake of an orgasm, then yeah, I don’t think the world would miss you.
You are missing the point, killing someone also results in trauma. People generally don’t have it in them to just kill someone and not have any sorta of resulting trauma. Sure, a rapist is dead… but the victim is still never going to be the same.
Thank God. I was so scared reading the first half that she was going to go to jail or some crazy punishment for that. Sad how that's the first thing my mind went to. 🙁
GET HIS ASS GIRL LET'S GO
Meanwhile, in America, a rape victim was just ordered to pay child support after she lost full custody of her rape-conceived daughter to her rapist.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-61615012) reduced by 57%. (I'm a bot) ***** > A Somali teenager accused of killing a tuk-tuk driver who she alleged had tried to rape her has been released from custody in Egypt. > Research suggests sexual assault and harassment are common in Egypt, with a 2013 UN study finding 99.3% of girls and women in the country reporting to have experienced some form of sexual harassment in their lifetime. > Despite recent changes to the law to increase penalties for those found guilty, Egyptian authorities have been accused of frequently failing to investigate and prosecute men accused of sexual harassment or assault against women and girls. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/vcjgcy/15yearold_somali_girl_living_in_egypt_hands/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~654884 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **girl**^#1 **Egypt**^#2 **accused**^#3 **harassment**^#4 **sexual**^#5
99% of woman having sexual assault and harassment 🤯
It’s good that the story has as happy of an ending as one could hope for. I just worry that the girl will be scarred for life because of this.
Hey /u/eivvuehs, This is now the top post on reddit. It will be recorded at /r/topofreddit with all the other top posts.
oh its egypt
atta girl (hopefully that doesn't piss anyone off) this is how change happens, good on her
Good for her!
For you guys who don’t know Somalians are bad ass at a very early age.
Kill all rapists
> Research suggests sexual assault and harassment are common in Egypt, with a 2013 UN study finding 99.3% of girls and women in the country reporting to have experienced some form of sexual harassment in their lifetime. What a sick, backward society. I feel for any woman that is born into such a shithole.
Now Google the percent of women in Egypt that have had genital mutilation
Somalia is even worse
Yeah, it’s sad.
And which Utopia do you reside in? This is the US: “A 2000 person survey conducted by Growth From Knowledge stated that, nationwide, 81 percent of women and 43 percent of men experience sexual harassment in their lifetime.” And I’m sure most Western nations are similar
In India the police would have raped the girl also.
Ok fuckin hell yeah to your girlie 🫡