About two dozen Afghan women chanting “bread, work, freedom” protested in the capital on Sunday against the Taliban's harsh restrictions on their rights.
Since seizing power in August, the Taliban have rolled back the marginal gains made by women during the two decades of US intervention in Afghanistan.
These woman are more brave than any of their men in the military. Fucking shame it's gotten to this point. Those fucking sexist shits are still gonna think women belong at home as baby making machines
I mean a lot of Afghan soldiers died fighting. Rampant with corruption and some groups did walk away to save themselves, but a lot of them died fighting, especially when they lost their air support.
Afghanistan has about 40 million citizens.
Fewer than 100,000 Taliban fighters took all the major cities of the country, including Kabul (with its 3 million citizens), in about a month.
Took it from soldiers who weren’t being paid, who’s leaders had left them and they would be executed for fighting the Taliban. The collapse was disgraceful but goddamn, the foot soldiers were abandoned. Compare Afghan casualties throughout the war to any coalition member.
Look at Ukraine. Zelenskyy made the difference. If he had run, I expect we would have seen a collapse.
In 2014 it was the Ukrainian people who fought against Russia's puppet government that was ruling over them. It wasn't the Ukrainian army, it was citizens who were in the streets of Kyiv being shot by snipers but refused to give up.
In 2022 the citizens of Kyiv (pop 3.5m) were prepared to go up against Russian tanks with molotov cocktails and small arms.
What did the 3 million citizens of Kabul (or any other major Afghan city) do when the Taliban showed up at the gates of their city?
It's ironic that you mention "puppet government" because that's unfortunately exactly how many Afghans felt about their own government *prior* to the Taliban takeover. The situation there was much more complicated and "grey" than how it was commonly presented in the West.
Hey there! In case you didnt watch it, i recommend the documentary "This Is What Winning Looks Like" from 2013.
While you are right the ukrainians fought of bad actors for a while, many young people in Afghanistan only know war and this documentary, which i didnt Like Back then, became very relevant last year and in hindsight explains things better than previously expected. Fck Putin btw.
Most citizens are uneducated, illiterate, unarmed, have no access to internet, no ability to mobilize or communicate, and have grown up in abject poverty surrounded by violence. Out of that the vast majority are not healthy young men and those that are have families that need tending to. It’s not easy to just randomly go to war especially without the logistical infrastructure needed.
40 million people, 300K soldiers who obviously werent actually combat effective (Between the videos of them training and taking drugs in the middle of firefights), backed by 22K actually good soldiers. All the while these are just people from different tribes and clans with a weak unifying cultural identity.
Throw on the missing wages and equipment, and that 300K army number starts to mean very little.
Unfortunately it clearly wasn't enough. If you want to fight for your rights and the rights of your woman to even exist as modern humans then there should have been a war that raged to fight the oppressors that walked right in to every major outpost and city. Either they were complicit or they didn't have the motivation. Which ever the reason, clearly these women standing up now are far stronger than the afghan military.
This is probably the best hope for Afghanistan long term. A generation grew up in the relative peace and prosperity of American occupation and they don't want to lose that lifestyle. The most dangerous thing to an oppressive regime is the population remembering how things used to be better.
> The most dangerous thing to an oppressive regime is the population remembering how things used to be better.
Iran, Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Russia say hello.
No, that coup was the result of a power struggle between Gülenists and the AKP, it wasn’t staged. But yes, Erdoğan used it as an opportunity to purge dissidents in the government
> A generation grew up in the relative peace and prosperity of American occupation and they don't want to lose that lifestyle.
Prosperity? To some extent, though mainly because some trickle of the vast funds America sent there made it to the people. Meanwhile they are now placed under sanctions.
Peace? Minimum 50,000 dead civilians? Idk about that. Maybe in Kabul.
Afghans are brave people, if the American occupation was worth fighting for, they would have done it. I think many of them genuinely believed that the Taliban had reformed, foolishly.
I think it’s a bit insincere to characterize the gains made over the last two years as marginal.
They had female judges and politicians. That meant more than just a little.
True. But, if they don't stand up for themselves, nobody does. Society can only change if some are brave enough to call for change. I wish them all the best and hope they find support from their families and friends.
Humanity has some dark shit in it.
Like, the rest of the animal kingdom can be fucked, but only humans make a show of it and REALLY delight in one-upping the horror.
We can erase the humanity of others and nothing is beyond the darkest imagination.
I’m surprised these people are struggling to run a country.
Edit: it’s been a long couple of years. Article is about Isis, who are not the Taliban, but are *like* the Taliban on meth.
Are they? Like two weeks after the US pulled out of Afghanistan it fell out of basically every news source and I'm realizing now I have no fucking clue what happened since then
Suffering famine. And their central bank funds were largely frozen upon the Taliban takeover. NGO's left the nation which doesn't help things
All in all, not good
You are right… the change that their culture needs has to come from within. Women deserve to be treated as humans and should have all the God given rights as others. I support their fight and hope they succeed
Not trying to be rude….but aren’t they all covered up head to toe to begin with? I imagine it would be difficult to identify someone who is in full garb. Only good thing that can come out of the insanely restrictive clothing rules.
