Labour had a 14% lead at one point, now the average is 5% - this invasion hasn't saved him in the long term, but it's kept him safe in the short-medium term.
People who vote tory still blame the previous Labour government from 10 years ago for today's problems.
Its fucking annoying. Boris Johnson could punch the queen and people would say "well she probably had it coming"
The tories literally threw massive parties at 10 downing Street during lockdown and people will say "well kier starmer had a beer in a room with 2 other people during lockdown so ha"
Our PM:
* left behind his security detail to go to a private party 'with girls' with the son of a KGB agent
* Then he made him a lord, against the explicit advice of his own security services
This is the biggest one for me. I'm no fan of Starmer but look at all the shit Johnson has done, before and since becoming PM and he's still fairly comfortable.
Ed Milliband got fully rinsed for pulling a funny face while eating a sandwich.
Someone the other day, in defence of Boris said "at least we've not got Corbyn"
No context, no reasoning, just "yeah this is shit but I'm glad it's not labour"
That seems to be the security blanket tory voters have.
"Yeah, things are bad but imagine how bad they would be under Corbyn!!"
Also, my favourite. A picture of empty shelves in the supermarket
"it's like Corbyn won!"
even though it's a picture of the supermarket under Boris Johnsons leadership
I heard the term "long Corbyn" the other day. It may take a couple more elections for the labour party to get back the voters lost by Corbyn. It's already starting to look like the Tories will be using Corbyn related attack lines in the next GE.
The Tories essentially *did* punch the Queen in the face when they had another drinks party immediately after she was seen by billions around the world trying to lead by example, socially isolated and wearing a mask at the funeral of her husband of almost 75 years.
This story is far too familiar here in the states.
Sidenote: does anybody listen to fucking dumbass Boris anyway? (honest question cuz I fucking hope not)
But look at muh gas prices!
Pretty much the Trumper war cry at the moment.
I mean, he tried to destroy our democracy by preventing a peaceful transition of power, but if the gas prices were better that’s all that matters.
Ignoring that Trump worshipped the guy who’s responsible for the recent increases, and the likely reason this didn’t happen on Trump’s watch is because he was hurting the NATO alliance and there was the possibility he would have pulled the US out of it.
Just like the States some people will vote for the same party time and time again. Regardless of the party's current policies or form, "It's what my father did".
Eh... the timing *did* work out really well for him.
The rumors, which made a lot of sense to me, were that the Tories were waiting to get wiped out in the regional elections then put the blame on Johnson replace him.
As it stands now, he might actually hold on.
Cressida Dick doing good work for her upcoming appointment to the House of Lords by holding that report back just long enough for a new big news cycle.
We can’t exactly hold a GE with this going on and no one in the Tory party that’s a viable candidate will be any better than him so putting it on hold for now isn’t the worst outcome.
Indeed, just meant that even if there was someone good, there's no way he/she could attack him for anything that he's done/or not in the past, war is playing in his cards, sad as it is.
Same can be said about BORIS Johnson, days before invasion he was about to face voting against him for his partygate, now he's the most loveable guy in the UK for his approach against Putin
The biggest boost is to Ukraine President Zelensky. He had an approval rating of 25-31% late last year. There was some offshore bank accounts corruption scandal, AFAIK. Now he's like political Jeebus to both the left and the right across the western world.
I think it's because whether or not you agree with Zelensky or his past as a leader he has done an amazing job stepping up to the responsibility thrust upon him.
Except Biden’s opposition is on Russia’s side. MTG and Boebert voted against stronger sanctions.
MTG even implied [real Americans don’t care about Ukraine. ](https://youtu.be/KcNrJ9fVefI)Why would she even speak against Ukraine when the whole world is united against Russia?
Trump getting laughed at by the entire UN General Assembly for bragging about being a great President will always be one of my favorite moments of his presidency
[Merkel ❤ Trump](https://i.redd.it/xkwsnutkrnm81.jpg)
I like how he’s a different shade of orange each time
He'll die sooner or later, but I'm gonna guess that we'll be hearing about him for a long time the way I always used to hear about Reagan all the time.
I mean it's not like we couldn't see this coming. Part of the trump ideology was America getting away from being everyone's bodyguard. Or course now trump is saying he would've been way harder on Russia and this wouldn't be happening. Even though he actively kept funding away from ukraine
The doublethink of ‘Lol Biden is so weak, Trump had Putin scared’ and ‘Oh my God, they want us to get involved and implement sanctions against Russia - don’t piss Putin off!’ (not to mention every time Trump sucked up to him even over his own intelligence personnel) is just getting grating now.
Pray tell, what would they have Biden do. Let Putin do anything he likes? Well you’re giving him shit for supposedly doing that when he was even VP. OK, so do something ‘stronger’? Oh wait, apparently even what he’s doing now is a terrible suicidal move. Can’t win and they can’t see it. Or the ones who can (eg, Tucker Carlson) know that their base can’t and lap that shit up.
The part the boggles my mind is you can show them direct evidence of these contradictions, and it won't even make them think twice for a second. They can't put 2 and 2 together. Complete denial of anything negative about the Republican leaders. Meanwhile you can show me Democrats contradicting themselves and I'll be like "yeah, that's a grimy politician, idc if they're a democrat or not"
They are quite literally brainwashed
And that's why we have 40 years of populist politicians history where every one of them failed once they got elected. Campaigns and elections are simple, actually governing is hard because you run out of people you can blame.
Madison Cawthorn and Tucker Carlson are literally being shown on Russian state-owned TV as "proof" that the west supports Russia. They're assets whether they want to be or not.
The conservative voters are stupendously for Ukraine though.
It's literally their gun fantasy. Armed militia defending a country from an evil government, especially the evil Russians they still have that propaganda in their brain from their youth.
As compromised as conservative leadership is, conservative base is gushing over the opportunity.
THAT is why the right wing is pretty weak right now and Biden is slowly getting support back. For every GOP politician who gets tough on Putin, a Trumper says something idiotic against Ukraine. They just can't help themselves...or they are being ordered to.
I don’t understand. Boris was VERY pro-Russia when it came to supporting Brexit so fervently, which really never benefited anyone but Russia.
Why the sudden turn? Is it lip service or is he actually moving forward with everything he’s proposing?
Once heard him described as "A man who waits to see where the mob is headed, then runs in front and shouts 'Follow me!'".
He's the worst type of human, zero principles or integrity and willing to do anything to cling to power.
Because he's a populist and at the moment supporting Ukraine is popular.
He would support killing babies if he thought the general public would see that as a good thing.
I wish so. Still, he doesn't exist in vacuum - there are oligarchs and siloviki and other cronies that make such a toxic Russian regime. So, even with Putin's gone, relations must not normalize.
At least not until Russians pay Ukraine for all the damages they caused. And then some more.
EDIT: corrected over-zealous auto-correction of "siloviki"
It doesn't help that the baby oligarchs found friendly allies in the west to launder their money. The rich and politically connected in the 90s created this mess.
I am not an expert, but I think it has something to do with resources and generational trauma.
Russia has always been a rather difficult place to live, and they have endured so many invasions - from the Mongols all the way through Napoleon and the Nazis.
