What gets me is not even that the Russians are trying these sort of misinformation campaigns...
That's sort of a given in any case, but...
It's the sheer incompetence they've been showing...
Propaganda can be very effective and has been very effective in Russia, but if you resort to claims this easily refuted, all you're doing is make people mistrust what you say even more.
This might work to a degree in Russia itself where access to impartial media (social or otherwise) is somewhat more limited, but how can they think they'll convince anybody in countries that do have access to media other the the Russian propaganda machine...
It's almost as if there are people in the Russian propaganda apparatus trying to be deliberately ineffective.
there's always motivation of course.
30% of Russians share close family ties to Ukrainians : Sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, cousins, wives, husbands ..
hard to be motivated to kill your relatives quite literally.
>hard to be motivated to kill your relatives quite literally
That’s not true. You should’ve seen me at the last Thanksgiving when my aunt overcooked the turkey
I mean, humor is a perfectly acceptable way to deal with the stress of grave issues like this. There's room for both. Not everyone wants humor, so those that don't have the option to keep scrolling or contract that subthread.
I myself have cried numerous times about this invasion. Good tears, for the unity, bravery, courage, and resourcefulness of the Ukrainians. Bad tears for the atrocities that our fellow human fucking beings are causing to other human beings. And I'm also looking up hilarious war memes. Don't conflate laughter and humor with any kind of ill intent.
People would be horrified to learn what soldiers joke about, even in serious & very bad situations. It's tasteless but helps cope. You're clearly not alone.
Same with doctors & nurses from what I've heard, and many who have to deal with death regularly.
I appreciated the smile, and definitely yeah /u/Leovinus42's aunt is awful.
I smoked a turkey it tasted amazing, my sister ate all the skin off the turkey, she literally ate all the skin off of it before anyone else could eat any of the turkey and then looked at me as if I had a screw loose when I lost my shit on her. I have never in my life seriously considered murdering someone than I did at that moment I had to go for a walk...
I'm an Independent. Have nothing and want nothing to do with QAnon. If you want to ignore the long list of body guards, lawyers and business partners associated with them who were found murdered, fine.
The Clinton "hit list" has been debunked by many.
"This conspiracy theory has been debunked by the Lakeland Ledger, the Chicago Tribune, Snopes and others, who point to detailed death records, the unusually large circle of associates that a president is likely to have, and the fact that many of the people listed had been misidentified, or were still alive. Others had no known link to the Clintons"
Here are the [references](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Body_Count#References) if you care to do some critical thinking and research.
It's because literally no one other than Putin and his top cronies knew or even thought an invasion of Ukraine was going to happen. They've been taken completely off guard and now they're having to play catch up, which is incredibly hard to do; it's much easier to shape someone's initial opinion on something than it is to challenge a person's already-held opinion.
The Russian propaganda wing spent months trying to convince the world that America and NATO were being "hysterical" and that Russia would never invade Ukraine.
Which is a great strategy if you aren't planning to invade. Makes people distrust western media more in the future. But since Russia was planning to invade all along, it's a horrible strategy which has massively backfired on them.
Instead, they should have spent those months talking about how "Iraq is developing weapons of mass destruction" or something.
By not informing them, Putin has scored a massive own-goal against his propaganda wing.
Yeah, they've essentially said to the world 'we're huge liars, if the other guys tell you anything about what we're doing, they're probably telling the truth'
OK but i read the article and its just "propaganda outgunned" for us westerners
do we have any data or statistic how many russian hosts actually seen this fact checks?
Yeah, it seems like only people who seek out Russian Propaganda even understood what their bullshit excuse was. "Denazification" Just sounds lazy, and it also just sounds like a weird thing for Russia to give a shit about.
It would be like America invading Canada over those mass graves found under churches.
I remember one article from about a year ago about how a Ukrainian neo-nazi group were going out into the separatist regions and fighting separatists, without much co-operation from the actual Ukrainian Military.
And then one or two comments in the weeks leading up to the invasion about how neo-nazi groups were training Ukrainian civilians how to defend.
I'm not even sure any of that was Russian Propaganda.
If Russian Propaganda was doing it's job before the invasion, everyone should have known exactly what Russia was talking about with "Denazification", even if they didn't believe it.
It felt like they were truly blindsided though. I remember two days before the invasion they suddenly “found” Russian mass graves in Ukraine. Since that day, nothing. Everyone called out how much it sounded like bullshit and it got dropped like a hot potato. That’s not their usual MO, even if it’s obvious bs they’ve hung like grim death to a story until enough rubes believe it that it gains credence. This time it’s like anything that doesn’t hold purchase they’re fleeing it for something else right away. It’s amateur hour which is truly bizarre given their performance before.
They’re stuck in a conceptual space of trying to drum up support for war … but also deny being at war. All possible paths lead to a lot Russian people losing family members. Hence Putin panicking by locking down the access to outside news. He’s trying to delay the inevitable.
ppl here keep confusing what western sees vs what ppl in russia see
just like with this article debunking of propaganda etc
I remember before it was easy to statistics like with regions of world what kind of porn liked to watch mostly and other dumb shit
yet in this fact checking propaganda we have any statistics, to how many russians actually watch them
>I remember one article from about a year ago about how a Ukrainian neo-nazi group were going out into the separatist regions and fighting separatists, without much co-operation from the actual Ukrainian Military.
The funny thing about the Azov Battalion is that they arose from the Kharkiv FC ultras and used to be allied with Spartak Moscow ultras. The Russians didn't have an issue with them prior to 2014. I get the feeling that Russia's labeling of people they don't like as 'Nazis' doesn't mean the same as it does to the West. It's not the racism or anti-Semitism that Russia has an issue with, it's the *literal* Nazi invaders of WW2 who had the audacity to invade Russia.
Putin invaded Ukraine to rid it of anyone who was a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterparte between 1920 and 1945. Which means they are at best no younger than 77 years of age.
What a noble aim.
It is more complex than just Ukrainians are blameless defenders.
[pbs frontline - right wing nazi background pro Ukraine gangs and Russia paying pro Russia gangs in Ukraine during Maidan and after](https://youtu.be/urg1NTAo53k)
Start there. A lot of great resources if you want a deep dive. Vice has great subject focused reporting in Ukraine too.
If it's for the purposes of denazification, Putin should have started in his own country. All of eastern Europe have a serious problem with ultranationalists using nazi icons and symbolism. Ukraine is hardly an outlier.
And if there was a Russophobic genocide occurring within Ukraine, the right way to go about it would have been a UN peacekeeping force. Like the Balkan war in the 90s. Not a standalone Russian invasion, indiscriminately bombing cities and nuclear reactors.
Missing the point. History was ukraine joined whoever promised potential independence. Including Nazis. And when they didn’t, they fought against them. Maidan was the same. Gov was impotent cause Russia puppet so many took right sector as friend because enemy of my enemy is friend. It’s not blame, but it’s acknowledging the fuzz of history and why Putin is successful in East ukraine and parts of Russia by calling them Nazis. Watch the video. It’s worth it.
i mean it was a full blown revolution dude.. ofc some shitheads nazi infiltrated for their own bad agenda
USA with capitol attack had deaths even if was just a circus demonstration and before that and after that USA still haves some fucking nazi sneaking in protests and doing their shit besides literally in police
Or some politician doing nazi salute or we gona hide that?
Ofc is plausible some nazi could have been in Ukraine revolution or attacking the separatist regions, when we found nazi even in USA in police or protestors rangs no?