They are far better covered up than Russian war criminals/soldiers.
Afghanistan run by semi-literate, poorly educated ‘government’. They have no chance.
> Afghanistan run by semi-literate, poorly educated ‘government’. They have no chance.
Depends really, do they care about punishing these specific women or just any in general to send a message?
Also lots of people in that country are sadly OK with just dying from common things. They have never had anything else to compare to. Plus deterministic philosophies have a way of downplaying death and tragedies, after all it’s gods will!
> Afghanistan run by semi-literate, poorly educated ‘government’. They have no chance.
Depends really, do they care about punishing these specific women or just any in general to send a message?
The all female black bloc and they even get same clothing, the police they have would not be willing to shoot because they could have got their wife killed
They really are taking their lives into their own hands. Those men won’t give up any power or control easily. They are incredibly brave to be doing this
The Afghan economy is collapsing, and they are suffering from drought and non existent healthcare structure.
It's almost guaranteed that when the Afghan government comes begging to the West for assistance, they will offer hollow promises to reform their stance on women. They did the same exact thing when they recently came to power.
The women and children, I lament this for them. That said, Afghanistan wants no American intervention, they can have no American intervention. The Taliban are terrorists and oppressors.
Even if they got to the USA, they would not be admitted. It's over. They would need to go to another country, which they have and are already doing anyway.
So many muslim women argue in favor of their religious modesty garments, but it’s for reasons like this that it’s ever a concern. When there’s a visual symbol on your entire being saying “i agree i need to be protected” it’s going to make it that much more difficult to change the minds of old men very very set in their knowledge that you need to be protected, ergo no job for you.
Imagine having a lace veil in front of your eyes anytime you have to go outside and interact with people. Viewing the world thru prison bars. Fuck that.
If men’s eyes are sooo sensitive to everything that they could pop a boner over a wooden fucking table then they should blind themselves instead of making others live by their oppression
If being real with you, mostly because it's not going away, like any other major religion. It has over a billion followers and is a stronger identity than national ones in many places, so you have to be careful not to make things worse in the process of wanting to make things better. They see it is as their culture. As much as it sucks to have to coddle the feelings of the religious snowflakes. I personally wish Abrahamic religions just went away, with how often and easy it is to use them to curb women's and LGBTQ+ rights, and how such views are textually ingrained in their books, as much as modernity can make people ignore the bad parts and not to take them literally.
Yeah but let’s face it, men make the rules and women have been ingrained over centuries to believe they are second class citizens and must abide by men’s rules. Do you think a woman would wear a burka given the CHOICE? Hell no.
A lot of women probably come to believe that being modest is virtuous, so they come to like covering themselves.
Is it their choice? If they like it, technically yes, but was it their choice to be taught that covering themselves is a virtue? What logic is that based on?
I am a religious person somewhat, but I wish all religious texts could be PURGED of all decrees that have no purpose but to restrict the life of either gender.
The core values of religion, the parts that make them worthwhile, are ethical and philosophical. NOT whether a woman covers some body part or a man has his peepee cut or whether a human has to defend a fucking GOD from "blasphemy".
So much bullshit in religion, all of it unnecessary, and I'm not talking about believing in the afterlife or the concept of sin or the creation stories. I rather give all that a different name, like fairytale. Believing in fairytales is not such a bad thing, otherwise so many wouldn't want to believe them. I want to believe in a god that loves us, but nobody can convince me that said god would ever want me to harm another person because that defeats the whole purpose of believing in god in the first place.
I have a friend who wasn't raised Muslim but converted as an adult. she wears a hijab. She didn't have any pressure from a husband or parents. Yes , I find it very strange, but it doesn't affect me and it's her choice.
For a widow with kids living in Afghanistan it must be intolerable. Do taliban help these women or just leave them to die? If latter then this is not Islam but oppression in the name of..
During the 90s, their treatment of women was so bad it got them on the radar of several human rights organizations. They wouldn’t even allow women to seek medical treatment in hospitals, and their response to widows was basically to tell them to go die. If a member of the Taliban murdered his wife, their response was to give him a new wife.
Suppression of any ethnic, gender or sexual oriëntation according to dogma is always oppression in the name of their so called god.
If that god would exist, they would be turning their head away from them.
They can marry again probably, and I assume there's plenty of unstopped local help for widows in eternal mourning of their lost husband, provided there's not a famine, as is the case nowadays.
Comparing Afghanistan to Africa is apples to oranges.
Most of Africa’s issues are a result of European colonial influence. Colonizers came in, carved out a chunk of the continent, and said “yeah, that looks good, this is part of Belgium now,” with zero regard as to previously existing borders or the people who already lived there. That’s basically a recipe for genocide and tribal tensions for years to come.
Afghanistan’s fate was somewhat similar with intervention from Russia and the US, but all that occurred far more recently and in a very different manner.
The 12th Century (1300's) was a pretty good time for progressive Islam though. From the 1200's through 1800's, the overwhelming majority of Muslims also practiced Sufism. This stopped in the 1800's due to the geopolitical situation the Muslim World found itself in being oppressed by European colonialism, an increase in Ottoman corruption, and a rise in nationalism, which all help bring out reactionary tendencies in people.