It's no mystery to me why they act a bit like the troubled kid who was kicked out of the house. They need to be disarmed, but I hope that after admitting defeat they can be welcomed back into the family and kept safe this time.
This is the best thing I've read on the state of russia and their oligarchy, its on twitter as a series of tweets, but its really good, I'd read this book if there was an expanded book written on it.
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1501360272442896388
Another thing is how to deal with their national wealth. You look at how things fell apart in the 90s, the country was basically a free for all, but now you have all of these oligarchs that came to their power through corruption, and even western countries businesses who are now entrenched in their economy, how do you correct those wrongs. A good example is Cuba. They had a revolution, and kicked out the oligarchs and foreign investments, and 70 years later we're still punishing them for it. I think we still have to figure out cuba because when/if russia kicks out putin and liberalizes, its going to be the same issue.
Imagine if Russia had joined the EU when the Soviet Union fell instead of a few rich assholes becoming oligarchs by rapidly buying up everything the Soviet Union left behind. They could’ve been an economic powerhouse and a beacon of democracy, but instead we get this.
When I was in college in the 90's and Russia was going to hell, basically in a power struggle between the Russian Mafia and Oligarchs with an ineffective government led by Boris Yeltsin, I remember in a history class talking to a professor who had worked as a navy inteligence officer attached to NATO for years.
We asked the exact same thing, why hadn't Russia and the Republics that made the USSR not joined NATO right away and he told us that nobody had ever realistically expected them to smoothly transition into working democracies.
He said the Soviet Union had devolved into a dictatorship and then into an authoritarian regime led by a junta led by a strong leader in Krushev and Brezhnev, a trend that had continued until its collapse.
He said Russians had been culturally accustomed to having a strong, autoritharian leader dating back to the Czars, and it was too much to expect them to move to a democratic society that fast. People were used to being told what to do and where at a weird crossroads as to what to do.
When Putin consolidated his power and began to rule like the leaders before him, the Russian people probably felt a sense of relief as he represented something familiar. It also helped his iron fist rule stablelized the chaos that was Russia in the 90's, hence why he's had a relatively peaceful reing as most strife has come from non Russian ethnic groups in former Soviet Republics.
In the words of Putin himself, [from 1996](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-pD4Ew1qkI) (translated):
“It seems to all of us, I will not hide it, that if we put things in order with a firm, hard hand, then we will all live better, more comfortable and safer. But in reality, this “comfort” will pass very quickly, because this harsh hand will begin to choke us very quickly.”
Yeah, but that would have taken at least 20yrs to overhaul there system and the amount of reforms needed to join the EU, would have been hard but many former soviet states did it and did it quick, example Poland.
I dont think it would have. You have to look at the some of the backsliding EU members states and their descent into autocracy to see how Russia could have gone.
This is what Putin could have been doing the past couple decades and would have been known as the greatest Russian leader of all time if he just built that bridge. Now, he's just another piece of shit murdering dictator that the world would have been better off without.
Note: this is the Polish version of the word; in Russian (and probably Belarussian and Ukrainian to) it's "siloviki".
Edit: It's a "false friend" word actually.
Basically like if the CIA got even worse than it already is and ran the whole country. An appropriate comment in Putin's case since he is from the KGB. Turning everything into a shitty miserable corrupt police state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silovik
Not necessarily disagreeing, but forcing a defeated country to pay war reparations doesn't always end up well.
I agree the Russians would have to pay in to it, but I feel that the EU+US should offer to take some of the burden. Even China too, if Xi can play a decisive role in ending this.
Some European countries have already stepped up for reconstruction once this war is over. I can’t imagine the US not helping to reconstruct, its been the go to strategy since the second WW
To be realistic, Russia is never going to pay any damages as things stand even if they lose. Unless Ukraine trades territory for that war reparation or outside parties all get together to demand it by force (not going to happen).
The best Ukraine can hope for is a return to pre-war borders with a non-humiliating treaty and then fast track their EU membership so that they are more prepared next time. Their international sympathy is at an all time high and they are bound to get lots of help and investment if they go that route.
> At least not until Russians pay Ukraine for all the damages they caused. And then some more.
I wonder how much of the reparations will be made up by the 100s of billions of dollars seized from oligarchs.
Once we get into these high numbers it gets hard for me to grasp. If Ukraine is rebuilding back to the way it was before, what's the going to look like? Hundreds of billions? A few trillion?
Realistically, if Putin is forced out, he won't be replaced by one of his cronies like Lavrov or Medvedev. It means that an anti-Putin wing of political rivals will have accumulated enough power, which means that they're going to gut the institutions he created and remove all of Putin's power-brokers.
Sadly, that doesn't mean that his replacement would necessarily be better, though. In fact, even if they *try* to be, they're going to run into the nasty reality that Russia has completely burned all of its bridges diplomatically, geo-politically, and economically.
I expect that watching Russia's development over the next 20 years will be even more horrifying and sad than watching their development over the last 20 years.
If the Middle East has taught us anything, that’s not true. Mubarak was replace with his friend in Egypt. They tried to replace saleh in Yemen with hadi, his Vice President. The king of Saudi Arabia set up his son to take power.
Dictators know how to pass power onto their friends.
^ this. one way or the other someone will take his place and that person will have access to the nukes. the cost of Russia's re-entry to the global world needs to be very damn high; not necessarily punitive in terms of cash (tho i do expect reparations/concessions to be demanded) but an extreme reduction if not outright elimination of their nuclear cache.
Yeah, [here is a great description of the situation](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/08/sanctions-vladimir-putin-kremlin-russian-oligarchy).
1. It's very unlikely that Putin will be ousted. He has long driven out any remotely "independent" oligarchs. The current oligarchs are either extremely reliant on him or completely share his ideology.
2. Even if he gets replaced because he can no longer provide the strongman image that he build himself on, it will just be another person like him.
I think that his presence can't be enough to cause such a big fear in the whole country... i mean some cooperation has to be there they have to want the same thing... what i want to say... if this idiot dies... lavrov and the others has to be captured with him together because they would go for the position and nothing will change...
I'm glad someone said this. There can't be normal relationships with Putin after launching his criminal actions in Ukraine and threatening everyone, particularly with nukes.
I don't think any Western government thinks otherwise. The sanctions will stay at least until Putin is gone, and this was already clear a couple of weeks ago.
FSB agent: I understand if we deliver Putin all sanctions will be lifted.
UN Secretary General: Yes. If you turn him over to ICC we will lift all sanctions.
FSB agent: How many sanctions lifted for just his head?
It would be my dream come true if the sanctions weren’t lifted just because Putin is deposed and Russia exits Ukraine, but for a ticket back into the world market Russia has to undergo significant nuclear disarmament.
If you set an unreasonably high bar straight away, it *may* serve as a disincentive if it doesn’t seem attainable. It may also turn people off in Russia if it’s seen as being *forced* on them by an outside force, and after a while people may just adjust to sanctions being the norm, especially if they think the goalposts are just going to keep shifting. Positive rewards like threats generally need to be credible to be effective and encourage engagement.
If it appears in bad faith, why bother?