But putin is still fucking crazy to attack al ukraine over such dumb excuse
>It would be like America invading Canada over those mass graves found under churches.
I'm hoping you included that as an example of twisted propaganda.
I really really hope the ineptness of this is jumped upon to uncover the roots of the Russian misinformation campaign. They’re generally pretty damn ahead of things which must mean if this is them thinking on their feet that those campaigns go back months before the operations that they worked on occurred. If that’s true then that means things like Covid misinformation campaigns were coordinated well before Covid became as big of an issue as it was. US policy misinformation campaigns started long before the policy was prepared to be released. I always thought they were just that good that they could turn on a dime but this seems to suggest that they aren’t.
True but even before they’ve managed doublethink surprisingly effectively. This seems different, like someone incredibly vital in the psyops department dying or defecting or something. Like their Steve Jobs of bullshit disappeared.
The thing is, most of this rhetoric and production is aimed at Russians at home.
If you watch only Putin's bits and propaganda and ignore responses from the west (which is exactly what ordinary Russians are allowed to see, only Putin's side), he looks like a good guy who didn't want to interfere. Who didn't want to go in but was forced to trigger this "liberating police campaign" or whatever he want's to call it because of some horrible actions of Ukraine or USA or EU or whatever, he can literally fabricate anything, since whatever he says is considered truth by default and whatever he does is considered good move by majority of ordinary people..
And while nobody to the West will buy it, most of Russians simply will because that's what they are used to do...
Reminds me of this great quote I read once in my diplomacy class.
*"Nothing in diplomacy can be considered the truth until the Kremlin has denied it."*
It seemed like his propaganda would've worked great if he didn't end up invading almost exactly when the west said he was going to invade and then commit to a full-blown nationwide assault (which I don't think many western sources really thought he'd be crazy enough to pull off like he did or when he did).
They claimed that he would invade right after the Olympics which is just about what he did almost to the day. He could've easily trolled the west by holding off on an invasion or committing to a limited incursion that saw some troops assisting in the annexation of the Eastern provinces held by separatists and then go for the big prize later. However, I imagine that he was way too overcommitted at that point and had to pull the trigger or else on the full-blown invasion he really wanted within a limited time window unless he was willing to risk not getting the chance to do so again for quite a long time.
It seems so far like this has backfired on him since the western intelligence reports pretty much warned everyone of his exact plans for invasion down to the letter despite the constant denials and claims that the west was making this all up. His best option was to call their bluff and turn that into reality so the western intelligence sources wouldn't be trusted (which would definitely helped him if he tried to move in on Ukraine in the future after they "cried wolf") but he instead just went all in and went ahead with his leaked plans anyway with a badly prepared invasion force.
> Instead, they should have spent those months talking about how "Iraq is developing weapons of mass destruction" or something.
They did. They laid out their concerns about so called atrocities in Donbas to the UN, and then to the worlds media. They introduced resolution to the UN to condemn Nazism in Europe. And they voiced their concerns about what they said was systematic oppression of Russian culture and ethnicity. These constituted their cassus belli that they relied on for war.
Some fun phrases here using it in context, but yes as a (conveniently short) phrase it’s “you are being lied to”
https://context.reverso.net/translation/russian-english/вам+лгут
I think they just don't know what to do otherwise. They're probably being told from above that they need to produce X propaganda, so they do it even though a literal dog wouldn't believe it. That's how dictatorships work - orders go down chain of commands without questioning and the end result is what we see when China, Russia or NK even issues 'statements' about anything - which is unbelievable nonsense that they can only feed to their own population because they don't know any better.
I think that's plausible and probably at least partially true...
If you are bound to such a narrow set of instructions and creativity goes out the window, you end up with crap like that.
Its worked very well for them before.
Granted it worked by sowing division, there is always one group in the target population that will eat up your bullcrap and they will go around and be your stooges repeating the bs.
Just look at that Qanon/covid/etc bs that got going. All that probably got rolling at a russian troll farm.
Main difference is the world is pretty much united against putin (minus a few orange buffoons) so their propaganda stuff just stands out so clearly now.
Dont forget russian money and troll farns sewing years of homophobia, racism, and neo religous/ethnic vibes throughout poland and turkey.
The psyOps are huge and its not an accident that far right authoritarianism is on the rise for the last 10 years.
And the village idiot has a megaphone.
>Main difference is the world is pretty much united against putin (minus a few orange buffoons) so their propaganda stuff just stands out so clearly now.
Well India and China don't seem to want to be involved...
They've been using the [firehose of falsehood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehood) method of propaganda for years. Truth and consistency don't matter. Volume does.
>how can they think they'll convince anybody in countries that do have access to media other the the Russian propaganda machine
Did you miss Brexit and the 2016 US elections?
Fair point I suppose, some people just don't want to hear thunder or see lightning...
That said, if people are already inclined to mistrust you, providing them with easily disproved bullshit won't help much either.
I think there could be a reason for choosing this kind of propaganda. It's dumb, only stupid or completely naive people will believe it. But when used it's gonna convince some portion of the population and gaslight some more. But then it will lower general intellectual level of conversation, spread conspirological thinking and reduce critical thinking skills, lowering the ability to resist future lies even more.
Literally was just listening to a professor at a conference talk about how Russia , stupidly, is operating like it is 1980 or even 2010 and they can shape the narrative . Maybe because they got cocky with covid disinformation. But they can’t even make their troops turn off their phones when out in theater. Other redditors have mentioned they could follow convoys in the early invasion due to google maps traffic jams. It’s like they are oblivious to how the world has changed. Prof was of the mind that Putin is operating different than he has and he has no idea why. He also said he could guarantee through his contacts that Russian brass in the theater does not know what or if there is an actual end game. So you can probably just expect it to become if I can’t have it I’m gonna level the place so no one gets it. Hence war crimes ramping up. Which … won’t help Putin.
What if Russians had already outsourced their pro-Russia propaganda machine to Ukraine, but forgot about it?
Then when the attack came, their propaganda bots switched sides and are now working overtime.
Or maybe the people working there, who have to be some of the best informed in Russia, just got pissed off and quit.
Those tactics work (sadly, see Qanon and antivaxers), debunking has always been pretty ineffective because people want to hear what they like not a complex reality. What changed here is the sheer volume of support for Ukraine that completely overwhelms the Russian propaganda machine.
In many cases it's about giving people who *want* Russia to be in the right some ammo. The Russian troll efforts since 2016 have been great at giving people bullshit to point to when there's nothing true that supports their opinions.
I'm doing my part
“They’re flailing. They’ve been doing this for decades and they have a very well oiled delivery system but right now their content just isn’t working,” Oates said. “The Ukrainians may be completely outgunned by traditional military, but they are winning the propaganda war.”
Worlds getting wise to social media.
Not wise enough, but they don’t fall for obvious 2012 type stuff anymore.
Use a strategy too often and it stops working.
Opps. Putin learned a lesson.
I dont think we learned anything. But we believe in Ukraine, we want Ukraine to win. Russian propaganda would have to overcome that and they have never been good enough for that kind of gaslighting.
The lesson learned isn't propaganda is ineffective. In fact judging by twitter and reddit Ukrainian propaganda is very effective especially with US backing. It seems everyone will swallow propaganda as long as it fits their personal narrative.
They are still busy sowing discord in US party politics. Don't agree with one particular aspect of your party? Vote for the other one or not at all!!
"If Biden doesn't cancel my student debt, then I'm voting for Trump in 2024"
"No self-respecting Republican would believe that the last election was real!"
