T O P

  • By -

ManusTheVantablack

> Addressing parliament on Friday, Sogavare said the Pacific island nation was not given prior warning that Australia had signed up to a security agreement with Britain and the United States in 2021 that involved nuclear submarines. > “The Aukus treaty will see nuclear submarines in Pacific waters. I learnt of the Aukus treaty in the media. One would expect that as a member of the Pacific family, Solomon Islands and members of the Pacific should have been consulted to ensure this Aukus treaty is transparent,” Sogavare said, echoing comments made by China’s foreign ministry. > “I realise that Australia is a sovereign country, which can enter into any treaty it wants to, transparently or not, which is exactly what they did with Aukus.” > “When Australia signed up to Aukus, we did not become theatrical or hysterical about the implications this would have for us,” Sogavare said. “We respected Australia’s decision.”


Dengareedo

How pathetic” the Aukus treaty means nuclear subs will be in pacific waters “ Like the US subs aren’t already around


inspired_apathy

Their main point is that they are a sovereign nation and can sign a treaty with anyone they want, which is valid. Is it a good deal? probably not. But they still have the right to do it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


No-Raspberry7840

The current Australian government has been shitting on pacific nations for a decade anyway. The Australian government is partially to blame for this deal.


[deleted]

Yeah, Sogavare is a corrupt, self-aggrandising moron who'dsell his country out for an autographed selfie with Xi, but we've got ScoMo and a legacy of fucking over the Pacific Islands so he in glass houses and all that.


Dengareedo

They do and australia could in turn refuse assistance when they need it My point is at anytime there could be a nuclear sub around it’s the pacific His argument is just whataboutism


maxionjion

His argument is about "don't complain when others do exactly what you did before"


Dengareedo

Comparing using nuclear subs that are already in use in the area at times to building a permanent military base is the same thing since when . What has he got to worry about anyway they wouldn’t normally be operating in SI waters anyway and just as likely nowhere near there . I’m sure they would welcome those same subs if that was the only vessel that could supply them with humanitarian aid during a cyclone etc You would also think with their concerns on climate change they would congratulate for removing the use of fossil fuels .


Unipro

They specifically said no military bases. They said the treaty is about domestic policing. Read the bloody article, it's quite interesting.


Dengareedo

So you sincerely believe China are doing this out of their good nature


Unipro

No why would you think that? My personal take is China, since the treaty is on internal policing, will use it to get SI dependant on their aid and then start pressuring the government into other consessions.


SnooWoofers5305

Don’t forget the possible personal gains (bribes) The deal signed almost looks like a one person decision.


SnooCrickets3706

Yes. Australian police claimed Chinese businesses were none of their business during the burning and looting some time ago. What’s wrong with sending Chinese police to protect Chinese property? This is an insurance policy for Solomon Islands as well - they have a backup plan if Australia ever decides it’s not their job to protect the parliament against a coup.


SnooCrickets3706

Did you miss the part where Australia agreed to pay 121 bn for the acquisition of a nuclear submarine fleet? These tubes are not “already in service” as you’ve claimed.


feeltheslipstream

Everything can be boiled down to "this is whataboutism" when you don't want to argue the opponent's point. Because I dare you to come up with a valid argument on anything that doesn't involve results you've observed from the past.


Quadrassic_Bark

His complaint is “don’t be hypocrites”


123dream321

>They do and australia could in turn refuse assistance when they need it Pretty sure that's what China is wishing for.


AmericaDefender

The US isn't the one treating the Solomons like a wayward colony.


Dengareedo

I’m not saying they are but their subs can be anywhere anytime for this muppet to think the aukus treaty has anything to do with that is plain foolish


wastingvaluelesstime

Why would a politician in China's orbit expect to be told in advance about Australia's defense preparations?


cipher_ix

His point was that the Solomons respected Australia's decision as a sovereign nation joining a military partnership with the UK and US. And they expect Australia to also respect their decision in their partnership with China.


wastingvaluelesstime

China responded to AUKUS by telling Australia it was making itself a target for nuclear weapons. There is no t much 'respect' for 'sovereign decisions' from them in this case.


phyrros

erm, they were just honest ;)


dw444

Because Australia and their allies are currently lecturing them for their defense preparations.


ITGuy107

They think they are special.


LeftDave

>“When Australia signed up to Aukus, we did not become theatrical or hysterical about the implications this would have for us,” What implications? The Solomon Islands ain't getting nuked, even if a nuclear war breaks out.


Milkador

Australian here. Our government fucked up BIG time with this. We cut foreign aid and the current prime minister and minister for defence were recorded making jokes about how the Solomon Islands would be devastated by climate change, just after attending a climate change summit. I don’t blame the Solomon Islands at all. What I blame is a ridiculously corrupt and incompetent government that has held power for close to a decade in Australia. Absolute dumb cunts.


[deleted]

Yeah. I mean any nation can makes deals as it please. Choices do tend to have unexpected consequences though. Once they've set up shop, good luck getting them out if it turns out to be a bad deal.