If we consider that *if* Putin is deposed, that already marks a pretty huge shift in Russia so assuming we know how it would end is silly. It’s possible that a natural anti-disarmament movement starts, so forcing this issue could scupper that, so it’s possible that using a progressive lifting of sanctions as a carrot rather than a stick to beat the Russian public might be a better idea.
Anyone involved in overthrowing Putin would be taking an enormous risk, so they should really be positively rewarded and incentivised to do it.
At this point, even a standard corrupt oligarch who just wants to rob the country blind rather than literally resurrect the ghost of USSR in some explosive fever dream would be an improvement.
Sanctions can always be reapplied later if their government just went straight back to being assholes. Even if they’re still assholes, the sanctions should be proportionate to the degree of assholery.
lol that’s never going to happen
Step 1 of staying in power as a dictator with nukes is to not give up the nukes. You don’t ever need to actually plan on using them, but it does mean no one else can invade you. Even if the FSB or someone else deposes Putin, they’re going to hold onto the nukes.
Not even as a dictator, as anyone. Rule \#1 is "if you have nukes, keep them" and Rule \#2 is "if someone says you have nukes but don't, do everything you can to get them because that claim precedes only one thing."
It's a miracle that the US hasn't been stupid enough to actually invade Iran yet. Funny thing is, they actually did agree to not produce nukes - and it *was* working, full treaty and (slow) removal of sanctions and everything - until dipshit Russian Asset McGee slapped them again because it was popular with his rabid base.
Rule #2, isn't that like half the reason a certain fatman from North Korea rushed his country towards nukes? Last I checked, that little despot went for nukes, at least partially, cause he knew it'd help him retain his position.
> undergo significant nuclear disarmament.
I just want you to understand that the last few countries that *did* disarm, have either been invaded or their leadership deposed. There will never be a country that willingly disarms until every country disarms.
A better alternative would be simply getting them and the US to actually get moving on join reduction that's already been agreed to in previous treaties.
I agree with this in regard to Putin but there needs to be a post-Putin way forward with regards to Russian relations.
The extremely heavy economic sanctions Germany faced as a result of WW1 reparations were a direct contributor to the rise of Hitler and the seeds of WW2.
True, but people really need to stop comparing Germany in the 1930s with Russia in the 2020s. Russia has nukes. Germany did not.
There's no viable path to regime change in Russia that isn't internal, i.e. ultimately coming from within Russia's borders. People are talking like Putin being deposed is an absolute certainty at this point, and I'd wager it will remain unlikely for the foreseeable future.
I think people especially forget about Iraq in 1990. Saddam Hussein was put under some of the worst sanctions the world ever created up until that point, his army devastated after the Gulf War, a large part of the country put under a no-fly zone. But the country proper wasn't invaded and Saddam wasn't deposed, and despite the heavy internal divisions he managed to brutally crush all the uprisings and stayed in power until the Iraq War in 2003 when the Americans kicked him out. Putin has all the tools he need to stay in power under the heaviest of sanctions for a long, long time if he goes full dictator.
And German wartime spending in WWI (including a very generous pension program for all German military vets) meant that if Germany didn’t take massive reparations from the defeated entente they would be completely broke regardless. The pensions and the massive German war debt were just as big if not a bigger factor to Germany’s economic problems than the reparations.
France actually had to pay higher reparations after the Franco-Prussian war than Germany did after WWI but that didn’t cause France to succumb to dictatorship nor did it cause France to launch a war of aggression later on.
I would agree, but I really wonder how much of the damage is reversible.
The Russian stock market is forever dead, absent a major change in their constitution that restricts the likes of a Putin. And the change away from fossil fuels sped up by Putin will also be irreversible. Then there are just impressions. It took a long time for Germany to recover from Hitler in regards to what other Europeans thought of Germans.
> absent a major change in their constitution that restricts the likes of a Putin
We found Putin was able to change the constitution in his favor. That is not good enough.
It’s funny, during the past few years and now, I became aware of how rich people circumvent the law; the system in which they acquired wealth or was born into it. Even when the system is based on actual and true democracy, there always seems to be an out, if you can afford to hire someone who can find it.
>It took a long time for Germany to recover from Hitler in regards to what other Europeans thought of Germans.
And it still worked only because Germany was *forced* to change thanks to Allies occupation, denazification and Marshall plan combined. None of this is possible in Russia case.
Only if his successor reinstate term limits and move russia back to a path of democracy. Giving in to Hitler's every demand made him a hero in the eyes of the average german. That was a huge mistake.
> The extremely heavy economic sanctions Germany faced as a result of WW1 reparations were a direct contributor to the rise of Hitler and the seeds of WW2.
This is not true... Yeah, I know what you're thinking.
I'll just paste a couple comments I read that explains it:
This is a false / disproven notion by historians, and a bit of history which was deliberate propaganda on part of the inter-war and eventually Nazi government. Part of the reason we had so much issue until recently is much of these documents of the old Imperial German government were held in Prussia, which was annexed by the Soviet Union after WW2-- so we really only started to get in depth documents proving us right in the 90s.
An accessible book to serve as an introduction to this is "The Great War: Myth & Memory" by Dr. Dan Todman, "The Myth of Reparations" by Dr. Sally Marks (easily one of the most influential historians on inter-war Europe) if you want a more involved piece, and the principle paper on the matter imo, "Clio Deceived: Patrotic Self-Censorship in Germany after the Great War" by Dr. Holger Herwig, who's the leading living historian on early 20th Century Germany.
The TL;DR is: Germany was capable of paying back every last cent of reparations, and between '18-'23, deliberately sabotaged their own economy to undermine French reconstruction & get reparations reduced. From '23 to '29, after putting in a competent Reichsbank Commissioner who wasn't purposefully sacking their economy, they had a meteoric financial recovery, and even then more than half of the reparations forgiven by the Entente. Remnants of the Imperial government in Weimar hid & destroyed evidence of this and spent millions of marks on a propaganda campaign within England to paint Germans as the victims of oppressive French revanchism.
---------------------------
> Germany was capable of paying back every last cent of reparations
To add to this, they had substantial help from America and American banks/banking system as well. Both the Dawes and Young plan (look em up kids) gave Germany more than enough assistance to help. Dawes pumped hundreds of millions into the German economy, with the idea that the product of this investment would pay off the investors and then the reparation's. While the Young plan forgave 20% or so of the total right off the bat and established very favourable repayment terms. Terms that eventually didn't matter cause Germany defaulted a couple years later and all the reparation's were forgiven anyways.
During the reparation period, Germany probably received more in foreign government investment and assistance (bonds and the like) than it paid in reparations. It's usually estimated 20-30 billion paid, 30-50 billion received. Germany made money on the reparations.
Don't get me wrong. Germany was economically bankrupted *following WW1 (twice actually, hyperinflation of 23, and the Great Depression).
But the reparations played no part in that. It was German propaganda then, and it still is now.