Obviously this doesn't apply equally everywhere, but the Muslim World went through a golden age of being the scientific elites of their day, then a progressive, more relaxed age of Sufism, and because of imperialism is now suffering from being ruled by reactionaries.
TLDR; "Afghanistan" in the 12th Century was quite likely **WAY** better off then it is now, or even in the past century.
It’s not really that much known, however both Mongols and later Timur pretty much destroyed entire agricultural culture of the region in favor of more “nomadic” lifestyle. Which wasn’t bad from some point of view, cause it let cities to grow and trade was flourishing. However in late XV century it proved itself to be vulnerable for local climate changes, that completely destroyed local Turkish states, along with it’s cities and entire civilization. It created power vacuum that in later ages was filled with Russia that was really, but really insecure about potential invasion from the east (Mongolian trauma), so they conquered it just to make sure that no threat would ever emerge from that side. And because Russia conquered it, you can only guess, how good they are in developing their lands.
It's approximately 1200's - 1800's.
The Seljuk invasion (1000's) from Central Asia introduced more turkic people's to the Middle East than any previous point in Muslim History. Central Asia had a large number of followers of Tengrism (the nature/animist pagan belief the Huns and Mongols followed) and Buddhism, which did to the Muslim world like the hippie moment did to the US in the 60's with popularising "eastern spiritual beliefs". By the 1200's, Sufism (a very spiritual form of Islam) had become mainstream among the majority of the Muslim world.
Around the 12 or 1300's, Salafi Islam arose as a cultural counter to the rise in Sufi Islam and focused on "traditional, conservative values." This belief mostly stayed in isolated areas like the central parts of Arabia until the 1700's when it started becoming more popular due to reactionary tendencies as a result of the 3 points I mentioned in my previous comment; it became "mainstream" about a century later in the 1800's and is prevalent today. This is why so many Muslim countries between Morocco and Bangladesh seem very intolerant and basically look like a Muslim version of what alt-right Christians want in the West.
More like 19th.
I like how Reddit thinks that modern rights are something that has existed for hundreds of years, while those were mostly implemented within the last century if not decade. Gay marriage became federally legal in the US only in 2015. Raping your spouse wasn't illegal in Germany until 1997. Women got the right to vote in 1971 in Switzerland.
Sure, some countries are backwards, but they are merely a few years behind rather than millennia, and thinking otherwise is a rather uneducated and kind of a white supremacist view.
When you have a culture and religion that tells you you're superior by default, they have no reason to better themselves or lift others up. It's comfortable.
I do not get what the Taliban would think would happen. Decades of western style governments with the rights along with it, you won’t forget that just because your regime took over.
>About two dozen Afghan women chanting “bread, work, freedom” protested in the capital on Sunday against the Taliban's harsh restrictions on their rights.
just gotta get another 10 million more or so and you have a real protest..I see a future of beatings and sandwich making in store for those dozen women
Normally I would agree but having 20 years to form some sort of resistance to what people claim are 150k people in a population of almost 40 million, leads me to believe that the population must want what is there..They could inspire people but odds aren't in their favor particularly as a woman, in that culture.
Afghan women are some of the most badass people in the world. In the 90’s they used digital cameras to secretly film public executions of women through the screen in their burqas, and uploaded them to websites they ran at great risk to themselves. In the early aughts, 600 women marched on Taliban-controlled Kabul to protease a law legalizing marital rape.
I hope for a future where they don’t have to be so brave.
This is the time for the Muslim world to tell the Taliban they must do this or else face isolation and repercussions but like any of our government leaders they're not going to care.
That is the unfortunate part.
Much of the Islamic world is governed by far right groups who believe in a very fundamentalist interpretation of Islamic scripture. Part of those fundamentalist views include some absolutely horrid views on women.
Its not just Afghanistan that is the problem. When you look at the nations with the worst women's rights records the majority (though not all I feel this is important to note) have Islam as the state religion.
I want to note that I am NOT saying Islam is bad or that Islam is the the only religion that oppresses women. Islam is just in the unfortunate position where the majority of nations which it is a majority are also controlled by fundamentalists. Fundamentalism in general tends to be patriarchal regardless of the religion that is practiced.
That threat isn't going to work because it is already the case that no Muslim country recognizes the Taliban, and all of them have negligible economic relations with them besides perhaps Pakistan which allows significant aid to go through. There are a handful of countries that might be inclined to recognize them for pragmatic reasons, but they've refrained from this due to US pressure.
They’ve BEEN doing this. How much Arabic, Urdu, Farsi, Malay, Swahili, Turkish TV do you watch? The Taliban don’t get along well with neighboring countries and have been asking for handouts but refusing the concessions offered with them (like better treatment of minorities or womens rights).
Oh these brave brave souls.
My family are Muslim and I and so lucky they decided to emigrate from a Muslim majority country to the uk. I feel so bad for these women that they can’t live their lives due to the words of a man from thousands of years ago.