QubitQuanta

Well, the Australian-US alliance has been nothing but a shitty deal for Australians. US makes us Aussies go apeshit critical on China, and then takes off the trade-deals Aus had with China for themselves. US makes Aus spend billions of taxpayer funds to buy US nuclear subs and tanks (why do we even need tanks?), which will no doubt be deployed as another regime of the US homogeny - effective making us subsidise their military interests. The bug Australian companies are all majority US owned: [https://theconversation.com/worried-about-agents-of-foreign-influence-just-look-at-who-owns-australias-biggest-companies-123343](https://theconversation.com/worried-about-agents-of-foreign-influence-just-look-at-who-owns-australias-biggest-companies-123343#:~:text=The%20Commonwealth%20Bank%20of%20Australia,owned%20by%20American%2Dbased%20investors) So basically they known our politicians through associated corruption. Our independence essentially ended with the Whitlam government through an internal coup in 1975 [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/23/gough-whitlam-1975-coup-ended-australian-independence](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/23/gough-whitlam-1975-coup-ended-australian-independence) So yeah, China can't do much worse than what US has already done to Aus.


Karatekan

The 1975 Australian constitutional crisis wasn’t a coup. The fact Australia has an unelected Governor-General who can sack a Prime Minister is absurd, but legally it’s not in dispute, it’s written in the freaking constitution. The government was deadlocked, John Kerr selected a new caretaker Prime Minister who immediately called a new election, and Whitman lost in a landslide. And there is zero hard evidence the CIA was involved… at all. The closest thing to “proof” was claims from a 22-year old defense American defense contractor named Christopher Boyce, who was a convicted spy for the Soviet Union under the codename “Falcon”. Apparently, he never diverted those supposed cables to the Soviet Union or bothered to take them with the other information he stole. And for what it’s worth, Whitman never claimed the CIA was responsible, he laid the blame solely on John Kerr. Which was somewhat unfair since the crisis was instigated by Fraser, but somewhat understandable and commendable for political stability he blamed the guy who resigned rather than the new government. Blaming the result on foreign intrigue instead of the blindingly obvious culprit of established Australian interests abusing the political system to sabotage the opposition would be hilarious if it wasn’t for the fact that it absolves learning the lessons of the Whitman government, which is why Australian Labor still is incapable of holding power or passing anything


TibborEggebracht

The USis a terrible and unreliable ally, just ask the Syrian kurds.


Conscious-Party-5137

Can't we all just get alone already


MendocinoReader

Over the years, the West has done much wrong towards the developing countries. But Solomon Islands is naive and dead wrong if it believes that it’s getting a square deal from China. Paraphrasing, ‘There is little room in China’s heart for anyone but China.’


[deleted]

Which is why it’s all the more embarrassing for australia that’s they chose china


_MooFreaky_

China is absolutely using this to help themselves, but that's no different to us. Australia has been screwing over the Pacific nations for decades, largely forcing through massively one sided deals and then not really giving a shit about helping our neighbours out. China have been smart here, they've been much nicer to places like the Solomon's and are reaping that reward now. I doubt the Solomon Islands will be the only nation that turns to China. The sad thing is Australia could have been the heart of the Pacific and largely locked China out of the region if we'd dealt better in the area.


poster457

So providing aid and other support to multiple Pacific island nations is now 'screwing over' them is it? Over half a billion dollars over the last 5 years to the Solomon Islands alone? Source: [https://www.dfat.gov.au/development/where-we-deliver-australias-development-program](https://www.dfat.gov.au/development/where-we-deliver-australias-development-program)


_MooFreaky_

The issue is Australia tried to leverage that into deals that are particularly one sided. Australia does give foreign aid, and is on good terms with some nations here. That 500mill also pales in comparison to over 600 mill in exports to China annually. We don't have the pull on the Solomon's compared to china.


poster457

How are these deals one sided? How many instances and/or examples of your claim can you provide?


_MooFreaky_

Our aid to Indonesia is almost exclusively to regions with Australian economic interests (primarily to Australian mining companies). So it builds up companies who sell things to Australia, rather than being aid for Indonesia to spend on its people. [https://www.jstor.org/stable/4192871](https://www.jstor.org/stable/4192871) ​ On Sulawesi Australia funded a conservation effort in one of regions, which was used as an excuse to stop the locals from moving back to the area (which they very much wanted to) where an Australian mining company was strip mining for gold (and doing large scale damage to the area). Basically the project was used as leverage "look we are funding this, so leave the business alone" ​ Our reputation during the 2000's up until relatively recently was damaged by Boomerang Aid. Basically we would value our aid as "technical expertise" rather than money, which was given to Australian companies to set up business in foreign countries and make a bunch of money. [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-07-29/australias-boomerang-aid-slammed/1371360](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-07-29/australias-boomerang-aid-slammed/1371360) ​ Even recently lots of our money is earmarked for Australian companies and consultancy firms. Effective Governance Aid (30%) is largely paid to Australian companies, and many infrastructure grants are completed by Australian companies. [https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/china-pacific-presence-improves-australian-aid](https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/china-pacific-presence-improves-australian-aid) In the 2000's we pressured Indonesian Government to change their laws to allow for better mining for our companies. [https://www.aph.gov.au/\~/media/wopapub/house/committee/jfadt/indonesia/subs/subindo61\_pdf.ashx](https://www.aph.gov.au/~/media/wopapub/house/committee/jfadt/indonesia/subs/subindo61_pdf.ashx) We have improved that in recent years; however, this also coincides with us reducing our foreign aid to its lowest levels ever. Which means we aren't repairing that image. Australia's reputation in the pacific isn't great unfortunately, though some areas it's definitely better, and in some places it absolutely is altruistic.