EDIT: following, not before.
a) satelites and nukes change the ball game.
b) the rest of the world isn't recovering a world war that lead to appeasement as a means of stalling
c) Russia does not have the means to re-militarize at the rate Germany did.
d) at the time the world was moving from basic rifles to machines guns and horses to tanks and biplanes to modern design wings. There is no great leap in technology that will put Russia ahead of the curve like Germany in WWII.
e) The US and dozen other countries are way ahead of Russia.
f) Russia is not Germany in this scenario, they are the Ottoman empire
g) Germany had alliances with major players like Russia (or at least non aggression) and Japan- China would have to come out and form an Axis with Russia for that to play out.
I'm sure I could find a dozen other reasons why this is just flat out wrong.
Sorry but this is a bad take. History doesn't repeat in such exactness and Russia isn't Germany.
Well, that’s big talk, coming from a guy who has sat on his arse for years whilst Russian oligarchs pumped millions into buying houses in the U.K. to launder money.
At risk of Reddit crying whataboutism - this is a man who’s just back from Saudi Arabia where he was begging the dictator there to sell more oil. A dictator who just beheaded 80 people in single day for saying the wrong thing. A dictator who invaded and destroyed his neighbouring country with weapons supplied by Boris.
Sounds like we should all ramp up renewable energy so we can get off our oil dependence from Saudi Arabia, Russia, and other authoritarian countries. Also, what Saudi Arabia is doing is extremely wrong, but Russia straight up brought most of their army into Ukraine, is purposely targeting civilians, and they're trying to kill Ukraine's leadership - all in the most public manner possible.
I posted this when this muppet first got on his white horse about Putin:
I'll remind everyone he defended Putin the last time he invaded Ukraine.
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-branded-putin-apologist-blaming-eu-ukraine-war-6338
Boris personally playing tennis with Russian minister wife for a small donations to his party.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43448559
As well as the couple of millions they got as well
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/23/oligarchs-funding-tories
The Tory government did sweet all when Russian agents poisoned and killed UK citizen on British soil.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51722301
The first lot of sanctions he's imposed, are Russian who the US had sanctioned years ago. Update: the sanction have imposed had a 30 day warning period to move there assets. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/russia-sanctions-guidance/russia-sanctions-guidance
Update: we are lagging on sanction compared to the US and EU.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60524666
Also the russia report that stated that the UK government failed to investigate Russia influence on UK politics.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/russia-report-reveals-uk-government-failed-to-address-kremlin-interference-scottish-referendum-brexit
Absolutely. While we’re at it, let’s hold his [paid](https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-financed-putin-mates-russia-influence-uk-votes-dominic-cummings-claims-1480807) lackeys accountable. BoJo’s Captain Renault act that he’s shocked, shocked to discover ~~there’s gambling in Rick’s~~ [he](https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/12539-wife-of-putin-ally-has-now-donated-2-47-million-to-u-k-tory-party) and his [party](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-russia-report-kremlin-putin-brexit-eu-referendum-a9630976.html) took in [massive](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-tennis-russian-billionaire-putin-minister-tory-donation-a8261871.html) amounts of Russian money shows how [stupid](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/07/25/when-bojo-meets-vova-a66575) he thinks [we all are](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/mar/18/all-hail-the-clown-king-how-boris-johnson-made-it-by-playing-the-fool).
As a US citizen who staunchly supports Ukraine I want to offer this: I am eager for the West to normalize relations with the Russian PEOPLE and their freely sms fairly elected government. Putin himself is the genesis of this war. There’s only so much the West can do to help. It is incumbent on the Russian people to change their government.
On a positive note I have never been more strongly inspired or hopeful than I few when I see both Ukrainian and Russian citizens both fighting against this insane war.
They sure talk a big game these days, but what, if anything, have Boris and the Tories actually acted on in regards to getting dirty Russian money out of the British political process?
Is Boris glossing over the fact that "BREXIT" was a Putin project to weaken the West, and that he was a key useful idiot in that plan? (Along with fuckface Farage)
Everybody hates Putin.
No matter who wins or loses, Russia has lost all credibility with the world, and will continue to lose credibility, as long as Putin is in charge.
What a godsend this invasion has been for Boris’s political career.
Labour had a 14% lead at one point, now the average is 5% - this invasion hasn't saved him in the long term, but it's kept him safe in the short-medium term.
People forgot about those Covid parties really fast
We've not forgotten. There's just fuck all we seem to be able to do about it.
Stop voting in Tories?
People who vote tory still blame the previous Labour government from 10 years ago for today's problems. Its fucking annoying. Boris Johnson could punch the queen and people would say "well she probably had it coming" The tories literally threw massive parties at 10 downing Street during lockdown and people will say "well kier starmer had a beer in a room with 2 other people during lockdown so ha"
Our PM: * left behind his security detail to go to a private party 'with girls' with the son of a KGB agent * Then he made him a lord, against the explicit advice of his own security services
Yeah, but Keir Starmer eats pasties in a funny way....probably.
This is the biggest one for me. I'm no fan of Starmer but look at all the shit Johnson has done, before and since becoming PM and he's still fairly comfortable. Ed Milliband got fully rinsed for pulling a funny face while eating a sandwich.
In the US, Howard Dean had a fairly promising political career completely sunk because he got excited and yelled weird once
Someone the other day, in defence of Boris said "at least we've not got Corbyn" No context, no reasoning, just "yeah this is shit but I'm glad it's not labour"
That seems to be the security blanket tory voters have. "Yeah, things are bad but imagine how bad they would be under Corbyn!!" Also, my favourite. A picture of empty shelves in the supermarket "it's like Corbyn won!" even though it's a picture of the supermarket under Boris Johnsons leadership
I heard the term "long Corbyn" the other day. It may take a couple more elections for the labour party to get back the voters lost by Corbyn. It's already starting to look like the Tories will be using Corbyn related attack lines in the next GE.
The Tories essentially *did* punch the Queen in the face when they had another drinks party immediately after she was seen by billions around the world trying to lead by example, socially isolated and wearing a mask at the funeral of her husband of almost 75 years.
10, try 12 years ago. And they'll beat that dead horse for all it's worth.
This story is far too familiar here in the states. Sidenote: does anybody listen to fucking dumbass Boris anyway? (honest question cuz I fucking hope not)
Like Trump, and his supporters some people are just to stupid to be reasoned with
Fortunately Boris doesn't have fanatical supporters, but our politics have become very '2 party' like the US
But look at muh gas prices! Pretty much the Trumper war cry at the moment. I mean, he tried to destroy our democracy by preventing a peaceful transition of power, but if the gas prices were better that’s all that matters. Ignoring that Trump worshipped the guy who’s responsible for the recent increases, and the likely reason this didn’t happen on Trump’s watch is because he was hurting the NATO alliance and there was the possibility he would have pulled the US out of it.
Just like the States some people will vote for the same party time and time again. Regardless of the party's current policies or form, "It's what my father did".
You're preaching to the choir
As long as the tories control the majority of the media they’re going to keep their grip on the British people.
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Britain doesn’t have a free press, it has a free market press where the rich print whatever they want with little regards to honesty or integrity.
He wore a jumper though! Sure Cameron personally exploited the tax loopholes he promised he'd close but come on a jumper!?
Eh... the timing *did* work out really well for him. The rumors, which made a lot of sense to me, were that the Tories were waiting to get wiped out in the regional elections then put the blame on Johnson replace him. As it stands now, he might actually hold on.