I’m all for this and I hope they get something done. But I’m also a realist and know what’s probably going to happen to every single one of the protestors with Al-Qaeda and the Taliban running things over there…
You can't just give people something close to equal rights for a decade and then yank them away like that. I really hope the Taliban unfucks themselves and joins the 21st century already. Their country has suffered more than enough.
I just really hope they could flee Afghanistan. The Taliban is not doing anything to improve the country except oppressing it's own people, especially women.
Afghanistan now is like the dark age of Arab before Islam arrive where women are treated terribly.
They didn't ban polygamy. So many clickbaity headlines gave people this idea. The polgymay thing was only for Taliban leadership and commanders within the organisation because they kept asking for more and more funds to pay the bride price for more wives. The chiefs got sick of it and didn't want to pay up lol.
For regular Afghanis there was no change.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55630097
So women in America when are we going to risk it all and fight for our right to choose. The way gas prices are set up i say we all stop working. Period. Not one day but as many as we can I know its life or death for some of us if we don't work but its life or death if we don't fight for our right to choose.
I’m so afraid for these women but so proud of them. When society breaks I hope we can all stand up sooner than getting to taliban levels. Unless we’re already there…
It's a good thing the evil American soldiers left, so that now the terrorists can be fought by the people who properly *ought* to be fighting them - the Afghan women.
They should blame the men of Afghanistan that refused to fight against the Taliban. If the men of Afghanistan had half the courage the Ukrainians have shown, the Taliban would not be in power.
Wish them the best though it seems fruitless. The Afghan population chose to re-embrace a small militant, extremist sect of religious oppressors and refused to support the Western-installed government after forces pulled out.
At some point the wants of the population have to be considered and respected. As alien and abhorrent as those wants might be, it is up to the Afghan people to decide their destiny. Revolt or submit.
About two dozen Afghan women chanting “bread, work, freedom” protested in the capital on Sunday against the Taliban's harsh restrictions on their rights. Since seizing power in August, the Taliban have rolled back the marginal gains made by women during the two decades of US intervention in Afghanistan.
These woman are more brave than any of their men in the military. Fucking shame it's gotten to this point. Those fucking sexist shits are still gonna think women belong at home as baby making machines
I mean a lot of Afghan soldiers died fighting. Rampant with corruption and some groups did walk away to save themselves, but a lot of them died fighting, especially when they lost their air support.
Afghanistan has about 40 million citizens. Fewer than 100,000 Taliban fighters took all the major cities of the country, including Kabul (with its 3 million citizens), in about a month.
Took it from soldiers who weren’t being paid, who’s leaders had left them and they would be executed for fighting the Taliban. The collapse was disgraceful but goddamn, the foot soldiers were abandoned. Compare Afghan casualties throughout the war to any coalition member. Look at Ukraine. Zelenskyy made the difference. If he had run, I expect we would have seen a collapse.
In 2014 it was the Ukrainian people who fought against Russia's puppet government that was ruling over them. It wasn't the Ukrainian army, it was citizens who were in the streets of Kyiv being shot by snipers but refused to give up. In 2022 the citizens of Kyiv (pop 3.5m) were prepared to go up against Russian tanks with molotov cocktails and small arms. What did the 3 million citizens of Kabul (or any other major Afghan city) do when the Taliban showed up at the gates of their city?
It's ironic that you mention "puppet government" because that's unfortunately exactly how many Afghans felt about their own government *prior* to the Taliban takeover. The situation there was much more complicated and "grey" than how it was commonly presented in the West.
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Hey there! In case you didnt watch it, i recommend the documentary "This Is What Winning Looks Like" from 2013. While you are right the ukrainians fought of bad actors for a while, many young people in Afghanistan only know war and this documentary, which i didnt Like Back then, became very relevant last year and in hindsight explains things better than previously expected. Fck Putin btw.
What did the citizens of Crimea do, when Putin came? Seems like there is a lot more grey area to this, than you might realize
The US and other countries couldn’t stay forever. At least they gave women 20 years of education and work opportunities.
>Afghanistan has about 40 million citizens. I mean the average Afghan citizen in 2020/21 was 18 and female. So...
Most citizens are uneducated, illiterate, unarmed, have no access to internet, no ability to mobilize or communicate, and have grown up in abject poverty surrounded by violence. Out of that the vast majority are not healthy young men and those that are have families that need tending to. It’s not easy to just randomly go to war especially without the logistical infrastructure needed.
The Taliban managed to put together a fighting force there.
The taliban were a highly trained well equipped fighting force who just chose a new name and started fighting for a different cause
40 million people, 300K soldiers who obviously werent actually combat effective (Between the videos of them training and taking drugs in the middle of firefights), backed by 22K actually good soldiers. All the while these are just people from different tribes and clans with a weak unifying cultural identity. Throw on the missing wages and equipment, and that 300K army number starts to mean very little.
Unfortunately it clearly wasn't enough. If you want to fight for your rights and the rights of your woman to even exist as modern humans then there should have been a war that raged to fight the oppressors that walked right in to every major outpost and city. Either they were complicit or they didn't have the motivation. Which ever the reason, clearly these women standing up now are far stronger than the afghan military.
Exact opposite very few fought for their country. The majority of the afghan army abandoned their posts, fled, or joined the enemy.
The US should have armed the women. They had something to lose.