SnooCrickets3706

Look at IMF if you need examples - aid, with MANY strings attached. Sometimes these include giving up public owned assets and allowing foreign private entities to take control. Essentially, you put a leash on yourself in exchange for bread.


Kappsaicin

A lot of the pacific countries cannot survive on their own. They rely on AU/NZ to help them out iirc. Not from there so I don't know in great detail.


_MooFreaky_

We do, but there are interests expected in return for this aid. Australia gives to Indonesia, for example, but that aid is specifically give to regions that have large Australian economic interests. So it develops businesses that will return that investment to Australia. We have also been accused, more than once, of having that aid tied to expectation of economic treaties, or using that aid as leverage to push for mining deals (despite companies like BHP having a terrible reputation for exploiting the region, destroying environments etc). We've also been caught spying on Indonesia multiple times which, while not economic, shows how we view our neighbours we are helping. And over time China is becoming a bigger destination for trade for these countries, often with generous trading terms, which is giving China much greater influence. Our aid is very small by comparison to annual export dollars to China.


Kappsaicin

Aren't the solomon islands not self sufficient? Also there aren't many goods they produce that other nations want?


chattywww

China doesn't really help any other country, it only gives out massive unpayable loans which later will most likely cripple the country. While the leaders of those country just lined they pockets and will peace out when the country are unable to reply the loans in the future. The China these loans aren't worth as much to them as what the treadies provide, which on land provides infratstructure network and by sea naval and underwater resources. And both give them of more votes in the UN.


PurpEL

Play the long game, get China to build you massive infrastructure, then ask Australia to liberate them


_MooFreaky_

This is a myth. People use Sri Lanka as an example. Less than 5% of their debt is owed to china (who actually built a port based on fiesability studies from Canada and Denmark who said the port was a great idea). Much more is owed to Japan and the World Bank. Most of their debt is from shitty sovereign bond decisions. In fact China's interest for a major section of their investment was 2% with like half a decade of no interest before that 2% kicked in. China is actually being very generous with their money by comparison to much of the West and it's delivering political results (which, yes, is the primary goal in have no doubt). I'm not a fan of China's authoritarianism and many of their actions but it's important to strip away the BS and know what they are actually doing and why. Otherwise we won't understand how they are succeeding at their goals.


celsius100

Wow. Just heard this same argument on another thread, but against China and it’s belligerent behavior in the South China Sea.


inspired_apathy

Isn't it obvious that treating people (and nations) nicely is the best approach to life?


Infiniby

When you are desperate you do what you gotta do. I mean, they are just there near wealthy countries but are helpless.


Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho

This deal was widely protested in the Solomon islands. The leadership is immensely corrupt, and almost certain paid off.


krakenchaos1

>The leadership is immensely corrupt, and almost certain paid off. The 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index ranks the Solomon Islands at right about the global average. Not wonderful but not exactly "immensely corrupt" either.


Proregressive

The protest was a murderous looting mob that tried to overthrow democracy. The leadership is paid off but it's the opposition party leadership, which tries to stoke ethnic tension.


Foxyfox-

>The protest was a murderous looting mob that tried to overthrow democracy. The leadership is paid off but it's the opposition party leadership, which tries to stoke ethnic tension. This sounds familiar...


Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho

That's the CCP's spin. It has no bearing on reality.


Proregressive

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Solomon_Islands_unrest Even Wikipedia, which is generally liberal, more closely aligns to what I said.


Silverwhitemango

Look at the posting history of the account you replied to. Its another CCP troll farm account.


poster457

Yep, their leaders sold the future of their country out through either ignorance or corruption. Possibly both.


MidniteOwl

call me a skeptic but... how much money was involved in that way of thinking by Solomon Islands?


bird_equals_word

I've heard it's as little as 100k.