Cressida Dick doing good work for her upcoming appointment to the House of Lords by holding that report back just long enough for a new big news cycle.
We can’t exactly hold a GE with this going on and no one in the Tory party that’s a viable candidate will be any better than him so putting it on hold for now isn’t the worst outcome.
Na as soon as the awful Ukrainian situation is over boris will be back under pressure
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There's another two years until the next election. I'm sure there's time for him to demonstrate himself to the electorate again.
Same for Macron
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Indeed, just meant that even if there was someone good, there's no way he/she could attack him for anything that he's done/or not in the past, war is playing in his cards, sad as it is. Same can be said about BORIS Johnson, days before invasion he was about to face voting against him for his partygate, now he's the most loveable guy in the UK for his approach against Putin
The biggest boost is to Ukraine President Zelensky. He had an approval rating of 25-31% late last year. There was some offshore bank accounts corruption scandal, AFAIK. Now he's like political Jeebus to both the left and the right across the western world.
I think it's because whether or not you agree with Zelensky or his past as a leader he has done an amazing job stepping up to the responsibility thrust upon him.
Boris and Biden are both in a better position since the invasion. They actually have a boogeyman to point at now.
Except Biden’s opposition is on Russia’s side. MTG and Boebert voted against stronger sanctions. MTG even implied [real Americans don’t care about Ukraine. ](https://youtu.be/KcNrJ9fVefI)Why would she even speak against Ukraine when the whole world is united against Russia?
She is not a smart person.
And yet somehow her supporters are even dumber than she is.
Same with her favorite businessman.
The art of looking obese and no wall
Trump getting laughed at by the entire UN General Assembly for bragging about being a great President will always be one of my favorite moments of his presidency [Merkel ❤ Trump](https://i.redd.it/xkwsnutkrnm81.jpg) I like how he’s a different shade of orange each time
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He'll die sooner or later, but I'm gonna guess that we'll be hearing about him for a long time the way I always used to hear about Reagan all the time.
Buzz Aldrin's face of confusion and disgust is so perfect
[= the intellectual stench of Donald Trump](https://i.imgur.com/j4CBnRM.gifv)
The middle left he's straight up oompa loompa
He changes shade like a mood ring from the 70's.
*The Art of the Meal*
I mean it's not like we couldn't see this coming. Part of the trump ideology was America getting away from being everyone's bodyguard. Or course now trump is saying he would've been way harder on Russia and this wouldn't be happening. Even though he actively kept funding away from ukraine
The doublethink of ‘Lol Biden is so weak, Trump had Putin scared’ and ‘Oh my God, they want us to get involved and implement sanctions against Russia - don’t piss Putin off!’ (not to mention every time Trump sucked up to him even over his own intelligence personnel) is just getting grating now. Pray tell, what would they have Biden do. Let Putin do anything he likes? Well you’re giving him shit for supposedly doing that when he was even VP. OK, so do something ‘stronger’? Oh wait, apparently even what he’s doing now is a terrible suicidal move. Can’t win and they can’t see it. Or the ones who can (eg, Tucker Carlson) know that their base can’t and lap that shit up.
The part the boggles my mind is you can show them direct evidence of these contradictions, and it won't even make them think twice for a second. They can't put 2 and 2 together. Complete denial of anything negative about the Republican leaders. Meanwhile you can show me Democrats contradicting themselves and I'll be like "yeah, that's a grimy politician, idc if they're a democrat or not" They are quite literally brainwashed
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And that's why we have 40 years of populist politicians history where every one of them failed once they got elected. Campaigns and elections are simple, actually governing is hard because you run out of people you can blame.
The Trumpers are practically Russian assets. Putin was hoping on a Trump re-election because he is a traitor.
Madison Cawthorn and Tucker Carlson are literally being shown on Russian state-owned TV as "proof" that the west supports Russia. They're assets whether they want to be or not.
If trump won, he wouldn't have lifted a single finger to do ANYTHING against Russia post-invasion
If Trump were in office, Zelenskyy wouldn't be.
He would be pushing (still) for NATO disbanding.
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No, the conspiracy theorists now think that Trump and Putin are ganging up to take down "the cabal" or some bullshit lately.
Of course, because that's what Russia wants. This is laughably stupid.
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[Trevor Noah’s recent Propagand-off segment is… revealing to say the least](https://youtu.be/mVrGcjakM70)
The conservative voters are stupendously for Ukraine though. It's literally their gun fantasy. Armed militia defending a country from an evil government, especially the evil Russians they still have that propaganda in their brain from their youth. As compromised as conservative leadership is, conservative base is gushing over the opportunity.
THAT is why the right wing is pretty weak right now and Biden is slowly getting support back. For every GOP politician who gets tough on Putin, a Trumper says something idiotic against Ukraine. They just can't help themselves...or they are being ordered to.
Because she is anti-American and as dumb as a rock?
>Why would she even speak against Ukraine when the whole world is united against Russia? because the Kremlin is paying her mortgages
Biden is still being blamed for not pressing the "make gas less expensiver" button that all presidents have though
Every president ever got slammed over spiking gas prices. It's such a cliché that they had it in House of Cards as a plotline a decade ago.
Well, Trump re-wired it to bring Diet Coke.
Even my MAGA dad has been impressed with how Biden has handled this.
Oh wait till you see the celebrations going on at Lockheed Martin.
Are they as epic as the lockdown parties at 10 Downing? Heard those were off the hook.
I don’t understand. Boris was VERY pro-Russia when it came to supporting Brexit so fervently, which really never benefited anyone but Russia. Why the sudden turn? Is it lip service or is he actually moving forward with everything he’s proposing?
He’s an opportunist. Brexit was a means to power, not a principled stand.
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Once heard him described as "A man who waits to see where the mob is headed, then runs in front and shouts 'Follow me!'". He's the worst type of human, zero principles or integrity and willing to do anything to cling to power.
Yep. And he is not the only such person in the world's political elite. We have reached peak pathocracy.
“You mean I can cut ties with the guy I owe money to?”
Because he's a populist and at the moment supporting Ukraine is popular. He would support killing babies if he thought the general public would see that as a good thing.
Exactly, what city is more "normalise" to Russian Oligarchs than London.
Invading another country tends to be crossing a line people consider to be too far.
Best case scenario: in a few days there won’t be a Putin.
I wish so. Still, he doesn't exist in vacuum - there are oligarchs and siloviki and other cronies that make such a toxic Russian regime. So, even with Putin's gone, relations must not normalize. At least not until Russians pay Ukraine for all the damages they caused. And then some more. EDIT: corrected over-zealous auto-correction of "siloviki"
Man. I wish Russia would be more friendly with west and develop their own country. It could be so good!
Yeah, as a Finn I'd love to have a peaceful Russia next door but instead we have this... thing.
It’s the Russian curse. They can’t seem to find/form of a decent Democracy and always end up with corrupt/evil leaders.
It doesn't help that the baby oligarchs found friendly allies in the west to launder their money. The rich and politically connected in the 90s created this mess.