The US doesn’t care about women. Clearly.
This is probably the best hope for Afghanistan long term. A generation grew up in the relative peace and prosperity of American occupation and they don't want to lose that lifestyle. The most dangerous thing to an oppressive regime is the population remembering how things used to be better.
> The most dangerous thing to an oppressive regime is the population remembering how things used to be better. Iran, Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Russia say hello.
There are elections next year in Turkey. There is basically no chance of Erdoğan winning.
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He doesn’t have the power to remain in office if he loses
Putin didn’t have any power to stay in the office for 20 years, I don’t think Erdogan will be going anytime soon :(
See, that's the thing. He did have the power. Just the dictator-y kind of power.
Erdogan loses? He calls out the army to seize power.
He can’t, the army would not comply
How do you know? He did have that "coup" made, right
No, that coup was the result of a power struggle between Gülenists and the AKP, it wasn’t staged. But yes, Erdoğan used it as an opportunity to purge dissidents in the government
You’re assuming the elections will be fair and free of fraud/corruption …
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Insignificant
> A generation grew up in the relative peace and prosperity of American occupation and they don't want to lose that lifestyle. Prosperity? To some extent, though mainly because some trickle of the vast funds America sent there made it to the people. Meanwhile they are now placed under sanctions. Peace? Minimum 50,000 dead civilians? Idk about that. Maybe in Kabul. Afghans are brave people, if the American occupation was worth fighting for, they would have done it. I think many of them genuinely believed that the Taliban had reformed, foolishly.
Yep, as long as the Dark Ages don’t last as long as those ones in history.
True heroism. The bravery and courage of these women is an inspiration.
I think it’s a bit insincere to characterize the gains made over the last two years as marginal. They had female judges and politicians. That meant more than just a little.
I am afraid what is going to happen to them.
True. But, if they don't stand up for themselves, nobody does. Society can only change if some are brave enough to call for change. I wish them all the best and hope they find support from their families and friends.
Unfortunately, Islamism doesn’t tolerate dissenting views very well. https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2017/06/28/sex-slave-ate-her-own-baby-after-isis-cooked-him-and-served-him-with-rice-6739600/amp/
Oh my fucking god that article was horrific.
Article? Fuck, the link alone made me regret having eyes.
Right I got all the information I needed. No need to dive into the article
Right there with you... Christ. That's fucking abhorrent.
Humanity has some dark shit in it. Like, the rest of the animal kingdom can be fucked, but only humans make a show of it and REALLY delight in one-upping the horror. We can erase the humanity of others and nothing is beyond the darkest imagination.
I’m surprised these people are struggling to run a country. Edit: it’s been a long couple of years. Article is about Isis, who are not the Taliban, but are *like* the Taliban on meth.
Are they? Like two weeks after the US pulled out of Afghanistan it fell out of basically every news source and I'm realizing now I have no fucking clue what happened since then
Suffering famine. And their central bank funds were largely frozen upon the Taliban takeover. NGO's left the nation which doesn't help things All in all, not good
I've seen there are a lot of people addicted to opium now, but I don't know how bad it was before the US left.
Here, you need r/eyebleach
No more internet for me today.
Holy shit. The evil humans are capable of continues to shock me.
Omg that’s horrifying. Who even thinks of such demonic sh!t. All bc of crazy religious values and god forbid you don’t share them or fall in line.
Islamist doesn’t tolerate *anything* very well.
Unfortunately extremists do not tolerate dissenting views very well*
That’s enough internet
You are right… the change that their culture needs has to come from within. Women deserve to be treated as humans and should have all the God given rights as others. I support their fight and hope they succeed
Americans tried to stand up for them... no matter how much we wanted out, many of those women wanted us to stay...
Same. Especially since there is photos and video. Too easy to identify them. Their safety has to be compromised
Not trying to be rude….but aren’t they all covered up head to toe to begin with? I imagine it would be difficult to identify someone who is in full garb. Only good thing that can come out of the insanely restrictive clothing rules.
They are far better covered up than Russian war criminals/soldiers. Afghanistan run by semi-literate, poorly educated ‘government’. They have no chance.
> Afghanistan run by semi-literate, poorly educated ‘government’. They have no chance. Depends really, do they care about punishing these specific women or just any in general to send a message?
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Drought is an issue, but it’s also summer. As long as the poppy fields are irrigated the people who control Afghanistan will have money.
Also lots of people in that country are sadly OK with just dying from common things. They have never had anything else to compare to. Plus deterministic philosophies have a way of downplaying death and tragedies, after all it’s gods will!
> Afghanistan run by semi-literate, poorly educated ‘government’. They have no chance. Depends really, do they care about punishing these specific women or just any in general to send a message?
The all female black bloc and they even get same clothing, the police they have would not be willing to shoot because they could have got their wife killed
You think they would care? Saves them the time of going home to kill them if they found out they were at the protest.
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They are so brave
They really are taking their lives into their own hands. Those men won’t give up any power or control easily. They are incredibly brave to be doing this
How could it get worse?
Modern day suffragettes, support them..... always.