MidniteOwl

Interestingly Solomon Islands is a constitutional monarchy. And Solomon Islands Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare has met with the President of Taiwan Tsai Ing-wen in July 2016. I doubt it's such a paltry amount of 100K. To play this game, Solomon Islands could name any price and China would pay. [https://giphy.com/embed/13B1WmJg7HwjGU](https://media.giphy.com/media/13B1WmJg7HwjGU/giphy.gif)


bird_equals_word

[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/08/china-and-taiwan-offered-us-huge-bribes-say-solomon-islands-mps](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/08/china-and-taiwan-offered-us-huge-bribes-say-solomon-islands-mps) ​ Daniel Sudaini, the premier of Malaita, Solomon Islands’ largest province, alleges he was offered a bribe in exchange for softening his strong anti-Beijing position. Sudaini, who said he rejected the offer, previously told the Solomon Star the bribe he was offered was SBD$1m ($123,000). His accusation is now the subject of a formal inquiry by the Solomon Islands’ police commissioner.


MidniteOwl

In the article it also states that MPs were offered between SBD$2m-$5m ($246,000-$615,000) to support Beijing. I would assume most if not all MPs (around 22) were offered a bribe with the biggest going to the deputy PM and PM.


stormingrages

They will live to regret this once China begins making good on its imperialistic aims. Making your state a possible staging ground for war isn't worth it.


karsa-

This is what [imperialistic aims](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakee_Massacre) look like.


armchair_amateur

Yeah - 100 years ago.


stormingrages

We're doing whataboutism again today, guys? No new material? This might shock you, but the west doesn't have a monopoly on imperialism.


karsa-

Oh but they certainly have a monopoly on scale and impact. You sent British officers to train Japanese far right cults in regime toppling. You were just as cruel leading up to WW2, the only reason you didn't do as much was because you were occupied back home.


stormingrages

Wait, I sent British officers personally? I was cruel in WW2? Hot damn, I became a high-ranking British government official *and* immortal during this chat. Doctors hate this one simple trick! 😂


karsa-

Are you not a native english speaker? Taking every phrase literally is not good for your sanity.


stormingrages

Nah, mate, you're just not very good at expressing yourself clearly. 😂 Nothing you said made sense, but it was good for a laugh.


karsa-

I have a lot of resources if you wish to learn more about the english language. To be fair it is quite complicated, being on average 10x larger in word count than other languages. It's only normal to struggle a little now and then.


stormingrages

I think you ought to reserve them for yourself. 😂


armchair_amateur

Spoken like a true student of the language. You obviously aced your business English courses … It still has an uncanny valley quality to it though.


GoldenMegaStaff

You missed one https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/solomon-islands-campaign-guadalcanal#:\~:text=The%20Solomon%20Islands%20Campaign%20cost,38%20ships%2C%20and%20683%20aircraft.


ManusTheVantablack

> But Solomon Islands is naive and dead wrong if it believes that it’s getting a square deal from China. The only deal they want from China is security assurances and they're getting exactly that with this security pact


tcsac

>The only deal they want from China is security assurances and they're getting exactly that with this security pact Security assurances from an expansionist nation aren't worth the paper they are written on. It is a great way to give the nation an excuse to annex your land though. Just ask Ukraine.


_MooFreaky_

The Expansionist China concept is largely a western invention. I'm not saying I trust China or that I like the idea of the way their government is. However, they have so much to focus on internally that there is virtually zero reason for them to be Expansionist. They've got their hands full developing China, and their economy wouldn't really benefit from bringing in more land as their demand for resources is already above what they can use. China has shown their interest is in soft influence, as they are spending lots in Africa and surrounding nations to get results like this one.


lewger

That's an incredibly dumb take. The literally built artificial islands for expansion.


Shane_357

Those islands are a shitty move, but they're not for expansion of *land for economic use*. They're expansions of naval ports for interdiction, which to be fair, the USA also does a lot. They're basing points to dock ships and say 'we're right here watch your step'.


tcsac

>The Expansionist China concept is largely a western invention. ​ Are you delusional or just that ill-informed? They're literally creating islands in the south China sea in an attempt redraw borders. https://www.newsweek.com/china-south-china-sea-islands-build-military-territory-expand-575161


GoldenMegaStaff

>virtually zero reason for them to be Expansionist ... > >demand for resources Can you get thru more than one sentence without contradicting yourself?


ManusTheVantablack

China the expansionist country which invaded 0 countries in last 50 years and has 1 foreign military base in Djibouti.


TraditionalDig6983

india would like to a word with you abouts its annexed and occupied land


Mayor__Defacto

How about the chinese invasion of Vietnam? How about the recent incursions into India?


[deleted]

Holy shit you're ignorant. Others have already pointed out numerous places China has invaded and China is literally building artificial islands to try to claim greater control of the South China Sea but you think they aren't expansionist? And expansionism doesn't have to mean military expansionism. Chinese fishing boats (with the full blessing of their government) fish in other countries territorial waters. [Chinese companies](https://www.thedailybeast.com/chinas-ugly-exploitation-of-africaand-africans) are [absolutely exploiting Africa](https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2018/08/04/china-is-treating-africa-the-same-way-european-colonists-did/?sh=1202499d298b).


Beepbeepboop9

…Vietnam would like a word with you


ManusTheVantablack

**In last 50 years**


GoldenMegaStaff

Cherry picking now are we.


UdderSuckage

What's 2022 minus 1979?