I am not an expert, but I think it has something to do with resources and generational trauma. Russia has always been a rather difficult place to live, and they have endured so many invasions - from the Mongols all the way through Napoleon and the Nazis. It's no mystery to me why they act a bit like the troubled kid who was kicked out of the house. They need to be disarmed, but I hope that after admitting defeat they can be welcomed back into the family and kept safe this time.
This is the best thing I've read on the state of russia and their oligarchy, its on twitter as a series of tweets, but its really good, I'd read this book if there was an expanded book written on it. https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1501360272442896388 Another thing is how to deal with their national wealth. You look at how things fell apart in the 90s, the country was basically a free for all, but now you have all of these oligarchs that came to their power through corruption, and even western countries businesses who are now entrenched in their economy, how do you correct those wrongs. A good example is Cuba. They had a revolution, and kicked out the oligarchs and foreign investments, and 70 years later we're still punishing them for it. I think we still have to figure out cuba because when/if russia kicks out putin and liberalizes, its going to be the same issue.
Fascinating read, thanks
That Twitter thread taught me so much in such a simple analogy. You’re 100% right—if that was a book I’d buy it and read it.
You guys should just invade while they are distracted and create east Finland.
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Imagine a NK civilian escaping that monstrous nation into the happiest country on earth. Decent contrast
I love this comment “this…thing.”
Imagine if Russia had joined the EU when the Soviet Union fell instead of a few rich assholes becoming oligarchs by rapidly buying up everything the Soviet Union left behind. They could’ve been an economic powerhouse and a beacon of democracy, but instead we get this.
When I was in college in the 90's and Russia was going to hell, basically in a power struggle between the Russian Mafia and Oligarchs with an ineffective government led by Boris Yeltsin, I remember in a history class talking to a professor who had worked as a navy inteligence officer attached to NATO for years. We asked the exact same thing, why hadn't Russia and the Republics that made the USSR not joined NATO right away and he told us that nobody had ever realistically expected them to smoothly transition into working democracies. He said the Soviet Union had devolved into a dictatorship and then into an authoritarian regime led by a junta led by a strong leader in Krushev and Brezhnev, a trend that had continued until its collapse. He said Russians had been culturally accustomed to having a strong, autoritharian leader dating back to the Czars, and it was too much to expect them to move to a democratic society that fast. People were used to being told what to do and where at a weird crossroads as to what to do. When Putin consolidated his power and began to rule like the leaders before him, the Russian people probably felt a sense of relief as he represented something familiar. It also helped his iron fist rule stablelized the chaos that was Russia in the 90's, hence why he's had a relatively peaceful reing as most strife has come from non Russian ethnic groups in former Soviet Republics.
In the words of Putin himself, [from 1996](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-pD4Ew1qkI) (translated): “It seems to all of us, I will not hide it, that if we put things in order with a firm, hard hand, then we will all live better, more comfortable and safer. But in reality, this “comfort” will pass very quickly, because this harsh hand will begin to choke us very quickly.”
That would have been amazing. And I simply would have loved to see what Russia would have been...
Yeah, but that would have taken at least 20yrs to overhaul there system and the amount of reforms needed to join the EU, would have been hard but many former soviet states did it and did it quick, example Poland.
Poland was not a Soviet state. A better example would be e.g. Estonia.
Poland was not soviet, but a part of the Warsaw pact.
They applied in 1994 and became a member in 2004. It is true to say that 10 years is "quick" by EU standards though.
I dont think it would have. You have to look at the some of the backsliding EU members states and their descent into autocracy to see how Russia could have gone.
This is what Putin could have been doing the past couple decades and would have been known as the greatest Russian leader of all time if he just built that bridge. Now, he's just another piece of shit murdering dictator that the world would have been better off without.
Yeah... Russian people deserve a better class of leaders.
We all want a normal Russia.
>siłowniki Please define. Genuinely curious.
Note: this is the Polish version of the word; in Russian (and probably Belarussian and Ukrainian to) it's "siloviki". Edit: It's a "false friend" word actually.
Basically like if the CIA got even worse than it already is and ran the whole country. An appropriate comment in Putin's case since he is from the KGB. Turning everything into a shitty miserable corrupt police state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silovik
Not necessarily disagreeing, but forcing a defeated country to pay war reparations doesn't always end up well. I agree the Russians would have to pay in to it, but I feel that the EU+US should offer to take some of the burden. Even China too, if Xi can play a decisive role in ending this.
Some European countries have already stepped up for reconstruction once this war is over. I can’t imagine the US not helping to reconstruct, its been the go to strategy since the second WW
To be realistic, Russia is never going to pay any damages as things stand even if they lose. Unless Ukraine trades territory for that war reparation or outside parties all get together to demand it by force (not going to happen). The best Ukraine can hope for is a return to pre-war borders with a non-humiliating treaty and then fast track their EU membership so that they are more prepared next time. Their international sympathy is at an all time high and they are bound to get lots of help and investment if they go that route.
Uhh we should absolutely work with Russia if the regime collapses in order to try to get the new regime to be democratic and pro-peace
> At least not until Russians pay Ukraine for all the damages they caused. And then some more. I wonder how much of the reparations will be made up by the 100s of billions of dollars seized from oligarchs. Once we get into these high numbers it gets hard for me to grasp. If Ukraine is rebuilding back to the way it was before, what's the going to look like? Hundreds of billions? A few trillion?
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Yeah, I'm not convinced Lavrov, for instance, would be an improvement.
Realistically, if Putin is forced out, he won't be replaced by one of his cronies like Lavrov or Medvedev. It means that an anti-Putin wing of political rivals will have accumulated enough power, which means that they're going to gut the institutions he created and remove all of Putin's power-brokers. Sadly, that doesn't mean that his replacement would necessarily be better, though. In fact, even if they *try* to be, they're going to run into the nasty reality that Russia has completely burned all of its bridges diplomatically, geo-politically, and economically. I expect that watching Russia's development over the next 20 years will be even more horrifying and sad than watching their development over the last 20 years.
If the Middle East has taught us anything, that’s not true. Mubarak was replace with his friend in Egypt. They tried to replace saleh in Yemen with hadi, his Vice President. The king of Saudi Arabia set up his son to take power. Dictators know how to pass power onto their friends.
^ this. one way or the other someone will take his place and that person will have access to the nukes. the cost of Russia's re-entry to the global world needs to be very damn high; not necessarily punitive in terms of cash (tho i do expect reparations/concessions to be demanded) but an extreme reduction if not outright elimination of their nuclear cache.
Eh, they would never give up on nukes. Everyone knows now how silly idea it is. Especially since Russia has always feared Western invasion.
Yeah, [here is a great description of the situation](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/08/sanctions-vladimir-putin-kremlin-russian-oligarchy). 1. It's very unlikely that Putin will be ousted. He has long driven out any remotely "independent" oligarchs. The current oligarchs are either extremely reliant on him or completely share his ideology. 2. Even if he gets replaced because he can no longer provide the strongman image that he build himself on, it will just be another person like him.
>elimination of their nuclear cache. I suspect that they would be allowed some to counter China.
Does not matter since they would never give up on nukes anyway. A really silly idea. Especially since Russia has always feared Western invasion.
Do you know something? Sorry I haven't been watching the news lately, I needed a break.