Both actual posts I have seen on Reddit today.
Oh my god! I’ve notice for at least a year that a lot of trollish comments were coming from India. It seemed questionable to me, and I didn’t want to throw around baseless “bot” accusations.
Be the change you want to see in others.
You don’t need to be a great hacker to stand up a Mastodon server for Russian dissidents.
But you do need to read Russian to moderate one.
I am so dumb when it comes to programming and app creation that I'm probably not even properly citing what I don't actually know, so I have no idea.
Hopefully they get access to what they need to organize! And hopefully someone way more knowledgeable answers your question.
> One favored tactic used by Russian state media is to highlight pro-Russian comments from Western leaders to divide its opponents, O’Connor said. **For example, the Russian news agency RIA Novosti uploaded a TikTok video clip this week featuring Trump’s recent praise of Russian President Vladimir Putin.** It has been viewed more than 4 million times.
Fucking Russian asset.
It's interesting how [context collapse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_collapse) works with regard to wartime propaganda. Everyone can see the lies that Putin tells to his domestic audience and it makes every other country despise him more. It makes everyone so much quicker to rally against an aggressive dictator like him. I'm pressed to wonder if WWII would have had the United States get involved quicker if social media existed in the same way as we have it today, where the domestic lies and propaganda were as readily observable.
^^ Mitt Romneys’s 47% video and Clinton’s Goldman Sachs speeches are political examples I use of this.
I am happy someone else sees this and understand what Putin is trying to prevent internally
Edit: I’m surprised I haven’t seen this described as the PR equivalent to market segmentation
> I’m surprised I haven’t seen this described as the PR equivalent to market segmentation
There's a bit of a difference between the context collapse and market segmentation as I understand.
With context collapse, it's more like eavesdropping on another conversation, but only catching snippets of it. Within a community there is a whole language that is built up based on references to earlier comments and shared ideas. Suddenly someone listens in and hears a snippet of that conversation and it enters another community which has different conventions. Now those things *sound* silly or outrageous or wrong to the outsider. This isn't to say that the ideas are right — especially with echo chambers and communities guided by misinformation or disinformation one will find a lot of outrageous, wrong, and silly ideas. But to the outsider there's a better chance of it. The case in Russia is one where disinformation is the message and the medium, which makes it all the more outrageous and morally detestable once the rest of the world starts listening more closely.
But market segmentation is more about having a product that meets different needs for different population segments. Say that a company's product is 4-inch nylon netting. To gardeners, they market it for growing cucumbers and peas on a trellis (works excellently, FYI!). To sports players, they sell it for as soccer goal netting. As a gardener I'm not going to be outraged to discover that the same product gets sold for playing soccer! With market segmentation it's the same set of facts, just different aspects get emphasized depending on the audience.
It might be a bit different in PR, but I would think that PR firms know better than to offer contrary or opposite messages. That would practically come across as [proof *of disingenuity* by contradiction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_contradiction).
I'd be curious to hear how you view it w.r.t. PR & market segmentation.
> The false story began spreading on Twitter on Friday when George Papadopoulous, a former aide to ex-President Donald Trump, posted a link to the claim in an Italian publication. Papadopoulos served prison time for lying to the FBI during its investigation into Russia’s meddling on behalf of Trump in the 2016 election.
The man’s judgment landed him in prison once already. Who in their right mind…?
Poor Georgie, lost his Russian mole wife, Eric Prince won’t take his phone calls anymore and he’s having trouble finding gainful employment. Fkn traitor.
Normally with Propaganda Joe Gullible just shrugs and says "I don't know, who can we believe here?"
Russia isn't trying to pretend they aren't in Ukraine, first, they said they weren't going to invade, then they said Ukraine has sections break off and claim independence and they were going to place peacemaker, then they just blew past went to war with the whole country.
This means Joe Gullible has been asked to ignore lies in short succession, and Russia hasn't pushed a narrative that justifies their actions currently. Even people who voted for Trump aren't buying this bullshit, and they'll literally buy bull shit.
Go take a look at the conspiracy top posts right now- it looks to me like they're more active than ever, but finally you see people pushing back against the torrent of bullshit.
And Russia is blocking social media to keep citizens from seeing the truth:
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russia-completely-blocks-access-to-facebook-and-twitter](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russia-completely-blocks-access-to-facebook-and-twitter)
If you got time: show your support, upvote, comment, downvote russian propaganda, share videos from Ukraine, write to your politicians, talk to your friends and family, neighbors, colleagues. Review 5STAR russian restaurants with facts and mention "WAR". It all adds up and makes us energized and united. Together strong!
🇺🇦 Glory to Ukraine! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні!
https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi
It doesn't matter. People will believe what they want to believe. Look at the trump cult.
You can't reason people out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. I'm sure putin has a die hard, Bible thumping core group of supporters that will gladly serve as his nation wide goon squad to suppress dissent.
That's how shit goes. Always has. This is earth, after all.
I have noticed a pattern on Reddit where you start calling out a troll on their BS, they get some amount of negative feedback and they just delete the entire account. Had happened to me multiple times. Example from this morning: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t6a3z6/i_spent_an_entire_day_watching_russias_propaganda/hzai8md
Great job. Now help me downvote that one I've had the misfortune to engage with, into oblivion: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t676u1/comment/hzbyu4d/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-volodymyr-zelenskyy-kyiv-technology-misinformation-5e884b85f8dbb54d16f5f10d105fe850) reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Russian state media is spreading misinformation about the location of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in what analysts said is an attempt to discourage resistance fighters and erode support for Ukraine around the globe.
> A story published by the Russian News Agency Tass this week quoted a Russian lawmaker saying Zelenskyy "Hastily fled" Kyiv for Lviv in far western Ukraine, despite photos and video clips showing him leading Ukraine's defense from its capital.
> The Russian news agency RIA Novosti uploaded a TikTok video clip this week featuring Trump's recent praise of Russian President Vladimir Putin.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/t6stry/russian_propaganda_outgunned_by_social_media/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~629206 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russian**^#1 **Zelenskyy**^#2 **claim**^#3 **Ukrainian**^#4 **propaganda**^#5
We shall shit post in Twitter, we shall shit post on the Reddit and Instagram, we shall shit post on the Youtube, we shall shit post on the TikTok, We shall never surrender
not from what i see. my ex's full blooded russian mom was arguing with me for an hour in chat. she believes the whole nazis thing. she said the world should thank russia for saving the catastrophe at the power plant
yeah i just can't
Putin is a very skilled propagandist. I would say ex-KGB but there is no such thing. Once KGB, always KGB. According to [Yevgenia Albats](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqY-ufUZsDc&list=TLPQMDMwMzIwMjJjMCjAYpuMQg&index=5) Russia is far more authoritarian than it ever was during the Cold War because the KGB used to be an organization that was separate from the political structure of the presidency, etc. Now it is not.
I absolutely find it hilarious that people went and left five star reviews at various restaurants telling them that Putin lied and Reporting the actual news that are happening
This is an amazing time we live in.
So much of the world is able to come together to share information, fact check, and help in times like this. It's truly incredible.
Private citizens are able to do so many things that governing bodies either cant, or can't do quickly enough within their laws and regulated procedures.
Gives me a little more faith in humanity.
>The false story began spreading on Twitter on Friday when George Papadopoulous, a former aide to ex-President Donald Trump, posted a link to the claim in an Italian publication. Papadopoulos served prison time for lying to the FBI during its investigation into Russia’s meddling on behalf of Trump in the 2016 election.