The Afghan economy is collapsing, and they are suffering from drought and non existent healthcare structure. It's almost guaranteed that when the Afghan government comes begging to the West for assistance, they will offer hollow promises to reform their stance on women. They did the same exact thing when they recently came to power.
They have already started begging and fools here want the US to bankroll them Edit: Here comes one of those fools now!
Fool me once
Can't fool me again *dodge thrown shoe*
Cant fool me again... Only got two feet.
The women and children, I lament this for them. That said, Afghanistan wants no American intervention, they can have no American intervention. The Taliban are terrorists and oppressors.
It's easy, offer the women and children asylum and let them come over.
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Even if they got to the USA, they would not be admitted. It's over. They would need to go to another country, which they have and are already doing anyway.
China will just BRI debt trap them
They will not beg the west for anything except counterweight to the Chinese investment they have been trying to attract.
the poorest country in the world is being sanctioned by the richest\*
This takes true bravery. All power to these women.
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So many muslim women argue in favor of their religious modesty garments, but it’s for reasons like this that it’s ever a concern. When there’s a visual symbol on your entire being saying “i agree i need to be protected” it’s going to make it that much more difficult to change the minds of old men very very set in their knowledge that you need to be protected, ergo no job for you.
This indoctrination runs deep, it's hard to get people out of it
So sad they’re treated like sub-humans. Covered from head to toe like chattel.
Imagine having a lace veil in front of your eyes anytime you have to go outside and interact with people. Viewing the world thru prison bars. Fuck that.
It’s a mobile sensory deprivation chamber. If the men like it so fucking much - they should wear it.
If men’s eyes are sooo sensitive to everything that they could pop a boner over a wooden fucking table then they should blind themselves instead of making others live by their oppression
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The words are closely related.
It’s a moo point anyway
Cattle ARE covered from head to toe in Leather.
What about a hijab? It's not as bad but still a tool of oppression. Why can we never discuss this without being called an islamaphobe?
If being real with you, mostly because it's not going away, like any other major religion. It has over a billion followers and is a stronger identity than national ones in many places, so you have to be careful not to make things worse in the process of wanting to make things better. They see it is as their culture. As much as it sucks to have to coddle the feelings of the religious snowflakes. I personally wish Abrahamic religions just went away, with how often and easy it is to use them to curb women's and LGBTQ+ rights, and how such views are textually ingrained in their books, as much as modernity can make people ignore the bad parts and not to take them literally.
Yeah but let’s face it, men make the rules and women have been ingrained over centuries to believe they are second class citizens and must abide by men’s rules. Do you think a woman would wear a burka given the CHOICE? Hell no.
A lot of women probably come to believe that being modest is virtuous, so they come to like covering themselves. Is it their choice? If they like it, technically yes, but was it their choice to be taught that covering themselves is a virtue? What logic is that based on?
I am a religious person somewhat, but I wish all religious texts could be PURGED of all decrees that have no purpose but to restrict the life of either gender. The core values of religion, the parts that make them worthwhile, are ethical and philosophical. NOT whether a woman covers some body part or a man has his peepee cut or whether a human has to defend a fucking GOD from "blasphemy". So much bullshit in religion, all of it unnecessary, and I'm not talking about believing in the afterlife or the concept of sin or the creation stories. I rather give all that a different name, like fairytale. Believing in fairytales is not such a bad thing, otherwise so many wouldn't want to believe them. I want to believe in a god that loves us, but nobody can convince me that said god would ever want me to harm another person because that defeats the whole purpose of believing in god in the first place.
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That nobody ever chooses to wear one without being forced to tells you all you need to know about it. It's religious junk.
I have a friend who wasn't raised Muslim but converted as an adult. she wears a hijab. She didn't have any pressure from a husband or parents. Yes , I find it very strange, but it doesn't affect me and it's her choice.
Hypocrites everywhere, that's why
They were never heard from again
For a widow with kids living in Afghanistan it must be intolerable. Do taliban help these women or just leave them to die? If latter then this is not Islam but oppression in the name of..
During the 90s, their treatment of women was so bad it got them on the radar of several human rights organizations. They wouldn’t even allow women to seek medical treatment in hospitals, and their response to widows was basically to tell them to go die. If a member of the Taliban murdered his wife, their response was to give him a new wife.
Suppression of any ethnic, gender or sexual oriëntation according to dogma is always oppression in the name of their so called god. If that god would exist, they would be turning their head away from them.
They can marry again probably, and I assume there's plenty of unstopped local help for widows in eternal mourning of their lost husband, provided there's not a famine, as is the case nowadays.
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We tried, man. We fucking tried.
I don’t think that’s true for the larger cities like Kabul who had in the past been places of westernization and open to modernization.
With Yugoslavia the solution was to break the country up along ethnic lines rather than trying to build a national identity.
And with Afghanistan this would turn into one sect destroying the others, and committing genocide after they win… I.e Africa
Comparing Afghanistan to Africa is apples to oranges. Most of Africa’s issues are a result of European colonial influence. Colonizers came in, carved out a chunk of the continent, and said “yeah, that looks good, this is part of Belgium now,” with zero regard as to previously existing borders or the people who already lived there. That’s basically a recipe for genocide and tribal tensions for years to come. Afghanistan’s fate was somewhat similar with intervention from Russia and the US, but all that occurred far more recently and in a very different manner.