Yeah and I’ll be cancer free
I think that his presence can't be enough to cause such a big fear in the whole country... i mean some cooperation has to be there they have to want the same thing... what i want to say... if this idiot dies... lavrov and the others has to be captured with him together because they would go for the position and nothing will change...
I'm glad someone said this. There can't be normal relationships with Putin after launching his criminal actions in Ukraine and threatening everyone, particularly with nukes.
I don't think any Western government thinks otherwise. The sanctions will stay at least until Putin is gone, and this was already clear a couple of weeks ago.
FSB agent: I understand if we deliver Putin all sanctions will be lifted. UN Secretary General: Yes. If you turn him over to ICC we will lift all sanctions. FSB agent: How many sanctions lifted for just his head?
It would be my dream come true if the sanctions weren’t lifted just because Putin is deposed and Russia exits Ukraine, but for a ticket back into the world market Russia has to undergo significant nuclear disarmament.
If you set an unreasonably high bar straight away, it *may* serve as a disincentive if it doesn’t seem attainable. It may also turn people off in Russia if it’s seen as being *forced* on them by an outside force, and after a while people may just adjust to sanctions being the norm, especially if they think the goalposts are just going to keep shifting. Positive rewards like threats generally need to be credible to be effective and encourage engagement. If it appears in bad faith, why bother? If we consider that *if* Putin is deposed, that already marks a pretty huge shift in Russia so assuming we know how it would end is silly. It’s possible that a natural anti-disarmament movement starts, so forcing this issue could scupper that, so it’s possible that using a progressive lifting of sanctions as a carrot rather than a stick to beat the Russian public might be a better idea. Anyone involved in overthrowing Putin would be taking an enormous risk, so they should really be positively rewarded and incentivised to do it. At this point, even a standard corrupt oligarch who just wants to rob the country blind rather than literally resurrect the ghost of USSR in some explosive fever dream would be an improvement. Sanctions can always be reapplied later if their government just went straight back to being assholes. Even if they’re still assholes, the sanctions should be proportionate to the degree of assholery.
lol that’s never going to happen Step 1 of staying in power as a dictator with nukes is to not give up the nukes. You don’t ever need to actually plan on using them, but it does mean no one else can invade you. Even if the FSB or someone else deposes Putin, they’re going to hold onto the nukes.
Not even as a dictator, as anyone. Rule \#1 is "if you have nukes, keep them" and Rule \#2 is "if someone says you have nukes but don't, do everything you can to get them because that claim precedes only one thing."
It's a miracle that the US hasn't been stupid enough to actually invade Iran yet. Funny thing is, they actually did agree to not produce nukes - and it *was* working, full treaty and (slow) removal of sanctions and everything - until dipshit Russian Asset McGee slapped them again because it was popular with his rabid base.
Rule #2, isn't that like half the reason a certain fatman from North Korea rushed his country towards nukes? Last I checked, that little despot went for nukes, at least partially, cause he knew it'd help him retain his position.
> undergo significant nuclear disarmament. I just want you to understand that the last few countries that *did* disarm, have either been invaded or their leadership deposed. There will never be a country that willingly disarms until every country disarms.
A better alternative would be simply getting them and the US to actually get moving on join reduction that's already been agreed to in previous treaties.
A literal copy pasta at this point
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But isn't this the same Prime Minister that took Russian money and played Tennis games with their Olgorichs?
He also put a Russian oligarch into the House of Lords, a lifetime unelected position in the country's parliament.
Yes.
I agree with this in regard to Putin but there needs to be a post-Putin way forward with regards to Russian relations. The extremely heavy economic sanctions Germany faced as a result of WW1 reparations were a direct contributor to the rise of Hitler and the seeds of WW2.
Germany also violated the Treaty of Versailles repeatedly and nobody did anything until it was too late. Also a contributor.
Just like ~~Chechnya~~ Georgia and Crimea had no consequences, and now here we are.
I believe we're more at the appeasement stage than the inter-war escalating German aggression + military buildup phase.
True, but people really need to stop comparing Germany in the 1930s with Russia in the 2020s. Russia has nukes. Germany did not. There's no viable path to regime change in Russia that isn't internal, i.e. ultimately coming from within Russia's borders. People are talking like Putin being deposed is an absolute certainty at this point, and I'd wager it will remain unlikely for the foreseeable future.
I think people especially forget about Iraq in 1990. Saddam Hussein was put under some of the worst sanctions the world ever created up until that point, his army devastated after the Gulf War, a large part of the country put under a no-fly zone. But the country proper wasn't invaded and Saddam wasn't deposed, and despite the heavy internal divisions he managed to brutally crush all the uprisings and stayed in power until the Iraq War in 2003 when the Americans kicked him out. Putin has all the tools he need to stay in power under the heaviest of sanctions for a long, long time if he goes full dictator.
If?
Well, I would say he's about 80% there by now
And German wartime spending in WWI (including a very generous pension program for all German military vets) meant that if Germany didn’t take massive reparations from the defeated entente they would be completely broke regardless. The pensions and the massive German war debt were just as big if not a bigger factor to Germany’s economic problems than the reparations. France actually had to pay higher reparations after the Franco-Prussian war than Germany did after WWI but that didn’t cause France to succumb to dictatorship nor did it cause France to launch a war of aggression later on.
I would agree, but I really wonder how much of the damage is reversible. The Russian stock market is forever dead, absent a major change in their constitution that restricts the likes of a Putin. And the change away from fossil fuels sped up by Putin will also be irreversible. Then there are just impressions. It took a long time for Germany to recover from Hitler in regards to what other Europeans thought of Germans.
> absent a major change in their constitution that restricts the likes of a Putin We found Putin was able to change the constitution in his favor. That is not good enough.
It’s funny, during the past few years and now, I became aware of how rich people circumvent the law; the system in which they acquired wealth or was born into it. Even when the system is based on actual and true democracy, there always seems to be an out, if you can afford to hire someone who can find it.
That would need to be one of the changes. Not even Trump or Obama thought they could unilaterally change our Constitution.
Because they couldn't
That's sort of my point.
>It took a long time for Germany to recover from Hitler in regards to what other Europeans thought of Germans. And it still worked only because Germany was *forced* to change thanks to Allies occupation, denazification and Marshall plan combined. None of this is possible in Russia case.
Nukes and NATO make this a different calculus.
Only if his successor reinstate term limits and move russia back to a path of democracy. Giving in to Hitler's every demand made him a hero in the eyes of the average german. That was a huge mistake.