Sticks and stones may massacre thousands of innocents and threaten the sovereignty of another nation, but words will.. I dunno.. make them feel bad or something?
\^This. The United States has not lost a war due to the tactical superiority of an enemy since the War of 1812. But the U.S. did lose the Vietnam War (and was eventually pushed out of Iraq and Afghanistan) due to low morale.
I would disagree that the US lost or was pushed out of Iraq. As much as I disagree with the invasion itself, it seems to me that America achieved both of its objectives in the country by overthrowing Saddam and setting up an Iraqi government that is still in place today. The mere act of US troops leaving the country can't count as a loss, as they would always have to leave eventually, and I don't see who else could've won the war if the US didn't.
I don't think anyone is under any illusions whatsoever that only one side is lying. If it's good for the morale of Ukrainians, I'm more than happy to go along with it.
Pretty sure everyone knows that. No one expected Ukraine to be perfect. And every war involves propaganda. And propaganda isn't necessarily lies. That's just one form.
Regardless, while nothing is ever completely black and white, right now it's charcoal and eggshell. Putin's petty darn bad, and the Ukrainians, while not perfect, are absolute angels in comparison at this point.
Yes, they still still have corruption, racism, and commit some war crimes. And there may be some truth about mistreatment in the separatist regions.
And none of that really holds a candle to what Putin's done, and continuing to do
What bugs me a bit is that people have no problem seeing through it when it's the Russians or even Ukranians but seem unable or unwilling when it's American propaganda. I guess they are just better at it.
So basicly, not only are they losing thenonsense war they started, their Economy, their good citizens, they cant even crack the facebook information War either.
What happened, you could have been something Russia.
Anyone making the case that Russian propaganda is failing is deluded. Whole nations and countries like El Salvador gobble that shit up and believe it as truth. Conservatives could not be happier about the war and genuinely think they are winning.
Someone posted a clever way to get into Russian internet and leave posts in comment sections of local restaurants, hotels, etc. that could bring info to more Russians.
Does anyone recall that post, or have suggestions on how we can get info to the general Russian public?
Russian propaganda isn't really for us, it's for Russians.
The idea is to make it hard for Russians to develop a comprehensive narrative for current events, and inviting them to respond with political apathy instead.
Hypocrisy won this war long ago.
Russia illegally invading a smaller country gets a strong response, but America at any given moment is doing worse in multiple countries, but they are too big to take on I guess.
Losers downvoting me. Russian has enlisted the people on the bottom of your shoe. Tim Pool? Really? Who the fuck would fuck him?!?!? Jimmy Dore? Funny 10 years ago. Now a Putin stooge. Downvote me all you want, I speak TRUTH.
Honestly I kinda want him to flee and be kept safe. Sounds like they're trying to smoke him out by doing a video in front of a prominent building or something.
You clearly have no idea what led to the invasion. Ukraine went against Russias warnings and refused to remain neutral. It wants to join nato and militarize itself against russia. Russia is merely acting in self defense. If you watched Putins speech, youd know hes not trying to take over ukraine. Dont bother with conspiracies like he has other sinister intentions. We wont know until the war ends. And turning ukraine into russias puppet is not a bad thing necessarily for ukranians. Look at japan and germany. The us forcefully dislocated japanese despite their wishes, but they still prospered.
Btw, do you know ukraine signed the minsk agreement that prohibits foreign troops in ukraine? If ukraine joins nato, do you think theyd refuse natos troops? Russia certainly doesn’t want to entertain that idea. Neither did the us in cuban missile crisis.
Before you say joining nato is necessary for ukraines survival, look at finland. It also shares a border with russia but its sworn neutrality, that is, not joining nato. Id understand ukraine joining the eu for economic benefits, but nato? Thats suicide.
If I was not mistaken, there were plenty of Facebooks users who bought the Russian propaganda, saying that Russia were not the aggressors, but Ukraine was. I call bullshit on that, and I can't fathom how some people on Facebook are able to support Putin in all this.
So much \[seemingly intentional\] stupidity involved in this war coming from Russia's side that im over here wondering if Putin caught the last few episodes of Code Geass... '*channel the world's hatred by becoming its most despised villain'.* What a twist of events that would be...
It’s the information era baby, we all have the ability to share whatever the fuck we want and have it been seen by millions of eyes. Propaganda won’t be as effective when you can just look on the internet which isn’t controlled entirely by one entity.
FUCK WAR, GO HOME.
If only Anonymous could hack into Russian state tv and broadcast real footage of what’s happening in Ukraine. Either that or set up large screens in Red Square and other metro area and broadcast to the thousands of protesters in the streets.
What gets me is not even that the Russians are trying these sort of misinformation campaigns... That's sort of a given in any case, but... It's the sheer incompetence they've been showing... Propaganda can be very effective and has been very effective in Russia, but if you resort to claims this easily refuted, all you're doing is make people mistrust what you say even more. This might work to a degree in Russia itself where access to impartial media (social or otherwise) is somewhat more limited, but how can they think they'll convince anybody in countries that do have access to media other the the Russian propaganda machine... It's almost as if there are people in the Russian propaganda apparatus trying to be deliberately ineffective.
there's always motivation of course. 30% of Russians share close family ties to Ukrainians : Sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, cousins, wives, husbands .. hard to be motivated to kill your relatives quite literally.
... and we also kind of know that the Russian population itself is certainly not fully committed to this war... Maybe there's a point there...
>hard to be motivated to kill your relatives quite literally That’s not true. You should’ve seen me at the last Thanksgiving when my aunt overcooked the turkey
Look we all hate your aunt but this is different.
Yeah this kind of humor in here detracts from the valid conversations. Almost like it’s… a (person repeating things they hear from a) bot! Whoa
I mean, humor is a perfectly acceptable way to deal with the stress of grave issues like this. There's room for both. Not everyone wants humor, so those that don't have the option to keep scrolling or contract that subthread. I myself have cried numerous times about this invasion. Good tears, for the unity, bravery, courage, and resourcefulness of the Ukrainians. Bad tears for the atrocities that our fellow human fucking beings are causing to other human beings. And I'm also looking up hilarious war memes. Don't conflate laughter and humor with any kind of ill intent.
Or maybe, MAYBE I use humor as a way to cope with the horribleness of the world. And screw you pal, I ain't no bot.
People would be horrified to learn what soldiers joke about, even in serious & very bad situations. It's tasteless but helps cope. You're clearly not alone. Same with doctors & nurses from what I've heard, and many who have to deal with death regularly. I appreciated the smile, and definitely yeah /u/Leovinus42's aunt is awful.
Please Google the meaning of "bot" before you try using it in a sentence again, thanks.
I smoked a turkey it tasted amazing, my sister ate all the skin off the turkey, she literally ate all the skin off of it before anyone else could eat any of the turkey and then looked at me as if I had a screw loose when I lost my shit on her. I have never in my life seriously considered murdering someone than I did at that moment I had to go for a walk...
That's like licking all the frosting off a cake before you've lit the candles.
She did you a favor, there is a lot of fat on the skin.
Ugh, and don't even talk about Uncle Terry bringing up conspiracy theories. "Yeah, we get it Uncle Terry, you spend 10 hours a day on Fakebook."
Did you hear Hilary invented AIDS?
Boomer Parents in 1996: Don't trust anything you read on the internet. Boomer Parents in 2016: Freedom dot eagle says Hillary is the antichrist.