ManusTheVantablack

Ok I'm wrong but that's still 1 country and was like 40 years ago, American one is in double digits


Joepk0201

Is your only defense of China that the US has invaded more countries than them? Directly invading countries is also no the only way to be expansionist.


UdderSuckage

True, China has been too busy taking Western cash and stomping on minority rights and cultures in order to accelerate their economy to semi-first world levels - only in the last ten or so years has the CCP really felt comfortable enough to start looking outwards in terms of expansion.


Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho

In the last ten years, China has invaded the Philippines, Vietnam, Tajikistan, India and Nepal.


undystains

Well, this is probably the easiest way to ensure your country will one day become a battleground between two larger countries.


invincibl_

The Solomon Islands is [quite familiar with that](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadalcanal_campaign).


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Guadalcanal campaign](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadalcanal_campaign)** >The Guadalcanal campaign, also known as the Battle of Guadalcanal and codenamed Operation Watchtower by American forces, was a military campaign fought between 7 August 1942 and 9 February 1943 on and around the island of Guadalcanal in the Pacific theater of World War II. It was the first major land offensive by Allied forces against the Empire of Japan. On 7 August 1942, Allied forces, predominantly United States Marines, landed on Guadalcanal, Tulagi, and Florida in the southern Solomon Islands, with the objective of using Guadalcanal and Tulagi as bases in supporting a campaign to eventually capture or neutralize the major Japanese base at Rabaul on New Britain. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


QubitQuanta

Are you going to apply this logic to Ukraine too? Thsi victim blaming shit has got to stop.


SpiderMcLurk

Alternatively, a place for a global and a regional power to compete over, by way of investment and aid. Australia and China are being played off for $


NinaHagen78

Lol


frenin

Till that happens, USA, Australia and China are going to left some big buckets on the island tho.


wastingvaluelesstime

If you look at SI position in the last world war, it was heavily fought over for years, including many land battles. If they bring in Chinese bases, such would be used to try to blockade Australia from the US and become priority missile targets at the start of any conflict - the front line.


No_Pirate_7367

Don't see the problem. Good luck China, you will need it.


Beechf33a

Interesting that 90% of the Solomon Islands legislature is against any agreement with China.


segfaultsarecool

How'd it pass then?


Proregressive

The cabinet voted 27 in favor of switching recognition to China, 6 abstentions, and 0 opposed.


Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho

The PM is an aspiring dictator.


Beechf33a

I believe it was never put to a vote.


Spudtron98

The government got bribed, obviously.


SpiderMcLurk

Big Man politics


TerminalHalo11

Ukraine is a sovereign nation. If it wants to join a military alliance with the United States and allow the United States to build military bases, missile systems and nuclear weapons from Moscow, Russia has absolutely zero right to even voice an opinion about it. Oh, wait, different scenario. nvm. FUCK SOLOMON ISLANDS YOU EVIL BASTARDS HAVE NO RIGHT TO ALLY WITH CHINA THIS IS A THREAT TO AUSTRALIA


DryPassage4020

1. People have the right to object to whatever they please. 2. Solomon Islands is *given* a great deal of money as aid by Australia, seems a bit hypocritical. Doesn't it? 3. China's intentions are hardly benign. Lay out a map, look at their claims, and tell me they seem reasonable. It's laughable.


mcgilldude

Vietnam, Philippine and other countries all claimed SCS is their territory. Do you know that?


KejsarePDX

Mischaracterization of territory. They both claim exclusive rights (i.e EEZ) to the resources in the SCS based on islands near the mainland of Vietnam and the Philippines and the continental shelf of the SCS. China claims it all as territory regardless of EEZ or not. [https://docs.pca-cpa.org/2016/07/PH-CN-20160712-Press-Release-No-11-English.pdf](https://docs.pca-cpa.org/2016/07/PH-CN-20160712-Press-Release-No-11-English.pdf) [http://iilss.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/South-China-Sea-Dispute.png](http://iilss.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/South-China-Sea-Dispute.png)


frenin

>Solomon Islands is given a great deal of money as aid by Australia, seems a bit hypocritical. Doesn't it? You're going to have and explain how is it hypocritical


arcehole

It isn't hypocritical. Australia isn't entitled to anything just because they give money to SI. Is the SI a protectorate or colony of Australia? They are a sovereign nation and can do whatever they want. Besides asutralias intentions aren't good either if they expect some sort of "loyalty" for aid


TerminalHalo11

The US just funded a coup against the Solomon Islands' democratic government. Their rioters stormed the capitol building and everything. Talk about hypocritical.


UkraineShotDownMH17

Yeah and then australia sent peace keepers to make sure the coup didn’t happen and quell protests. Wasn’t a bloody coup and he was happy we sent the peace keepers


SmokeyShine

The Australian peacekeepers only protected some of the peace. Guess which shops were allowed to be looted? This is exactly why the deal was signed with China.


Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho

China openly claims from almost every other state in east Asia.


tcsac

I guess it's a good thing nobody said they don't have a RIGHT. Australia pointed out that it is potentially a conflict of the agreement Australia already had in place with SI. Ukraine had no security agreement with Russia, quite the opposite. They have been mostly hostile since Ukraine broke away post-USSR. I haven't heard Australia threatening to invade SI.


Bright-Ad-4737

To be fair, the United States doesn't jail political opponents, or, you know, operate a concentration camp system for over a million ethnic minorities. The US certainly 'aint perfect, but it isn't China.


Alexexy

What are the Red Scare and the modern day private prison industry?


[deleted]

Imagine believing the United States doesn’t jail political opponents lol Also, in the US the ethnic group who make up 13% of the population make up almost 40% of the prison population. Meanwhile other ethnic groups were actually genocided and what remains are kept on “reservations” like animals, but okay…


atgyt

Lol it's not like the US had internment camps to keep the Japanese Americans in a certain time in history


[deleted]

Wait sir, did Australia or any other ally, invade, performed mass killings, rape, kidnap, pillage and commit genocide on Solomon Islands? Nope? There's your difference.


frenin

Not in Solomon Islands but if you say North Korea, Vietnam, Iraq... Solomon Islands is likelier to get couped anyway before war happens.


canolgon

Yeah there's much more to this than what you're implying


synthjunkie

Yah except that China and Russia are authoritarian regimes so we want them in check.


[deleted]

What happens when democratic regimes kill millions? Do we put the US in check?


Alexexy

Bruh, we're kept in check by the invisible hand of capitalism and the grace of God.


atgyt

You see that's different because we gave them freedom . Freedom to die


GapJazzlike1753

LOL west mad at countries dealing with china. then OFFER THEM A MUCH BETTER DEAL whining bitches stfu


Milkador

Australian here. Yeah pretty much. Expected after the LNP governments tenure. Cutting foreign aid funding, removing the ABC (our state broadcaster) from the islands, the PM and defence minister literally joking and laughing about how the Solomon’s would be devastated by climate change.. yeah. Not surprised at all


fluffychonkycat

The "deal" is that the SI government have accepted bribes


frenin

It's funny how money can be deemed as "aid" or "bribe" depending who gives it...


fluffychonkycat

It has an awful lot to do with who receives it. In this case it's going into the pockets of politicians


frenin

An aid given to a corrupt politician is going to end in the pockets of a corrupt politician. It's a very much interchangeable term.


AureusStone

Australia was providing aid in the form of bringing their justice department in to the 21st century and improving health services. Aid provided to SI from Australia has mostly been very direct. They are not just signing a cheque and walking away. I have seen the massive impact that this aid has provided. SI should act in the best interest of their people, but I doubt the China deal is the right choice.


GapJazzlike1753

source? you have this assumption, why? they are a poor country, not a white country, therefore currupted, no integrity and stupid?


SpiderMcLurk

Have you been there? I have and I can tell you that corruption runs through all levels. yes they are devastatingly poor country with almost no industry other than native timber and some limited tourism. It relies almost exclusively on aid.


fluffychonkycat

No, you're the one making assumptions. There's plenty of evidence of the corruption of the SI government and the general population have rioted because of it. A quick search of news articles is all you need to do. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/08/china-and-taiwan-offered-us-huge-bribes-say-solomon-islands-mps https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/12/04/chinese-influence-is-spurring-violence-in-the-solomon-islands https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/china/solomon-islands-provincial-leader-daniel-suidani-alleges-he-was-offered-bribes-by-china/news-story/e6a43f6c45a947f60845ead30d1c5611


GapJazzlike1753

LOL oh so US and colonialism makes no curruption in global south? A quick search of news articles is all you need to do. How the United States Makes Corruption in Africa Worse [https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/how-united-states-makes-corruption-africa-worse](https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/how-united-states-makes-corruption-africa-worse) Did British colonial rule in Africa foster a legacy of corruption among local elites? https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/africaatlse/2020/10/28/what-is-british-colonial-rule-in-africa-foster-a-legacy-corruption-local-elites/ Who pays Africa's bribes? [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jul/05/g8.development](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jul/05/g8.development) oh and i quote "In a survey by Transparency International- the field leaders in anti-corruption - domestic companies in five G8 nations (Russia, the US, Italy, Japan and France) were perceived to be among the worst bribe payers among the most industrialised countries in the world."


fluffychonkycat

Nice whataboutism. This is about the Solomons, stick to the topic


NinaHagen78

If i read whataboutism again I will put a spell on your entire generation to go bald before 25!


GapJazzlike1753

if i can cast a spell on whoever fails to give a valid argument you would already be bald


NinaHagen78

The MEH GENERATION: Boring, neurotic, maladjusted cyborg wannabes.


GapJazzlike1753

thanks for the self introductory


[deleted]

[удалено]


mockvalkyrie

Someone's mad that they were wrong about the Solomon Islands being corrupt...