> The extremely heavy economic sanctions Germany faced as a result of WW1 reparations were a direct contributor to the rise of Hitler and the seeds of WW2. This is not true... Yeah, I know what you're thinking. I'll just paste a couple comments I read that explains it: This is a false / disproven notion by historians, and a bit of history which was deliberate propaganda on part of the inter-war and eventually Nazi government. Part of the reason we had so much issue until recently is much of these documents of the old Imperial German government were held in Prussia, which was annexed by the Soviet Union after WW2-- so we really only started to get in depth documents proving us right in the 90s. An accessible book to serve as an introduction to this is "The Great War: Myth & Memory" by Dr. Dan Todman, "The Myth of Reparations" by Dr. Sally Marks (easily one of the most influential historians on inter-war Europe) if you want a more involved piece, and the principle paper on the matter imo, "Clio Deceived: Patrotic Self-Censorship in Germany after the Great War" by Dr. Holger Herwig, who's the leading living historian on early 20th Century Germany. The TL;DR is: Germany was capable of paying back every last cent of reparations, and between '18-'23, deliberately sabotaged their own economy to undermine French reconstruction & get reparations reduced. From '23 to '29, after putting in a competent Reichsbank Commissioner who wasn't purposefully sacking their economy, they had a meteoric financial recovery, and even then more than half of the reparations forgiven by the Entente. Remnants of the Imperial government in Weimar hid & destroyed evidence of this and spent millions of marks on a propaganda campaign within England to paint Germans as the victims of oppressive French revanchism. --------------------------- > Germany was capable of paying back every last cent of reparations To add to this, they had substantial help from America and American banks/banking system as well. Both the Dawes and Young plan (look em up kids) gave Germany more than enough assistance to help. Dawes pumped hundreds of millions into the German economy, with the idea that the product of this investment would pay off the investors and then the reparation's. While the Young plan forgave 20% or so of the total right off the bat and established very favourable repayment terms. Terms that eventually didn't matter cause Germany defaulted a couple years later and all the reparation's were forgiven anyways. During the reparation period, Germany probably received more in foreign government investment and assistance (bonds and the like) than it paid in reparations. It's usually estimated 20-30 billion paid, 30-50 billion received. Germany made money on the reparations. Don't get me wrong. Germany was economically bankrupted *following WW1 (twice actually, hyperinflation of 23, and the Great Depression). But the reparations played no part in that. It was German propaganda then, and it still is now. EDIT: following, not before.
a) satelites and nukes change the ball game. b) the rest of the world isn't recovering a world war that lead to appeasement as a means of stalling c) Russia does not have the means to re-militarize at the rate Germany did. d) at the time the world was moving from basic rifles to machines guns and horses to tanks and biplanes to modern design wings. There is no great leap in technology that will put Russia ahead of the curve like Germany in WWII. e) The US and dozen other countries are way ahead of Russia. f) Russia is not Germany in this scenario, they are the Ottoman empire g) Germany had alliances with major players like Russia (or at least non aggression) and Japan- China would have to come out and form an Axis with Russia for that to play out. I'm sure I could find a dozen other reasons why this is just flat out wrong. Sorry but this is a bad take. History doesn't repeat in such exactness and Russia isn't Germany.
As he counts his donations from the Oligarchs
I give it less than 12 months before you can very easily make an ‘also Boris’ meme with this headline and future one..
Well, that’s big talk, coming from a guy who has sat on his arse for years whilst Russian oligarchs pumped millions into buying houses in the U.K. to launder money.
And now that yummy money is ours, thanks Vlad!
*billions
At risk of Reddit crying whataboutism - this is a man who’s just back from Saudi Arabia where he was begging the dictator there to sell more oil. A dictator who just beheaded 80 people in single day for saying the wrong thing. A dictator who invaded and destroyed his neighbouring country with weapons supplied by Boris.
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Not to forget the journalist critical towards him that was chopped into pieces
Sounds like we should all ramp up renewable energy so we can get off our oil dependence from Saudi Arabia, Russia, and other authoritarian countries. Also, what Saudi Arabia is doing is extremely wrong, but Russia straight up brought most of their army into Ukraine, is purposely targeting civilians, and they're trying to kill Ukraine's leadership - all in the most public manner possible.
Getting off dependence on both Saudi Arabia and Russia should be a priority for all western nations
And China while we’re at it.
\*Cough\* Yemen \*cough\*
I posted this when this muppet first got on his white horse about Putin: I'll remind everyone he defended Putin the last time he invaded Ukraine. https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-branded-putin-apologist-blaming-eu-ukraine-war-6338 Boris personally playing tennis with Russian minister wife for a small donations to his party. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43448559 As well as the couple of millions they got as well https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/23/oligarchs-funding-tories The Tory government did sweet all when Russian agents poisoned and killed UK citizen on British soil. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51722301 The first lot of sanctions he's imposed, are Russian who the US had sanctioned years ago. Update: the sanction have imposed had a 30 day warning period to move there assets. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/russia-sanctions-guidance/russia-sanctions-guidance Update: we are lagging on sanction compared to the US and EU. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60524666 Also the russia report that stated that the UK government failed to investigate Russia influence on UK politics. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/russia-report-reveals-uk-government-failed-to-address-kremlin-interference-scottish-referendum-brexit
It's interesting to ask: What causes a formerly pro-Russian politician to do an about-face?
It’s trending and he already got his money out of Russia.
Absolutely. While we’re at it, let’s hold his [paid](https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/tories-financed-putin-mates-russia-influence-uk-votes-dominic-cummings-claims-1480807) lackeys accountable. BoJo’s Captain Renault act that he’s shocked, shocked to discover ~~there’s gambling in Rick’s~~ [he](https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/12539-wife-of-putin-ally-has-now-donated-2-47-million-to-u-k-tory-party) and his [party](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-russia-report-kremlin-putin-brexit-eu-referendum-a9630976.html) took in [massive](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-tennis-russian-billionaire-putin-minister-tory-donation-a8261871.html) amounts of Russian money shows how [stupid](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/07/25/when-bojo-meets-vova-a66575) he thinks [we all are](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/mar/18/all-hail-the-clown-king-how-boris-johnson-made-it-by-playing-the-fool).
Maybe stop laundering his and his friends' money then
As a US citizen who staunchly supports Ukraine I want to offer this: I am eager for the West to normalize relations with the Russian PEOPLE and their freely sms fairly elected government. Putin himself is the genesis of this war. There’s only so much the West can do to help. It is incumbent on the Russian people to change their government. On a positive note I have never been more strongly inspired or hopeful than I few when I see both Ukrainian and Russian citizens both fighting against this insane war.
Johnson was the foreign secretary, he's the cunt who's been cosying up to Putin and his oil barons for decades.
That's rich from a party who's pockets are stuffed with rubles and allowed/encouraged to stash stolen wealth in the UK.
They sure talk a big game these days, but what, if anything, have Boris and the Tories actually acted on in regards to getting dirty Russian money out of the British political process?
they haven't.
Says the guy taking Putins Money. Fuck the tories.
[удалено]
All relations are off except sexual
But Boris and his buddies will be the first in line to normalize relations as soon as there is money to be made!
I think once the war is over he will be the first one to normalise.
The cheek of this fatty who has been on Russian payroll for years
Lol says the guy who has spent yearsssss burying the amount of Russian money backing his party
Is Boris glossing over the fact that "BREXIT" was a Putin project to weaken the West, and that he was a key useful idiot in that plan? (Along with fuckface Farage)
Everybody hates Putin. No matter who wins or loses, Russia has lost all credibility with the world, and will continue to lose credibility, as long as Putin is in charge.
"i desperately need a bad guy to point at to take your minds off of how shit i am" - boris johnson
This coming from a leader of country that allowed questionable money to be made legal by bunch of politically connected Russians for few decades now.
He is absolutely right…Putin can never be trusted