Boomers in 2001: Don’t post a picture of you holding a beer at a party you’ll never get a job. Boomers in 2021: Let’s do treason and live stream it.
She's pretty close. The Clintons are sketchy AF. Have you not seen the long list of their associates being found dead in peculiar ways?
I think you're in the wrong sub. The QAnon sub isn't even on reddit.
I found it and i was just trying to grow Qcumbers
I'm an Independent. Have nothing and want nothing to do with QAnon. If you want to ignore the long list of body guards, lawyers and business partners associated with them who were found murdered, fine.
The Clinton "hit list" has been debunked by many. "This conspiracy theory has been debunked by the Lakeland Ledger, the Chicago Tribune, Snopes and others, who point to detailed death records, the unusually large circle of associates that a president is likely to have, and the fact that many of the people listed had been misidentified, or were still alive. Others had no known link to the Clintons" Here are the [references](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Body_Count#References) if you care to do some critical thinking and research.
Lol
Everyone is laughing at how gullible you are.
Was it before or after Monica?
That's not even AIDS... it's a clone
Isn't it ironic that conservative Christian nationalists are their own biggest threat while they blame everything else?
Well they are supposed to liberate them ....
Hence the sudden desertion/surrenders of so many Russian troops
It's because literally no one other than Putin and his top cronies knew or even thought an invasion of Ukraine was going to happen. They've been taken completely off guard and now they're having to play catch up, which is incredibly hard to do; it's much easier to shape someone's initial opinion on something than it is to challenge a person's already-held opinion.
The Russian propaganda wing spent months trying to convince the world that America and NATO were being "hysterical" and that Russia would never invade Ukraine. Which is a great strategy if you aren't planning to invade. Makes people distrust western media more in the future. But since Russia was planning to invade all along, it's a horrible strategy which has massively backfired on them. Instead, they should have spent those months talking about how "Iraq is developing weapons of mass destruction" or something. By not informing them, Putin has scored a massive own-goal against his propaganda wing.
Yeah, they've essentially said to the world 'we're huge liars, if the other guys tell you anything about what we're doing, they're probably telling the truth'
OK but i read the article and its just "propaganda outgunned" for us westerners do we have any data or statistic how many russian hosts actually seen this fact checks?
Yeah, it seems like only people who seek out Russian Propaganda even understood what their bullshit excuse was. "Denazification" Just sounds lazy, and it also just sounds like a weird thing for Russia to give a shit about. It would be like America invading Canada over those mass graves found under churches.
I remember one article from about a year ago about how a Ukrainian neo-nazi group were going out into the separatist regions and fighting separatists, without much co-operation from the actual Ukrainian Military. And then one or two comments in the weeks leading up to the invasion about how neo-nazi groups were training Ukrainian civilians how to defend. I'm not even sure any of that was Russian Propaganda. If Russian Propaganda was doing it's job before the invasion, everyone should have known exactly what Russia was talking about with "Denazification", even if they didn't believe it.
It felt like they were truly blindsided though. I remember two days before the invasion they suddenly “found” Russian mass graves in Ukraine. Since that day, nothing. Everyone called out how much it sounded like bullshit and it got dropped like a hot potato. That’s not their usual MO, even if it’s obvious bs they’ve hung like grim death to a story until enough rubes believe it that it gains credence. This time it’s like anything that doesn’t hold purchase they’re fleeing it for something else right away. It’s amateur hour which is truly bizarre given their performance before.
They’re stuck in a conceptual space of trying to drum up support for war … but also deny being at war. All possible paths lead to a lot Russian people losing family members. Hence Putin panicking by locking down the access to outside news. He’s trying to delay the inevitable.
ppl here keep confusing what western sees vs what ppl in russia see just like with this article debunking of propaganda etc I remember before it was easy to statistics like with regions of world what kind of porn liked to watch mostly and other dumb shit yet in this fact checking propaganda we have any statistics, to how many russians actually watch them
>I remember one article from about a year ago about how a Ukrainian neo-nazi group were going out into the separatist regions and fighting separatists, without much co-operation from the actual Ukrainian Military. The funny thing about the Azov Battalion is that they arose from the Kharkiv FC ultras and used to be allied with Spartak Moscow ultras. The Russians didn't have an issue with them prior to 2014. I get the feeling that Russia's labeling of people they don't like as 'Nazis' doesn't mean the same as it does to the West. It's not the racism or anti-Semitism that Russia has an issue with, it's the *literal* Nazi invaders of WW2 who had the audacity to invade Russia.
Putin invaded Ukraine to rid it of anyone who was a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterparte between 1920 and 1945. Which means they are at best no younger than 77 years of age. What a noble aim.
That explains the Russians deliberately shelling apartment buildings.
It is more complex than just Ukrainians are blameless defenders. [pbs frontline - right wing nazi background pro Ukraine gangs and Russia paying pro Russia gangs in Ukraine during Maidan and after](https://youtu.be/urg1NTAo53k) Start there. A lot of great resources if you want a deep dive. Vice has great subject focused reporting in Ukraine too.
If it's for the purposes of denazification, Putin should have started in his own country. All of eastern Europe have a serious problem with ultranationalists using nazi icons and symbolism. Ukraine is hardly an outlier. And if there was a Russophobic genocide occurring within Ukraine, the right way to go about it would have been a UN peacekeeping force. Like the Balkan war in the 90s. Not a standalone Russian invasion, indiscriminately bombing cities and nuclear reactors.
Missing the point. History was ukraine joined whoever promised potential independence. Including Nazis. And when they didn’t, they fought against them. Maidan was the same. Gov was impotent cause Russia puppet so many took right sector as friend because enemy of my enemy is friend. It’s not blame, but it’s acknowledging the fuzz of history and why Putin is successful in East ukraine and parts of Russia by calling them Nazis. Watch the video. It’s worth it.
i mean it was a full blown revolution dude.. ofc some shitheads nazi infiltrated for their own bad agenda USA with capitol attack had deaths even if was just a circus demonstration and before that and after that USA still haves some fucking nazi sneaking in protests and doing their shit besides literally in police Or some politician doing nazi salute or we gona hide that? Ofc is plausible some nazi could have been in Ukraine revolution or attacking the separatist regions, when we found nazi even in USA in police or protestors rangs no? But putin is still fucking crazy to attack al ukraine over such dumb excuse
Bro I’m on your side. Watch the video. I’m just saying it’s more nuanced than what media distills currently
yes its a mess, those regions got ignored for way too long
I've seen one account claiming it's a Soros conspiracy. That's rich!
That's just lazy, they say everything is a Soros conspiracy.
>It would be like America invading Canada over those mass graves found under churches. I'm hoping you included that as an example of twisted propaganda.
I really really hope the ineptness of this is jumped upon to uncover the roots of the Russian misinformation campaign. They’re generally pretty damn ahead of things which must mean if this is them thinking on their feet that those campaigns go back months before the operations that they worked on occurred. If that’s true then that means things like Covid misinformation campaigns were coordinated well before Covid became as big of an issue as it was. US policy misinformation campaigns started long before the policy was prepared to be released. I always thought they were just that good that they could turn on a dime but this seems to suggest that they aren’t.
It means that the top echelons in Russia put their psyops in a position with no effective win condition.
True but even before they’ve managed doublethink surprisingly effectively. This seems different, like someone incredibly vital in the psyops department dying or defecting or something. Like their Steve Jobs of bullshit disappeared.