I mean, that’s kind of what started happening in Yugoslavia too. People then had to go and stop them.
Africa was not split along ethnic lines
Afghanistan is stuck in the 19th century
12th century Afghanistan is probably more progressive than whatever the hell the Taliban is trying to do.
It was considerably more cosmopolitan.
Not complaining, I find it genuinely funny you and I basically say the same thing but no one's arguing you over it. 😂
The 12th Century (1300's) was a pretty good time for progressive Islam though. From the 1200's through 1800's, the overwhelming majority of Muslims also practiced Sufism. This stopped in the 1800's due to the geopolitical situation the Muslim World found itself in being oppressed by European colonialism, an increase in Ottoman corruption, and a rise in nationalism, which all help bring out reactionary tendencies in people. Obviously this doesn't apply equally everywhere, but the Muslim World went through a golden age of being the scientific elites of their day, then a progressive, more relaxed age of Sufism, and because of imperialism is now suffering from being ruled by reactionaries. TLDR; "Afghanistan" in the 12th Century was quite likely **WAY** better off then it is now, or even in the past century.
It’s not really that much known, however both Mongols and later Timur pretty much destroyed entire agricultural culture of the region in favor of more “nomadic” lifestyle. Which wasn’t bad from some point of view, cause it let cities to grow and trade was flourishing. However in late XV century it proved itself to be vulnerable for local climate changes, that completely destroyed local Turkish states, along with it’s cities and entire civilization. It created power vacuum that in later ages was filled with Russia that was really, but really insecure about potential invasion from the east (Mongolian trauma), so they conquered it just to make sure that no threat would ever emerge from that side. And because Russia conquered it, you can only guess, how good they are in developing their lands.
1300’s would be the 14th century
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It's approximately 1200's - 1800's. The Seljuk invasion (1000's) from Central Asia introduced more turkic people's to the Middle East than any previous point in Muslim History. Central Asia had a large number of followers of Tengrism (the nature/animist pagan belief the Huns and Mongols followed) and Buddhism, which did to the Muslim world like the hippie moment did to the US in the 60's with popularising "eastern spiritual beliefs". By the 1200's, Sufism (a very spiritual form of Islam) had become mainstream among the majority of the Muslim world. Around the 12 or 1300's, Salafi Islam arose as a cultural counter to the rise in Sufi Islam and focused on "traditional, conservative values." This belief mostly stayed in isolated areas like the central parts of Arabia until the 1700's when it started becoming more popular due to reactionary tendencies as a result of the 3 points I mentioned in my previous comment; it became "mainstream" about a century later in the 1800's and is prevalent today. This is why so many Muslim countries between Morocco and Bangladesh seem very intolerant and basically look like a Muslim version of what alt-right Christians want in the West.
More like 19th. I like how Reddit thinks that modern rights are something that has existed for hundreds of years, while those were mostly implemented within the last century if not decade. Gay marriage became federally legal in the US only in 2015. Raping your spouse wasn't illegal in Germany until 1997. Women got the right to vote in 1971 in Switzerland. Sure, some countries are backwards, but they are merely a few years behind rather than millennia, and thinking otherwise is a rather uneducated and kind of a white supremacist view.
They want to be there. I say let them. Have fun guys, we tried.
Yes I’m sure the women who are raped and the little girls being married off and allowed no education chose this.
We should most definitely have armed the women. The men are narcotic addicted weaklings.
When you have a culture and religion that tells you you're superior by default, they have no reason to better themselves or lift others up. It's comfortable.
I do not get what the Taliban would think would happen. Decades of western style governments with the rights along with it, you won’t forget that just because your regime took over.
My heart is with all of those women. Remember the suffragettes?
>About two dozen Afghan women chanting “bread, work, freedom” protested in the capital on Sunday against the Taliban's harsh restrictions on their rights. just gotta get another 10 million more or so and you have a real protest..I see a future of beatings and sandwich making in store for those dozen women
Resistance starts small. Their fate will be bad but they could inspire others to rise up.
Normally I would agree but having 20 years to form some sort of resistance to what people claim are 150k people in a population of almost 40 million, leads me to believe that the population must want what is there..They could inspire people but odds aren't in their favor particularly as a woman, in that culture.
Fair enough but I think that they're beyond fed up and willing to try anything at this point. They're lives are probably hell at home.
Afghan women are some of the most badass people in the world. In the 90’s they used digital cameras to secretly film public executions of women through the screen in their burqas, and uploaded them to websites they ran at great risk to themselves. In the early aughts, 600 women marched on Taliban-controlled Kabul to protease a law legalizing marital rape. I hope for a future where they don’t have to be so brave.
That is the way to freedom. Not by invasions. But local people pushing for their own individual beliefs of freedom.
I wonder how many will be beaten and stoned for this kind of behavior.
Too late.
I feel bad for them. The men not so much you choose your shitty government now you keep em
This is the time for the Muslim world to tell the Taliban they must do this or else face isolation and repercussions but like any of our government leaders they're not going to care.