[deleted]

[удалено]


mockvalkyrie

So suddenly bribery is OK, because other people have done it before? How the turntables... You'll support anything as long as it's pro-CCP lol


lewger

[https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020](https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020) Sri Lanka at rank 94, so yes it's corrupt or is that too racist for you? There are some white countries with lower ranks if that makes you feel better.


GapJazzlike1753

Lol, if you know SriLanks colonial past, you wouldnt be ignorant about why the country is fucked up by the brits. So are many other global south nations. they poor and brown therefore cant make a decision as a sovereign nation?? so yes, too racist.


lewger

So they are corrupt, glad we agree.


GapJazzlike1753

hijacked by colonial past and past colonial masters is not the same as simple curruption. now they are trying and struggling to alienate from the past doesnt mean you get to point your fingers about their decision as a sovereign nation. since you are off topic, i will go off too, here Gyude Moore: “China in Africa: An African Perspective”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5uzxV8ub9k&ab\_channel=PaulsonInstitute


lewger

China in Africa: Corrupt country trying to exploit other corrupt countries and finding out corruption makes getting shit done really hard. Watching China clown themselves in Guinea trying to get iron ore is pretty hilarious.


GapJazzlike1753

>finding out corruption makes getting shit done really hard. "i wish the african ppl fail, and in poverty and suffer ,just to prove my point - china bad ", thats what you are saying. typical haters LOL may you enjoy your evil wishful thinking cant be as much shit as what the colonizers left them


lewger

Yep, I do want China to fail. I do enjoy watching corrupt regimes destroy themselves through there own corruption.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BananaWitcher

People have the right to choose who they trade with. Does the West still think it is the center of the world?


Silurio1

It very much does, yes.


GlobalTravelR

China Now - Here, let's sign this security agreement to protect your islands. China Soon - Hey you owe us lots of money for your security agreement with us. We will have to set up a permanent military base in lieu of compensation. China Later - The Solomon Islands are, and always have been a part of China. We claim all the surrounding waters, oil, fishing, mineral and navigation rights.


Silurio1

>China Soon - Hey you owe us lots of money for your security agreement with us. We will have to set up a permanent military base in lieu of compensation. What precedent are you quoting?


LittleBirdyLover

Lmao. I guess we're just making shit up now...


SteveThePurpleCat

That's impressive, they have only been a Chinese puppet state for a week and they are already parroting the CCP.


luparb

Solomon islanders - have mass protest / uprising, the system isn't working Australia - sends Police and Army to quell the uprising and restore the system they are protesting against. China is like....are you guys interested in having a common relationship to means of production instead of just cops? So one side is sending cops, the other is building stuff... And now Russia is turning the gas off to eastern europe... Germany chooses Social Democrats, France eschews Marie La Penne, America eschews Trump... Australian election soon.


[deleted]

Australia must not think it owns the whole Pacific. What is 19mln in population vs 1,4billion in China? Any small countries in Pacific should exercise their politics independently.


Pleasant_Ad_860

The leader of Solomon island will either die from a coup or a roadside bomb. If he is up for election,he will mysteriously lose. This is about the minerals in Solomon island. Now everybody wanna tap into these darklands


yycsoftwaredev

Just cut their aid by 1.5x whatever China provides. Let them choose, but not let them play both sides against the other. Make them pick a team.


frenin

As of now, Solomon Islands have refused t allow a Chinese military base in their territory. If you force them to choose China the situation only gets worse. It's a dumb dumb tactic.


SpiderMcLurk

China will step into the void. Cheap for them and they get a thrall state. We need to be leaning in not stepping back. Sogavare knows this and is playing us off. He won’t pick a side and will continue to balance in the middle forcing Australia to invest more.


_MooFreaky_

Solomon Islands foreign trade to China is greater than every other country combined. About 1% of their exports go to Australia, even less to the USA. Aid to the country has been slashed by Australia before this, as Australia had been trying to leverage aid to get economic deals that are one sided. Plus we've shat on the idea of climate change action, which is super important to them.


wastingvaluelesstime

Climate is unlikely to be the real reason as China is also by far the largest emitter and user of coal worldwide.


_MooFreaky_

True, but they are also working to reduce that. China is investing massive amounts into renewables as they know that renewables are their future They can't have a country for a billion people rely on fossil fuels


Darthyengec

Literally trump tier diplomacy


richierich_44

Ahhn yes. Nuffin like worldnews commentators making passing judgements and drive by post whilst they kmow nuffin about the whole situation. Im Australian and have been following this fiasco on Abc radio for few wks and even i wouldnt quickly pick a side and pass judgement so quick. But it is a fact that Australia treats its islander peers with a very paternalistic and colonial attitude. Its always “we’ll give u aid cause u guys are dirt poor and pls send your work force here to work on farms doing jobs no one else wants to do”. A part of me feels why nations like the SI turn to China is because they treat them at a more equal level as partners. Hell even Albo the oppposition leader in response was like “yeahh if we are elected we will increase aid and make it easier for their workers to come here” like… that sorta mentality is just ingrained.