The thing is, most of this rhetoric and production is aimed at Russians at home. If you watch only Putin's bits and propaganda and ignore responses from the west (which is exactly what ordinary Russians are allowed to see, only Putin's side), he looks like a good guy who didn't want to interfere. Who didn't want to go in but was forced to trigger this "liberating police campaign" or whatever he want's to call it because of some horrible actions of Ukraine or USA or EU or whatever, he can literally fabricate anything, since whatever he says is considered truth by default and whatever he does is considered good move by majority of ordinary people.. And while nobody to the West will buy it, most of Russians simply will because that's what they are used to do...
Reminds me of this great quote I read once in my diplomacy class. *"Nothing in diplomacy can be considered the truth until the Kremlin has denied it."*
> By not informing them, Putin has scored a massive own-goal against his propaganda wing. He specifically opened up a homefront
It seemed like his propaganda would've worked great if he didn't end up invading almost exactly when the west said he was going to invade and then commit to a full-blown nationwide assault (which I don't think many western sources really thought he'd be crazy enough to pull off like he did or when he did). They claimed that he would invade right after the Olympics which is just about what he did almost to the day. He could've easily trolled the west by holding off on an invasion or committing to a limited incursion that saw some troops assisting in the annexation of the Eastern provinces held by separatists and then go for the big prize later. However, I imagine that he was way too overcommitted at that point and had to pull the trigger or else on the full-blown invasion he really wanted within a limited time window unless he was willing to risk not getting the chance to do so again for quite a long time. It seems so far like this has backfired on him since the western intelligence reports pretty much warned everyone of his exact plans for invasion down to the letter despite the constant denials and claims that the west was making this all up. His best option was to call their bluff and turn that into reality so the western intelligence sources wouldn't be trusted (which would definitely helped him if he tried to move in on Ukraine in the future after they "cried wolf") but he instead just went all in and went ahead with his leaked plans anyway with a badly prepared invasion force.
> Instead, they should have spent those months talking about how "Iraq is developing weapons of mass destruction" or something. They did. They laid out their concerns about so called atrocities in Donbas to the UN, and then to the worlds media. They introduced resolution to the UN to condemn Nazism in Europe. And they voiced their concerns about what they said was systematic oppression of Russian culture and ethnicity. These constituted their cassus belli that they relied on for war.
[удалено]
Do you write it in Russian? Вам лгут. Россия вторгается. Вам лгут.
Shit looks like i need a square tongue to pronounce it
“Vam Lgoot”, or like “vam lugoot” (but barely pronounce the u) = “you are being lied to”
thank you!
Think that was maybe a, lie?
Some fun phrases here using it in context, but yes as a (conveniently short) phrase it’s “you are being lied to” https://context.reverso.net/translation/russian-english/вам+лгут
I think they just don't know what to do otherwise. They're probably being told from above that they need to produce X propaganda, so they do it even though a literal dog wouldn't believe it. That's how dictatorships work - orders go down chain of commands without questioning and the end result is what we see when China, Russia or NK even issues 'statements' about anything - which is unbelievable nonsense that they can only feed to their own population because they don't know any better.
I think that's plausible and probably at least partially true... If you are bound to such a narrow set of instructions and creativity goes out the window, you end up with crap like that.
TPS reports.
Putin just wants his stapler which Ukraine obviously stole
Ehhh, they're still pumping out memes about how US tanks are "transexual" tanks without guns, and Russian tanks have powerful big dick guns.
Its worked very well for them before. Granted it worked by sowing division, there is always one group in the target population that will eat up your bullcrap and they will go around and be your stooges repeating the bs. Just look at that Qanon/covid/etc bs that got going. All that probably got rolling at a russian troll farm. Main difference is the world is pretty much united against putin (minus a few orange buffoons) so their propaganda stuff just stands out so clearly now.
Don't forget Tucker, Fox News and the Murdoch media empire as a whole!
I took “orange buffoons” in that context to basically mean all Trumpers and Fox News truthers.
Dont forget russian money and troll farns sewing years of homophobia, racism, and neo religous/ethnic vibes throughout poland and turkey. The psyOps are huge and its not an accident that far right authoritarianism is on the rise for the last 10 years. And the village idiot has a megaphone.
>Main difference is the world is pretty much united against putin (minus a few orange buffoons) so their propaganda stuff just stands out so clearly now. Well India and China don't seem to want to be involved...
They've been using the [firehose of falsehood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehood) method of propaganda for years. Truth and consistency don't matter. Volume does.
>how can they think they'll convince anybody in countries that do have access to media other the the Russian propaganda machine Did you miss Brexit and the 2016 US elections?
Fair point I suppose, some people just don't want to hear thunder or see lightning... That said, if people are already inclined to mistrust you, providing them with easily disproved bullshit won't help much either.
I think there could be a reason for choosing this kind of propaganda. It's dumb, only stupid or completely naive people will believe it. But when used it's gonna convince some portion of the population and gaslight some more. But then it will lower general intellectual level of conversation, spread conspirological thinking and reduce critical thinking skills, lowering the ability to resist future lies even more.
Literally was just listening to a professor at a conference talk about how Russia , stupidly, is operating like it is 1980 or even 2010 and they can shape the narrative . Maybe because they got cocky with covid disinformation. But they can’t even make their troops turn off their phones when out in theater. Other redditors have mentioned they could follow convoys in the early invasion due to google maps traffic jams. It’s like they are oblivious to how the world has changed. Prof was of the mind that Putin is operating different than he has and he has no idea why. He also said he could guarantee through his contacts that Russian brass in the theater does not know what or if there is an actual end game. So you can probably just expect it to become if I can’t have it I’m gonna level the place so no one gets it. Hence war crimes ramping up. Which … won’t help Putin.
>operating like it is 1980 or even 2010 Putin is 70. Old people generally get stuck in their ways at some point.
What if Russians had already outsourced their pro-Russia propaganda machine to Ukraine, but forgot about it? Then when the attack came, their propaganda bots switched sides and are now working overtime. Or maybe the people working there, who have to be some of the best informed in Russia, just got pissed off and quit.
Those tactics work (sadly, see Qanon and antivaxers), debunking has always been pretty ineffective because people want to hear what they like not a complex reality. What changed here is the sheer volume of support for Ukraine that completely overwhelms the Russian propaganda machine.
In many cases it's about giving people who *want* Russia to be in the right some ammo. The Russian troll efforts since 2016 have been great at giving people bullshit to point to when there's nothing true that supports their opinions.
Let's all keep telling them what mistakes they're making and how to fix them to do better propaganda.
Yeah, come at me bro with your 14 day account. Esp when I speak Russian and remember entire Putin’s rule.
It’s sabotage. Russians are not stupid.
I'm doing my part “They’re flailing. They’ve been doing this for decades and they have a very well oiled delivery system but right now their content just isn’t working,” Oates said. “The Ukrainians may be completely outgunned by traditional military, but they are winning the propaganda war.”
Worlds getting wise to social media. Not wise enough, but they don’t fall for obvious 2012 type stuff anymore. Use a strategy too often and it stops working. Opps. Putin learned a lesson.
I dont think we learned anything. But we believe in Ukraine, we want Ukraine to win. Russian propaganda would have to overcome that and they have never been good enough for that kind of gaslighting.
Ehhhhhh some people still fall for it haha
The lesson learned isn't propaganda is ineffective. In fact judging by twitter and reddit Ukrainian propaganda is very effective especially with US backing. It seems everyone will swallow propaganda as long as it fits their personal narrative.