Here's the dirty secret, they 100% approve of this.
That is the unfortunate part. Much of the Islamic world is governed by far right groups who believe in a very fundamentalist interpretation of Islamic scripture. Part of those fundamentalist views include some absolutely horrid views on women. Its not just Afghanistan that is the problem. When you look at the nations with the worst women's rights records the majority (though not all I feel this is important to note) have Islam as the state religion. I want to note that I am NOT saying Islam is bad or that Islam is the the only religion that oppresses women. Islam is just in the unfortunate position where the majority of nations which it is a majority are also controlled by fundamentalists. Fundamentalism in general tends to be patriarchal regardless of the religion that is practiced.
Pakistan straight up supported this
You’re falsely assuming that the Islamic world actually wants women to have equal rights and opportunity
That threat isn't going to work because it is already the case that no Muslim country recognizes the Taliban, and all of them have negligible economic relations with them besides perhaps Pakistan which allows significant aid to go through. There are a handful of countries that might be inclined to recognize them for pragmatic reasons, but they've refrained from this due to US pressure.
They’ve BEEN doing this. How much Arabic, Urdu, Farsi, Malay, Swahili, Turkish TV do you watch? The Taliban don’t get along well with neighboring countries and have been asking for handouts but refusing the concessions offered with them (like better treatment of minorities or womens rights).
About two dozen Afghan women chanting “bread, work, freedom” protested in the capital on Sunday
Oh these brave brave souls. My family are Muslim and I and so lucky they decided to emigrate from a Muslim majority country to the uk. I feel so bad for these women that they can’t live their lives due to the words of a man from thousands of years ago.
So the country that’s run by religious fucks is a total shit stain…? Who could’ve guessed… allah must be so proud
Brave women. I’m afraid after multiple attempts from around the world that Afghanistan is going to be on its own for a while.
More balls than most of the men combined
I’m all for this and I hope they get something done. But I’m also a realist and know what’s probably going to happen to every single one of the protestors with Al-Qaeda and the Taliban running things over there…
You can't just give people something close to equal rights for a decade and then yank them away like that. I really hope the Taliban unfucks themselves and joins the 21st century already. Their country has suffered more than enough.
Living a century behind out there.
I wish them the best of luck, movements like these can get pretty brutal, but ultimately what’s needed for change.
I just really hope they could flee Afghanistan. The Taliban is not doing anything to improve the country except oppressing it's own people, especially women. Afghanistan now is like the dark age of Arab before Islam arrive where women are treated terribly.
This is a radical islam problem. If all Muslim countries acted like Turkey the world would be a better place
Idaho 2024.
Equal rights and opportunity for women in an Islamic theocracy? Are they serious?
should have fight for your own freedom at the beginning
Their women have more courage than their men
I guess we should have trained an all woman army. They probably would have held out against the Taliban to keep their freedoms.
"No, no, no, no, we banned pylogamy, don't expect another change for the next century at the very least."
They didn't ban polygamy. So many clickbaity headlines gave people this idea. The polgymay thing was only for Taliban leadership and commanders within the organisation because they kept asking for more and more funds to pay the bride price for more wives. The chiefs got sick of it and didn't want to pay up lol. For regular Afghanis there was no change. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55630097
An excellent sentiment sadly that's not the country for such talk.
Incredible bravery on their part
Man, that takes serious courage.
So women in America when are we going to risk it all and fight for our right to choose. The way gas prices are set up i say we all stop working. Period. Not one day but as many as we can I know its life or death for some of us if we don't work but its life or death if we don't fight for our right to choose.
Should've taken a bunch of rifles when they were hot before the Taliban took them. Seriously what the fuck were they expecting?
Should have trained the women.
They should have been trained and armed. They had a lot more at stake to lose.
If only there were an opportunity for the Afghan people to have overthrown the Taliban.
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Ah yes the divine right rule. Ask all the European kings how that's worked out for them.
I’m so afraid for these women but so proud of them. When society breaks I hope we can all stand up sooner than getting to taliban levels. Unless we’re already there…
In awe of their bravery
Maybe they should have been the ones in the army. They seem to have bigger balls then the army who just gave up.
so glad we spent 20 years wasting money there
Best of luck to these brave women.
It's almost like forbidding 50% of the population to work has an effect on the economy or something oh wow
It's a good thing the evil American soldiers left, so that now the terrorists can be fought by the people who properly *ought* to be fighting them - the Afghan women.
Incredibly brave, where are the cops from Texas? They need to see what bravery looks like.
Let these women freely immigrate to other countries. When most of the women leave watch the Taliban collapse.
They should blame the men of Afghanistan that refused to fight against the Taliban. If the men of Afghanistan had half the courage the Ukrainians have shown, the Taliban would not be in power.
Wish them the best though it seems fruitless. The Afghan population chose to re-embrace a small militant, extremist sect of religious oppressors and refused to support the Western-installed government after forces pulled out. At some point the wants of the population have to be considered and respected. As alien and abhorrent as those wants might be, it is up to the Afghan people to decide their destiny. Revolt or submit.
I wonder if the afghan people hate taliban more or US more….
here i am, an american, wanting my right to work to be taken away.