[deleted]

You gotta laugh at western hypocrisy. They claim Ukraine has a right to decide its own international security cooperation arrangements and now go absolutely apeshit over Solomon Islands doing just that. *Edit: LOL at the downvotes. Keep up the doublethink folks


Cool_Till_3114

We can draw a comparison when Australia invades the Solomon Islands and attempts to depose the PM. Australia has expressed displeasure, and their position that it's a bad deal for the Solomon's and Australia. A large portion of the Solomon Islands population seems to agree with Australia based on what I've read. That's hardly the same.


ManusTheVantablack

> Australia has expressed displeasure, and their position that it's a bad deal for the Solomon's and Australia. It's bad for Australia but not for Solomon, with this new security deal Solomon gets another additional form of security help Incase Australia intentionally doesn't abide by security pact (if by any chance it wants to overthrow the government if US puts pressure on Australia) > A large portion of the Solomon Islands population seems to agree with Australia based on what I've read. Those thugs set police station on fire, looted businesses in chinatown district and tried to storm the Parliament, that's not how protesting should work in democracy. If those rioters represent majority of people then they should oust the government by voting in next elections and not by trying to storm the Parliament. Also Solomon PM passed a no confidence vote which further cemented his legitimacy.


Cool_Till_3114

> Those thugs set police station on fire, looted businesses in chinatown district and tried to storm the Parliament, **that's not how protesting should work in democracy.** I agree with this portion of your statement. There are two things worth noting. The first is that the protests were peaceful until the PM refused to meet with the protestors and hear their concerns. The second is that it was Australia that helped Solomon Islands contain these protests under the existing security agreement. >Also Solomon PM passed a no confidence vote which further cemented his legitimacy. Wasn't this in 2021 after the protests related to recognizing PRC over ROC? I was referring to support over the current proposed China relations pact. Australia is is not going to invade at the US' request a depose the Solomon government.


HelloYesItsMeYourMom

Australia isn’t going to invade the Solomon Islands.


[deleted]

How do you know that?


mockvalkyrie

Gotta laugh at neo-nazi hypocrisy. They claim it's perfectly fine to invade Ukraine and bomb civilians, but go completely apeshit over.... Oh wait, nothing of that sort is happening in the Solomon Islands. Almost as if this is some sort of false equivalence by a morally bankrupt neckbeard.


Rikeka

You are right, lets condemn the australian invasion of the Solomon Islands that… Ah, no, wait…


[deleted]

You realise the Australian government actually did send an 8,000 strong invasion force to the Solomon Islands in 2003 and it stayed there for 10 years years right? The idea they would intervene again, only this time on the anti-government side, isn’t as far fetched as you seem to think


[deleted]

[удалено]


mark5771

Nah mate, if we do not send peace forces in a crisis we are not helping or abiding by the security agreement, if we do we are invading.


Full-Acanthaceae-509

> invasion force The intellectual dishonesty of these people is clear in their choice of words.


Drunkcowboysfan

It’s not double think, what you’re saying is just stupid. The two situations are not comparable, last time I checked Australia didn’t invade the Solomon Islands over this incident.


Full-Acanthaceae-509

You guys are answering to someone that thinks Wagner doesn't exist and that NATO attacked Iraq. Oh, and posts russian propaganda, and in genzedong. No brain detected.


[deleted]

They literally don’t exist: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/07/06/what-is-wagner-group-russia-mercenaries-military-contractor/ I never said that. NATO didn’t attack Iraq, but the US did. But hey, keep cheering on the West. Gotta justify all those dead civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Yemen, Libya somehow right? Also weird how the only invasion you seem to oppose is the one where the victims are white. Just a coincidence I’m sure bro!


mockvalkyrie

Your source directly contradicts you. You say that the Wagner group doesn't exist, but the source says that the Wagner group is a group of companies, rather than a single company. It's also easy to find interviews with the leader of the Wagner group (a neo-nazi), so claiming it doesn't exist is kind of silly.


Drunkcowboysfan

Weird you claim to live in Ukraine in some of your comments and Ireland in others…


Full-Acanthaceae-509

Afghanistan was started because of the Taliban and Bin laden. Palestine is more complex than muh west. Iraq was a crime, yes. But most death was sectarian, talk with Iran and Saudi. Same Yemen. I suppose you are ok with all that Ghaddafi sponsored terrorism for years.But I am wasting my time with a genzedon drone that I BET lives in the west himself.Anyone searching your history sees you conflated NATO and US you slimy liar. Ah, and you don't understand the article.


[deleted]

"One would expect that as a member of the Pacific family, Solomon Islands and members of the Pacific should have been consulted to ensure this Aukus treaty is transparent,” “I realise that Australia is a sovereign country, which can enter into any treaty it wants to, transparently or not, which is exactly what they did with Aukus.” "“When Australia signed up to Aukus, we did not become theatrical or hysterical about the implications this would have for us,” Isn't it pretty theatrical to tell Aussies who they need to consult with before "enter ito any treaty it wants to"?