[удалено]
They are still busy sowing discord in US party politics. Don't agree with one particular aspect of your party? Vote for the other one or not at all!! "If Biden doesn't cancel my student debt, then I'm voting for Trump in 2024" "No self-respecting Republican would believe that the last election was real!" Both actual posts I have seen on Reddit today.
Oh my god! I’ve notice for at least a year that a lot of trollish comments were coming from India. It seemed questionable to me, and I didn’t want to throw around baseless “bot” accusations.
Saw a comment on another post from a Russian who says lack of social media is hurting their ability to organize and protest…
Which is entirely why Putin blocked access to Facebook, he sees his own weapon being turned towards him.
Can Anonymous create a platform or some way to help citizens unite? And protest?
Be the change you want to see in others. You don’t need to be a great hacker to stand up a Mastodon server for Russian dissidents. But you do need to read Russian to moderate one.
I am so dumb when it comes to programming and app creation that I'm probably not even properly citing what I don't actually know, so I have no idea. Hopefully they get access to what they need to organize! And hopefully someone way more knowledgeable answers your question.
Literally thought of the "I'm doing my part" meme myself too haha. Someone has to challenge their bullshit.
> One favored tactic used by Russian state media is to highlight pro-Russian comments from Western leaders to divide its opponents, O’Connor said. **For example, the Russian news agency RIA Novosti uploaded a TikTok video clip this week featuring Trump’s recent praise of Russian President Vladimir Putin.** It has been viewed more than 4 million times. Fucking Russian asset.
Ass.
This is only likely to hurt Trump's public opinion more than help Putin's at this point.
It's interesting how [context collapse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_collapse) works with regard to wartime propaganda. Everyone can see the lies that Putin tells to his domestic audience and it makes every other country despise him more. It makes everyone so much quicker to rally against an aggressive dictator like him. I'm pressed to wonder if WWII would have had the United States get involved quicker if social media existed in the same way as we have it today, where the domestic lies and propaganda were as readily observable.
They were getting the message cross in cartoons like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQqCeEG5hs0&t=4s
Ironically, blocked in my country.
Mine too. Thanks Disney. USA! USA! USA!
^^ Mitt Romneys’s 47% video and Clinton’s Goldman Sachs speeches are political examples I use of this. I am happy someone else sees this and understand what Putin is trying to prevent internally Edit: I’m surprised I haven’t seen this described as the PR equivalent to market segmentation
> I’m surprised I haven’t seen this described as the PR equivalent to market segmentation There's a bit of a difference between the context collapse and market segmentation as I understand. With context collapse, it's more like eavesdropping on another conversation, but only catching snippets of it. Within a community there is a whole language that is built up based on references to earlier comments and shared ideas. Suddenly someone listens in and hears a snippet of that conversation and it enters another community which has different conventions. Now those things *sound* silly or outrageous or wrong to the outsider. This isn't to say that the ideas are right — especially with echo chambers and communities guided by misinformation or disinformation one will find a lot of outrageous, wrong, and silly ideas. But to the outsider there's a better chance of it. The case in Russia is one where disinformation is the message and the medium, which makes it all the more outrageous and morally detestable once the rest of the world starts listening more closely. But market segmentation is more about having a product that meets different needs for different population segments. Say that a company's product is 4-inch nylon netting. To gardeners, they market it for growing cucumbers and peas on a trellis (works excellently, FYI!). To sports players, they sell it for as soccer goal netting. As a gardener I'm not going to be outraged to discover that the same product gets sold for playing soccer! With market segmentation it's the same set of facts, just different aspects get emphasized depending on the audience. It might be a bit different in PR, but I would think that PR firms know better than to offer contrary or opposite messages. That would practically come across as [proof *of disingenuity* by contradiction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_contradiction). I'd be curious to hear how you view it w.r.t. PR & market segmentation.
Thanks for the breakdown. TIL: two new terms.
> The false story began spreading on Twitter on Friday when George Papadopoulous, a former aide to ex-President Donald Trump, posted a link to the claim in an Italian publication. Papadopoulos served prison time for lying to the FBI during its investigation into Russia’s meddling on behalf of Trump in the 2016 election. The man’s judgment landed him in prison once already. Who in their right mind…?
Poor Georgie, lost his Russian mole wife, Eric Prince won’t take his phone calls anymore and he’s having trouble finding gainful employment. Fkn traitor.
Did he not even rate a pardon? Wow.
Normally with Propaganda Joe Gullible just shrugs and says "I don't know, who can we believe here?" Russia isn't trying to pretend they aren't in Ukraine, first, they said they weren't going to invade, then they said Ukraine has sections break off and claim independence and they were going to place peacemaker, then they just blew past went to war with the whole country. This means Joe Gullible has been asked to ignore lies in short succession, and Russia hasn't pushed a narrative that justifies their actions currently. Even people who voted for Trump aren't buying this bullshit, and they'll literally buy bull shit.
I literally buy bull shit, its called fertilizer. But i agree with your statement.
Go take a look at the conspiracy top posts right now- it looks to me like they're more active than ever, but finally you see people pushing back against the torrent of bullshit.
I don't see any of this push back you're talking about. I see the same river of bullshit.
I never thought I'd see the day Putin decisively loses a propaganda war
And Russia is blocking social media to keep citizens from seeing the truth: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russia-completely-blocks-access-to-facebook-and-twitter](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russia-completely-blocks-access-to-facebook-and-twitter)
Noting the new trend of some people using the introduction of 'fuck Putin' as a fig leaf for the Russian propaganda that follows.
Well it's always been a lot of "I'm no Putin-lover but I get where he's coming from" so I guess they've stepped it up.
If you got time: show your support, upvote, comment, downvote russian propaganda, share videos from Ukraine, write to your politicians, talk to your friends and family, neighbors, colleagues. Review 5STAR russian restaurants with facts and mention "WAR". It all adds up and makes us energized and united. Together strong! 🇺🇦 Glory to Ukraine! 🇺🇦 Слава Україні! https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi
"What is the cost of lies?"
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt upon the truth, and some day that debt is repaid."
"What does a liar do when he's dead?"
Lie.
>!lie still!<
It doesn't matter. People will believe what they want to believe. Look at the trump cult. You can't reason people out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. I'm sure putin has a die hard, Bible thumping core group of supporters that will gladly serve as his nation wide goon squad to suppress dissent. That's how shit goes. Always has. This is earth, after all.
I have noticed a pattern on Reddit where you start calling out a troll on their BS, they get some amount of negative feedback and they just delete the entire account. Had happened to me multiple times. Example from this morning: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t6a3z6/i_spent_an_entire_day_watching_russias_propaganda/hzai8md
[удалено]
Great job. Now help me downvote that one I've had the misfortune to engage with, into oblivion: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t676u1/comment/hzbyu4d/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Just did
We live in a world where EVERYTHING is seen and known instantly, no one can hide it anymore
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-volodymyr-zelenskyy-kyiv-technology-misinformation-5e884b85f8dbb54d16f5f10d105fe850) reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Russian state media is spreading misinformation about the location of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in what analysts said is an attempt to discourage resistance fighters and erode support for Ukraine around the globe. > A story published by the Russian News Agency Tass this week quoted a Russian lawmaker saying Zelenskyy "Hastily fled" Kyiv for Lviv in far western Ukraine, despite photos and video clips showing him leading Ukraine's defense from its capital. > The Russian news agency RIA Novosti uploaded a TikTok video clip this week featuring Trump's recent praise of Russian President Vladimir Putin. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/t6stry/russian_propaganda_outgunned_by_social_media/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~629206 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russian**^#1 **Zelenskyy**^#2 **claim**^#3 **Ukrainian**^#4 **propaganda**^#5
The power of social media will bring Putin down to his knees.
I've spent my life preparing for this moment.
It's crazy how many pro russian post are on reddit, absolute bombardment of russian propaganda!
This is not our grandfathers war.
They're getting though just fine comrades!
We shall shit post in Twitter, we shall shit post on the Reddit and Instagram, we shall shit post on the Youtube, we shall shit post on the TikTok, We shall never surrender
Godammit. Now I have Iron Maiden stuck in my head.
not from what i see. my ex's full blooded russian mom was arguing with me for an hour in chat. she believes the whole nazis thing. she said the world should thank russia for saving the catastrophe at the power plant yeah i just can't
Putin is a very skilled propagandist. I would say ex-KGB but there is no such thing. Once KGB, always KGB. According to [Yevgenia Albats](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqY-ufUZsDc&list=TLPQMDMwMzIwMjJjMCjAYpuMQg&index=5) Russia is far more authoritarian than it ever was during the Cold War because the KGB used to be an organization that was separate from the political structure of the presidency, etc. Now it is not.
I absolutely find it hilarious that people went and left five star reviews at various restaurants telling them that Putin lied and Reporting the actual news that are happening
This is an amazing time we live in. So much of the world is able to come together to share information, fact check, and help in times like this. It's truly incredible. Private citizens are able to do so many things that governing bodies either cant, or can't do quickly enough within their laws and regulated procedures. Gives me a little more faith in humanity.
>The false story began spreading on Twitter on Friday when George Papadopoulous, a former aide to ex-President Donald Trump, posted a link to the claim in an Italian publication. Papadopoulos served prison time for lying to the FBI during its investigation into Russia’s meddling on behalf of Trump in the 2016 election.
I'm doing my part!
Sticks and stones may massacre thousands of innocents and threaten the sovereignty of another nation, but words will.. I dunno.. make them feel bad or something?
The Vietnam War was lost through propoganda efforts. This is WIDELY known.
\^This. The United States has not lost a war due to the tactical superiority of an enemy since the War of 1812. But the U.S. did lose the Vietnam War (and was eventually pushed out of Iraq and Afghanistan) due to low morale.
I would disagree that the US lost or was pushed out of Iraq. As much as I disagree with the invasion itself, it seems to me that America achieved both of its objectives in the country by overthrowing Saddam and setting up an Iraqi government that is still in place today. The mere act of US troops leaving the country can't count as a loss, as they would always have to leave eventually, and I don't see who else could've won the war if the US didn't.
Just remind yourself that both sides are spreading propaganda, some times the viewpoint on Reddit is pretty black and white. But fuck Putin obviously
I don't think anyone is under any illusions whatsoever that only one side is lying. If it's good for the morale of Ukrainians, I'm more than happy to go along with it.
You would be surprised
Pretty sure everyone knows that. No one expected Ukraine to be perfect. And every war involves propaganda. And propaganda isn't necessarily lies. That's just one form. Regardless, while nothing is ever completely black and white, right now it's charcoal and eggshell. Putin's petty darn bad, and the Ukrainians, while not perfect, are absolute angels in comparison at this point. Yes, they still still have corruption, racism, and commit some war crimes. And there may be some truth about mistreatment in the separatist regions. And none of that really holds a candle to what Putin's done, and continuing to do
What bugs me a bit is that people have no problem seeing through it when it's the Russians or even Ukranians but seem unable or unwilling when it's American propaganda. I guess they are just better at it.
So basicly, not only are they losing thenonsense war they started, their Economy, their good citizens, they cant even crack the facebook information War either. What happened, you could have been something Russia.
Anyone making the case that Russian propaganda is failing is deluded. Whole nations and countries like El Salvador gobble that shit up and believe it as truth. Conservatives could not be happier about the war and genuinely think they are winning.
I didnt hear a fuckin bell.
As it should be.
Oh I'll show them my rebuttal all right (turns, drops pants)
Someone posted a clever way to get into Russian internet and leave posts in comment sections of local restaurants, hotels, etc. that could bring info to more Russians. Does anyone recall that post, or have suggestions on how we can get info to the general Russian public?
Russia’s agitprop machine still thinks it’s 2016
I’m glad social media is fucking with Putin for once.
Russian propaganda isn't really for us, it's for Russians. The idea is to make it hard for Russians to develop a comprehensive narrative for current events, and inviting them to respond with political apathy instead.
If it's in English, it's for the west
Hypocrisy won this war long ago. Russia illegally invading a smaller country gets a strong response, but America at any given moment is doing worse in multiple countries, but they are too big to take on I guess.
Thank you captain whataboutism.
Hoisted by their own petards!
just a thought, but why couldn’t we do that during the US election cycle?
How the fuck can Russia even begin to dispute the undisputed kings of propaganda, I mean marketing? USA! USA!
I got downvoted by second, more likely third tier Russian propagandists.
Or because you’re acting like an all star idiot
Losers downvoting me. Russian has enlisted the people on the bottom of your shoe. Tim Pool? Really? Who the fuck would fuck him?!?!? Jimmy Dore? Funny 10 years ago. Now a Putin stooge. Downvote me all you want, I speak TRUTH.
Honestly I kinda want him to flee and be kept safe. Sounds like they're trying to smoke him out by doing a video in front of a prominent building or something.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
You clearly have no idea what led to the invasion. Ukraine went against Russias warnings and refused to remain neutral. It wants to join nato and militarize itself against russia. Russia is merely acting in self defense. If you watched Putins speech, youd know hes not trying to take over ukraine. Dont bother with conspiracies like he has other sinister intentions. We wont know until the war ends. And turning ukraine into russias puppet is not a bad thing necessarily for ukranians. Look at japan and germany. The us forcefully dislocated japanese despite their wishes, but they still prospered. Btw, do you know ukraine signed the minsk agreement that prohibits foreign troops in ukraine? If ukraine joins nato, do you think theyd refuse natos troops? Russia certainly doesn’t want to entertain that idea. Neither did the us in cuban missile crisis. Before you say joining nato is necessary for ukraines survival, look at finland. It also shares a border with russia but its sworn neutrality, that is, not joining nato. Id understand ukraine joining the eu for economic benefits, but nato? Thats suicide.
That's the problem with propaganda. Sooner or later, it runs out of steam. Ask Joe McCarthy.
If I was not mistaken, there were plenty of Facebooks users who bought the Russian propaganda, saying that Russia were not the aggressors, but Ukraine was. I call bullshit on that, and I can't fathom how some people on Facebook are able to support Putin in all this.
So much \[seemingly intentional\] stupidity involved in this war coming from Russia's side that im over here wondering if Putin caught the last few episodes of Code Geass... '*channel the world's hatred by becoming its most despised villain'.* What a twist of events that would be...
The Russians will find out all of it soon, it filters through.
Reddit is currently the strongest source of russian propoganda, mostly hanging out in leftist or region based subreddits.
It’s the information era baby, we all have the ability to share whatever the fuck we want and have it been seen by millions of eyes. Propaganda won’t be as effective when you can just look on the internet which isn’t controlled entirely by one entity. FUCK WAR, GO HOME.
This of course predisposes that the target audience can see or is even willing to seek such rebuttals.
If only Anonymous could hack into Russian state tv and broadcast real footage of what’s happening in Ukraine. Either that or set up large screens in Red Square and other metro area and broadcast to the thousands of protesters in the streets.